Simran Experiences - "As The Inner Vision Is Awakened, One Comes To Know One's Own Home, Deep Within

[Harry Haller]

Harry ji, In a previous post you wrote
"1pm An extremely attractive woman comes in selling a laptop, I note she is wearing a low cut top, I spend the entire conversation looking directly at her eyes and behaving like a professional, of course there is a part of me like all men that wishes to have a quick peek, but again, a big red light is flashing in my head with 'wrong' written all over it"

Now, I commend you from stopping yourself from looking down her top, realising it was wrong BUT the THOUGHT still came into your head. Ask youself, why did this thought come into your mind in the first place? where did it originate from? you dont want to be "like all men" and "wish to peek", you are on this site i'm hoping because you want to attain the truth and become your true self? am i right?

Having a thought of Desire (as you did), but then deciding not to act it out, is cleansing on the 'surface' - like removing a fly from a cup of milk, when the real dirt exists 'hidden' at the bottom of the cup.

Now you constantly refer to yourself as a filthy sinner with filthy thoughts, well, I too have lived, and lived hard, and the only filthy thoughts I have, are directed at my wife, so I have to say that your simran regime obviously is not working if you keep getting these thoughts, and clearly does not qualify you to suggest to others that it is a guaranteed method of eradicating lust. In your posts, I also detect a fear, that if simran is not done, the thoughts will come back, or you will not have the mental strength to deal with your problems, I am not sure this is quite the spirit of simran per se, where you can switch it off and on. My definition of simran is to be connected and in a state of Naam. Where every action and thought is in line with Sikhi, through understanding and logic.

Not having the desire filled THOUGHT in the FIRST PLACE is TRUE cleansing within yourself. And SIMRAN is the method prescribed in gurbani for doing this.

Chazji,

We are never going to agree, so it is important we both understand this, otherwise we are going to get bogged down in attempts to convert the other. I admire your love and devotion, I have always said that, I do try and write my posts so it is clear they are my thoughts only, rather than the universal truth, but different things work for different people.

I am a man, the minute I stop acting like a man, I am either dead, or I have attained complete understanding and enlightenment. Now I have to be honest with you, I am a realist, I have to this date, never met a man who had attained understanding to the point that he would not have been aware of a draw on one of his thieves, in fact, I am not sure I wish to be without this draw, its what makes me human, and not superhuman. I am happy and content with the fact that I can be discerning enough to know how to treat the opposite sex, even though I still have age old animal instincts. I understand these instincts, sometimes they are for good, sometimes for bad, it is a case of knowing which is good, and to embrace, and which is bad, and ignore, this is nothing to do with cleansing, more to live in peace, understanding and consonance.

Priority is not the question, its the purity of heart in which the Seva is carried out. Give what you can, help in any way you can with a pure heart. otherwise the Seva is pointless and just feeding one or more of the 5 thieves within you.

If priority is not the question, and you come across two situations at the same time, one a woman being raped, and the other a man with a flat tyre, then you would not use logic and discretion to evaluate which deserved your help the most? I would rather help the woman being raped with an impure heart (impure heart meaning my motives may be for the self, that I am doing something good) than change the tyre with a pure one.............

The DEPTH'NESS of Simran cannot be described to someone who has never tried it

Au contraire, I have tried it, and found it put me in the same state as drugs do. I prefer to be aware and alert, not doped up on meditation.

baahar ka(n)chan baarehaa bheethar bharee bha(n)gaar ||145||
On the outside, he may look like pure gold, but on the inside, he is stuffed with dust. ||145||


It's your thoughts on the inside which gurbani is describing as the dust here.
On the outside you seem professional and give the client a good deal, on the inside you have the thoughts of looking down the clients top.
please contemplate this jewel of gurbani.

