What Responsibility Do We Have To Keep Sikhi As Guruji Intended, And Who Can Definitively Say What T

[Scarlet Pimpernel]

that is false. Infinite can not be form.

Veer Ji What is form,all that is created has been created from the formless,the formless one pervades it,the formless one contains it,so in what way is it form,infinite can be anything and everything at once.

This is my personalised view, having been informed in the general aspects of the infinite by Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji.

 

[prakash.s.bagga]

Here is the real problem.We do not understand the significance of INFINITE.Whereas Gurbanee is giving the perfect and complete knowledge of this INFINITE .ULTIMATE LORD.
We should basically understand what is INFINITE.?
Probably whatever is not approachable or realised can be considered as Infinity.Gurbanee is telling about ULTIMATE or SUPREME LORD as infinite but this does not mean that the SUPREME LORD can not be realised or appreheded. or seen by Human.
And this makes clear that the reference of ULTIMATE LORD as very first SYMBOL in SGGS is not Formless.
There are two kinds of visions
1...Vision thru knowledge.
2...thru simple sensual capabilities.

Gurbanee makes use of both the visions to know the ULTIMATE LORD as infinite in terms of Divine Word GuRoo.
Since our senses are self regulatory and can see The INFINITE with blessings of DIVINEonly.
Truth is reaveled only in the heart of surrendered soul to the ULTIMATE LORD.
That is why ABNASEE PRABHu can be realised thru the grace of GuR only..This is the most important message one should note from Gurbanee.
Prakash.S.Bagga

 

[Ambarsaria]

Veer Ji What is form ?

Please also don't answer a question with question! Asking of you to support your assertion through a Shabad in SGGS.

Sat Sri Akal peacesign

 

[Ambarsaria]

Here is the real problem.We do not understand the significance of INFINITE.Whereas Gurbanee is giving the perfect and complete knowledge of this INFINITE .ULTIMATE LORD.
Sorry PSB ji this is false. Please quote how infinite can be defined in 1430 pages and specially when Guru ji stated creator to be infinite. I do believe they understood the definition of infinity.

We should basically understand what is INFINITE.?
Nope as many sabad warn that you can spend all the time doing everything humanly possible and will not completely understand or transcribe infinite, makes sense to me. Where are you coming from? Shabad with explanation please.

Probably whatever is not approachable or realised can be considered as Infinity.Gurbanee is telling about ULTIMATE or SUPREME LORD as infinite but this does not mean that the SUPREME LORD can not be realised or appreheded. or seen by Human.
Sorry brother that is exactly Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji shows to be the case. That is, "SUPREME LORD can not be realised or appreheded. or seen by Human".

And this makes clear that the reference of ULTIMATE L
There are two kinds of visionsORD as very first SYMBOL in Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji is not Formless.
1...Vision thru knowledge.
2...thru simple sensual capabilities.

Gurbanee makes use of both the visions to know the ULTIMATE LORD as infinite in terms of Divine Word GuRoo.
Infinite creator does not imply a defineable creator. You are wrong.

Since our senses are self regulatory and can see The INFINITE with blessings of DIVINEonly.
Sorry we can have ideas but those are ideas only. No one can test your ideas to be true as Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji again attests that one has to be one to know one and one cannot be.

Truth is reaveled only in the heart of surrendered soul to the ULTIMATE LORD.
No surrendedr is required but 24/7 awarenes.

That is why ABNASEE PRABHu can be realised thru the grace of GuR only
Hocus pocus as Abhnasees Prabhu cannot be reference to the creator as creator is referenced as infinite. You cannot put infinite in a visual box, you can give it a name with qualities undefined as it has to be infinite.

..This is the most important message one should note from Gurbanee.
Sorry it appears you have not even recognized the essence of Mool Mantar based on your statements.

Prakash.S.Bagga

Sorry to state the differences as clearly as I could.

I am open to comments and corrections.

With due respect brother, you appear very lost in some wisdom non Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji.

Sat Sri Akal.

 

[prakash.s.bagga]

Sorry to state the differences as clearly as I could.

I am open to comments and corrections.

With due respect brother, you appear very lost in some wisdom non Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji.

Sat Sri Akal.

In the present situation there is no scope of correction.Our approach seems to be diamatically opposite.So there can be no further interaction on this.
Prakash.S.Bagga

 

[Ambarsaria]

In the present situation there is no scope of correction.Our approach seems to be diamatically opposite.So there can be no further interaction on this.
Prakash.S.Bagga

Veer prakash.s.bagga ji I was not expecting nor would I wait. This is normal approach by your good self many times over. As rarely have you written more than a paragraph without making gross errors while pretending to know it all. When challenged or commented upon you raise some kind of superlative technicality, etc., to set yourself aside.

Please next time you give one liners as guidance to everyone in words (Gur GURu Guroo, Ekankar etc. etc.) and other contortions as to be some kind of centric to understanding, ensure that you are capable of sharing yourself or willing to contribute in return.

