Sikhism And Feelings Of Bliss

[Harry Haller]

The bliss you gentlemen speak of, frankly dwarfs looking into a dogs eyes, and is the sort of bliss that I was referring to when this thread started.

However, as I see it, the problem with this bliss is, its addictive. 3 or 4 hours is not enough, do this, and you might get 6 or 7 hours, or even 24/7.

If consonance is a state of mind you get when you are in tune with the world and yourself, then this bliss must be a state of mind when you are in tune with the creator. But, we are supposed to be family people, this is not a competition to see who we can merge with that will give us the most bliss. Is it possible that the yearning for bliss is also attachment to bliss? Is the goal consonance, with periods of bliss, or do you chase the bliss dragon above everything else because the source is so pure?

I think we all have to make our own minds on that one, unless some wise soul can point me to what the official word is.

 

[prakash.s.bagga]

BHAGAT SINGH Ji,
Your observations and views are very much correct.So what should be the conclusion?.
We as Gur Sikh are required to know and assess the utility of all what has been mentioned in terms of views of GuRu.
That is why we should give a thought to knowing Gurmat RAM NAAMu only.According to Gurbani there is nothing equvelent to or beyond this RAM NAAMu.
The day anyone would get the understanding of this his search should be over I feel so..
Pl give a thought to a quote from SGGS as
"Ram Naamu Ur Main Gaeyo Jaa Ke Sum Nahi Koi
Jih Simrat Sankat Mite Daras Tuhaaro Hoi" pp1429

It is this Ram Naamu "The Ultimate Truth " of the universe.From within Gurbani we should all try to know this only.This is the only Single Important message of Gurbani.
Prakash.S.Bagga

 

[BhagatSingh]

Harry ji
You are very wise so I can say this to you:
One's bliss dwarfs another, yet neither sees that their bliss is that of the other.

Lol what do you know, I rhymed it. What could be more blissful that rhyming a string of words? Surely looking into a dog's eye cannot match such bliss.

I am no wise soul Harry ji but to my knowledge the official word, so far, is that there is no official word. If you don't hear it now, you will when you are ready. Hear it yet? Must listen more closely to the official word.
.
.
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Prakash ji, To be honest I was not giving views or observations, I felt like I was meditating (as with all my posts). Perhaps I can conclude that it cannot be concluded and if you forcefully do so, you'll run into people you have concluded differently. At this point, you will end up discussing conclusions in a forum, perhaps in threads like "Sikhism and the Feeling of Bliss". lol


Hmm... page 1429, I think all of it should be meditated upon. Each line resonates with the quote you have given. Here you go:
<table cellspacing="5"><tbody><tr><td>ਨਿਜ ਕਰਿ ਦੇਖਿਓ ਜਗਤੁ ਮੈ ਕੋ ਕਾਹੂ ਕੋ ਨਾਹਿ ॥
निज करि देखिओ जगतु मै को काहू को नाहि ॥
Nij kar ḏekẖi▫o jagaṯ mai ko kāhū ko nāhi.
I had looked upon the world as my own, but no one belongs to anyone else.

</td></tr> <tr><td> ਨਾਨਕ ਥਿਰੁ ਹਰਿ ਭਗਤਿ ਹੈ ਤਿਹ ਰਾਖੋ ਮਨ ਮਾਹਿ ॥੪੮॥
नानक थिरु हरि भगति है तिह राखो मन माहि ॥४८॥
Nānak thir har bẖagaṯ hai ṯih rākẖo man māhi. ||48||
O Nanak, only devotional worship of the Lord is permanent; enshrine this in your mind. ||48||

</td></tr> <tr><td> ਜਗ ਰਚਨਾ ਸਭ ਝੂਠ ਹੈ ਜਾਨਿ ਲੇਹੁ ਰੇ ਮੀਤ ॥
जग रचना सभ झूठ है जानि लेहु रे मीत ॥
Jag racẖnā sabẖ jẖūṯẖ hai jān leho re mīṯ.
The world and its affairs are totally false; know this well, my friend.

</td></tr> <tr><td> ਕਹਿ ਨਾਨਕ ਥਿਰੁ ਨਾ ਰਹੈ ਜਿਉ ਬਾਲੂ ਕੀ ਭੀਤਿ ॥੪੯॥
कहि नानक थिरु ना रहै जिउ बालू की भीति ॥४९॥
Kahi Nānak thir nā rahai ji▫o bālū kī bẖīṯ. ||49||
Says Nanak, it is like a wall of sand; it shall not endure. ||49||

</td></tr> <tr><td> ਰਾਮੁ ਗਇਓ ਰਾਵਨੁ ਗਇਓ ਜਾ ਕਉ ਬਹੁ ਪਰਵਾਰੁ ॥
रामु गइओ रावनु गइओ जा कउ बहु परवारु ॥
Rām ga▫i▫o rāvan ga▫i▫o jā ka▫o baho parvār.
Raam Chand passed away, as did Raawan, even though he had lots of relatives.

</td></tr> <tr><td> ਕਹੁ ਨਾਨਕ ਥਿਰੁ ਕਛੁ ਨਹੀ ਸੁਪਨੇ ਜਿਉ ਸੰਸਾਰੁ ॥੫੦॥
कहु नानक थिरु कछु नही सुपने जिउ संसारु ॥५०॥
Kaho Nānak thir kacẖẖ nahī supne ji▫o sansār. ||50||
Says Nanak, nothing lasts forever; the world is like a dream. ||50||

</td></tr> <tr><td> ਚਿੰਤਾ ਤਾ ਕੀ ਕੀਜੀਐ ਜੋ ਅਨਹੋਨੀ ਹੋਇ ॥
चिंता ता की कीजीऐ जो अनहोनी होइ ॥
Cẖinṯā ṯā kī kījī▫ai jo anhonī ho▫e.
People become anxious, when something unexpected happens.

