Islam What Do You Think Of Islam?

[harmanpreet singh]

I think some of us need to get over the notion that Sikhs are claiming Baba Farid and Kabir ji "as their own."

Apologies for having to repeat what has already been stated! There have been however a continuing string of red-herrings regarding the connection between Baba Farid and Kabir and Sikhism.

Only those aspects of the hymns of Farid and Kabir that are consistent with the Sikh idea of one, all pervading creator, have been included in Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji. It does not follow that anyone and everyone Sikh is claiming Farid and Kabir as their own because everything else that Guru Arjan Dev rejected was not consistent with the teachings of Guru Nanak. Hence the red-herrings.

ya ,Kabir ji ,Farid ji ,all Bhagat Sahib ,all Guru Sahib are in full resonance in Guru Granth Sahib ji .

Unlike Abrahmic GOD ,for them Creator is not Separate from Creation , HE permeate each and every heart ,We All are divine ,We can realise Oneness with Divine by following Gurus Shabad .

They all rejected the Abrahmic/Islamic view of heaven/hell where MR GOD/ALLAH will provide big breast Virgins ,even to suicide bombers /phedophiles as long as they are muslims and will send someone like Mother Teressa /Bhagat Puran Singh ji to HELL for being non muslim .

below is a Shabad by Kabeer ji


ਕਵਨੁ ਨਰਕੁ ਕਿਆ ਸੁਰਗੁ ਬਿਚਾਰਾ ਸੰਤਨ ਦੋਊ ਰਾਦੇ ॥
What is hell, and what is heaven? The Saints reject them both.
ਹਮ ਕਾਹੂ ਕੀ ਕਾਣਿ ਨ ਕਢਤੇ ਅਪਨੇ ਗੁਰ ਪਰਸਾਦੇ ॥੫॥
I have no obligation to either of them, by the Grace of my Guru. ||5||
ਅਬ ਤਉ ਜਾਇ ਚਢੇ ਸਿੰਘਾਸਨਿ ਮਿਲੇ ਹੈ ਸਾਰਿੰਗਪਾਨੀ ॥
Now, I have mounted to the throne of the Lord; I have met the Lord, the Sustainer of the World
ਰਾਮ ਕਬੀਰਾ ਏਕ ਭਏ ਹੈ ਕੋਇ ਨ ਸਕੈ ਪਛਾਨੀ ॥੬॥੩॥
The Lord and Kabeer have become one. No one can tell them apart. ||6||3||


http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.gurbani?Action=Page&Param=969&g=1&h=0&r=0&t=1&p=0&k=0&fb=0

 

[harmanpreet singh]

But isn't the Muslim idea of "real truth" established not by God speaking with his mouth to Muhammad, but by an angel Gibreel coming to talk to him instead, than Muhammad told people, who wrote it down after his death, which scholars now interpret for Muslims? Muslim objective truth sure has had to come a long way from it's source.

One thing I've noticed about Muslims in particular (most people really but Muslims in particular) is that they fiercely try to assess the world through the lens of their religion only. They choose not to use any other methods of examination except through the lens of Islam and then use that to try to prove others wrong but, like, more actually exists in the world other than Islam and its just one set of mythology and isn't relevant for everyone. I could just as easily say that Islam is false because it makes no mention of Odin who is supreme God in the Norse Eddas.

Ishna ji ,Abrahmic GOD/ALLAH seems very SHY to me, he don't even talked directly to his last Prophet . 0

 

[harmanpreet singh]

On another note, if it did happen, I wonder if the non-Sikh members would be able to get away with repeatedly claiming that Sikhs are brainwashed for believing in Sikhi. Probably not, if I had to guess.

non -Sikh members are free to say so ,provided they mention reasons alongside .

 

[Gyani Jarnail Singh]

Ishna ji ,Abrahmic GOD/ALLAH seems very SHY to me, he don't even talked directly to his last Prophet . 0

NO Jios "He" is not shy..he is just acting like most "high Up" s these days..He has "Secretaries..He has PR Departments..He has "Official Spokesmen/women....maybe Hes just too busy...unlike the Father of Guru nanak/Farid/Kabir etc...who has all the time in the Universe...

 

[Punjabidave]

All people regardless of race, religion etc should be seen as equal!

 

[Inderjeet Kaur]

All people regardless of race, religion etc should be seen as equal!

