How To See God In All?

[Harry Haller]

Have you read Guru Granth Sahib Ji?

I have read parts, however, I believe that it is encapsulated in the Mool Mantra, I do believe one has to get ones head round that before proceeding as it sets the tone, but we are all different.

I'd suggest read it when you get a chance.

thank you, however, I do believe no one stands between me and 'god', I do what I do, in my own time, in my own way, otherwise it is purely lip service.

Naam simran= meditate on naam. Naam is Truth, its a frequency beyond what people can comprehend. Discovered by applying principles of Gurbani to our lives as per Guru Granth Sahib ji.

these are just words though, they mean nothing, to most naam simran is the repetition of a mantra, but you are contradicting yourself, if it is a frequency beyond what people can comprehend, how can it be discovered period?

He put us here to discover the Truth/ ourselves in a fraction of the time that He did.

so there was a time when 'god' did not know the truth and had to learn it?

Teaching others is the same unconditional love that He gave to us when he blessed us with this opportunity to realise ourselves

teaching others what? that 'god' learned to be a god? that 'god' was never always true? these are not teachings that I wish to learn and I would ask you to be very careful before you put yourself in a position where you are teaching what actually amounts to blasphemy.

The truth = Nothing. There is nothing, we are nothing, only pure unconditional love.

I disagree, it may be a state you aspire to, but most people are not pure unconditional love

 

[Original]

People,

Let us remain on course and keep in check what it is that we are discussing ? God in All.

Anhad, literal meaning is "unstruck". A sound [shabad] that is, but unstruck, meaning, without cause. Have a think Sikhilove ! something that is unstruch but yet a sound, how could it possibly be ? Defies science and logic. And, if that'd be correct, can any of the human organs confirm hearing it ?

Those who hear the anhad shabad are forever silenced because there is no way of communicating. Bhagat Kabir Ji nips in the bud precisely for that reason when he says, "no letters of any alphabet can capture" [p340 SGGSJ].

Sikhilove, you're talking about certain states of being, anhad is an experience, transcendent, beyond time and space that cannot be expressed but had. More akin to the mystical experience of Christian belief - union with God !

Warm regards to all -

 

[Sikhilove]

I have read parts, however, I believe that it is encapsulated in the Mool Mantra, I do believe one has to get ones head round that before proceeding as it sets the tone, but we are all different.



thank you, however, I do believe no one stands between me and 'god', I do what I do, in my own time, in my own way, otherwise it is purely lip service.



these are just words though, they mean nothing, to most naam simran is the repetition of a mantra, but you are contradicting yourself, if it is a frequency beyond what people can comprehend, how can it be discovered period?



so there was a time when 'god' did not know the truth and had to learn it?



teaching others what? that 'god' learned to be a god? that 'god' was never always true? these are not teachings that I wish to learn and I would ask you to be very careful before you put yourself in a position where you are teaching what actually amounts to blasphemy.



I disagree, it may be a state you aspire to, but most people are not pure unconditional love

Yes the entire Guru Granth Sahib Ji is an extension of mool mantar.

You could also similarly say that all u see is an extention of the formless truth.

Gurbani says that Naam turns humans into angels without delay. When u live the truth you go beyond a mortal human psychology.

Gurbani speaks about God being on his own sitting in the primal void in Samaadhi, deep meditation. He discovers himself through us- we are an extention of Him. Samaadhi is learning.

We are an extention of Him, of His heart. Guru Gobind Singh Ji told us He can only be found through Love for a reason.
 

People,

Let us remain on course and keep in check what it is that we are discussing ? God in All.

Anhad, literal meaning is "unstruck". A sound [shabad] that is, but unstruck, meaning, without cause. Have a think Sikhilove ! something that is unstruch but yet a sound, how could it possibly be ? Defies science and logic. And, if that'd be correct, can any of the human organs confirm hearing it ?

Those who hear the anhad shabad are forever silenced because there is no way of communicating. Bhagat Kabir Ji nips in the bud precisely for that reason when he says, "no letters of any alphabet can capture" [p340 SGGSJ].

Sikhilove, you're talking about certain states of being, anhad is an experience, transcendent, beyond time and space that cannot be expressed but had. More akin to the mystical experience of Christian belief - union with God !

Warm regards to all -

Yes even the ringing noise is symbolic. In Truth, there is no form, colour or sound.

In the same way, our images are symbolic, all imagery is.