</td></tr> <tr><td> ਇਹੁ ਮਾਰਗੁ ਸੰਸਾਰ ਕੋ ਨਾਨਕ ਥਿਰੁ ਨਹੀ ਕੋਇ ॥੫੧॥
इहु मारगु संसार को नानक थिरु नही कोइ ॥५१॥
Ih mārag sansār ko Nānak thir nahī ko▫e. ||51||
This is the way of the world, O Nanak; nothing is stable or permanent. ||51||

</td></tr> <tr><td> ਜੋ ਉਪਜਿਓ ਸੋ ਬਿਨਸਿ ਹੈ ਪਰੋ ਆਜੁ ਕੈ ਕਾਲਿ ॥
जो उपजिओ सो बिनसि है परो आजु कै कालि ॥
Jo upji▫o so binas hai paro āj kai kāl.
Whatever has been created shall be destroyed; everyone shall perish, today or tomorrow.

</td></tr> <tr><td> ਨਾਨਕ ਹਰਿ ਗੁਨ ਗਾਇ ਲੇ ਛਾਡਿ ਸਗਲ ਜੰਜਾਲ ॥੫੨॥
नानक हरि गुन गाइ ले छाडि सगल जंजाल ॥५२॥
Nānak har gun gā▫e le cẖẖād sagal janjāl. ||52||
O Nanak, sing the Glorious Praises of the Lord, and give up all other entanglements. ||52||

</td></tr> <tr><td> ਦੋਹਰਾ ॥
दोहरा ॥
Ḏohrā.
Dohraa:

</td></tr> <tr><td> ਬਲੁ ਛੁਟਕਿਓ ਬੰਧਨ ਪਰੇ ਕਛੂ ਨ ਹੋਤ ਉਪਾਇ ॥
बलु छुटकिओ बंधन परे कछू न होत उपाइ ॥
Bal cẖẖutki▫o banḏẖan pare kacẖẖū na hoṯ upā▫e.
My strength is exhausted, and I am in bondage; I cannot do anything at all.

</td></tr> <tr><td> ਕਹੁ ਨਾਨਕ ਅਬ ਓਟ ਹਰਿ ਗਜ ਜਿਉ ਹੋਹੁ ਸਹਾਇ ॥੫੩॥
कहु नानक अब ओट हरि गज जिउ होहु सहाइ ॥५३॥
Kaho Nānak ab ot har gaj ji▫o hohu sahā▫e. ||53||
Says Nanak, now, the Lord is my Support; He will help me, as He did the elephant. ||53||

</td></tr> <tr><td> ਬਲੁ ਹੋਆ ਬੰਧਨ ਛੁਟੇ ਸਭੁ ਕਿਛੁ ਹੋਤ ਉਪਾਇ ॥
बलु होआ बंधन छुटे सभु किछु होत उपाइ ॥
Bal ho▫ā banḏẖan cẖẖute sabẖ kicẖẖ hoṯ upā▫e.
My strength has been restored, and my bonds have been broken; now, I can do everything.

</td></tr> <tr><td> ਨਾਨਕ ਸਭੁ ਕਿਛੁ ਤੁਮਰੈ ਹਾਥ ਮੈ ਤੁਮ ਹੀ ਹੋਤ ਸਹਾਇ ॥੫੪॥
नानक सभु किछु तुमरै हाथ मै तुम ही होत सहाइ ॥५४॥
Nānak sabẖ kicẖẖ ṯumrai hāth mai ṯum hī hoṯ sahā▫e. ||54||
Nanak: everything is in Your hands, Lord; You are my Helper and Support. ||54||

</td></tr> <tr><td> ਸੰਗ ਸਖਾ ਸਭਿ ਤਜਿ ਗਏ ਕੋਊ ਨ ਨਿਬਹਿਓ ਸਾਥਿ ॥
संग सखा सभि तजि गए कोऊ न निबहिओ साथि ॥
Sang sakẖā sabẖ ṯaj ga▫e ko▫ū na nib▫hi▫o sāth.
My associates and companions have all deserted me; no one remains with me.

</td></tr> <tr><td> ਕਹੁ ਨਾਨਕ ਇਹ ਬਿਪਤਿ ਮੈ ਟੇਕ ਏਕ ਰਘੁਨਾਥ ॥੫੫॥
कहु नानक इह बिपति मै टेक एक रघुनाथ ॥५५॥
Kaho Nānak ih bipaṯ mai tek ek ragẖunāth. ||55||
Says Nanak, in this tragedy, the Lord alone is my Support. ||55||

</td></tr> <tr><td> ਨਾਮੁ ਰਹਿਓ ਸਾਧੂ ਰਹਿਓ ਰਹਿਓ ਗੁਰੁ ਗੋਬਿੰਦੁ ॥
नामु रहिओ साधू रहिओ रहिओ गुरु गोबिंदु ॥
Nām rahi▫o sāḏẖū rahi▫o rahi▫o gur gobinḏ.
The Naam remains; the Holy Saints remain; the Guru, the Lord of the Universe, remains.

</td></tr> <tr><td> ਕਹੁ ਨਾਨਕ ਇਹ ਜਗਤ ਮੈ ਕਿਨ ਜਪਿਓ ਗੁਰ ਮੰਤੁ ॥੫੬॥
कहु नानक इह जगत मै किन जपिओ गुर मंतु ॥५६॥
Kaho Nānak ih jagaṯ mai kin japi▫o gur manṯ. ||56||
Says Nanak, how rare are those who chant the Guru's Mantra in this world. ||56||

</td></tr> <tr><td> ਰਾਮ ਨਾਮੁ ਉਰ ਮੈ ਗਹਿਓ ਜਾ ਕੈ ਸਮ ਨਹੀ ਕੋਇ ॥
राम नामु उर मै गहिओ जा कै सम नही कोइ ॥
Rām nām ur mai gahi▫o jā kai sam nahī ko▫e.
I have enshrined the Lord's Name within my heart; there is nothing equal to it.

</td></tr> <tr><td> ਜਿਹ ਸਿਮਰਤ ਸੰਕਟ ਮਿਟੈ ਦਰਸੁ ਤੁਹਾਰੋ ਹੋਇ ॥੫੭॥੧॥
जिह सिमरत संकट मिटै दरसु तुहारो होइ ॥५७॥१॥
Jih simraṯ sankat mitai ḏaras ṯuhāro ho▫e. ||57||1||
Meditating in remembrance on it, my troubles are taken away; I have received the Blessed Vision of Your Darshan. ||57||1||

</td></tr> <tr><td> ਮੁੰਦਾਵਣੀ ਮਹਲਾ ੫ ॥
मुंदावणी महला ५ ॥
Munḏāvaṇī mėhlā 5.
Mundaavanee, Fifth Mehl:

</td></tr> <tr><td> ਥਾਲ ਵਿਚਿ ਤਿੰਨਿ ਵਸਤੂ ਪਈਓ ਸਤੁ ਸੰਤੋਖੁ ਵੀਚਾਰੋ ॥
थाल विचि तिंनि वसतू पईओ सतु संतोखु वीचारो ॥
Thāl vicẖ ṯinn vasṯū pa▫ī▫o saṯ sanṯokẖ vīcẖāro.
Upon this Plate, three things have been placed: Truth, Contentment and Contemplation.

</td></tr> <tr><td> ਅੰਮ੍ਰਿਤ ਨਾਮੁ ਠਾਕੁਰ ਕਾ ਪਇਓ ਜਿਸ ਕਾ ਸਭਸੁ ਅਧਾਰੋ ॥
अम्रित नामु ठाकुर का पइओ जिस का सभसु अधारो ॥
Amriṯ nām ṯẖākur kā pa▫i▫o jis kā sabẖas aḏẖāro.
The Ambrosial Nectar of the Naam, the Name of our Lord and Master, has been placed upon it as well; it is the Support of all.

</td></tr> <tr><td> ਜੇ ਕੋ ਖਾਵੈ ਜੇ ਕੋ ਭੁੰਚੈ ਤਿਸ ਕਾ ਹੋਇ ਉਧਾਰੋ ॥
जे को खावै जे को भुंचै तिस का होइ उधारो ॥
Je ko kẖāvai je ko bẖuncẖai ṯis kā ho▫e uḏẖāro.
One who eats it and enjoys it shall be saved.

</td></tr> <tr><td> ਏਹ ਵਸਤੁ ਤਜੀ ਨਹ ਜਾਈ ਨਿਤ ਨਿਤ ਰਖੁ ਉਰਿ ਧਾਰੋ ॥
एह वसतु तजी नह जाई नित नित रखु उरि धारो ॥
Ėh vasaṯ ṯajī nah jā▫ī niṯ niṯ rakẖ ur ḏẖāro.
This thing can never be forsaken; keep this always and forever in your mind.

</td></tr> <tr><td> ਤਮ ਸੰਸਾਰੁ ਚਰਨ ਲਗਿ ਤਰੀਐ ਸਭੁ ਨਾਨਕ ਬ੍ਰਹਮ ਪਸਾਰੋ ॥੧॥
तम संसारु चरन लगि तरीऐ सभु नानक ब्रहम पसारो ॥१॥
Ŧam sansār cẖaran lag ṯarī▫ai sabẖ Nānak barahm pasāro. ||1||
The dark world-ocean is crossed over, by grasping the Feet of the Lord; O Nanak, it is all the extension of God. ||1||

</td></tr> <tr><td> ਸਲੋਕ ਮਹਲਾ ੫ ॥
सलोक महला ५ ॥
Salok mėhlā 5.
Shalok, Fifth Mehl:

</td></tr> <tr><td> ਤੇਰਾ ਕੀਤਾ ਜਾਤੋ ਨਾਹੀ ਮੈਨੋ ਜੋਗੁ ਕੀਤੋਈ ॥
तेरा कीता जातो नाही मैनो जोगु कीतोई ॥
Ŧerā kīṯā jāṯo nāhī maino jog kīṯo▫ī.
I have not appreciated what You have done for me, Lord; only You can make me worthy.

</td></tr> <tr><td> ਮੈ ਨਿਰਗੁਣਿਆਰੇ ਕੋ ਗੁਣੁ ਨਾਹੀ ਆਪੇ ਤਰਸੁ ਪਇਓਈ ॥
मै निरगुणिआरे को गुणु नाही आपे तरसु पइओई ॥
Mai nirguṇi▫āre ko guṇ nāhī āpe ṯaras pa▫i▫o▫ī.
I am unworthy - I have no worth or virtues at all. You have taken pity on me.

</td></tr> <tr><td> ਤਰਸੁ ਪਇਆ ਮਿਹਰਾਮਤਿ ਹੋਈ ਸਤਿਗੁਰੁ ਸਜਣੁ ਮਿਲਿਆ ॥
तरसु पइआ मिहरामति होई सतिगुरु सजणु मिलिआ ॥
Ŧaras pa▫i▫ā mihrāmaṯ ho▫ī saṯgur sajaṇ mili▫ā.
You took pity on me, and blessed me with Your Mercy, and I have met the True Guru, my Friend.

</td></tr> <tr><td> ਨਾਨਕ ਨਾਮੁ ਮਿਲੈ ਤਾਂ ਜੀਵਾਂ ਤਨੁ ਮਨੁ ਥੀਵੈ ਹਰਿਆ ॥੧॥
नानक नामु मिलै तां जीवां तनु मनु थीवै हरिआ ॥१॥
Nānak nām milai ṯāʼn jīvāʼn ṯan man thīvai hari▫ā. ||1||
O Nanak, if I am blessed with the Naam, I live, and my body and mind blossom forth. ||1||

</td></tr> <tr><td> ੴ ਸਤਿਗੁਰ ਪ੍ਰਸਾਦਿ ॥
ੴ सतिगुर प्रसादि ॥
Ik▫oaʼnkār saṯgur parsāḏ
One Universal Creator God. By The Grace Of The True Guru:

</td></tr> <tr><td> ਰਾਗ ਮਾਲਾ ॥
राग माला ॥
Rāg mālā.
Raag Maalaa:

</td></tr> <tr><td> ਰਾਗ ਏਕ ਸੰਗਿ ਪੰਚ ਬਰੰਗਨ ॥
राग एक संगि पंच बरंगन ॥
Rāg ek sang pancẖ barangan.
Each Raga has five wives,

</td></tr> <tr><td> ਸੰਗਿ ਅਲਾਪਹਿ ਆਠਉ ਨੰਦਨ ॥
संगि अलापहि आठउ नंदन ॥
Sang alāpėh āṯẖ▫o nanḏan.
and eight sons, who emit distinctive notes.

