Nanak Is The Guru, Nanak Is The Lord Himself

[Sikh80]

Re: Nanak is the Guru, Nanak is the Lord Himself.

The whole world and Universe and the Three worlds is God and played by God.
ਪ੍ਰਭ ਕੀ ਜੋਤਿ ਸਗਲ ਘਟ ਸੋਹੈ ॥
प्रभ की जोति सगल घट सोहै ॥
parabh kee jot sagal ghat sohai.
the Light of God is in all hearts.
Guru Arjan Dev - view Shabad/Paurhi/Salok
Page 299, Line 17
ਸੂਖਮ ਅਸਥੂਲ ਸਗਲ ਭਗਵਾਨ ॥
सूखम असथूल सगल भगवान ॥
sookham asthool sagal bhagvaan.
The Lord God is in all mind and matter, subtle and manifest.
Guru Arjan Dev - view Shabad/Paurhi/Salok
.

ਨਾਨਕ ਵਜਦਾ ਜੰਤੁ ਵਜਾਇਆ ॥੨॥
नानक वजदा जंतु वजाइआ ॥२॥
naanak vajdaa jant vajaa-i-aa. ||2||
O Nanak, human beings are the instruments which vibrate as God plays them. ||2||
Guru Amar Das - view Shabad/Paurhi/Salok
Page 1311, Line 2
ਸੁਪਨੰਤਰੁ ਸੰਸਾਰੁ ਸਭੁ ਬਾਜੀ ਸਭੁ ਬਾਜੀ ਖੇਲੁ ਖਿਲਾਵੈਗੋ ॥
सुपनंतरु संसारु सभु बाजी सभु बाजी खेलु खिलावैगो ॥
supnantar sansaar sabh baajee sabh baajee khayl khilaavaigo.
The whole world is like a game in a dream, all a game. God plays and causes the game to be played.
Guru Ram Das - view Shabad/Paurhi/Salok


© SriGranth.org, a Sri Guru Granth Sahib resource, all rights reserved.

Re: Who is Guru Nanak?

 

[Sikh80]

Re: Nanak is the Guru, Nanak is the Lord Himself.

-dltd-

 

[Khojat]

Re: Nanak is the Guru, Nanak is the Lord Himself.

Dear Sikh80,

Thank you for your reply. I understand the basic confusion as expressed in your reply. I am sure there are many others with similar sentiments. We are not alone. Those of the Christian Faith have been facing these same questions for over 2000 years. We are only just starting to explore the depths of our own Faith.

To answer your questions, i first need to clarify some issues;

Firstly, all that I have stated is from the SGGS JI and is according to my interpretation of the same. God forgive me if I ahve put in anything other that the Word og the SGG JI. I have tried to be careful and not insert my own unguided views (guided by the SGGS Ji)

Secondly, in my first post, I stated that God and the Sat Guru are two seperate beings though intertwined and in constant communion. The Sat Guru is pure light and an Immaculate Soul.

As God pleases he selects a pure vessel (a worthy human body) that has proved itself and has reached the highest level of spiritual attainment. God by His Grace then infuses this being with His light and Word. The Light of the Sat Guru is now in an embodied state (has a physical body as opposed to only a spiritual one). The Sat Guru is given the task of teaching and spreding God's Name and Truthfulness to the World that has either gone astray or has forgotten its belief in the Tru One God. The Sat Guru is the closet that any moratl man will come to knowing or seeing God.

Thirdly, when you attempt to understand
God and his characteristics/virtues, you must be careful not to attribute human failings to Him such as Pride, Ego, Desire, etc. It is a very easy mistake to make. God is free from all such failings that afflict Man.

