Guru Arjan As Incarnation Of Waheguru?

[prakash.s.bagga]

ADI NANKI Ji,
I like your post which conveys a lot about the use of words from within SGGS.
You should also consider apoint that if there is already an appropriate word in Gurbaani for the Creator why we should not consider that word rather than make use of a word which isnot a content of Gurbaani.
You can verify yourself that in Gurbaani the Creator is being refered as GuR/Prabhu and further about 300 words {Out of many thousands} are found refering to the Creator.
This is for your information and consideration accordinly.
Prakash.S.Bagga

 

[Adi Nanaki]

Adi Nanaki ji there is no meditative intermediary or altered state needed to understand Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji. You need to read, understand the words and visualize that Guru ji is in front of you.

Sorry to differ.

Sat Sri Akal.

It is okay, dear one. I need not visualize Gurus before me. I breathe them and merge with them, as they want us to. It is how one Sikh was empowered to face 1000 of the enemy, which is what I must do when 1000 people contest my book on the deeper, yogic meaning of SGGS.

There are many ways to become one with the Gurus. In recitation of the Banis and singing Gurbani Kirtan, we repeat their words exactly as they spoke them in God consciousness. In so doing we recreate that vibration within ourselves. SGGS and Dasam Granth in phonetic script are the greatest gifts the Gurus gave us for this very reason.

 

[NinduP]

Whether it says Guru Arjan Dev Ji was an incarnation of waheguru, how does it help in your search?

You could say that every prophet or sage is an incarnation of waheguru.

Every person, place, thing is an incarnation of waheguru in physically manifest form.

Taking the original gurmukhi, which is mix of sanskrit and what have you, then converting it to english makes it take on an entirely different meaning. Even explanations an vichaars, they serve very little use when subjectivity is applied.

But my 2 cents are as follows:
When it says Guru Arjan is attached to the lords feet (or something similar), I would imagine that he is in samadhi and the distinction of his body-mind-soul has disappeared and all he sees is that he is waheguru and that is all there is underneath material reality.

Meditate, meditate, meditate.

2 cents..

 

[sachbol]

Ishna ji
Yes the Gurmukhi suggests that it is saying that Guru Arjan Dev ji is the incarnation of God/God himself. Mathura uses the word Avtar for Guru Arjan. Avtars are incarnations.

Now one person might reject this literal translation and advise to take it metaphorically like some sort of poetic praise. The other will take it word for word. (we will hear from more people soon) All perspectives point to towards the truth.

My suggestion would be to go beyond the words and try to feel what the word "incarnation" and the whole shabad is referring to. Meditate on the shabad.

Now, what other words can you use for that? (avoid thinking about that, post the words that immediately come through from meditation, and if no words arise that is fine too)

As per our Mool Mantar Wahiguru is Ajuni ie he never takes birth nor does he die.
Therefore it is wrong to say that any Guru was an Avtar of God.

 

[Ishna]

Sachbol ji

And that is exactly why I struggled with understanding the shabad as it says the opposite of what I understood to be true. The Gurbani says plainly that Guru Arjun was an Avtar of God.

When I read it on the screen at Gurdwara Sahib I was like "um, is this kirten actually from SGGS??". After responses through this thread, and some pondering, the case was made clear, as you will see from the posts earlier in the thread.

Gurbani is a curious thing, it has to use words (which are inadequate) to try to describe and explain something absolutely phenomenal. It's like trying to explain a taste to someone else, using only the other things you've tasted before as a reference point. None of them are going to accurately describe the taste (of the message within Gurbani), and the listener might mistake a regular foodstuff to be the taste described by the Gurmukh. "Well if he said it tastes like chicken chips, it must be chicken chips."

One has to taste the unique, sublime, sweet taste of Gurbani oneself before it makes any sense.

 

[Ambarsaria]

As per our Mool Mantar Wahiguru is Ajuni ie he never takes birth nor does he die.
Therefore it is wrong to say that any Guru was an Avtar of God.

Hence for Sikhism no subjugates of God in the name of Avatars or Directors of Avatars, period. Be they,

• Any of our Gurus
• Ram
• Krishna
• Vishnu
• Brahma
• Parvati
• Ganesh
• Hanuman
• Buddha
• Jesus
• and the list is un-ending

Any such names used in Gurbani are symbology to help people understand concepts and relationships with the creator.

Sat Sri Akal.

 

[Gyani Jarnail Singh]

YOU GOT IT ISHNA JI....Finally.cheerleadercheerleadercheerleadercheerleadercheerleader

 

[sachbol]

Hence for Sikhism no subjugates of God in the name of Avatars or Directors of Avatars, period. Be they,

• Any of our Gurus
• Ram
• Krishna
• Vishnu
• Brahma
• Parvati
• Ganesh
• Hanuman
• Buddha
• Jesus
• and the list is un-ending

Any such names used in Gurbani are symbology to help people understand concepts and relationships with the creator.

Sat Sri Akal.

Ambarsariaji thanx. it is the duty of every learned Sikh to share his knowledge with people like me who just know ABC of Gurbani and Sikh itihas. I am grateful to SPN, its moderators and Gyani saheban who show us the way. Like a common man I have thosands of doubts about my own religions. Personalities like you are there to clear our doubts.
Waheguru mahar karey. japposatnamwaheguru:

 

[sachbol]

There is very important point to understand in the message given by Bhagat Singh ji.
and that point is "Unborn and Born"
Definitely there is something that takes birth and there is other thing that does not take birth and this thing is Ajoonee.
These two are different things not like that the same thing is unborned and Borned as well.
e should try to grasp this point from the understanding of Gurbaani and the understanding of this is again related to the concept of GuRU and GuR.

Prakash.s.bagga

No we can not prove hat our Moolmantar is False. "AJOONI" is the truth. He does not take birth Nor does He die !

 

[prakash.s.bagga]

SACHBOL Ji,
The cocept of incarnation in Gurbani is not the one which is related to Birth.(This concept of incarnation by way of birth is an accepted in Hindu or other philosophies) . The concept of incarnation in Gurbani is related to complete transformation of the thought process at any stage of life thru Gurjoti.This is important to understand.

Prakash.S.Bagga

 

[sachbol]

Lot of confusion is created. Our Pracharaks make our Gurus Avtars of God.japposatnamwaheguru:

 

[prakash.s.bagga]

SACHBOL Ji,
You can see an old Hindi Movie "AVTAR" starring Rajesh Khanna/Shabana Azami to get the meaning of AVTAR..I think this may of great help to understand the Concept of AVTAR.
Prakash.S.Bagga

 

[sachbol]

Each Guru is Avtar but not Avtar of God. He is Avtar of Sikh Gurujapposatnamwaheguru:

 

[prakash.s.bagga]

SACHBOL Ji,
You are nearly correct.To be more correct ,Each Guroo is AVTAR of SABADu GuRoo.

Prakash.S.Bagga