</td></tr> <tr><td> ਪ੍ਰਥਮ ਰਾਗ ਭੈਰਉ ਵੈ ਕਰਹੀ ॥
प्रथम राग भैरउ वै करही ॥
Paratham rāg bẖairo vai karhī.
In the first place is Raag Bhairao.
</td></tr></tbody></table>

 

[Harry Haller]

Bhagatsinghji,

I do like your posts, and thank you for your compliment, but I remain a fool who finds it hard to meditate, hard to find any peace in the name of the almighty.

I have at the moment some problems that I am fighting, (although not nearly in the same league as some people) , and at the minute, I feel more like a warrior sikh, than a saint sikh. I fight with gods name on my lips, its funny actually, in years gone, I would have prayed for gods help, or prayed for god to do this, or that, but all I pray for at the minute, is to be in consonance with the truth. To be in tune with the truth, and to respect the truth. What will be, will be, the truth will always win, the idea for me is to be on the side of the truth when the dust settles.

One's bliss dwarfs another, yet neither sees that their bliss is that of the other.

What you are saying here, unless I am mistaken is that bliss is truth, yet some that experience it, are not enlightened enough to realise that, confusion reigns as to where the bliss has come from, or from what action produced it. Could it be that bliss that brings on attachment is not really bliss at all?

 

[prakash.s.bagga]

Bhagat Singh Ji,
Thank you very much I get to your point.
What I have emphasised is that there is an ultimate conclusion given by our GuRu in Gurbani in reference to all being mentioned.
I have made reference to this conclusion in Gurbani.
I agree we are required to meditate Gurbani sabad but Simran is of Ram Naamu only.
Prakash.S.Bagga

 

[Harry Haller]

Prakashji,

Forgive me for being curious, you sound like an incredibly wise person, what is your ultimate goal?, and what part does family life play in that goal, and can this goal assist you in your worldy responsibilities

 

[BhagatSingh]

Could it be that bliss that brings on attachment is not bliss?... (meditate)

Then what is it? If bliss is not bliss then what we think is God, is not God?

Is what we think, what we don't think?

Could it be that that which is, is not?

The answer to the questions cannot be stated but it is the Truth.

Notice the underlying ambiguity of the words. See how that sentence above could mean different things. One could see that as 1. the answer, 2. giving the answer, 3. pointing to the answer, or 4. no answer at all.

The answer is:
1. The answer to the questions cannot be stated but it is the Truth.
2. Truth
3. Meditate on the questions to find out the answer.
4. *blank look* What did you just say?

Anything anyone says could literally mean anything else. In an instance something means something, in an instance something means something else.

Note how this works in all fields. Some see one religion as the answer others may not see that same religion as the answer.

Why do we still hold on to language?

That's the only thing we have. Visual, verbal, bodily languages. Humans come to live through language.

Through language we are born and through language we die. Everything we do is language. Written or spoken word like "suis" is not language because the French word "suis" may not mean anything to the English speaker. Then that is not language because language is that which ALL humans do. and yet it is part of language.

We are back to your question.

Could it be that language is not language?
.
.
.
Is it not or is it a play of language?

Meditate on this Pauri of Jap Ji Sahib:
ਅਸੰਖ ਨਾਵ ਅਸੰਖ ਥਾਵ ॥
असंख नाव असंख थाव ॥
Asaʼnkẖ nāv asaʼnkẖ thāv.
Countless names, countless places.
ਅਗੰਮ ਅਗੰਮ ਅਸੰਖ ਲੋਅ ॥
अगम अगम असंख लोअ ॥
Agamm agamm asaʼnkẖ lo▫a.
Inaccessible, unapproachable, countless celestial realms.
ਅਸੰਖ ਕਹਹਿ ਸਿਰਿ ਭਾਰੁ ਹੋਇ ॥
असंख कहहि सिरि भारु होइ ॥
Asaʼnkẖ kėhahi sir bẖār ho▫e.
Even to call them countless is to carry the weight on your head.
ਅਖਰੀ ਨਾਮੁ ਅਖਰੀ ਸਾਲਾਹ ॥
अखरी नामु अखरी सालाह ॥
Akẖrī nām akẖrī sālāh.
From the Word, comes the Naam; from the Word, comes Your Praise.
ਅਖਰੀ ਗਿਆਨੁ ਗੀਤ ਗੁਣ ਗਾਹ ॥
अखरी गिआनु गीत गुण गाह ॥
Akẖrī gi▫ān gīṯ guṇ gāh.
From the Word, comes spiritual wisdom, singing the Songs of Your Glory.
ਅਖਰੀ ਲਿਖਣੁ ਬੋਲਣੁ ਬਾਣਿ ॥
अखरी लिखणु बोलणु बाणि ॥
Akẖrī likẖaṇ bolaṇ bāṇ.
From the Word, come the written and spoken words and hymns.
ਅਖਰਾ ਸਿਰਿ ਸੰਜੋਗੁ ਵਖਾਣਿ ॥
अखरा सिरि संजोगु वखाणि ॥
Akẖrā sir sanjog vakẖāṇ.
From the Word, comes destiny, written on one's forehead.
ਜਿਨਿ ਏਹਿ ਲਿਖੇ ਤਿਸੁ ਸਿਰਿ ਨਾਹਿ ॥
जिनि एहि लिखे तिसु सिरि नाहि ॥
Jin ehi likẖe ṯis sir nāhi.
But the One who wrote these Words of Destiny-no words are written on His Forehead.
ਜਿਵ ਫੁਰਮਾਏ ਤਿਵ ਤਿਵ ਪਾਹਿ ॥
जिव फुरमाए तिव तिव पाहि ॥
Jiv furmā▫e ṯiv ṯiv pāhi.
As He ordains, so do we receive.
ਜੇਤਾ ਕੀਤਾ ਤੇਤਾ ਨਾਉ ॥
जेता कीता तेता नाउ ॥
Jeṯā kīṯā ṯeṯā nā▫o.
The created universe is the manifestation of Your Name.
ਵਿਣੁ ਨਾਵੈ ਨਾਹੀ ਕੋ ਥਾਉ ॥
विणु नावै नाही को थाउ ॥
viṇ nāvai nāhī ko thā▫o.
Without Your Name, there is no place at all.
ਕੁਦਰਤਿ ਕਵਣ ਕਹਾ ਵੀਚਾਰੁ ॥
कुदरति कवण कहा वीचारु ॥
Kuḏraṯ kavaṇ kahā vīcẖār.
How can I describe Your Creative Power?
ਵਾਰਿਆ ਨ ਜਾਵਾ ਏਕ ਵਾਰ ॥
वारिआ न जावा एक वार ॥
vāri▫ā na jāvā ek vār.
I cannot even once be a sacrifice to You.
ਜੋ ਤੁਧੁ ਭਾਵੈ ਸਾਈ ਭਲੀ ਕਾਰ ॥
जो तुधु भावै साई भली कार ॥
Jo ṯuḏẖ bẖāvai sā▫ī bẖalī kār.
Whatever pleases You is the only good done,
ਤੂ ਸਦਾ ਸਲਾਮਤਿ ਨਿਰੰਕਾਰ ॥੧੯॥
तू सदा सलामति निरंकार ॥१९॥
Ŧū saḏā salāmaṯ nirankār. ||19||
You, Eternal and Formless One. ||19||