What does this mean, "be seen as equal"?

 

[choochoochan]

I was born into a sikh household and have since converted to Islam.

I will try to answer the questions i have come across as best as i can.

Muhammad (Pbuh) was not the "best" or the most "favourite" prophet. This is evident from the Quran. The Quran talks more of Jesus (pbuh). Also, the quran states that all prophets served the same purpose. To propogate God's message on earth. They were, as you will, regents on earth. Not one was better than the other.

The Kaaba serves as a directional focus for muslims. Perhaps, it was foresight that made the commandment for Muslims to face the Kaaba instead of Jerusalem. It being the 3rd most holy (i use this term loosely cos in actual fact, the www is holy since it's from Allah. And no, i don't believe in that Dar al Islam and Dar al Harb and the other Dar's) in Islam is causing quite a bit of ruckus, with each Jewish and Christian factions disagreeing with the other religious factions. If Muslims had continued to pray towards Jerusalem, I am pretty sure there would be hell on earth, a worser hell than the one we are seeing now.

As far as i know, the ten human gurus of Sikhism were that, gurus, i.e. teachers, not prophets. Guru Nanak never claimed prophethood. Therefore, if you ask me, i accept Sikhs as one of the groups of people who (i) worship the one God (tawhid), and (ii) believe in the Judgement day (though Sikhs believe in reincarnation) espoused in the Quran.

I sometimes wonder, what do Sikhs think of the anecdote that Guru Nanak was willing to perform namaz with fellow muslims, but made observations as to their states of mind not being pure, in other words, not in the state of Dhikr.

Is music haaram? Nothing i've read in the Quran suggests so, but the broad principle is that as long as something can act to deviate you from the righteous path, surely that is haaram.

Why is halaal meat prescribed for muslims? I don't really know but i do know that halaal meat does taste better. I've had chinese mutton soup and it's tough and reeks as compared to the indian muslim mutton dishes. Also, i've read that blood of animals is nutritious. Nothing can be further from the truth. Pig's blood (yes i have had it and loved it), is banned from many a country, primarily because of the contamination factor that is prevalent in blood.
http://www.ava.gov.sg/NR/rdonlyres/...HarvestingandsaleofpigsbloodprohibitedinS.pdf

At the end of it, it's very simple. Who's a muslim? Anyone who believes in the one God in Tawhidness. The further "step" for us muslims (current usage) is to believe that Muhammad was God's messenger.

That's it. Bye bye. I apologise for any errors i've made.

 

[Luckysingh]

Interesting !
What made you convert ?

 

[Abneet]

I don't have anything against Islam. But today there are issues regarding the Islamic faith. You can start from the point where Muslims become radical from being taught by Muslim scholars and being brainwashed into thinking that their religion is the only answer and that everyone else is following the wrong path. Islam is a religion of peace from what Muslims say. But why is that war is very common with the religion.

Also I like to state the point where Muslim men have been obsessed with grooming girls in the UK and in Asia. Stories from Sikh girls depicting brothels in Pakistan where Muslim men keep girls detained. But in every religion there are sinners that do bad stuff so it really isn't fair for me to say this about Muslims alone.

Last point I want to make is Muslims are very strict in converting non-Muslims. I don't get the point where Muslims thinks its alright to tell someone that becoming Muslim is the only way blah blah blah. You guys do the same thing as Christian Missionaries, but they use a different tactic including targeting the poor which I'm not even the mood to talk about. Muslims take the whole converting thing to far that they will threaten one's life..

Also Muslims don't give women equal rights which I abhor.

Well really that's what I think of Islam. Sorry if I offended the Islamic Faith, I just wanted to state my opinion on it.

 

[choochoochan]

Interesting !
What made you convert ?

Never felt a sense of connection to Sikhism.

I was biased against Islam, tbh. I had misconceived notions of it being oppressive, backwards, yada yada. That was before i actually read the Quran.

 

[choochoochan]

I don't have anything against Islam. But today there are issues regarding the Islamic faith. You can start from the point where Muslims become radical from being taught by Muslim scholars and being brainwashed into thinking that their religion is the only answer and that everyone else is following the wrong path. Islam is a religion of peace from what Muslims say. But why is that war is very common with the religion.

