Keeping My Bodily Kesh (Hair) And Getting Used To The Gazes

[Inderjeet Kaur]

Lol if we cannot cut our hair, why do we cut our fingernails/pull our teeth out?? I understand the 5 K's and one is "Kesh" and I do follow what the guruji said but kesh technically is the hair on your head and not armpit hair or other body hair neccisarily.

Kamala ji, you can always find some technicality/ excuse to do what you want to do. Sikhi is not about technicalities and legalisms. If you understand the purposes of keeping kesh, you will also understand why most of us believe that means keeping all the hairs on our body unshorn.

For men, the most troublesome hair is the unshorn kesh on the scalp and also the unshorn beard. For us ladies, it is legs and armpits and eyebrows. (There is some dispute about facial hairs on women. I am of the school that says to leave them alone, but there are good arguments on both sides.) We are all called upon to do some things that are socially difficult; that is part of being Sikh. Some accept the challenge. Some do not.

I hope that you are strong enough to keep all your hairs, if keeping kesh is meaningful to you. If keeping kesh is not meaningful to you, I hope it becomes so. With your inquiring mind and willingness to learn, I believe that someday you would make a fine Khalsa.

 

[Kamala]

Aww thank you Inderjit Kaur :* sweetest way someone has every explained anything to me here! But I'm not amritdhari (yet) because I feel I will maybe one day break the rules and it's worse to accept the terms & conditions and not listen, rather than not accepting it fully when your not ready.. but thank you :* (Y)

 

[Ambarsaria]

Aww thank you Inderjit Kaur :* sweetest way someone has every explained anything to me here! But I'm not amritdhari (yet) because I feel I will maybe one day break the rules and it's worse to accept the terms & conditions and not listen, rather than not accepting it fully when your not ready.. but thank you :* (Y)

Kamala Bhain ji which religion's rule are you not breaking right now? Hindu/Sikh means breaking rules of both so I assume it is one of the other perhaps Islam.

assalam alikum (peace be with you).

 

[Kamala]

I guess you can say I'm Sanatan Sikh (not official)

Please don't say I'm abrahamic...

You should read this: http://sanatansikhi.blogspot.com/

Namashkar.

 

[Ambarsaria]

I guess you can say I'm Sanatan Sikh (not official)

Please don't say I'm abrahamic...

You should read this: http://sanatansikhi.blogspot.com/

Namashkar.

Kamala ji thanks for clarifying. Now I see the seeds of your confusion, double-talk and declaration as Hindu/Sikh. I can only feel for you. You know how bad it is to sit on a fence which your mind is forcing itself to do the illogical! Guru ji demolish lot of myths and then the other half of you will try to justify so to be true. There are two unique paths and parting of the ways. You have the option to stay stuck where you are and that is of course your choice.

Good luck.

Sat Sri Akal.

 

[Kamala]

WELL I found out of that site like yesterday, and found out what Sanatan was, and you should really read it and tell me what you think instead of judging a book my its cover.

Namashkar.

 

[Kanwaljit.Singh]

kesh technically is the hair on your head

Well I feel I have kept my beard all these years in vain! Kamala ji you have hurt my feelings :blueturban: :happysingh: :whatzpointsing::singhsippingcoffee:

 

[Ishna]

This 'goree' finds that site somewhat offensive.

At any rate discussion of the site should be done in another thread in the Sanatan Sikhism section here: http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/sanatan-sikhism/

My leg hairs concur.

Gurfateh.

