Sikh Girls Who Do Not Cut Their Head Hair, But Remove All Other Hair On Their Bodies

[kds1980]

Re: Sikh Girls Who Do Not Cut Their Head Hair, But Remove All Other Hair on Their Bod

Here is a challenge for you, please provide one scripture proven to be written or dictated by Guru Gobing Singh ji that states a Sikh must not remove his/her hair or any hair on his/her body and i will gladly grow my hair forwith
Tony

Tony Ji And oThers

While reading this thread I remember One of my discussion On Rehat. It has some very good replies by vijaydeep singh On page2-4 Please click on following Lin.May be it could help any one here.

http://www.sikhism.us/sikh-sikhi-sikhism/7923-rehat.html

 

[tony]

Re: Sikh Girls Who Do Not Cut Their Head Hair, But Remove All Other Hair on Their Bod

Dear Singh ji
It is not my intention to belittle the Khalsa, I am merely trying to point out that many members do not practise the basics, there are those who take Amrit and carry the five K's and see this as the be all and end all, they see it as part of there culture not as the ultimate in a religious goal. It is these people who belittle and insult the Khalsa, And it is mainly these sort that I have come into contact with. the typical reponse i get when they notice the Kara on my wrist is how can you be a Sikh your not Indian. When I first took my Children to panjabi school not one of the Amritdhari sikhs there smiled at me, they just stared and when i approached them they looked the other way. Only the headmaster and one female teacher greeted me with Sat sri akal, Still after over 2 yrs there is still no real acceptance from them. The only Sikhs that do accept me are the none amritdhari those who have cut there hair and dont claim to be anything special. so is it any wonder that I dont see the importance of my hair. May be if the khalsa sikhs where more welcoming then Sikhism would be a much larger family. When I have learnt all i can and am able to follow the way of the Guru jis totally and honestly without thought for myself or any thing wordly, then I would consider it an honour to take Amrit, Untill such time I would be insulting Guru Gobing Singh ji. The Khalsa is for the purest of the pure as is pointed out by Namjap ji and if a person cannot conduct themselves in that way then they have no right to hold that honourable position. I have witnesses the every day attacks on Sikhs that you talk about and do my part to prevent it, and believe me when I say i will fight to defend what I believe in I will fight, having done so on many occasions getting myself into much trouble in doing so. This is just one of the many reasons from my past that I do not consider myself worthy to take Amrit and be a true representative of Sikhism. My only fear in life is that I may never reach this truely wonderful position and be able say I am a SINGH and be a true son of GURU GOBING SINGH JI. As for the hair bit, God didnt bless me with enough to be noticed, apart from my chin (and the ones that up my nose which appear to be rapidly replacing those on my head) the rest of me is virtually hair free, another reason I dont put much emphasice on it, May be he didnt love me as much as my Indian friends lol
Tony

 

[Astroboy]

Re: Sikh Girls Who Do Not Cut Their Head Hair, But Remove All Other Hair on Their Bod

ਗੁਰਮੁਖਿ ਰੋਮਿ ਰੋਮਿ ਹਰਿ ਧਿਆਵੈ ॥
गुरमुखि रोमि रोमि हरि धिआवै ॥
Gurmukẖ rom rom har ḏẖi▫āvai.
The Gurmukh meditates on the Lord with every hair of his body.(Ang 941)

 

[kds1980]

Re: Sikh Girls Who Do Not Cut Their Head Hair, But Remove All Other Hair on Their Bod

Dear Singh ji
It is not my intention to belittle the Khalsa, I am merely trying to point out that many members do not practise the basics, there are those who take Amrit and carry the five K's and see this as the be all and end all, they see it as part of there culture not as the ultimate in a religious goal. It is these people who belittle and insult the Khalsa, And it is mainly these sort that I have come into contact with. the typical reponse i get when they notice the Kara on my wrist is how can you be a Sikh your not Indian. When I first took my Children to panjabi school not one of the Amritdhari sikhs there smiled at me, they just stared and when i approached them they looked the other way. Only the headmaster and one female teacher greeted me with Sat sri akal, Still after over 2 yrs there is still no real acceptance from them. The only Sikhs that do accept me are the none amritdhari those who have cut there hair and dont claim to be anything special. so is it any wonder that I dont see the importance of my hair. May be if the khalsa sikhs where more welcoming then Sikhism would be a much larger family. When I have learnt all i can and am able to follow the way of the Guru jis totally and honestly without thought for myself or any thing wordly, then I would consider it an honour to take Amrit, Untill such time I would be insulting Guru Gobing Singh ji. The Khalsa is for the purest of the pure as is pointed out by Namjap ji and if a person cannot conduct themselves in that way then they have no right to hold that honourable position. I have witnesses the every day attacks on Sikhs that you talk about and do my part to prevent it, and believe me when I say i will fight to defend what I believe in I will fight, having done so on many occasions getting myself into much trouble in doing so. This is just one of the many reasons from my past that I do not consider myself worthy to take Amrit and be a true representative of Sikhism. My only fear in life is that I may never reach this truely wonderful position and be able say I am a SINGH and be a true son of GURU GOBING SINGH JI. As for the hair bit, God didnt bless me with enough to be noticed, apart from my chin (and the ones that up my nose which appear to be rapidly replacing those on my head) the rest of me is virtually hair free, another reason I dont put much emphasice on it, May be he didnt love me as much as my Indian friends lol
Tony

Dear Tony

I can understand your pain about non acceptance in sikh community.But you should also understand that 99% of sikhs are Punjabi and mostly Religious sikhs also practice punjabi culture.Making Inroads in another culture is quite difficuilt.Just look at islam though their is strong concept of muslim brotherhood is their in it but still after 14 centuries Arabs marry within their own community and practice arabic culture.They still not whole heartidly accept
Muslims from another culture in their own country.

Also let tell you another thing.Sikhism is divided in many sects now Like AKJ,Taksal missionaries etc Many of these sects followers are considered quite egoistic eg an AKJ follower is not going to accept a non veg sikh while there are many like us which are eating non veg food since out forefathers embraced sikhism.

