Nanak Is The Guru, Nanak Is The Lord Himself
Sardara123
SPNer
- Jan 9, 2008
- 400
- 7
Re: Nanak is the Guru; Nanak is the Lord Himself.
joiq rUip hir Awip gurU nwnku khwXau ]
qw qy AMgdu BXau qq isau qqu imlwXau ]
AMgid ikrpw Dwir Amru siqguru iQru kIAau ]
Amrdwis Amrqu CqRü gur rwmih dIAau ]
gur rwmdws drsnu pris kih mQurw AMimRq bXx ]
mUriq pMc pRmwx purKu guru Arjunu ipKhu nXx ]1]
The Embodiment of Light, the Lord Himself is called Guru Nanak.
From Him, came Guru Angad; His essence was absorbed into the essence.
Guru Angad showed His Mercy, and established Amar Daas as the True Guru.
Guru Amar Daas blessed Guru Raam Daas with the umbrella of immortality.
So speaks Mat'huraa: gazing upon the Blessed Vision, the Darshan of Guru Raam Daas, His speech became as sweet as nectar.
With your eyes, see the certified Primal Person, Guru Arjun, the Fifth Manifestation of the Guru. ||1||
joiq rUip hir Awip gurU nwnku khwXau ]
qw qy AMgdu BXau qq isau qqu imlwXau ]
AMgid ikrpw Dwir Amru siqguru iQru kIAau ]
Amrdwis Amrqu CqRü gur rwmih dIAau ]
gur rwmdws drsnu pris kih mQurw AMimRq bXx ]
mUriq pMc pRmwx purKu guru Arjunu ipKhu nXx ]1]
The Embodiment of Light, the Lord Himself is called Guru Nanak.
From Him, came Guru Angad; His essence was absorbed into the essence.
Guru Angad showed His Mercy, and established Amar Daas as the True Guru.
Guru Amar Daas blessed Guru Raam Daas with the umbrella of immortality.
So speaks Mat'huraa: gazing upon the Blessed Vision, the Darshan of Guru Raam Daas, His speech became as sweet as nectar.
With your eyes, see the certified Primal Person, Guru Arjun, the Fifth Manifestation of the Guru. ||1||
AmbarDhara
SPNer
- Jan 9, 2008
- 271
- 6
Re: Nanak is the Guru; Nanak is the Lord Himself.
'Nanak Bani Nirankaar' says:
'Nanak Bani Nirankaar' says:
gond mehlaa 5.
Gond, Fifth Mehl:
Gond, Fifth Mehl:
gur mayree poojaa gur gobind.
I worship and adore my Guru; the Guru is the Lord of the Universe.
I worship and adore my Guru; the Guru is the Lord of the Universe.
gur mayraa paarbarahm gur bhagvant.
My Guru is the Supreme Lord God; the Guru is the Lord God.
My Guru is the Supreme Lord God; the Guru is the Lord God.
gur mayraa day-o alakh abhay-o.
My Guru is divine, invisible and mysterious.
My Guru is divine, invisible and mysterious.
sarab pooj charan gur say-o. ||1||
I serve at the Guru's feet, which are worshipped by all. ||1||
I serve at the Guru's feet, which are worshipped by all. ||1||
gur bin avar naahee mai thaa-o.
Without the Guru, I have no other place at all.
Without the Guru, I have no other place at all.
an-din japa-o guroo gur naa-o. ||1|| rahaa-o.
Night and day, I chant the Name of Guru, Guru. ||1||Pause||
Night and day, I chant the Name of Guru, Guru. ||1||Pause||
gur mayraa gi-aan gur ridai Dhi-aan.
The Guru is my spiritual wisdom, the Guru is the meditation within my heart.
The Guru is my spiritual wisdom, the Guru is the meditation within my heart.
gur gopaal purakh bhagvaan.
The Guru is the Lord of the World, the Primal Being, the Lord God.
The Guru is the Lord of the World, the Primal Being, the Lord God.
gur kee saran raha-o kar jor.
With my palms pressed together, I remain in the Guru's Sanctuary.
With my palms pressed together, I remain in the Guru's Sanctuary.
guroo binaa mai naahee hor. ||2||
Without the Guru, I have no other at all. ||2||
Without the Guru, I have no other at all. ||2||
gur bohith taaray bhav paar.
The Guru is the boat to cross over the terrifying world-ocean.
The Guru is the boat to cross over the terrifying world-ocean.
gur sayvaa jam tay chhutkaar.
Serving the Guru, one is released from the Messenger of Death.
Serving the Guru, one is released from the Messenger of Death.
anDhkaar meh gur mantar ujaaraa.
In the darkness, the Guru's Mantra shines forth.
In the darkness, the Guru's Mantra shines forth.
gur kai sang sagal nistaaraa. ||3||
With the Guru, all are saved. ||3||
With the Guru, all are saved. ||3||
gur pooraa paa-ee-ai vadbhaagee.
The Perfect Guru is found, by great good fortune.
The Perfect Guru is found, by great good fortune.
gur kee sayvaa dookh na laagee.
Serving the Guru, pain does not afflict anyone.
Serving the Guru, pain does not afflict anyone.
gur kaa sabad na maytai ko-ay.
No one can erase the Word of the Guru's Shabad.
No one can erase the Word of the Guru's Shabad.
gur naanak naanak har so-ay. ||4||7||9||
Nanak is the Guru; Nanak is the Lord Himself. ||4||7||9||
Nanak is the Guru; Nanak is the Lord Himself. ||4||7||9||
Sardara123
SPNer
- Jan 9, 2008
- 400
- 7
Sardara123
SPNer
- Jan 9, 2008
- 400
- 7
Re: Nanak is the Guru; Nanak is the Lord Himself.
Re: Nanak is the Guru; Nanak is the Lord Himself.
Guru nanak ji who authored Mool Mantra stated......
Ik Ongkaar..Satnaam..
He is one...He is The truth....
Guru ji is telling us about One creator...How can Nanak dev ji who praised the creator become a creator.?What ever you are saying is recorded as a praise fo the Guru.
Guru nanak ji who authored Mool Mantra stated......
Ik Ongkaar..Satnaam..
He is one...He is The truth....
Guru ji is telling us about One creator...How can Nanak dev ji who praised the creator become a creator.?What ever you are saying is recorded as a praise fo the Guru.
AmbarDhara
SPNer
- Jan 9, 2008
- 271
- 6
Re: Nanak is the Guru; Nanak is the Lord Himself.
Sikh80 have you read all of SGGS Ji?
Sikh80 have you read all of SGGS Ji?
AmbarDhara
SPNer
- Jan 9, 2008
- 271
- 6
Re: Nanak is the Guru; Nanak is the Lord Himself.
This is not the answer to my question Sikh80.
I asked: have you read all of SGGS JI?
As you are getting your answers from here and there, it seems you have not.
If you want to disscuss this further - go and read all of SGGS Ji and find out how many times
SGGS JI ( with your assistance I perceived it to be 'Nanak Bani Nirankaar', thanks for this parupkaar) talks about
GOD CREATED HIMSELF.
GOD PERVADES AND PERMEATS EVERYTHING.
GOD IS EVERYTHING.
GURU IS GOD.
GOD IS GURU.
His creation and He Himself all the same.
The same 'Nanak Bani Nirankaar' says:
Guru Nanak Dev is God.
You are giving the argument :we dont know Him existance, we cannot describe God ., Nanak cannot be God. Translation of Gurbani is wrong, it cannot be so.
At many many places it is said: There is no distinction between Guru and God.
Three simple questions I ask you Sikh80:
1. Are you considering yourself better and bigger than Gurbani, as you argue that it is wrong. as Bani says 'Guru Nanak is God'. And it says itself: 'vaho vaho bani nirankaar hai.' Look it is telling us that it is great and nobody is equal to it. Do you still consider yourself bigger and better than Gurbani: which says- There is no distinction between God and Guru.
2.Is Guru Nanak not Brahmgyani?
as Bani says: brahmgyani aap parmesar.
3. Is Guru Nanak not included in everything?
as Bani says: All is God Himself.
another note:
'Nanak Bani Nirankaar' does say:
As I have seen Him, so have I described Him.
This is not the answer to my question Sikh80.
I asked: have you read all of SGGS JI?
As you are getting your answers from here and there, it seems you have not.
If you want to disscuss this further - go and read all of SGGS Ji and find out how many times
SGGS JI ( with your assistance I perceived it to be 'Nanak Bani Nirankaar', thanks for this parupkaar) talks about
GOD CREATED HIMSELF.
GOD PERVADES AND PERMEATS EVERYTHING.
GOD IS EVERYTHING.
GURU IS GOD.
GOD IS GURU.
His creation and He Himself all the same.
The same 'Nanak Bani Nirankaar' says:
Guru Nanak Dev is God.
You are giving the argument :we dont know Him existance, we cannot describe God ., Nanak cannot be God. Translation of Gurbani is wrong, it cannot be so.
At many many places it is said: There is no distinction between Guru and God.
Three simple questions I ask you Sikh80:
1. Are you considering yourself better and bigger than Gurbani, as you argue that it is wrong. as Bani says 'Guru Nanak is God'. And it says itself: 'vaho vaho bani nirankaar hai.' Look it is telling us that it is great and nobody is equal to it. Do you still consider yourself bigger and better than Gurbani: which says- There is no distinction between God and Guru.
2.Is Guru Nanak not Brahmgyani?
as Bani says: brahmgyani aap parmesar.
3. Is Guru Nanak not included in everything?
as Bani says: All is God Himself.
another note:
'Nanak Bani Nirankaar' does say:
As I have seen Him, so have I described Him.
- Jul 14, 2007
- 4,576
- 1,609
Re: Nanak is the Guru; Nanak is the Lord Himself.
YouTube - Bhai Sarabjeet Singh - Vahu Vahu Bani Nirankaar Hai
YouTube - Bhai Sarabjeet Singh - Vahu Vahu Bani Nirankaar Hai
Re: Nanak is the Guru; Nanak is the Lord Himself.
Ek Ongkar satnaam
He Is One ;The Truth....
Nanak dev ji..telling attributes Of God/Creator...Nanak ji cannot be the one who Created HIM...
Nanak dev ji authored Mool Mantra......
waho waho Bani nirankaar hi......
[ if you follow Bani you may meet HIM]
Bani in itself is just few words.
Brahmgyani aap parmeshwar...
Brahmgyani becomes equal to the parmeshwar ;But ; But; Brahmgyani is not himself the parmeshwar........
Parmeshwar is ONE ..ONLY one...and that is sikhi......
waho waho bani Nirankaar hi............
Ek Ongkar satnaam
He Is One ;The Truth....
Nanak dev ji..telling attributes Of God/Creator...Nanak ji cannot be the one who Created HIM...
Nanak dev ji authored Mool Mantra......
waho waho Bani nirankaar hi......
[ if you follow Bani you may meet HIM]
Bani in itself is just few words.
Brahmgyani aap parmeshwar...
Brahmgyani becomes equal to the parmeshwar ;But ; But; Brahmgyani is not himself the parmeshwar........
Parmeshwar is ONE ..ONLY one...and that is sikhi......
waho waho bani Nirankaar hi............
AmbarDhara
SPNer
- Jan 9, 2008
- 271
- 6
Re: Nanak is the Guru; Nanak is the Lord Himself.
So you saying 'Brahmgyani is not aap parmesar'
What is the difference of being equal and not being? And Why Gurbani says again and again that there is no distinction between God and Guru?
also tell me what does it mean by:
Brahmgyani ka nahi binaas?
Why did you leave the question 1 and 3?
ONE CREATOR , KARTA AS WELL AS SAT.
PURKH AS WELL. Naam as well.
'Jeta Keeta Teta Nao.'
God created Himself- is being said in Gurbani so many times. So how can one even question the same Gurbani that tells Guru Nanak is God, Creator created Himself, exactly Gurbani says.
THERE IS NOTHING BUT GOD.
So it is so simple: Guru Nanak is God.
So you saying 'Brahmgyani is not aap parmesar'
What is the difference of being equal and not being? And Why Gurbani says again and again that there is no distinction between God and Guru?
also tell me what does it mean by:
Brahmgyani ka nahi binaas?
Why did you leave the question 1 and 3?
ONE CREATOR , KARTA AS WELL AS SAT.
PURKH AS WELL. Naam as well.
'Jeta Keeta Teta Nao.'
God created Himself- is being said in Gurbani so many times. So how can one even question the same Gurbani that tells Guru Nanak is God, Creator created Himself, exactly Gurbani says.
THERE IS NOTHING BUT GOD.
So it is so simple: Guru Nanak is God.
BhagatSingh
SPNer
- Apr 24, 2006
- 2,921
- 1,657
Re: Nanak is the Guru; Nanak is the Lord Himself.
There you go, you are getting it now! there is nothing but GOD. Therefore, everything is a part of him, it doesn't matter if it is Guru Nanak or me or you or that piece of poop. God is everywhere! :}{}{}:
There you go, you are getting it now! there is nothing but GOD. Therefore, everything is a part of him, it doesn't matter if it is Guru Nanak or me or you or that piece of poop. God is everywhere! :}{}{}:
BhagatSingh
SPNer
- Apr 24, 2006
- 2,921
- 1,657
Re: Nanak is the Guru; Nanak is the Lord Himself.
Brahmgyani is God = metaphor which means it should not be taken in the literal sense
Brahmgyani is like God would be the simile version of it.
Brahmgyani ka nahi binaas! another metaphhor... :hmm:
Its a metaphor for God's sake! Brahmgyani aap parmesar is saying that one who becomes Brahmgyani is like God! (simile)
Brahmgyani is God = metaphor which means it should not be taken in the literal sense
Brahmgyani is like God would be the simile version of it.
Brahmgyani ka nahi binaas! another metaphhor... :hmm:
Why do u care if Sikh80 has read all of SGGS? Sikh80 is presenting his aruguments using SGGS and that's all that matters.
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Re: Nanak is the Guru; Nanak is the Lord Himself.
I think it would be advisable if we revise our concepts about God in sikhism.Below is reproduced a standard article from Wikipedia and will be helpful in revising the concepts.We can proceed ahead with the discussion, if required.
**********************
God in Sikhism
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
I think it would be advisable if we revise our concepts about God in sikhism.Below is reproduced a standard article from Wikipedia and will be helpful in revising the concepts.We can proceed ahead with the discussion, if required.
**********************
God in Sikhism
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Last edited:
Re: Nanak is the Guru; Nanak is the Lord Himself.
Guru Piayario Jio,
Gurfateh.
Reminds me of the poem.."The Six blind men of Hindoostan"...i read when i was in Primary school.
It goes like this....Six blind men went to "see" an elephant.... the first one touched its tail..and concluded the "Elephant" is like a rope/snake..
The second one touched its side...and concluded an "Elephant" is like a wall....the third one touched its tusks and concluded an "elephant" is like a sword..the fourth one touched its legs and concluded an elephant is like a tree trunk...the Fifth one touched its ear and concluded the elphant is like a fan..and i forget what the sixth one touched..BUT they were ALL "right" and All were "Wrong" at the Same time.
Here is another version...
Same Conclusion...
There were six men of Hindustan,
to learning much inclined,
Who went to see an elephant,
though all of them were blind,
That each by observation
might satisfy his mind.
The first approached the elephant,
and happening to fall
Against his broad and sturdy side,
at once began to bawl,
"This mystery of an elephant
is very like a wall."
The second, feeling of the tusk,
cried, "Ho, what have we here,
So very round and smooth and sharp?
To me 'tis mighty clear,
This wonder of an elephant
is very like a spear."
The third approached the elephant,
and happening to take
The squirming trunk within his hands,
thus boldly up and spake,
"I see," quoth he,
"the elephant is very like a snake."
The fourth reached out an eager hand,
and felt above the knee,
"What this most wondrous beast
is like is very plain" said he,
"'Tis clear enough the elephant
is very like a tree."
The fifth who chanced to touch the ear
said, "E'en the blindest man
Can tell what this resembles most;
deny the fact who can;
This marvel of an elephant
is very like a fan."
The sixth no sooner had begun
about the beast to grope,
Than seizing on the swinging tail
that fell within his scope;
"I see," said he, "the elephant
is very like a rope." So six blind men of Hindustan
disputed loud and long,
Each in his own opinion
exceeding stiff and strong;
Though each was partly in the right,
they all were in the wrong!
GOD...GURU NANAK ( Guru nanak to Guru Granth )...we are all "free" to touch and see whatever we feel is right !!!
Gyani jarnail Singh
Balbir Ji,
Gurfateh.
Perhaps if we look at the tuks this way....
Before Guru nanak ji came along....people beleived in Esar, brahm and parbatee etc etc etc 33 KROR names to go...
BUT then GURU NANAK JI gives us HIS Take/Conclusion....Jeh HAUN janna akhan nahin kehnna kathan na jaiyee...HE is Way TOO BIG for "me" (Guru nanak) to really say !!
This is one way Guru nanak ji gives us HIS TAKE on many "established beleifs"....
Lets take the SODAR Shabad as an example...
In the First 14 lines.....SODAR TERA KEHA....onwards Guru Ji "asks" 14 QUESTIONS ( in reality these questions tell us what the religious beleifs of the period were....these established beleifs described HOW GOD had a Darbar..how He Sat on His throne..etc etc etc...Such "established" descriptions as Heavens, Swarag, Dharam Raaj's Kacheri, Inder Devtas Darbar, Seventh Heaven, Behshast etc etc were "established" because ordinary MEN had "seen" King's Darbaars and Majestic drbaars of Emperors etc... so it was very easy for them to IMAGINE a SIMILAR set up for GOD..and thats exactly what the "Religious Thekedars" DISHED OUT - You HEAR what you want to HEAR !!! This is also why "martyrs" are PROMISED Hooran and beautiful maidens in Heaven..flowing Rivers of WINE.HONEY..MILK....GOLD..Diamond Studded PALACES !!! Every Mans DREAM !!! What a Fantastic IMAGINARY HEAVEN....who wouldnt want to go there even if means tying a bomb to your body and blowing it up in a crowded Market ??..or donating everything to the Brahman at Karwatt and getting your head cut off !!!
BUT GURU NANAK IS TRUTH PERSONIFIED....TRUTH TRUTH and ONLY TRUTH..no imaginary rivers of honey or milk and no damsels...just the plain TRUTH... so Here is Guru nanaks SODAR !!!
FROM line 15 ONWARDS it is GURU NANAK JI's ANSWER to this Eternal question about God's abode !!!!
Guru nanak Ji declares HIS ABODE is the ENTIRE BRAHMAND !!!! HE is EVERYWHERE..in each ATOM of His CREATION !!!
EXACTLY the SAME TECHNIQUE used in the AARTEE Shabds....
First Guru nanak ji "describes" HOW the Hindu aartee is done...
and THEN..
GURU NANAKS VERSION of HIS AARTEE !!!
Regards..
Gyani jarnail Singh
Gurfateh Ji.
Gurbani is also to be..LIVED !!! not merely sung/read/vicharred........Gurmatt is not mere repettion..parrotting...repetitions....its got to be Bitten off, CHEWED..tasted and Swallowed JE ko KHAVEH Je ko BHUNCHEH..Tis ka hoi adharo.....simialr to medicine pills...serve no purpose just beign kept in a bottle and looked at, admired.....you got to eat them to be cured !!
Regards
Gyani jarnail Singh
Guru Piayario Jio,
Gurfateh.
Reminds me of the poem.."The Six blind men of Hindoostan"...i read when i was in Primary school.
It goes like this....Six blind men went to "see" an elephant.... the first one touched its tail..and concluded the "Elephant" is like a rope/snake..
The second one touched its side...and concluded an "Elephant" is like a wall....the third one touched its tusks and concluded an "elephant" is like a sword..the fourth one touched its legs and concluded an elephant is like a tree trunk...the Fifth one touched its ear and concluded the elphant is like a fan..and i forget what the sixth one touched..BUT they were ALL "right" and All were "Wrong" at the Same time.
Here is another version...
Same Conclusion...
There were six men of Hindustan,
to learning much inclined,
Who went to see an elephant,
though all of them were blind,
That each by observation
might satisfy his mind.
The first approached the elephant,
and happening to fall
Against his broad and sturdy side,
at once began to bawl,
"This mystery of an elephant
is very like a wall."
The second, feeling of the tusk,
cried, "Ho, what have we here,
So very round and smooth and sharp?
To me 'tis mighty clear,
This wonder of an elephant
is very like a spear."
The third approached the elephant,
and happening to take
The squirming trunk within his hands,
thus boldly up and spake,
"I see," quoth he,
"the elephant is very like a snake."
The fourth reached out an eager hand,
and felt above the knee,
"What this most wondrous beast
is like is very plain" said he,
"'Tis clear enough the elephant
is very like a tree."
The fifth who chanced to touch the ear
said, "E'en the blindest man
Can tell what this resembles most;
deny the fact who can;
This marvel of an elephant
is very like a fan."
The sixth no sooner had begun
about the beast to grope,
Than seizing on the swinging tail
that fell within his scope;
"I see," said he, "the elephant
is very like a rope." So six blind men of Hindustan
disputed loud and long,
Each in his own opinion
exceeding stiff and strong;
Though each was partly in the right,
they all were in the wrong!
GOD...GURU NANAK ( Guru nanak to Guru Granth )...we are all "free" to touch and see whatever we feel is right !!!
Gyani jarnail Singh
Balbir Ji,
Gurfateh.
Perhaps if we look at the tuks this way....
Before Guru nanak ji came along....people beleived in Esar, brahm and parbatee etc etc etc 33 KROR names to go...
BUT then GURU NANAK JI gives us HIS Take/Conclusion....Jeh HAUN janna akhan nahin kehnna kathan na jaiyee...HE is Way TOO BIG for "me" (Guru nanak) to really say !!
This is one way Guru nanak ji gives us HIS TAKE on many "established beleifs"....
Lets take the SODAR Shabad as an example...
In the First 14 lines.....SODAR TERA KEHA....onwards Guru Ji "asks" 14 QUESTIONS ( in reality these questions tell us what the religious beleifs of the period were....these established beleifs described HOW GOD had a Darbar..how He Sat on His throne..etc etc etc...Such "established" descriptions as Heavens, Swarag, Dharam Raaj's Kacheri, Inder Devtas Darbar, Seventh Heaven, Behshast etc etc were "established" because ordinary MEN had "seen" King's Darbaars and Majestic drbaars of Emperors etc... so it was very easy for them to IMAGINE a SIMILAR set up for GOD..and thats exactly what the "Religious Thekedars" DISHED OUT - You HEAR what you want to HEAR !!! This is also why "martyrs" are PROMISED Hooran and beautiful maidens in Heaven..flowing Rivers of WINE.HONEY..MILK....GOLD..Diamond Studded PALACES !!! Every Mans DREAM !!! What a Fantastic IMAGINARY HEAVEN....who wouldnt want to go there even if means tying a bomb to your body and blowing it up in a crowded Market ??..or donating everything to the Brahman at Karwatt and getting your head cut off !!!
BUT GURU NANAK IS TRUTH PERSONIFIED....TRUTH TRUTH and ONLY TRUTH..no imaginary rivers of honey or milk and no damsels...just the plain TRUTH... so Here is Guru nanaks SODAR !!!
FROM line 15 ONWARDS it is GURU NANAK JI's ANSWER to this Eternal question about God's abode !!!!
Guru nanak Ji declares HIS ABODE is the ENTIRE BRAHMAND !!!! HE is EVERYWHERE..in each ATOM of His CREATION !!!
EXACTLY the SAME TECHNIQUE used in the AARTEE Shabds....
First Guru nanak ji "describes" HOW the Hindu aartee is done...
and THEN..
GURU NANAKS VERSION of HIS AARTEE !!!
Regards..
Gyani jarnail Singh
..
Gurfateh Ji.
Gurbani is also to be..LIVED !!! not merely sung/read/vicharred........Gurmatt is not mere repettion..parrotting...repetitions....its got to be Bitten off, CHEWED..tasted and Swallowed JE ko KHAVEH Je ko BHUNCHEH..Tis ka hoi adharo.....simialr to medicine pills...serve no purpose just beign kept in a bottle and looked at, admired.....you got to eat them to be cured !!
Regards
Gyani jarnail Singh
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Re: Nanak is the Guru; Nanak is the Lord Himself.
It is very kind of you to be with us. We are previliged to have your views and blessings. Sir, would you kindly help breaking this stalemate though you have answered .I believe Guru Nanak's God is in 'Mool Mantra' as well.
How will you advise?
I have to leave for my Office, I shall read your reply afterwards.
Regards ,Sir.
It is very kind of you to be with us. We are previliged to have your views and blessings. Sir, would you kindly help breaking this stalemate though you have answered .I believe Guru Nanak's God is in 'Mool Mantra' as well.
How will you advise?
I have to leave for my Office, I shall read your reply afterwards.
Regards ,Sir.
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