The Five Realms

[arshi]

spadmin ji

Gur Fateh

Some posts are missing, including Chaz ji’s post and my post of 20.8.13

admin note: content has been deleted because it was a re-posting of already deleted comments. Feel free to have talk about naam simran by private message. Do not edit my note; do not repost the material. Thank you.

 

[spnadmin]

I deleted them.

 

[arshi]

Spnadmin ji

I was not aware of the deletion of the posts. I assumed this was part of the computer problems you had yesterday – just wanted you to know - although, I must admit, I am a bit surprised. But you have your reasons.

Deleted. Spiritual journeys of various members must demonstrate their relevance to the thread topic. spnadmin


Anyway, thanks for the clarification.

Rajinder Singh ‘Arshi’

 

[arshi]

Tejwant ji

Gur Fateh

Your Post no 50 (Tuesday 20 August 2013 – 05.18 am) has caused me some hurt and distress, to say the least. But it is OK between brothers.

I do not mind a good debate but when it gets personal it is time to quit.

I felt your post was provocative and do not want to engage as we must set a good example for our younger brothers and sisters. If I were to answer my reply could run into dozens of pages. But I am not going to fall for it.

Tejwant ji, one cannot survive in universities and colleges in UK and abroad for 35 years without developing a thick skin. One thing I have learnt is to ignore, forgive and forget – Gurbani has taught me that much - repay wrongdoing with benevolence and dont harbour any grudges.

I have always treated you with utmost respect and have said this on many occasions, and I intend to keep my end. My respect for you was derived, at a very early stage in our exchanges (2009), from the work you said you do for Sikhs and for the wider community, including your involvement in setting up schools. You have also alluded to that in your post above. This is, indeed, commendable. Whilst I am appreciative of your good work, it endears you to me but does not make you my faith leader, as you suggest in the case of Bhai Sahib. My only faith (spiritual) leader is Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji and I have made this clear many times.

In view of the above, I must bow out gracefully from this discussion. I hope you will respect my wishes. We may if Waheguru desires, sometime, meet personally, possibly on my travels to the States. I may get an opportunity (if I am permitted, of course) to do kirtan (nishkaam sewa, if I can call it sewa) at your local Gurdwara, and you can see that despite my dastar and multi layered fifty, you refer to, there are no horns attached :winkingmunda:. Its pure kirtan, no lecture or parchar. Another esteemed member/mentor of this forum has met me recently on my visit to Delhi in 2009, and can vouch for that. I am sure, if and, when we meet, there will be no distance between us, in mind or spirit, and we will embrace each other Punjabi style (jaffi, vaffi) like good old brothers.

With this, my brother, I seek your forgiveness for anything untoward I may have said, now or in the past, but at the same time I opt to seek a closure to this matter.

God Bless.

Humbly
Rajinder Singh ‘Arshi’

 

[Tejwant Singh]

Arshi ji,

Guru Fateh.

Thanks for your response.

I apologise for being blunt from the get go. You many feel more hurt and distressed because that is what truth does and Gurbani teaches us to be honest in order to dwell in truthful living.

I am still confused by it though. Why this doublespeak? We as Sikhs learn from each other, not hide behind sort of kind words when in reality they are meaningless because of the venomous nature of a pretend kindness. Hypocricy is not part of Sikhi but honesty is.

Allow me to show you that from your own posts. It is for all to see and check.

Your Post no 50 (Tuesday 20 August 2013 – 05.18 am) has caused me some hurt and distress, to say the least. But it is OK between brothers.

Here is the first example of true anger with a doublespeak of pretend kindness.

You are hurt and distressed by my remarks but it is OK between brothers. If is is OK between brothers, then why feel hurt and distressed? The question you should ask yourself. What are you truly trying to say behind the veils?

I do not mind a good debate but when it gets personal it is time to quit.

I agree Arshi ji, but sorry to disappoint you, it is you who made it personal, not me. Here again, you are passing the blame on others rather than taking any personal responsibility.

Here is one of many examples where you have not shown kindness, nor understanding of what was being said.

Your words:
I have written and posted many articles on this site well liked by admin and others including Tejwant ji. I have shown nothing but utter respect to Tejwant ji but his post above leaves a lot to be desired.
http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/spiritual-articles/28344-the-five-realms-5.html#post189443

You applied the same trick here as you applied in this post about,"But It is OK between the brothers". Can you see your own hypocritical doublespeak?