Neither I, nor my shop look professional, the shop is full of computers in various states of assembly, I am wearing my normal attire of a dirty t shirt, old shorts, one pink sock, one red sock, and the local kids pop by every morning to play guess the food stain on my t shirt, professional I am not..., I do not think I will ever not have these thoughts, but I understand these thoughts, and I do not act on them. They do not even bother me, if anything, I am pleased that I have educated myself through Bani as to how I should deal with them, I am in control, not the thoughts, thoughts come and go, that is how brains work, your method of cleansing, I warrant, will destroy a lot more than your thoughts

The soul doesn't need LOGIC, its acts on truth, and complete purity (its made of the same thing as God). Until our mind is in complete control of your 5 thieves all logic by the brain will be in one way or the other influenced by the 5 thieves.

This is just rhetoric, what is a soul? how can I possibly relate to this when I have no idea what a soul is? you are also contradicting yourself, are you cleansing yourself of the thieves, or controlling them?

AMimRq nwmu irdY hir jwpY ]1]
a(n)mrith naam ridhai har jaapai ||1||
They meditate on the Ambrosial Name of the Lord within their hearts. ||1||

pwrbRhmu prmysuru iDAweIAY ]
paarabreham paramaesur dhhiaaeeai ||
Meditate on the Supreme Lord God, the Transcendent Lord.

gur pUry qy ieh miq pweIAY ]1] rhwau ]
gur poorae thae eih math paaeeai ||1|| rehaao ||
From the Perfect Guru, this understanding is obtained. ||1||Pause||

ismir mnw pUry gur mMqw ]2]
simar manaa poorae gur ma(n)thaa ||2||
Meditate on Him, O my mind, through the Teachings of the Perfect Guru. ||2||

I have always said english translations are pretty terrible regarding extracting the beauty and logic from Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji. If you replace meditate with contemplate, then you have my interpretation.,

Always a pleasure debating with you, I hope you do not find me mundahug brusque, and if so, I apologise

 

[chazSingh]

Chazji,

We are never going to agree, so it is important we both understand this, otherwise we are going to get bogged down in attempts to convert the other. I admire your love and devotion, I have always said that, I do try and write my posts so it is clear they are my thoughts only, rather than the universal truth, but different things work for different people.

I am a man, the minute I stop acting like a man, I am either dead, or I have attained complete understanding and enlightenment. Now I have to be honest with you, I am a realist, I have to this date, never met a man who had attained understanding to the point that he would not have been aware of a draw on one of his thieves, in fact, I am not sure I wish to be without this draw, its what makes me human, and not superhuman. I am happy and content with the fact that I can be discerning enough to know how to treat the opposite sex, even though I still have age old animal instincts. I understand these instincts, sometimes they are for good, sometimes for bad, it is a case of knowing which is good, and to embrace, and which is bad, and ignore, this is nothing to do with cleansing, more to live in peace, understanding and consonance.



If priority is not the question, and you come across two situations at the same time, one a woman being raped, and the other a man with a flat tyre, then you would not use logic and discretion to evaluate which deserved your help the most? I would rather help the woman being raped with an impure heart (impure heart meaning my motives may be for the self, that I am doing something good) than change the tyre with a pure one.............



Au contraire, I have tried it, and found it put me in the same state as drugs do. I prefer to be aware and alert, not doped up on meditation.




Neither I, nor my shop look professional, the shop is full of computers in various states of assembly, I am wearing my normal attire of a dirty t shirt, old shorts, one pink sock, one red sock, and the local kids pop by every morning to play guess the food stain on my t shirt, professional I am not..., I do not think I will ever not have these thoughts, but I understand these thoughts, and I do not act on them. They do not even bother me, if anything, I am pleased that I have educated myself through Bani as to how I should deal with them, I am in control, not the thoughts, thoughts come and go, that is how brains work, your method of cleansing, I warrant, will destroy a lot more than your thoughts



This is just rhetoric, what is a soul? how can I possibly relate to this when I have no idea what a soul is? you are also contradicting yourself, are you cleansing yourself of the thieves, or controlling them?