I do no intend to give my meaning to that pauri, although I believe it is talking about what I am talking about. Guru Nanak may well be talking of something else but notice the play of language.

 

[BhagatSingh]

continued..
I think that Bhagat Namdev ji when he saw this play of language/ play of words as the Truth then comments:

ਟੋਡੀ ਬਾਣੀ ਭਗਤਾਂ ਕੀ
टोडी बाणी भगतां की
Todī baṇī bẖagṯāʼn kī
Todee, The Word Of The Devotees:
ੴ ਸਤਿਗੁਰ ਪ੍ਰਸਾਦਿ ॥
ੴ सतिगुर प्रसादि ॥
Ik▫oaʼnkār saṯgur parsāḏ.
One Universal Creator God. By The Grace Of The True Guru:
ਕੋਈ ਬੋਲੈ ਨਿਰਵਾ ਕੋਈ ਬੋਲੈ ਦੂਰਿ ॥
कोई बोलै निरवा कोई बोलै दूरि ॥
Ko▫ī bolai nirvā ko▫ī bolai ḏūr.
Some say that He is near, and others say that He is far away.
ਜਲ ਕੀ ਮਾਛੁਲੀ ਚਰੈ ਖਜੂਰਿ ॥੧॥
जल की माछुली चरै खजूरि ॥१॥
Jal kī mācẖẖulī cẖarai kẖajūr. ||1||
We might just as well say that the fish climbs out of the water, up the tree. ||1||
ਕਾਂਇ ਰੇ ਬਕਬਾਦੁ ਲਾਇਓ ॥
कांइ रे बकबादु लाइओ ॥
Kāʼn▫e re bakbāḏ lā▫i▫o.
Why do you speak such nonsense?
ਜਿਨਿ ਹਰਿ ਪਾਇਓ ਤਿਨਹਿ ਛਪਾਇਓ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥
जिनि हरि पाइओ तिनहि छपाइओ ॥१॥ रहाउ ॥
Jin har pā▫i▫o ṯinėh cẖẖapā▫i▫o. ||1|| rahā▫o.
One who has found the Lord, keeps quiet about it. ||1||Pause||
ਪੰਡਿਤੁ ਹੋਇ ਕੈ ਬੇਦੁ ਬਖਾਨੈ ॥
पंडितु होइ कै बेदु बखानै ॥
Pandiṯ ho▫e kai beḏ bakẖānai.
Those who become Pandits, religious scholars, recite the Vedas,
ਮੂਰਖੁ ਨਾਮਦੇਉ ਰਾਮਹਿ ਜਾਨੈ ॥੨॥੧॥
मूरखु नामदेउ रामहि जानै ॥२॥१॥
Mūrakẖ nāmḏe▫o rāmėh jānai. ||2||1||
but foolish Naam Dayv knows only the Lord. ||2||1||

page 718


Note that Bhagat Namdev ji even though he knows the Lord is still talking even when he says that those who know keep quiet. what the?

He is pointing to the unnameable or is he?

PS just some meditation on your questions Harry ji.

 

[prakash.s.bagga]

HARRY HALLER Ji,
Your questions have put me in dilemma to answer.You will appreciate the fact there are certain questions which can not answered unless we become face to face.
However in short I may tell you every thing in any ones life has to be thru the grace of SATi GuRu only.Once one gets introduced to his SATi GuRu then the whole life is automatically gets guided by SATi GuRu and all goals become meaning less and wordly affairs appear nothing and these afffairs go in an unnoticed manner.
Being Qualified Metallurgist managing a small family business along with my family members I fully enjoy the moments with my grand children.We are a joint family staying with our GuRu SGGS at home.All wordly affairs are carried with due permission from GuRu.Ji.
I am running 60 and I also had lot of fluctuations and a good lenth of struggling period.You can understand it is not that easy life in India as abroad.But with the company of SAti GuRu nothing is impossible.
I think I have said enough to make you boring.
Prakash.s.Bagga

 

[Harry Haller]

I think keeping quiet about finding the lord is absolutely right! Most people would want to share their good fortune with friends and family, only, I believe each's path to the bliss of Waheguru is different and individual, almost like pointing to a huge stash of gold that has been hidden away, and trying to point people in the direction if it, but the tunnel is only big enough to fit a person of exact size, YOU.

The best you can hope for is that people will think you are some sort of Baba, and you want money for your thoughts, and maybe ego turns you into one. Or worse, they will think you are a liar and beat you!

Sometimes there is wisdom in silence...

As for words, maybe words cannot describe what needs to be done in an adequate fashion. You play tricks with my brain Bhagatsinghji, you lead it into a vision of beautiful words, then you take them away by belittling the value of words per se. But yes, I can see the path that you have outlined, all words are ambiguous, the only way to see the correct path is to be guided by the words, but let your heart do the talking, through meditation, accepting the words at face value, and attempting to understand them, the way they were meant to be understood is impossible , without the 3rd eye looking on.

 

[prakash.s.bagga]

BHAGAT SINGH Ji,
During the times of Bhagat Nam dev and others this was a common concept to keep quite about having known the Creator and its Grace.
But our Gurus made that clear which used to thought secret by many.
You may pl find a Sabad at pp697 in SGGs as
Jin HaRi Hirdae Naamu Na Baseo Tin Maat Keeje Hari Banjhaa Jaitsari M 4
There is ia message in this Sabad as
Hau Balhaari SatiGuR Apane Jini Gupatu Naamu Pargaajhaa.

So this is a great revealation by our GuRu .What was considered as secret has been revealed by SATi GuR in Gurbani.
So letus recognise exactly this SATiGuR from within Gurbani.
Prakash.S.Bagga

 

[Harry Haller]

HARRY HALLER Ji,
Your questions have put me in dilemma to answer.You will appreciate the fact there are certain questions which can not answered unless we become face to face.
However in short I may tell you every thing in any ones life has to be thru the grace of SATi GuRu only.Once one gets introduced to his SATi GuRu then the whole life is automatically gets guided by SATi GuRu and all goals become meaning less and wordly affairs appear nothing and these afffairs go in an unnoticed manner.
Being Qualified Metallurgist managing a small family business along with my family members I fully enjoy the moments with my grand children.We are a joint family staying with our GuRu Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji at home.All wordly affairs are carried with due permission from GuRu.Ji.
I am running 60 and I also had lot of fluctuations and a good lenth of struggling period.You can understand it is not that easy life in India as abroad.But with the company of SAti GuRu nothing is impossible.
I think I have said enough to make you boring.
Prakash.s.Bagga

Prakashiji,

I do not think you are boring at all, I think you have either managed to find what the rest of us are looking for, and rather than risk a full on debate as to whether you are correct or not, you are dripping in information on various debates as to how you have achieved this, or you have no idea and are just playing games with us. I happen to believe the former,.

Your phonetics, which I have just managed to get used to, now have a new arrival, SAti!

The problem is, I believe that every man must find his own way, and his own interpretation, through his own heart, in order to find, dare i say it, his own bliss blessed by the creator, and to understand this gift enough not to have attachment towards it. Do you think there is a risk by putting your faith in a third party guide, that you have taken a short cut that could possibly have diluted the effect?

Excuse my ignorance, I am just trying to figure out what it is you are standing for,

 

[BhagatSingh]

Harry ji, that makes sense.

but the tunnel is only big enough to fit a person of exact size, YOU.

This is why some traditions tell you to focus on yourself. They say "Find out who you really are"

I stumbled upon Mooji and Papaji of this tradition a few days ago. I learned that they came to know this tradition from Ramana Maharshi.

Prakash Singh ji and others talked about the Sikh tradition and continue doing on other threads.

There is a point when one sees that all traditions are the same. Then one finds it funny/depressing/blissful<insert a="" particular="" emotione.g.="" funny,="" depressing=""> how such multiplicity can arise, how all these various forms arise out of essentially nothingness.

You know world is always changing, yes? If the world is changing, and it is always doing so then that implies it is not changing.

You see it?

Always changing? 'always' is something that does not change. It is always as it is. Yet it is changing. haha

More fun with language. 0

This is named 'God's play' or 'Leela' (in the Hindu tradition). it can be seen whenever we go deeper into something. Whether it is language we go deeper into like Philosophers do (explicitly done by Heidegger), or going deeper into sounds in simran as the Sikh tradition or deeper into the worship or idols as done in some Hindu traditions.

Going deep into it, it's essence is known.

Bliss can then be said as the act of going deeper. As I go deep here with my words, I feel bliss, a sort of peace.</insert>

 

[BhagatSingh]

Prakash ji,
I can see why they would be quiet about it. You know others would be seen as madmen if they talked about it. Yet another group would be seen as Gurus, Sages. The world can be funny like that.

pg 697
<table cellspacing="5"><tbody><tr><td>जैतसरी महला ४ ॥
Jaiṯsarī mėhlā 4.
Jaitsree, Fourth Mehl:

</td></tr> <tr><td> ਜਿਨ ਹਰਿ ਹਿਰਦੈ ਨਾਮੁ ਨ ਬਸਿਓ ਤਿਨ ਮਾਤ ਕੀਜੈ ਹਰਿ ਬਾਂਝਾ ॥
जिन हरि हिरदै नामु न बसिओ तिन मात कीजै हरि बांझा ॥
Jin har hirḏai nām na basi▫o ṯin māṯ kījai har bāʼnjẖā.
The Lord's Name does not abide within their hearts - their mothers should have been sterile.

</td></tr> <tr><td> ਤਿਨ ਸੁੰਞੀ ਦੇਹ ਫਿਰਹਿ ਬਿਨੁ ਨਾਵੈ ਓਇ ਖਪਿ ਖਪਿ ਮੁਏ ਕਰਾਂਝਾ ॥੧॥
तिन सुंञी देह फिरहि बिनु नावै ओइ खपि खपि मुए करांझा ॥१॥
Ŧin suñī ḏeh firėh bin nāvai o▫e kẖap kẖap mu▫e karāʼnjẖā. ||1||
These bodies wander around, forlorn and abandoned, without the Name; their lives waste away, and they die, crying out in pain. ||1||

</td></tr> <tr><td> ਮੇਰੇ ਮਨ ਜਪਿ ਰਾਮ ਨਾਮੁ ਹਰਿ ਮਾਝਾ ॥
मेरे मन जपि राम नामु हरि माझा ॥
Mere man jap rām nām har mājẖā.
O my mind, chant the Name of the Lord, the Lord within you.

</td></tr> <tr><td> ਹਰਿ ਹਰਿ ਕ੍ਰਿਪਾਲਿ ਕ੍ਰਿਪਾ ਪ੍ਰਭਿ ਧਾਰੀ ਗੁਰਿ ਗਿਆਨੁ ਦੀਓ ਮਨੁ ਸਮਝਾ ॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥
हरि हरि क्रिपालि क्रिपा प्रभि धारी गुरि गिआनु दीओ मनु समझा ॥ रहाउ ॥
Har har kirpāl kirpā parabẖ ḏẖārī gur gi▫ān ḏī▫o man samjẖā. Rahā▫o.
The Merciful Lord God, Har, Har, has showered me with His Mercy; the Guru has imparted spiritual wisdom to me, and my mind has been instructed. ||Pause||

</td></tr> <tr><td> ਹਰਿ ਕੀਰਤਿ ਕਲਜੁਗਿ ਪਦੁ ਊਤਮੁ ਹਰਿ ਪਾਈਐ ਸਤਿਗੁਰ ਮਾਝਾ ॥
हरि कीरति कलजुगि पदु ऊतमु हरि पाईऐ सतिगुर माझा ॥
Har kīraṯ kaljug paḏ ūṯam har pā▫ī▫ai saṯgur mājẖā.
In this Dark Age of Kali Yuga, the Kirtan of the Lord's Praise brings the most noble and exalted status; the Lord is found through the True Guru.

</td></tr> <tr><td> ਹਉ ਬਲਿਹਾਰੀ ਸਤਿਗੁਰ ਅਪੁਨੇ ਜਿਨਿ ਗੁਪਤੁ ਨਾਮੁ ਪਰਗਾਝਾ ॥੨॥
हउ बलिहारी सतिगुर अपुने जिनि गुपतु नामु परगाझा ॥२॥
Ha▫o balihārī saṯgur apune jin gupaṯ nām pargājẖā. ||2||
I am a sacrifice to my True Guru, who has revealed the Lord's hidden Name to me. ||2||

</td></tr> <tr><td> ਦਰਸਨੁ ਸਾਧ ਮਿਲਿਓ ਵਡਭਾਗੀ ਸਭਿ ਕਿਲਬਿਖ ਗਏ ਗਵਾਝਾ ॥
दरसनु साध मिलिओ वडभागी सभि किलबिख गए गवाझा ॥
Ḏarsan sāḏẖ mili▫o vadbẖāgī sabẖ kilbikẖ ga▫e gavājẖā.
By great good fortune, I obtained the Blessed Vision of the Darshan of the Holy; it removes all stains of sin.

</td></tr> <tr><td> ਸਤਿਗੁਰੁ ਸਾਹੁ ਪਾਇਆ ਵਡ ਦਾਣਾ ਹਰਿ ਕੀਏ ਬਹੁ ਗੁਣ ਸਾਝਾ ॥੩॥
सतिगुरु साहु पाइआ वड दाणा हरि कीए बहु गुण साझा ॥३॥
Saṯgur sāhu pā▫i▫ā vad ḏāṇā har kī▫e baho guṇ sājẖā. ||3||
I have found the True Guru, the great, all-knowing King; He has shared with me the many Glorious Virtues of the Lord. ||3|| </td></tr></tbody></table>ਜਿਨ ਕਉ ਕ੍ਰਿਪਾ ਕਰੀ ਜਗਜੀਵਨਿ ਹਰਿ ਉਰਿ ਧਾਰਿਓ ਮਨ ਮਾਝਾ ॥
जिन कउ क्रिपा करी जगजीवनि हरि उरि धारिओ मन माझा ॥
Jin ka▫o kirpā karī jagjīvan har ur ḏẖāri▫o man mājẖā.
Those, unto whom the Lord, the Life of the world, has shown Mercy, enshrine Him within their hearts, and cherish Him in their minds.

ਧਰਮ ਰਾਇ ਦਰਿ ਕਾਗਦ ਫਾਰੇ ਜਨ ਨਾਨਕ ਲੇਖਾ ਸਮਝਾ ॥੪॥੫॥
धरम राइ दरि कागद फारे जन नानक लेखा समझा ॥४॥५॥
Ḏẖaram rā▫e ḏar kāgaḏ fāre jan Nānak lekẖā samjẖā. ||4||5||
The Righteous Judge of Dharma, in the Court of the Lord, has torn up my papers; servant Nanak's account has been settled. ||4||5||

 

[prakash.s.bagga]

HARRY HALLAR Ji,
I thank you very much for your nice response to my personal views.
My feed back on some of your question is as

1....I fully understand what I am going to present.My understanding is fully based on Gramatical understanding of Gurbani words.I do understand the limitations of such understanding.My aim is just to bring in the notice of learned Sangat just to analyse this aspect of Gurbani too and see how we can make a better understanding of Gurbani.

2....I differ to believethat every one must find his own way and his own interpretation in order to find his own bliss.Dear Harry ji this is not applicable in the case of Gurbani understanding.
Here we are required to understand what GuRu is telling us to do or follow.Bliss is the result of grace of GuRu only So our affection ,Love and devotion to the Bani of GuR will create the favourable conditions for the grace of GuRu to make anyone blissful.

3....There is definitely a great risk by putting your faith in a third party. Basically anyone is required to have direct relationship with the CREATOR{GuR JOTi} thru its Naamu.There is very little space for any third party Guide.
Initially you may feel so and take the guidance from someone who is able to give the guidance from within Gurbani. Lateron when you become good enough to understand the language of GuRu of your own then there is hardly any need for any third party Guide.Otherwise How will you be able to concede :Tohee Mohee Antar Kaisaa....
My personal feeling is that always consider and make SGGS as your only true Guide and it is true too

Prakash.S.Bagga.

 

[BhagatSingh]

Hmm...

One wise man says "You must find your own path"
The other wise man says "Surrender to the Guru's path"

Go deeper into this.

One says: Find your own path. Who is this "you" that is going to find a path?
The other says: Follow Guru's Path. Who is this "Guru" who's path we are to follow?

How do we understand this wisdom? How do we put the two together?

:sippingcoffeemunda:

 

[prakash.s.bagga]

BHAGAT SINGH Ji,
Very interesting hidden question in your message,
You are "A WAVE".
GuRu is an Ocean of SIMILAR WAVES.
So there is only ONE WAY .

Prakash.S.Bagga

 

[prakash.s.bagga]

BHAGAT SINGH Ji,
There is a sabad at pp1321 in SGGS as

'Prabh Keejae Kirpaa Nidhaan Hum Hari Gun Gaaveng ae,
Hau Tumari Karau Nit Aas prabh Mohi Kab Gul Laweng ae" Raagu Kaliyan M 4

Prakash S Bagga

 

[BhagatSingh]

<table cellspacing="5"><tbody><tr><td>ਕਲਿਆਨ ਮਹਲਾ ੪ ॥
कलिआन महला ४ ॥
Kali▫ān mėhlā 4.
Kalyaan, Fourth Mehl:

</td></tr> <tr><td> ਪ੍ਰਭ ਕੀਜੈ ਕ੍ਰਿਪਾ ਨਿਧਾਨ ਹਮ ਹਰਿ ਗੁਨ ਗਾਵਹਗੇ ॥
प्रभ कीजै क्रिपा निधान हम हरि गुन गावहगे ॥
Parabẖ kījai kirpā niḏẖān ham har gun gāvhage.
O God, Treasure of Mercy, please bless me, that I may sing the Glorious Praises of the Lord.

</td></tr> <tr><td> ਹਉ ਤੁਮਰੀ ਕਰਉ ਨਿਤ ਆਸ ਪ੍ਰਭ ਮੋਹਿ ਕਬ ਗਲਿ ਲਾਵਹਿਗੇ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥
हउ तुमरी करउ नित आस प्रभ मोहि कब गलि लावहिगे ॥१॥ रहाउ ॥
Ha▫o ṯumrī kara▫o niṯ ās parabẖ mohi kab gal lāvhige. ||1|| rahā▫o.
I always place my hopes in You; O God, when will you take me in Your Embrace? ||1||Pause||

</td></tr> <tr><td> ਹਮ ਬਾਰਿਕ ਮੁਗਧ ਇਆਨ ਪਿਤਾ ਸਮਝਾਵਹਿਗੇ ॥
हम बारिक मुगध इआन पिता समझावहिगे ॥
Ham bārik mugaḏẖ i▫ān piṯā samjāvhige.
I am a foolish and ignorant child; Father, please teach me!

</td></tr> <tr><td> ਸੁਤੁ ਖਿਨੁ ਖਿਨੁ ਭੂਲਿ ਬਿਗਾਰਿ ਜਗਤ ਪਿਤ ਭਾਵਹਿਗੇ ॥੧॥
सुतु खिनु खिनु भूलि बिगारि जगत पित भावहिगे ॥१॥
Suṯ kẖin kẖin bẖūl bigār jagaṯ piṯ bẖāvhige. ||1||
Your child makes mistakes again and again, but still, You are pleased with him, O Father of the Universe. ||1||

</td></tr> <tr><td> ਜੋ ਹਰਿ ਸੁਆਮੀ ਤੁਮ ਦੇਹੁ ਸੋਈ ਹਮ ਪਾਵਹਗੇ ॥
जो हरि सुआमी तुम देहु सोई हम पावहगे ॥
Jo har su▫āmī ṯum ḏeh so▫ī ham pāvhage.
Whatever You give me, O my Lord and Master - that is what I receive.

</td></tr> <tr><td> ਮੋਹਿ ਦੂਜੀ ਨਾਹੀ ਠਉਰ ਜਿਸੁ ਪਹਿ ਹਮ ਜਾਵਹਗੇ ॥੨॥
मोहि दूजी नाही ठउर जिसु पहि हम जावहगे ॥२॥
Mohi ḏūjī nāhī ṯẖa▫ur jis pėh ham jāvhage. ||2||
There is no other place where I can go. ||2||

</td></tr> <tr><td> ਜੋ ਹਰਿ ਭਾਵਹਿ ਭਗਤ ਤਿਨਾ ਹਰਿ ਭਾਵਹਿਗੇ ॥
जो हरि भावहि भगत तिना हरि भावहिगे ॥
Jo har bẖāvėh bẖagaṯ ṯinā har bẖāvhige.
Those devotees who are pleasing to the Lord - the Lord is pleasing to them.

</td></tr> <tr><td> ਜੋਤੀ ਜੋਤਿ ਮਿਲਾਇ ਜੋਤਿ ਰਲਿ ਜਾਵਹਗੇ ॥੩॥
जोती जोति मिलाइ जोति रलि जावहगे ॥३॥
Joṯī joṯ milā▫e joṯ ral jāvhage. ||3||
Their light merges into the Light; the lights are merged and blended together. ||3||

</td></tr> <tr><td> ਹਰਿ ਆਪੇ ਹੋਇ ਕ੍ਰਿਪਾਲੁ ਆਪਿ ਲਿਵ ਲਾਵਹਿਗੇ ॥
हरि आपे होइ क्रिपालु आपि लिव लावहिगे ॥
Har āpe ho▫e kirpāl āp liv lāvhige.
The Lord Himself has shown mercy; He lovingly attunes me to Himself.

</td></tr> <tr><td> ਜਨੁ ਨਾਨਕੁ ਸਰਨਿ ਦੁਆਰਿ ਹਰਿ ਲਾਜ ਰਖਾਵਹਿਗੇ ॥੪॥੬॥ ਛਕਾ ੧ ॥
जनु नानकु सरनि दुआरि हरि लाज रखावहिगे ॥४॥६॥ छका १ ॥
Jan Nānak saran ḏu▫ār har lāj rakẖāvhige. ||4||6|| Cẖẖakā 1.
Servant Nanak seeks the Sanctuary of the Door of the Lord, who protects his honor. ||4||6|| One Chhakaa||

Hmm... what is it trying us lead to?
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[prakash.s.bagga]

BHAGAT SINGH Ji,
This Sabad seems to leading us to a Path to Hari only

Prakash.S.Bagga