I felt your post was provocative and do not want to engage as we must set a good example for our younger brothers and sisters. If I were to answer my reply could run into dozens of pages. But I am not going to fall for it.

Arshi Ji, I totally agree with you that,"we must set a good example for our younger brothers and sisters".

Then I would suggest that you should ask yourself, your comments towards me "This, in my opinion, is some what mischievous."
http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/spiritual-articles/28344-the-five-realms-5.html#post189484

What sort of examples are we setting for our younger brothers and sisters with your above comments?

Tejwant ji, one cannot survive in universities and colleges in UK and abroad for 35 years without developing a thick skin. One thing I have learnt is to ignore, forgive and forget – Gurbani has taught me that much - repay wrongdoing with benevolence and dont harbour any grudges.

This again has the tinges of doublespeak. First and foremost: Forgiveness exists only in the mind of the forgiver, and therefore requires no "acceptance".

Secondly, only Ik Ong Kaar has the power to forgive, the rancor of man is incapable of doing that.

Lastly,you are being dishonest about forgetting too. Your own posts show that. Here is one of many examples:

First of all let me clear the point regarding the PM – I have exact copies of these. My last post to you on the forum was on the 9th December 2009. As I did not hear from you for several days, I wondered what was wrong and sent a PM as below on the 13th December 2009:

“I expected some sort of response to the answers provided, either on the Forum or through PM. Since none has been forthcoming, I take it that you are either satisfied with the answers, or much more likely, I have fallen short of providing them. I am not looking for a detailed response on the Forum because of my pending travel schedule starting tomorrow but a short note would be nice.”
http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/spiritual-articles/28344-the-five-realms-5.html#post189468

Arshi ji, let me ask you a question, if it is OK between brothers then why keep all the PM's from years ago? You see how it shows your doublespeak.

I am glad I do not keep any PM's from the years gone by because for me it is really OK between the brothers and also I think it is a useless endeavour in my opinion unless one has a different agenda than one regularly sermons about.

I am sure you have all the PM's because it shows it is NOT OK between brothers from your side. However, this is what I wrote in another thread regarding the PM from you.

I have received you PM. Thanks for that and I requested you that this interaction should be where it belongs, that is in the forum, not in private. I hope you will agree with me on that.
http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/sikh-gurus/29587-guru-nanak-in-uganda-africa-3.html#post123014

I have always treated you with utmost respect and have said this on many occasions, and I intend to keep my end. My respect for you was derived, at a very early stage in our exchanges (2009), from the work you said you do for Sikhs and for the wider community, including your involvement in setting up schools. You have also alluded to that in your post above. This is, indeed, commendable. Whilst I am appreciative of your good work,

Arshi ji, I never said anywhere I did this work. I am surprised you remember our exchanges of 2009, so according to your own admission, there is no such thing as forgive and forget I must say.

it endears you to me but does not make you my faith leader, as you suggest in the case of Bhai Sahib. My only faith (spiritual) leader is Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji and I have made this clear many times.

Arshi ji, I want to thank you for finally admitting this although you fought with tooth and nail against the same very thing. Thanks for admitting that Bhai Sahib, Dr. Mohinder Singh, the Chairman and the main honcho of GNNSJ is NOT your faith leader, which proves, according to your own admission that he is a faith leader of a cult, not a faith leader of Sikhi, the point you vehemently denied earlier.

So, taking your words on the face value, you admit now that this faith leader of the cult works for his own fame and also for the benefit of the cult using his Sikhi garb as a calling card by shaming Sikhi with his actions. He disdains mona Sikhs and I am sure you were aware of that even before Lucky Singh mentioned about it, but sadly did not fight for equality and nor did you speak against it. As you and I agree that your and mine only faith leader is Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji, our only Guru and it urges us to fight against injustice.

In view of the above, I must bow out gracefully from this discussion. I hope you will respect my wishes.

No, we should not, and we will not as you have responded to other people's queries and/or pitched in. Sikhi is all about interaction. It is all about learning from each other and I will never let you stop teaching me from your Gurmat wisdom.

I still would like to hear your views on the YUGS article I wrote and need your input about the similarities and differences in the thought process of what you wrote about the Five Realms and also your input about the futility of separating the pearls of this beautiful necklace called Jap.

We may if Waheguru desires, sometime, meet personally, possibly on my travels to the States. I may get an opportunity (if I am permitted, of course) to do kirtan (nishkaam sewa, if I can call it sewa) at your local Gurdwara, and you can see that despite my dastar and multi layered fifty, you refer to, there are no horns attached :winkingmunda:[/FONT]Its pure kirtan, no lecture or parchar.

.

It will be an honour to have your gracious presence when and if you visit Las Vegas. All seva is nishkaam in Sikhi, hence it is called Seva.

Regarding your multi layered fifty, it was not to make fun of it but to appreciate it because it looks cool on you. In fact during 9-11, some Sikhs gave me Red, White and Blue fiftys to wear but I only wear black under-turban and I was distributing Red, White and Blue ribbons to all, so I decided to wear that ribbon for a year till the first anniversary where I was the first Sikh to be invited to talk about the tragedy.

Another esteemed member/mentor of this forum has met me recently on my visit to Delhi in 2009, and can vouch for that. I am sure, if and, when we meet, there will be no distance between us, in mind or spirit, and we will embrace each other Punjabi style (jaffi, vaffi) like good old brothers.

Arshi ji, I do not need any vouching from anyone regarding your kind heart. I know that you have it. I will be always indebted to you for your insights about Sikhi from which I have learnt a lot and will keep on learning from you.

Arshi ji: It is OK to have disagreements and even heated arguments among brothers. One can only have that with one's own, not with the stranger. So, please do not take it by heart.

Lastly, lets both do what Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji, our only Guru (our only faith leader) says"Keep a steady eye On what lies ahead; Waste no time On what is past!" Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji, M5, 1096:12

With utmost respect.

Regards

Tejwant Singh

 

[arshi]

Tejwant ji

Many thanks for the response. I am only going to dwell on the positives.

Arshi ji, let me ask you a question, if it is OK between brothers then why keep all the PM's from years ago? You see how it shows your doublespeak.

I am not technically as adept on the internet as many others. I am approaching 72 and started schooling when we used wooden slabs to write, only to wash them later at the village pond ready for the next scribe. Being in the university environment I have learnt some of the basic functions but cannot keep up with the younger generation. Therefore, I normally compose long posts on the word before posting. I save that information which may be vital to my writings for future revision purposes. They are not retained for any malice or evil intentions. I only brought up the PM because you mentioned it. This is only offered as an explanation/clarification and no accusation.

Tejwant ji I mean what I say, otherwise we will not be having this prolonged discussion. Sometimes we have to err on the cautious side. Innocent remarks can be misconstrued very easily, particularly on an open forum. When we speak face to face our words, coupled with our expression, voice and demeanor, help to convey the message more effectively. This would normally rules out any misunderstanding.

On a personal basis: I am a very simple person, or at least would like to think so. I, normally, do keertan in ordinary clothes, i.e. no formal garb, The nearest I get to a formal dress is a Rajastani, Jaipuri style jacket. Most Gurdwaras in UK do not mind that. However, it is more comfortable in the usual kirtaniyaa garb - very occasionally I have done so.

I am currently lecturing to a group of 150 delegates for over 4 months. Many emails are waiting to be answered and several references for students seeking work and placements to be written. My work is cut out for me. So please do forgive me if I am unable to engage in long discussions for the rest of the year but I do hope to chip in briefly, where time and opportunity becomes me and SPN tolerates me.

As far Yugs are concerned, I have done little research on this. Dr Rawel Singh ji, I know he was carrying out some research a few years ago and sought my opinion on a particular point, which I then gave to the best of my knowledge. I have not followed the issue since but I look forward to seeing his finished essay.

It will be an honour to have your gracious presence when and if you visit Las Vegas. All seva is nishkaam in Sikhi, hence it is called Seva.

Yes, I look forward to that and talk as brothers. What is the name of the Gurdwara? Or perhaps I should ask Bhai Sahib! 0

Arshi ji, I do not need any vouching from anyone regarding your kind heart. I know that you have it. I will be always indebted to you for your insights about Sikhi from which I have learnt a lot and will keep on learning from you.

Stop teasing veer ji . I am no scholar and how can you be indebted to a brother.

Arshi ji: It is OK to have disagreements and even heated arguments among brothers. One can only have that with one's own, not with the stranger. So, please do not take it by heart.