I have always said english translations are pretty terrible regarding extracting the beauty and logic from Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji. If you replace meditate with contemplate, then you have my interpretation.,

Always a pleasure debating with you, I hope you do not find me mundahug brusque, and if so, I apologise

Yes harry Ji, we are just debating, there should be some joy in this, for i am learning from you also

when i throw questions in the air i'm not stating that i know the answer or that i am enlightened, its to get us contemplating about these things.
Sometimes it appears that i am asking you questions...but i'm alsi asking myself.

you stated

what is a soul? how can I possibly relate to this when I have no idea what a soul is? you are also contradicting yourself, are you cleansing yourself of the thieves, or controlling them?

kalijug mehi dhharrae pa(n)ch chor jhagarraaeae ||
In this Dark Age of Kali Yuga, the five thieves instigate alliances and conflicts. 366
pa(n)ch dhooth moodd par t(h)aadtae kaes gehae faeraavath hae ||
The five thieves stand over your head and seize you. Grabbing you by your hair, they will drive you on 821

From the above Guru Ji is telling us that we have becomes slaves to the 5 thieves, that our actions are not true, we're being tormented by them, they drive us to cause alliances in family, cities, countries, war, fights, hatred, ego. you name it, they're pulling the strings.


pa(n)ch dhaas gur vasagath keenae man nihachal nirabhaeiaa ||
Subduing the five thieves, he Guru has made them my slaves; my mind has become stable and steady and fearless. 1213

By the above quote, Guru is telling us that we can overcome them, they still exists, but instead of them having Us enslaved, they become our slaves....i do not know how that will feel because i'm not in that state yet, but i'm guessing it will be a blissful state not being tormented by them constantly.
And just like guru Ji has described my mind will become "my mind has become stable and steady and fearless" i would rather my mind be like this, than fearful of the future, doubts over relationships, anger towards another, fear over money matters, desire for a million things that cause you to act in a bad way.

The soul is our true self, sometimes we think "lets give a helping hand to someone in need" thats our soul talking. then all of a sudden in our mind creeps the thought "but what will my wife/husband say" "i may need the money myself next month" "what has this other person done for me?" "Leave it this time, do it next time" "people will think i'm silly doing this"
They come whizzing into the brain to torment us.

This is the 5 doots stopping you from doing what your Soul (you want to do)


god bless everyone.

 

[Harry Haller]

Yes harry Ji, we are just debating, there should be some joy in this, for i am learning from you also

I am enjoying the debate myself too, and there is much joy in it, I have had to postpone my daily guess the stains competition as it is making my brain work, for that I salute you.

The thieves are also capable of much good, that is why I feel we must control them, I have spent time devoid of all thieves, not in control, but devoid, and it was not much fun, I became a vegetable, a cabbage...

By the above quote, Guru is telling us that we can overcome them, they still exists, but instead of them having Us enslaved, they become our slaves..

Now we are getting closer to each other, I absolutely agree with you here, if you wish, google platos chariot, it talks of similar

The soul is our true self, sometimes we think "lets give a helping hand to someone in need" thats our soul talking. then all of a sudden in our mind creeps the thought "but what will my wife/husband say" "i may need the money myself next month" "what has this other person done for me?" "Leave it this time, do it next time" "people will think i'm silly doing this"
They come whizzing into the brain to torment us.

This is the 5 doots stopping you from doing what your Soul (you want to do)

Up until a few years ago, I would have agreed with you on this completely, however, my wife inherited some money, about £100,000, which should have been used to help us through old age, instead, we gave most of it away, looking back, none of the people we 'helped' have benefited, we just made people with problems reliant on us, and those problems came back when the money ran out, now there is a tendency to say, help everyone, Guruji helps those who help others, but I do not think this is the essence of Sikhism, you do not help others to then have to request help, that is pointless, and to feel that 'everything will be ok' smells of superstition and magic, when none exists, there is only us, our actions, and consonance, prior to helping anyone, or thinking anything, we must be in consonance with the world, our surroundings, and more important, with ourself. Some of those words should be heeded to, not all are an effort to stop us helping, some are for self preservation, so that we do not become reliant on others, which must be every Sikhs nightmare, as we are a self reliant lot

It is not my intention to change your mind, life experience will do that on its own, but I do enjoy the debates, must go now, there is a queue of children outside............

