Kala Afghana: Discussion Redux

[dalsingh]

You know Inder, If anyone needs to be excommunicated today it should be Mr Badal himself.

I don't know much about the opinions of Kala Afghana myself, but I do know that the Akal Takat has become a joke in the hands of the current "custodians" of the panth. So excommuncation is very likely to be politically motivated and not panthic these days.

The other thing I'd like to add regards the so-called 'Dasam Granth Controversy'. People have been debating the authenticity of the Dasam Granth a long time before any of us reading this were born. The truth is that the Singh Sabha Movement (the original one of Bhai Vir Singh's time) was largely responsible for a skeptical reception to the granth. As far I'm aware, no one was ever 'ex communicated' in previous debates of the Dasam Granth, so why has it suddenly become such a hot potatoe???

Could it be that certain controversial writers are now publicised and highlighted so that we are kept busy arguing over them and not the leeching corrupt leaders that sit on thrones juicing the quom for all it 's worth?

What do you think?

 

[Randip Singh]

Inder Singh ji,

Guru Fateh.

Thanks for finally responding but as usual your responses do not make any sense.

Let's try to decipher them a bit.

Your write:



Please share the above in details with us. When one asks the questions, give references with details not just vague responses.

.

Once again a vague response. Give details from SGGS to prove your point.



Once again the above response makes no sense. Initiated by whom? So you mean a new born baby in a Gursikh household in NOT a Sikh? Please explain. What is he or she then?

Please be specific in your responses.

Tejwant Singh

I concur we need more detailed responses since this topic deals with a serious issue.

I for one think excommunication is a serious thing and seems to have become a bit of a play thing for the SGPC.

 

[Inder singh]

Dal singh ji

I agree with you about Badal.

The other thing I'd like to add regards the so-called 'Dasam Granth Controversy'. People have been debating the authenticity of the Dasam Granth a long time before any of us reading this were born. The truth is that the Singh Sabha Movement (the original one of Bhai Vir Singh's time) was largely responsible for a skeptical reception to the granth. As far I'm aware, no one was ever 'ex communicated' in previous debates of the Dasam Granth, so why has it suddenly become such a hot potatoe???

Please provide a reference in support of your statement.There was never doubt about authenticity of Dasam Granth. Only Teja singh Bhasaur raised the issue and he was excommunicated. Bhag singh ambala was the next one and he was also excommunicated/

 

[Tejwant Singh]

Inder ji,

Guru Fateh,

Still waiting for the responses for my questions.

Interaction and learning about Gurmat values can only occur if you respond.

Tejwant Singh

 

[AdsKhalsa]

Re: Ardaas Changed

To know something about this anti sikh cult please see the video

Sikh Clips

Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa..Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh.......

Nice clips...really a wonderful clip...I think these missionaries seems to be dumb and fool...like me...who wanted to argue without reason...how can they say " HOW CAN YOU SAY EK IS ALL" so funny...I think that guy thinks that he himself is not one. either he himself is half..double .. So funny......
Guru Ji rightly said "Moorkhe naal na lujiye Kar gallan eho bujiye" ...today I understood the meaning exactly....Guru Ji is great..........

People like these have spoiled Guru's Sikhi.. These fools are going to suffer....lets see when they will...........

Thanks for link

Chardi Kala.....

 

[Inder singh]

Re: Ardaas Changed

COMMENT REMOVED


http://www.sikhclips.com/view_video.php?vi...507cacd8e2f2aef

 

[AdsKhalsa]

Re: Ardaas Changed

Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa ...Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh... Tejwant Singh Ji..

Reading your reply regarding Khalsa's Baana..I remembered one great katha by Gyani Amreek Singh Ji- Chandigarh Waale...on Khalsa Akal Purakh Ki Fauj..in detail explained what is this baana..why Khalsa.........

http://www.zshare.net/audio/60731321d8a4a60c/

zSHARE - VAISAKHI KATHA 2009 - 2.mp3

Chardi Kala.......

 

[Inder singh]

Re: Ardaas Changed

This video is not hate video. it exposes the slanders in real light as they have no knowledge of Gurmat.They are found floundering at every step.

 

[Inder singh]

Re: Ardaas Changed

some "Sikhs" will even go to the extent of misuse Waheguru Gurmantar

Kala afghana does not agree that waheguru is Gurmantra for sikhs. Good to note that some of his disciples do agree that waheguru is Gurmantra.

 

[Ajmer singh Randhawa]

Re: Ardaas Changed

Tejwant Singh ji,What i wrote didn't mean to hatred but to avoid the arguments without reason. i have earlier said that some people (you know) may agree the ultimate decision but aree compelled from their habits to not to accept by hearts, Guru Nanak Dev Ji has sais in "Asa di War" that 'Apradhi doona nivey Ridey kasudey jaye' means the offender shall bow many times in agreeing but by heart he will always opt to choose the other way.'
Thia is exactly the close associates of Kala Afgana , You and some other persons doing the same. When all the proves quoted, Photo copies provided about Dasam Granth, still you people asking the authentication. When Dasam Granth was compied in 1698, Guru Gobind Singh ji was alive and he has sighned on many Patras of it. Later on , The Baani of Dasam Granth or Chota Granth was taken care of by Bhai Mani Singh ji, whose hand written letter is enclosed even then you keep on uttering like parrot.
You people are offenders of Sikh Panth. 'Sab Gobind Hai.' true means is that Waheguru ji omnipresent. He is in thieves, and killers also but when a person commits a crime, Waheguru ji at once stops him but in selfishness when he insists to offend, Waheguru distances himself from the offender. In that case all the liability of the offence is solely of the offender, Waheguru or Gobind is not there.
So i can dare to say Waheguru ji is not with you people, search your hearts and find Waheguru ji if he is there. You people argue of changes in Ardas and favor it but do you know the power of Ardas? If it had been known to you, i am sure you would have bowed before it, not insisted to prove the wrong into right.
Gur fateh and Waheguru sumat bakhshe.
Ajmer Singh Randhawa.

 

[Gyani Jarnail Singh]

Re: Ardaas Changed

This video is not hate video. it exposes the slanders in real light as they have no knowledge of Gurmat.They are found floundering at every step.

Sant hari Singh Randhawawllah refused to debate with Jeonwallah and Prof darshan Singh.
He called Jeonwallah as "BELOW MY STANDARD"...and as to debating with Prof darshan Singh....he replied... dsm granth discussion is banned by Akal takhat...

Guru nanak Ji says..kicch sunneah kichh kaheah nanak... ASKING questions is not banned in Gurmatt. Claiming to have the ONE and ONLY answer is anti-gurmatt.

Rozana Spokesman Online........

 

[Gyani Jarnail Singh]

Re: Ardaas Changed

Kala afghana does not agree that waheguru is Gurmantra for sikhs. Good to note that some of his disciples do agree that waheguru is Gurmantra.

Its equally good to note that EK Oangkaar is making decisions through some posters..as to who is what and what he believes in....When EK oangkaar delegate his authority to find out who is whose follower/disciple ??

I Believe that WAHEGURU is GURMANTAR...but dont beleive that by SHOUTING "Waheguru wahegur loudly and continously" to DISRUPT a Gurdwara DIWAN where SGGS is PRESENT and Sangt is SEATED and then Stand up and RIOT is using the Gurmantar the right way.
Also parrotting never did any one any good...GURBANI is a TOOL given to us to USE so as to CHANGE our Lives for the better...

Anyway all this got nothing to do with Ardass Changed...its descending in to name calling..the Internet equvalent of Chupp Karr jaa...GHSUNN Maruun te dand torr duun..when all logic is lost...( shut up or i will break all your teeth..when logical discussion fails is last resort of many...)

 

[Ajmer singh Randhawa]

Re: Ardaas Changed

Giani ji, you are persuading Sant Hari Singh ji Randhawa walleh to join the discussion so that you may compel him to speak something in favor or against. If Akal Takhat has banned to discuss on Dasam Granth, we should distance ourself, Our motto on this forum is to discuss the change in Ardas. Some discussion has already taken place regarding Dasam Granth, that also in ignorance if it has been banned by Akal Takhat. It may not not be a supreme authority for you and some of your friends but it for us. So please don't go to insist upon banned topics. Sikhnet should also see into this.

 

[vsgrewal48895]

Re: Ardaas Changed

Dear All,

​

Sabd Guru on Rahat/Rahit(ਰਹਤ /ਰਹਿਤ )​

​

The two words Rahat ਰਹਤ and Rahit ਰਹਿਤ have different meanings and have to be understood as such.

The word Rahat ਰਹਤ is derived from Rahi, which in turn is derived from Raha/Rahana, meaning reside, dwell, exist, continue, or remain, custom, habit, manner, mathod as written in Mahan Kosh and Gurmukhi word dictionary of AGGS by Dr. Surinder Singh Kohli.

The words Rahat/ਰਹਤ (way of life or desciplin) and Rahit/ਰਹਿਤ (without or excep) are incorporated in AGGS in the following hymns of Guru Nanak (Ragas Bilawal and Parbhati) and Guru Arjan in (Ragas Bhairo and Sarang

ਸਾਚੀ ਰਹਤ ਸਾਚਾ ਮਨਿ ਸੋਈ ॥​

Full Sabd​

ਨਿਕਟਿ ਵਸੈ ਦੇਖੈ ਸਭੁ ਸੋਈ ॥ ਗੁਰਮੁਖਿ ਵਿਰਲਾ ਬੂਝੈ ਕੋਈ ॥ ਵਿਣੁ ਭੈ ਪਇਐ ਭਗਤਿ ਨ ਹੋਈ ॥ ਸਬਦਿ ਰਤੇ ਸਦਾ ਸੁਖੁ ਹੋਈ ॥੧॥ ਐਸਾ ਗਿਆਨੁ ਪਦਾਰਥੁ ਨਾਮੁ ॥ ਗੁਰਮੁਖਿ ਪਾਵਸਿ ਰਸਿ ਰਸਿ ਮਾਨੁ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥ ਗਿਆਨੁ ਗਿਆਨੁ ਕਥੈ ਸਭੁ ਕੋਈ ॥ ਕਥਿ ਕਥਿ ਬਾਦੁ ਕਰੇ ਦੁਖੁ ਹੋਈ ॥ ਕਥਿ ਕਹਣੈ ਤੇ ਰਹੈ ਨ ਕੋਈ ॥ ਬਿਨੁ ਰਸ ਰਾਤੇ ਮੁਕਤਿ ਨ ਹੋਈ ॥੨॥ ਗਿਆਨੁ ਧਿਆਨੁ ਸਭੁ ਗੁਰ ਤੇ ਹੋਈ ॥ ਸਾਚੀ ਰਹਤ ਸਾਚਾ ਮਨਿ ਸੋਈ ॥ ਮਨਮੁਖ ਕਥਨੀ ਹੈ ਪਰੁ ਰਹਤ ਨ ਹੋਈ ॥ ਨਾਵਹੁ ਭੂਲੇ ਥਾਉ ਨ ਕੋਈ ॥ ਮਨੁ ਮਾਇਆ ਬੰਧਿਓ ਸਰ ਜਾਲਿ ॥ ਘਟਿ ਘਟਿ ਬਿਆਪਿ ਰਹਿਓ ਬਿਖੁ ਨਾਲਿ ॥ ਜੋ ਆਂਜੈ ਸੋ ਦੀਸੈ ਕਾਲਿ ॥ ਕਾਰਜੁ ਸੀਧੋ ਰਿਦੈ ਸਮ੍ਹ੍ਹਾਲਿ ॥੪॥ ਸੋ ਗਿਆਨੀ ਜਿਨਿ ਸਬਦਿ ਲਿਵ ਲਾਈ ॥ ਮਨਮੁਖਿ ਹਉਮੈ ਪਤਿ ਗਵਾਈ ॥ ਆਪੇ ਕਰਤੈ ਭਗਤਿ ਕਰਾਈ ॥ ਗੁਰਮੁਖਿ ਆਪੇ ਦੇ ਵਡਿਆਈ ॥੫॥ ਰੈਣਿ ਅੰਧਾਰੀ ਨਿਰਮਲ ਜੋਤਿ ॥ ਨਾਮ ਬਿਨਾ ਝੂਠੇ ਕੁਚਲ ਕਛੋਤਿ ॥ ਬੇਦੁ ਪੁਕਾਰੈ ਭਗਤਿ ਸਰੋਤਿ ॥ ਸੁਣਿ ਸੁਣਿ ਮਾਨੈ ਵੇਖੈ ਜੋਤਿ ॥੬॥ ਸਾਸਤ੍ਰ ਸਿਮ੍ਰਿਤਿ ਨਾਮੁ ਦ੍ਰਿੜਾਮੰ ॥ ਗੁਰਮੁਖਿ ਸਾਂਤਿ ਊਤਮ ਕਰਾਮੰ ॥ ਮਨਮੁਖਿ ਜੋਨੀ ਦੂਖ ਸਹਾਮੰ ॥ ਬੰਧਨ ਤੂਟੇ ਇਕੁ ਨਾਮੁ ਵਸਾਮੰ ॥੭॥ ਮੰਨੇ ਨਾਮੁ ਸਚੀ ਪਤਿ ਪੂਜਾ ॥ ਕਿਸੁ ਵੇਖਾ ਨਾਹੀ ਕੋ ਦੂਜਾ ॥ ਦੇਖਿ ਕਹਉ ਭਾਵੈ ਮਨਿ ਸੋਇ ॥ ਨਾਨਕੁ ਕਹੈ ਅਵਰੁ ਨਹੀ ਕੋਇ ॥੮॥੧॥
Nikat vasai ḏekẖai sabẖ so▫ī. Gurmukẖ virlā būjẖai ko▫ī. viṇ bẖai pa▫i▫ai bẖagaṯ na ho▫ī. Sabaḏ raṯe saḏā sukẖ ho▫ī. ||1|| Aisā gi▫ān paḏārath nām. Gurmukẖ pāvas ras ras mān. ||1|| rahā▫o. Gi▫ān gi▫ān kathai sabẖ ko▫ī. Kath kath bāḏ kare ḏukẖ ho▫ī. Kath kahṇai ṯe rahai na ko▫ī. Bin ras rāṯe mukaṯ na ho▫ī. ||2|| Gi▫ān ḏẖi▫ān sabẖ gur ṯe ho▫ī. Saachee Rahat Saachaa Man Soyee, Manmukh Kathnee Hai Par Rahat Na Hoyee, Naavoh Bhoolay Thaou Na Koyee. Man mā▫i▫ā banḏẖi▫o sar jāl. Gẖat gẖat bi▫āp rahi▫o bikẖ nāl. Jo āʼnjai so ḏīsai kāl. Kāraj sīḏẖo riḏai samĥāl. ||4|| So gi▫ānī jin sabaḏ liv lā▫ī. Manmukẖ ha▫umai paṯ gavā▫ī. Āpe karṯai bẖagaṯ karā▫ī. Gurmukẖ āpe ḏe vadi▫ā▫ī. ||5|| Raiṇ anḏẖārī nirmal joṯ. Nām binā jẖūṯẖe kucẖal kacẖẖoṯ. Beḏ pukārai bẖagaṯ saroṯ. Suṇ suṇ mānai vekẖai joṯ. ||6|| Sāsṯar simriṯ nām ḏariṛ▫ām. Gurmukẖ sāʼnṯ ūṯam karāmaʼn. Manmukẖ jonī ḏūkẖ sahāmaʼn. Banḏẖan ṯūte ik nām vasāmaʼn. ||7|| Manne nām sacẖī paṯ pūjā. Kis vekẖā nāhī ko ḏūjā. Ḏekẖ kaha▫o bẖāvai man so▫e. Nānak kahai avar nahī ko▫e. ||8||1||

Akal Purkh dwells close at hand, and sees all,but how rare is the Guru willed who understands this. Without the Fear of God, there is no devotional worship. Imbued with the Word of the Sabd, eternal peace is attained. ||1|| Such is the spiritual wisdom, the treasure of the Naam; obtaining it, the Guru willed enjoy the subtle essence of this nectar. ||1||Pause|| Everyone talks about spiritual wisdom and spiritual knowledge.Talking, talking, they argue, and suffer. No one can stop talking and discussing it. Without being imbued with the subtle essence, there is no liberation. ||2|| Spiritual wisdom and meditation all come from the Guru. The True way of life comes through Truth embedded in the mind. The self-willed talks about it, but does not practice it. Forgetting the Name, one does not find any solace or peace. Maya has caught the mind in the trap of the whirlpool. Each and every heart is trapped by this bait of poison and sin. See that whoever has come, is subject to death. Your affairs shall be adjusted, if you contemplate the Akal Purkh in your heart. ||4|| He alone is a spiritual teacher, who lovingly focuses his consciousness on the Word of the Sabd.The self-willed, egotistical self willed loses his honor.The Creator Itself inspires us to Its devotional worship. God blesses the Gurmukh with glorious greatness. ||5|| The life-night is dark, while the Divine Light is immaculate. Those who lack the Naam, are false, filthy and untouchable. The Vedas preach sermons of devotional worship. Listening, hearing and believing, one beholds the Divine Light. ||6|| The Shaastras and Simritees implant the Naam within. The Guru willed lives in peace and tranquility, doing deeds of sublime purity. The self-willed suffers the pains of reincarnation. Enshrining the Name of the One Akal Purkh bonds are broken. ||7|| Believing in the Naam, one obtains true honor and adoration. Who should I see? There is none other than the Akal Purkh. I see, and I say, that Akal Purkh alone is pleasing to my mind. Says Nanak, there is no other at all. ||8||1||
-----Guru Nanak, Raag Bilawal, AGGS, Page. 831-12

ਸਚੀ ਰਹਤ ਸਚਾ ਸੁਖੁ ਪਾਏ ॥੭॥​

Full Sabd​

​

ਮਾਇਆ ਮੋਹਿ ਸਗਲ ਜਗੁ ਛਾਇਆ ॥ ਕਾਮਣਿ ਦੇਖਿ ਕਾਮਿ ਲੋਭਾਇਆ ॥ ਸਭੁ ਕਿਛੁ ਅਪਨਾ ਇਕੁ ਰਾਮੁ ਪਰਾਇਆ ॥੧॥ ਐਸਾ ਜਾਪੁ ਜਪਉ ਜਪਮਾਲੀ ॥ ਦੁਖ ਸੁਖ ਪਰਹਰਿ ਭਗਤਿ ਨਿਰਾਲੀ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥ ਗੁਣ ਨਿਧਾਨ ਤੇਰਾ ਅੰਤੁ ਨ ਪਾਇਆ ॥ ਸਾਚ ਸਬਦਿ ਤੁਝ ਮਾਹਿ ਸਮਾਇਆ ॥ ਆਵਾ ਗਉਣੁ ਤੁਧੁ ਆਪਿ ਰਚਾਇਆ ॥ ਸੇਈ ਭਗਤ ਜਿਨ ਸਚਿ ਚਿਤੁ ਲਾਇਆ ॥੨॥ ਗਿਆਨੁ ਧਿਆਨੁ ਨਰਹਰਿ ਨਿਰਬਾਣੀ ॥ ਬਿਨੁ ਸਤਿਗੁਰ ਭੇਟੇ ਕੋਇ ਨ ਜਾਣੀ ॥ ਸਗਲ ਸਰੋਵਰ ਜੋਤਿ ਸਮਾਣੀ ॥ ਆਨਦ ਰੂਪ ਵਿਟਹੁ ਕੁਰਬਾਣੀ ॥੩॥ ਭਾਉ ਭਗਤਿ ਗੁਰਮਤੀ ਪਾਏ ॥ ਹਉਮੈ ਵਿਚਹੁ ਸਬਦਿ ਜਲਾਏ ॥ ਧਾਵਤੁ ਰਾਖੈ ਠਾਕਿ ਰਹਾਏ ॥ ਸਚਾ ਨਾਮੁ ਮੰਨਿ ਵਸਾਏ ॥੪॥ ਬਿਸਮ ਬਿਨੋਦ ਰਹੇ ਪਰਮਾਦੀ ॥ ਗੁਰਮਤਿ ਮਾਨਿਆ ਏਕ ਲਿਵ ਲਾਗੀ ॥ ਦੇਖਿ ਨਿਵਾਰਿਆ ਜਲ ਮਹਿ ਆਗੀ ॥ ਸੋ ਬੂਝੈ ਹੋਵੈ ਵਡਭਾਗੀ ॥੫॥ ਸਤਿਗੁਰੁ ਸੇਵੇ ਭਰਮੁ ਚੁਕਾਏ ॥ ਅਨਦਿਨੁ ਜਾਗੈ ਸਚਿ ਲਿਵ ਲਾਏ ॥ ਏਕੋ ਜਾਣੈ ਅਵਰੁ ਨ ਕੋਇ ॥ ਸੁਖਦਾਤਾ ਸੇਵੇ ਨਿਰਮਲੁ ਹੋਇ ॥੬॥ ਸੇਵਾ ਸੁਰਤਿ ਸਬਦਿ ਵੀਚਾਰਿ ॥ ਜਪੁ ਤਪੁ ਸੰਜਮੁ ਹਉਮੈ ਮਾਰਿ ॥ ਜੀਵਨ ਮੁਕਤੁ ਜਾ ਸਬਦੁ ਸੁਣਾਏ ॥ ਸਚੀ ਰਹਤ ਸਚਾ ਸੁਖੁ ਪਾਏ ॥੭॥ ਸੁਖਦਾਤਾ ਦੁਖੁ ਮੇਟਣਹਾਰਾ ॥ ਅਵਰੁ ਨ ਸੂਝਸਿ ਬੀਜੀ ਕਾਰਾ ॥ ਤਨੁ ਮਨੁ ਧਨੁ ਹਰਿ ਆਗੈ ਰਾਖਿਆ ॥ ਨਾਨਕੁ ਕਹੈ ਮਹਾ ਰਸੁ ਚਾਖਿਆ ॥੮॥੨॥
Mā▫i▫ā mohi sagal jag cẖẖā▫i▫ā. Kāmaṇ ḏekẖ kām lobẖā▫i▫ā. Suṯ kancẖan si▫o heṯ vaḏẖā▫i▫ā. Sabẖ kicẖẖ apnā ik rām parā▫i▫ā. ||1|| Aisā jāp japa▫o japmālī. Ḏukẖ sukẖ parhar bẖagaṯ nirālī. ||1|| rahā▫o. Guṇ niḏẖān ṯerā anṯ na pā▫i▫ā. Sācẖ sabaḏ ṯujẖ māhi samā▫i▫ā. Āvā ga▫oṇ ṯuḏẖ āp racẖā▫i▫ā. Se▫ī bẖagaṯ jin sacẖ cẖiṯ lā▫i▫ā. ||2|| Gi▫ān ḏẖi▫ān narhar nirbāṇī. Bin saṯgur bẖete ko▫e na jāṇī. Sagal sarovar joṯ samāṇī. Ānaḏ rūp vitahu kurbāṇī. ||3|| Bẖā▫o bẖagaṯ gurmaṯī pā▫e. Ha▫umai vicẖahu sabaḏ jalā▫e. Ḏẖāvaṯ rākẖai ṯẖāk rahā▫e. Sacẖā nām man vasā▫e. ||4|| Bisam binoḏ rahe parmāḏī. Gurmaṯ māni▫ā ek liv lāgī. Ḏekẖ nivāri▫ā jal mėh āgī. So būjẖai hovai vadbẖāgī. ||5|| Saṯgur seve bẖaram cẖukā▫e. An▫ḏin jāgai sacẖ liv lā▫e. Ėko jāṇai avar na ko▫e. Sukẖ▫ḏāṯa seve nirmal ho▫e. ||6|| Sevā suraṯ sabaḏ vīcẖār. Jap ṯap sanjam ha▫umai mār. Jīvan mukaṯ jā sabaḏ suṇā▫e. Sacẖī rahaṯ sacẖā sukẖ pā▫e. ||7|| Sukẖ▫ḏāṯa ḏukẖ metaṇhārā. Avar na sūjẖas bījī kārā. Ŧan man ḏẖan har āgai rākẖi▫ā. Nānak kahai mahā ras cẖākẖi▫ā. ||8||2||


Emotional attachment to Maya is spread out all over the world. Seeing a beautiful woman, the man is overcome with sexual desire. His love for his children and gold steadily increases. He sees everything as his own, but he does not own the One God. ||1||
I meditate as I chant on such a mala, that I rise above pleasure and pain; I attain the most wondrous devotional worship of the Akal Purkh. ||1||Pause|| O Treasure of Virtue, Your limits cannot be found. Through the True Word of the Sabd, I am absorbed into You. You Yourself created the comings and goings of reincarnation. They alone are devotees, who focus their consciousness on You. ||2|| Spiritual wisdom and meditation on the God of Nirvaanaa- without meeting the True Guru, no one knows this. Akal Purkh's Light fills the sacred pools of all beings. I am a sacrifice to the Embodiment of Bliss. ||3|| Through the Guru's Teachings, one achieves loving devotional worship. The Sabd burns away egotism from within.The wandering mind is restrained and held in its place.The True Name is enshrined in the mind. ||4|| The exciting and intoxicating worldly plays come to an end, for those who accept the Guru's Teachings, and become lovingly attuned to the One Akal Purkh. Seeing this, the fire in the water is extinguished. They alone realize this, who are blessed by great good fortune. ||5|| Serving the True Guru, doubt is dispelled. Those who are lovingly attuned to the True God remain awake and aware night and day. They know the One Creator, and no other. Serving the Giver of peace, they become immaculate. ||6|| Selfless service and intuitive awareness come by reflecting upon the Word of the Sabd. Chanting, intensive meditation and austere self-discipline come by subduing the ego. One becomes Jivan-mukta - liberated while yet alive, by listening to the Sabd. Living a truthful way of life, one finds true peace. ||7|| The Giver of peace is the Eradicator of pain. I cannot conceive of serving any other. I place my body, mind and wealth in offering before God. Says Nanak, I have tasted the supreme, sublime Essence of the Lord. ||8||2|| -----Guru Nanak, Raag Parbhatee, AGGS, Page, 1343-4 & 5

ਰੋਗ ਰਹਿਤ ਮੇਰਾ ਸਤਿਗੁਰੁ ਜੋਗੀ ॥
Full Sabd​

ਹਉਮੈ ਰੋਗੁ ਮਾਨੁਖ ਕਉ ਦੀਨਾ ॥ ਕਾਮ ਰੋਗਿ ਮੈਗਲੁ ਬਸਿ ਲੀਨਾ ॥ ਦ੍ਰਿਸਟਿ ਰੋਗਿ ਪਚਿ ਮੁਏ ਪਤੰਗਾ ॥ ਨਾਦ ਰੋਗਿ ਖਪਿ ਗਏ ਕੁਰੰਗਾ ॥੧॥ ਜੋ ਜੋ ਦੀਸੈ ਸੋ ਸੋ ਰੋਗੀ ॥ ਰੋਗ ਰਹਿਤ ਮੇਰਾ ਸਤਿਗੁਰੁ ਜੋਗੀ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥ ਜਿਹਵਾ ਰੋਗਿ ਮੀਨੁ ਗ੍ਰਸਿਆਨੋ ॥ ਜਿਹਵਾ ਰੋਗਿ ਮੀਨੁ ਗ੍ਰਸਿਆਨੋ ॥ ਬਾਸਨ ਰੋਗਿ ਭਵਰੁ ਬਿਨਸਾਨੋ ॥ ਹੇਤ ਰੋਗ ਕਾ ਸਗਲ ਸੰਸਾਰਾ ॥ ਤ੍ਰਿਬਿਧਿ ਰੋਗ ਮਹਿ ਬਧੇ ਬਿਕਾਰਾ ॥੨॥ ਰੋਗੇ ਮਰਤਾ ਰੋਗੇ ਜਨਮੈ ॥ ਰੋਗੇ ਫਿਰਿ ਫਿਰਿ ਜੋਨੀ ਭਰਮੈ ॥ ਰੋਗ ਬੰਧ ਰਹਨੁ ਰਤੀ ਨ ਪਾਵੈ ॥ ਬਿਨੁ ਸਤਿਗੁਰ ਰੋਗੁ ਕਤਹਿ ਨ ਜਾਵੈ ॥੩॥ ਪਾਰਬ੍ਰਹਮਿ ਜਿਸੁ ਕੀਨੀ ਦਇਆ ॥ ਬਾਹ ਪਕੜਿ ਰੋਗਹੁ ਕਢਿ ਲਇਆ ॥ ਤੂਟੇ ਬੰਧਨ ਸਾਧਸੰਗੁ ਪਾਇਆ ॥ ਕਹੁ ਨਾਨਕ ਗੁਰਿ ਰੋਗੁ ਮਿਟਾਇਆ ॥੪॥੭॥੨੦॥
Ha▫umai rog mānukẖ ka▫o ḏīnā. Kām rog maigal bas līnā. Ḏarisat rog pacẖ mu▫e paṯangā. Nāḏ rog kẖap ga▫e kurangā. ||1|| Jo jo ḏīsai so so rogī. Rog rahiṯ merā saṯgur jogī. ||1|| rahā▫o. Jihvā rog mīn garsi▫āno. Bāsan rog bẖavar binsāno. Heṯ rog kā sagal sansārā. Ŧaribaḏẖ rog mėh baḏẖe bikārā. ||2|| Roge marṯā roge janmai. Roge fir fir jonī bẖarmai. Rog banḏẖ rahan raṯī na pāvai. Bin saṯgur rog kaṯėh na jāvai. ||3|| Pārbarahm jis kīnī ḏa▫i▫ā Bāh pakaṛ rogahu kadẖ la▫i▫ā. Ŧūte banḏẖan sāḏẖsang pā▫i▫ā. Kaho Nānak gur rog mitā▫i▫ā. ||4||7||20||