I am really touched – this is coming from the heart - no gilla, shikvaas remain now. I have already said your good work has endeared you to me. This caps it.

Lastly, lets both do what Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji, our only Guru (our only faith leader) says"Keep a steady eye On what lies ahead; Waste no time On what is past!" Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji, M5, 1096:12

Agree 110%. Let us end on a positive note.

Sorry for the long post – wanted to keep it short and sweet, but you bring the best out of me. I am saving this postlol.

With the deepest and heart-felt regards

Rajinder Singh ‘Arshi’

 

[heoric]

I had an oppurtunity to meet Sant Mohinder Singh some years ago, when I travelled to Birmingham UK.

Unfortunately the public Tar all spiritual leaders with the same brush.
Its important to go within in meditation and then search within to see how you feel about the leader.

I could see his Clear Golden white Aura, which is what makes him a Spiritual leader.

I also saw he had the Vaishnava Line on his forehead.


Very few highly evolved people have this. However the person gifted with this Spiritual Gateway could also use his spiritual Power wrongly.

This Vaishnava Line runs about 2 ins, vertically between the eyebrows upwards onto the forehead. Sometimes it is deep and long. The Vaishnava line is only a single line, which makes it easy to spot.

There is very little written about this mark which highly evolved spiritual persons may have.
I remember seeing the film Jesus Christ Superstar, The actor who acts as Jesus has this huge deep Vaishnava line running up his forehead.

I found a write up of this line in the Book available in Kindle version only, "TRUE STORIES OF SPIRITUAL POWER" by Thomas Ashley-Farrand, available from Amazon, as the book is sold out.

Its an enlightening book to read, I highly recommend this for anyone on the spiritual Path.

Whenever I see anyone with this line I always ask the divine to allow the blessings to flow into me, and I have felt the divine energy blessings flowing into me blessing me where its most needed.

 

[Harry Haller]

I had an oppurtunity to meet Sant Mohinder Singh some years ago, when I travelled to Birmingham UK.

Good job Sikhism needs no clergy, or spiritual leaders, but I am sure Santji is a very spiritual man.

Unfortunately the public Tar all spiritual leaders with the same brush.
Its important to go within in meditation and then search within to see how you feel about the leader.

Thank you for the information, I cannot see this working in Sikhism myself, but if that is how spiritualism works, its good to be aware of how others find that connection. Once you have searched within to see how you feel about the leader, what then?

I could see his Clear Golden white Aura, which is what makes him a Spiritual leader.

In Sikhism those that practice what they preach, are true to heart, who motivate and assist others are known as spiritual slaves, they have no aura, could you tell me what a spritual leader actually does for you?

I also saw he had the Vaishnava Line on his forehead.

There seem to be many physical aspects that define enlightenment in spirituality, in Sikhism one is judged by others on actions and thoughts. Does having this line, or the aura automatically make one a leader?

Very few highly evolved people have this. However the person gifted with this Spiritual Gateway could also use his spiritual Power wrongly.

uhmmm you mean like Yogi Bhajan? Do you mean by using supernatural forces to do bad things? or do you mean by pretending to be spiritually gifted in order to fleece people out of money and setup your own harem?

This Vaishnava Line runs about 2 ins, vertically between the eyebrows upwards onto the forehead. Sometimes it is deep and long. The Vaishnava line is only a single line, which makes it easy to spot.

You are seriously stating that this physical facet defines who is and who is not enlightened? why would one want to spot it? what do you do if you spot one?

There is very little written about this mark which highly evolved spiritual persons may have.
I remember seeing the film Jesus Christ Superstar, The actor who acts as Jesus has this huge deep Vaishnava line running up his forehead.

Your supporting this argument using the physical aspects of the actor that played Jesus?

Whenever I see anyone with this line I always ask the divine to allow the blessings to flow into me, and I have felt the divine energy blessings flowing into me blessing me where its most needed.

What if it was the actor that played JC?

Personally I think you are giving spiritualists a bad name, I thought there was much much more to spiritualism than the above.

 

[chazSingh]

I had an oppurtunity to meet Sant Mohinder Singh some years ago, when I travelled to Birmingham UK.

Unfortunately the public Tar all spiritual leaders with the same brush.
Its important to go within in meditation and then search within to see how you feel about the leader.