 

[tony]

Re: Sikh Girls Who Do Not Cut Their Head Hair, But Remove All Other Hair on Their Bod

So Namjap ji the more hair I have the more I can worship God. How can a dead piece of hair worship anything please do tell. Hair gives nothing to your conscience, it has no practical use for the body as it is no longer used to keep heat in or to dispel heat it is a relic from our ancient ancestors. It isnt even connected to the brain so how can I meditate on God with it. Seems like your taking it out of context again probable using your hair to think for you.

 

[tony]

Re: Sikh Girls Who Do Not Cut Their Head Hair, But Remove All Other Hair on Their Bod

Kds ji Sikhism is supposed to be one big Family and all Guru jis said panjabi culture or any cultural believes have No place in Sikhism, NO caste, NO Creed, NO race, NO colour, so any person who follows culture cant be true Sikh as he doesnt even follow the basics. It is just an excuse to say it is hard to let go of culture because our friends and neighbour's wont accept us. Sikhism is about GOD way and not about culture, part of the culture I was brought up in was one of Racism should I still practice that and if I did would I be able to call myself a Sikh. The first Sikhs came from all cultures and adopted Sikhism regardless of what anyone thought of them, Yet excuses are made so the modern day Sikh can put on a uniform and practise their culture. Wheres the Guru jis thoughts in that and what mockery they make of those who gave their life's, I am simple white Englishman and have more respect for those who fought and died, When I chose Sikhism I gave up my culture and my friends who didnt agree with me. I was laughed at and have been involved in fights with Racists who where taunting Asians, all against what was once my culture. I have been fined at court for fighting and injuring a racist thug. When an old friend saw me with my partner he told me never to go back to my home town or some one will stab me, I went back and faced them the very next week. I never think that i have lost anything in my adoption of Sikhism, only gained the love of God. If culture is important then give up Sikhism. the two dont fit together
Tony

 

[Gyani Jarnail Singh]

Re: Sikh Girls Who Do Not Cut Their Head Hair, But Remove All Other Hair on Their Bod

So Namjap ji the more hair I have the more I can worship God. How can a dead piece of hair worship anything please do tell. Hair gives nothing to your conscience, it has no practical use for the body as it is no longer used to keep heat in or to dispel heat it is a relic from our ancient ancestors. It isnt even connected to the brain so how can I meditate on God with it. Seems like your taking it out of context again probable using your hair to think for you.

Tony Ji,

I dotn know whether the more hair i have the more holy..the more it makes me better..spiritual..whatever...or the other way around...

For ME..the Bottom line is..IF My GURU JI states that .."MY BELOVED has Long flowing Beautiful Hair...then I WANT to be like that GURU..His Beloved is MY Beloved and I want to LOOK like HIM at all costs..and if that is as easy as just refrain from cutting my hair...then its a very cheap bargain for me....people like Bhai Taru Singh had to have his scalp removed. AND so I have the GURBANI and the Sikh history as my "Motivation".
I dont pretend to be more holy than you just because my hair are longer than yours....and wont say it....BUT I SURE WANT TO COPY MY GURU at least PHYSICALLY..( as this is much much much easier) and also SPIRITUALLY ( extremely difficult ).

I May be thinking with my hair..but i feel its better than thinking with my cut off toe nails.
I will NEVER harm a single hair on my body at any cost....I "hope" I have the strength of Bhai taru Singh..if push comes to shove...

Chardeekalla Ji.

 

[tony]

Re: Sikh Girls Who Do Not Cut Their Head Hair, But Remove All Other Hair on Their Bod

Dear Gyani ji
I respect your wishes to look like the Guru jis but I like your sense of humour more. When the time comes and I thing that i am worthy I Will Take Armit, I could start growing my hair today nothing easier and in a couple of weeks take Amrit and call myself mr Singh again dead simple but it will never make me a Sikh, I prefer to start at the bottom and work my way up, learning all about what is involved and then when I put on the turban I'll know for sure its not just to make me look good, its because I'm a Sikh.
Tony

 

[Gyani Jarnail Singh]

Re: Sikh Girls Who Do Not Cut Their Head Hair, But Remove All Other Hair on Their Bod

Dear Gyani ji
I respect your wishes to look like the Guru jis but I like your sense of humour more. When the time comes and I thing that i am worthy I Will Take Armit, I could start growing my hair today nothing easier and in a couple of weeks take Amrit and call myself mr Singh again dead simple but it will never make me a Sikh, I prefer to start at the bottom and work my way up, learning all about what is involved and then when I put on the turban I'll know for sure its not just to make me look good, its because I'm a Sikh.
Tony

Tony Ji,

I am 60...this January...and I took Amrit on Sept 1st.....2005 !! Yes when I was 55 Years OLD..INSPITE of being BORN into a Family that traces Sikh roots back to Banda Singh's time on Both sides..and having GYANI grandparents..parents...although I always had "Sikhi sroop from as young as I can remeber..and learnt Gurbani at kindergarten age...and became a Gyani at age 18...BUT I took the Slow and steady route towards KHALSA....finally GRADUATING at age 55...after PRACTISING the REHIT for decades......so i can see where you are coming from..no problems....Time may not wait..BUT GURU JI sure DOES. My children are adults..none has taken Amrit yet..as they feel not ready yet...i never pressure them...just not my style. Somehow i feel my "Love affair" with Guru Ji is like an "arranged marriage"...Marry First (practise rehit)..and Love comes later (Khalsa-Hood)..unlike some who have
love marriages"...where the Love comes before marriage....i think BOTH ways can work !!BTW my worldy marriage is also an arranged one...i only saw my wife on my wedding day....and it has worked out super fine...:happy:

 

[tony]

Re: Sikh Girls Who Do Not Cut Their Head Hair, But Remove All Other Hair on Their Bod

Thank you Gyani ji
There is hope for me yet. I see Amrit as a goal to achieve and feel that if I where to take it to early it would slow down my eagerness to learn, A bit like getting the exam results before youve done the course and taken the exams, I have a love for Sikhism which gets stronger every day regardless of the way I'm treated, If God will accept me with no hair then thats enough for me at the moment. At the moment the Guru Granth Sahib ji is my guide and as there is controversy regarding the Dasam Granth It may confuse things even further, the likes of yourselve, Tejwant ji and Kds ji are always mentioned in my prayers for the understanding you have all shown me, May God always Bless you with lots of Hair
Tony

 

[Tejwant Singh]

Re: Sikh Girls Who Do Not Cut Their Head Hair, But Remove All Other Hair on Their Bod

ਗੁਰਮੁਖਿ ਰੋਮਿ ਰੋਮਿ ਹਰਿ ਧਿਆਵੈ ॥
गुरमुखि रोमि रोमि हरि धिआवै ॥
Gurmukẖ rom rom har ḏẖi▫āvai.
The Gurmukh meditates on the Lord with every hair of his body.(Ang 941)

Namjap ji,

Guru Fateh.

What I am going to say here should not be taken as an offence although your practice of copying and pasting many verses with distorted and misleading transliteration continues despite many reminders from myself and from Gyani ji.

We are all Sikhs- learners here and we all know people visit this forum from different walks of life,faiths,creeds and hues to learn and interact about Sikhi.. Some of them are born in Sikh families but are not exposed to Gurmat ideals. Some like Tony and others who had different faiths before got attracted to the scent of Sikhi and want to learn about it. Because of this we have to be extra careful how we project Gurbani and it is our duty to offer its correct interpretation.

You have done the same thing that you did yesterday in the same thread and despite my request to you to give in your own words the interpretation of the whole shabad, it has not happened yet. I urge you to do so.

Now coming back to your above partial verse. As you know very well that this Shabad from Sidh gosht has 73 verses and you took a little part of the verse number 27 and posted it to prove your some point which has nothing to do with keeping or not keeping hair.

For your benefit, I have put the first verse, the rahao, the whole verse of your partial one and the last one which ends with the number 73II1. This number 1 at the end has a lot of significance. Please go through all this and share your wisdom on this Shabad and the one you posted yesterday.

As I said before no offence intended. We are all Sikhs, hence learners-students-seekers.

Regards

Tejwant Singh




ਰਾਮਕਲੀ ਮਹਲਾ ੧ ਸਿਧ ਗੋਸਟਿ ੴ ਸਤਿਗੁਰ ਪ੍ਰਸਾਦਿ ॥ ਸਿਧ ਸਭਾ ਕਰਿ ਆਸਣਿ ਬੈਠੇ ਸੰਤ ਸਭਾ ਜੈਕਾਰੋ ॥ ਤਿਸੁ ਆਗੈ ਰਹਰਾਸਿ ਹਮਾਰੀ ਸਾਚਾ ਅਪਰ ਅਪਾਰੋ ॥ ਮਸਤਕੁ ਕਾਟਿ ਧਰੀ ਤਿਸੁ ਆਗੈ ਤਨੁ ਮਨੁ ਆਗੈ ਦੇਉ ॥ ਨਾਨਕ ਸੰਤੁ ਮਿਲੈ ਸਚੁ ਪਾਈਐ ਸਹਜ ਭਾਇ ਜਸੁ ਲੇਉ ॥੧॥ {ਪੰਨਾ 938}


ਕਿਆ ਭਵੀਐ ਸਚਿ ਸੂਚਾ ਹੋਇ ॥ ਸਾਚ ਸਬਦ ਬਿਨੁ ਮੁਕਤਿ ਨ ਕੋਇ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥ {ਪੰਨਾ 938}

ਗੁਰਮੁਖਿ ਸਾਚੇ ਕਾ ਭਉ ਪਾਵੈ ॥ ਗੁਰਮੁਖਿ ਬਾਣੀ ਅਘੜੁ ਘੜਾਵੈ ॥ ਗੁਰਮੁਖਿ ਨਿਰਮਲ ਹਰਿ ਗੁਣ ਗਾਵੈ ॥ ਗੁਰਮੁਖਿ ਪਵਿਤ੍ਰੁ ਪਰਮ ਪਦੁ ਪਾਵੈ ॥ ਗੁਰਮੁਖਿ ਰੋਮਿ ਰੋਮਿ ਹਰਿ ਧਿਆਵੈ ॥ ਨਾਨਕ ਗੁਰਮੁਖਿ ਸਾਚਿ ਸਮਾਵੈ ॥੨੭॥ {ਪੰਨਾ 941}

ਤੇਰੀ ਗਤਿ ਮਿਤਿ ਤੂਹੈ ਜਾਣਹਿ ਕਿਆ ਕੋ ਆਖਿ ਵਖਾਣੈ ॥ ਤੂ ਆਪੇ ਗੁਪਤਾ ਆਪੇ ਪਰਗਟੁ ਆਪੇ ਸਭਿ ਰੰਗ ਮਾਣੈ ॥ ਸਾਧਿਕ ਸਿਧ ਗੁਰੂ ਬਹੁ ਚੇਲੇ ਖੋਜਤ ਫਿਰਹਿ ਫੁਰਮਾਣੈ ॥ ਮਾਗਹਿ ਨਾਮੁ ਪਾਇ ਇਹ ਭਿਖਿਆ ਤੇਰੇ ਦਰਸਨ ਕਉ ਕੁਰਬਾਣੈ ॥ ਅਬਿਨਾਸੀ ਪ੍ਰਭਿ ਖੇਲੁ ਰਚਾਇਆ ਗੁਰਮੁਖਿ ਸੋਝੀ ਹੋਈ ॥ ਨਾਨਕ ਸਭਿ ਜੁਗ ਆਪੇ ਵਰਤੈ ਦੂਜਾ ਅਵਰੁ ਨ ਕੋਈ ॥੭੩॥੧॥ {ਪੰਨਾ 946}

 

[tony]

Re: Sikh Girls Who Do Not Cut Their Head Hair, But Remove All Other Hair on Their Bod

I have spent the last three days searching many sources to find out where it is said that to remove hair is wrong or to keep hair is right. the only mention of the removal of hair in the SGGS ji is that thinking the removal or retention to cleanse the mind/soul or bring salvation is wrong. It is clearly stated that only by meditating/ thinking constantly of God and that the birth death cycle can be broken. If Guru Gobing Singh ji had stated that the removal of your hair was wrong then why did he not add it to the SGGS ji at the same time that he included his fathers works. If he thought that his lost works where an important part of a Sikhs spiritual well being then why did he not order during his life that the writings where collected again. It is also thought by some that the Panj Pyare where given Five weapons not the five Ks and that it was change to these later,( these are not my own thoughts nor do I necessarily agree with them). If members of the Khalsa believe so strongly in Guru jis words then why do they continue to defie him with keeping of Panjabi culture, Also I cannt find anywhere it says a turban must be worn, Was it not Guru Arjan Dev ji who wrote, Man professes one thing and practises quite another.In his heart there is no love, but with his mouth he talks tall. the omniescient Lord, who is inner knower, is not pleased with the decietful show of garment of such person, ( mention of turban and the word garment are not related ). So the logical conclusion is that the keeping of hair is a mark of remembrance to the Sikhs who died for what they believed in and to look like the Guru jis. The khalsa should try to remember that it is there job not to coherse new members but to nuture them, and one other thing should you not on joining the khalsa drop your family name and just use the name Singh as did the Panj Pyare. To much me me me and not enough we/ us in modern khalsa. Too many sects saying Im right your wrong do it my way, Too much EGO what ever discription, too many members displaying pride. All Sikhs need to step back wipe tradition from there mind, drop culture, read SGGS and start learning again. All answers are in SGGS if you dont twist them to suit. Too many mortal men interfering with God given words of Guru jis, How long before we start fighting ourselfs like muslims and christians do. The Panj Pyare stood up and offered theirs heads to Guru ji, how many these days would even offer their Mercs. How many walk around with some one elses name on their clothes ( armani gouchi and the rest) look at me ive made it ive achieved. man at shop big merc but cant even give me a smile, none khalsa belittling the Khalsa because it dont suit their life style, Khalsa belittle themselves because of their lifestyle. they say that they have been rewarded by God then so have the Drug dealers who they look like.I had more money less worries when I was a racist thug so may be i should go back to that. Provide prove in the requirement of hair or say nothing. Gyani ji no disrepect to yourself but love comes first then marriage. the love of God then the marriage when perfect to the khalsa because if you do it the other way then the Khalsa contains impurities. Rehat maryada 1945, last Sikh guru 1708, SGGS ji final edition 1706, Dasam granth 1907 whos changing to suit. 2009 deal in untruths and lie through your teeth. End of
Tony

 

[Astroboy]

Re: Sikh Girls Who Do Not Cut Their Head Hair, But Remove All Other Hair on Their Bod

Namjap ji,

Guru Fateh.

What I am going to say here should not be taken as an offence although your practice of copying and pasting many verses with distorted and misleading transliteration continues despite many reminders from myself and from Gyani ji.

You either pick up the sugar or the sand. The choice is yours.
ਹਰਿ ਹੈ ਖਾਂਡੁ ਰੇਤੁ ਮਹਿ ਬਿਖਰੀ ਹਾਥੀ ਚੁਨੀ ਨ ਜਾਇ ॥
हरि है खांडु रेतु महि बिखरी हाथी चुनी न जाइ ॥
Har hai kẖāʼnd reṯ mėh bikẖrī hāthī cẖunī na jā▫e.
The Lord is like sugar, scattered in the sand; the elephant cannot pick it up.

ਕਹਿ ਕਬੀਰ ਗੁਰਿ ਭਲੀ ਬੁਝਾਈ ਕੀਟੀ ਹੋਇ ਕੈ ਖਾਇ ॥੨੩੮॥
कहि कबीर गुरि भली बुझाई कीटी होइ कै खाइ ॥२३८॥
Kahi Kabīr gur bẖalī bujẖā▫ī kītī ho▫e kai kẖā▫e. ||238||
Says Kabeer, the Guru has given me this sublime understanding: become an ant, and feed on it. ||238||

ਕਬੀਰ ਜਉ ਤੁਹਿ ਸਾਧ ਪਿਰੰਮ ਕੀ ਸੀਸੁ ਕਾਟਿ ਕਰਿ ਗੋਇ ॥
कबीर जउ तुहि साध पिरम की सीसु काटि करि गोइ ॥
Kabīr ja▫o ṯuhi sāḏẖ piramm kī sīs kāt kar go▫e.
Kabeer, if you desire to play the game of love with the Lord, then cut off your head, and make it into a ball.

ਖੇਲਤ ਖੇਲਤ ਹਾਲ ਕਰਿ ਜੋ ਕਿਛੁ ਹੋਇ ਤ ਹੋਇ ॥੨੩੯॥
खेलत खेलत हाल करि जो किछु होइ त होइ ॥२३९॥
Kẖelaṯ kẖelaṯ hāl kar jo kicẖẖ ho▫e ṯa ho▫e. ||239||
Lose yourself in the play of it, and then whatever will be, will be. ||239||

 

[Astroboy]

Re: Sikh Girls Who Do Not Cut Their Head Hair, But Remove All Other Hair on Their Bod

What question of hair remains or ego remains when you've cut off your head?

 

[Tejwant Singh]

Re: Sikh Girls Who Do Not Cut Their Head Hair, But Remove All Other Hair on Their Bod

From Tejwant
Namjap ji,

Guru Fateh.

What I am going to say here should not be taken as an offence although your practice of copying and pasting many verses with distorted and misleading transliteration continues despite many reminders from myself and from Gyani ji.

You either pick up the sugar or the sand. The choice is yours.
ਹਰਿ ਹੈ ਖਾਂਡੁ ਰੇਤੁ ਮਹਿ ਬਿਖਰੀ ਹਾਥੀ ਚੁਨੀ ਨ ਜਾਇ ॥
हरि है खांडु रेतु महि बिखरी हाथी चुनी न जाइ ॥
Har hai kẖāʼnd reṯ mėh bikẖrī hāthī cẖunī na jā▫e.
The Lord is like sugar, scattered in the sand; the elephant cannot pick it up.

ਕਹਿ ਕਬੀਰ ਗੁਰਿ ਭਲੀ ਬੁਝਾਈ ਕੀਟੀ ਹੋਇ ਕੈ ਖਾਇ ॥੨੩੮॥
कहि कबीर गुरि भली बुझाई कीटी होइ कै खाइ ॥२३८॥
Kahi Kabīr gur bẖalī bujẖā▫ī kītī ho▫e kai kẖā▫e. ||238||
Says Kabeer, the Guru has given me this sublime understanding: become an ant, and feed on it. ||238||

ਕਬੀਰ ਜਉ ਤੁਹਿ ਸਾਧ ਪਿਰੰਮ ਕੀ ਸੀਸੁ ਕਾਟਿ ਕਰਿ ਗੋਇ ॥
कबीर जउ तुहि साध पिरम की सीसु काटि करि गोइ ॥
Kabīr ja▫o ṯuhi sāḏẖ piramm kī sīs kāt kar go▫e.
Kabeer, if you desire to play the game of love with the Lord, then cut off your head, and make it into a ball.

ਖੇਲਤ ਖੇਲਤ ਹਾਲ ਕਰਿ ਜੋ ਕਿਛੁ ਹੋਇ ਤ ਹੋਇ ॥੨੩੯॥
खेलत खेलत हाल करि जो किछु होइ त होइ ॥२३९॥
Kẖelaṯ kẖelaṯ hāl kar jo kicẖẖ ho▫e ṯa ho▫e. ||239||
Lose yourself in the play of it, and then whatever will be, will be. ||239||

Namjap ji,

Guru Fateh.

I presume that your above post is in response to my 2 objections to you regarding your posting distorted, misleading transliterations of the partial Shabads because my post is in the "quote" although it is not addressed to me.

And I requested you to post the whole Shabads with your own understanding in English so other people who do not read, write or understand Gurmukhi can understand what you are trying to say and how it is related to the thread.

Your above non-response-response is a bit puzzling. Can you please clarify it for me and please posts the Shabads as requested?

One more question that may help to clarify what you may be trying to share.

Can you please explain the difference betweem ROM and KESH in your own words because Gurbani uses both words although KESH is used more often than ROM?

Your input is important because by understanding what you are trying to say by quoting Gurbani is the only learning process.

Thanks

Tejwant Singh

 

[Astroboy]

Re: Sikh Girls Who Do Not Cut Their Head Hair, But Remove All Other Hair on Their Bod

Tejwant Singh Ji,

I am the student here and was hoping to be corrected by Mentors like yourself and Gyani Ji.
So please do correct me and I will be grateful.
Thanks.

 

[Tejwant Singh]

Re: Sikh Girls Who Do Not Cut Their Head Hair, But Remove All Other Hair on Their Bod

Tejwant Singh Ji,

I am the student here and was hoping to be corrected by Mentors like yourself and Gyani Ji.
So please do correct me and I will be grateful.
Thanks.

Namjap ji,
Guru Fateh.

Thanks for the compliment. During the time I was reading your post, somehow my chest got inflated all of a sudden and I have to restitch a couple of buttons on my shirt in result of that.

I am just a simple Sikh-a learner,a student,a seeker. Nothing else. Nor do I intend or pretend to be anything else but a student and shall remain so with His grace.

However, I am still puzzled by your response to my questions with your above quotes from SGGS. Can you please elaborate what you are trying to convey so I can understand how they are related to my queries?

And as I asked you in my previous post the difference between ROM and KESH as you have quoted both in the transtliterations as HAIR?

Interaction is very important. It helps us clarify what we are trying to convey.


Thanks

Tejwant Singh

 

[vsgrewal48895]

Re: Sikh Girls Who Do Not Cut Their Head Hair, But Remove All Other Hair on Their Bod

I have spent the last three days searching many sources to find out where it is said that to remove hair is wrong or to keep hair is right. the only mention of the removal of hair in the SGGS ji is that thinking the removal or retention to cleanse the mind/soul or bring salvation is wrong. It is clearly stated that only by meditating/ thinking constantly of God and that the birth death cycle can be broken. If Guru Gobing Singh ji had stated that the removal of your hair was wrong then why did he not add it to the SGGS ji at the same time that he included his fathers works. If he thought that his lost works where an important part of a Sikhs spiritual well being then why did he not order during his life that the writings where collected again. It is also thought by some that the Panj Pyare where given Five weapons not the five Ks and that it was change to these later,( these are not my own thoughts nor do I necessarily agree with them). If members of the Khalsa believe so strongly in Guru jis words then why do they continue to defie him with keeping of Panjabi culture, Also I cannt find anywhere it says a turban must be worn, Was it not Guru Arjan Dev ji who wrote, Man professes one thing and practises quite another.In his heart there is no love, but with his mouth he talks tall. the omniescient Lord, who is inner knower, is not pleased with the decietful show of garment of such person, ( mention of turban and the word garment are not related ). So the logical conclusion is that the keeping of hair is a mark of remembrance to the Sikhs who died for what they believed in and to look like the Guru jis. The khalsa should try to remember that it is there job not to coherse new members but to nuture them, and one other thing should you not on joining the khalsa drop your family name and just use the name Singh as did the Panj Pyare. To much me me me and not enough we/ us in modern khalsa. Too many sects saying Im right your wrong do it my way, Too much EGO what ever discription, too many members displaying pride. All Sikhs need to step back wipe tradition from there mind, drop culture, read SGGS and start learning again. All answers are in SGGS if you dont twist them to suit. Too many mortal men interfering with God given words of Guru jis, How long before we start fighting ourselfs like muslims and christians do. The Panj Pyare stood up and offered theirs heads to Guru ji, how many these days would even offer their Mercs. How many walk around with some one elses name on their clothes ( armani gouchi and the rest) look at me ive made it ive achieved. man at shop big merc but cant even give me a smile, none khalsa belittling the Khalsa because it dont suit their life style, Khalsa belittle themselves because of their lifestyle. they say that they have been rewarded by God then so have the Drug dealers who they look like.I had more money less worries when I was a racist thug so may be i should go back to that. Provide prove in the requirement of hair or say nothing. Gyani ji no disrepect to yourself but love comes first then marriage. the love of God then the marriage when perfect to the khalsa because if you do it the other way then the Khalsa contains impurities. Rehat maryada 1945, last Sikh guru 1708, SGGS ji final edition 1706, Dasam granth 1907 whos changing to suit. 2009 deal in untruths and lie through your teeth. End of
Tony

Dear Toni Ji,

We have discussed AGGS and let us see what Guru Gobind creator of Khalsa has to say in his Akal Ustit about various kinds of worship and actions;

ਕਹੂੰ ਨਿਵਲੀ ਕਰਮ ਕਰੰਤ ॥ ਕਹੂੰ ਪਉਨ ਅਹਾਰ ਦੁਰੰਤ ॥ਕਹੂੰ ਤੀਰਥ ਦਾਨ ਅਪਾਰ ॥ ਕਹੂੰ ਜੱਗ ਕਰਮ ਉਦਾਰ ॥ਕਹੂੰ ਅਗਨ ਹੋਤ੍ਰ ਅਨੂਪ ॥ ਕਹੂੰ ਨਿਆਇ ਰਾਜ ਬਿਭੂਤ ॥ਕਹੂੰ ਸਾਸਤ੍ਰ ਸਿੰਮ੍ਰਿਤਿ ਰੀਤ ॥ ਕਹੂੰ ਬੇਦ ਸਿਉ ਬਿਪ੍ਰੀਤ ॥ਕਈ ਦੇਸ ਦੇਸ ਫਿਰੰਤ ॥ ਕਈ ਏਕ ਠੌਰ ਇਸਥੰਤ ॥ਕਹੂੰ ਕਰਤ ਜਲ ਮਹਿ ਜਾਪ ॥ ਕਹੂੰ ਸਹਤ ਤਨ ਪਰ ਤਾਪ ॥ਕਹੂੰ ਬਾਸ ਬਨਹਿ ਕਰੰਤ ॥ ਕਹੂੰ ਤਾਪ ਤਨਹਿ ਸਹੰਤ ॥ਕਹੂੰ ਗ੍ਰਿਹਸਤ ਧਰਮ ਅਪਾਰ ॥ ਕਹੂੰ ਰਾਜ ਰੀਤ ਉਦਾਰ ॥ਕਹੂੰ ਰੋਗ ਰਹਤ ਅਭਰਮ ॥ ਕਹੂੰ ਕਰਮ ਕਰਤ ਅਕਰਮ ॥ਕਹੂੰ ਸੇਖ ਬ੍ਰਹਮ ਸਰੂਪ ॥ ਕਹੂੰ ਨੀਤ ਰਾਜ ਅਨੂਪ ॥ਕਹੂੰ ਰੋਗ ਸੋਗ ਬਿਹੀਨ ॥ ਕਹੂੰ ਏਕ ਭਗਤ ਅਧੀਨ ॥ਕਹੂੰ ਰੰਕ ਰਾਜ ਕੁਮਾਰ ॥ ਕਹੂੰ ਬੇਦ ਬਿਆਸ ਅਵਤਾਰ ॥ਕਈ ਬ੍ਰਹਮ ਬੇਦ ਰਟੰਤ ॥ ਕਈ ਸੇਖ ਨਾਮ ਉਚਰੰਤ ॥ਬੈਰਾਗ ਕਹੂੰ ਸੰਨਿਆਸ ॥ ਕਹੂੰ ਫਿਰਤ ਰੂਪ ਉਦਾਸ ॥

Many perform Neoli (a yogic exercise, performed in a sitting posture, with hunched shoulders, in which the abdomen muscles are rotated in order to cleanse the intestines) rituals of Yogis of purging intestines. There are innumerable who subsist on air. Many offer great charities at pilgrim-stations. Benevolent sacrificial rituals are performed. Somewhere exquisite fire-worship is arranged. Somewhere justice is done with emblem of royalty. Somewhere ceremonies are performed in accordance with Shastras and Smritis; somewhere the performance is antagonistic to Vedic injunctions. Many wander in various countries; many stay only at one place. Somewhere the meditation is performed in water; somewhere heat is endured on the body. Somewhere some reside in the forest; somewhere heat is endured on the body. Somewhere many follow the house holder’s path; somewhere many followed the tradition of kings being bounteous. Somewhere people are without ailment and illusion; somewhere forbidden actions are being done. Somewhere there are Sheikhs; somewhere there ate Brahmins, somewhere there is the prevalence of unique politics. Somewhere someone is without suffering and ailment, somewhere someone follows the path of devotion closely. Somewhere someone is poor and some one a prince, somewhere someone is incarnation of Ved Vyas. Some Brahmins recite Vedas, some Sheikhs repeat the Name of the God. Somewhere there is a follower of the path of detachment and somewhere one follows the path of asceticism, somewhere someone wanders as an ascetic.

ਸਭ ਕਰਮ ਫੋਕਟ ਜਾਨ ॥ ਸਭ ਧਰਮ ਨਿਹਫਲ ਮਾਨ ॥ਬਿਨ ਏਕ ਨਾਮ ਅਧਾਰ ॥ ਸਭ ਕਰਮ ਭਰਮ ਬਿਚਾਰ ॥੨੦॥੫੦॥

Know that all the above actions as useless; consider all the religious paths of no value. Without the prop of the only Name of the God, all the actions are considered as illusion.20.50.-----Guru Gobind Singh, DG, Page, 15 & 16

Dasam Granth, Akal Ustat, Page 19;

ਕੋਊਭਇਓਮੁੰਡੀਆਸੰਨਿਆਸੀ ਕੋਊਜੋਗੀਭਇਓ ਕੋਊਬ੍ਹਮਚਾਰੀਕੋਊਜਤੀਅਨਮਾਨਬੋ॥
ਹਿੰਦੂਤੁਰਕਕੋਊਰਾਫਜ਼ੀਇਮਾਮਸਾਫੀਮਾਨਸਕੀਜਾਤਸਭੈਏਕੈਪਹਿਚਾਨਬੋ॥
ਕਰਤਾਕਰੀਮਸੋਈਰਾਜ਼ਕਰਹੀਮਓਈਦੂਸਰੋਨਭੇਦਕੋਈਭੂਲਭ੍ਮਮਾਨਬੋ॥
ਏਕਹੀਕੀਸੇਵਸਭਹੀਕੋਗੁਰਦੇਵਏਕਏਕਹੀਸਰੂਪਸਭੈਏਕੈਜੋਤਜਾਨਬੋ॥੧੫॥੮੫੫॥

Kouo Bheio Mundia Sanyasi Kouo Jogi BhaeoKouo Brahmchari Kouo Jati Anmanbo,
Hindu Turk Kouo Rafzi Imamsafi Manski Jaat Sabhai Aykai Pehchanbo.
Karta Krim Soee Raazk Rahim Ouee Doosro Na Bhed Koee Bhool Bharm Manbo.
Ayk He Ki Sev Sabhi Ko Gurdev Ayk Ayk He Saroop Sabhai Aykai Jot Janbo.

Some people in the world call them selves clean shaven, some ascetics, some devotee,some celebates. Some call themselves Hindu, some Turk, some Shia others Suni Muslman. But the entire human kind/caste should be recognized one. The same One Creator (Akal Purkh) who is merciful, compassionate, generous, providing daily sustenance, and has no other peer or dualism; so we must never accept any duality. To serve the only One is our duty. Akal Purkh alone is the Guru of all. All mankind be taken as one manifestation of Its light.

ਦੇਹਰਾ ਮਸੀਤ ਸੋਈ ਪੂਜਾ ਔ ਨਿਵਾਜ ਓਈ ਮਾਨਸ ਸਬੈ ਏਕ ਪੈ ਅਨੇਕ ਕੋ ਭ੍ਰਮਾਉ ਹੈ ॥
ਦੇਵਤਾ ਅਦੇਵ ਜੱਛ ਗੰਧ੍ਰਬ ਤੁਰਕ ਹਿੰਦੂ ਨਿਆਰੇ ਨਿਆਰੇ ਦੇਸਨ ਕੇ ਭੇਸ ਕੋ ਪ੍ਰਭਾਉ ਹੈ ॥
ਏਕੈ ਨੈਨ ਏਕੈ ਕਾਨ ਏਕੈ ਦੇਹ ਏਕੈ ਬਾਨ ਖਾਕ ਬਾਦ ਆਤਿਸ ਔ ਆਬ ਕੋ ਰਲਾਉ ਹੈ ॥
ਅਲਹ ਅਭੇਖ ਸੋਈ ਪੁਰਾਨ ਅਉ ਕੁਰਾਨ ਓਈ ਏਕ ਹੀ ਸਰੂਪ ਸਭੈ ਏਕ ਹੀ ਬਨਾਉ ਹੈ ॥੧੬॥੮੬॥

Dehra Maseet Soee Pooja Aou Nivaj Ouee Maanas Sabhai Ayk Pai Anek Ko Bharmaou Hai.
Devta Adev Chaj Gandhrab Turk Hindu Niaray Niaray Daysan Ke Bhays Ko Parbhaou Hai.
Aykai Nain Aykai Kaan Aykai Deh Aykai Baan Khak Baad Aatesh Aou Aaab Ko Ralaou Hai.
Allah Abhekh Soee Puraan Aou Quran Ouee Ayk He Saroop Sabhai Ayk He Banaou Hai

The temple and the mosque are the same, there is no difference between a Hindu worship and Muslim prayer; all the human beings are the same, but the illusion is of various types. The gods, demons, Yakshas, Gandharvas, Turks and Hindus… all these are due to the differences of the various garbs of different countries. The eyes are the same, the ears the same, the bodies are the same and the habits are the same, all the creation is the amalgam of earth, air, fire and water. Allah of Muslims and Abhekh (Guiseless) of Hindus are the same; the Puranas of Hindus and the holy Quran of the Muslims depict the same reality; all have been created in the image of the same God and have the same formation.

Here Guru Gobind Singh removes all the doubts and duality between humanity; not only in between Amritdhari & Sehjdhari but between every one on this earth.

ਜਿਨਪੇ੍ਮਕੀਉਤਿਨਹੀਪ੍ਭੁਪਾਇਓ॥

ਕਹਾਭਯੋਦੋਊਲੋਚਨਮੂੰਦਕੈਬੈਠਿਰਹਿਓਬਕਧਯਾਨਲਗਾਇਓ॥ਬਾਸੁਕੀਓਬਿਖਿਆਨਸੋਬੈਠਕੈਐਸੇਹੀਐਸਸੁਬੈਸਬਤਾਇਓ॥ਸਾਚੁਕਹੌਸੁਨਲੇਹੁਸਭੈਜਿਨਪੇ੍ਮਕੀਉਤਿਨਹੀਪ੍ਭੁਪਾਇਓ॥੯॥੨੯॥ ਕਾਹੂਲੈਪਾਹਨਪੂਜਧਰੋਸਿਰਕਾਹੂਲੈਲਿੰਗੁਗਰੇਲਟਕਾਇਓ॥ਕਾਹੂ ਲਖਿਓਹਰਿਅਵਾਚੀਦਿਸਾਮੈਕਾਹੂਪਛਾਹਕੋਸੀਸਨਿਵਾਇਓ॥ਕੋਊਬੁਤਾਨਕੌਪੂਜਤਹੈਪਸੁਕੋਊਮਿਤਾ੍ਨਕੌਪੂਜਨਧਾਇਓ॥ਕੂਰਕਿ੍ਆਉਰਝਿਓਸਭਜਗਸੀ੍ਭਗਵਾਨਕੋਭੇਦੁਨਪਾਇਓ॥੧੦॥੩੦॥

KahaBhaeo Douo Lochan Moondkay Baith Rehio Bak Dhayan Lagaio, Baas Keo Bikhian Se Baith Ke Ais So Bais Bataio,Saach Kahou Sun Leh Sabhai Jin Prem Kio Tin He Prabh Paio.Kaho Lai Paahan Pooj Dharo Sir Kaho Lai Ling Latkaio. Kaho Lakhio Har Avchari Disa Mai Kaho Pacha Ko Sis Nivaio. Kouo Butaan Kaou Poojat Hai Paso Kaou Mitan Kaou Poojan Dhaio. Koor Kiria Ourjhio Sabh Jag Siri Bhagvan Ko Bhed Na Paeio.

What if you close your eyes and sit in meditation like a crane/heron; take ablutions in the seven seas- but this way you loose both this world and the next; if one continues to indulge in sinful things, he wastes his life; Let all listen to the truth I proclaim- only he who loves attains the God. Some worship the stone idol and other wear a lingam around their neck; some recognize God in the south and others bow their heads to the west; some ignorant ones worship the images and others worship the dead; the entire world is engrossed in false rituals and none knows the mystery of the Divine. -----Guru Gobind Singh, Akal Ustit, D.G. Page, 14-15

Cordially,
Virinder S. Grewal
Williamston, MI

 

[Astroboy]

Re: Sikh Girls Who Do Not Cut Their Head Hair, But Remove All Other Hair on Their Bod

Can you please explain the difference betweem ROM and KESH in your own words because Gurbani uses both words although KESH is used more often than ROM?

I have the least idea.

 

[Tejwant Singh]

Re: Sikh Girls Who Do Not Cut Their Head Hair, But Remove All Other Hair on Their Bod

I have spent the last three days searching many sources to find out where it is said that to remove hair is wrong or to keep hair is right. the only mention of the removal of hair in the SGGS ji is that thinking the removal or retention to cleanse the mind/soul or bring salvation is wrong. It is clearly stated that only by meditating/ thinking constantly of God and that the birth death cycle can be broken. If Guru Gobing Singh ji had stated that the removal of your hair was wrong then why did he not add it to the SGGS ji at the same time that he included his fathers works. If he thought that his lost works where an important part of a Sikhs spiritual well being then why did he not order during his life that the writings where collected again. It is also thought by some that the Panj Pyare where given Five weapons not the five Ks and that it was change to these later,( these are not my own thoughts nor do I necessarily agree with them). If members of the Khalsa believe so strongly in Guru jis words then why do they continue to defie him with keeping of Panjabi culture, Also I cannt find anywhere it says a turban must be worn, Was it not Guru Arjan Dev ji who wrote, Man professes one thing and practises quite another.In his heart there is no love, but with his mouth he talks tall. the omniescient Lord, who is inner knower, is not pleased with the decietful show of garment of such person, ( mention of turban and the word garment are not related ). So the logical conclusion is that the keeping of hair is a mark of remembrance to the Sikhs who died for what they believed in and to look like the Guru jis. The khalsa should try to remember that it is there job not to coherse new members but to nuture them, and one other thing should you not on joining the khalsa drop your family name and just use the name Singh as did the Panj Pyare. To much me me me and not enough we/ us in modern khalsa. Too many sects saying Im right your wrong do it my way, Too much EGO what ever discription, too many members displaying pride. All Sikhs need to step back wipe tradition from there mind, drop culture, read SGGS and start learning again. All answers are in SGGS if you dont twist them to suit. Too many mortal men interfering with God given words of Guru jis, How long before we start fighting ourselfs like muslims and christians do. The Panj Pyare stood up and offered theirs heads to Guru ji, how many these days would even offer their Mercs. How many walk around with some one elses name on their clothes ( armani gouchi and the rest) look at me ive made it ive achieved. man at shop big merc but cant even give me a smile, none khalsa belittling the Khalsa because it dont suit their life style, Khalsa belittle themselves because of their lifestyle. they say that they have been rewarded by God then so have the Drug dealers who they look like.I had more money less worries when I was a racist thug so may be i should go back to that. Provide prove in the requirement of hair or say nothing. Gyani ji no disrepect to yourself but love comes first then marriage. the love of God then the marriage when perfect to the khalsa because if you do it the other way then the Khalsa contains impurities. Rehat maryada 1945, last Sikh guru 1708, SGGS ji final edition 1706, Dasam granth 1907 whos changing to suit. 2009 deal in untruths and lie through your teeth. End of
Tony

Tony,

Guru Fateh.

Please allow me to pitch in regarding this subject which has created many conflicts especially for people like you who have embraced Sikhi as a way of life but still fail to grasp the co-relation and the importance of Sikh symbols such has hair to begin with and then Kakaars if one decides to take Khandei de pahul.

Not all hair keeping Sikhs take Khandei de Pahul and that does not take away anything away from their works. I know many of them who are devout Sikhs and do Seva and help humanity.

Having said that, it is also important to notice that all our Gurus kept their hair. Guru Tegh Bahadur, our 9th Guru gave his life not only for the Hindus so they could remain as they were but he also refused to become a Muslim hence refused to cut his own hair.

Then later in Sikh history which is quite recent, Gursikhs like Bhai Taru Singh, Bhai Mani Singh and many others gave their lives for the same.

It is not about keeping or not keeping hair. It is a lot more than that. It is about conviction of love towards Ik Ong Kaar. Why chop something that is been bestowed on us by THE SOURCE? Hair does have its utility otherwise we would not have it. For example hair in the nose act like filters. On the head it protects our scalp underneath which the brain is located.

One can understand and appreciate the importance of hair in the animal kingdom, Ik Ong Kaar has given hair to the animals for survival those who have it, and they do have it for a reason. One can go on and on.

So, If I may say so, your obstinated stand on hair is creating a stumbling block within you for your own learning process for the way of life called Sikhi that you have embraced.

Sikhi is a big tent because we are all learners. We all see different images in the Sikhi kaledieoscope. So If I were you, I will continue my journey in Sikhi and perhaps one day, hopefully you will cultivate enough love,passion,grit and inner solace that keeping hair and having a turban would be a nice icing on the cake and it would not be just be for a decorative reason because the cake would not be just an empty shell.

Keep it up.

Love & regards.

Tejwant Singh