Mankind is afflicted with the disease of egotism. The disease of sexual desire overwhelms the elephant. Because of the disease of vision, the moth is burnt to death. Because of the disease of the sound of the bell, the deer is lured to its death. ||1|| whoever I see is diseased. Only my True Guru, the True Yogi, is free of disease. ||1||Pause|| Because of the disease of taste, the fish is caught. Because of the disease of smell, the bumble bee is destroyed. The whole world is caught in the disease of attachment. In the disease of the three qualities, corruption is multiplied. ||2|| In disease the mortals die, and in disease they are born. In disease they wander in reincarnation again and again. Entangled in disease, they cannot stay still, even for an instant. Without the True Guru, the disease is never cured. ||3|| When the Supreme Akal Purkh grants Its Mercy, grabs hold of the mortal's arm, and pulls him up and out of the disease. Reaching the Company of the Holy, the mortal's bonds are broken and the Guru cures him of the disease, says Nanak ||4||7||20|| -----Guru Arjan, Raag Bhairo, AGGS, Page, 1140-17

ਰਹਿਤ ਬਿਕਾਰ ਅਲਪ ਮਾਇਆ ਤੇ ਅਹੰਬੁਧਿ ਬਿਖੁ ਤਿਆਗੀ ॥​

Full Sabd​

​

ਜਾ ਕੀ ਰਾਮ ਨਾਮ ਲਿਵ ਲਾਗੀ ॥ ਸਜਨੁ ਸੁਰਿਦਾ ਸੁਹੇਲਾ ਸਹਜੇ ਸੋ ਕਹੀਐ ਬਡਭਾਗੀ ॥ ਰਹਿਤ ਬਿਕਾਰ ਅਲਪ ਮਾਇਆ ਤੇ ਅਹੰਬੁਧਿ ਬਿਖੁ ਤਿਆਗੀ ॥ ਦਰਸ ਪਿਆਸ ਆਸ ਏਕਹਿ ਕੀ ਟੇਕ ਹੀਐਂ ਪ੍ਰਿਅ ਪਾਗੀ ॥੧॥ ਅਚਿੰਤ ਸੋਇ ਜਾਗਨੁ ਉਠਿ ਬੈਸਨੁ ਅਚਿੰਤ ਹਸਤ ਬੈਰਾਗੀ ॥ ਕਹੁ ਨਾਨਕ ਜਿਨਿ ਜਗਤੁ ਠਗਾਨਾ ਸੁ ਮਾਇਆ ਹਰਿ ਜਨ ਠਾਗੀ ॥੨॥੪੪॥੬੭॥

Jā kī rām nām liv lāgī. Sajan suriḏā suhėlā sehjė so kahī­ai badbẖāgī. Rahiṯ bikār alap mā­i­ā ṯė ahaʼn­buḏẖ bikẖ ṯi­āgī.


One who is lovingly absorbed in the Name of Akal Purkh is a good-hearted friend, intuitively embellished with happiness. He is said to be blessed and fortunate, who is without sin or corruption, is detached from Maya, and has renounced the poison of egotistical intellect. -----Guru Arjan, Raag Sarang, AGGS, Page, 1217-10

Guru Arjan also ponders on the way of life similarly in the following references’
Guru Arjan, Raag Gauri Sukhmani, AGGS, Page, 283-14
Guru Arjan, Siri Raag, AGGS, Page 71-7
Guru Arjan, Siri Raag, AGGS, Page, 51-12&13

Cordially,

Virinder S. Grewal

 

[Gyani Jarnail Singh]

Re: Ardaas Changed

Grewal Ji has explained in FULL what the Sampooran GURU..SGGS has to say on Rehit of a Sikh.Rehit actually BEGINS with Guur nanak Ji Sahib..in SGGS...aand it continues towards 1699 Vasakhi...
The Khandey batte dee Pahul, is the DEEKHYA or INITIATION RITE of Passage into the Khalsa Brotherhood and is Personal Choice of a SIKH who has reached Age of Maturity/Decison Making. Anyone can be born a Sikh/Born into a Sikh Household/Born to Sikh Parents...and thus be a SIKH...BUT to Kneel before the PANJ PIYARAS and VOLUNTARILY ACCEPT the Khalsa Rehit/Discipline/deekhya into the Khalsa Brotherhood is everyones OWN CHOICE. This is the Ultimate GOAL of each and every SIKH...but its never the less voluntary and cannot be forced. Just as each and everyone can be enrolled in a SCHOOL..and can Progress to each further grade/step...ultimately its personal choice/decision to SIT for the EXAMINATION. No student can be forced to sit an exam...and just as sitting for an Exam is merely a first step,,,Khandey dee Pahul is only a FIRST STEP...the hard work comes later...Most DONT realise this crucial step...they think merely becoming a KHALSA and wearing the 5 kakaars CONFERS the ULTIMATE SPIRITUAL PEAK..and henceforth they can sit on their laurels and bask in the glory of being holier than THOU...little do they know that they have just passed the exam..qualified...and NOW MUST PRACTISE it to perfection. A Doctor studies for years, sits the exams, passses and qualifies...HE THEN BEGINS TO PRACTISE what he learnt...to PERFECTION...No Doctor would pass his exam and sit abck..thinking i am the BEST doctor there is...how foolish..and being a Perfect KHALSA is so much more STRINGENT thna amere Doctor...but strangely even kids age of 5 take Khandey dee Pahul as so EASY...thye think they have arrived at the peak...how foolish of them...
Personal Thanks to Grewal Ji for taking the SPN Guideliens seriously and giving us the Full Shabads so there is no room for doubts/duality.Keep in Chardeekalla Jios..

 

[Inder singh]

Sant hari Singh Randhawawllah refused to debate with Jeonwallah and Prof darshan Singh.
He called Jeonwallah as "BELOW MY STANDARD"...and as to debating with Prof darshan Singh....he replied... dsm granth discussion is banned by Akal takhat...

Guru Nanak Ji says..kicch sunneah kichh kaheah Nanak... ASKING questions is not banned in Gurmatt. Claiming to have the ONE and ONLY answer is anti-gurmatt.