Also I like to state the point where Muslim men have been obsessed with grooming girls in the UK and in Asia. Stories from Sikh girls depicting brothels in Pakistan where Muslim men keep girls detained. But in every religion there are sinners that do bad stuff so it really isn't fair for me to say this about Muslims alone.

Last point I want to make is Muslims are very strict in converting non-Muslims. I don't get the point where Muslims thinks its alright to tell someone that becoming Muslim is the only way blah blah blah. You guys do the same thing as Christian Missionaries, but they use a different tactic including targeting the poor which I'm not even the mood to talk about. Muslims take the whole converting thing to far that they will threaten one's life..

Also Muslims don't give women equal rights which I abhor.

Well really that's what I think of Islam. Sorry if I offended the Islamic Faith, I just wanted to state my opinion on it.

The Quran states that the he people of the Book, the Torah and the Gospel, and the Sabians are those who are believers. I do agree to a certain extent that there is a group of muslims who adhere to every word uttered by the Mullah, rather than the word of Allah, the Quran. In that also, we were warned, not to be like the Jews who favoured the words of the rabbi over the Torah.

I wasn't forced to convert. In fact, i was never approached to convert.

I am a woman. The Quran gives women the same rights as men, while acknowledging that both are different. The man has an edge over women in terms of physical strength. Is that inaccurate?

 

[Harry Haller]

I am a woman. The Quran gives women the same rights as men, while acknowledging that both are different. The man has an edge over women in terms of physical strength. Is that inaccurate?

you have not met my wife.......

 

[choochoochan]

you have not met my wife.......

 

[Luckysingh]

I am a woman. The Quran gives women the same rights as men, while acknowledging that both are different.

I could have guessed !
I've never come across a man that has converted, have you ?

Same rights to BOTH men and women ??
Oh yeah, I nearly forgot.... sex between a 53 year old man and a 9 year old girl is equal rights, because there is no discrimination of age into the equation !
Is this sexual relationship classed as immoral or moral ?

 

[Ishna]

Lucky ji, in my experience male conversions have been about the same as female ones. Did I misunderstand your point?

Choo ji

Thanks for sharing your thoughts and experiences. Im sorry you weren't able to connect with Sikhi. As long as your happy and lead an honourable life then that's the main thing.

From what I've read of the Quran, which was only the first 4 chapters and a few of the later ones, it was ok in respect to encouraging men to behave nicely with women, however I stopped reading when I got to the bit in chapter 4 where it says something about if a man does something indecent, lock him up for a while then forgive him, but is a woman does something indecent then lock her up at home forever. This is an example of an issue where non-Muslims can detect inequality in Islam. I'll go find the page, its been a while since I ready it, maybe I missed something.

 

[Ishna]

Yes, here it is:

[4:16]*And those of your women who are guilty of lewdness — call to witness four of you against them; and if they bear witness, then confine them to the houses until death overtake them or Allah open for them a way.

[4:17]*And if two men from among you are guilty of it, punish them both. And if they repent and amend, then leave them alone; surely, Allah is Oft-Returning*with compassion and is*Merciful.

From here: http://www.alislam.org/quran/search2/showChapter.php?ch=4&verse=11

 

[Luckysingh]

[4.15] And as for those who are guilty of an indecency from among your women, call to witnesses against them four (witnesses) from among you; then if they bear witness confine them to the houses until death takes them away or Allah opens some way for them.


don't forget 4.12, where men get twice the inheritance than women..

also .........4.34 Men are the maintainers of women because Allah has made some of them to excel others and because they spend out of their property; the good women are therefore obedient, guarding the unseen as Allah has guarded; and (as to) those on whose part you fear desertion, admonish them, and leave them alone in the sleeping-places and beat them; then if they obey you, do not seek a way against them; surely Allah is High, Great.


I could go on..........but I think we all get the point !
http://wikiislam.net/wiki/Compendium_of_Muslim_Texts

 

[Luckysingh]

Lucky ji, in my experience male conversions have been about the same as female ones. Did I misunderstand your point?

You may have come across as many males, but the overall figures in every country where conversions have occurred, it is a significant number of women compared to men, especially in the west.

 

[Ishna]

You can count me in your figure, obviously. But are you just stating facts or trying to imply something?

Your tone to Choo ji "I could have guessed" with reference to her gender means what exactly?

 

[Luckysingh]

I assumed chooji was a male at first, which is why I asked ''what mad you convert ?''
:grinningkaur: