Sects Sab Sikhan Ko Hukam Hai Guru Manyo Granth And The Radha Soami

[Gyani Jarnail Singh]

re: "Sab Sikhan Ko Hukam Hai Guru Manyo Granth" and the Roadhaswami

Tejwant Ji..

Here is a almost "complete" list of human Gurus..take your pick..
Radha soamis..and sants and others...proof thats a lucrative business
besides the huge deras in Punjab...
radhasoami
Go to last link..http://www.globalserve.net/~sarlo/RatingsO.htm

 

[dalbirk]

re: "Sab Sikhan Ko Hukam Hai Guru Manyo Granth" and the Roadhaswami

.... Contd... that point of time is supereme & worthy of imposing faith in . So what is the use of making a memorial for one who lived long ago ? Why r they making a monument for last hundred years in the memory of Shiv Dayal ? What goos would be served by publishing the life sketches & their thoughts /philosophy if they r not important in the life of their followers ?
If we ask who was the guru of Soami Shiv Dayal , they say - " Nad(Divine musical sound) was his guru .He did not take sermons from anybody else ."
So the guru of Radha Soamis who lived in the past has no significance for them . If Nad can be the gurur of Shiv Dayal then why can't other people have 'Shabad' as their guru ?
It is written in Sar Bachan -
"Granth can't be Guru . It is the root . It does not talk nor can it convey sermon by itself ."
In contraray to the other guru of Radha Soami ,Rai Bahadur Salig Ram writes -
" Shabad is the true form of the Lord Sat(i)nam , ParbrahmAtma , parmatma all living beings r form of Shabad only . Without concentration on Shabad , nothing else can help reach Him . Those who seek their emancipation should adopt Shabad as Guru & attach their minds in it & in its 'Dhun' ( Musical note ).
These r self contradictory statements of Radha Soamis . On one hand they claim 'Naad' as Guru of Shiv Dayal & on the other hand they state that Granth can't be a Guru which is embodiment of Shabad & spiritual knowledge . Thirdly , they proclaim supermacy of the present guru . Then they r also constructing memorials of the gurus of the past who have no significance today . In fact they r quite confused themselves as to who the real Guru is .
The living guru concept of Radha Soamis have resulted in establishment of numerous seats & gurudom . There r a number of litigation cases in progress on the subject of sharing of assets . Many court cases have already been decided between gurus of Dayal Bagh , Soami Bagh & Allahabad . The discords amongst them had even gone up to Privy Council of London .

Finally , we would like to make onething clear . radha Soami believes in many forms of God . Shri Shiv Dayal is known as 'Sant Satguru ', 'Kulmalik' . His successors r known by various epithets like 'Sadh guru','Gurmukh guru','Vaqt guru. ' Those who r gone by r called 'Be-vaqt guru .'

The Gurudom at Beas was commenced by Baba Jaimal Singh . After his retirement from the Army in 1891 , he came & settled on the bank of the river Beas near villages of Varaich & Balsaran . Some Sikhs of Ballsaran took him as a Sikh Sadhu ( Mendicant ) & gave him plot of land from the common pool of the village land for making a 'Dharamsala' . The area of the plot was over two acres . It was registered in the name of Sri Guru Granth Sahib vide registration number 254 dated 14th June, 1897 .

In the final recordings of the official documents , it is written that "Bhai jaimal Singh has no right to own or lease out or give out this plot of land . It will ever remain for 'Dharamsala' .

Those headman who had donated & registered this piece of land on the name of Sri Guru Granth sahib r -Laloo Nambardar , Mehtab Singh , Bhan Singh , Boorh Singh , Sher Singh & Gurdit Singh .......

Contd....

 

[Jatt_Khehra]

Re: Sab sikhu ko hukam hay Guru manu Grath

Gurfateh

Well Guru of Sikh is one who is neither born nor can die. It is Gurbar Akal or eternal Guru.

And Gurubani is the verbal manifestation of that.

And in fact by Gurubani we reach the status of oneness with Akal by becoming Khalsa and we attain the status of Guru.From us did Tenth Nanak took baptism.He said for us that from their mercy I am Gloryfied else there are millions of poors like me.

That Tenth Nanak gave his sons,Father,Mother ,own life and ultimatly own Guruship to us but still said that anyone who call him God will go to hel and behold him as slave of eternal Guru(Akal).

So only fools will give away his own throne of Guruship to sthe hammer who preach the personal worship and that shammer guru is nothing more than a tout who wants to become a meddle men betwen us and God and wants to earn profit in the form of fund which we may offer.

So ask your unfortunate friend about his Radhswami guru that can his guru give his own Gaddi or throne to him(your freind) like our Father Guru Gobind Singh did.But Radhswamis who are always in litigation for funds hardly will listen or understand what Das has said or what your freind may ask them.

RS

 

[Jatt_Khehra]

re: "Sab Sikhan Ko Hukam Hai Guru Manyo Granth" and the Roadhaswami

dear friend,
in my whole Life i never saw any radha swami person talking ill-will about any other religion because our guru ji never permit us.but saw so many times talking my some kattar Sikh brothers bad comments about santmat(Radha Swami mat).I belong to a jutt sikh family and as long as i know about Shri Guru Granth Sahib it never permit so.i dont understand if we respect our Guru's teachings then why dont they respect their.

regards
Radha Swami
Paramjit Singh Khehra

 

[Jatt_Khehra]

re: "Sab Sikhan Ko Hukam Hai Guru Manyo Granth" and the Roadhaswami

if finding faults and disrespecting other religions make you Gyani
I wish i never want to
Guru granth Sahib teaches us to respect others
not pin pointing others
Gyani Ji u r disrespecting Guru Granth Sahib ji 's teachings
with your handicap knowledge

Paramjit Singh

 

[Jatt_Khehra]

re: "Sab Sikhan Ko Hukam Hai Guru Manyo Granth" and the Roadhaswami

There r people who went to gurudwara listen the Gurbani
Then Come Home and repeat the Gurbani
then again repeat the Gurbani
But never try to understand what it says

just try to understand with this Example
A boy goes to school
in the class his teacher reads from a book
and say " sare bache es practical ko apne ghar se karke aana"
boy comes home
finish his Lunch
Go to his Study table
and repeats the words " sare bache es practical ko apne ghar se karke aana"
before night he repeats again "sare bache es prac............"
take his dinner
then repeats again "sare bache es practical ko ghar.........."
he feels comfortable by repeating it again and again.

Now just review
Is the boy is dis honest?
No!
Did he dont want to do the homework ?
No! He wants.
Then where is the problem.
The problem is the person who tought him lession never did this practical before
All the people and students around him are like him
all of them listened and read the same lesson so many times
but any of them never did the practical.
some of them can read it from book but dont translate
because they dont know how to !
NOw
all he wants a practical teacher who himself did this practical already.and capable of
making him understand how to do it.
Very Simple.
but at the end of the day boy have to do the practical himself
because
teacher can make him understand
but cant do it for him

we all need a living guru
as much as we need a living doctor for our treatment
a living teacher for our children
a living advocate to handle our case
YEs we NEED him
but we can't find him (we r not capable of)
ONLY ONLY ONLY he can find us .(Wade Bhagan Nal he Pure satGuru de nal Milap Hunda hai) jis nu oh apne naal nahi milana chounda us de man wich oh DehDhari Guru lai Nafrat bhar dinda hai"
Shri Guru Granth Sahib Ji was Written by DehDhari Guru.
There were FIVE DehDhari Gurus after the creation of Shri Guru Granth Sahib Ji.

Paramjit Singh Khehra

 

[Randip Singh]

re: "Sab Sikhan Ko Hukam Hai Guru Manyo Granth" and the Roadhaswami

dear friend,
in my whole Life i never saw any radha swami person talking ill-will about any other religion because our guru ji never permit us.but saw so many times talking my some kattar Sikh brothers bad comments about santmat(Radha Swami mat).I belong to a jutt sikh family and as long as i know about Shri Guru Granth Sahib it never permit so.i dont understand if we respect our Guru's teachings then why dont they respect their.

regards
Radha Swami
Paramjit Singh Khehra

I have met many Radhaswami ridiculing mainstream Sikh practice.

 

[spnadmin]

re: "Sab Sikhan Ko Hukam Hai Guru Manyo Granth" and the Roadhaswami

we all need a living guru 
as much as we need a living doctor for our treatment
a living teacher for our children
a living advocate to handle our case
YEs we NEED him
but we can't find him (we r not capable of)
ONLY ONLY ONLY he can find us .(Wade Bhagan Nal he Pure satGuru de nal Milap Hunda hai) jis nu oh apne naal nahi milana chounda us de man wich oh DehDhari Guru lai Nafrat bhar dinda hai"

Jatt_Kerha ji

The above goes contrary to some of the earlier things you have said. And while Sikh Rehat Maryada cautions us against disrespect of other religions, we have only Sri Guru Granth Sahib and no other guru.

Unless I misunderstand you, to follow a living guru is to turn aside the words of Guru Gobind Singh, Guru Maneyo Granth!

Let's give some thought to what Guru Gobind Singh meant when he said, the khalsa is my guru. Was he contradicting himself?

 

[spnadmin]

re: "Sab Sikhan Ko Hukam Hai Guru Manyo Granth" and the Roadhaswami

we all need a living guru
as much as we need a living doctor for our treatment
a living teacher for our children
a living advocate to handle our case
YEs we NEED him
but we can't find him (we r not capable of)
ONLY ONLY ONLY he can find us .(Wade Bhagan Nal he Pure satGuru de nal Milap Hunda hai) jis nu oh apne naal nahi milana chounda us de man wich oh DehDhari Guru lai Nafrat bhar dinda hai"

Jatt_Kerha ji

The above goes contrary to some of the earlier things you have said. And while Sikh Rehat Maryada cautions us against disrespect of other religions, we have only Sri Guru Granth Sahib and no other guru.

Unless I misunderstand you, to follow a living guru is to turn aside the words of Guru Gobind Singh, Guru Maneyo Granth!

Let's give some thought to what Guru Gobind Singh meant when he said, the khalsa is my guru. Was he contradicting himself? I do not think that he was. But rather he was making a very important declaration about the vision he had of how Sikhi should evolve.

What are the thoughts of forum members on this last question? Thanks.

 

[Tejwant Singh]

Re: Sab sikhu ko hukam hay Guru manu Grath

Jatt_Khehra ji,

Guru Fateh.

I am glad you still believe in and practice Apartheid which is called caste system in Indian jargon.

You say:

Well Guru of Sikh is one who is neither born nor can die. It is Gurbar Akal or eternal Guru.

And Gurubani is the verbal manifestation of that.

So far so good. Guru Nanak explains that very well in Mool Mantar about Ik Ong Kaar.

And in fact by Gurubani we reach the status of oneness with Akal by becoming Khalsa and we attain the status of Guru.

Where did you get that from that " we attain the status of Guru"?

You are distorting the facts. becoming Khalsa has nothing to do with attaining the status of Guru.

Your above claim is completely false and incorrect. Who told you this?

From us did Tenth Nanak took baptism.He said for us that from their mercy I am Gloryfied else there are millions of poors like me.

Yes, when our Dasam Guru took Khandei di pahul from the Panj Pyaras, he lowered himself to our level and raised us to his. Which means we all became Khalsa- pure hearted.

Secondly, when you say From us, it sounds a bit puzzling, because you declared yourself a Radasoami which is a cultist, hence you are not even a Sikh, so this is one more distortion on your part.

I do not care what faith you follow but distorting Sikhi, its traditions and Gurmat ideals is a big NO NO. It shows your own insecurity about your own derawala faith. It shows that you need crutches of a man babbling and calling himself the Guru or by any other title, despite the fact that you are capable of walking on your own.

And FYI, I know lots of Radasoamis who talk ill about Sikhi. You are mistaken again in your claim.

Good luck in your journey.

Regards

Tejwant Singh

 

[Seeker9]

Re: Sab sikhu ko hukam hay Guru manu Grath

I have RS relations and had interaction with RS followers all my life. I have come across some RS who are genuine in their beliefs and respectful of Sikhi. But sadly, in my experience, they are very much in a minority and most RS I have encountered consider themselves superior and the only ones who have had their visa stamped to go to the "real" Sachkhand

I am talking from my own personal experience here so please do not attempt to refute anything I have said in this post

 

[dalbirk]

re: "Sab Sikhan Ko Hukam Hai Guru Manyo Granth" and the Roadhaswami

The sect I have been impressed the most is the Radha Soami ( Beas ) sect . Their beliefs are either copied from Sikhism or plainly foolishly outrageous . But only due to better or CORPORATE MANAGEMENT OF THEIR BUSINESS they are not only doing good but flourishing . The thing they have done remarkable good is the Satsang they do everywhere is the REGIONAL LOCAL languages only . In Ahmedabad , the language is strictly Gujarati , similarly in Tamil Nadu the language is strictly Tamil only likewise is Bengali in Bengal , Marathi in Maharashtra . This is the biggest advantage of theirs IMHO over Sikhism where we are still stuck in the rut of Punjabi language . Sikhi is not only for Punjabis who are leaving it like there is no tommorrow . Sikhs should take example of Radha Soamis & try STRICTLY to use local languages only in Katha , Hukamnammas , written or oral . This is the msot basic requirement , there is no escaping from it . The more we postpone , the more damage we shall be doing to the cause of Panth . Today there is most urgent need of propagating the message of Sri Guru Granth Sahib to each & every human inhabitating this planet , there is no way we can teach them Punjabi especially when Punjabis are adopting Hindi like Hindi is an elitist language & our so called leaders are enjoying the fruits of power unaware of the happenings in their own backyard .

 

[Jatt_Khehra]

re: "Sab Sikhan Ko Hukam Hai Guru Manyo Granth" and the Roadhaswami

Dilberk ji
languages used by Radha Swami satangs are not for attracting people towards Radha Swami Mat. these are for making the different people understand ikonkaar. Just like God did from the begning of earth Time. Sants who came in different religions not to make dharms or communities but to tell us about the ONE. It is WE who made Dharams not God . 10 Guru ji da message jo sari dunia waste se asi dyere wich band kar dita . All sants said God is One but our activites (not we) say Sikhs Guru is Guru granth Sahib-Muslims guru is mohammad - Cristans guru is Crist.in your above comment it seems you are interested in gathering people. not directing them towards God but directing them towards Sikhism.

regards
Paramjit Singh

 

[Jatt_Khehra]

Re: Sab sikhu ko hukam hay Guru manu Grath

seeker9

How can u differentiate two things if you know only one of them have you ever been to byas satsang.if not then how can you tell others who is right and who wrong.and if u want to talk about miniority/majotity as u mentioned in above comment just go byas in satsang days your each question will be answered in your own terms .each sunday The Sangat Gathered is between 4-7 laks (roughly estimate).i m not camparing . i only mentioned because you initiate the topic.
pure satguru de darshan te satsang vich jana har ek de kismat wich nahi hunda.je thudi kismat vich hovega tan hi sach jaan pavoge.otherwise vehma bharma vich , or nafrat vich aa ke kadi byas jaan baare sochoge v nahi.je kadi jaoge he nahi tan kattarta vich aa ke sach ton door he rahoge.Kush log ta outhe jaan ton he darde han ke kite jadu toona hi na kar den .Ek 2 vaar jaoge ta main eh nahi kehnda ke tusi es paase tur pavoge PAR aini garranti hai ki kadi Galat v nahi bologe

regards
Paramjit Singhrangesingh:

 

[Seeker9]

Re: Sab sikhu ko hukam hay Guru manu Grath

seeker9

How can u differentiate two things if you know only one of them have you ever been to byas satsang.if not then how can you tell others who is right and who wrong
Yes, I have been to Beas Satsang by former master Charan Singh Ji and I have attended 5 Satsangs in UK by the present RSSB Master and numerous other local Satsangs. What Satsangs have you attended? How many times have you been to the Gurudwara other than for a function like a wedding or a funeral?

.and if u want to talk about miniority/majotity as u mentioned in above comment just go byas in satsang days your each question will be answered in your own terms .each sunday The Sangat Gathered is between 4-7 laks (roughly estimate).i m not camparing . i only mentioned because you initiate the topic.

I did not introduce numbers. You have. Are we playing a numbers game? Are there more followers of Islam than there are of RSSB? Does that make Islam better?


pure satguru de darshan te satsang vich jana har ek de kismat wich nahi hunda.je thudi kismat vich hovega tan hi sach jaan pavoge.otherwise vehma bharma vich , or nafrat vich aa ke kadi byas jaan baare sochoge v nahi.je kadi jaoge he nahi tan kattarta vich aa ke sach ton door he rahoge.Kush log ta outhe jaan ton he darde han ke kite jadu toona hi na kar den .Ek 2 vaar jaoge ta main eh nahi kehnda ke tusi es paase tur pavoge PAR aini garranti hai ki kadi Galat v nahi bologe

regards
Paramjit Singhrangesingh:

Thanks but perhaps you should read my last post again before you jump to conclusions. I think I clearly stated that I have grown up with and known RS all my life and that I have RS relatives and family friends. Did you really think in that circumstance that I would not know anything about RS or have never attended a Satsang??

Let me ask you something else now.

Before we compare RS with any other spiritual path let's look at the different sects within RS. The Beas lineage is the most dominant but the Agra lineage is not far behind. There is a third and a less significant fourth as well I think but for now, let's compare RS Beas with RS Agra

There are fundamental differences between the two in terms of the relationship between the Master and the disciple and the initiation process and the names that are given at initiation

I am assuming someone as well informed as yourself will be aware of these differences and would welcome your views as to which path in your mind, is better and why

If you are not aware of these differences, then I suggest you invest some of your personal time in researching them before you come back to me on this

Looking forward to hearing from you soon

 

[spnadmin]

re: "Sab Sikhan Ko Hukam Hai Guru Manyo Granth" and the Roadhaswami

This was the problem raised by the thread starter. It boils down to this question: Do we need a living guru, as defined by the Radhasoami, to help us understand and learn from Sri Guru Granth Sahib, or other religions?

have a friend who has taken the path veering off sikhism into the radhasoami cult, and he, and the general RS population, I am led to believe, strongly believe that in order to learn from the religions of the world today, inc the Guru Granth Sahib, that there must be a living Guru, and as such they have had many 'gurus' to date.

The focus of discussion therefore needs to be on the radhasoami and their beliefs. Is a living guru required to learn and understand important religious texts including Sri Guru Granth Sahib? Not casting doubts on Sikh Gurus and their beliefs.

 

[Tejwant Singh]

re: "Sab Sikhan Ko Hukam Hai Guru Manyo Granth" and the Roadhaswami

The sect I have been impressed the most is the Radha Soami ( Beas ) sect . Their beliefs are either copied from Sikhism or plainly foolishly outrageous . But only due to better or CORPORATE MANAGEMENT OF THEIR BUSINESS they are not only doing good but flourishing . The thing they have done remarkable good is the Satsang they do everywhere is the REGIONAL LOCAL languages only . In Ahmedabad , the language is strictly Gujarati , similarly in Tamil Nadu the language is strictly Tamil only likewise is Bengali in Bengal , Marathi in Maharashtra . This is the biggest advantage of theirs IMHO over Sikhism where we are still stuck in the rut of Punjabi language . Sikhi is not only for Punjabis who are leaving it like there is no tommorrow . Sikhs should take example of Radha Soamis & try STRICTLY to use local languages only in Katha , Hukamnammas , written or oral . This is the msot basic requirement , there is no escaping from it . The more we postpone , the more damage we shall be doing to the cause of Panth . Today there is most urgent need of propagating the message of Sri Guru Granth Sahib to each & every human inhabitating this planet , there is no way we can teach them Punjabi especially when Punjabis are adopting Hindi like Hindi is an elitist language & our so called leaders are enjoying the fruits of power unaware of the happenings in their own backyard .

Dalbirk ji,

Guru fateh.

I totally agree with you. Their corporate management is amazing. They have made this a cynergenic business. They do nothing but sell snake oil but they sell it in such a way that make people feel that without this snake oil rub, there is nothing in life for them. That is why hundreds of thousands throng to the satsangs. There are special trains arranged for them.

I also agree with you that Sikhi should emulate their business model so that the Sikhi message should be transmitted in multiple languages. If we claim Sikhi having a universal message then we should adapt to the universal ways to get our message across.

Lastly, I would say is that all these derawala honchos who call themselves Gurus, rake money in the name of Sikhi, con people in the name of Sikhi should not be allowed to wear Sikh turbans. They should teach themselves to be truthful before selling their snake oil. But come to think if it, snake oil salesmanship does not need truth but lies.

Thanks & Regards

Tejwant Singh

 

[Jatt_Khehra]

Re: Sab sikhu ko hukam hay Guru manu Grath

i m sorry if i said us somewhere
why r u picking words literly
words r words anyone can use a word somewhere where others think it cannot be used
is it us only what u read in my comments
Apny Soch nu wadda karo gursikho jis v paase lagge ho lagge raho Mubarak hai par apne Dyerae kholo ta jo horan nu samjan da mauka mile
regards
Paramjit Singh Khehra

 

[Seeker9]

re: "Sab Sikhan Ko Hukam Hai Guru Manyo Granth" and the Roadhaswami

This was the problem raised by the thread starter. It boils down to this question: Do we need a living guru, as defined by the Radhasoami, to help us understand and learn from Sri Guru Granth Sahib, or other religions?



The focus of discussion therefore needs to be on the radhasoami and their beliefs. Is a living guru required to learn and understand important religious texts including Sri Guru Granth Sahib? Not casting doubts on Sikh Gurus and their beliefs.

Dear SPNadmin Ji

Thanks for the prompt

If a living human Master is a requirement, then I guess the majority of humanity, regardless of their spiritual endeavours, are doomed

As someone noted earlier, Buddhists, Muslims, Christians, Sikhs, Hindus, Jews and countless others must be doomed to failure as they have no living Master to guide them at present

Incidentally, I could be wrong but I don't think i have ever heard a RS Master justify their own existence in this manner during a Satsang. However I have heard them say that they will make you a better follower of your own religion.

So a contradiction there and my explanation would be that this is a common argument that I only hear from the mouths of RS disciples themselves, but not from their Master..at least not the RSSB Masters I have heard to date

Hence my earlier comment about a superiority complex

 

[Jatt_Khehra]

re: "Sab Sikhan Ko Hukam Hai Guru Manyo Granth" and the Roadhaswami

and if someone guides u in that path then what is wrong
if u feel ashamed to call him Guru

u can call him teacher, brother, a friend, or anyone
is something wrong in that

Regards
Paramjit Singh