Promoting JHATKA

[Sinister]

I work in a hospital and I have seen (with my own eyes) conscious and semi-conscious patients pleading with doctors to pull the cord...while families cry at their side

what are your experiences with death? (other than theories derived by PETA fanatics)

 

[Archived_member7]

Waheguruji ka Khalsa Waheguruji ki Fateh

think about someone dying by heart failure and another by cancer ...what is better ??

I dont really feel any of our veers who oppose jhatka do know the difference ..

i really fail to understand are we some sort of Ahimsa Marag or what

i somewhere feel these guys can re write sikh history ..maybe replace kirpans with bouquets..!!!

this post was about promoting jhatka..and here we have people fighting over vegeterianism..this is not the issue..

do not take the issue haywire....Sikhi has space for all..this is not Jainism..we have vegeterian Nirmalas and Naamdharis ..and also meat eating Warrior Nihangs..

Accepted that initially Sikhi was not martial and had a huge influence of vegeterianism..how ever after the Sixth Guru Maharaj ..things were changing as according to times ..as we are all aware ..

The way things are being looked ..its just like ..one group of people doesnt want another one to even survive ..

Jhatka is not something to be ashamed..its something to be proud ....why kill an animal painfully...

Guru Raakha

 

[pk70]

I dont really feel any of our veers who oppose jhatka do know the difference ..
Raj Khalsa ji,
I was hoping you have been reading all stuff posted on the thread you created, sadly I have to say, you really haven’t. If you did, you wouldn’t have concluded your assumptions as facts. Let me prove it. Who are those “Veers “who oppose Jhatka? amarsanghera ji or me? If you think so, please reread ( his and mine) posts, our main issue is to avoid to show these pictures to small children. However, as other Veer jis have different opinion on this, continued to drag this issue to Vegetarianism to bravery, tradition of Sikhi bla. Bla.., never actually tried to deal with the issue.
i really fail to understand are we some sort of Ahimsa Marag or what
Who wrote a word against your Jhatka and declared it as “Hinsa” if not, what are you reading Veer ji? As some Veer jis are debating’ killing or humane killing” still there is not a single word against your idea.
i somewhere feel these guys can re write Sikh history ..maybe replace kirpans with bouquets..!!!
What is this? Any rational brain can understand from it that you just comment on what is not even discussed. Have you read a word from amarsanghera ji or my post about History? If you did, elaborate on it though I am sure issue remained far from it all the time.
The way things are being looked ..its just like ..one group of people doesnt want another one to even survive ..
Again, problem created from one’s own assumptions, has no solutions as it is assumed only. Please try to rise above these small blames being nourished in mind to defend your misunderstanding. There was only one point “to keep little children in mind while posting all kinds of stuff on this site," literally not a word against “ Jhatka or Halaal” or any profession to survive as you claim based on your assumption.
Jhatka is not something to be ashamed..its something to be proud ....why kill an animal painfully...
Again, kindly do not make issues out of no issue; your kind understanding will be appreciated. Good luck to your new venture !

[/FONT]

 

[Archived_Member_19]

sinister ji

i do not work in a hospital.

i have no experience with death

i am not a veggie and nor am i a PETA member

and yes

humane killing for me is still an oxy{censored}.

and what i stated earlier holds true.

you have not read all my posts SLOWLY and tried to understand them. otherwise you would not be arguing just for the sake of arguing.

maybe yes u are what u described ur self as

 

[Sinister]

you have not read all my posts SLOWLY and tried to understand them.

amar ji,

If I had the “choice” of killing myself or reading your posts again slowly

I would choose the former because it’s more humane. :{;o:
Irrationality cannot be rectified by simply revisiting its source.

cheers

 

[Gyani Jarnail Singh]

talking about slaughter...does this picture bother anybody?

look at all that distruction of life!
you cannot compare slaughtering animals to the act of raping someone

HEAR HEAR....