 

[Kamala]

Sorry gauri ji Also that's your problem Kanwaljit xD

 

[Inderjeet Kaur]

Sorry gauri ji Also that's your problem Kanwaljit xD

Kanwaljit ji was being sarcastic. He loves his beard. I love every hair on my body. Listen to this:

I love this. Listen to the talk, then, at 2:45, the kirtan. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-zgSxwRa7Lg

 

[Ruqa]

I know this is an old thread but I'm new and I just read it (most of it very quickly to be honest) out of interest. So can I ask a couple questions? (if you look up you'll see i'm a Muslim so i'm lacking in knowledge on all this.) Sikh's, both men and women, shouldn't remove any hair from their bodies at all right? They shouldn't change anything at all right? No plucking, waxing, shaving etc I read somewhere else no circumcision as well... Right? All natural? What about the men who trim their beards? I've seen alot who do that. Btw, I admire the confidence in the women who are comfortable enough with themselves to leave things natural especially the ones in the west. You see when I read this I had a flash back to 1995 I would have been maybe 9-10 years old and the kids at school here in australia (look up again and you'll see in in aus) were teasing me because I didn't shave my legs and all the other girls we're already doing that for a while. And I would go home and cry to my mum about it, beg her to let me shave. After a few months she relented and took me to get my legs and armpits waxed. Teasing stopped. Fast forward to 1998 my first year of high school (12years-ish) and the girls started saying stuff about my eyebrows so one weekend I went into the bathroom shut the door and took some tweezers... My family was livid but I kept doing them. It's hard here when you're doing something that is different from the norm so like I said I admire your strenght. Tell me though, those of the women who are married, have you always been comfortable with your husband seeing you that way? Have any of your husbands ever asked you to do hair removal even though it goes against your religion? And if so or if they did, what would you say to them? And for the husband, you prefer your wife like that yeah? Thanks.

 

[Ishna]

Asalaam alayikum bheinji

The kesh (hair) debate in Sikhi is as muddy as the meat debate. You'll find a spectrum of opinions, some will cut their hair no problems, others will collect even the strands that fall out and then burn them out of respect.

Most of us are somewhere in the middle. :grinningkaur:

An amritdhari (initiated) Sikh shouldn't remove any hair at all. Sikhs who aren't yet amritdhari might remove body hair or trim their beards but might keep their head hair uncut. Others won't worry about keeping hair at all.

Sikh males (and females!) should not be circumcised unless it is required medically.

Sorry to hear about how teased you were in school. I never really got teased about it but I have very fine hair so it wasn't really noticeable when I was a tween. In my mid-to-late teens I became a Neo-Pagan feminist type and kept all my hair and was proud about it - I didn't hide my legs or armpits. My boyfriend at the time didn't mind at all about my hairs.

Now I am married, my husband doesn't like my kesh. It causes issues but that's my problem to deal with peacesignkaur.

I have singhni sisters who have husbands who don't mind their hair, and I think that's awesome. But regardless of religion, I suppose there will always be people with preferences.

Can I ask you ji, why does Islam encourage removal of body hair except eyebrows? What makes eyebrows different to, say, armpit hair, in Islam? Can a woman remove other hair from her face?

 

[Ruqa]

Yeah good question didi. In Islam it only specifically refers to the eyebrows the armpits and down there... So all other areas are a matter me personal choice because, as far as I know and I could be wrong so forgive me if I mislead you, there is no ruling on the other areas. It's said that the plucker of the eyebrows and the person being plucked recieves a curse for every hair plucked. The reasoning behind it is simply because it's making you appear more attractive highlighting your eyes drawing more attention to your face which goes against the point of hijab which is to obscure your beauty. Also islamic scholars differ in their rulings about the part between the eyebrows, the uni-brow, but the majority say it is allowed to pluck that. Beards moustaches and large sideburns on women are allowed to be removed thats personal choice. I think the armpits (to be plucked) and down there (to be shaved) are specifically mentioned because of hygine. Though (watch i'll upset some Muslim by saying this) don't agree with shaving down there. Anyone who has done that will tell you, you get itchy (blushing now) you are more prone to in-grown hairs even if you epilate you can get the in-growns. You don't get itchy if you wax but you still have the chance of getting the later problem and if the wrong wax is used you can get a rash because the skin there is delicate. So... I hope I answered everything.