 

[Original]

Yes even the ringing noise is symbolic. In Truth, there is no form, colour or sound.

..I'm trying to get my head around [quote above in bold] "yes..noise" and "..no...sound" - pls clarify !

 

[Harry Haller]

Gurbani speaks about God being on his own sitting in the primal void in Samaadhi, deep meditation. He discovers himself through us- we are an extention of Him. Samaadhi is learning.

are you saying that god is not perfect then, if he is in fact still learning and discovering himself?

 

[Sikhilove]

..I'm trying to get my head around [quote above in bold] "yes..noise" and "..no...sound" - pls clarify !

The primal void= the silence= our origin.

Everything we see and the spiritual plane is a projection of this nothingness. They're symbolic reflection. Anhad naad is symbolic reflection of the Truth, of the silence. Attuned to it, we silence the mind.
 

are you saying that god is not perfect then, if he is in fact still learning and discovering himself?

Gods been through every state of dukh and sukh possible. He also discovers through us- we are projections of the infinite- so the whole, the perfection of the heart is within reach, but the projections and discoveries are infinite, like Him.

 

[Harry Haller]

The primal void= the silence= our origin.

Everything we see and the spiritual plane is a projection of this nothingness. They're symbolic reflection. Anhad naad is symbolic reflection of the Truth, of the silence. Attuned to it, we silence the mind.
 


Gods been through every state of dukh and sukh possible. He also discovers through us- we are projections of the infinite- so the whole, the perfection of the heart is within reach, but the projections and discoveries are infinite, like Him.

I always thought God was perfect and has always been

 

[Original]

Respected Sikhilove

The word "anhad" means "unstruck", why would Gur Ghar use that word ? Can you think of a sound in the physical world that is uncaused ? Can you think of the reason why Gur Amardas described it "anhad shabad vajay din raati gurmati shabad sunvan'ah" p124 SGGSJ. Here Guru Ji is saying that this Anhad Shabad is resounding 25/7 and is beyond the apprehension of the senses and is incommunicable. If the Guru says it is incommunicable, how can you communicate it ? Surely, you're expression is the work of the mind, don't you think ?

The same Anhad Shabad is referenced by Bhagat Kabir on page 340 SGGSJ. The whole Sikh Spiritual, the nam, is "anhad shabad". It cannot be captured by any stretch of the imagination, but alone by the grace of Waheguru [Gur Prasad] can it be experienced. And, those who've experienced it expressed it as "mystical", meaning beyond time n space

It is beyond time and space, meaning, it is metaphysical. There is no way of "knowing it" only experiencing it and the experience is such, that it cannot be communicated. And, hence Gurbani a testament of the "anhad shabad"

Enjoy Diwali today - and all the best !

 

[Sikhilove]

I always thought God was perfect and has always been

Lol he is

What you're asking me to explain is beyond logic. He is the All knower of past present and future. But as we discover so does He.
 

Respected Sikhilove

The word "anhad" means "unstruck", why would Gur Ghar use that word ? Can you think of a sound in the physical world that is uncaused ? Can you think of the reason why Gur Amardas described it "anhad shabad vajay din raati gurmati shabad sunvan'ah" p124 SGGSJ. Here Guru Ji is saying that this Anhad Shabad is resounding 25/7 and is beyond the apprehension of the senses and is incommunicable. If the Guru says it is incommunicable, how can you communicate it ? Surely, you're expression is the work of the mind, don't you think ?

The same Anhad Shabad is referenced by Bhagat Kabir on page 340 SGGSJ. The whole Sikh Spiritual, the nam, is "anhad shabad". It cannot be captured by any stretch of the imagination, but alone by the grace of Waheguru [Gur Prasad] can it be experienced. And, those who've experienced it expressed it as "mystical", meaning beyond time n space

It is beyond time and space, meaning, it is metaphysical. There is no way of "knowing it" only experiencing it and the experience is such, that it cannot be communicated. And, hence Gurbani a testament of the "anhad shabad"

Enjoy Diwali today - and all the best !

If you relax and let go, you can hear the symbolic reflection of it. It is Gyan/Truth and takes you within, attuned to it you learn more and more and discover that He not only resides in your heart, but He Is your heart.