GURU NANAK JI SAHIB HAS WRITTEN A "VERY VERY GRAPHIC...SHABAD ABOUT THIS VERY PICTURE.....in fact looking at this shabad..there is NOT a SINGLE SHABAD as GRAPHIC as this about "MEAT/killing animals" ???

Any "points" about WHY Guru Ji would write a Long shabd describing graphically the "SLAUGHTER" of a PLANT LIFE FORM...but nothing as GRAPHIC as that about the "slaughter" of a cow/goat ??? IS there a message in this CHOICE of GURU JI ?? I beleive there SURE is....then (in 1469) as NOW.."animal slaughter" was supposedly horrendous..cruel..paap..******..etc etc etc....while "plant slaughter" was "NOTHING" to shout about. Guru Ji wrote that shabad to clarify that in GURMATT..ALL LIFE is PRECIOUS..from the lowly AMOEBA to the highest...from the lowly TOMATO plant to the highest animal. Elsewhere in Sukhmani Sahib.. soem people say.even "rocks and mountains" have been described as "life-forms" (past Janams/reincarnations etc etc )..so the way Stones are CRUSHED to make ROADS..build houses..etc is also CRUEL !!! ( for the record i DONT BUY this rock as life form translation..for me the shabad refers to evolution....becasue the earth/universe has passed thru this phases in its creation...)..but thats not the point i am making.... I am making that ALL LIFE is PRECIOUS..and ALL LIFE is RECYCLED to make FOOD...the FOOD CHAIN is his HUKM. No need to be holier than thou....the Daal eater eats just a smany "life forms" as the chicken burger eater....GOD is NOT going to judge the FOOD we ate.

Gyani Js

 

[Randip Singh]

i somewhere feel these guys can re write sikh history ..maybe replace kirpans with bouquets..!!!

Sorry to digress but this comment made me laugh out loud!

Nice one Raj! :rofl!!:

 

[vijaydeep Singh]

<<Amar, strangely the other day my seven year old nephew was at the gurdwara and was looking at the pictures on the wall. If you've grown up Sikh you may know that we have pictures of shaheeds going through the most horrendous torture openly visible where kids can clearly see them. Personally if anything is going to traumatise the kids I would have thought it would be the images of Singhs getting their heads scraped off, hacked limb by limb and broken on wheels. Not to mention babies getting speared etc. I know these things were never hidden from me when young. So I would say the goat beheading is relatively tame compared to that.>>

Dal veerji

thankfully for me, i never saw those picture where i grew up. :happy:

and i wouldn't get my children to see those pictures till they are ready for it.

Good luck to you.


<<Akal made Human better then Animal equating human with animal may not work well in us by the way adlof hitler was veggi.>>

what makes you think so?

Please read SGGS carefully. All are God's creation and stop mixing the Biblical thoughts of God made Man and the world for Man to enjoy


This never was a point of being a veggie or not...i don't understand why you equate my posts with vegetarianism...i am almost on the point of banging my head on the keyboard !!!:inca:

<<Coming back to the term dead ie murde in Farsi,Mrit in Sanskrit and killed Kushte shud in Farsi and Hat/hatahat in Sanskrit.So das thinks that origional texts of us are not in English.Then further term Pal Hat Khaye Na Turk Ka(Bhai Daya Singh Rahit Nammah).>>

you still don't get it do you?

Being DEAD is an end state, being killed by external force or internal decomposure are processes.

language does not change what i said. what is DEAD is DEAD. Please don't expect me to write sanskrit on english/punjabi forum.

and frankly from my side, i don't read rehitnamas

<<Das does not want brave Sikhs like Bhai Fauja Singh Ji Babber or Sant Jarnail Singh Ji of Bhindran,at present we need mercyless and ruthless and cunning Sikhs.Present days wars are not won by bravery but by mind.>>>

merciless, ruthless and cunning...well that sounds like Adolf Hitler to me.