 

[Auzer]

Yeah good question didi. In Islam it only specifically refers to the eyebrows the armpits and down there... So all other areas are a matter me personal choice because, as far as I know and I could be wrong so forgive me if I mislead you, there is no ruling on the other areas. It's said that the plucker of the eyebrows and the person being plucked recieves a curse for every hair plucked. The reasoning behind it is simply because it's making you appear more attractive highlighting your eyes drawing more attention to your face which goes against the point of hijab which is to obscure your beauty. Also islamic scholars differ in their rulings about the part between the eyebrows, the uni-brow, but the majority say it is allowed to pluck that. Beards moustaches and large sideburns on women are allowed to be removed thats personal choice. I think the armpits (to be plucked) and down there (to be shaved) are specifically mentioned because of hygine. Though (watch i'll upset some Muslim by saying this) don't agree with shaving down there. Anyone who has done that will tell you, you get itchy (blushing now) you are more prone to in-grown hairs even if you epilate you can get the in-growns. You don't get itchy if you wax but you still have the chance of getting the later problem and if the wrong wax is used you can get a rash because the skin there is delicate. So... I hope I answered everything.

OMG how can you say this? You don't agree with Allah's command? WHAT THE HELL?!?!?!?!

lol

Just kiddinggggg :grinningkaur: .... I don't think anyone will get upset with this ...its YOUR body ..and you have every right to do whatever you want .... Having said that ---let me add --that even eye-plucking is not a big deal , in my opinion offcourse! In Prophet's time , the prostitutes used to pluck their eyesbrows and this was almost their 'sign of recognition' .. so due to THAT , I think , Prophet forbade Muslim women from plucking their eyebrows and drawing inappropriate attention towards them... But this is just my understanding of the issue..I personally find no problem with plucking eyebrows (even though its none of my businesses to begin with )

You can make them neat anyways ...

Welcome Ruqa -- Good the more and more Muslims have joined this forum!

Peace!!!

 

[Ruqa]

As.a wr wb. Ha ha ha! I read the first few lines of your post and thought 'oh here we go! Come on, bring it on!' lol So it's my body and I can do whatever I want hey?! Bet there are a quite a few muslims who dont agree with that... (Body on loan remember)But anyway I appreciate what you said and your approach to Islam. thanks.

 

[chazSingh]

I have a suggestion for you. Why don't you cut your kesh and see how you really feel? Now, you are just imagining what you may feel. After having the true experience, you will be able to find out what is right for you and then you will have the tools to get rid of your facade without kesh or with kesh if you decide to regrow it. - Tejwant

I AGREE COMPLETELY! As a matter of fact, that's my plan anyways :happy:.
Satnaam Caspian Ji,
the whole of SGGS Ji keeps lovingly telling us that we need to remember 'who we really are' to 'wake up' to experience our TRUE SELF i.e. the soul.
We are Soul, we are not body, body is temporary, soul is forever. Soul is the conscious element, the body isnt.
Soul is not bound by time and space and infinate. but how can it exist in a body bound by time and space.

The more (through gurbani) that you start to connect with your soul, and thus God, the more connected you will feel to god that exists in every pore of your body and also connected to the god in all of us and everything.

All the processes that exist, you will see the god energy behind it all driving creation. you will understand how the hair on your head absorbs solar energy and passes thorugh your crown, how this can helps your Simran and meditation helping you experience your own soul.

your mind will twist and turn you inside out making you feel one way then the other depending on external pressure. your priority if you really feel it deep down should be a longing to seek god. That longing pushes aside all the 'should i, should i not' or the 'why do i need to do this or that'.
The longing drives you forward and your internal guru guides you. all the answers will then come to you...

After this, you may have long hair, or you may have cut your hair...whatever it is, it'll be gods will and not your minds corrupt will.
all your actions will start to become natural, there wont be any doubt left in your mind about this or that.

If the longing to seek god isnt there yet then i would think it doesnt matter what you do with your hair. your mind will decide the course of action for you.

God bless all

 

[Gyani Jarnail Singh]

A Muslim TV Anchor in Malaysia... just shaved her head bald for a Cancer Charity Event...and raised a storm and a Fatwa issued ..her employer barred her form her job..etc tec..she did it becasue she wants to do some charity as her own family has had 3 cancer deaths..BUT many see this act as UNISLAMIC..hence the storm !!

