- May 9, 2006
- 3,261
- 5,192
Proudly presenting... A Professor Sarbjit Singh Dhunda thread for your enjoyment: http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/hard-talk/36858-professor-sarbjit-singh-dhunda-4.html
*takes a bow*
*takes a bow*
i think this is what happened : Originally qualities were developed in individuals and an visible identity was given to them ( hairs etc ) , with time identity was given more emphasis then the quality and now in many cases it is just the identity ;-). In a way it is happening for good .. watching a turban guy with floating bearded :redturban: doing wrong deads is just a dark spot on the Sikh philosophy itself. These cycles of changes and revolutions will keep on coming and going .. dont worry , may be once people will be feed up from crappy stuff they will realize that a simple living is best living ;-).
Rajwinder ji,
Guru Fateh.
Pardon my ignorance but I am a bit confused by your post.
One must try to be outstanding as a person no matter what hue,creed or faith one belongs to. It is a humane thing to do. Yes, if one stands out, one's deeds either good or bad stand out as a laurel or a sore thumb but that is irrelevant because Selfless Deeds do not need any laurels. SGGS, our only Guru teaches us that. They are part of the second nature of a Sikh with or without the baana.
What kind of identity do Sikh women have except some wear dastaar like the Sikh men do?
Could you please elaborate what I have put in bold in your post so that I can understand what you mean?
Thanks and regards
Tejwant Singh
Abneet ji,
Guru Fateh.
Did Baba Mann Singh tell you about his anti Gurmat stance of Raaj or do you agree with him?
Where did he learn his preaching?
What do you find against Dhunda?
Have you listened to/watched/read about his Sikhi thoughts or is it just hearsay? Please clarify.
History can not be changed. I do not know where you got that from but Sikhi thought is always open for improvements. This is the reason we are called Sikhs.Pardon my ignorance, but I have no idea who gave you the impression that,
From my perspective it is to the contrary. I know many Gurdwaras with food pantries handing food to the poor who are mainly Latin and Blacks and the organisers of these pantries are young Sikhs. In my world, Sikhi is blossoming and for that one has to be the practitioner of Sikhi not just a chanter of Gurbani mindlessly.
Regarding Kathavachaks, everyone has their own opinions. Some who are too lazy to find the Sikhi path by themselves as it is their duty to believe every word of these snakeoil salesmen. Many years ago, I used to be with the Kathavachaks when I did not study Gurbani but was its great parrot and at that time Kathavachaks where "heaven" sent for me. I used to go, listen and try to hold on to every word they said as "god sent" in a very faithful manner and quote them during my discussions about "Sikhi". They became my St. Peter at the "Heavenly Gate" of this very life, my "Brokers of Sikhi", so to speak. They gave me the impression that they had some kind extra power and Ik Ong Kaar listened and talked to us through them provided one claims Ik Ong Kaar is a deity as sadly many Kathavachaks do which is nothing but false and an in hogwash.
After I started making my own effort as Gurbani commands us to do by studying, understanding and practicing Gurbani, I came to the realisation that Kathavachaks were not sharing their understandings of Gurbani but to the contrary. Almost all of them babble "Kachi Gurbani", self-concocted stories to justify why this and that is written by our Gurus. For those who are not aware of the word "Kachi" , it literally, means something that is not fully cooked, or shall we say cooked up in English.
That includes even the famous like Late Maskeen ji.
Tejwant Singh
Abneet
SPNer
- Apr 7, 2013
- 281
- 312
Baba Mann Singh was a devotee of Sant Isher RaraSahib Wale. I posted the other thread about Dhunda. Dhunda is form Gurmat Gian Missonary in Ludhiana which is known to distort Sikhi. I have nothing else to say about him. http://sikhsangat.org/2012/misguided-parchar-of-sarbjit-singh-dhunda-and-his-missionary-fellows/
You can like him Tejwant Singh I won't say anything bad at you listening to his talks.
Now you mention young Sikhs practicing Sikhi handing out food. Well thats nice but are they practicing Naam too? We can be Sikhs who give out food like a lot of Catholics who have no spiritual progress or we can be both and be strong and see Sikhi blossom and strengthen our sangat worldwide.
Abneet Singh ji,
Guru Fateh.
You still have not answered my question.
Why did you believe in the RAAJ thing from Baba Mann Singh who was a devotee of Sant Isher RaraSahib Wale according to you when he was teaching against the Gurbani from the Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji, our only Guru?
You insisted in the RAAJ thing for several posts with Harry until I jumped in. I thought you had studied Gurbani from the Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji about it.
Who is Sant Isher Singh and who gave him that title?
Is the title according to the Gurmat values of Sikhi in the Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji?
Isn't handing food to the needy practicing NAAM in the real sense? Why this prejudgment on your part?
We, as Sikhs can only judge ourselves, no one else.
What is your modus operandi of practicing NAAM according to you?
Please elaborate.
How can you judge The Catholics of their deeds and how do you know that they have no spiritual progress? Please elaborate with concrete examples.
This seems quite appalling to me because Gurmat values teach us to respect others' faiths.
Do you agree with the Gurmat values or not? If not, why not?
Known by whom to distort Sikhi?
Please give some concrete examples of your above claim.
Regards
Tejwant singh
Abneet
SPNer
- Apr 7, 2013
- 281
- 312
Dear Tejwant ji, when did Baba Mann Singh teached Anti-Gurmat views? I knew he had false allegations by the media too make him look bad, but he went to Akal Takht back in 2006 and was cleared. I would be interested if you can tell me his anti-gurmat views. What is his view of Raaj according to your sources?
We gave Sant Isher Singh Rarasahib wale that title. Only god knows who are the real sants, but I'm sure Baba Isher Singh is a Sant.
according to me Naam has to be experienced to understand it via Naam Simran. I have a strong belief Naam Simran reveals God's creation to you. Now for people of other religions they have their own version of naam of course.
But there is more to the definition of Naam which I posted in this thread which you should check out http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/sikh-sikhi-sikhism/42331-what-is-naam-6.html
Abneet Singh ji,
Guru Fateh.
Here is what you said in another post while praising Baba Mann Singh, you critisised Dhunda of not being a good katahvachak for the reasons known to you. You still have not claified what anti Gurmat things did Dhunda talk about?:
Then you admit that he said something anti Gurmat and that is why he was called to Akal Takhat. Can you give me some tangible proof of your following claim? What did he do and why was he called at Akal Takhat?
I thought you mentioned that Baba Mann Singh talked about Raaj. I stand corrected. Then you talk against the media about making things up for Baba Mann Singh and under the same breath you praise the media for talking ill about Dhunda.
So what is which and which is what?
Having said that, where did you get the RAAJ thing from which is totally anti Gurmat and you emphasised on it in several of your posts?
God is an Abrahamic term not applied to Sikhi because Ik Ong Kaar is not a deity. Ik Ong Kaar's creation is all around us. We are filled with awe and wow factors of Ik Ong Kaar by just looking around and praising Sikhs' deeds. But it seems for you distributing food to the needy by the kids is not right or you have not answered my questions about it.
Will await for that and about judging The Catholics or any other person in that case.
Who is 'WE' who gave the title to Isher Singh? Any proof of that or he concocted that himself as many do in the name of Me-ism rather than Sikhi?
What does Sant mean according to the Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji?
There is also a thread here regarding Ex- communication which is anti Gurmat and should be taken out from the SRM.
According to Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji, our only Guru:
Sabh Gobind hein, Gobind bin nahin koi.
If we follow Gurbani, then the question of Ex-communication should never arise.
Lastly, You have to educate me about your view of Naam Simran and what it entails and its modus operandi according to Gurbani.
Regards
Tejwant Singh
Guru Fateh.
Here is what you said in another post while praising Baba Mann Singh, you critisised Dhunda of not being a good katahvachak for the reasons known to you. You still have not claified what anti Gurmat things did Dhunda talk about?:
Then you admit that he said something anti Gurmat and that is why he was called to Akal Takhat. Can you give me some tangible proof of your following claim? What did he do and why was he called at Akal Takhat?
I thought you mentioned that Baba Mann Singh talked about Raaj. I stand corrected. Then you talk against the media about making things up for Baba Mann Singh and under the same breath you praise the media for talking ill about Dhunda.
So what is which and which is what?
Having said that, where did you get the RAAJ thing from which is totally anti Gurmat and you emphasised on it in several of your posts?
God is an Abrahamic term not applied to Sikhi because Ik Ong Kaar is not a deity. Ik Ong Kaar's creation is all around us. We are filled with awe and wow factors of Ik Ong Kaar by just looking around and praising Sikhs' deeds. But it seems for you distributing food to the needy by the kids is not right or you have not answered my questions about it.
Will await for that and about judging The Catholics or any other person in that case.
Who is 'WE' who gave the title to Isher Singh? Any proof of that or he concocted that himself as many do in the name of Me-ism rather than Sikhi?
What does Sant mean according to the Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji?
There is also a thread here regarding Ex- communication which is anti Gurmat and should be taken out from the SRM.
According to Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji, our only Guru:
Sabh Gobind hein, Gobind bin nahin koi.
If we follow Gurbani, then the question of Ex-communication should never arise.
Lastly, You have to educate me about your view of Naam Simran and what it entails and its modus operandi according to Gurbani.
Regards
Tejwant Singh
Abneet
SPNer
- Apr 7, 2013
- 281
- 312
Raaj is anti-gurmat? Enlighten me how Satyug will come and who will lead the world into Satyug. Raaj karega Khalsa, aaki rahi na koe. Why do we say this every Sunday at gurdwara? I guess we should take it out I guess lol.
I am no praiser of babas or sants. Sants are there to bring us closer to GGS. Sants are devotees of God who bring good to all people and bring them closer to God by doing service for example parchar. If they lead us to a different path then you should know if they are good or simply "fake". No doubt there are 16,000 fake Sants registered in Punjab but doesn't mean that there wasn't any real Sants left in the 20th century or today.
Click on my post on that thread of what is Naam Bhai Vir Singh summarizes what Naam Simran is to me.
Abneet ji,
Guru Fateh.
According to Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji, a Sikh wanting Raaj is anti Gurmat and I shared the verse with you with which you agreed. Please check it up again.
I know Bhai Vir Singh's writings very well. I wanted to know from your view point. Bhai Vir Singh was a great scholar of his time and he dedicated all his life for the Sikh Panth for which we are very grateful.
However, we are lucky to be Sikhs which is the only religion that evolves with time rather than stopped in time like other religions.
The first pauri of Jap is its proof which clearly states that there is no absolute truth but truth is absolute,hence fluid.
So, the scholars of yesteryears played an important roles to help us understand Sikhi for which we are thankful. You must be also aware that Bhai Vir Singh was also instrumental in concocting Hemkunt which has nothing to do with the Gurmat values.
Please explain the Yugs to me in a layman's term and I am still waiting for the meaning of Khalsa from you. I know they are "real" in Hindu Mythology but how does Sikhi relate to them and please explain what do you mean about Satyug in your post?
I do not know whether you are aware of it or not, many Gurdwaras do not use that verse during Ardaas anymore.
Regarding Yugs, following is my thought about it:
http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/spiritual-articles/20402-satyug-the-bowl-of-cherries.html
Thanks & regards
Tejwant Singh
- Jan 19, 2014
- 438
- 874
To me, "Raaj karega Khalsa" means rule by the pure. It has the same meaning as the Christian proverb "The meek shall inherit the earth". Meek not meaning weak, but rather kind-hearted. The remainder is "aakhi rahai nah koi. Khuaar hoi sabh milenge, bache sharan jo hoeh". None will remain opposed. Those who are separated will unite. The devotees shall be saved.
I believe this is what we see when we close our eyes and imagine peace on earth. It's the happy ending at the end of the movie. Everybody lives happily ever after.
As for Sants, I think that title only caught on recently. Our historic figures went by "Baba" or "Bhai" (unless I'm mistaken). In my opinion, adding the prefix Sant to someone's name should only be done posthumously, after their life's work is analyzed. Wearing that title while alive seems a bit pretentious.
I believe this is what we see when we close our eyes and imagine peace on earth. It's the happy ending at the end of the movie. Everybody lives happily ever after.
As for Sants, I think that title only caught on recently. Our historic figures went by "Baba" or "Bhai" (unless I'm mistaken). In my opinion, adding the prefix Sant to someone's name should only be done posthumously, after their life's work is analyzed. Wearing that title while alive seems a bit pretentious.
What is the definition of Raaj? Is it anti-gurmat to make a government of ours or are we born to be ruled by others?
Abneet
SPNer
- Apr 7, 2013
- 281
- 312
Raaj will happen for Sikhs. It is destined for Sikhs to happen. We Sikhs aren't going to be controlled by Hindus, Christians, or Muslims. We will have our own Raaj whether or not you see it as anti-gurmat. Sikhs have been betrayed enough in our history and to this day are still treated as second-class citizens in India. If you there is everlasting peace with Sikhs and Hindus in India better think again.
If Sikhs don't believe in Kalyug then what are we in at the moment?
Abneet ji,
Guru Fateh.
Now I understand what you mean by Raaj in a tangible way/a physical place whereas Raaj according to Gurbani is within. Each one of us is The Queen and The King, thanks to our visionary Gurus.
1.What is your view about Khalsitan then?
2.Where you live now, is it a Democracy and everyone,even the minorities have their say?
3.What do you understand by Kalyug according to only Sikhi?
Please do not use any Hindu mythology in your explanations as many Katahvaachaks do and are desperately trying to impose Hindutva on the Sikhs with their fairy tales and sugar coating of some myths. Sikhs have no mythology. It is a pragmatic way of life.