To answer your questions directly do note;

1. It is God, through the Sat Guru that is teaching the world His Praise. As you have out it, It is God Praising God. This is what it seems like at first Glance. Dig a little deeper and ask a few questions.
If God is free from such things as Pride and Ego, then what purpose does it serve for Him to create and generate His own praise. The answer may lie in the fact that Man has been seperated from God and that God has created the means for Man - His Children - to return to Him.
God has placed the means to Salvation and Reunion with the body of Man. However, it has been Hiddden. Man must find it again and make his way back to God.
God sends the Sat Guru just for this purpose. To bring his word and true religion to His lost Children.
The Sat Guru teached us the Word of God and the Love of God. He teaches us to Praise God from the botom of of hearts and from the depths of our Souls.
Those rare ones amongst us who heeds this advice and hold it dear to their hearts above all other things begin their Spiritual Journey back to God. Through God's praise, one comes to bear unconditional love to God, one comes to fear God and one comes to obey God. As this process continues, the man ascends the spiritual plane (Sat Guru Nanak mentions 5 such planes in the Japji Sahib). As he ascends higher he receives higher understanding and revelations about the universe, of all things and of God. He attains mental and spiritual prowess but ever remains humble in God's fear.
He continues to ascend until he reached the Tenth Gate and gains union with God. This can happen even while the man is alive on Earth.

This then is the purpose of God seemingly creating and perpetuating His own Praise. His Praise and His Word which he has infused into the Sat Guru is the Life line to be Given to His Children so that they will have the means to return to their Creator, if they have the will and if they are strong enough to do so. Those who are unable to are not abandoned but they are given continuous opportunities (rebirth). God will not abandon them unless they are the Cursed Ones.

The above, answers all your points raised. I hope it gives you some clarity in thought. No answer is ever complete. Each is subject to interpretation. This is mine.

GurFateh

 

[Sardara123]

Re: Nanak is the Guru, Nanak is the Lord Himself.

Khojat Ji,

1.What is your take on Guru Shabad-today's Hukamnaama: It is telling Hajoor-God is everywhere. Based on your post you say Guru is not God(this is what I am understanding from it, please forgive me if I misunderstood you):
How Can Guru is not God, But the rest of the universe is? Please can you explain it.

jh jh pyKau qh hjUir dUir kqhu n jweI ] riv rihAw srbqR mY mn sdw iDAweI ]1]



2. In the following Guru Shabad Guru Ji is telling that there is nobody equal to Guru God is also written in many different ways that tells that everywhere it is being talked about the same ONE. Ikonkaar. Please explain your take on it.

guru prmysru pwrbRhmu guru fubdw ley qrwie ]2]
ikqu muiK guru swlwhIAY krx kwrx smrQu ]
sy mQy inhcl rhy ijn guir DwirAw hQu ]
guir AMimRq nwmu pIAwilAw jnm mrn kw pQu ]
guru prmysru syivAw BY BMjnu duK lQu ]3]
siqguru gihr gBIru hY suK swgru AGKMfu ]
ijin guru syivAw Awpxw jmdUq n lwgY fMfu ]
gur nwil quil n lgeI Koij ifTw bRhmMfu ]
nwmu inDwnu siqguir dIAw suKu nwnk mn mih mMfu ]4]20]90]

Khojat Ji, I asked you this just for knowing how you came to this conclusion of yours that 'Guru is not God'.
I have no problem with you thinking like that, I just want to know how you reach to this conclusion based on the above GuruShabad.

I understand that we cant leave any line from Gurbani- All has to be taken as ONE-Ikonkaar.

Thanks for your time.

 

[Sikh80]

Re: Nanak is the Guru, Nanak is the Lord Himself.

Respected Khojat ji,

I thank you once again for a wonderful and instructive post. My knowledge is fairly limited and I shall not speculate again on the meanings that are fairly established and are reflected in your post as well. I have checked up again in the Teeka of Dr. sahib singh ji and all that you stated is correct.

Gurus are embodiment of the almighty.


Thanks and regards for sparing time.

 

[Pyramid]

Re: Nanak is the Guru, Nanak is the Lord Himself.

Khojat Ji,

Please comment on the follwing Vaak:

ਸਭੁ ਕਿਛੁ ਆਪੇ ਆਪਿ ਹੈ ਦੂਜਾ ਅਵਰੁ ਨ ਕੋਇ ॥
sabh kishh aapae aap hai dhoojaa avar n koe ||
He Himself is everything; there is no other at all.


in the light of your own teachings, as this one is also in the contradiction of yours, but you say you are guided by GURBANI- this is Gurbani.


Waheguru

Tuhada Das
Yograj

 

[Sikh80]

Re: Nanak is the Guru, Nanak is the Lord Himself.

Someviews Of Sikhnet.com
I couldn't find a straight answer.....
Anyways i will try and explain,my understanding,feel free to question it.