 

[Luckysingh]

A little confusing here, I think that sister Ruqa would probably answer it more clearly.

The confusing, is the reasons for hair on different parts of the body.
so summarising

Hair on genitals- must shave ? is this required for both sexes ?
Hair on chin cheeks- ie sideburns, moustache,beard- allowed for both sexes, optional to
shave/trim ?
Hair on scalp- optional to shave/trim ?
Hair above eyebrows - optional to shave/trim ?
Hair in earlobes, nostrils- shave/trim only if noticeable ?

Could you clarify where the question marks are if acceptable or not and what grounds ?

It just seems like the same hair, in different places = different rules

Also, in the hygiene issue of shaving genital areas, is this a MUST, I mean does the females have to do it every menstrual month and when or how often do the males have to do it ?

 

[Ruqa]

A Muslim TV Anchor in Malaysia... just shaved her head bald for a Cancer Charity Event...and raised a storm and a Fatwa issued ..her employer barred her form her job..etc tec..she did it becasue she wants to do some charity as her own family has had 3 cancer deaths..BUT many see this act as UNISLAMIC..hence the storm !!

You see that attitude... You can do what you want as long as you don't go against their point of view. You can be an individual as long as you don't go against Islam. But! In Islam there are rulings pertaining to every aspect of your life so where's the individuality? My ex-husband (sheikh Fuwaad, is what I call him when he makes me mad) told me that a husband can give his wife talak if she cuts her hair or changes anything about her physical appearance without her husbands consent. Then his sister cut her hair into a short bob and I said to her 'haram you ******! Your husband can divorce you for that! Sheikh fuwaad told me so!' she was worried hehehe... I was trying to hide my amusement. My ex was angry at her but her husband didn't care. I said to her 'you see what I have to live with, why i'm stressed and paranoid?!' My ex told me he waged jihad everyday... Against his wife! Ha ha! I think this is why muslimas accept their husbands having more than one wife, because they want to get them out of their hair. 'take another wife and go annoy her I want time out! I'm sick of you' I know women that are co-wives they tell me they love their days off they don't bother to get dressed, they sit in front of the tv all day in their pj's watching anything they want, because when hubbys home he only allows educational programmes. Btw i'm not upset with islam its self, just with some extreme 'this way or you're going to hell' people, don't get me wrong .

 

[Ruqa]

A little confusing here, I think that sister Ruqa would probably answer it more clearly.

The confusing, is the reasons for hair on different parts of the body.
so summarising

Hair on genitals- must shave ? is this required for both sexes ?
Hair on chin cheeks- ie sideburns, moustache,beard- allowed for both sexes, optional to
shave/trim ?
Hair on scalp- optional to shave/trim ?
Hair above eyebrows - optional to shave/trim ?
Hair in earlobes, nostrils- shave/trim only if noticeable ?

Could you clarify where the question marks are if acceptable or not and what grounds ?

It just seems like the same hair, in different places = different rules

Also, in the hygiene issue of shaving genital areas, is this a MUST, I mean does the females have to do it every menstrual month and when or how often do the males have to do it ?

Genitals- must shave for both sexes. Beards- aren't really optional for men if the hair of the beard on a man grows to longer than a grain of rice he is not allowed to cut it. Don't know if thats long grain or short grain rice so lol lets be conservative and go with short grain or aborio rice or something the moustache should be trimmed. A woman shouldn't resemble a man so the hair on her head should be kept longer than her shoulders. For a man (scalp hair) I believe it is optional but i'm not sure. I had a book on rulings pertaining to maintenance of hair but I lent it out, so maybe a muslim man or someone else can answer that one because i'm more sure of the rulings for women. Above eyebrows, ear lobes, nostrils optional for both men and women. On the time you're allowed to delay hair maintenance of the armpits and genitals- preferably it should be done once every seven days and left no longer than 40days. I hope I answered everything and forgive me if i've gave the wrong answers I don't want to misinform you i'm sure someone will correct me if I have.
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