BhagatSingh
SPNer
- Apr 24, 2006
- 2,921
- 1,657
No in other words, same as the other Gurus.
Who Is The Present Guru Of The Sikhs?
Please tell me, what you mean by this. I am not as smart to figure it out myself, so please tell me.
Sab Sikhan ko hukam hai guru maniyo granth.
the above is elf explanatory. does it clarify your doubts about who is the guru?
Satwant
Sab Sikhan ko hukam hai guru maniyo granth.
the above is self explanatory. does it clarify your doubts about who is the guru?
Satwant
Archived_Member5
(previously jeetijohal, account deactivated at her
The Guru Granth sahib bases its stipulations and teaching on each man conquering his own mind and becoming his own Lord, Master and God. Of his home, hearth and brethren and community. Mans ability to be guide his own brethren by the laws and tenets of the sacred Adi Granth is his life’s vocation. Bindranwale was a precious hero alas destroyed, partly by fellow enviers disallowing any any siuch rising of a living Guru in our midst, and mostly by the external enemy equally jealous of such greatness born in any other culture or creed than its own. It is the sin nature inherent in politics that would not allow the presence of such a Guru. The Babaji of the Rhadoswami faith is highly respected across the world, a veritable Pope and light of inspiration for many. Alas this cult has divided Sikhism and holds 70% of the Sikh population in its fellowship, based solely on the love for its Godhead and Guru. Unfortunately to the decline of traditions Sikhism. Religions blessed with Godheads, Spiritual Leaders and upholders of their faith tend to flourish depending and being reliant upon the Mastery and Lordship of such an arisen soul. The book, a strong social, community and family ethos will contribute to the economic, spiritual and moral strength of the Sikh community. If such a noble Lord of Wisdom arises we gladly kneel, in the absence of such a one, we look to our Fathers, Brothers and Sons for guidance and protection whilst serving their interest with honour and happy hearts.
Any religion is as efficient as its adherents and Gianni. I have a deep respect and understanding for all faiths, and a reverential Love and regard for the faith of the Fathers. It is this devotional and inspired Love prospering man, family, society, faith, religion and nation. Administered by the hand of wisdom and peace, Love suffices ...
Waheguru Ji ka Khalsa, Waheguru Ji ki Fateh ...
Any religion is as efficient as its adherents and Gianni. I have a deep respect and understanding for all faiths, and a reverential Love and regard for the faith of the Fathers. It is this devotional and inspired Love prospering man, family, society, faith, religion and nation. Administered by the hand of wisdom and peace, Love suffices ...
Waheguru Ji ka Khalsa, Waheguru Ji ki Fateh ...
- Jun 1, 2008
- 183
- 13
Sat shri akal,
sorry but ur post has nothing to do with the question being raised.
the question is who is the present sikh Guru .
some of us think that Guru granth sahib and panth khalsa collectively is the sikh Guru on the other hand some hold Shri Guru granth sahib to be our only and exclusive Guru. ur requested to share ur views.
anyways
sorry but ur post has nothing to do with the question being raised.
the question is who is the present sikh Guru .
some of us think that Guru granth sahib and panth khalsa collectively is the sikh Guru on the other hand some hold Shri Guru granth sahib to be our only and exclusive Guru. ur requested to share ur views.
anyways
sounds funny:}{}{}:
religions r efficient because of their philosophy and the way they deal with earthly problems,clear the doubts of ones mind .:advocate:
Archived_Member5
(previously jeetijohal, account deactivated at her
religions r efficient because of their philosophy and the way they deal with earthly problems,clear the doubts of ones mind .:advocate:
I disagree. Philosophies are all particles of an absolute truth and only as workable as the adherent and administrators of its agenda and ideal. The question was fully answered The Guru Granth Sahib is the living word of Waheguru Ji. Should such a noble Lord arise who is able to define concisely and communicate effectively its sound tenets then we shall all adore him as a Guru. All philosophies and religions are fundamentally sound. It is rather false and selfish interpretation that misleads and defames by the deceiving ...
I disagree. Philosophies are all particles of an absolute truth and only as workable as the adherent and administrators of its agenda and ideal. The question was fully answered The Guru Granth Sahib is the living word of Waheguru Ji. Should such a noble Lord arise who is able to define concisely and communicate effectively its sound tenets then we shall all adore him as a Guru. All philosophies and religions are fundamentally sound. It is rather false and selfish interpretation that misleads and defames by the deceiving ...
Archived_Member5
(previously jeetijohal, account deactivated at her
Furthermore until you, sir, are able to coordinate unity and a collective panth, it remains abysmally divided and factioned. In matters of cast, faith and belief, your premise and point is flawed.
- Jun 1, 2008
- 183
- 13
Sat shri akal,
Philosophy when brought to practical use is called religion but it may not always be that philosophy turns 100% to religion some errors come from outside us and some from inside us others when religions become traditions.
and i thought it had mortal authors
At the end it is not we who do such things but it comes as a reaction to the thoughts of society and traditions .
Archived_Member5
(previously jeetijohal, account deactivated at her
If there were a free living Guru the media against all such portal and vestibules of power having co requirement of their marketing services or generating any profit production for the media, would invariably destroy such a supreme being. That is the sad truth.
Remedy, we must unite as a faith, then as countrymen and then as citizens of the worlds. At a time most struggle to remain on good terms with family, suffer to provide in an alien societal culture and peoples, an enemy within and without harbouring hopes of a collective unit seem at times, hopeless. It requires one such luminary of unilateral sense and wisdom to bring all nations together as one, without necessitating the relinquishing of personal and cultural identity. It is perfectly possible and feasible one barriers and obstacle are acknowledged and removed.
Bindranwalle was murdered in the Punjab, David Kosher in Waco, America giving rise to the ruthless desire of all present powers to destroy Messiah's and their cult following at point of onset. It is tragic, to be a spiritual leader without teaching the overcoming of tyrannical and evil regimes is to be naive and blinkered. Love is the solution, born of understanding and kinship, pride in ones culture and an understanding of all others and their right to be as proud.
Sikhi is as powerful within Punjab and the word and actions of its proponents as each individual. We all strive to maintain this proud tradition in a modern environment seeking to destroy all religions and bind mankind to the wickedness of media hedonism and debauchery. Remaining integrated whilst being single mindedly of one determination and code of moral honour is mans task and role in life before we can expect the rise of any such a Supreme Lord and Lambhardar. Peace to you ....
Archived_Member5
(previously jeetijohal, account deactivated at her
It requires greatness to create greatness, and greatness to let greatness be.
This means the great thinkers, philosophers and saints were adored and worshipped by the great minds of the time but ignored or derided by lesser intermediary folks, having neither the courage to be humbly supplicated, or the moral authority and supreme consciousness to openly adore and pledge allegiance.
We witness time and again this instance occasioning in all faiths and cultures across the board, sad to find it so prevalent in our own. True Sikhs accord all respect as it is so inspired and accorded duly. We are all too mindful of the age of Kalyug and spiritual ignorance where the bleeding souls are silent, and paap finds voice within the hearts of angered or hatreful ....
To those who believe that Sri Guru Granth Sahib Maharaj and the khalsa are equal as Guru. To those who believe that Sri Gobind Singh Patasha intended that his khalsa be seen as equal to the Granth Sahib, I say this:
Do you then behold your guru? Is it a reflection of yourself? Who of them is guru? Who of them is khalsa?
You want to recall the glorious period of contemporary Sikh history, try the origins of the Shiromani Gurdwara Prabandhak Committee (SGPC). A child of the Gurdwara Reform Movement and an example of what positive resistance and a return to the roots struggle can achieve, the setting up of the SGPC is a lesson on how a minority can save its identity, freedom and institutions with a simple tactic: just plain honest sense of purpose and leadership.