Guru Nanak ji is not GOD.He is a messenger of GOD like Jesus Christ, i have trouble digesting it,becaus eof how sikhism is defined.

SO who is Guru Nanak ji or any other Guru...Well as we all call them they are Guru, teachers,people who can show us and help us to be on the right path.

Sikhs are disciples. Disciple of something good i.e. Sikh religion. Guru Nak ji didi not established Sikhsim but but he created Sikhs i.e. disciples by showing a way of living that was completly different from any other religion.

Should we call him a GOD then, no because he has shown the path and we need to follow it.

SO Guru Nanak ji is our Guru and as good disciples we have good faith in him.

Regards.

 

[Sikh80]

Re: Nanak is the Guru, Nanak is the Lord Himself.

The answer is:

Guru Nanak is Satguru.
No.2
Now it is upto the interested person to find out what is "Satguru" by looking into the Sri Guru Granth Sahib.

 

[Sikh80]

Re: Nanak is the Guru, Nanak is the Lord Himself.

No.3
In this thread I feel via Bani its amply been that Guru Nanak Dev Ji was God’s chosen one. And that Guruji was not Waheguru.
Our Gurus attribute their Bani to Guru Nanak and this is a pointer to the continuity in Sikhism and that the Jyot of Guru Nanak Dev Ji passed onto all our Gurus.

We must realize the difference Waheguru and Guru. The difference becomes abs clear via Mool Mantra and Jaap Sahib.

The following stanzas also show the difference:
(Ang 819-18, Bilawal Mahall 5)
kaho naanak kirpaa bha-ee parabh bha-ay sahaa-ee. ||2||15||79||
Says Nanak, God has showered me with His Mercy; He has become my help and support. ||2||15||79||
Ang 820-2, Bilawal Mahalla 5)
man baaNchhat fal diti-an naanak balihaaree. ||2||16||80||
I have been blessed with the fruits of my mind's desires; Nanak is a sacrifice to Him. ||2||16||80||

 

[Sikh80]

Re: Nanak is the Guru, Nanak is the Lord Himself.

No.4
Could it be that Guruji is saying ; that Waheguruji is a Brahamgyani?
Its like saying Guru Gobind Singh ji was a Khalsa but that does not mean Khalsas are Guruji.

I say this because I humbly feel that as per Mool Mantra there is only one God and there is no mention of anything else.

And then in Jaap Sahib Guruji salutes God who cannot be born and cannot die.

God forgive me if I'm wrong.

 

[Sikh80]

Re: Nanak is the Guru, Nanak is the Lord Himself.

No.5
My understanding is that there are two souls : Jivatma and Paramatma
Jivatama is imbued with the poetentiality of Paramatma. So long as Jivatama does not realize its divine potentiality , it roams in incarnations (Junis)...like a dreamer dreaming dreams. As soon as it realizes its true potential , it becomes one with Paramatma, realizing that its separation from Paramatma was a mere play of Maya or a drunk man's dream.

Once woken from the dream, the dreamer dreams no more , i.e, he becomes 'Ajuni'.

Jivatma that has developed complete knowledge of Parmatma becomes Paramatma himself like the the wave merges back into the stillness of water. In that state Jivatma escapes thraldom of incarnations and becomes 'Ajuni'.

The knower of Brahm become Brahmn. Knowing is becoming.

I believe Guru Nanak was a fully illumined knower of Brahm and in that respect he was the expression of Brahm Himself. Sukmani Sahab provides the basis of this understanding.

 

[Sikh80]

Re: Nanak is the Guru, Nanak is the Lord Himself.

The line from page 1387 you quoted is interesting.

If one analyses it on the basis of Gurbani Grammer in the original Gurmukhi form it has an 'aunkar' each for the words 'Jan' 'Nanak' and 'Gur'. On the other hand the word 'Parbrahm' has no 'aunkar'.

Usually when a masculine singular word is without any aunkar it represents an entity or person being addressed. In this case the writer Bhatt is addressing 'Parbrahm' and saying that 'Nanak(u)' who is your(Parbrahm's) 'Jan(u)' or sevak, and is 'Gur(u)'as well, in this world has become apparent (Pargat) in your (Har's) entire world (sagal jagat). The 'aunkar' in this situation represents the auxilliary verb 'is' or 'hai' in Punjabi thus rendering the above words as 'Nanak hai', 'Sevak hai', and 'Guru hai'.

The overall meaning as given by Prof. Sahib Singh in Guru Granth Darpan also is

"Tera sevak, he Parbrahm, tera roop Guru Nanak sare jagat vich pargat hoia hai"

Thus, the writer Bhatt of these swayiaas is addressing Parbarahm to refer to Guru Nanak as a human person as a roop of His as indeed all creation is His roop. (see 'Eh vis sansar tum dekhde, ih har ka roop hai, har roop nadri ayia. in Ramkali Anand Sahib).
No.6
I hope this resolves the apparent contradiction that Ajuni God or Waheguru cannot be a person born from a womb.

 

[Sikh80]

Re: Nanak is the Guru, Nanak is the Lord Himself.

No.7
Guru Nanak Dev ji has said in Mool Mantra that God is 'ajooni'. Tenth Nanak Guru Gobind Singh ji in Jaap Sahib too has said the same. And has gone to the extent of saying that if anyone equates/calls him God then this person will go to hell.

In fact this points to a problem. There are some translations of Sri Granth Sahib ji which are incorrect.

 

[Sikh80]

Re: Nanak is the Guru, Nanak is the Lord Himself.

The Concept of God as Creator in Sikhism​

Dr. Debabrata Das*​

* Scholar of Philosophy and comparative religion. Address: 19/5, Pottery Road, Kolkata-700 015 India.

 

[Sikh80]

Re: Nanak is the Guru, Nanak is the Lord Himself.

In the following line Guru sahib states that he has seen the GOD.The obvious reference would be the Supreme the truth the Sat. Guru sahibs is telling his experience.

khu nwnk hir isau mnu mwinAw so pRBu nYxI fITw ]1] (452-13, Awsw, mÚ 5)
Says Nanak, my mind is in harmony with the Lord; I have seen God with my eyes. ||1||[/FONT]​

 

[Sikh80]

Re: Nanak is the Guru, Nanak is the Lord Himself.

ਚਉਥੈ ਪਹਰੈ ਰੈਣਿ ਕੈ ਵਣਜਾਰਿਆ ਮਿਤ੍ਰਾ ਹਰਿ ਚਲਣ ਵੇਲਾ ਆਦੀ ॥ ਕਰਿ ਸੇਵਹੁ ਪੂਰਾ ਸਤਿਗੁਰੂ ਵਣਜਾਰਿਆ ਮਿਤ੍ਰਾ ਸਭ ਚਲੀ ਰੈਣਿ ਵਿਹਾਦੀ ॥ ਹਰਿ ਸੇਵਹੁ ਖਿਨੁ ਖਿਨੁ ਢਿਲ ਮੂਲਿ ਨ ਕਰਿਹੁ ਜਿਤੁ ਅਸਥਿਰੁ ਜੁਗੁ ਜੁਗੁ ਹੋਵਹੁ ॥ ਹਰਿ ਸੇਤੀ ਸਦ ਮਾਣਹੁ ਰਲੀਆ ਜਨਮ ਮਰਣ ਦੁਖ ਖੋਵਹੁ ॥ ਗੁਰ ਸਤਿਗੁਰ ਸੁਆਮੀ ਭੇਦੁ ਨ ਜਾਣਹੁ ਜਿਤੁ ਮਿਲਿ ਹਰਿ ਭਗਤਿ ਸੁਖਾਂਦੀ ॥ ਕਹੁ ਨਾਨਕ ਪ੍ਰਾਣੀ ਚਉਥੈ ਪਹਰੈ ਸਫਲਿਓ*ੁ ਰੈਣਿ ਭਗਤਾ ਦੀ ॥੪॥੧॥੩॥ {ਪੰਨਾ 77}​

************************************************** **********************

pdArQ:- AwdI—ilAWdw hY, lY AwauNdw hY (AWdI) [ kir pUrw—pUrw jwx ky, ABu`l jwx ky [ syvhu—srnI pvo [ rYix—rwq, aumr [ clI ivhwdI—lµGdI jw rhI hY [
************************************************** ************************

iKnu iKnu—hryk iKn (ivc), suAws suAws [ syvhu—ismro[ mUil—iblkul hI [ ijqu—ijs (au~dm) dI rwhIN [ AsiQru—At`l, At`l Awqmk jIvn vwly [ rlIAw—Awqmk Awnµd [ jnm mrx duK—jnm mrn dy gyV ivc pwx vwly du`K [ Bydu—&rk [ ijqu—ijs (gurU) ivc [ imil—iml ky, juV ky [ suKWdI—ipAwrI l`gdI hY [ sPilau—{not:- ‘a’ dy nwl do mwqrw hn u Aqy o [ Asl l&z hY ‘sPilE’, ieQy ‘siPlau’ pVHnw hY [4[
************************************************** **************************

ArQ:- hir-nwm dw vxj krn Awey hy jIv-imqR! (izMdgI dI rwq dy) cOQy phr prmwqmw (jIv dy ie`QoN) qurn dw smw lY (hI) AwauNdw hY [ hy vxjwry jIv-imqR! gurU nUµ ABu`l jwx ky gurU dI srn pvo, (izMdgI dI) swrI rwq bIqdI jw rhI hY [ (hy jIv-imqR!) suAws suAws prmwqmw dw nwm ismro, (ies kMm ivc) iblkul Awls nwh kro, ismrn dI brkiq nwl hI sdw vwsqy At`l Awqmk jIvn vwly bx skogy [ (hy jIv-imqR! ismrn dI brkiq nwl hI) prmwqmw dy imlwp dw Awnµd sdw mwxogy qy jnm mrn dy gyV iv`c pwx vwly duKwN ƒ mukw skygw [

(hy jIv-imqR!) gurU qy prmwqmw ivc (rqw BI) &rk nwh smJo gurU (dy crnwN) iv`c juV ky hI prmwqmw dI BgqI ipAwrI l`gdI hY [

************************************************** *******
[/FONT] Pk 70 and namjap ji,

We are all learning and it shall continue till the final call. We are all acting as per HIS hukum.
I have posted above the translation of Dr.Sahib Singh ji that shows that there is perfect alignment with that you have stated.
The above shall be helpful to those knowing Gurmukhi. However, that pk70 ji has stated is the essence of this shabad as per Sahib singh ji's version as well.
********************************************************

[/FONT]Note:The above has also been posted in the Thread of 'Stop disrespecting.....'
The post of pk70 is equally relevant in this thread also.

Bhul chuk Mauf

 

[Sikh80]

Re: Nanak is the Guru, Nanak is the Lord Himself.

Guru and word : A Pause


There are many threads going on guru and gurmukh.It is imperative to clarify few things. At the moment I am reminded of a line that I am sharing with you. It is all subject to discussion and correction.I am constrained to keep this in this thread as Guru nanak is being discussed here.



In my humble opinion,there should be no difference between the 'Word of God'/shabad and God Himself.

[Recapitulation:The Guru is not a physical body made of the five element, i.e. flesh & blood or ink and paper. Guru Nanak Sahib Ji was asked by Sidhs (mystics) living in the Himalayas,
"Who is your Guru and who's disciple are you?" The Guru replied:

ਸਬਦੁ ਗੁਰੂ ਸੁਰਤਿ ਧੁਨਿ ਚੇਲਾ ॥
"The Shabad is the Guru, upon whom I lovingly focus my consciousness; I am the chaylaa, the disciple." (Ang 943)
​

The Shabad [the Divine Infinite Wisdom] is the Guru.

The Guru is not physical but was manifested and revealed through a body. The body is praise-worthy and respect-worthy as it contained the Divine Light, lived the message and interpreted the 'Shabad'.

For this reason , even bowing to SGGS ji is a sign of submission before the ‘Word of God’. It is not worshipping the physical body. [It includes Granth (Scripture) form or when Guru Sahibaan were in human form the human body, it is a submission to the ‘Shabad’/ the Divine Infinite Wisdom]

There are very many uses of the term 'shabad' that can be explored further if someone feels interested. Besides indicating 'Guru' it has very many meanings depending upon the context.

I regret that the thread has been not properly linked so far as the Katha is linked. It would be reposted after a time.


[/FONT]

 

[Sikh80]

Re: Nanak is the Guru, Nanak is the Lord Himself.

Meaning of "
I have seen god with my eyes

*******************************************************

ਹਰਿ ਕੀਆ ਕਥਾ ਕਹਾਣੀਆ ਮੇਰੇ ਪਿਆਰੇ ਸਤਿਗੁਰੂ ਸੁਣਾਈਆ ॥ ਗੁਰ ਵਿਟੜਿਅਹੁ ਹਉ ਘੋਲੀ ਮੇਰੇ ਪਿਆਰੇ ਜਿਨਿ ਹਰਿ ਮੇਲਾਈਆ ॥ ਸਭਿ ਆਸਾ ਹਰਿ ਪੂਰੀਆ ਮੇਰੇ ਪਿਆਰੇ ਮਨਿ ਚਿੰਦਿਅੜਾ ਫਲੁ ਪਾਇਆ ॥ ਹਰਿ ਤੁਠੜਾ ਮੇਰੇ ਪਿਆਰੇ ਜਨੁ ਨਾਨਕੁ ਨਾਮਿ ਸਮਾਇਆ ॥੫॥ {ਪੰਨਾ 452}

pdArQ:- ivtiVAhu—qoN [ hau—mYN [ GolI—sdky [ ijin—ijs (gurU) ny [ siB—swrIAW [ min icMidAVw—mn ivc icqivAw hoieAw [ quTVw—pRsMn [ nwim—nwm ivc [ nwnku—(AwKdw hY) [5[


ArQ:- hy myry ipAwry! mYƒ gurU ny prmwqmw dIAW is&iq-swlwh dIAW g`lW suxweIAW hn, mYN aus gurU qoN sdky jWdI hW ijs ny mYƒ pRBU-pqI dy crnW ivc joV id`qw hY [ hy myry ipAwry! pRBU ny myrIAW swrIAW AwsW pUrIAW kr id`qIAW hn, pRBU pwsy mYN mn-icqivAw Pl pw ilAw hY [


nwnk (AwKdw hY—) hy myry ipAwry! ijs (vf-BwgI mnu`K auqy) prmwqmw dieAwvwn huMdw hY auh prmwqmw dy nwm ivc lIn ho jWdw hY [5[





Thanks Bhagat for pointing out that it may be a metaphor.

 

[Khojat]

Re: Nanak is the Guru, Nanak is the Lord Himself.

Dear Sardar123,

You must be careful with the terms and words you use. When you use the word Guru, who are you referring to?

The Guru of Nanak is God Himself. So the Guru is God. God Himself conferred the Titile of "Sat Guru" upon Nanak.This clarification should end the discussion here itself but I think I may understand the question you are trying to pose and woudl like to clarify if I may.

If yoou refer to my earlier post, I mentioned that as per the Bani of the SGGS Ji, when God made Himself manifest he did so by means of the Word and the SatGuru. From this did the universe eminate. The Light of God was in the bani and the Sat Guru. The Entire creation also eminated from the same Supreme Lord, our God. Within each life is contained God's light. Even the inanimate is infused with his Light and Being.

The SGGS tell us that God is All Prevading and that He is present in water, earth and the firmaments. God Light prevades the Heavenly Regions and the Nether Regions. God is in His Creation and His Creation is contained within Him.

In the Creation is His Light and in His Light is the Creation.

All the Creation is His manisfestion. In the same way the Sat Guru and the Bani are his manifestation. God however is not simply the sum of His parts as it were (God forgive me for using such an analogy), he is greater than that. There are qualities that are unknown to anyone or any being, perhaps even unknown to the Sat Guru. God afterall is both Sargun and Nirgun.

The Sat Guru is one aspect and manifestation of God, whom he sends when the world falls into darkeness and cries to the Creator for help. Within the Sat Guru is the Bani and the Light of God. God speaks through the Holy mouth of the Sat Guru. Although God (Guru) and the Sat Guru are two seperate entities they are intertwined and are in constant communion. He who looks to the Sat Guru will see the Divine Light, The Light which is God shining brightly within Him. That is why it is said that if you have seen or heard Sat Guru Nanak, you have seen and heard God Himself.

Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa
Siri Waheguru Ji Ki Fathe

Khojat Ji,

1.What is your take on Guru Shabad-today's Hukamnaama: It is telling Hajoor-God is everywhere. Based on your post you say Guru is not God(this is what I am understanding from it, please forgive me if I misunderstood you):
How Can Guru is not God, But the rest of the universe is? Please can you explain it.

jh jh pyKau qh hjUir dUir kqhu n jweI ] riv rihAw srbqR mY mn sdw iDAweI ]1]



2. In the following Guru Shabad Guru Ji is telling that there is nobody equal to Guru God is also written in many different ways that tells that everywhere it is being talked about the same ONE. Ikonkaar. Please explain your take on it.

guru prmysru pwrbRhmu guru fubdw ley qrwie ]2]
ikqu muiK guru swlwhIAY krx kwrx smrQu ]
sy mQy inhcl rhy ijn guir DwirAw hQu ]
guir AMimRq nwmu pIAwilAw jnm mrn kw pQu ]
guru prmysru syivAw BY BMjnu duK lQu ]3]
siqguru gihr gBIru hY suK swgru AGKMfu ]
ijin guru syivAw Awpxw jmdUq n lwgY fMfu ]
gur nwil quil n lgeI Koij ifTw bRhmMfu ]
nwmu inDwnu siqguir dIAw suKu nwnk mn mih mMfu ]4]20]90]

Khojat Ji, I asked you this just for knowing how you came to this conclusion of yours that 'Guru is not God'.
I have no problem with you thinking like that, I just want to know how you reach to this conclusion based on the above GuruShabad.

I understand that we cant leave any line from Gurbani- All has to be taken as ONE-Ikonkaar.

Thanks for your time.

 

[Khojat]

Re: Nanak is the Guru, Nanak is the Lord Himself.

Dear Sardar 123,

The bani of the SGGS Ji is clear that God and the Sat Guru are two seperate beings.

The Light and Word of God (Guru) are vested within the Sat Guru. The Sat Guru is a a pure soul and of pure light in the unembodied form. As and when it pleases God (Guru), he commands the Sat Guru to enter a Holy Body. One that has proved itself and one that has attained the highest level of spiritual awareness. Unto this being the Light and Word of God are infused.

The SGGS tells us the the Sat Guru has been coming to Earth throughout the 4 ages. This means that the Sat Guru ahs appeared many items in different bodies and thought Men how to worship and commune with God.

The Sat Guru is the closet thing to God that any mortal being has seen or heard. In this sense the Sat Guru is God. This distinct from the concept that God takes the form of a human being and is born in this world. The Japji Sahib clearly rejects this concept. God is unborn. The Sat Guru through all the ages is born of woman. None have appeared out of thin air.

Khojat Ji,

1.What is your take on Guru Shabad-today's Hukamnaama: It is telling Hajoor-God is everywhere. Based on your post you say Guru is not God(this is what I am understanding from it, please forgive me if I misunderstood you):
How Can Guru is not God, But the rest of the universe is? Please can you explain it.

jh jh pyKau qh hjUir dUir kqhu n jweI ] riv rihAw srbqR mY mn sdw iDAweI ]1]



2. In the following Guru Shabad Guru Ji is telling that there is nobody equal to Guru God is also written in many different ways that tells that everywhere it is being talked about the same ONE. Ikonkaar. Please explain your take on it.

guru prmysru pwrbRhmu guru fubdw ley qrwie ]2]
ikqu muiK guru swlwhIAY krx kwrx smrQu ]
sy mQy inhcl rhy ijn guir DwirAw hQu ]
guir AMimRq nwmu pIAwilAw jnm mrn kw pQu ]
guru prmysru syivAw BY BMjnu duK lQu ]3]
siqguru gihr gBIru hY suK swgru AGKMfu ]
ijin guru syivAw Awpxw jmdUq n lwgY fMfu ]
gur nwil quil n lgeI Koij ifTw bRhmMfu ]
nwmu inDwnu siqguir dIAw suKu nwnk mn mih mMfu ]4]20]90]

Khojat Ji, I asked you this just for knowing how you came to this conclusion of yours that 'Guru is not God'.
I have no problem with you thinking like that, I just want to know how you reach to this conclusion based on the above GuruShabad.

I understand that we cant leave any line from Gurbani- All has to be taken as ONE-Ikonkaar.

Thanks for your time.