How Could Guru Nanak Visit Mecca If He Wasn't A Muslim?

[ohhcuppycakee]

ohhcuppycakee ji don't get discouraged but be wise to see beyond poster names. Many a poster are not necessarily what they post themselves to be . We run across agent provocateurs, etc., and it takes a bit of practice to realize some people's agendas.

Why don't you start a topic on Islam as not everyone may be as knowledgeable but as Sikh (learner) we always love to learn.

Before partition our village had more muslims than Sikhs and everyone loved each other. Their was a cultural and human bond. Post 1947 is a hate driven era one seems to have lost the heaven pre 1947.

Please challenge to if there is something wrong stated. The admins are very fair on this forum and encourage interfaith dialog as much as they can.

May the days and nights bring you health, happiness and prosperity.

I'm just so sick of seeing hate on every religious forum out there. Religious forums just seem to attract extremists. The people I know in real life are not hateful, whether they be Christian, Muslim, Hindu, etc. (I actually don't know any Sikhs in real life, but would like to. I contacted the local gurdwara by e-mail, but no one replied back.) And people need to really stop with this conspiracy theory. I go on Muslim forums, they think it's a all Western or Christian conspiracy. I go on Hindu forums, they think it's a all a Muslim conspiracy, etc! Seriously not everything is a big plot!

 

[Scarlet Pimpernel]

I'm just so sick of seeing hate on every religious forum out there

Perhaps the earth is Gods forum in the Galaxy and the adminstrator is God, and the moderators are inside us but they're asleep.
Any way in a few billion years that will all end and we will all hug eachother and fly off into space,but me being illusive means I will hiding in the Milky Way.

 

[Seeker9]

I'm just so sick of seeing hate on every religious forum out there. Religious forums just seem to attract extremists. The people I know in real life are not hateful, whether they be Christian, Muslim, Hindu, etc. (I actually don't know any Sikhs in real life, but would like to. I contacted the local gurdwara by e-mail, but no one replied back.) And people need to really stop with this conspiracy theory. I go on Muslim forums, they think it's a all Western or Christian conspiracy. I go on Hindu forums, they think it's a all a Muslim conspiracy, etc! Seriously not everything is a big plot!

Dear ohhcuppycakee Ji

Sikhs and Muslims have fought against each other in the past and sadly some people have not moved on from that history

As I noted on another thread, Islam has been hijacked by a small rotten minority of hard core extremists and there actions are broadcasted by global media and give Islam a bad image

 

[Joginder Singh Foley]

WJKKWJKF Sat Siri Akal

All of the current middle east Arab/Islamic nations are post World War One creations by the brits and the french when they devided up the remaines of the Ottoman empire that was controlled by Turkey which had fought along side the Kaiser's Germany in WW1 and did not exsist at the time of guru Nanakji's trip to Mecca

:happysingh:

 

[kds1980]

Dear ohhcuppycakee Ji

Sikhs and Muslims have fought against each other in the past and sadly some people have not moved on from that history

As I noted on another thread, Islam has been hijacked by a small rotten minority of hard core extremists and there actions are broadcasted by global media and give Islam a bad image

Seeker ji

What makes you think that Islam is hijacked my small minority? I am really sorry but whenever you conduct elections in hardcore islamic countries the islamic parties end up winning with huge victories,while secular parties hardly secure many votes.So the idea of small rotten minority is just to please muslims.

I have a question for you how many times these secular muslims have asked the islamic countries to adopt secular values? These secular muslims will shout with their full voice that they are discriminated in non muslim countries but I have never seen muslim organisations pressuring muslim countries to allow religious freedom to minorities

 

[ohhcuppycakee]

Seeker ji

What makes you think that Islam is hijacked my small minority? I am really sorry but whenever you conduct elections in hardcore islamic countries the islamic parties end up winning with huge victories,while secular parties hardly secure many votes.So the idea of small rotten minority is just to please muslims.

I have a question for you how many times these secular muslims have asked the islamic countries to adopt secular values? These secular muslims will shout with their full voice that they are discriminated in non muslim countries but I have never seen muslim organisations pressuring muslim countries to allow religious freedom to minorities

Muslims may not be organized enough to get much done, but many, MANY Muslims believe in religious freedom for minorities. I personally have only met a few that haven't. I go to masjid weekly and interact with Muslims daily. I know lots of Muslims, and they are not "extreme", a few are, but most of them are just good people.

 

[kds1980]

Muslims may not be organized enough to get much done, but many, MANY Muslims believe in religious freedom for minorities. I personally have only met a few that haven't. I go to masjid weekly and interact with Muslims daily. I know lots of Muslims, and they are not "extreme", a few are, but most of them are just good people.

Personal experiance in these cases are irrelevant.Most of people never disclose their extremist views ,many times its only in their deep hearts.Before Partition of India manu Punjabi muslims and Sikhs were living very peacefully with each other but at the time of partition First Muslims pounced on Sikhs and later Sikhs retaliated.When the division of India was proposed and muslim league was aggressively pursuing the the demand of separate muslim state then 90% of muslims of India voted for Muslim league irrespectively whether their area will be in India or Pakistan,so if muslims wanted they could had opted for secularism and undivided India but they preffered a muslim land which according to their leaders would be like jannat to them

 

[Ambarsaria]

Personal experiance in these cases are irrelevant.Most of people never disclose their extremist views ,many times its only in their deep hearts.Before Partition of India manu Punjabi muslims and Sikhs were living very peacefully with each other but at the time of partition First Muslims pounced on Sikhs and later Sikhs retaliated.When the division of India was proposed and muslim league was aggressively pursuing the the demand of separate muslim state then 90% of muslims of India voted for Muslim league irrespectively whether their area will be in India or Pakistan,so if muslims wanted they could had opted for secularism and undivided India but they preffered a muslim land which according to their leaders would be like jannat to them

In the same vein, kds1980 ji don't you believe Sikhs were stupid in not asking for a seaparate Punjab in 1947 which would have included Haryana, Himachal, parts of Kashmir and parts of Rajasthan! Perhaps the Muslims so then what Sikhs never saw.

Sat Sri Akal.

 

[Seeker9]

Seeker ji

What makes you think that Islam is hijacked my small minority? I am really sorry but whenever you conduct elections in hardcore islamic countries the islamic parties end up winning with huge victories,while secular parties hardly secure many votes.So the idea of small rotten minority is just to please muslims.

I have a question for you how many times these secular muslims have asked the islamic countries to adopt secular values? These secular muslims will shout with their full voice that they are discriminated in non muslim countries but I have never seen muslim organisations pressuring muslim countries to allow religious freedom to minorities

Dear KDS1980 Ji

I was referring specifically to jihadist and extremist muslims

I believe they are in a minority yet they are the ones that attract the media interest through their actions

 

[Seeker9]

Seeker ji

What makes you think that Islam is hijacked my small minority? I am really sorry but whenever you conduct elections in hardcore islamic countries the islamic parties end up winning with huge victories,while secular parties hardly secure many votes.So the idea of small rotten minority is just to please muslims.

I have a question for you how many times these secular muslims have asked the islamic countries to adopt secular values? These secular muslims will shout with their full voice that they are discriminated in non muslim countries but I have never seen muslim organisations pressuring muslim countries to allow religious freedom to minorities

Dear KDS1980 Ji

In my haste I forgot to reply to the second part of your post

I think I agree with what you say

It is my belief that the hardcore I referred to earlier have now created such a culture of fear that societies bend over backwards to accomodate Muslims so that they will be less risk of reprisals from disaffected individuals...some of whom have been reared on our own soil

I hope I don't sound xenophobic when I say that

Examples are things like the provision of Halal food regardless without telling people, changing the wording of long-standing traditional Christmas Carols, referring to a Winter festival instead of a Christmas festival, allowing Sharia Law for certain disputes etc

All thin end of the wedge stuff

All stuff that gives ammunition to white extremeist groups

All stuff I fundamentally disagree with and I blame the government for not making a stand

 

[Searching]

What makes you think that Islam is hijacked my small minority? I am really sorry but whenever you conduct elections in hardcore islamic countries the islamic parties end up winning with huge victories,while secular parties hardly secure many votes.So the idea of small rotten minority is just to please muslims.

I have a question for you how many times these secular muslims have asked the islamic countries to adopt secular values? These secular muslims will shout with their full voice that they are discriminated in non muslim countries but I have never seen muslim organisations pressuring muslim countries to allow religious freedom to minorities

KDS1980 ji
You need to read more about Turkey and Tunisia. Both are secular middle eastern nations with majority Muslim population (almost 98%). Both have banned Hijab in public places. Homosexuality is legal in Turkey, Polygamy is illegal in both the countries.
There are other majority Muslim countries that are secular like Lebanon, Syria, Indonesia etc.
I have met Muslims that are very extreme in their approach (most of them online) but I do agree with ohcuppycake ji in reality most of them are different from their online avatars.
So please don't fall into the trap of negativity against Muslims.

 

[kds1980]

In the same vein, kds1980 ji don't you believe Sikhs were stupid in not asking for a seaparate Punjab in 1947 which would have included Haryana, Himachal, parts of Kashmir and parts of Rajasthan! Perhaps the Muslims so then what Sikhs never saw.

Sat Sri Akal.

Sikhs did ask for a separate nation and Britishers replied to them to Submit their plan but Sikhs did not have any as There was not even a single Sikh majority district.Personally I would love to see all these became Sikh country but demography was against the sikhs.If we take present day demography of these area then there will be no more than 20-25% of Sikhs in these area ,so making it a sikh country was nearly impossible

 

[ohhcuppycakee]

Personal experiance in these cases are irrelevant.Most of people never disclose their extremist views ,many times its only in their deep hearts.Before Partition of India manu Punjabi muslims and Sikhs were living very peacefully with each other but at the time of partition First Muslims pounced on Sikhs and later Sikhs retaliated.When the division of India was proposed and muslim league was aggressively pursuing the the demand of separate muslim state then 90% of muslims of India voted for Muslim league irrespectively whether their area will be in India or Pakistan,so if muslims wanted they could had opted for secularism and undivided India but they preffered a muslim land which according to their leaders would be like jannat to them

First of all, the religious tension on the Indian subcontinent that caused the partition was between Muslims and Hindus. Sikhs were just caught in the crossfire, and I am sure that there are plenty of Hindus that have invoked anti-Sikh rhetoric. Second, your argument that anyone could be a secret extremist is a serious logical fallacy. If a person makes a claim you do not like, you label them an extremist. If a person claims that not everyone with certain views is an extremist, you will claim that either they are an extremist or have been fooled by extremists. The only way you can be convinced that a person is not a "closet extremist" (which is an oxy{censored} in its own right) is to agree with your perspective. Also, the Muslims of India and Pakistan in 1947 are not the Muslims of India and Pakistan today. Many Muslims were most likely hoping to leave Hindu dominated India to move to Muslim dominated Pakistan to avoid discrimination. If there had been a vote to create a separate African-American dominated state at the end of slavery, I am reasonably sure the African-American vote for the creation of that state would have be heavily in favor of it, even if they did not live in the region. Also, if India was so concerned with having a united Indian subcontinent, they did not have to have a vote. They could have subdued Pakistani nationalists by force.

 

[findingmyway]

I contacted the local gurdwara by e-mail, but no one replied back.)

Unfortunately Gurdwara details on the internet are often outdated! TRy calling if there is a phone number (sometimes you'll need to call a few times if its only open part time and some of the people don't understand English to return answerphone messages). Good luck!

 

[ohhcuppycakee]

Unfortunately Gurdwara details on the internet are often outdated! TRy calling if there is a phone number (sometimes you'll need to call a few times if its only open part time and some of the people don't understand English to return answerphone messages). Good luck!

Yeah, I never like to call though since I'm a little shy on the phone. xD The last time I called a house of worship before going it was incredibly awkward, haha.

 

[kds1980]

Second, your argument that anyone could be a secret extremist is a serious logical fallacy. If a person makes a claim you do not like, you label them an extremist

Dear OCC

I think you have not understand what I am saying.A secret Extremist means Who Despite knowing that his leader is guilty of intolerance will still vote or support for him irrespective of fact what other community is going through.This happened in Gujarat 2002 and in North India 1984 when Hindu's despite knowing who were responsible for riots people still went to vote for them .In other words it is silent support given to killer politicians.

As far as muslim world is concerned ,a very large percentage of muslim world give silent support to their extremist.No government in the world can survive without the support of masses ,if out of 50 plus muslim countries you only have 2-3 secular muslim countries then it clearly mean that large number of muslims are giving silent support to their non secular islamic governments

 

[kds1980]

KDS1980 ji
You need to read more about Turkey and Tunisia. Both are secular middle eastern nations with majority Muslim population (almost 98%). Both have banned Hijab in public places. Homosexuality is legal in Turkey, Polygamy is illegal in both the countries.
There are other majority Muslim countries that are secular like Lebanon, Syria, Indonesia etc.
I have met Muslims that are very extreme in their approach (most of them online) but I do agree with ohcuppycake ji in reality most of them are different from their online avatars.
So please don't fall into the trap of negativity against Muslims.

Seeker ji

There is difference between analysing facts and negativity.Out of 50 plus muslim countries you only came up with few names and except Turkey Religious freedom in those country could be debatable

 

[Ambarsaria]

KDS1980 ji I believe you really are talking from a pedestal a bit here.

On a scale of 1 to 10 where 1 is bad and 10 is good. How do you score India's so called secularism?

Name 1 minority which has not had its fair share of persecution by the majority. I don't want to hear about all the faults in the minorities argument. Majority is supposed to have benevolence.

I will say India rates at 2.5 and publicizes itself at 10+ and is getting worse!

Sat Sri Akal.

 

[kds1980]

Ambarsaria ji

I will rate India as 5/10 these days and 3 in 80s and 90s.

 

[Verma1]

Verma1 ji there was nothing to believe in Hindu Idols/Gods or Allah for Guru Nanak Dev ji. So it wasn't just Allah.

Again I say it is great to see Hindu, Muslim and Christian wanting to claim closeness with Guru Nanak Dev ji like the Sikhs do. It is great.

Sat Sri Akal.

Actually, Guru Nanak Dev Ji was born into a Hindu Kshatriya family. So the root of the Sikh religion lies in Hinduism. The Sikh religion was actuallycreated by Guru Gibind Singh Ji much later. Sikhism now has become a religion in its own right. Guru Nanak Dev Ji simply wanted to create peace hence why said he does not belong to any religion. He went on to marry a Hindu lady and His children also had Hindu names.

Whether or not you want to believe this or anyone, does not change the fact that this is true.