I could see his Clear Golden white Aura, which is what makes him a Spiritual leader.

I also saw he had the Vaishnava Line on his forehead.


Very few highly evolved people have this. However the person gifted with this Spiritual Gateway could also use his spiritual Power wrongly.

This Vaishnava Line runs about 2 ins, vertically between the eyebrows upwards onto the forehead. Sometimes it is deep and long. The Vaishnava line is only a single line, which makes it easy to spot.

There is very little written about this mark which highly evolved spiritual persons may have.
I remember seeing the film Jesus Christ Superstar, The actor who acts as Jesus has this huge deep Vaishnava line running up his forehead.

I found a write up of this line in the Book available in Kindle version only, "TRUE STORIES OF SPIRITUAL POWER" by Thomas Ashley-Farrand, available from Amazon, as the book is sold out.

Its an enlightening book to read, I highly recommend this for anyone on the spiritual Path.

Whenever I see anyone with this line I always ask the divine to allow the blessings to flow into me, and I have felt the divine energy blessings flowing into me blessing me where its most needed.

I'm not sure about all this line on someones forehead...i've never come across it before.

A white/golden aura however is a sign (if one is able to see it) of purity and radiance of the soul.

i also think a spiritual leader is not a 'leader' or 'master' but a person whom if you come across in life you are sure to get pure answers from as they have removed the fog of the mind...if we are to believe SGGS Ji and have faith in it, then we must also believe that such souls exist in the world...otherwise Guru Ji has failed...I for one dont believe for a second that Guru Ji has failed

SGGS Ji mentions many times the benefit of the company of such souls...i guess if we need their company it is with Gods Grace that they come to pass in our lives..

Those who serve the True Guru in this world are very rare.
Those who keep the Lord enshrined in their hearts subdue egotism and possessiveness.
I am a sacrifice to those who are in love with the Naam.
Those who attain the Inexhaustible Name of the Infinite Lord remain happy throughout the four ages. ||3||
Meeting with the Guru, the Naam is obtained, and the thirst of emotional attachment departs.
When the mind is permeated with the Lord, one remains detached within the home of the heart.
I am a sacrifice to those who enjoy the Sublime Taste of the Lord.

http://www.sikhitothemax.com/page.asp?ShabadID=87

I have never met Sant mohinder Ji, so i cannot make judgement...but i am certain there are blessed souls within the world, and i'm just as certain that the world (maya) does whatever it can to tarnish their Seva.

 

[Harry Haller]

I'm not sure about all this line on someones forehead...i've never come across it before.

A white/golden aura however is a sign (if one is able to see it) of purity and radiance of the soul.

i also think a spiritual leader is not a 'leader' or 'master' but a person whom if you come across in life you are sure to get pure answers from as they have removed the fog of the mind...if we are to believe Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji and have faith in it, then we must also believe that such souls exist in the world...otherwise Guru Ji has failed...I for one dont believe for a second that Guru Ji has failed

Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji mentions many times the benefit of the company of such souls...i guess if we need their company it is with Gods Grace that they come to pass in our lives..

Those who serve the True Guru in this world are very rare.
Those who keep the Lord enshrined in their hearts subdue egotism and possessiveness.
I am a sacrifice to those who are in love with the Naam.
Those who attain the Inexhaustible Name of the Infinite Lord remain happy throughout the four ages. ||3||
Meeting with the Guru, the Naam is obtained, and the thirst of emotional attachment departs.
When the mind is permeated with the Lord, one remains detached within the home of the heart.
I am a sacrifice to those who enjoy the Sublime Taste of the Lord.

http://www.sikhitothemax.com/page.asp?ShabadID=87

I have never met Sant mohinder Ji, so i cannot make judgement...but i am certain there are blessed souls within the world, and i'm just as certain that the world (maya) does whatever it can to tarnish their Seva.

some might say true blessed souls remain unknown, whilst their works go down in history, who knows how many blessed souls fight and die each day so that life may continue in some sort of normality, clearly there is a difference in being a blessed soul, and acting like one, quietly, as you go about your business, every day, every hour, at one with connection, and sharing that through your life. Such blessed souls clearly need to take out some sort of advert so that they too can be a blessed soul rather than just putting on a facade.

 

[spnadmin]

It is time to return to the topic.