Rozana Spokesman Online....

This is not fact. Spokesman is a big liar.

When Darshan singh started speaking , sangat objected saying that Ragi is violating Hukamnama of akal Takhat by criticizing Dasam granth.

He was not allowed to speak and hence the discussion was terminated...

 

[spnadmin]

Inder ji

How do you define "truth?"

 

[vsgrewal48895]

Re: Ardaas Changed

Dear Gyani Ji,

Thanks for clarifying Baptism and stressing on the intertwined difficult principles, which the individual must follow. Sikh baptism in to Khalsa is not the means to an end but a beginning of a hard and steep journey towards becoming a Guru willed individual. It is not the ritual of baptism but living in thought, word, spirit, and deed of the principles laid down; otherwise it stays as a ritual. No external icon, symbol, religious dress, bought Akhand Path, or body position or sequence of words or numbers, has ever made God respond any better to any prayer, nor made heaven or earth or hell or anything else supernaturally bend to anyone's bidding. These deceitful situations are not a check that you can draw on the bank of God, whenever you are hard put to meet your needs.

It is the sincerity and absolute honesty which are of prime importance to progress in spirituality.

The moment you believe that baptism has any powers or merit of its own, you believe in magic, you are being idolatrous, and you are breaking the teachings of your faith. Guru Nanak in Raag Asa advises a Brahmin;

ਕਾਇਆ ਬ੍ਰਹਮਾ ਮਨੁ ਹੈ ਧੋਤੀ ॥ਗਿਆਨੁ ਜਨੇਊ ਧਿਆਨੁ ਕੁਸਪਾਤੀ ॥ਹਰਿ ਨਾਮਾ ਜਸੁ ਜਾਚਉ ਨਾਉ ॥ਗੁਰ ਪਰਸਾਦੀ ਬ੍ਰਹਮਿ ਸਮਾਉ ॥ਪਾਂਡੇ ਐਸਾ ਬ੍ਰਹਮ ਬੀਚਾਰੁ ॥ਨਾਮੇ ਸੁਚਿ ਨਾਮੋ ਪੜਉ ਨਾਮੇ ਚਜੁ ਆਚਾਰੁ ॥ ਬਾਹਰਿ ਜਨੇਊ ਜਿਚਰੁ ਜੋਤਿ ਹੈ ਨਾਲਿ ॥ਧੋਤੀ ਟਿਕਾ ਨਾਮੁ ਸਮਾਲਿ ॥ਐਥੈ ਓਥੈ ਨਿਬਹੀ ਨਾਲਿ ॥ਵਿਣੁ ਨਾਵੈ ਹੋਰਿ ਕਰਮ ਨ ਭਾਲਿ ॥ਪੂਜਾ ਪ੍ਰੇਮ ਮਾਇਆ ਪਰਜਾਲਿ ॥ਏਕੋ ਵੇਖਹੁ ਅਵਰੁ ਨ ਭਾਲਿ ॥ਚੀਨ੍ਹ੍ਹੈ ਤਤੁ ਗਗਨ ਦਸ ਦੁਆਰ ॥ਹਰਿ ਮੁਖਿ ਪਾਠ ਪੜੈ ਬੀਚਾਰ ॥ਭੋਜਨੁ ਭਾਉ ਭਰਮੁ ਭਉ ਭਾਗੈ ॥ਪਾਹਰੂਅਰਾ ਛਬਿ ਚੋਰੁ ਨ ਲਾਗੈ ॥ਤਿਲਕੁ ਲਿਲਾਟਿ ਜਾਣੈ ਪ੍ਰਭੁ ਏਕੁ ॥ਬੂਝੈ ਬ੍ਰਹਮੁ ਅੰਤਰਿ ਬਿਬੇਕੁ ॥ਆਚਾਰੀ ਨਹੀ ਜੀਤਿਆ ਜਾਇ ॥ਪਾਠ ਪੜੈ ਨਹੀ ਕੀਮਤਿ ਪਾਇ ॥ਅਸਟ ਦਸੀ ਚਹੁ ਭੇਦੁ ਨ ਪਾਇਆ ॥ਨਾਨਕ ਸਤਿਗੁਰਿ ਬ੍ਰਹਮੁ ਦਿਖਾਇਆ ॥

Kā¬i¬ā barahmā man hai ḏẖoṯī, Gi¬ān janė¬ū ḏẖi¬ān kuspāṯī, Har nāmā jas jācẖa¬o nā¬o, Gur parsādī barahm samā¬o, Pāʼndė aisā barahm bīcẖār, Nāmė sucẖ nāmo paṛa¬o nāmė cẖaj ācẖār, Bāhar janė¬ū jicẖar joṯ hai nāl, Ḏẖoṯī tikā nām samāl, Aithai othai nibhī nāl, viṇ nāvai hor karam na bẖāl, Pūjā parėm mā¬i¬ā parjāl, Ėko vėkẖhu avar na bẖāl, Cẖīnĥai ṯaṯ gagan ḏas ḏu¬ār, Har mukẖ pāṯẖ paṛai bīcẖār, Bẖojan bẖā¬o bẖaram bẖa¬o bẖāgai, Pāhrū¬arā cẖẖab cẖor na lāgai, Ŧilak lilāt jāṇai parabẖ ėk, Būjẖai barahm anṯar bibėk, Ācẖārī nahī jīṯi¬ā jā¬ė, Pāṯẖ paṛai nahī kīmaṯ pā¬ė, Asat ḏasī cẖahu bẖėḏ na pā¬i¬ā, Nānak saṯgur barahm ḏikẖā¬i¬ā.

Let the body be the Brahmin, and let the mind be the loin-cloth; let spiritual wisdom be the sacred thread, and meditation the ceremonial ring. I seek the Name of the Akal Purkh and Its Praise as my cleansing bath. By Guru's Grace, I am absorbed into God. O religious scholar, contemplate God in such a way that Its Name may sanctify you, be your study, be your wisdom and way of life. The outer sacred thread is worthwhile only as long as the Divine Light is within. So make the remembrance of the Name of the Akal Purkh, your loin-cloth and the ceremonial mark on your forehead. Here and hereafter, the Name alone shall stand by you. Do not seek any other actions, except the Name. Worship the Akal Purkh in loving adoration, and burn your desire for Maya. Behold only the One Creator, and do not seek out any other. Become aware of reality, in the Sky of the Tenth Gate; read aloud the Its Word, and contemplate it. With the diet of Its Love, doubt and fear depart. With the God as your night watchman, no thief will dare to break in. Let the knowledge of the One God be the ceremonial mark on your forehead. Let the realization that God is within you be your discrimination. Through ritual actions, God cannot be won over; by reciting sacred scriptures, It’s value cannot be estimated. The eighteen Puraanas and the four Vedas do not know Its mystery. O Nanak, the True Guru has shown me the God. -----Guru Nanak, Raag Asa, AGGS, Page, 355


Cordially,

Virinder S. Grewal
Williamston, MI

 

[Tejwant Singh]

This is not fact. Spokesman is a big liar.

When Darshan singh started speaking , sangat objected saying that Ragi is violating Hukamnama of akal Takhat by criticizing Dasam granth.

He was not allowed to speak and hence the discussion was terminated...

These kinds of Hukumnaama are anti Gurmat and against the teachings of SGGS. Sikhi is based on interaction, not on some hukumnaama by some who do not understand the concept of SGGS.

Tejwant Singh

 

[Tejwant Singh]

Re: Ardaas Changed

Ajmer Singh ji,

Guru Fateh.

You write:

Tejwant Singh ji,What i wrote didn't mean to hatred but to avoid the arguments without reason. i have earlier said that some people (you know) may agree the ultimate decision but aree compelled from their habits to not to accept by hearts, Guru Nanak Dev Ji has sais in "Asa di War" that 'Apradhi doona nivey Ridey kasudey jaye' means the offender shall bow many times in agreeing but by heart he will always opt to choose the other way.'

I have no idea what you are talking about in the above statement. The fact is that you have used Gurbani to insult and degrade others in a disrespectful manner which is not the aim of studying Gurbani. In the above you have again used Gurbani as a weapon against others rather than a tool for yourself to practice it in your own life. Please elaborate in lay man's terms with the examples from SGGS to express what you are trying to say so we can all learn from it.

Thia is exactly the close associates of Kala Afgana , You and some other persons doing the same.

Who are these close associates of Kala Afghana that you and Inder Singh keep on talking about repeatedly? Are they your and Inder Singh's relatives? Your friends? Do you know them personally and have discussed your dissatisfaction whatever you may have with them and Kala Afghana? As I requested before to both of you, honesty is the cornerstone of Sikhi, not talking in riddles and taunting others with baseless accusations.

When all the proves quoted, Photo copies provided about Dasam Granth, still you people asking the authentication. When Dasam Granth was compied in 1698, Guru Gobind Singh ji was alive and he has sighned on many Patras of it. Later on , The Baani of Dasam Granth or Chota Granth was taken care of by Bhai Mani Singh ji, whose hand written letter is enclosed even then you keep on uttering like parrot.

I thought you had pledged yourself not to talk about it in the Ardaas thread which is closed now. What made you change your mind? The facts are all mentioned many times before and are not worth repeating here again. Our only GURU is SGGS. No one else, nothing else. Too bad, you like Inder Singh do not consider SGGS as our ONLY GURU. Inder Singh also had no idea Rehat was mentioned in the SGGS. When I gave him the Panna numbers, he refused to study them and admit his mistakes. Thanks to Virinder ji's help and his excellent essay, one can see that. I hope Inder Singh and others who do not believe in SGGS- as our only GURU, but on some fiction will take advantage of that. Now, if by repeating that SGGS is our only GURU makes me a parrot, then I am one proud one.

You people are offenders of Sikh Panth. 'Sab Gobind Hai.' true means is that Waheguru ji omnipresent.

Here you go again insulting and disrespecting and mudslinging at others who disagree with you which is neither the objective of Gurbani that you quote to insult others nor is it the objective of Sikhi. You yourself do Ninda and blame others for that. These kinds of things expose your own mindset which btw I am not offended by. Not at all.

Yes, Vaheguru is omnipresent. Please share the description of Vaheguru in your own words so we can understand where you are coming from.

He is in thieves, and killers also but when a person commits a crime, Waheguru ji at once stops him but in selfishness when he insists to offend, Waheguru distances himself from the offender. In that case all the liability of the offence is solely of the offender, Waheguru or Gobind is not there.

In the above you are just making things up and pretending to play Ik Ong Kaar which is a shame and it has become your habit. It once again shows how arrogant you are. Only Ik Ong kaar knows who is the offender and which milestone each of is at. No one else can find that out. Neither you, me, Inder Singh or anyone else. So one wonders who is the offender here! The one who pretends to speak and act on behalf of Ik Ong kaar and claims to know HIS decisions or one who says that SGGS is our only GURU?

I do not think you understand the meaning of OMNIPRESENCE which btw means ALL included, no exception, and no one can be outside HIS omnipresence. Please check the dictionary or check with those who have misled you in its definition.

So i can dare to say Waheguru ji is not with you people, search your hearts and find Waheguru ji if he is there. You people argue of changes in Ardas and favor it but do you know the power of Ardas? If it had been known to you, i am sure you would have bowed before it, not insisted to prove the wrong into right.
Gur fateh and Waheguru sumat bakhshe.
Ajmer Singh Randhawa.

There you go again playing Ik Ong Kaar. Once again you have no idea what omnipresence means, the word you have used in your post above. Your arrogance and self centeredness of knowing the heart and mind of Ik Ong Kaar speaks volumes about your own self.

Please share with us how many times the word Ardaas is used in SGGS and what kind of Ardaas did our Gurus use? Who composed the Ardaas used by our Gurus? Please give us the whole Ardaas used by our 10 Gurus. Do not cop out this time like Inder Singh has done many times.

No one is arguing about the power of Ardaas. You are again distorting the facts that were discussed in the other thread.

Thanks for exposing yourself and allowing us to take a glimpse inside your heart.

Sarbat da Bhala.

Tejwant Singh