Please quote full shabads from the SGGS with your own understanding to educate me about Kalyug because the literal translations are quite misleading.
We are all here to learn which is a great thing.
Thanks and regards.
Tejwant Singh
Abneet
SPNer
- Apr 7, 2013
- 281
- 312
1) My view of Khalistan isn't so clear at this point but I can tell you it can't just be Punjab. Reasons for that is Punjab is currently a terrible state going through drug menace and the most Sikhs there are politics than for Sikh interests. Also if we get Punjab then we would be between two nuclear armed countries which would put us in a bad position. First of most, we need to resolve our gurdwaras, fix panthic issues, do massive parchar, then go over to Punjab and fix the issues over there. Punjab is in total ruins in terms of Sikhi being intact there, most of the upcoming generation are moving away from Sikhi. If Khalistan happens, it will be a democracy (lets hope) and Meri and Peri symbol has to play a part. The Punj Pyare will have a role too. We can't have any more traitors within our own Panth and we have to have unity most importantly. Khalistan can wait for awhile there are issues within our own community that are holding us down.
2) It is democracy but to me secretly oligarchy. Studies have been shown over the decades how money and greed buys power over people and so on. That is my own opinion and there has been a study by it. In terms of minorities, they do get their rights but sometimes are shunned when it comes to rights.
3) Kalyug is the Age of Darkness where most people's lives are being controlled by Panj Chor and are lost on that path with connecting with the Divine and even rejecting the belief of God. But in kalyug there is some light and those are the religious who are maintaining their faith. Now in order to get to Satyug, everyone has to become enlightened. Now in my own ideal, Khalsa will lead the way eventually, but other Sikhs see Raaj as peace among different religions and unity in the world. It could be the one way or another.
itsmaneet
SPNer
More the earthly knowledge in human grow, chances are faster the believe in God (Waheguru) will vanish...
Gyan Mati Ghati Chanana
Param Agyan Andher Mitaye...
Gyan Mati Ghati Chanana
Param Agyan Andher Mitaye...
Tejwant Singh Ji .. All i meant was that wearing Sikh items of faith without having qualities is doing no good. If these types of people are diminishing then i am not that worried about it. Crappy stuff just meant for things that people argue about related to physical appearance when their thought process is no better then garbage can.
aristotle
SPNer
Gurus frequently sent Sikh disciples to attain 'Worldly/Earthly' Knowledge from Nalanda, Kashi etc. Gurus appreciated attainment of any and every form of knowledge.
Sikhi is not a religion that is helpless before rationalism and inquisitiveness, in fact, the more questions you ask the more answers you'll get, and stronger your resolve in Sikhi and Akal Purakh will be.
It is not Eartly Knowledge but Haumai and lack of reasoning that takes a person away from Gurmat.
Rajwinder Singh ji,
Guru Fateh.
I agree. All human beings have to act, behave and live a fruitful positive life no matter what hue,creed and faith, with or without the outer appearance.
For example, Hasidic Jews, Hindus with tilaks with the suits on or with dhotis, women from India with Sarees or Salwaar kameez and the latter is also true for men, especially the Muslims, Mullahs with long cloaks and turbans, Catholic priests and Nuns and other members of the Christian clergy, Buddhists with their garbs and many many others.
All these people who stand out with their outer garb come under the same category as you mentioned above.
However, we Sikhs have the headstart to act in a positive way to make a difference in this world with the help of the Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji, our only Guru, our tool box, our manual where the term mind is used at least 4987 times (http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.gurbani?Action=Search&Param=english) in different scenarios, provided we use this tool box in the way the manual tells us to.
Having said that, in Sikhi we can only judge ourselves and must do our utmost to become better without pointing fingers at others.
Our own deeds are the best "billboards" of goodness to everyone else.
Regards
Tejwant Singh
itsmeet ji,
Guru Fateh.
Pardon my ignorance but I have no idea what you mean by the above. Sikh has to live the life of Miri- Piri and the former means earthly knowledge. Guru Nanak scolds the sidhs in Sidh Gosht for running away from the earthly knowledge.
Living a householder life and tackling everyday worldly problems of the family, earning an honest living to raise one's family as taught to us by Guru Nanak and by other Gurus is part and parcel of the earthly knowledge. Guru Nanak talks about the planets above us in Jap from this very earth and having a deep earthly knowledge.
Just for my own curiosity, did any katahvachak,sant, baba, derawala teach you what your mentioned in your post?
Regards
Tejwant Singh
📌 For all latest updates, follow the Official Sikh Philosophy Network Whatsapp Channel:
