riskygujjar
Banned
- Mar 9, 2013
- 95
- 9
- 35
Re: Muslims and Islam.
if u want to reason than i m ready to reason.
if u want to reason than i m ready to reason.
Islam What Do You Think Of Islam?
aristotle
SPNer
Re: Muslims and Islam.
The US law doesn't ordain for killing of polytheists or people who forsake their religion, while this verse of the Qur'an clearly calls for murder of the disbelievers. There is a wide difference between the two.
The US law doesn't ordain for killing of polytheists or people who forsake their religion, while this verse of the Qur'an clearly calls for murder of the disbelievers. There is a wide difference between the two.
techsingh
SPNer
aristotle
SPNer
Re: Muslims and Islam.
And who will decide which one is better? The people?
If it is so then there are more people in the world who believe Bible to be the 'word of God' as against those who believe in Qur'an.
Also to mention it is only the muslims who believe Qur'an was sent by God, naturally others don't believe in it.
P.S.- Please provide complete verses alongwith their location in the Qur'an whenever you want to make a reference.
And who will decide which one is better? The people?
If it is so then there are more people in the world who believe Bible to be the 'word of God' as against those who believe in Qur'an.
Also to mention it is only the muslims who believe Qur'an was sent by God, naturally others don't believe in it.
P.S.- Please provide complete verses alongwith their location in the Qur'an whenever you want to make a reference.
riskygujjar
Banned
- Mar 9, 2013
- 95
- 9
- 35
Re: Muslims and Islam.
hyprocites?
a person who pretend to be something which he is not.
disbelievers who pretend to be muslims while they were not.
treachery in us law mean treachery to the country.
even in old days in armies a person who was found of treachery was giving death punishment.
a person prtending being part of the army but passing information to the enemy.
hyprocites?
a person who pretend to be something which he is not.
disbelievers who pretend to be muslims while they were not.
treachery in us law mean treachery to the country.
even in old days in armies a person who was found of treachery was giving death punishment.
a person prtending being part of the army but passing information to the enemy.
riskygujjar
Banned
- Mar 9, 2013
- 95
- 9
- 35
Re: Muslims and Islam.
i beleive in jesus and all other prophets its part of my imaan and i belive in bible and other books which were sent down to prophets of there religion.
i believe in angels and i belive in judgement day.
all these things are part of my faith?
ok that make me muslim.
other books sent down to prophets were changed by people of those prophets after their death.
and how do u think so many religions came into existence.
all wanted to be in power.
christians believe in the book of jews and and all prophets who came before jesus.
but jews dont belive in jesus as prophet or he even was born or there is a book called bible.
i beleive in jesus and all other prophets its part of my imaan and i belive in bible and other books which were sent down to prophets of there religion.
i believe in angels and i belive in judgement day.
all these things are part of my faith?
ok that make me muslim.
other books sent down to prophets were changed by people of those prophets after their death.
and how do u think so many religions came into existence.
all wanted to be in power.
christians believe in the book of jews and and all prophets who came before jesus.
but jews dont belive in jesus as prophet or he even was born or there is a book called bible.
aristotle
SPNer
Re: Muslims and Islam.
Moreover, forcing people of other religions to pay Jizya tax just shows how harsh Islam is towards other religions (I have provided a Hadith reference earlier in this regard).
Yeah that's because U.S. is a country, Islam is not a country.
Moreover, forcing people of other religions to pay Jizya tax just shows how harsh Islam is towards other religions (I have provided a Hadith reference earlier in this regard).
aristotle
SPNer
Re: Muslims and Islam.
Muslims don't believe on Bible or Torah because Qur'anic verses allege (for reasons they best know) that they were corrupted. I don't know which Bible you are talking about.
riskygujjar
Banned
- Mar 9, 2013
- 95
- 9
- 35
Re: Muslims and Islam.
corrupted.u dont believe so?
do u even know how many versions of bible are there?
and there is only one version of quran the true word of god.
bible of christians im saying.
its not like we dont belive torah or bible.
but it was changed.so so thats why we call it corrupted.
moreover the laws of the book which the god sent to the prophet of their has to be followed.
like in the time of moses torah was sent down to him.so his people followed the laws of torah.
but after his death.
when time of jesus came bible had to be followed.
i mean one had follw the book and the existing time.
so when bible was sent to jesus torah rules and regulations didnt mattered people at the time of jesus had to follw the commands given in bible
corrupted.u dont believe so?
do u even know how many versions of bible are there?
and there is only one version of quran the true word of god.
bible of christians im saying.
its not like we dont belive torah or bible.
but it was changed.so so thats why we call it corrupted.
moreover the laws of the book which the god sent to the prophet of their has to be followed.
like in the time of moses torah was sent down to him.so his people followed the laws of torah.
but after his death.
when time of jesus came bible had to be followed.
i mean one had follw the book and the existing time.
so when bible was sent to jesus torah rules and regulations didnt mattered people at the time of jesus had to follw the commands given in bible
riskygujjar
Banned
- Mar 9, 2013
- 95
- 9
- 35
Re: Muslims and Islam.
those were the amneded laws and commands.thats why u see many common things in different religions
those were the amneded laws and commands.thats why u see many common things in different religions
aristotle
SPNer
Re: Muslims and Islam.
Is there only a single translation if the Qur'an? I see multitudes of Qur'an translations are available too.
That just shows your ignorance of the Bible and Torah.
P.S.- Some verses of Qur'an were even eaten by a goat
Those versions are the different translations of the Bible aimed at different audiences, the basic manuscripts for them are largely the same and the central message of these translations is the same.
Is there only a single translation if the Qur'an? I see multitudes of Qur'an translations are available too.
That just shows your ignorance of the Bible and Torah.
P.S.- Some verses of Qur'an were even eaten by a goat
Qur'an alleges the Bible and Torah were corrupted but has no prrof of it. Claiming is one thing, proving is another(and a more difficult) thing.
The New Testament made some additions to the Old Testament laws, but didn't overturn them as a whole. Instead, Jesus and Gospel authors frequently quoted from the Old Testament in the Gospels and Epistles. Muslims don't believe in any of these laws and still 'claim' to believe in these books, I only wonder how.
riskygujjar
Banned
- Mar 9, 2013
- 95
- 9
- 35
Re: Muslims and Islam.
10 versions of the bible in the same language?
and how many versions of quran in arabic language?
if i dont know arabic surely i can get to the meaning in the translated version of quran in hindi.
but quran is recited in arabic even in namaz.not in different languages of different regions.
and one doesnt has to know the meaning of quran to get sabab(puneh)
10 versions of the bible in the same language?
and how many versions of quran in arabic language?
if i dont know arabic surely i can get to the meaning in the translated version of quran in hindi.
but quran is recited in arabic even in namaz.not in different languages of different regions.
and one doesnt has to know the meaning of quran to get sabab(puneh)
aristotle
SPNer
Re: Muslims and Islam.
If you are talking about the English versions, we have many English translations of the Qur'an too...eg. Maulawi Sher Ali translation, Pickthal translation, Sahih International translation and numerous other versions.
How is that different in case of the Qur'an then?
Well, there aren't 10 versions of the Bible in the languages in which it was originally recorded.
If you are talking about the English versions, we have many English translations of the Qur'an too...eg. Maulawi Sher Ali translation, Pickthal translation, Sahih International translation and numerous other versions.
How is that different in case of the Qur'an then?
aristotle
SPNer
Re: Muslims and Islam.
What good can parrot repititions of a book without understanding a word of it possibly do to a person?
One doesn't have to understand the Qur'an to get benefit from it?
What good can parrot repititions of a book without understanding a word of it possibly do to a person?
riskygujjar
Banned
- Mar 9, 2013
- 95
- 9
- 35
Re: Muslims and Islam.
its not possible for everyone to learn quran.to learn it takes 4-5 years for a person to learn it.he is called hafiz.
a muslim has have aleast that much knowledge of deen that he can differ halal from haram.
and he has to learn that much quran so he can offer namaz.
i m telling a really story once there was muslim he didnt know how to read quran.then what he did was he he would do wuzu opens quran and everyday pointing fingure on the ayahs keep saying allah whatever u say is true(jo tune kaha woh sab such hai).
after on this he was pardoned from his sins and given jannah.in muslim languahe allah ne ushki magfirat farma di.
a person who reads quran will get puneh and a person who sit near that person and hear his recitation will get the same puneh
its not possible for everyone to learn quran.to learn it takes 4-5 years for a person to learn it.he is called hafiz.
a muslim has have aleast that much knowledge of deen that he can differ halal from haram.
and he has to learn that much quran so he can offer namaz.
i m telling a really story once there was muslim he didnt know how to read quran.then what he did was he he would do wuzu opens quran and everyday pointing fingure on the ayahs keep saying allah whatever u say is true(jo tune kaha woh sab such hai).
after on this he was pardoned from his sins and given jannah.in muslim languahe allah ne ushki magfirat farma di.
a person who reads quran will get puneh and a person who sit near that person and hear his recitation will get the same puneh
AngloSikhPeace
SPNer
Re: Muslims and Islam.
Risky is correct to say that there have been (and still are) many variations of the Bible. This is because the Bible is composed of a large number of different books, and Christians have never agreed on which books should be regarded as legitimate parts of the Bible. These books have been written in many different languages, for example the Old Testament books have been passed down for millennia in the Hebrew language, whilst books of the New Testament are also written in languages such as Greek and Aramaic.
However I find the claims that this damages Christianity's legitimacy as religion (an argument generally put forward by Muslims) to be incorrect. If Christians claimed that the Bible was the direct word of god, then critics would have a point. However, the Christians do not believe this, instead they believe that the Bible is the inspired word, written by many different authors and guided by the holy spirit into the correct form.
--------------------------------------------------------------------
Now, whether or not the Qur'an has changed over the centuries is a very controversial debate. The orthodox view of western historians is that after Muhammad's death, several variations of the Qur'an were created. The third Caliph, Uthman, responded to this by ordering the destruction of all variant texts, and their replacement with a single properly-authorised version. This version was complete with vowel markings in order to help the newly-conquered non-Arab subjects of the expanding Caliphate read the words of the Qur'an properly. It is usually believed that this version has remained the same until the present day.
Recently however historians have begun contesting this, and arguing that the Qur'an has an origin story beyond 'Muhammad wrote it all and it's still the same today'. Chief amongst these is Patrica Crone, the author of the book Hagarism. Her theories are repeated in an easily-digestible format by Tom Holland in his book In the Shadow of the Sword. These historians argue, amongst other things, that some of the suras of the Qur'an were once separate books, which were compiled into a single document early in Islamic history, that Islam originated not in modern Mecca but considerably further north, and that the entire body of the Hadith is completely unreliable.
I must stress though that these are not mainstream opinions, they are revisionist theories (perfectly legitimate ones, not akin to Holocaust revisionism or anything) trying to start up debate and encourage 'thinking outside the box'. Hagarism has fallen out of fashion, with modern scholars encouraging a sort of compromise between taking traditional accounts at face-value like the 'orthodox' historians, and completely throwing the baby out with the bathwater like Crone. Tom Holland's recent work has revived a bit of interest in the origins of Islam, but he's not an academic, and In the Shadow of the Sword is a pop-history book at heart, not scholarly.
Really there is too little evidence from the time to properly debate and decide upon when and how the Qur'an appeared. What we do know is that it hasn't changed substantially since the 7th century, which is quite an impressive run.
Risky is correct to say that there have been (and still are) many variations of the Bible. This is because the Bible is composed of a large number of different books, and Christians have never agreed on which books should be regarded as legitimate parts of the Bible. These books have been written in many different languages, for example the Old Testament books have been passed down for millennia in the Hebrew language, whilst books of the New Testament are also written in languages such as Greek and Aramaic.
However I find the claims that this damages Christianity's legitimacy as religion (an argument generally put forward by Muslims) to be incorrect. If Christians claimed that the Bible was the direct word of god, then critics would have a point. However, the Christians do not believe this, instead they believe that the Bible is the inspired word, written by many different authors and guided by the holy spirit into the correct form.
--------------------------------------------------------------------
Now, whether or not the Qur'an has changed over the centuries is a very controversial debate. The orthodox view of western historians is that after Muhammad's death, several variations of the Qur'an were created. The third Caliph, Uthman, responded to this by ordering the destruction of all variant texts, and their replacement with a single properly-authorised version. This version was complete with vowel markings in order to help the newly-conquered non-Arab subjects of the expanding Caliphate read the words of the Qur'an properly. It is usually believed that this version has remained the same until the present day.
Recently however historians have begun contesting this, and arguing that the Qur'an has an origin story beyond 'Muhammad wrote it all and it's still the same today'. Chief amongst these is Patrica Crone, the author of the book Hagarism. Her theories are repeated in an easily-digestible format by Tom Holland in his book In the Shadow of the Sword. These historians argue, amongst other things, that some of the suras of the Qur'an were once separate books, which were compiled into a single document early in Islamic history, that Islam originated not in modern Mecca but considerably further north, and that the entire body of the Hadith is completely unreliable.
I must stress though that these are not mainstream opinions, they are revisionist theories (perfectly legitimate ones, not akin to Holocaust revisionism or anything) trying to start up debate and encourage 'thinking outside the box'. Hagarism has fallen out of fashion, with modern scholars encouraging a sort of compromise between taking traditional accounts at face-value like the 'orthodox' historians, and completely throwing the baby out with the bathwater like Crone. Tom Holland's recent work has revived a bit of interest in the origins of Islam, but he's not an academic, and In the Shadow of the Sword is a pop-history book at heart, not scholarly.
Really there is too little evidence from the time to properly debate and decide upon when and how the Qur'an appeared. What we do know is that it hasn't changed substantially since the 7th century, which is quite an impressive run.
Ikk Khalsa
SPNer
- Mar 19, 2013
- 48
- 145
Re: Muslims and Islam.
I personally couldn't debate with someone like you after reading the story of a muslim person to justify power of quran and your blind faith in it.
I personally couldn't debate with someone like you after reading the story of a muslim person to justify power of quran and your blind faith in it.
riskygujjar
Banned
- Mar 9, 2013
- 95
- 9
- 35
Re: Muslims and Islam.
before 1 and half year,i didnt know anything about my religion.not a bit.
but under some circumstances allah gave me hidayat.and started offering 5 time namaz and started learning ilm.
firstly i thought quran to be word of man.because i was getting different criticism about quran from different religions.
but in some days i got so much close to allah and he gave me so much izzat.when i was running after to do everything for raza it was like all the world was running after.and he gave mo so much izzat
before 1 and half year,i didnt know anything about my religion.not a bit.
but under some circumstances allah gave me hidayat.and started offering 5 time namaz and started learning ilm.
firstly i thought quran to be word of man.because i was getting different criticism about quran from different religions.
but in some days i got so much close to allah and he gave me so much izzat.when i was running after to do everything for raza it was like all the world was running after.and he gave mo so much izzat
riskygujjar
Banned
- Mar 9, 2013
- 95
- 9
- 35
Re: Muslims and Islam.
people hurts are blind.they dont know what true faith is.
people hurts are blind.they dont know what true faith is.
riskygujjar
Banned
- Mar 9, 2013
- 95
- 9
- 35
Re: Muslims and Islam.
human test is not only to get rid from the maya of this world but his test is also to getto know who is really god is?
human test is not only to get rid from the maya of this world but his test is also to getto know who is really god is?
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