aristotle
SPNer
Also
and what about the testimony of women being only the worth as that of a male testimony,
Islam What Do You Think Of Islam?
Also
and what about the testimony of women being only the worth as that of a male testimony,
- May 9, 2006
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The rules for inheritance can be understood when we consider the societal system at large - men supporting women. It makes more sense to give men more with which to support their women, and women less and they already have what their man is supporting them with.
Regarding the testimony of two women in place of one man, this is in the context of legal contracts / monetary contracts and is an acknowledgement of the lower literacy level of these women, again as a result of the society.
In context I personally don't see how these two points are unfair, and in fact they make sense.
Idealistically, however, by entrenching them as sacred writ, it does inhibit the growth of women and the advancement of women's rights and freedom.
It is also an interesting note that Muslims will argue the point about the two women testimony thing, with relation to business contracts, as compensating for their illiteracy, yet when we read the Psalms of the Old Testament (which is a Jewish scripture, predating the Quran and even Christian's New Testament) women are praised for running a home and her own land and business. Ergo, Quran is behind the Torah in this specific area.
Regarding the testimony of two women in place of one man, this is in the context of legal contracts / monetary contracts and is an acknowledgement of the lower literacy level of these women, again as a result of the society.
In context I personally don't see how these two points are unfair, and in fact they make sense.
Idealistically, however, by entrenching them as sacred writ, it does inhibit the growth of women and the advancement of women's rights and freedom.
It is also an interesting note that Muslims will argue the point about the two women testimony thing, with relation to business contracts, as compensating for their illiteracy, yet when we read the Psalms of the Old Testament (which is a Jewish scripture, predating the Quran and even Christian's New Testament) women are praised for running a home and her own land and business. Ergo, Quran is behind the Torah in this specific area.
aristotle
SPNer
Ishna Ji,
Qur'an is the Islamic equivalent for Word of God. Which means there won't be any better deal for women as Muhammad according to Islam was the last Prophet, there would be no fresh revelations on any Prophet now.
The question of society and circumstances (lower literacy, societal norms etc) would arise if Qur'an were revealed only for Arabs of Muhammad's times, but most Muslims believe it applies to all people at all times, being the unchanging Word of God. So, don't you think it would be applied on educated housewives and corporate women too, and I can only imagine the ramifications.
- May 9, 2006
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You nailed the issue precisely, bhaji!
I can't believe that someone will think that Indian mutton dishes are tasty because of halaal meat.Indian mutton dishes are tasty because the way they are prepared and not because of halaal meat.Many Sikh restaurent owners are famous in India for making tasty mutton and chicken dishes and they use Jhatka meat.
Its very difficult for an average person to find the difference between halal , jhatka or western style of slaughter meat , if they are prepared in same way
choochoochan
SPNer
- Nov 4, 2013
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Yes, i have met men who have converted.
The issue of sexual relations, legal ones thru marriage is only viewed in that perspective within backward societies. The main propogation of such a belief lies in Aisha getting married at 7 ( i think) and subsequently consummated the marriage at 9. Most muslims, do not believe it is right for a 9 yr old girl to be getting married. Have you personally met any muslims who think this is acceptable? I have not. As regards Aisha's age, Aisha was allowed into the battlefield with the Prophet, and that negates the belief that she was that young when she got married.
http://turntoislam.com/community/threads/was-aisha-really-9.49982/
To get married, both parties must know what they are getting into, or at least have the mental capacity to comprehend that. That marriage is not only AMORAL, it's haraam for a 9 yr old girl will not have the mental capacity to understand what is going on.
choochoochan
SPNer
- Nov 4, 2013
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4:17, is about repentance.
Yusuf Ali : Allah accepts the repentance of those who do evil, in ignorance and repent soon afterwards; to them, will Allah turn in mercy; for Allah is full of knowledge and wisdom.
You're talking about 4:15 which must be read with 4:16, about unlawful relations between a man and a woman. And the final limb of 4:16 is about? Repentance.
Yusuf Ali : If two persons among you are guilty of lewdness punish them both. If they repent and amend leave them alone; for Allah is Oft-Returning, Most Merciful.
This is the message which idiots like the Taliban keep ignoring. The Quran is peppered with statements about the forgiving and merciful nature of God. If God is forgiving, shouldn't Man be?
choochoochan
SPNer
- Nov 4, 2013
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I have no issue with inheritance. I am not what my parents left for me. In any event, this can be settled through Faraidh. If the heir agrees to part with his inheritance to those who need it more (and rightfully, in the spirit of the Quran, they must), then their share can go towards some other heir.
Regarding 4:24, i confess, i was disturbed by this, especially the commandment that men are allowed to "beat" their wives. It totally did not gel with the spirit of the Quran. I couldn't reconcile my beliefs, internal ones with this. I searched the net, and true enough, this one verse is hotly debated. The key word is idribuhanna (think i spelled it wrong). Some interpretations use the root word as a separation, a parting, like this one.
"34. Men are guardians of women, because Allah has made one superior to the other, and (also) because men spend their wealth (on them). So the pious wives are obedient. They guard (their chastity) in the absence of their husbands with the protection of Allah. But those women whom you fear will disobey and defy, admonish them; and (if they do not amend) separate them (from yourselves) in beds; and (if they still do not improve) turn away from them, striking a temporary parting. Then if they become cooperative with you, do not seek any way against them. Surely, Allah is Most High, Most Great."
I am actually disappointed. No one said a woman is not allowed to divorce her husband! Ok no one asked, but she is allowed to. It's not known as talaaq, but the al-khud, for God listened to the woman who complained.
"God has indeed heard (and accepted) the statement of the woman who pleads with thee concerning her husband and carries her complaint (in prayer) to God: and God (always) hears the arguments between both of you: for God hears and sees (all things)."
— Qur'an, Sura 58 (Al-Mujadila), ayat 1
choochoochan
SPNer
- Nov 4, 2013
- 75
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It applied to Khadijah, who was Muhammad's first wife and a prominent business woman in the area during the time.
Aisha joined in for the battles they had.
However, i will concede this one thing. A teleological approach to the quran MUST be adopted by muslims, including myself. I do not like this literal approach which confines much to the era of Muhammad.
choochoochan
SPNer
- Nov 4, 2013
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I can't believe that someone will think that Indian mutton dishes are tasty because of halaal meat.Indian mutton dishes are tasty because the way they are prepared and not because of halaal meat.Many Sikh restaurent owners are famous in India for making tasty mutton and chicken dishes and they use Jhatka meat.
Its very difficult for an average person to find the difference between halal , jhatka or western style of slaughter meat , if they are prepared in same way
Most indian stalls here use halal meat. It's rare to find mutton which is not halal unless you patronise the chinese stalls.
In any event, the indian stalls i was referring to would be the indian muslim stalls which make tonnes of mutton dishes.
Halal meat is more tender. As someone who has had simple chicken dishes, halal and non halal ones, it is evident. Anyway, the biggest thing about halal meat is that it removes (or tries at least), to remove most of the blood, which is known to carry viruses and diseases. Blood is the playground of germs.
Jhatka from what i understand, is a blow to the animal's head before it knows what hit it. A violent blow to the head, which is not allowed in the Quran.
harmanpreet singh
SPNer
- Nov 14, 2008
- 283
- 419
Hello choo ji,
May I ask why allah gave man exclusive right to beat his wife?
May I ask why allah gave man exclusive right to beat his wife?
Yes a woman can have a divorce but she has to plead before the court or judge unlike the man that can have a divorce for any reason he chooses and simply has to say ''talaak' 3 times !
The man can also have up to 4 wives but not 5 !
whereas the women can only have One.
She has to be satisfied by One only.
As for the jhatka vs halal, I've discussed this in detail on another thread and proven that halal is actually more painful and more of a torture nature than jhatka.
http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/islam/1717-is-halal-meat-scientifically-proven-right-9.html#post161839
The reasons and explanations given here are simplified from a neurologists view !
- Jan 31, 2011
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Choochji
is a violent blow to the head in a human allowed, say if they were infidels?
choochoochan
SPNer
- Nov 4, 2013
- 75
- 30
Ok. You want me to quote the verse after the one which allows the men to have 4 wives? Which talks about marrying only one because it's impossible to provide justice for for all your wives?
The issue is, you're taking away a life. I never agreed with jhatka. If you're taking a life so that your tummy be satiated, please have to courage to confront the animal. Not just level a blow to its head. The Quran also prohibits meat from hunting expeditions. Killing an animal is never for fun. You're taking a life so that you are able to eat. And if you're gonna do it, confront the animal. If you're afraid that the animal will feel pain, then don't kill it! Simple as that! Stick to dhal!
choochoochan
SPNer
- Nov 4, 2013
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- 30
- Jan 31, 2011
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seems animals have it better than infidels Choochji,
I can find that if you need.......don't worry
If you look at my first post there, I've already made that point about taking a life is taking a life, no matter if it be jhatka or halal. It's just that the halal brigade are adamant that they are doing the poor animal a favor !!
Now, you say eat dhal and are acting extremely humane and animal conscious, whereas earlier you were bragging about the halal taste !
What's all the 'turning the tables' about ??
a blow ?? or a detonated explosion ?:realangrymunda:
- Jan 31, 2011
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Choochji
I am glad that you have found a way of life that you are happy with, what happens sometimes in enthusiastic writing is that slowly the writing turns into proselytism, and those that do not share your enthusiasm may start questioning the validity of such, or indeed the intentions.
let us all get back to topic before adminji wakes up
I am glad that you have found a way of life that you are happy with, what happens sometimes in enthusiastic writing is that slowly the writing turns into proselytism, and those that do not share your enthusiasm may start questioning the validity of such, or indeed the intentions.
let us all get back to topic before adminji wakes up
- May 9, 2006
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The alislam site must have it's verses mixed up then.
Here's another site: http://www.clearquran.com/quran-chapter-004.html
Let's post verses 15 and 16 instead then:
15. Those of your women who commit lewdness, you must have four witnesses against them, from among you. If they testify, confine them to the homes until death claims them, or God makes a way for them.
16. If two men among you commit it, punish them both. But if they repent and reform, leave them alone. God is Redeemer, Full of Mercy.
Why are women placed under house arrest until they die, but the men can go free?16. If two men among you commit it, punish them both. But if they repent and reform, leave them alone. God is Redeemer, Full of Mercy.
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