 

[TruthSatnaam]

Satnaam Ji

I am a man, the minute I stop acting like a man, I am either dead, or I have attained complete understanding and enlightenment. Now I have to be honest with you, I am a realist, I have to this date, never met a man who had attained understanding to the point that he would not have been aware of a draw on one of his thieves, in fact, I am not sure I wish to be without this draw, its what makes me human, and not superhuman. I am happy and content with the fact that I can be discerning enough to know how to treat the opposite sex, even though I still have age old animal instincts. I understand these instincts, sometimes they are for good, sometimes for bad, it is a case of knowing which is good, and to embrace, and which is bad, and ignore, this is nothing to do with cleansing, more to live in peace, understanding and consonance.

Living in Naam is living in/practicing Truth. The point of practicing Truth is to silence the mind. When we go into samadhi, we are quieting our minds to the point that we can just Feel within our being.

When this happens, our hearts are freed from the shackles of the mind(origin of the 5 thieves).

It is then that we ae able to truly love- and discover the reality of the universe around us, for as you are aware- we are living in illusion.

It goes further than sitting down samadhi- when we practice Nirboah and Nirvair and apply Truth throughout our daily lives(see my previous posts), the samadhi comes on it's own- we learn as we eat, sleep and live and throughout our natural lives.

We orginated from the silence- and we go back to it again..


When we begin to live in Truth, we are opening our hearts- to learn as and how He wills it- silencing the mind. We go way beyond logic on this path- for logic is tied down by maya- we cannot comprehend the Truth reality while dwelling in maya.

When our hearts begin to open- and we silence our minds- we begin to experience the energies of others- a woman with uncontrolled lust may walk into your store- her lust triggers off your lust and you simultaneously confuse it for your own- you blame yourself.

And we are to blame- for the reality is that we are Nothing. If we lived this truth, we'd be beyond the crap and the illusions. Our logic cannot decipher the Truth- you need to feel/experience it.

God throws these scenarios at us, to confuse the crap out of us, to bow down low, realising that His Truth is beyond our Ego's(Mind/thieves/logic) and that we cannot do anything.

God bless you

 

[Ambarsaria]

TruthSatnaam ji thanks for a good post.

I was doing my posting in the following and thought it may particularly apply to some of the dialog here,

http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/sukhmani-sahib/38634-sukhmani-sahib-astpadi-23-sabad-1-a.html

Some lines referenced from the above post below,

Living in Naam is living in/practicing Truth. The point of practicing Truth is to silence the mind. When we go into samadhi, we are quieting our minds to the point that we can just Feel within our being.

It is then that we ae able to truly love- and discover the reality of the universe around us, for as you are aware- we are living in illusion.

ਨਉ ਨਿਧਿ ਅੰਮ੍ਰਿਤੁ ਪ੍ਰਭ ਕਾ ਨਾਮੁ ॥ ਦੇਹੀ ਮਹਿ ਇਸ ਕਾ ਬਿਸ੍ਰਾਮੁ ॥
Na▫o niḏẖ amriṯ parabẖ kā nām. Ḏehī mėh is kā bisrām.
Nine treasures of purity is the creator’s understanding. So residing in human body.

.......... Our logic cannot decipher the Truth- you need to feel/experience it.

ਸੁੰਨ ਸਮਾਧਿ ਅਨਹਤ ਤਹ ਨਾਦ ॥ ਕਹਨੁ ਨ ਜਾਈ ਅਚਰਜ ਬਿਸਮਾਦ ॥
Sunn samāḏẖ anhaṯ ṯah nāḏ. Kahan na jā▫ī acẖraj bismāḏ.
A continuous and unperturbed sound pervades such a body. Such cannot be so stated, being mysterious and different.

Sat Sri Akal.

 

[chazSingh]

Satnaam Ji
Living in Naam is living in/practicing Truth. The point of practicing Truth is to silence the mind. When we go into samadhi, we are quieting our minds to the point that we can just Feel within our being.
Thank you ji for the enlightening words. I feel i am experiencing something like this now, i find it hard to explain, but the peace experienced fills me with joy. Sometimes the mind tries to interrupt, but i smile in meditation at the crazy things it flashes up. I think it's finally getting the message that i'm not interested in its logic, excuses, reasoning...it just holds you back, and if you want to experience all that is god, then the limits/shackles need to be let go of.

When this happens, our hearts are freed from the shackles of the mind(origin of the 5 thieves).

It is then that we are able to truly love- and discover the reality of the universe around us, for as you are aware- we are living in illusion.

While we are having a dream, to us it is reality for that period, but it's illusion, while we are in this life, it appears as reality for the period of our life, but its illusion...even beyond this life, most of it is still Maya until we hopefully return back home and realise all was and is God - One.

It goes further than sitting down samadhi- when we practice Nirboah and Nirvair and apply Truth throughout our daily lives(see my previous posts), the samadhi comes on it's own- we learn as we eat, sleep and live and throughout our natural lives.
This is why Simran and daily seva go hand in hand, both work off each other for the purpose of realising one-self and all that is around us.

We orginated from the silence- and we go back to it again..


When we begin to live in Truth, we are opening our hearts- to learn as and how He wills it- silencing the mind. We go way beyond logic on this path- for logic is tied down by maya- we cannot comprehend the Truth reality while dwelling in maya.
Another truth, described perfectly by yourself. the mind of logic was created for us to operate in this reality...having been en-slaved by the mind for so long, the time comes to get back to the truth and experience the truth - this cannot be done by the mind operating in 3 dimensional reality. From my understanding and experience.

When our hearts begin to open- and we silence our minds- we begin to experience the energies of others- a woman with uncontrolled lust may walk into your store- her lust triggers off your lust and you simultaneously confuse it for your own- you blame yourself.

And we are to blame- for the reality is that we are Nothing. If we lived this truth, we'd be beyond the crap and the illusions. Our logic cannot decipher the Truth- you need to feel/experience it.
perfect truth 'you need to feel/experience it'

God throws these scenarios at us, to confuse the crap out of us, to bow down low, realising that His Truth is beyond our Ego's(Mind/thieves/logic) and that we cannot do anything.
All is God, we have two choices, live by the will of the 5 thieves tormenting us, getting us into problems, mischief. happy when good things come our way, upset and angry when bad things occur.
Or to live in Gods will - pure unconditional love, no matter what happens, good or bad, all is god and only god exists so how can we not love each.
no fear (because only god exists), no hatred (who's to hate).
I know which state i would want to be in (but only by His grace).



God bless you

Thanks and god bless for such inspiration. This is why i opened this thread. True movement towards God realisation - seva - sharing - Simran.

 

[TruthSatnaam]

Thanks and god bless for such inspiration. This is why i opened this thread. True movement towards God realisation - seva - sharing - Simran.

No problem, anytime..

If you have any questions, drop me an email.

Satnaam Ji


Personal details removed. It is not safe internet practice. Please use the provate messaging facility on SPN

 

[Luckysingh]

I am sorry Luckyji, I do not find this sewa at all.In my view sewa requires discretion, intelligence and foresight. I know it is tempting to help all and sundry, to just throw money at things, but you can easily cause more problems than solving. This brings me right to the crux of the problem with simran as described by yourself and Chazji. Your meditating and absorbing only the surface philosophies, therefore, the primary intention will always be the most obvious. Where is the thinking? Your simran has only taught you to give up your time and your money, as that is in line with 'doing good', but there is more to doing good than blindly giving up time and money.

.

I think you are going off track here, if your read my post again you can notice that I was giving an example. But you are defining seva and classing things as seva and not seva. As Chazji mentioned, helping with dishes, giving your neighbour tea bags is ALL seva.
The point I was making is that when we start defining 'my seva' as you have done, this is when it goes wrong. This is when your 'ego' kicks in, the me,me,me,..I have done, I have done, I have done...Mine is worthy of seva.. Only mine is right...... etc...etc... ALL this fuels your EGO
This is the exact point that I'm making, it's too easy sometimes to do a certain seva, but what it does to your ego plays a huge part in how you use your MIND to control your 5 thieves.

Listen to this ego within, see what it's actually doing and making you think.
When you mention that it is all surface etc.. this again is the ego that is making you class yourself in a different boat. It's not just you, its every single one of us, we all do it to some degree. BUT trying to identify it is the only way forward to help you conquer it.
Now I can truly say that in my case the simran has helped me to identify, but I still have a long way to go.

Waheguru

 

[Luckysingh]

Living in Naam is living in/practicing Truth. The point of practicing Truth is to silence the mind. When we go into samadhi, we are quieting our minds to the point that we can just Feel within our being.

When this happens, our hearts are freed from the shackles of the mind(origin of the 5 thieves).

Truthsatnaam ji,
Your post above is marvellous. This practicing the truth by silencing mind is the only way no matter how one approaches it.
The only way to conquer weaknesses and 5 thieves is CONTROL of Your MIND.
This is my only conclusion. We can't just remove them and eradicate them for good as some people mistakenly believe, but we have to constantly be at battle with them by SILENCING them.
Only then can the truth become stronger. But we have to keep at it all the time, we cannot measure or quantify it.

The more simran and meditation that I may do, the more avenues of areas I need to work at keep opening up. I'm convinced now that this is how it's supposed to be until the very last breath but I look forward to this journey to the Guru and his word.

Waheguru


Waheguru

 

[sid]

every things is very simple and straight in this world no need too twist,just listen our inner voice,inner conscience it always is same in all humans.
we just have to talk simple,live simple,help others,and ultimately dedicate every thing every deed at last to god,and if we have to dedicate ourselves to god the only way is simran jaap of almighty

 

[arshi]

Chaz ji
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Please forgive for the audacity to raise this. I am a little intrigued by your form of greeting ‘Satnaam’. Sikhs use the greeting ‘Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh’ or its, less formal, short form Gurfateh. Sat Siri Akal is also used as a general form of address when Sikhs run into each other – fmore popular amongst non-amritdharis. Sat Siri Akal is also used by our Naamdhari friends, on stage and otherwise. Please do not see this as a criticism – just plain curiousity and passion to learn.

As I have indicated in my earlier post, I am extremely impressed by your humility and dedication to Gurbani, although I do not necessarily agree with the techniques you use – I just do not know enough about your exact approach and discipline and would rather not discuss it anyway – no offence meant. Some use the ‘swas swas’ technique whilst others speak of ‘swas giras’. Harry ji has his personal approach. However, he is very sincere and truthful in what he does – his courage to talk about his innermost feelings and private life is commendable - each to his own as they say.

I am much closer to the approach described by Jasleen ji (findingmyway - hope I got the name right). She wrote:

<I>“Different people work differently and my understanding of Gurbani's references to simran are implementing Gurbani in your life, however that may be. For some it is the constant repetition of Waheguru. For me personally, that does not work at all. For me its always analysing myself, my words and actions, its doing voluntary work and it is working through my sehaj paath very slowly trying to understand Gurbani rather that reciting it only (no matter how much love goes into the recitation, it is not enough for me).”</I>
<I></I>
However, I also try to attune myself to the Guru’s teachings through <I>keertan,</I> sometimes, including a brief <I>chanting</I> of Waheguru at home and on stage. I, personally, do not engage in endless chanting (at home or on stage). I have seen a lot of this on TV and on various stages but the protagonists do not appear to extend their activities to the welfare of the general society they live in – they just operate within their own circles and add to divisions and confusion within the Sikh Panth and families – brothers do not speak to brothers or eat at each other’s place. I actually know of such cases.

Yes we have problems with the Jathedars but we cannot blame them for all our ills. We as a nation must also take responsibility – we need to unite and strive and bridge the schisms created by an endless queue of babas and deras – apologies to the ones who are genuine and stand up for the mainstream Sikh values and interests. I personally am not into babas but have admired one or two from a distance – neither am I, currently, a member of any group, mainstream or otherwise, but I do take part, as an independent individual, in social activities, including keertan.

All of the above is meant in good spirit but apologies, nevertheless, for anything untoward in my post.

Rajinder Singh ‘Arshi’

 

[chazSingh]

Chaz ji

Please forgive for the audacity to raise this. I am a little intrigued by your form of greeting ‘Satnaam’. Sikhs use the greeting ‘Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh’ or its, less formal, short form Gurfateh. Sat Siri Akal is also used as a general form of address when Sikhs run into each other – fmore popular amongst non-amritdharis. Sat Siri Akal is also used by our Naamdhari friends, on stage and otherwise. Please do not see this as a criticism – just plain curiousity and passion to learn.
Satnaam Ji, wjkk wjkf, sat sri akal...i use all of the above, in no particular order or popularity The words/sounds of Waheguru and Satnaam have been with me since childhood when my mother used to tell me to jaap them and think about, be curious of God and Guru Ji.
Satnaam i like using amongst sangat because it signifies the existance of god in all of us. Ek ong kar - from the ONE came the SOUND and through the sound it expressed itself in form - KAR

Satnaam, the true naam, the presense of god within all, our true identity that we must remember and become once again.

So sometimes i greet other sangat members with Satnam

As I have indicated in my earlier post, I am extremely impressed by your humility and dedication to Gurbani, although I do not necessarily agree with the techniques you use – I just do not know enough about your exact approach and discipline and would rather not discuss it anyway – no offence meant. Some use the ‘swas swas’ technique whilst others speak of ‘swas giras’. Harry ji has his personal approach. However, he is very sincere and truthful in what he does – his courage to talk about his innermost feelings and private life is commendable - each to his own as they say.

I am much closer to the approach described by Jasleen ji (findingmyway - hope I got the name right). She wrote:

“Different people work differently and my understanding of Gurbani's references to simran are implementing Gurbani in your life, however that may be. For some it is the constant repetition of Waheguru. For me personally, that does not work at all. For me its always analysing myself, my words and actions, its doing voluntary work and it is working through my sehaj paath very slowly trying to understand Gurbani rather that reciting it only (no matter how much love goes into the recitation, it is not enough for me).”

I use only two mantras to be honest "satnaam" and "waheguru" only because i have a strong connection with them during my life. As soon as jap them, like a lightening bold i feel connected to Guru Ji. So much love behind those words, so i dont bother with any other mantra.

I jaap the mantra because when i focus on the mantra my mind is stopped from thinking of money, women, family bickering, greed, ego related desires. this gets easier to do because of the love that sits with the words/sounds of waheguru and satnaam.

The mantra is only to quieten the mind so that i can 'listen' deep within, or just relax in peace for once without the crap that litters the mind all day and night.

The surprise was, and i didnt expect anything more out of this other than to relax myself, there IS an inner light, an inner sound current, and only god knows what else...i'm on the train now...and i never want to get back off.

Guru Ji says
eik man eaek dhhiaaeeai man kee laahi bharaa(n)th ||
With one-pointed mind, meditate on the One Lord, and the doubts of your mind will be dispelled.

The 'one pointed mind' or 'Eik man' as described by Guru Ji is what the mantra helps with to obtain the one pointed mind during meditation, so that we can really listen deep in smadhi to and experience our real true selves. The satnaam within us all. and then just like guru ji says 'the doubts of the mind will be dispelled.

I can tell you that the doubts of my mind have been stamped on when everything i've read in gurbani over the years starts to become a 'REALITY' and i started experiencing it DEEP WITHIN just like gurbani said all along. Gurbani never lied to me, it's shown me finally that its all REAL



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The soul 'listens', so when you chatter waheguru or satnaam in your mind, try to really listen to each sound, vibration...100% concentration to just them sounds. full focus. What you'll find is after a few moments of being able to concentrate 100% on the sounds, your mind will start to drift away to something else...you feel this..and when you do, shake it off, and then go back to 100% concentration on satnaam and waheguru. It does start to feel like a battle, because your mind doesnt let you do this concentration, but the love that you have for guru ji and the love that you have for the words Satnaam and Waheguru helps a lot.

It is this 'drifting of the mind' to other things, that the mantra is fighting.
you will start to notice that it is drifting to certain things like women, money, a family member you have issues with, desire for anything.
The more you practice, the better the ability to focus "eik man" "single minded" towards the mantra and the better you become at stoping the mind from thinking of the 5 thieve related thoughts.

The 'japping' and 'listing with 100% focus' by then has done its job and you become open to the GOD WITHIN YOU. to your SOUL. what happens then, well, its for you to find out but one thing i promise you, after the effort you make to break the entanglement with the mind, you'll never look back, you'll just keep going forward towards god. I vouch for it.



I have seen a lot of this on TV and on various stages but the protagonists do not appear to extend their activities to the welfare of the general society they live in – they just operate within their own circles and add to divisions and confusion within the Sikh Panth and families – brothers do not speak to brothers or eat at each other’s place. I actually know of such cases.
I cannot make judgement on these people lives after they have done some jaap on T.V. they may do a lot of other seva, or they may not be...but i cannot say everyone is like this. because i know i'm not like this.
lets just help each other, uplift each other..thats the only method i know.



Yes we have problems with the Jathedars but we cannot blame them for all our ills. We as a nation must also take responsibility – we need to unite and strive and bridge the schisms created by an endless queue of babas and deras – apologies to the ones who are genuine and stand up for the mainstream Sikh values and interests. I personally am not into babas but have admired one or two from a distance – neither am I, currently, a member of any group, mainstream or otherwise, but I do take part, as an independent individual, in social activities, including keertan.

All of the above is meant in good spirit but apologies, nevertheless, for anything untoward in my post.
Not sure why the topic of babs and deras has come up here. I'm not part of any but there definately are some real true people out there that have reached god consciosness, and if we cross paths with the True ones then that is beautiful grace.

God bless all.

 

[arshi]

Chaz ji
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Many thanks for clearing up the points. I enjoy reading your posts and sharing your knowledge and practical experience in your pursuit of Sikhi.

‘Satnaam’ is a wonderful shabd, part of our Mool Mantar – I was only curious as to its use as a form of greeting, the fact that you use it only as such answers my curiosity (BTW a cult used it more than a form of greeting but the lesser said the better).

Re: deras etc - I was only trying to clarify my own position (one of total independence) in relation to babas, deras and cult organizations.

As far as simran is concerned it is a means to an end, i.e. to seek direction and guidance to conduct myself as a good, decent citizen on this earth and hopefully, with Guru’s grace to progress spiritually to acquit myself with some credit beyond this mortal life.

I am glad we agree on many things, which means a lot, considering our current state of affairs, where we as a fraternity we do not seem to agree on much.

Best wishes and God Bless.

Rajinder Singh ‘Arshi’

 

[chazSingh]

Chaz ji
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Many thanks for clearing up the points. I enjoy reading your posts and sharing your knowledge and practical experience in your pursuit of Sikhi.

‘Satnaam’ is a wonderful shabd, part of our Mool Mantar – I was only curious as to its use as a form of greeting, the fact that you use it only as such answers my curiosity (BTW a cult used it more than a form of greeting but the lesser said the better).

Re: deras etc - I was only trying to clarify my own position (one of total independence) in relation to babas, deras and cult organizations.

As far as simran is concerned it is a means to an end, i.e. to seek direction and guidance to conduct myself as a good, decent citizen on this earth and hopefully, with Guru’s grace to progress spiritually to acquit myself with some credit beyond this mortal life.

I am glad we agree on many things, which means a lot, considering our current state of affairs, where we as a fraternity we do not seem to agree on much.

Best wishes and God Bless.

Rajinder Singh ‘Arshi’

Thank you ji for your posts. I wanted this thread for some serious discussion and sangat such as yourself have made it worthwhile. I'm sure we'll all have great discussions in the future also as we all progress towards God

Sometimes on this forum it may seem like i'm coming across with one point of view, or come across as highlighting may way to be the only way. But i've only tried to speak from my own experience. I feel i'm having actual experience of guruji and god and want everyone to have such great personal experience whichever way it works for them.

In the end we don't actually do anything, the simran, the experiences, the effort, its all Him

god bless you and the sangat.

 

[spnadmin]

A recent post by heoric has been moved to begin a new thread. The content is not based on Gurmat understanding of Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji and therefore should not be in the Sikh Sikhi Sikhism subforum. You can find the new thread at this link http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/hinduism/41948-the-inner-experience-and-subconscious-mind.html