Hair And General Sikh Philosophy Study

[BhagatSingh]

It has already been proven that a Sikh must keep hair. So please tell me what you are trying to prove here?

:rofl!!:
Sorry I guess I must have "disproved" it. :}:

 

[BhagatSingh]

Bhagat ji you called taking Amrit ceremony, Khande-di-pahul, a ritual, back this statement up with proof that it is a ritual. Actually don’t even attempt to because you will fail no matter what. You can spend your whole life trying to prove it is a ritual and you will still fail. But go ahead and give it a shot.

Definition of Ritual

• [SIZE=-1][SIZE=-1]
• any customary observance or practice
• of or relating to or characteristic of religious rituals; "ritual killing"
• the prescribed procedure for conducting religious ceremonies
• of or relating to or employed in social rites or rituals; "a ritual dance of Haiti"; "sedate little colonial tribe with its ritual tea parties"- Nadine Gordimer
• stereotyped behavior[/SIZE][/SIZE]

Lol that didn't take long. Amrit ceremony IS a ritual! [The ones in bold apply.]

Question: Read the Gurbani that I have posted below then tell me if one does not need the Guru.?

Well, if by Guru you mean God, then yes, without God we are nothing.
If by Guru you mean something other than God then no we don't.

 

[Archived_Member4]

Definition of Ritual

• [SIZE=-1][SIZE=-1]
• any customary observance or practice
• of or relating to or characteristic of religious rituals; "ritual killing"
• the prescribed procedure for conducting religious ceremonies
• of or relating to or employed in social rites or rituals; "a ritual dance of Haiti"; "sedate little colonial tribe with its ritual tea parties"- Nadine Gordimer
• stereotyped behavior[/SIZE][/SIZE]

Lol that didn't take long. Amrit ceremony IS a ritual!

All this is a definition of a ritual there was no fact presented or anything else. This is pure comedy man :rofl!!:

Well, if by Guru you mean God, then yes, without God we are nothing.
If by Guru you mean something other than God then no we don't.

Read Gurbani and its very clear if Sikhs need the Guru as Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji to be one with God. So answer the question after reading Gurbani, do we being Sikhs need the Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji to be one with God?

 

[Archived_Member4]

:rofl!!:
Sorry I guess I must have "disproved" it. :}:

So you disaprove of Sri Guru Gobind Singh Sahib ji's Hukam that Sikh must keep hair.

 

[BhagatSingh]

All this is a definition of a ritual there was no fact presented or anything else. This is pure comedy man :rofl!!:

Ya and I said the ones in bold apply to the amrit ceremony, which means amrit ceremony is a ritual.
Go get some rest; you need it.

 

[BhagatSingh]

So you disaprove of Sri Guru Gobind Singh Sahib ji's Hukam that Sikh must keep hair.

Get some rest...

 

[BhagatSingh]

do we being Sikhs need the Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji to be one with God?

no

 

[Archived_Member4]

Ya and I said the ones in bold apply to the amrit ceremony, which means amrit ceremony is a ritual.
Go get some rest; you need it.

Where's the proof that it applies to it? Just saying it applies does not mean it apply's to it. Then I can just say something and look up a definition and say it apply's to it. There my proof has been given the definition apply's to it but i cannot prove it. I have got my rest, I think you need some rest trying to prove something with a definition then adding it applies to it at the end :rofl!!::rofl!!:

 

[Archived_Member4]

Get some rest...

Do you accept Guru Gobind Singh Sahib ji's Hukam a Sikh must keep hair? its a simple question

Thank you Bhagat ji for the concern i am well rested

 

[Archived_Member4]

no

What an answer. Now please give me some proof

 

[BhagatSingh]

Where's the proof that it applies to it? Just saying it applies does not mean it apply's to it. Then I can just say something and look up a definition and say it apply's to it. There my proof has been given the definition apply's to it but i cannot prove it. I have got my rest, I think you need some rest trying to prove something with a definition then adding it applies to it at the end :rofl!!::rofl!!:

I will definitely need rest after trying to explain to you how amrit ceremony is a ritual.
Anyway, let's begin.
A ritual is
[SIZE=-1][SIZE=-1] - any customary observance or practice
- of or relating to or characteristic of religious rituals; "ritual killing"
- the prescribed procedure for conducting religious ceremonies
- of or relating to or employed in social rites or rituals; "a ritual dance of Haiti"; "sedate little colonial tribe with its ritual tea parties"- Nadine Gordimer
- stereotyped behavior
Agreed?

[/SIZE][/SIZE]Amrit ceremony is a customary practice. There is a prescribed procedure of how to make and serve amrit. Agreed?

Since amrit ceremony fits into that definition of a ritual, therefore we can call it a ritual.
Now that wasn't too hard to understand, was it? I tried explaining it fully.

 

[BhagatSingh]

Do you accept Guru Gobind Singh Sahib ji's Hukam a Sikh must keep hair? its a simple question

Thank you Bhagat ji for the concern i am well rested

No problem. I was serious though when I said "get rest". It's important if one is to think clearly.

About your question, I did explain that in post 53. Here:

Singh ji, Khalsa is a discipline, it is not to be confused with Sikhi. Sikhi is all about SGGS. No reahat maryada, no dasam Granth, no sarbloh granth, no <insert name of another granth here> granth, simply SGGS.

BTW your question is absurd. You are implying that Guru Gobind Singh ji's hukam was referring to ALL sikhs.

 

[BhagatSingh]

What an answer. Now please give me some proof

Firstly, we should define "becoming one with god".

 

[Archived_Member5]

The definition of becoming one with God is to gain God Consciousness, Spiritual Transcendence, The complete virtues, wisdom, intellectual reasoning replete with the ability to heal and enlighten all one touches with ones spiritual presence. Reasons for difficulty in assessing such ascended souls are spiritual souls become divined and reclusive, spiritual souls gain such peace they cease to give discourses. {I find tormented souls speak if only to give vent and voice to their inner demons, or confusion} in gaining Gods Spirit one no longer communes with others for one is immersed in the universe of Ones imagination.

The law of Sufism dictates most such souls live obscure lives in ordinate households. Upon having a light cast upon their bushel, they seem to attract, by nature of historical evidence devotees and demons alike, diminishing the peace of their inner sanctums. This is the reason for having so few truly and quantumly enlightened fountains of wisdom in the world. Those having gained a drop or pearl of knowledge, deluded to thinking they have gained wisdom, take their new found pearl to market. In the market knowledge is corrupted by fear of confrontation with opposing powers it is diametrically opposed to, or distortion for benefit of ****herment of self interest.

This explains why so few intellectuals can convincingly impart true wisdom to the masses without compromising themselves in some way, as power tends to corrupt the less than wholly Godly. The creation of a media and public environment and atmosphere conducive to the nurturing and proliferation of saintly and good souls is primarily required to tackle the powerful evil forces at large.

 

[Archived_Member4]

I will definitely need rest after trying to explain to you how amrit ceremony is a ritual.
Anyway, let's begin.
A ritual is
[SIZE=-1][SIZE=-1]- any customary observance or practice [/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1]- of or relating to or characteristic of religious rituals; "ritual killing"[/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1]- the prescribed procedure for conducting religious ceremonies [/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1]- of or relating to or employed in social rites or rituals; "a ritual dance of Haiti"; "sedate little colonial tribe with its ritual tea parties"- Nadine Gordimer[/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1]- stereotyped behavior[/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1]Agreed?[/SIZE]

[/SIZE]Amrit ceremony is a customary practice. There is a prescribed procedure of how to make and serve amrit. Agreed?

Since amrit ceremony fits into that definition of a ritual, therefore we can call it a ritual.
Now that wasn't too hard to understand, was it? I tried explaining it fully.

The amrit sanskar is not customary practice. The Amrit Sanskar is only done when a Sikh is ready to take Amrit meaning they are ready to serve in the Khalsa Panth. It would be only customary practice if it was practiced because every month the Sikhs get together and performed this ceremony and then go on with there day as the same person.

 

[Archived_Member4]

Quote:
Singh ji, Khalsa is a discipline, it is not to be confused with Sikhi. Sikhi is all about SGGS. No reahat maryada, no dasam Granth, no sarbloh granth, no <insert name of another granth here> granth, simply SGGS.
BTW your question is absurd. You are implying that Guru Gobind Singh ji's hukam was referring to ALL Sikhs.

Guru Gobind Singh Sahib ji made two orders that day one for the Sikh and the other for the Khalsa. The one for the Sikh said Hukam: A Sikh must keep hair and not smoke tobacco. A Sikh must not have sexual relationship outside the marital bond and cannot eat the flesh of an animal killed slowly in the Muslim way or in any sacrificial ceremony.

 

[spnadmin]

Jios,

What I have found very deep and in my humble opinion very helpful in understanding the spiritual importance of "kesh" and other practices and rituals are statements here and there is the posts of jeetijohal ji.

Real flashes of insight - putting things together. Would that some others would comment on these.

But humbel thanks to jeetijohal ji.

 

[BhagatSingh]

The amrit sanskar is not customary practice. The Amrit Sanskar is only done when a Sikh is ready to take Amrit meaning they are ready to serve in the Khalsa Panth. It would be only customary practice if it was practiced because every month the Sikhs get together and performed this ceremony and then go on with there day as the same person.

:shock:
Let me help you out.

cus·tom·ar·y

/ˈkʌs

təˌmɛr

i/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[kuhs-tuh-mer-ee] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation adjective, noun, plural -ar·ies. –adjective 1.according to or depending on custom; usual; habitual. 2.of or established by custom rather than law. 3.Law. defined by long-continued practices: the customary service due from land in a manor. [SIZE=-1]
[/SIZE]

 

[Archived_Member4]

:shock:
Let me help you out.

cus·tom·ar·y

/ˈkʌs

təˌmɛr

i/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[kuhs-tuh-mer-ee] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation adjective, noun, plural -ar·ies. –adjective 1.according to or depending on custom; usual; habitual. 2.of or established by custom rather than law. 3.Law. defined by long-continued practices: the customary service due from land in a manor.

Who said the Amrit Sanskar was established by customs? There is nothing in the Amrit Sanskar that was established by customs. You got it all wrong my friend tell me by which custom was the Amrit Sansakr established on?

 

[BhagatSingh]

Who said the Amrit Sanskar was established by customs?

ya... who said?

There is nothing in the Amrit Sanskar that was established by customs.

It wasn't established on customs but its a custom now.
Custom is
[SIZE=-1]-accepted or habitual practice
-a specific practice of long standing
[/SIZE]
someone needs a dictionary...:shifty:

You got it all wrong my friend tell me by which custom was the Amrit Sansakr established on?

get some rest... I never said it is established on customs; stop accusing me of things i never said!!! :}: