Arts/Society I Don't Shave

[Harry Haller]

Mata Sahib Kaur also Mata Sahib Devan is known as the "Mother of the Khalsa". She earned the distinction by instilling the first Amrit with the sweetness that balances its fierceness.Mata Sahib Kaur, who was called 'Sahib Devan' was the Spiritual Mother of the Khalsa. Mata Sahib Kaur Ji accompanied Guru Sahib throughout his life.
Mata Sahib Devan's father wished her daughter to marry Guru Gobind Singh however as the Guru was already married, her father asked the Guru's permission for Mata Sahib Devan to live in the Guru's house as Sikh and serve the Guru and his family. Therefore, Mata Sahib Devan was never married and never had a physical relationship with the Guru. As a consequence of not marrying Mata Sahib Devan and her not being able to have children, Guru Gobind Singh made her the "Mother of the Khalsa". Up to this day in history, all Sikhs who take Amrit consider Mata Sahib Kaur as their (spiritual) Mother, and Guru Gobind Singh ji as their (spiritual) Father.

this was taken from Sikhiwikki, not the best source for all things Sikh, but one of the few descriptions that encapsulates the femine aspect of Sikhi without the dross about multiple marriages.



There are also multiple references to the soul bride in the SGGS that can possibly lend some idea of what Sikh femininity could be construed as, however, I have to concede that personally I think the Gurus saw men and women as people rather than different sexes, and that the ideal 'Sikh' marriage were two people who were jointly tender, brave, strong, masculine, feminine, as each other. I do not think any sex has a monopoly on these facets, in fact, my wife is more masculine than me, I am the one that feels rejected if I dont get a cuddle, or if a harsh word is said, my wife is as hard as nails, I am by comparison quite a sensitive soul.



To come back to the thread, we live in a society where there is equal pressure on men to have soft skin, and smell nice, mens grooming products equal womens!


We are all different, some women enjoy being girlie girls, some women enjoy being themselves without the pressure, the problem comes when men project the image they have of women onto women they associate with, in my view it is best not to have a preconcieved idea of what makes a woman, as there are many many different types of women, just accept who people are be they barbie doll lookalikes or women with body hair,



for the record, I had a german girlfriend once, and she was extremely against shaving, did not make any difference, thats just who she was.

 

[Inderjeet Kaur]

Since we still haven't heard back fro m Randip Singh ji, I'll offer a thought and a picture.

The thought: I do not paint myself; I believe my Creator did a good enough job. I do not wear jewelry or fancy clothes. I do not titter or giggle. When amused, I lol, really lol, sometimes so hard I can't breathe. I am not sweet and dainty and I am not subservient to any man living, only to Guru ji.

Although I have multiple disabilities, I can usually open doors and do whatever is necessary; and I am very happy for help courteously offered, whether by female or male.

I am a woman, a warrior woman; Mai Bhago is my ideal. I have been a wife and enjoyed being a wife. I have been a mother and was absolutely joyous about being a mother. So what is this femininity of which you speak? Please tell us.

I now upload my picture.

 

[Inderjeet Kaur]

As far as I'm concerned, this is the last word on femininity.

http://www.fordham.edu/halsall/mod/sojtruth-woman.asp

Sojourner Truth (1797-1883): Ain't I A Woman?
Delivered 1851
Women's Convention, Akron, Ohio

Well, children, where there is so much racket there must be something out of kilter. I think that 'twixt the negroes of the South and the women at the North, all talking about rights, the white men will be in a fix pretty soon. But what's all this here talking about?

That man over there says that women need to be helped into carriages, and lifted over ditches, and to have the best place everywhere. Nobody ever helps me into carriages, or over mud-puddles, or gives me any best place! And ain't I a woman? Look at me! Look at my arm! I have ploughed and planted, and gathered into barns, and no man could head me! And ain't I a woman? I could work as much and eat as much as a man - when I could get it - and bear the lash as well! And ain't I a woman? I have borne thirteen children, and seen most all sold off to slavery, and when I cried out with my mother's grief, none but Jesus heard me! And ain't I a woman?

Then they talk about this thing in the head; what's this they call it? [member of audience whispers, "intellect"] That's it, honey. What's that got to do with women's rights or negroes' rights? If my cup won't hold but a pint, and yours holds a quart, wouldn't you be mean not to let me have my little half measure full?

Then that little man in black there, he says women can't have as much rights as men, 'cause Christ wasn't a woman! Where did your Christ come from? Where did your Christ come from? From God and a woman! Man had nothing to do with Him.

If the first woman God ever made was strong enough to turn the world upside down all alone, these women together ought to be able to turn it back , and get it right side up again! And now they is asking to do it, the men better let them.

Obliged to you for hearing me, and now old Sojourner ain't got nothing more to say.

Listen to this stirring rendition.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XilHJc9IZvE

 

[spnadmin]

Actually, it will be hard to stop a discussion of femininity on this thread even if we start another thread and move some posts. The tyranny of cultural stereotypes regarding hair and women came up from the first post, and has continued. The only way to stop it would be to Close the thread. Then it would only pick up somewhere else.

And Randip Singh has not had his rejoinder yet! I forgot, there is the point made by linzer ji that is also looking hard at cultural stereotypes. That is waiting for an answer.

 

[namritanevaeh]

I am not sure what you are saying here... usually when people use the 'equal but different' statement, it's used to put women into subservience to men.

Personally, when I see the "women equal but different to men" statement, I agree and think about how women are able to carry children for 9 months, and GROW them. Feed them...for much longer than that...with our bodies. Men are completely incapable of doing that (well, the jury may be out on actual lactating to the extend needed to sustain a child's life, but they sure don't gestate a child the way we do nor does lactating come easily to them the way it does after pregnancy with us!).

We were not intended to be "equal" in all things. We are *superior* in some, such as above, and inferior in others, such as general physical strength (as a group, not saying that one individual woman can't be stronger than one individual man, since she often can...). We have fewer issues with heart disease than men. We have fewer genetic disorders, since so many genetic disorders are carried on the X chromosome and thus men actually get them more easily than women (haemophilia, colour blindness, baldness, just to name 3...). There is no way we are "equal" in all things, based on the above. Where we should be equal is in our RIGHTS. We all have the right to be loved, respected, honoured, fed, clothed, housed, etc.

 

[Randip Singh]

How does equality and diversity translate to women being subservient to men? Let's keep this discussion rational.

...to linzer, you think I've put my foot in it, I don't think I have at al. I could equally say you've put your foot in it by not understanding fundemental principles of equality and diversity.

The reality is women are different from men. There is considerable scientific reseacrh on this. The effects of oestrogen and testosterone on effects to the brain. Many other factors. To deny this is plainly ignorant. That does not mean to say men are better or worse, all it means is that we're different, but equal. Equality and Diversity.

Comparisons to Caste and the Panj Pyarey don't wash here either. There have never been bars to any caste or gender to Amrit. All I'm saying is women don't have to keep a turban and a beard. Those are were considered symbols of manliness, i.e. those that only the Rajputs kept and were passed by the 10th master to the so called lower eschillons of society.

In terms of feminity - acknowledging you are a woman with all its ADVANTAGES is what I would call being proud of your femininty. Baba Nanak sums it up here nicely:

From woman, man is born;within woman, man is conceived; to woman he is engaged and married.
Woman becomes his friend; through woman, the future generations come.
When his woman dies, he seeks another woman; to woman he is bound.
So why call her bad? From her, kings are born.
From woman, woman is born; without woman, there would be no one at all.''
Guru Nanak, Raag Aasaa Mehal 1, Page 473

Now this does not in my eyes include the Western view where women are viewed as pieces of meat. If however, a woman chooses to remove her hair because she wishes to do so (not because of norms in that particular culture), she should be allowed to do so. I simply don't think the hair requirement applies to a woman.

Now that's my view. If you don't like it, tough.

 

[linzer]

Now this does not in my eyes include the Western view where women are viewed as pieces of meat.

Guru ji was speaking against the way women regarded in the East, a truly revolutionary thought at the time, east or west then as well as now.
I really don't think the West has a monopoly on treating women badly.

As for hair , what's sauce for the gander serves for the goose as well. Rules are rules.:noticemunda:

 

[Harkiran Kaur]

How does equality and diversity translate to women being subservient to men?

Unfortunately, that very statement "equal but different" HAS been used to justify putting women into subordinate positions... For ages, men have asserted that the women's lack of 'apparent' physical strength in general to that of men's must mean that women are incapable of leadership positions and that the physical differences mean that women REQUIRE men's 'protection'. This protection usually entails severe restrictions on women, and lack of freedoms that men openly enjoy. So my point about subservience stands...

The reality is women are different from men. There is considerable scientific reseacrh on this. The effects of oestrogen and testosterone on effects to the brain. Many other factors. To deny this is plainly ignorant. That does not mean to say men are better or worse, all it means is that we're different, but equal. Equality and Diversity.

Again, "different but equal" means nothing, when that 'difference' justifies putting one at a disadvantage to the other.

Comparisons to Caste and the Panj Pyarey don't wash here either. There have never been bars to any caste or gender to Amrit. All I'm saying is women don't have to keep a turban and a beard. Those are were considered symbols of manliness

I hunbly disagree... Sri Guru Granth Sahib JiJ on page 1084 (I won't post the entire thing because it's not necessary to my point in this post...)

ਨਾਪਾਕ ਪਾਕੁ ਕਰਿ ਹਦੂਰਿ ਹਦੀਸਾ ਸਾਬਤ ਸੂਰਤਿ ਦਸਤਾਰ ਸਿਰਾ ॥੧੨॥
Nāpāk pāk kar haḏūr haḏīsā sābaṯ sūraṯ ḏasṯār sirā. ||12||
Purify what is impure, and let the Lord's Presence be your religious tradition. Let your total awareness be the turban on your head. ||12||

Unless instruction from Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji is aimed only at men, then turbans are instructed for everyone. Also, it is my understanding that the turban's purpose is severalfold... it's to manage and protect uncut hair, and both women and men are not to cut their hairs. It's also a part of the uniform of the khalsa... it was meant to be a symbol of equality in a time when only certain privelaged people were allowed to wear turbans. It was also meant for Sikhs to stand out and not be hidden in a crowd. How can an Amritdhari woman stand out in a crowd as a Sikh, if she wears a bandana? If she wears a chunni all the time, people will think she is a Muslim... most people in the West have no idea what a kara is, and kachera of course are hidden anyway.

The clause that turbans be 'optional' for women in the Rehet was created to draw more women to take Amrit. In my heart I truly believe that the turban was meant for both women and men... If they are both to be Khalsa, then they should both wear the full uniform that goes with that! I truly believe this even though I have not yet adopted wearing it full time. I am still learning how to tie it correctly, and have a bit of a fight to wear it in my military uniform so I may have to hold off until I am finished in the Navuy in 3 years and as much as I dont like it, stick to bandanas (or those mayan headbands the open fully to cover the top of my head) until that time when I can wear a dastar fuill time.

I fail to see how a turban makes ANY woman less feminine?? In fact, every female I have seen wearing one looks beautiful and very spiritual!!!

As for facial hair, I am a bit more open to the idea of removal... since women generally are not supposed to have any aside from the fine hairs that cover our entire bodies, and if a woman has a beard that makes some men envious, it is usually caused by a hormonal imbalance and a medical condition. Usually, it can be treated without removing the hairs themselves... with medication, which to me is not the same as dishonouring kesh... it's treating a medical issue with medication. Since there are other issues usually involved with leaving it untreated (such as acne, ovarian cysts, etc) leaving it untreated can actually cause harm. I am talking about serious facial growth not a tiny bit of darker hairs on the upper lips... which most women actually have and is normal! If no women removed it, it would just seem normal to everyone!

Leg Hair, underarm hair, thicker eyebrows, a tiny bit of upper lip hairs... my body is SUPPOSED to have them. So I resfuse to be stuck anymore in the endless cycle of shaving them off, itching while they regrow, shaving again... so I can conform to some ricidulous and invented fake ideal of 'feminine'.

Does this photo of a Singhni with turban and even a bit of upper lip hairs... look somehow unfeminine to you??

 

[Randip Singh]

Unfortunately, that very statement "equal but different" HAS been used to justify putting women into subordinate positions... For ages, men have asserted that the women's lack of 'apparent' physical strength in general to that of men's must mean that women are incapable of leadership positions and that the physical differences mean that women REQUIRE men's 'protection'. This protection usually entails severe restrictions on women, and lack of freedoms that men openly enjoy. So my point about subservience stands...



Again, "different but equal" means nothing, when that 'difference' justifies putting one at a disadvantage to the other.



I hunbly disagree... Sri Guru Granth Sahib JiJ on page 1084 (I won't post the entire thing because it's not necessary to my point in this post...)

ਨਾਪਾਕ ਪਾਕੁ ਕਰਿ ਹਦੂਰਿ ਹਦੀਸਾ ਸਾਬਤ ਸੂਰਤਿ ਦਸਤਾਰ ਸਿਰਾ ॥੧੨॥
Nāpāk pāk kar haḏūr haḏīsā sābaṯ sūraṯ ḏasṯār sirā. ||12||
Purify what is impure, and let the Lord's Presence be your religious tradition. Let your total awareness be the turban on your head. ||12||

Unless instruction from Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji is aimed only at men, then turbans are instructed for everyone. Also, it is my understanding that the turban's purpose is severalfold... it's to manage and protect uncut hair, and both women and men are not to cut their hairs. It's also a part of the uniform of the khalsa... it was meant to be a symbol of equality in a time when only certain privelaged people were allowed to wear turbans. It was also meant for Sikhs to stand out and not be hidden in a crowd. How can an Amritdhari woman stand out in a crowd as a Sikh, if she wears a bandana? If she wears a chunni all the time, people will think she is a Muslim... most people in the West have no idea what a kara is, and kachera of course are hidden anyway.

The clause that turbans be 'optional' for women in the Rehet was created to draw more women to take Amrit. In my heart I truly believe that the turban was meant for both women and men... If they are both to be Khalsa, then they should both wear the full uniform that goes with that! I truly believe this even though I have not yet adopted wearing it full time. I am still learning how to tie it correctly, and have a bit of a fight to wear it in my military uniform so I may have to hold off until I am finished in the Navuy in 3 years and as much as I dont like it, stick to bandanas (or those mayan headbands the open fully to cover the top of my head) until that time when I can wear a dastar fuill time.

I fail to see how a turban makes ANY woman less feminine?? In fact, every female I have seen wearing one looks beautiful and very spiritual!!!

As for facial hair, I am a bit more open to the idea of removal... since women generally are not supposed to have any aside from the fine hairs that cover our entire bodies, and if a woman has a beard that makes some men envious, it is usually caused by a hormonal imbalance and a medical condition. Usually, it can be treated without removing the hairs themselves... with medication, which to me is not the same as dishonouring kesh... it's treating a medical issue with medication. Since there are other issues usually involved with leaving it untreated (such as acne, ovarian cysts, etc) leaving it untreated can actually cause harm. I am talking about serious facial growth not a tiny bit of darker hairs on the upper lips... which most women actually have and is normal! If no women removed it, it would just seem normal to everyone!

Leg Hair, underarm hair, thicker eyebrows, a tiny bit of upper lip hairs... my body is SUPPOSED to have them. So I resfuse to be stuck anymore in the endless cycle of shaving them off, itching while they regrow, shaving again... so I can conform to some ricidulous and invented fake ideal of 'feminine'.

Does this photo of a Singhni with turban and even a bit of upper lip hairs... look somehow unfeminine to you??

Sorry but if you can't accept that people are different and men and women are different then I can't debate with you! (euality and diversity)

Why aren't women called Singh as well as men? Why give them a different title? Why aren't men called Kaur? Was the 10th Master trying to make women somehow subservient? <<<sounds pretty absurd ehh? ..but that is exactly the argument you make above.

There is no instruction for a turban for a woman anywhere. Lets dispel this myth. Now if groups like AKJ want to create they're own Maryada then that is up to them (again equality and diversity) . ....but lets not try and make up Sikh Rehat Maryadad on the hoof.

You've just done the classic and taken 2 lines of shabad out of context and totally distorted its meaning. Here is the whole shabad:

http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.gurbani?Action=Page&Param=1084&english=t&id=46516#l46516


He alone is a Qazi, who practices the Truth.

He alone is a Haji, a pilgrim to Mecca, who purifies his heart.

He alone is a Mullah, who banishes evil; he alone is a saintly dervish, who takes the Support of the Lord's Praise. ||6||

Always, at every moment,

remember God, the Creator within your heart.

Let your meditation beads be the subjugation of the ten senses. Let good conduct and self-restraint be your circumcision. ||7||

You must know in your heart that everything is temporary.

Family, household and siblings are all entanglements.

Kings, rulers and nobles are mortal and transitory; only God's Gate is the permanent place. ||8||

First, is the Lord's Praise; second, contentment;

third, humility, and fourth, giving to charities.

Fifth is to hold one's desires in restraint. These are the five most sublime daily prayers. ||9||

Let your daily worship be the knowledge that God is everywhere.

Let renunciation of evil actions be the water-jug you carry.

Let realization of the One Lord God be your call to prayer; be a good child of God - let this be your trumpet. ||10||

Let what is earned righteously be your blessed food.

Wash away pollution with the river of your heart.

One who realizes the Prophet attains heaven. Azraa-eel, the Messenger of Death, does not cast him into hell. ||11||

Let good deeds be your body, and faith your bride.

Play and enjoy the Lord's love and delight.

Purify what is impure, and let the Lord's Presence be your religious tradition. Let your total awareness be the turban on your head. ||12||

To be Muslim is to be kind-hearted,

and wash away pollution from within the heart.

He does not even approach worldly pleasures; he is pure, like flowers, silk, ghee and the deer-skin. ||13||

One who is blessed with the mercy and compassion of the Merciful Lord,

is the manliest man among men.

He alone is a Shaykh, a preacher, a Haji, and he alone is God's slave, who is blessed with God's Grace. ||14||

The Creator Lord has Creative Power; the Merciful Lord has Mercy.

The Praises and the Love of the Merciful Lord are unfathomable.

Realize the True Hukam, the Command of the Lord, O Nanak; you shall be released from bondage, and carried across. ||15||3||12|


I guess all women need to be Muslim as well, if we take your literal meaning


We are all different. For example my brother is a brilliant musician, I am not. That makes him different from me. Does it make him better than me? Hell no.

regarding the picture...too me a woman with a beard and a moustache is not feminine, but that's my view. If that woman is comfortable with that and isn't being pressured into it than that is fine too.

 

[Ishna]

I simply don't think the hair requirement applies to a woman.

All I'm saying is women don't have to keep a turban and a beard.

Can you produce a source where the rules have been given separately for women and men, please?

So far, the only point of difference I'm aware of is the name 'Kaur'.

The Sikh Rehat Maryada says a Sikh woman can choose to wear a turban or not and there isn't a similar sentence about women choosing to keep their hair or not.

The requirement for turban isn't stipulated in the amrit sanchar but the requirement to keep hair is, and it isn't gender specific.

So exactly who is generating maryada on the hoof I'm not sure.

 

[Harkiran Kaur]

Randip: I can't say any better than they do in this article...
link: http://www.sikhanswers.com/sikh-articles-of-faith-identity/sikh-women-turban-dastaar/

To Sikhs, the turban is more than what is a crown to a king or queen. The Sikh Gurus showed a great respect to the turban. But there is a misconception that only men are required to wear the turban. The Guru has graced both men and women with the spiritual crown that not only protects the Kesh (unshorn hair) and Dasam Duaar (tenth spiritual Gate on the top of the forehead) but also gives the Khalsa (both male & female) a unique & distinct identity. Wearing a turban makes a difference and a statement. It saves you! You are out off time and space – it is the uniform of heaven, not of the world’s belongings… We are here to master time and space – not to run after it. Your projection create the world around you – not how it will look in the eyes of others. You stay focused and for a woman it is the most important thing of all to hold the focus and the direction. Wearing bana (khalsa uniform) and the 5 K’s every day makes you stay in touch with our beloved Gurus and you are the Grace of God your whole life long!
The first quote is from Guru Granth Sahib Ji. Guru Ji says:
ਨਾਪਾਕ ਪਾਕੁ ਕਰਿ ਹਦੂਰਿ ਹਦੀਸਾ ਸਾਬਤ ਸੂਰਤਿ ਦਸਤਾਰ ਸਿਰਾ ॥੧੨॥
“Purify what is impure, and let the Lord’s Presence be your religious tradition. Let your total awareness be the turban on your head. ||12||
(Ang 1084)


A Sikh lady wearing the “Dastaar” (Sikh crown)
“Sabat Soorat Dastar Sira” means, “Let your total awareness be the turban on your head.” This clearly states that a Sikh is instructed to live a natural life and have unshorn hair, and to protect and keep those hair clean he/she must wear a Dastaar on his/her head. This line does not make an exception to women. Sikh Gurus gave women equal rights. Both men and women are given the same message, which means the above line implies to both not only to men. If we are Sikhs of Guru Granth Sahib Ji then we must wear a Dastaar, no matter if you are male or female.
Guru Gobind Singh Ji and Rehatnaame (codes of conduct) make very clear points about women wearing Dastaar. Guru Gobind Singh Ji said:
ਜਬ ਲਗ ਖਾਲਸਾ ਰਹੇ ਨਿਆਰਾ, ਤਬ ਲਗ ਤੇਜ ਦੀਓ ਮੈ ਸਾਰਾ ॥
“As long as Khalsa preserves its uniqueness and follows the path of true Guru I will bless them with all of my powers.”
This clearly shows that Khalsa must have its uniqueness, which means to have that uniqueness one must have a Dastaar on his/her head. Furthermore, when Bhai Jait Mal Ji presented the head of Guru Tegh Bahadur Ji to Guru Gobind Singh Ji, Guru Ji said “I will give my Sikh a distinct and unique appearance, which will be recognized while standing in millions”. This uniqueness comes from following the path of Sikhi, which is to have unshorn hair and wearing Dastaar on the head. One can easily recognize a Sikh by looking at a appearance most of which does come from the Dastaar. Guru Ji did not say that he would give uniqueness only to men. When Guru Ji said “Khalsa” he meant men and women both. Men and women both are Khalsa. Guru Ji gave the same Rehat Maryada (code of discipline), same uniqueness, same message, same articles of faith, same religious Bana (dress) and same rights, then how is it that women are excluded in some quarters from wearing the Dastaar. Guru Ji made no distinction and referred to men and women as Khalsa, and instructed them to wear a Dastar. In above line the word “Niaara” clearly means different from others, and it does imply wearing a Dastaar. It doesn’t say only men have to be “Niaara”.
Furthermore, Guru Gobind Singh Ji said:
ਖਾਲਸਾ ਮੇਰੋ ਰੂਪ ਹੈ ਖਾਸ ॥
“Khalsa is my own self image.”
Again, Khalsa means men and women both. Guru Ji did not make two different Sikhs or Khalsa. He made one Sikh and there can only be one type or kind of Sikh. There is only one Khalsa. Women make different hair styles, color their hair, and tie them in a bun at the nape of the neck, which is prohibited. Those women in this shape are nowhere near Guru Gobind Singh Ji’s image. Guru Ji always wore a Dastaar. Not only did Guru Gobind Singh Ji, but also all of the other nine Gurus practiced wearing a Dastaar. So how are women who dye their hair keeping the “Roop” (image) of Guru Gobind Singh Ji? Simply put, they are not! Guru Ji had one image not two. Guru Ji had unshorn hair and wore a Dastaar. Women without a Dastaar do not even come close to that image. When those women look in the mirror, do they see Guru Gobind Singh Ji? I don’t think so. The Dastaar is a sign of dignity. Men still have their dignity but where is the women’s dignity? They have lost it to fashion. Not many Sikh women wear a Dastaar but their numbers are steadily growing. Even white Sikhs men and women wear Dastaars. Women must wear the turban as instructed by Guru Ji himself because that’s what makes them unique and an image of Guru Ji.
The renowned Panthic writer Kavi Santokh Singh Jee in his Granth, Gur Pratap Sooraj mentions the Hukam Sri Guru Gobind Singh gave to Mata Bhaag Kaur. Mata Jee had reached a very high spiritual state and had stopped wearing clothes. The Singhs complained to Dasmesh Pitha Jee, who summoned Mata Bhaag Kaur. Kavi Santokh Singh records the Hukam Guru Sahib gave to Mata Jee:
ਗਰੁਵੀ ਸਾਂਗ ਹਾਥ ਮਹਿ ਧਰੈ,
ਸਦਾ ਆਨੰਦ ਏਕ ਰੱਸ ਥਿਰੈ।
ਕੇਤਕ ਮਾਸ ਨਗਨ ਜਬ ਰਹੀ,
ਇਕ ਦਿਨ ਦੇਖ ਨਿਕਟ ਗੁਰ ਕਹੀ।
ਸੁਨ ਮਾਈ ਭਾਗ ਕੌਰ ਸਚਿਆਰੀ,
ਕੁਲ ਨੈਨਹਿ ਸਸੁਰਾਰਿ ਉਬਾਰੀ।
ਪਰਮ ਹੰਸ ਅਵਸਥਾ ਪਾਈ।
ਤੁਝ ਕੋ ਦੋਸ ਨਾ ਲਗੈ ਕਦਾਈ।
ਰਹਿਨ ਦਿਗੰਬਰ ਤੁਝ ਬਨਿ ਆਈ।
ਇਕ ਰਸ ਬਿਰਤੀ ਭਈ ਲਿਵ ਲਾਈ।
ਤਨ ਹੰਤਾ ਸਭ ਰਿਦੈ ਬਿਨਾਸੀ।
ਪਾਇੳ ਪਰਮ ਰੂਪ ਅਬਿਨਾਸੀ।
ਤਊ ਸੰਗ ਤੂ ਰਹਿਤ ਹਮਾਰੇ।
ਪਹਿਰਿ ਕਾਛ, ਲਘੁ ਸਿਰ ਦਸਤਾਰੇ।

(ਰੁਤਿ 3, ਅੰਸੂ 22, ਜਿਲਦ 14, ਫੰਨਾ 3068)
In this Historic account the mention of Dastaar Rehat is clear. Having reached the spiritual state of “Param Hans” in this intoxicated state Mata Bhaag Kaur had stopped wearing clothes. When Guru Sahib ordered her to keep her body covered he specifically mentioned the Rehat of Dastaar as well. Was this Hukam necessary if Guru Sahib didn’t consider a Dastaar to be mandatory for both Sikh men and women? Not only did Guru Sahib order a Bibi at such a high Avastha to cover herself but to wear a Dastaar as well, putting the Dastaar at the same level as the Kachhera and the rest of the Kakkars ( Guru Sahib also mentions to wear a Kachhera in the Hukam).

Right up to the reign of Maharaja Ranjit Singh, Sikh women had been steadfast in following the edicts of the Satguru (True Guru) in respect to their spiritual inner life as well as dress, including the Dastaar. That is what J. D. Cunningham himself saw and wrote in the middle of the Nineteenth Century when he wrote his book, ‘History of the Sikhs’. He writes: “The Sikh women are distinguished from Hindus of their sex by some variety of dress but chiefly by a higher top knot of hair.” Even after the Panjab came under the British rule, the Dastaar was conspicuously seen in the case of Sikh women as well as men right up till the Gurdwara movement and the establishment of the Shiromani Gurudwara Prabandhak Committee in 1926. Until then, no one – men or women were allowed initiation (by taking Amrit) at Sri Akaal Takhat Sahib without a Dastaar. At the end of the nineteenth century and the beginning of the present one, as a result of the Sikh renaissance movement, a number of Khalsa schools for girls were established in Punjab. A small Dastaar was prescribed as an obligatory head dress for students as well as for teachers in such schools at Jaspalon, Ferozepur and Sidhwan in Punjab.
Many famous Rehatnaame also support wearing of Dastaar. Here are some quotes:
ਪਹਿਲੇ ਕਛ ਪਹਰਾਨੀ, ਕੇਸ਼ ਇਕੱਠੇ ਕਰ ਜੂੜਾ, ਦਸਤਾਰ ਸਜਾਵਨੀ, ਗਾਤ੍ਰੇ ਸ੍ਰੀ ਸਾਹਬ ਹਾਥ ਜੋੜਿ ਖੜਾ ਰਹੈ ।
“Each candidate for Baptism be made to wear kachera, tie hair in a topknot and cover the same with Dastaar; wear Sri Sahib (Kirpan) in Gatra (shoulder belt). Then he/she should stand with folded hands.”
(Rehatnama Bhai Daya Singh Ji)
“…Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa should keep hair unshorn, have flowing beard and have simple Dastaar which saves from impiety. Then the Sikhs asked what would happen to those Amritdhari who start cutting their hair or do not keep their hair covered. The Guru replied that they would be stupid and would lose their sensibility. It is a blemish to remain bareheaded…Always keep two turbans. When the bigger turban is removed, the smaller be kept. The smaller turban should not be removed.”
(Bijai Mukat Dharam Shastra – Sakhi-8)
ਪਾਗ ਉਤਾਰਿ ਪ੍ਰਸਾਦਿ ਜੋ ਖਾਵੇ, ਸੋ ਸਿੱਖ ਕੁੰਭੀ ਨਰਕ ਸਿਧਾਵੇ।
“(A Sikh) who eats food with turban removed from the head (i.e., Bareheaded) is destined for ‘Kumbhi’ (hell).”
(Rehatnama Bhai Prahlad Singh Ji)
ਕੰਘਾ ਦੋਨਉ ਵਕਤ ਕਰ ਪਾਗ ਚੁਨਹਿ ਕਰ ਬਾਂਧਈ ।
ਦਾਸਨ ਨੀਤ ਕਰੇਇ ਨਾ ਦੁਖ ਪਾਵੈ ਲਾਲ ਜੀ ।
“One who combs hair twice a day, ties turban fold by fold and cleans teeth daily will not come to grief.”
(Tankhah Naama Bhai Nand Lal Ji)
ਨਗਨ ਹੋਇ ਬਾਹਰ ਫਿਰਿਹ, ਨਗਨ ਸੀਸ ਜੋ ਖਾਇ ।
ਨਗਨ ਪ੍ਰਸਾਦਿ ਜੋ ਬਾਟਈ, ਤਨਖਾਹੀ ਬਡੋ ਕਹਾਇ ।
“Whosoever roams about bareheaded, takes food bareheaded
and distributes the ‘prasad’ bareheaded is considered punishable.”
(Uttar-prashan Bhai Nand Lal Ji)
ਪਹਿਲੇ ਕਛ ਪਹਰਾਨੀ, ਕੇਸ਼ ਇਕੱਠੇ ਕਰ ਜੂੜਾ, ਦਸਤਾਰ ਸਜਾਵਨੀ, ਗਾਤ੍ਰੇ ਸ੍ਰੀ ਸਾਹਬ ਹਾਥ ਜੋੜਿ ਖੜਾ ਰਹੈ ।
“Each candidate for Baptism be made to wear kachera, tie hair in a topknot and cover the same with Dastaar; wear Sri Sahib (Kirpan) in Gatra (shoulder belt). Then he/she should stand with folded hands.”
(Rehatnama Bhai Daya Singh Ji) – Ref: Piara Singh Padam, “Rehitnamay”, p. 68.
ਜੂੜਾ ਸੀਸ ਕੇ ਮੱਧ ਭਾਗ ਮੈਂ ਰਾਖੇ, ਔਰ ਪਾਗ ਬੜੀ ਬਾਂਧੇ,ਕੇਸ ਢਾਂਪ ਰਖੇ,
ਕੰਘਾ ਦਵੈ ਕਾਲ ਕਰੇ, ਪਾਗ ਚੁਨ ਕੇ ਬਾਂਧੇ । (ਰਹਿਤਨਾਮਾ ਭਾਈ ਦਇਆ ਸਿੰਘ)
“The “Jooraa” (hair knot) should be on the centre top of the head, and a turban should be tied, the kesh should be kept covered, twice a day the hair should be combed, and the turban should be removed layer by layer.”
(Rehatnama Bhai Daya Singh Ji)
ਜੂੜਾ ਸੀਸ ਕੇ ਮੱਧ ਭਾਗ ਮੈਂ ਕਰੇ, ਇਸਤ੍ਰੀਓ ਕਾ ਜੂੜਾ ਲੰਬਾ ਨਾ ਕਰਾਵੈ ।
“Women should tie their hair in topknot and should not keep them loose.”
(Rehatnama Bhai Daya Singh Ji)
“Keshas be washed. Turban or Dastaar should not be placed on floor but should always be kept with due respect. Food should not be eaten bareheaded.”
(Bijai Mukt Dharam Shastra, Sakhi 70)

It is thus, absolutely clear from the above quotations that remaining bareheaded at any time (except when washing, drying, and combing the hair) and keeping hair loose and unknotted are basically against the Sikh Code of Conduct, which is applicable to all, men and women alike. For obvious reasons, therefore, the use of Dastaar is indispensable. There is no other way to keep the head covered all the time. Sikh women who wear only dupattas, mostly remain bareheaded, especially in the privacy of their own homes, while taking food, etc., and thus are, perhaps unconsciously, infringing the Sikh Code of Conduct in this respect.

 

[Harkiran Kaur]

And on the removing hair issue:
link: http://www.esikhs.com/articles/women_facial_hair_issues.htm

In this modern era of human society, it has become nearly a mandatory expectation that women have a clean face, free from facial hair. Whether it is because of the ideal women portrayals from Hollywood, Bollywood, fashion, or commercial advertisements, it has indeed become an increasingly growing problem for young women who aspire to be true Sikhs one day, and obtain Khande ki Pahul Amrit from the Panj Pyare.

Even Punjab has become home to countless beauty parlors as increasing numbers of women are opting for facial hair jobs, to mention the number of young women from Sikh families who are taking beauty parlor courses.

From a sociological perspective, we feel obligated to surrender ourselves to the norms of the dominant society we live in. Within the dominant culture exist many small subcultures often viewd as extremists, outcasts, simply weird or "uncool" because by their mere existence challenge the dominant norm. We are constantly evaluating another person’s impression of us. We often develop our self image based on how others perceive us.

As a result, we are consumed with the thought that facial hair is not normal, and go to great lengths to conform to the norms of our parents, family, and ambient culture we live in:

dunIAw kwrix dInu gvwieAw ]5]
dhuneeaa kaaran dheen gavaaeiaa ||5||
For the sake of the world, people have lost their faith. ||5||
(Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji, Ang 1410)

However, it is a mandatory requirement for any Sikh to maintain his unshorn. It is a bujjar kurehat (cardinal sin) to alter the body’s hair by means such as shaving, waxing, trimming, plucking, dying, etc. Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji says on Ang 443:

romy roim roim romy mY gurmuiK rwmu iDAwey rwm ]
romae rom rom romae mai guramukh raam dhhiaaeae raam ||
With each and every hair, with each and every hair, as Gurmukh, I meditate on the Lord.

Many Sikh women do not realize the consequences of hair removal from the body. It is a most difficult sacrifice for someone who has already evolved somewhat in Sikhi to leave their known life and present themselves in front of the Panj Pyare to receive Amrit. That former life will die to be replaced by the new life of a Gursikh which requires great effort and obedience. A person who surrenders themselves completely to the Guru should obey every hukam (command) to the best of his or her ability. Only a person with such understanding realizes the consequences of stepping back and following the orders of self-willed Manmukhs.

A Sikh who bends to the pressures of society will also experience a downfall in their spirituality which can eventually lead to severe depression and a sense of confusion. They may lose the sense of belonging because what they value most was taken away from them. Feelings of lost purpose or mission in life, severe depression, confusion, and the lack of interest in one’s life can lead one to become suicidal. One can ponder," What’s the point to this life if we can’t even live by the principles of Sikhism? " However, the Gurus rejected suicide as a solution to one’s problems. Countless Sikhs have been martyred when they could have easily killed themselves to avoid the pain of torture. The Gurus instead ask the Sikh to turn to Gurbani and Simran to seek solace and regain a foothold on the path.

Although many men who aspire to be Sikhs face discrimination by keeping a full beard, it is just as equally challenging for women today. Young women are being forced by their parents to consider electrolysis and other hair removal techniques that they be more marriageable. These procedures are expensive, tedious, and painful and they are not 100% permanent as some people assume. New follicles are regenerated by the skin in a few years and if it is done improperly it can cause infection, skin damage, and even partial to fuller regrowth of the hair. Surprisingly, we are still willing to take the risk and undergo the procedure.

Parents who fear they will not find a suitable match for their daughter if she has facial hair need to ask themselves a few common sense questions. Firstly, realize that by removing hair we prove to ourselves that we do not have full faith in our Guru. How will we ever know if our son-in-laws are truly Sikhs at heart if we never give them the opportunity to see our daughters with their God-given natural face? How can we marry our daughters to men who can not look beyond the skin? It is a huge mistake on our part as Sikh parents to wish our daughters to commit such an act of cardinal sin. Bhai Nand Lal Ji’s Thankhaanama warns:

gur bcn isau qUtw jwie ] drgih qWkau imlY sjwie]15]
gur bachan sio thoottaa jaae || dharagehi thaa(n) ko milai sajaaei||15||
Those who turn away from their responsibility to accept the Guru's orders will receive punishment in God's Court.

So whose orders are more beneficial to follow: the superficial, who are in love with the temporary things in life or those who will advise you correctly and lead you towards the right path of being a successful Sikh?

jy qUM qwrU pwix qwhU puCu iqVMn@ kl ]
jae thoo(n) thaaroo paan thaahoo pushh thirra(n)nh kal ||
If you wish to swim across the water, then consult those who know how to swim.

qwhU Kry sujwx vMw eyn@I kprI ]3]
thaahoo kharae sujaan va(n)n(j)aa eaenhee kaparee ||3||
Those who have survived these treacherous waves are very wise. ||3||

JV JKV EhwV lhrI vhin lKysrI ]
jharr jhakharr ouhaarr leharee vehan lakhaesaree ||
The storm rages and the rain floods the land; thousands of waves rise and surge.

siqgur isau Awlwie byVy fubix nwih Bau ]4]
sathigur sio aalaae baerrae dduban naahi bho ||4||
If you cry out for help from the True Guru, you have nothing to fear - your boat will not sink. ||4||
(Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji, Ang 1410)

It has become clear that regardless of how much parents enforce their desires or threaten loss of privileges, it is our duty as Sikh men and women to obey the highest hukam given to us by our Gurus which overrides all other worldly demands. And as Sikh parents we need to understand our crucial obligation to educate and expose our children from the cradle onwards and take our children to the Gurdwara Sahib to Gurujee and sangat. It would morally reprehensible to force our children to step away from that Guru’s doorway and force them instead to follow shallow norms in conflict with our Guru’s teachings.

 

[spnadmin]

Disclaimer: SPN cannot vouch for the accuracy of content posted from external sources on the Internet. Material posted is the opinion of the authors/s.

 

[Randip Singh]

Can you produce a source where the rules have been given separately for women and men, please?

So far, the only point of difference I'm aware of is the name 'Kaur'.

The Sikh Rehat Maryada says a Sikh woman can choose to wear a turban or not and there isn't a similar sentence about women choosing to keep their hair or not.

The requirement for turban isn't stipulated in the amrit sanchar but the requirement to keep hair is, and it isn't gender specific.

So exactly who is generating maryada on the hoof I'm not sure.

On the hair point my view is in conflict with the view of the current Rehat Maryada.

It stipulates that hair should not be plucked, shaved burnt etc etc.

...and please don't accuse me of creating Maryada , like I said, it's my view, and if you don't like it. Tough. :motherlove:

 

[Randip Singh]

Randip: I can't say any better than they do in this article...
link: http://www.sikhanswers.com/sikh-articles-of-faith-identity/sikh-women-turban-dastaar/

.

The site quotes the following:

The questions and answers on Sikhanswers.com are largely taken from information obtained from “Sikh Question & Answers” by late Bhai Gobind Singh Mansukhani, www.GurmatBibek.com and www.Tapoban.org, which

Sounds like AKJ kind of stuff. They believe that Kesh actually means Keski. They are ntitled to their view. I disagree with that view.

One thing I will say, and please don't be offended. Posting one liners from Bani distorts Bani. There is an article here called "Fools Who Wrangle Over Flesh" that tackles this issue head on.

Please do not fall into that trap.

 

[Ishna]

On the hair point my view is in conflict with the view of the current Rehat Maryada.

Thank you for acknowledging that your own opinion is contrary to the Rehat Maryada.

 

[ExploringSikhi]

Does this photo of a Singhni with turban and even a bit of upper lip hairs... look somehow unfeminine to you??

I just want to say that, coming from a Greek and Italian background, I have never had a lack of body hair and so maybe it is just me, but I don't see any problem with a woman having a bit of extra hair on her arms/legs/face etc... I have been exposed to it my whole life.

I think the girl in the picture is cute, she has nice eyes and a pretty smile, if she had a nice personality to go along with it I wouldn't complain at all, the extra hair makes no difference to me.

 

[ExploringSikhi]

We were not intended to be "equal" in all things. We are *superior* in some, such as above, and inferior in others, such as general physical strength (as a group, not saying that one individual woman can't be stronger than one individual man, since she often can...).

50 + 50 = 10 x 10

They are equal to each other, but still different.

You have hit the nail on the head, there are certain things women will never be able to do better than men just like there are certain things men will never be able to do better than women (on average). There is a lot of talk about accepting hukam (will of the creator?)/the way you were born, accepting that you are better in some things and worse in others is a part of it.

The reality is women are different from men. There is considerable scientific reseacrh on this. The effects of oestrogen and testosterone on effects to the brain. Many other factors. To deny this is plainly ignorant. That does not mean to say men are better or worse, all it means is that we're different, but equal. Equality and Diversity.

Randip Ji, although I don't agree with everything you have said (which is fine, we are all entitled to our opinions and neither one is necessarily more right than the other), I do agree wholeheartedly with what you have said above. Male and female physical and psychological makeup is not the same, testeosterone is the main male sex hormone and estrogen is the main female sex hormone, therein lies the difference, and a very big difference it is indeed.

We are not the same, we were never meant to be the same, if we were, we wouldn't have 2 distinct genders, we would be asexual, androgynous, but we are not, , I do not see what is so wrong with accepting the way God made us and pointing out our obvious differences. Is this not a part of hukam?