Fools Who Wrangle Over Flesh

[Luckysingh]

unbiasedview ji mentioned the non meat sources for all nutrients and supplements but this is not always the case.
2 reasons- 1stly we live in an age where we have fast paced lifestyles that are high in nutritional demands. Wether one is doing 12-14hr work shifts or a couple of days of intensive 2hr sessions at the gym- all this gives rise to increased demands.
2ndly- the natural sources or veg and plants cannot always supply sufficient supplies as they are basically not as natural, due to artificial growth and fertilisers...etc..etc..
-Both reasons give reasons to supplement our increased demands.

Taking creatine as Randip ji mentions above. This is a a very valid example of an amino acid that our kidneys and liver produce naturally. It is required in the cycle of energy utilsation by our muscles and it has an added benefit of increasing muscle mass.
Having a few intensive sessions at the gym is going to require more than our body produces and this is available in many forms ie... shakes, drinks, choc bars, soluble powders., tabs...etc...etc..So many to choose from. HOWEVER, all of these come with cautions and warnings mostly due to the other chemicals that they are bound with in these formulas.-WHAT DOES ONE TAKE SAFELY ??
Not that easy to answer by anyone, ask a specialist or an expert and they will tell you the best way is the most natural obtainable- thus RED MEAT- they will say.
That's way I said this was a valid example and there are many many more.

So I don't think Randip ji is going off topic here, but it's actually another valid eye opener that most experts would agree with.

Thanks
Lucky Singh

 

[BaljinderS]

I have personally tried using supplements and no meat, this simply does not work. I see others in the gym who are veggies, they simply cannot compete with the non-veggies. I have ready many articles, claiming that you can get all you need from vegetables, nuts etc etc. I have personally tried and find them to be not true.

Your protein and other vitamins should not just come from meat, they should be supplemented with vegetables,fruits and nuts. Meat is acidic and its not good to just eat for protein.

 

[TigerStyleZ]

I have personally tried using supplements and no meat, this simply does not work. I see others in the gym who are veggies, they simply cannot compete with the non-veggies. I have ready many articles, claiming that you can get all you need from vegetables, nuts etc etc. I have personally tried and find them to be not true.

Your protein and other vitamins should not just come from meat, they should be supplemented with vegetables,fruits and nuts. Meat is acidic and its not good to just eat for protein.

Paji, sorry t´here I must renounce my training is very good without meat, and I know a few who only eat haver and protein 5 x times a day and they are bodybuilders!! they eat vegan!! So it is possible..
Where is the border to Canibalism(Kauda Raksh)?

But I have some questions: Why akal takht now decided that people cane at meat? Why not earlier, like in times of gurus...?
Why there is a forbade in Halal(kosher), this is against muslims, jews etc......?

 

[Gyani Jarnail Singh]

Halllal is forbidden to Sikhs not because its "Muslim".... ( Its NOT GREEN but red and bloody just as nay other meat ha ha )..BUT because Halall is SACRIFICIAL in Nature. The SIKH is follower of ONLY AKAL PURAKH and will NOT accept any Sacrificial food for any other diety/god/etc.

Thus the Bananas from a Hanuman mandir..the Bakra slaughtered by JHATKA in a KALI MANDIR..etc are BOTH OUT....even if the banana is Vegetarian..and bakra is JHATKA !! A SIKH CANNOT eat them both.....( Even if HINDU....not that the Bakra will be Bhagwa !!
Placed side by side the Hallal Lamb and the Kali mandir Lamb meat will be INDISTINGUISHABLE..Both will be red and bloody. BOTH Forbidden to a SIKH.

 

[jasbirkaleka]

Very well put Gyaniji.

 

[TigerStyleZ]

Thanks for the inwight gyqni ji but this was just a side question this answer is my as well. Main questions are why akal tkht now decided that we can eat meat why Not earoier like in times of our beloved gurus?
Second question is where is the border to canibalism? Example; i am making pakora (jhatka) of a human? It is jhatka so i can eat him if i have no food supplies(i dont want it is just a question) humans are very selfish

 

[unbiasedview]

Slightly off topic, but an amino acid essential for body building Creatine only exists in red meat, as well as large amounts of B12.

You can however supplement on this, but I don't this your body assimilates as well unatural products.

http://www.myfit.ca/foods_high_in_creatine.asp

randeep ji creatine is not an amino acid,its synthesised from amino acids in body!muscles use there food as creatine and glucose!

 

[unbiasedview]

unbiasedview ji mentioned the non meat sources for all nutrients and supplements but this is not always the case.
2 reasons- 1stly we live in an age where we have fast paced lifestyles that are high in nutritional demands. Wether one is doing 12-14hr work shifts or a couple of days of intensive 2hr sessions at the gym- all this gives rise to increased demands.
2ndly- the natural sources or veg and plants cannot always supply sufficient supplies as they are basically not as natural, due to artificial growth and fertilisers...etc..etc..
-Both reasons give reasons to supplement our increased demands.

Taking creatine as Randip ji mentions above. This is a a very valid example of an amino acid that our kidneys and liver produce naturally. It is required in the cycle of energy utilsation by our muscles and it has an added benefit of increasing muscle mass.
Having a few intensive sessions at the gym is going to require more than our body produces and this is available in many forms ie... shakes, drinks, choc bars, soluble powders., tabs...etc...etc..So many to choose from. HOWEVER, all of these come with cautions and warnings mostly due to the other chemicals that they are bound with in these formulas.-WHAT DOES ONE TAKE SAFELY ??
Not that easy to answer by anyone, ask a specialist or an expert and they will tell you the best way is the most natural obtainable- thus RED MEAT- they will say.
That's way I said this was a valid example and there are many many more.

So I don't think Randip ji is going off topic here, but it's actually another valid eye opener that most experts would agree with.

Thanks
Lucky Singh

well in my argument i was trying to suggest something which is very different from what you people are trying to point out.randeep ji understood it thats why while making his point about creatine he started with line"slightly off topic" because he knew the gist of my writing was something more deep than my last comment about fatty acids and amino acids !my argument is not aimed to convince people to eat or not to eat.i just pointed out i dont eat flesh because of this reason!gurujis comments on eating and not eating meat were always directed towards spiritual aspects and not about nutrient aspect of it..my reasoning behind me not eating meat had spiritual apprehensions as its basis.

 

[unbiasedview]

well in my argument i was trying to suggest something which is very different from what you people are trying to point out.randeep ji understood it thats why while making his point about creatine he started with line"slightly off topic" because he knew the gist of my writing was something more deep than my last comment about fatty acids and amino acids !my argument is not aimed to convince people to eat or not to eat.i just pointed out i dont eat flesh because of this reason!gurujis comments on eating and not eating meat were always directed towards spiritual aspects and not about nutrient aspect of it..my reasoning behind me not eating meat had spiritual apprehensions as its basis.

i can tell you,the meat you eat is more chemical ridden than the vegetables!

 

[Randip Singh]

randeep ji creatine is not an amino acid,its synthesised from amino acids in body!muscles use there food as creatine and glucose!

It comes from meat in essence:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Creatine

 

[Randip Singh]

i can tell you,the meat you eat is more chemical ridden than the vegetables!

Well I could tell you the world is flat, but that isn't true either.

It depends where you source food from. Grass fed, Organic etc.

Best is to grow, rear yourself.

 

[Randip Singh]

Paji, sorry t´here I must renounce my training is very good without meat, and I know a few who only eat haver and protein 5 x times a day and they are bodybuilders!! they eat vegan!! So it is possible..
Where is the border to Canibalism(Kauda Raksh)?

But I have some questions: Why akal takht now decided that people cane at meat? Why not earlier, like in times of gurus...?
Why there is a forbade in Halal(kosher), this is against muslims, jews etc......?

who says Guru's forbade meat? Clearly not true. There are eye witness accounts of the Guru's Sikh's being voracious hunters and meat eaters.

EYE WITNESS ACCOUNTS OF EUROPEAN TRAVELLERS OF SIKH DIET DURING THE 18TH AND 19TH CENTURY

There are a number of eyewitness accounts from European travellers as to the eating habits of Sikhs. Although there is no prohibition on Sikhs for eating beef, it is clear that Sikhs as a mark of respect for their Hindu neighbours did not partake in eating beef:

The Seiks receive Proselytes of almost every Cast, a point in which they differ most materially from the Hindoos. To initiate Mohammedans into their mysteries, they prepare a Dish of Hogs legs, which the Converts are obliged to partake of, previous to admission............They are not prohibited the use of Animal food of any kind, excepting Beef, which they are rigidly scrupulous in abstaining from.
John Griffiths writes in February 17th 1794



The seiks are remarkably fond of the flesh of the jungle hog, which they kill in chase: this food is allowable by their law. They likewise eat of mutton and fish; but these being unlawful the Brahmins will not partake, leaving those who chose to transgress their institutes to answer for themselves.
William Francklin in his writing about Mr George Thomas 1805


It is clear from the above that there is a clear distinction between Sikhs (meat eaters), and those who chose to follow Brahmanical practices (Vegetarians), however there appears to be no dispute over this issue as people are allowed to decide for themselves.
The following is an Extract from an officer in the Bengal Army and is taken from the Asiatic Annual Register 1809:

Now become a Singh, he is a heterodox, and distinct from the Hindoos by whom he is considered an apostate. He is not restricted in his diet, but is allowed, by the tenets of his new religion, to devour whatever food his appetite may prompt, excepting beef.
Asiatic Annual Register 1809

 

[TigerStyleZ]

who says Guru's forbade meat? Clearly not true. There are eye witness accounts of the Guru's Sikh's being voracious hunters and meat eaters.

EYE WITNESS ACCOUNTS OF EUROPEAN TRAVELLERS OF SIKH DIET DURING THE 18TH AND 19TH CENTURY

There are a number of eyewitness accounts from European travellers as to the eating habits of Sikhs. Although there is no prohibition on Sikhs for eating beef, it is clear that Sikhs as a mark of respect for their Hindu neighbours did not partake in eating beef:

The Seiks receive Proselytes of almost every Cast, a point in which they differ most materially from the Hindoos. To initiate Mohammedans into their mysteries, they prepare a Dish of Hogs legs, which the Converts are obliged to partake of, previous to admission............They are not prohibited the use of Animal food of any kind, excepting Beef, which they are rigidly scrupulous in abstaining from.
John Griffiths writes in February 17th 1794



The seiks are remarkably fond of the flesh of the jungle hog, which they kill in chase: this food is allowable by their law. They likewise eat of mutton and fish; but these being unlawful the Brahmins will not partake, leaving those who chose to transgress their institutes to answer for themselves.
William Francklin in his writing about Mr George Thomas 1805


It is clear from the above that there is a clear distinction between Sikhs (meat eaters), and those who chose to follow Brahmanical practices (Vegetarians), however there appears to be no dispute over this issue as people are allowed to decide for themselves.
The following is an Extract from an officer in the Bengal Army and is taken from the Asiatic Annual Register 1809:

Now become a Singh, he is a heterodox, and distinct from the Hindoos by whom he is considered an apostate. He is not restricted in his diet, but is allowed, by the tenets of his new religion, to devour whatever food his appetite may prompt, excepting beef.
Asiatic Annual Register 1809

Paji, thanks for reply. I never said Sikhs can´t eat meat, I myself don´t believe in things like brahmatical practices etc.. I just wanted to know WHY Akal Takht NOW decided , that Sikhs can eat meat or not ? Why not earlier? Is it due to hugh influence of Hindoos? Or is it because, earlier we hadn´t such "problems" like this, that we need to make a "rule"? I want different views, and facts --- thanks
Second question:
Where is the border to Canibalism(exp: Kauda Raksh, who was a canibalist=?

 

[Randip Singh]

Paji, thanks for reply. I never said Sikhs can´t eat meat, I myself don´t believe in things like brahmatical practices etc.. I just wanted to know WHY Akal Takht NOW decided , that Sikhs can eat meat or not ? Why not earlier? Is it due to hugh influence of Hindoos? Or is it because, earlier we hadn´t such "problems" like this, that we need to make a "rule"? I want different views, and facts --- thanks
Second question:
Where is the border to Canibalism(exp: Kauda Raksh, who was a canibalist=?