 

[Original]

If you relax and let go, you can hear the symbolic reflection of it

...Ms, we're not talking about symbolic, we're talking about "actual", Gur Ghar is talking about ACTUAL. Question: If the actual sound be unstruck, meaning, without cause, what ears must one have to hear it ? Surely, not physical ? And, if it'd be attunement, what must be attuned to what ? Here I think you'd be referring to the stillness [sehej] of the mind. Case in point is, what happens thereinafter is called anhad shabad, meaning, ineffable.

Gyan, Truth and the rest are words [means] to an end, the end is metaphysical, meaning, out of space and time. And, that is what "Anhad Shabad" is, meaning, you cannot ascribe any quality, quantity or property to it. Any attempt to capture it with words will fail. It is that simple !

Good day !

 

[Harry Haller]

Lol he is

What you're asking me to explain is beyond logic. He is the All knower of past present and future. But as we discover so does He.

Can you tell me where in the SGGS it says this?
Also, it is not beyond logic at all, something is either perfect and always has been, or its not, which is it? You are welcome to throw up clouds of dust to hide your answers behind, but a succinct answer would be appreciated.

 

[Sikhilove]

...Ms, we're not talking about symbolic, we're talking about "actual", Gur Ghar is talking about ACTUAL. Question: If the actual sound be unstruck, meaning, without cause, what ears must one have to hear it ? Surely, not physical ? And, if it'd be attunement, what must be attuned to what ? Here I think you'd be referring to the stillness [sehej] of the mind. Case in point is, what happens thereinafter is called anhad shabad, meaning, ineffable.

Gyan, Truth and the rest are words [means] to an end, the end is metaphysical, meaning, out of space and time. And, that is what "Anhad Shabad" is, meaning, you cannot ascribe any quality, quantity or property to it. Any attempt to capture it with words will fail. It is that simple !

Good day !

What is really heard and what's not? Gurbani says our bodies are clay vessels. Spirits roam around the earth, the Gurus turned lakes of ice into water, made coins appear out of thin air and stopped huge boulders of rocks with only a hand.

A hand isn't a hand, an ear isn't an ear. Recognise the khel for what it is instead of using worldly logic- it's a dream.
 

Can you tell me where in the SGGS it says this?
Also, it is not beyond logic at all, something is either perfect and always has been, or its not, which is it? You are welcome to throw up clouds of dust to hide your answers behind, but a succinct answer would be appreciated.

The nothingness is perfect- it's pure unconditional love. We are projections of that nothingness. These are infinite discoveries which project from that nothingness.

Gurbani says that He is the all knower of the past present and future, it also says he expands His creation, google it.

He created this khel for us- we didn't exist once. Hence he discovered us whilst creating us. But We are parts of the Whole. Truth, the nothingness is the whole. His creation is fragments of it. Everything with an image is duality, put together, It's all the whole,

What u call clouds of dust is reality- the truth is beyond logic and no worldly logic can explain it.

 

[Harry Haller]

Gurbani says that He is the all knower of the past present and future, it also says he expands His creation, google it.

I do not wish to google it, I want you to back up all your lovely flowery writing with some facts, else all it is is just flowery writing with no substance, also please point out where it states that God at some point was imperfect, and while your at it, also where it states that God uses our own experiences to learn from, thanks

 

[Sikhilove]

I do not wish to google it, I want you to back up all your lovely flowery writing with some facts, else all it is is just flowery writing with no substance, also please point out where it states that God at some point was imperfect, and while your at it, also where it states that God uses our own experiences to learn from, thanks

Friend, part of sikhi is respecting others. I don't sense respect in your writings to me, but I see rudeness. You as an administrator on here should learn to speak more tactfully.

When it comes to sikhi, writing Should be flowery, Gurbani speaks of heavens and hells, of demons and Angels. It tells us over and over again that His creation, even heaven realms cannot be described in worldly language. It speaks of a beauty beyond comprehension and beyond measure.

If you want Wordly logic and Language, Sikhi isn't for you, because it's beyond language and logic. You're better off being a Scientist.

Gurbani is poetry, it's beautiful because it's the teachings of True Love.

There are planets, solar systems and galaxies. If one speaks of them, there is no limit, no end. There are worlds upon worlds of His creation. As He commands, so they exist. He watches over all, and contemplating the creation, He rejoices. Nanak says, it is really hard to describe" (Guru Granth Sahib Ji, 8).

Contemplation is learning, it's discovery. Samadhi is discovery, your going within and learning more about yourself.

• "For endless eons, there was only utter darkness. There was no earth or sky; there was only the infinite Command of His Hukam. There was no day or night, no moon or sun; God sat in primal, profound Samaadhi.(1) There were no sources of creation or powers of speech, no air or water. There was no creation or destruction, no coming or going. There were no continents, nether regions, seven seas, rivers or flowing water.(2)" (SGGS p1035)

• "For thirty-six ages, He created the darkness, abiding in the void. There were no Vedas, Puraanas or Shaastras there; only the Lord Himself existed. He Himself sat in the absolute trance, withdrawn from everything. Only He Himself knows His state; He Himself is the unfathomable ocean.(18)" (SGGS p555)

You continue to claim I'm saying God is imperfect. How can he be when he is ALL. We are created from the ALL. But as he creates his khel, He discovers the All in different fragmented aspects.

Again, beyond logic. If you can't go beyond logic, you won't get very far on this path.

You haven't humbled yourself to even try and understand what I was talking about- instead you jump to slander and try and say that I think my Master is imperfect. Its useless even trying to explain anything to you because you don't get it and instead try to twist it.

 

[Admin]

Friend, part of sikhi is respecting others. I don't sense respect in your writings to me, but I see rudeness. You as an administrator on here should learn to speak more tactfully.

@Sikhilove ji, the major part of Sikhi (learning) is to question every belief system. In the disguise/garb of respect, we conveniently undermine this major tenet of Sikhi. All @Harry Haller ji is asking you is to support your assertions with verifiable references from Gurbani, our only benchmark. Don't you think asking anybody to "google it" is not showing disrespect to our only Guru, SGGS?

When it comes to sikhi, writing Should be flowery...

Please explain, What do you mean by flowery?

 

[Harry Haller]

Friend, part of sikhi is respecting others. I don't sense respect in your writings to me, but I see rudeness. You as an administrator on here should learn to speak more tactfully.

You have yet to answer a single question I have asked of you, you post links to websites that laud a living Guru, you write as if you know all the answers, yet seem unable to back this up with any substance, I think I have been quite tactful and patient, as a moderator I have to ensure that any definitive writings are backed up with definitive proof, otherwise, its quite easy, stop writing definitively, try using the words, 'in my opinion', or 'it is my thinking', but you don't you keep posting huge tracts of definitive statements that you then attribute to the SGGS. I would be failing in my job if this was not pointed out, it is nothing personal.

When it comes to sikhi, writing Should be flowery, Gurbani speaks of heavens and hells, of demons and Angels. It tells us over and over again that His creation, even heaven realms cannot be described in worldly language. It speaks of a beauty beyond comprehension and beyond measure.

Yes it does, and how that is interpreted is up to the individual, having said that, flowery writing, ie, writing that on the face of it sounds good, but has no substance, achieves nothing, it is surface writing, purely for the ego, SGGS is not written in that fashion, it is written to prompt deep thinking, it is factual, it can be backed up, if you are not prepared to backup what you are writing, then don't write it, otherwise we will have a forum filled with everyone's personal opinion that no one feels the need to substantiate, there are other forums that operate like this, not this one.

If you want Wordly logic and Language, Sikhi isn't for you, because it's beyond language and logic. You're better off being a Scientist.

Thank you for your opinion but I am not a scientist, I find the SGGS full of worldly logic, I am surprised you have written this. Are you saying the SGGS has no worldly logic?

You continue to claim I'm saying God is imperfect. How can he be when he is ALL. We are created from the ALL. But as he creates his khel, He discovers the All in different fragmented aspects.

You have said many times God is learning, what other conclusion can one draw from such a statement? You see this is the problem with surface flowery writing, you forget that your words actually mean things if you follow them through, do you not wish me to take your writings seriously?
Should I just read them and bow down before your wisdom? If god is learning then he is not perfect, would you not say? Above you have said god discovers, again, if god is still discovering, then he is not perfect, perfection already knows, does not need to discover, please clarify this.

You haven't humbled yourself to even try and understand what I was talking about- instead you jump to slander and try and say that I think my Master is imperfect. Its useless even trying to explain anything to you because you don't get it and instead try to twist it.

How can I twist this statement that you made below

He discovers the All in different fragmented aspects.

discover verb
UK /dɪˈskʌv.ər/ US /dɪˈskʌv.ɚ/
[ T ] to find information, a place, or an object, especially for the first time:

If God is perfect then he knows all, discover is not a word that can be used for a perfect god.

Please clarify this, thank you.
 

Please explain, What do you mean by flowery?

Flowery is a word I used, I would say it describes writing that is full of buzz words but has no substance or fact.

 

[chazSingh]

You have yet to answer a single question I have asked of you, you post links to websites that laud a living Guru, you write as if you know all the answers, yet seem unable to back this up with any substance, I think I have been quite tactful and patient, as a moderator I have to ensure that any definitive writings are backed up with definitive proof, otherwise, its quite easy, stop writing definitively, try using the words, 'in my opinion', or 'it is my thinking', but you don't you keep posting huge tracts of definitive statements that you then attribute to the SGGS. I would be failing in my job if this was not pointed out, it is nothing personal.



Yes it does, and how that is interpreted is up to the individual, having said that, flowery writing, ie, writing that on the face of it sounds good, but has no substance, achieves nothing, it is surface writing, purely for the ego, SGGS is not written in that fashion, it is written to prompt deep thinking, it is factual, it can be backed up, if you are not prepared to backup what you are writing, then don't write it, otherwise we will have a forum filled with everyone's personal opinion that no one feels the need to substantiate, there are other forums that operate like this, not this one.



Thank you for your opinion but I am not a scientist, I find the SGGS full of worldly logic, I am surprised you have written this. Are you saying the SGGS has no worldly logic?



You have said many times God is learning, what other conclusion can one draw from such a statement? You see this is the problem with surface flowery writing, you forget that your words actually mean things if you follow them through, do you not wish me to take your writings seriously?
Should I just read them and bow down before your wisdom? If god is learning then he is not perfect, would you not say? Above you have said god discovers, again, if god is still discovering, then he is not perfect, perfection already knows, does not need to discover, please clarify this.



How can I twist this statement that you made below



discover verb
UK /dɪˈskʌv.ər/ US /dɪˈskʌv.ɚ/
[ T ] to find information, a place, or an object, especially for the first time:

If God is perfect then he knows all, discover is not a word that can be used for a perfect god.

Please clarify this, thank you.
 


Flowery is a word I used, I would say it describes writing that is full of buzz words but has no substance or fact.

Harry Ji, Have you ever been in love with someone? Can you describe that love in language? i'm sure you can...but how will it sound to others that read it? Flowery?

Why is that? is it because love is just something that is beyind words and logic...it transcends it? its a deep kind of feeling, emotion, sense of something, it just is, and we experience it and its there, but pretty much un-explainable...

some things in life are just like that...it sounds flowery, bogus, crazy...it sounds nonsense at times, because it is...nonsense to the logical mind...and is just something you you experience which makes you think..."wow...just wow"..."wahe"...."guru" ...wondrous...and you leave it at that...because trying to understand it just leaves you banging your head...but wanting more...as its pure love...

Gurbani is hitting us at a physical level, mental level and spiritual level...so yes some of Gurbani is very logical, and understandable and straight to the point...other parts challenges our mind, our though process , psychology...to contemplate the physcal, to contemplate our own being...what we are, who we are, what we think, why we think it, and how to cleanse that process that we become better minds, and thus better people...

With a better, more trained and in control mind, we may start to understand that our mind is even more useful and more powerful to us than we could ever imagine...that we need it in order to investigate the spiritual also...

Then during this investigation of the spiritual the mind gets left behind because where we find ourselves goes beyond its scope..

and all we're left with is...coming back on this forum, trying to answer questions that we cannot really answer...and sounding very flowery

 

[Harry Haller]

and all we're left with is...coming back on this forum, trying to answer questions that we cannot really answer...and sounding very flowery

Your humility, patience and perception have always rated high on my list, Chazji my dear brother, let us all write flowery to the cows come home, god knows I am capable of such writing myself, however, let us never expect our flowery writings to be confused with truth, yes, some questions we cannot answer, it might be better to admit such, than pretend otherwise and then be unable to substantiate, in a court of intellect and logic, our own floweryness.

 

[Original]

the major part of Sikhi (learning) is to question every belief system. In the disguise/garb of respect, we conveniently undermine this major tenet of Sikhi.

..please qualify !

 

[Harry Haller]

uhm photos in Gurdwaras of the Guru's
the importance of a full moon
trying to beat ones own best at recital speeds
the distinction of sexes at Darbar Sahib
discrimination of caste

I'm going to bed now, I am sure I can think of another dozen, and some really good ones, all the above command respect in Sikhism in some way shape or form.