It is so sad. I don't pretend to know it all or know more than others but I share what I understand.

You go your ways and I go mine. So before challenging next time think what will you contribute as party of interest other than a set aside. Utter shame for all involved I experience in such interactions.

Sat Sri Akal.

PS: It is not the approach at issue, it is the content. You as an Engineer are trying to put infinity into a Prabhu Box, it ain't going to work brother as long as I am on this forum and capable to respond based on SGGS where time and again the futility of so doing is stated.

 

[prakash.s.bagga]

AMBARSARIA Ji,
It is all approach that ultimately matters.
What is refered in Gurbanee as INFINITE I undertand this as REAL and EVER EXISTING.
Even in science I think we all know that infinite is a REAL Number .not something imaginary.
If you consider the INFINITE in Gurbanee as something IMAGINATIONonly, I can probably agree to what you say without any ifs and buts..
So our GuRu is telling about this REAL and EXisting INFINITE that is to be known thru the word GuRoo.If one does not agree then no solution to that.
That is why one is required to read SGGS again and again to get to know the gist of what GuRu is actually saying.
I can simply put my own observations.Not necesarily to be accepted as I may be wrong too.
Prakash.S.Bagga

 

[Ambarsaria]

AMBARSARIA Ji,
It is all approach that ultimately matters.
What is refered in Gurbanee as INFINITE I undertand this as REAL and EVER EXISTING.
Even in science I think we all know that infinite is a REAL Number .not something imaginary.Prakash.S.Bagga

Prakash.S.Bagga veer ji once you complete writing the Infinite number (not the infinity symbol), let me know and I will kiss your feet and forever shut up.

Let me help you,

Say Infinity = 1/0 = 99999999999999999999999999 ............................ sorry I am tired cannot write anymore as this will never end , please contibnue and let me know when you are finished, and I promise to add more and prove you could not possibly have finished, and so on

So creator infinite dimensional and infinite in each dimension is not possible to be written down or described

You can try, pretend and believe but it will all be incomplete hence false.

This interpretation of infinity and creator is part of Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji.

So just as you riddle me, I want you, with great respect and belief (I believe you have read Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji more than once) to do all a favor. Please tfor spn members and post couple of sabads on couple of possible of the infinite virtues of the creator illustrated in Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji and show how such places state that the virtue under consideration can not be fully defined other than as a class, like in words of Mool Mantar.
​

Sat Sri Akal.

 

[prakash.s.bagga]

Prakash.S.Bagga veer ji once you complete writing the Infinite number (not the infinity symbol), let me know and I will kiss your feet and forever shut up.

Let me help you,

Say Infinity = 1/0 = 99999999999999999999999999 ............................ sorry I am tired cannot write anymore as this will never end , please contibnue and let me know when you are finished, and I promise to add more and prove you could not possibly have finished, and so on

You can try, pretend and believe but it will all be incomplete hence false.​

This interpretation of infinity and creator is part of Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji.​

So just as you riddle me, I want you, with great respect and belief (I believe you have read Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji more than once) to do all a favor. Please tfor spn members and post couple of sabads on couple of possible of the infinite virtues of the creator illustrated in Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji and show how such places state that the virtue under consideration can not be fully defined other than as a class, like in words of Mool Mantar.​

Sat Sri Akal.

One is not required to write infinite.One is required to understand infinite.
How infinite can be understood this is important. Any infinite can be understood thru its finite dimension only.
This is a matter of approach.One believes in writing of infinite and other may believe in understanding of finite.I think latter is more important.
Prakash.S.Bagga

 

[Ambarsaria]

One is not required to write infinite.One is required to understand infinite.
How infinite can be understood this is important. Any infinite can be understood thru its finite dimension only.
This is a matter of approach.One believes in writing of infinite and other may believe in understanding of finite.I think latter is more important.
Prakash.S.Bagga

Prakash S.Bagga ji just baloney. You don't understand what infinity stands for in any concept of Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji. There are incredibly large and consistent references to the essence of "it cannot be ascribed or fully understood or defined".

Sorry to be in your face. Study and then come back and please don't just mis-lead. Perhaps get rid of the Geeta, Veda cluttered information in your head first.

Sat Sri Akal.

 

[Kanwaljit.Singh]

1/0 is technically undefined because anything multiplied with zero will give zero. Some hypothetical number multiplied by zero giving one as answer is impossible. Either that or the notion of zero is actually impossible.

Infinity is something never ending. Another concept in Math.

 

[Ambarsaria]

1/0 is technically undefined because anything multiplied with zero will give zero. Some hypothetical number multiplied by zero giving one as answer is impossible. Either that or the notion of zero is actually impossible.

Infinity is something never ending. Another concept in Math.