This has been confirmed by the Akal Takht and our Guru's several times. I think evrtime the Panth starts getting split on this issue it gets reafirmed.

As for Cannabalism, why would we want to eat another human being? What purpose would it serve? How would it be different from eating an animal? Many questions.

 

[Scarlet Pimpernel]

In days before import your choices depend on location,you eat what is available around you,if you were born in a land locked desert you would not envisage eating fish,if you were an Eskimo you would not envisage eating lamb or chicken.

When one gives up a certain meat for ones Religion that is just to get the person used to adherence,it is the principle behind it that is being taught, namely that one has to comply with certain principles or behave with propriety ,simply some things we do, somethings we don't do, taught by simple day to day practice in diet,so first the easy stuff like Dietary Control,then the harder stuff like Self Control.
Now go enjoy your burger,but don't touch anyone elses burger!

 

[Gyani Jarnail Singh]

remember folks...Guru Ji wrote:..MAAS Maas kar MOORAKH jhaggrrey....He DID NOT WRITE:..SAAG SAAG kar moorakh jhaggrrey.....There is a significance to this.... whoever BRINGS up the MAAS thingy..FIRST..is a Mxxxxxxxxxx.???? Guru Ji said it..not me.

EAT what is HEALTHY...says GURU NANAK JI..whats so difficult to understand about that ?? If its a free range chicken/goat/lamb.......compared to a Pesticide/insecticde/urea loaded CARROT/SAAG/CABBAGE etc.....i think we all know which is "HEALTHY"...

:singhsippingcoffee: btw coffee is not "healthy" to SOME..not ALL...same thing...

 

[Ambarsaria]

Very well said brother Scarlet Pimpernel ji.

In days before import your choices depend on location,you eat what is available around you,if you were born in a land locked desert you would not envisage eating fish,if you were an Eskimo you would not envisage eat lamb or chicken.

When one gives up a certain meat for ones Religion that is just to get the person used to adherence,it is the principle behind it that is being taught, namely that one has to comply with certain principles or behave with propriety ,simply some things we do, somethings we don't do, taught by simple day to day practice in diet,so first the easy stuff like Dietary Control,then the harder stuff like Self Control.
Now go enjoy your burger,but don't touch anyone elses burger!

Let us apply it to a Dehra on the other side of Beas, Punjab. So called Vegetarian, Sikh persona, Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji degraders. Let us check the formula,

Food Control (no Egg no meat movement) ---> mind control (no Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji at the Dehra) ---> Flock is ready to be Ruled and Exploited :angryyoungsingh::angryyoungkaur:

Foolish Sikhs, don't wrangle as Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji and our Guru ji took you away from this darkness that others are pulling you back into! Don't dictate, use common sense for such simple dietary choices, there is nothing spiritual about it. Eat what goes with your body and keeps it healthy. Leave the marketing of Veg versus non-Veg to the stores and shops.

Sat Sri Akal.

 

[Scarlet Pimpernel]

Very well said brother Scarlet Pimpernel ji.

Sat Sri Akal.

Thank You Master

 

[Scarlet Pimpernel]

Originally Posted by Scarlet Pimpernel

When one gives up a certain meat for ones Religion that is just to get the person used to adherence,it is the principle behind it that is being taught, namely that one has to comply with certain principles or behave with propriety ,simply some things we do, somethings we don't do, taught by simple day to day practice in diet,so first the easy stuff like Dietary Control,then the harder stuff like Self Control.

Veer Ji
I'm not sure what dehra does but they should teach that the Adherence of Truth principle is what is important and not the mechanism by which we remember it.

Anyway I would give up meat in an instant for just one date with the bulgarian beauty from the Apprentice,so what merit would my meat giving up really have in my case,just about anyone can control themselves from some Pork chops or some Burgers but to avert ones minds eye from an enticing beauty is another thing altogether,

As our Guru said where are those beauties now seeing whom one would get no sleep,no one loses sleep over food choices ,let Sikhs control the 'hard' things,let others control the easy things.

 

[PunjabiEspada]

I'll make this short and sweet

I won't even try to debate you guys on the message that Bani has obviously delivered; since some people twist it to bend to their own beliefs and neither of us will bend to the other's opinion

I'll talk about minimizing suffering