We don't need wars or any of the "brave" men you mentioned.

We just need to give "love" a chance.

Bhai what about Bhaye Prapat Manukh Janam Dehuriya....

ਪੰਨਾ 486, ਸਤਰ 8
ਮਾਨੁਖਾ ਅਵਤਾਰ ਦੁਲਭ ਤਿਹੀ ਸੰਗਤਿ ਪੋਚ ॥੨॥
मानुखा अवतार दुलभ तिही संगति पोच ॥२॥
Mānukẖā avṯār ḏulabẖ ṯihī sangaṯ pocẖ. ||2||
It is so difficult to obtain this human incarnation, and yet, they keep company with the low. ||2||
ਭਗਤ ਰਵਿਦਾਸ ਜੀ - [SIZE=-1]view Shabad/Paurhi/Salok[/SIZE]


ਪੰਨਾ 1427, ਸਤਰ 18
ਕਹੁ ਨਾਨਕ ਸੁਨਿ ਰੇ ਮਨਾ ਦੁਰਲਭ ਮਾਨੁਖ ਦੇਹ ॥੨੭॥
कहु नानक सुनि रे मना दुरलभ मानुख देह ॥२७॥
Kaho Nānak sun rė manā ḏurlabẖ mānukẖ ḏėh. ||27||
Says Nanak, listen, mind: this human body is difficult to obtain. ||27||
ਮਃ 9 - [SIZE=-1]view Shabad/Paurhi/Salok[/SIZE]


ਪੰਨਾ 1159, ਸਤਰ 7
ਇਸ ਦੇਹੀ ਕਉ ਸਿਮਰਹਿ ਦੇਵ ॥
इस देही कउ सिमरहि देव ॥
Is ḏėhī ka&shy;o simrahi ḏėv.
Even the gods long for this human body.
ਭਗਤ ਕਬੀਰ ਜੀ - [SIZE=-1]view Shabad/Paurhi/Salok[/SIZE]


So humans being better the animals could be understood from here dear bother.


Coming to dead issue.Das with folded hand just try to beg you to understand that in Semitic faiths and in Nihungs dead animal are not allowed to be consumed and killed are.

Das here means dead as died of natiral death and same is termed as murdar,while killed animal (for eating)is called Halal or Kosher or Jhataka for us.For das Sikhism is 73rd code/shara of Islam(which was started by Hazrat Adaam Ahle Sallah).

Das agrees that love is supereme but there are a good lot of guys who ,on our showing love to them inspite of thier evil doing deem it as our weakness and further commit evil.

We at first talk of love and never start haterd but we do retaliate when no other mean is left.

So we are non Gandhian.Gandhi was no where less then Hitler Ji.

We give love a first chance but subse****ly we take other ways also and such ways in
Panth we need.Akal Bless.

 

[vijaydeep Singh]

Gurfateh

Javakan De Dill Chirhi Warge Na Banaye.( quote Vijaydeep Singh ji)


Vijaydeep Singh ji,
Though I enjoyed posts by you in the past, I am totally puzzled what are you trying to say here?
Are you saying “to become brave, or to fight a battle, one needs to learn do Jhatka?”
Should we convey this exceptional strategy to Military personnel to warn them what they are missing?
Or you are saying “ those who are trying to say that children must be kept in mind while posting all stuff on this site, are having “ chiri varge dil,” and” who enjoy those pictures of animal slaughtering get automatically “ magical push” to turn into sher dil?” Why did I witness these jatka doers displaying a jackal’s show while in conflict? A lot of stuff given and presented in Gurdawaras has no alignment with Gurbani teachings; taking it a base to call a legitimate inspiration for either to children or adults is questionable in context of Gurmatt. In Zafarnama Sahib defines valid reason of becoming armed, so don’t try to give new meanings to being “ Khalsa” First of all, issue was not “ jhatka, or dead or how to inspire kids to become warriors or to eate meat or not; actually issue was very simple” to keep children in mind while posting all kind of stuff on this site”.

When people speak in the context of love being a higher emotional state than the other emotions, I die a little inside. [/FONT]
You cannot learn to love without learning to hate! (vice-versa)( quote sinister ji)[/FONT]
Not exactly, if one only learns to love, he/she doesn’t even need to learn to hate. A friend of mine who is a Christian, once I confronted him to ignore those people totally who offended him openly instead of smiling again with them as they wish so. His reply hit me hard” Singh, I cannot hate, I just don’t know how to hate, Mom taught me otherwise” You may call him an alien but I understood the factor working in his behavior, he never learnt” hating” and unlike you say” he doesn’t need it to love” Every thing is not round.[/FONT]

Well it appears that there seems to be good influence of book about Jhatak by Bhai Sahib Bhai Randheer Singh Ji and Tyu Kyo Murgi Mare by Mr J S Talwara.

Well Mr Kala Afghana wrote Maas Maas Kar Murakh Jagre.Kanwar Ajeet Singh wrote Sabh Dusht Jhakh Mara against him(das will make this online).But there was some and great mistake by all on meat issue.

When did das told about making curagius.Das wants them more shroode in war.Wars in present are not won by bravery but by ruthlessness ,mercilessness etc.

Das is aware that niether Bhai Sahib Bhai Randheer Singh nor Mr Talwara served the forces.

When we plant the bomb and run away as Babber Khalsa guys do,we do not hAVE TO SEE THE BLOOD SPILLING OVER.But in hand to hand final assault things are differnt.

Then during surivial techniques,we are told to use only animals in jungle.Say if some one throws poision on trees in jungle,tree will not die.But for animals in jungle,only few may digest the poision,So while dealing with chemical warefare etc. also eating animals in jungle is OK.

Will it be possible for always veggi by religeon to eat rat only when needed ie without practise to digest it.Will it not be a hell in psychological front,when in already adverse condition,food is something unique and hated for long.Akal bless.

 

[Astroboy]

To counter the "evil design" of the RSS, a Sikh youth leader reportedly went so far as to propose serving beef in the Gurdwara langar. Such an anti-Hindu move is not anti-Sikh, since Sikhism evidently does not proscribe beef. Furthermore, agitating organisations in Punjab are pressing the local civic bodies for granting separate cremation grounds for Sikhs.

Sikhs Aren't Hindus![FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]
[/FONT]Sikhs maintain that Sikhism is not an offshoot of Hinduism and was not created as the sword arm of Hindus against Muslim invaders, but as a distinct community to fight 'oppression' in whatever form it existed. So, the Sikhs have an identity of their own vis-à-vis the religious and cultural content and form of Hinduism.

Source : hindu.about.com Are Sikhs Hindus?

 

[pk70]

Well it appears that there seems to be good influence of book about Jhatak by Bhai Sahib Bhai Randheer Singh Ji and Tyu Kyo Murgi Mare by Mr J S Talwara.
Vijaydeep Singh ji,
You have also joined “ assume and comment” group”, I have never read a book by Bhai Randhir Singh, or of Js Talwara; when I joined this site, I was wondering why Bhai Randhir singh was given so high status by some? So your assumption doesn’t go beyond its characteristics.
Well Mr Kala Afghana wrote Maas Maas Kar Murakh Jagre.Kanwar Ajeet Singh wrote Sabh Dusht Jhakh Mara against him(das will make this online).But there was some and great mistake by all on meat issue.
Who cares about Kala afgana, a guy who has literally poor impression on me, what can he teach or influence me or others who keep the mind open for all sides, problem is” not understanding the comments or request but quickly jump to respond.” My simple request was to consider children while posting all kinds of stuff on this site” was my request a threat to non vegetarians? Reread my Request, there is one word” children” the request is bound to that word.
When did das told about making curagius.Das wants them more shroode in war.Wars in present are not won by bravery but by ruthlessness ,mercilessness etc.
Reread your own post, in your post and find this clause“chiri varge dil” it was addressed to whom and why? Can you remember that? Now you have come up with new strategy of winning a war in context of “what should be shown or not shown to children” Amazing spirit of Khalsa! Wismaad !
When we plant the bomb and run away as Babber Khalsa guys do,we do not hAVE TO SEE THE BLOOD SPILLING OVER.But in hand to hand final assault things are differnt.
Please come out of this” WE” amarsanghera ji and I only asked to consider children in context of such posts as posted by rajkhalsa ji. How it can be dragged to plot bombing so irrationally?
Will it be possible for always veggi by religeon to eat rat only when needed ie without practise to digest it.Will it not be a hell in psychological front,when in already adverse condition,food is something unique and hated for long.Akal bless.
Dreams have no bearings, realistically or hypothetically as my comments have nothing to do with your label” ‘Veggi”
It is my humble request, please read carefully before commenting or labeling others by depending on your sheer assumptions or uncontrollable favoritism for non vegetarians even when there is no such issue at all.

 

[spnadmin]

Just a caution please dear forum members. Read carefully what the other person is saying before you respond. Don't take each statement literally. sometimes a person is using a figure of speech. I am not asking that peace and love break out on SPN, but only that comments to controversy are based on what people actually say. And if you use a figure of speech that might be badly misunderstood, try to explain your meaning in parentheses or something like that. Thanks


You know, forum talk just like email, is scanned by national security satellites for frequent use of key words. Hmm.

 

[Sinister]

Please come out of this” WE” amarsanghera ji and I only asked to consider children in context of such posts as posted by rajkhalsa ji.

:rofl!!:

kinda resembles body parts doesn’t it? BAN IT! TAKE IT OFF! HENNY PENNY THE SKY IS FALLING!

carnage! Would somebody please think of the children? Oh please, oh please?

Snot faced children don’t care…feed them…clean the fecal matter from their bottoms and send them to school…they’ll turn out just fine (well the majority of them).

Pk70 I may be hyper-rational at times but at least I’m not hyper-emotional.

this little guy seems pretty happy? Look at the background!

I was in grade 5 when we first dissected frogs (that would make me around 9-10 years old)

Should we change school curriculum because some hyper-sensitive softies would be “traumatized”?

What exactly are your irrational concerns? and exactly what would you like to censor?

:down:

 

[pk70]

kinda resembles body parts doesn’t it? BAN IT! TAKE IT OFF! HENNY PENNY THE SKY IS FALLING!
Well sinister ji, you have made me laugh, at least now you are on the issue.
Does it( fruit in a plate) resemble with the act” shown in the picture” posted by raj khalsa ji? If you see that act in that plate, no further question because it will be beyond my comprehension, may be I am not good at visualizing “ a plate of cut fruit” being like “beheading of an animal”.
Pk70 I may be hyper-rational at times but at least I’m not hyper-emotional
I am glad you are not hyper emotional, it is healthy. If you think I am, I must improve my emotional convictions
this little guy seems pretty happy? Look at the background!

The children you are showing are not there at their own, some part of the world is still learning how to understand children more, so this argument doesn’t help much.
I was in grade 5 when we first dissected frogs (that would make me around 9-10 years old) Should we change school curriculum because some hyper-sensitive softies would be “traumatized”?
Should children under 8 or 7 also witness frog dissecting to understand anatomy? Why it is not done in 3d, 4th grade?
What exactly are your irrational concerns? and exactly what would you like to censor?

My rational concerns are when people start making issues out of nothing. To make it a simpler, here in your post, you stayed on the issue, regardless of my opinion, rationality has bearings to defend what you say but to make warriors out of act of beheading of animals or frog dissecting is irrational issue. Regarding censorship, my stand is very clear, where ever some issues are discussed if they mount to concerns of little children, MOD should rate it or censor it as they think appropriate… Smile !

 

[Sinister]

Pk70

How many 3-8 years old Sikhs are going to go online (alone...without supervision) and click on sikh philosophy and look up a discussion on the promotion of Jhatka meat?

A 7 or 8 year old probably can't even spell sikhphilosophy in the url bar

Do you understand something called demographics?

And if a child wanted to see carnage he would see it on TV, youtube or google images first.

You do not understand child psychology…stop pretending like you do.

If was 6 and I saw that, I would say something like… “COOL!” or "EWWW" and then, move on with my life …A task, it seems, that adults are not capable of doing. (adults like to judge and debate on whether something is "humane" or not)

In grade 3 we were learning about mummification and I saw a live mummy at a museum exhibition. looked kinda like this

we should also ban skeletons in classrooms according to this "rationality"

god forbid we create any curiosity amongst the young about simple biology
might offend and traumatize the children

what do you tell your children when they bleed?..."dont worry sport, its just a little ketchup"

 

[pk70]

A 7 or 8 year old probably can't even spell sikhphilosophy in the url bar[/FONT]
Sinister ji, stop generalizing things just because you think every child goes on computer only at its own. There are children of the same age you are quoting above, they sit with parents and try to understand about Sikhism; one example is our respected Form leader Gurvinder_ janu, her kids go there with her as she stated once, we don’t know of their age, there could be others who do like this as well. imagine three years or four years is clinging to a mother who is on this site then suddenly comes across to this picture showing an act of violence, what would you say, if there is warning, mother or father wont go there as long as that child is there.[/FONT]

Do you understand something called demographics?[/FONT]
I know but if it has new meanings, teach me.[/FONT]
And if a child wanted to see carnage he would see it on TV, youtube or google images first.[/FONT]
Well now you are talking about “Ifs” in context of children’s desire or linking, we were discussing to see if all images are good for all children including who do not know how to type.[/FONT]

You do not understand child psychology…stop pretending like you do.[/FONT]
Well, I understand it as I read it as a subject, the reason you don’t see frog dissecting on curriculums in grade third and fourth is recommended on the basis of child psychology. The children who are less exposed to violence at very early age will refrain from violent behavior, who are, could develop that depending upon circumstances they put through. Mind is a slate, imprinting images on it, transforms it . Fossils and act of violence cannot be called the same, I feel you understand that very well, why you are mixing them, I wonder! Reality has its facets[/FONT]. Depends how you want to look at it Sinister ji.[/FONT]

 

[Sinister]

Pk70 ji,

Sinister ji, stop generalizing things just because you think every child goes on computer only at its own. There are children of the same age you are quoting above, they sit with parents and try to understand about

Sikhism; one example is our respected Form leader Gurvinder_ janu, her kids go there with her as she stated once, we don’t know of their age, there could be others who do like this as well. imagine three years or four years is clinging to a mother who is on this site then suddenly comes across to this picture showing an act of violence, what would you say, if there is warning, mother or father wont go there as long as that child is there.

this was never about WARNINGS!!!!

it was about your request for CENSORSHIP!!!!

they are two different WORDS!


this was your first post.

request

Can Any One Can Delete This Picture< There Are Children Who May Be Going On This Site, for What Purpose It Has Been Posted

 

[Archived_Member_19]

sinisterji

pk70 or anyone do not have to "try"

 

[Sinister]

this was mr. sanghera's request

aadji

this picture is shocking !!!



Rajkhalsa ji

instead of waiting for mods to remove it, i urge ur sensibilities to remove it.

Now Psychologically:
either this picture bothered you...and you conviniently used the classic "oh would someone please think of the children" routine

or you were lobbying for nothing at all and just craving 'righteous attention'.

 

[Sinister]

sinisterji

pk70 or anyone do not have to "try"

lets have a little fun with this confessional

trying is hard