Kanwaljit Singh veer ji I understand the concept of Infinity and it is referenced a lot in SGGS as to the virtues and qualities of the creator. Prakash.S.Bagga ji somehow tries against what is stated in SGGS and make things definitive in a box form, and call it as of form, fully describable and definable Prabhu or such. That is basically denying what SGGS and Guru ji's say.

Sat Sri Akal.

 

[Seeker9]

Doesn't Japji Sahib establish at the outset that mortals cannot comprehend Ik Onkar through purely intellectual means no matter how hard they try??

 

[Ambarsaria]

Doesn't Japji Sahib establish at the outset that mortals cannot comprehend Ik Onkar through purely intellectual means no matter how hard they try??

Veer it is in so many places that it is incredible that such people claim not to see. I don't want to judge, but this is a frontal attack on SGGS and I try to respond as much as I can. Lot of these people are up to no good from Sikhism perspective. Sorry to be so blunt.

Our educational institutions, katha vachiks, raagis shift with the winds of the times. We all know which way those winds are blowing right now. Put people in Dehras, towards Babeys, etc., and away from SGGS.

The leadership has reached a very high level of incompetence and deviance. If Sikhism has deep roots, such will get their day in court sooner or later.

Sat Sri Akal.

 

[BhagatSingh]

Recognize Form and Formless to be one and the same.

 

[Luckysingh]

Doesn't Japji Sahib establish at the outset that mortals cannot comprehend Ik Onkar through purely intellectual means no matter how hard they try??

We need say no more:

Ek Onkar is what the complete Guru Granth Sahib is based on. Sikhism,existence, truth, eternity, infinity, All beyond is all Ek Onkar.


Even before the universe, before the planets, before any man, any creation.
The truth was Ek Onkar.
Before, Now, After..... Will ALWAYS be Ek Onkar.

The answer to infintiy's boundaries can only be Ek Onkar. Infact all answers come from Ek Onkar.


Ek Onkar Satnaam
Lucky Singh

 

[Ambarsaria]

Recognize Form and Formless to be one and the same.

Sorry Bhagat Singh veer, you cannot have your cake and eat it too. Try it lol.

It did not work with the cheese cake piece (form) I had today. Once the form was gone, there was nothing left (formless) to eat! Tomorrow morning another form will come out from behind and I wish it was formless so I did not have to clean the place where sun don't shine. May be I need to be on diet to experince what you are saying!

Let us not play on words as then there is nothing to understand or learn other tha to close the eyes and look for dasam dwar in the darkness.

Sat Sri Akal.

 

[BhagatSingh]

Ambarsaria Veerji,
I bought a cake, ate it, then had it for a while, then excreted poop. The form was never gone it was placed in my digestive tract only to be transformed. Anyways, you do not get to formless by taking away form. You get to the formless by seeing the form in its entirety in the deepest way with full alertness (ਧਿਆਨ). The distinction between form and formless is an illusion. When the mind sees that distinction it is operating in duality. If only for a second, step out of the field of duality, and see/know form and formless to be one thing.

Page 163, Line 8
ਸਿਵਿ ਸਕਤਿ ਮਿਟਾਈਆ ਚੂਕਾ ਅੰਧਿਆਰਾ ॥
सिवि सकति मिटाईआ चूका अंधिआरा ॥
Siv sakaṯ mitā▫ī▫ā cẖūkā anḏẖi▫ārā.
The distinction between Shiva and Shakti - mind (observer/formless) and matter (object/form)- has been destroyed, and the darkness has been dispelled.
Guru Amar Das - view Shabad/Paurhi/Salok

 

[Harry Haller]

My own two penth

Creator is Infinite and can never be measured or understood, all we have is the tiny essence, the tiny droplet in our heads to get an idea of Creator,. All we have is 1/0, and that can be useful in calculations, to get to the answers, but if the answer is ever ∞, then we will never be able to fully realise what this means, in maths, in life,

To say Creator has form, is to say that essence of Creator has form, is to say that you can get an idea of what exists in the Oceans, the fish, the sharks, the life, the whales, from one tiny drop in a test tube

 

[Luckysingh]

It depends how you look at it, form and formless can be the same in a certain way AND not the same in another way.

Lets say a man goes salmon fishing (very popular here in Vancouver). Let's just consider a single fish, that swims around freely, living with the constant need for water.

When the man catches it, the fish still has this need for water. But, due to the consequences of the man's actions keeping it out of the water, the fish struggles,flapping away,distraught, as it has this urgent need for water.
Soon, it's life is over and it is dead.

Now, the man takes it home, washes it, then cuts it up carefully into small pieces ready to cook.
The fish is now formless as it is dead and cut up into dozens of pieces.
It is cooked and served on a plate for his evening meal.

He consumes it all and enjoys the meal. As he goes fishing and eats fish often, he knows what will happen in the night during sleep.

He will be woken up thirsty with a need for water........ Even though the fish was all cut up, still in its formless state inside the man, it still urges the NEED for WATER!!

Form and formless can be seen as the same in this sense.



Waheguru