You want to study how not to run an institution, how institutionalizing administration of the affairs of a minority can lead to worse ways of control and muzzling of ideas, and how institutions that go haywire can wreck even the most glorious of legacies, study the way the SGPC is being run for the last few years. Pay particular attention to who gets to call the shots and why, and how the men and women tasked with managing its affairs are selected/elected, and you would have a study in contrast.
One of the most respected and widely accepted body of the Sikhs, basically a premier Sikh gurdwara management panel but whose role over the years has far outgrown its stated objectives, represents today a pathetic picture of what a good institution could have been.
To just start pointing out the aberrations, so far even the name Shiromani Gurdwara Prabandhak Committee needs to be clarified. Legal records of the SGPC itself are run in the name of a central board.
Elections to the SGPC General House, comprising some 185 members, are conducted with the help of a government panel called Gurdara Election Commission, and so far only the Akali Dal has fought these elections on its party symbol. For many years now, the party led by Parkash Singh Badal and now his son Sukhbir Singh Badal, thanks to the clout it enjoys in terms of political reach, money, muscle power and the killer instinct, has been winning most seats.
Such is the cult of personality in the Akali Dal, and the same has permeated to such an extent into the SGPC culture, that all major decisions are almost a family matter for the Badals.
Elections to the top office posts of the SGPC are organized every year, and members of the general house elect the SGPC president and other office bearers. By now, the Sikhs know well that basically the Badals select a man, send a slip of paper in an envelope that is opened right on the spot and a usual cry of Bole So Nihal follows. This becomes the choice of the Panth.
It is immediately followed by the chosen one thanking the Badal family members, the SGPC members, the sangat and the Akal Purakh, very often in that order.
It was no different this time. It wasn't expected to be.
But the fact that a Sikh organization in times of crisis for the community, and with a budget of Rs 400 crores and hundreds of gurdwaras, educational institutions, social forums, hospitals and inestimable real estate resources, men and money power, simply sits on it all and exploits the resources for the benefit of the Akali Dal and its top brass, has been perturbing the Sikhs for a long time now.
With Rs 400 crore budget, and wide cceptability as a representative organisation of the Sikh community, the Shiromani Gurdwara rabandhak Committee was custom-made to not just represent but advance the religion, and take it through the labyrinths of a discourse with modernity. Instead, the SGPC today is a handmaiden of just one family, a bunch of power-hungry people and is manned either by the irreligious or the unscruplous. Complete lack of democracy and good governance practices have now reduced it to real madhouse. No wonder, those who man it take pride in calling it a Mini Parliament. In reality, it is as badly run as the Indian Parliament.
The challenges facing the community are many, and tough. Apart from the daily quibbles over Maryada, there have been partisan and bitter debates on on the subject of Dasam Granth, All India Sikh Gurdwara Act, status of Takht Sahibans, appointments of top clergy, issues of resource distribution between Punjab, Haryana and Himachal Pradesh, an increasingly widespread tendency at apostasy, the culture of derawad, the issues of place of priestly class in Sikh society, the role of missionary colleges and seminaris, and sundry other matters.
Stepping back from such issues, there are larger issues of the Sikh community's interface with the neo-liberal economy's realities that affects the religion and its administration in interesting ways.
The issue of virtually every village in Punjab having separate gurdwaras, the prevalence of caste as a construct within the Sikh society, the increasing distance between the Sikhs and the Dalits, the poor handling of the trouble caused by Sirsa dera's fraudster sadh and the affect it has been having on Sikh-Dalit relationship, are all issues that one would have thought would come in for serious discussion within the SGPC.
Instead, we are treated every year to the sorry spectacle of the SGPC leaders assuring us that the affairs of the religious body are being run "exactly as per the wishes of the Akali Dal leadership." This year, Avtar Singh Makkar, propped up as the leader of the urban Sikhs, a non-Jat, and a spineless man to boot, educated us that the SGPC affairs have always been decided by the Akali Dal leadership and even asked the reporters, "Why do you have any doubt about it?" No one had any doubts, but Makkar will go down in history as the man who spoke the shameless truth with a straight face without flinching.
That is a better achievement than any Tohra.
The Diaspora Sikhs will do well to just compare the functioning of the SGPC to the way they have been trying to run their community affairs. The new team at Surrey is working on how to involve youth and children in community activities. It is seeing education as a way out. The Fremont Sahib gurdwara team is working on how to pull out the gurdwara administration from huge debts and integrate the sangat into the day to day functioning of the community life in gurdwaras. The El Sobrante gurdwara is paying attention to the growing role of the community and thus trying to add infrastructure to the gurdwara while trying to take along the local residents.
As all of this happens, the SGPC takes a cautious decision that suits the Badals: stay away from the Guruta Gaddi celebrations since the Badals' write may not run all over. So it just makes a token presence, then walks away. When the Sikhs the world over were fully immersed in religiosity and a great chance was there to ensure that the issue of education could be brought to the heart of all community debate, the SGPC simply decides to squander it all away.
The continuous effort to keep Bibi Jagir Kaur near the power center of the Akali Dal and the SGPC is also questionable considering the charges she is facing in courts of law, and her perceived role in the murky affair of the death of her own daughter. Even Cherie Blair had to blush, but not the Akali leadership.
Mismanagement and malfeasance in the SGPC has been spoken of ad nauseum by now. Sometime back, there was renewed talk in some circles about underlining the need for structural and organizational changes but the machinations of the Badals have taken the force out of the sails of such a revolution.
Now we have a situation where the Akali Dal president Sukhbir Singh Badal announces from any available stage that his party is fielding four candidates for the Delhi Assembly elections and two of them will be fighting on BJP symbols. "Earlier, all were fighting on BJP tickets but this time two will fight on the Akali Dal's own symbol," he said.
Next time, you don't even have to make an allegation that the Akali Dal is in league with the RSS. Just quote Sukhbir Singh Badal. The novices are candid, though due to stunted intellectual growth.
Surely, if there is nothing wrong with the Akali Dal candidates fighting on BJP symbol, there can;t be much wrong with BJP candidates fighting on Akali Dal symbol. What now is the hassle for any BJP member to fight elections to the SGPC under an Akali Dal symbol?
And where goes the authority of Akal Takht amid all this debate when we all know who calls the shots? No one family, no matter how powerful, can appropriate to itself the entire decision making for the community. It is time the community talks back, reacts back, and takes its affairs into its own hands. Otherwise “Koorr Phire Pardhan Ve Lalo”.
One of the most definitive ways in which the lack of democracy and accountability gets underlined is the way the budget making exercise of the SGPC takes place. The Rs 400 crore budget is transcribed in four thick volumes, made almost unreadable thanks to the talent of the drafting team. Then it is presented before the general house and in less than a minute, someone belts out the war cry of "Bole So Nihal." As "Sat Sri Akal" echoes around the Teja Singh Samundri Hall, the budget is declared passed.
How would have the mahant system been worse than this?
When was the last time you heard a discussion in the SGPC about how to cleanse the system, how to formulate norms about who can be a member, how to end politicization of the religious affairs body? Or how to make budgeting procedures more transparent by opening ways of reviewing and auditing of the budget?
The Sikh Nation must get its act together to pull the SGPC from the morass it has slipped into. Every gurdwara, every forum of the Sikhs should be debating the issue in its weekly gatherings. We need seminars, workshops, debates on how to save the SGPC. It is not about the Badals or the Makkars, it is about us.
26 November 2008
Do you then behold your guru? Is it a reflection of yourself? Who of them is guru? Who of them is khalsa?
Mangling the religion
Sach Kanwal Singh - World Sikh News
How The Mini Parliament Of The Sikhs Has Been Hijacked By Vested Interests. This Special Report takes a macro look at the entire gamut of functioning of the SGPC and brings out what is wrong. It argues for a thorough engagement at all levels to save the institution from those manning it
You want to recall the glorious period of contemporary Sikh history, try the origins of the Shiromani Gurdwara Prabandhak Committee (SGPC). A child of the Gurdwara Reform Movement and an example of what positive resistance and a return to the roots struggle can achieve, the setting up of the SGPC is a lesson on how a minority can save its identity, freedom and institutions with a simple tactic: just plain honest sense of purpose and leadership.
You want to study how not to run an institution, how institutionalizing administration of the affairs of a minority can lead to worse ways of control and muzzling of ideas, and how institutions that go haywire can wreck even the most glorious of legacies, study the way the SGPC is being run for the last few years. Pay particular attention to who gets to call the shots and why, and how the men and women tasked with managing its affairs are selected/elected, and you would have a study in contrast.
One of the most respected and widely accepted body of the Sikhs, basically a premier Sikh gurdwara management panel but whose role over the years has far outgrown its stated objectives, represents today a pathetic picture of what a good institution could have been.
To just start pointing out the aberrations, so far even the name Shiromani Gurdwara Prabandhak Committee needs to be clarified. Legal records of the SGPC itself are run in the name of a central board.
Elections to the SGPC General House, comprising some 185 members, are conducted with the help of a government panel called Gurdara Election Commission, and so far only the Akali Dal has fought these elections on its party symbol. For many years now, the party led by Parkash Singh Badal and now his son Sukhbir Singh Badal, thanks to the clout it enjoys in terms of political reach, money, muscle power and the killer instinct, has been winning most seats.
Such is the cult of personality in the Akali Dal, and the same has permeated to such an extent into the SGPC culture, that all major decisions are almost a family matter for the Badals.
Elections to the top office posts of the SGPC are organized every year, and members of the general house elect the SGPC president and other office bearers. By now, the Sikhs know well that basically the Badals select a man, send a slip of paper in an envelope that is opened right on the spot and a usual cry of Bole So Nihal follows. This becomes the choice of the Panth.
It is immediately followed by the chosen one thanking the Badal family members, the SGPC members, the sangat and the Akal Purakh, very often in that order.
It was no different this time. It wasn't expected to be.
But the fact that a Sikh organization in times of crisis for the community, and with a budget of Rs 400 crores and hundreds of gurdwaras, educational institutions, social forums, hospitals and inestimable real estate resources, men and money power, simply sits on it all and exploits the resources for the benefit of the Akali Dal and its top brass, has been perturbing the Sikhs for a long time now.
With Rs 400 crore budget, and wide cceptability as a representative organisation of the Sikh community, the Shiromani Gurdwara rabandhak Committee was custom-made to not just represent but advance the religion, and take it through the labyrinths of a discourse with modernity. Instead, the SGPC today is a handmaiden of just one family, a bunch of power-hungry people and is manned either by the irreligious or the unscruplous. Complete lack of democracy and good governance practices have now reduced it to real madhouse. No wonder, those who man it take pride in calling it a Mini Parliament. In reality, it is as badly run as the Indian Parliament.
The challenges facing the community are many, and tough. Apart from the daily quibbles over Maryada, there have been partisan and bitter debates on on the subject of Dasam Granth, All India Sikh Gurdwara Act, status of Takht Sahibans, appointments of top clergy, issues of resource distribution between Punjab, Haryana and Himachal Pradesh, an increasingly widespread tendency at apostasy, the culture of derawad, the issues of place of priestly class in Sikh society, the role of missionary colleges and seminaris, and sundry other matters.
Stepping back from such issues, there are larger issues of the Sikh community's interface with the neo-liberal economy's realities that affects the religion and its administration in interesting ways.
The issue of virtually every village in Punjab having separate gurdwaras, the prevalence of caste as a construct within the Sikh society, the increasing distance between the Sikhs and the Dalits, the poor handling of the trouble caused by Sirsa dera's fraudster sadh and the affect it has been having on Sikh-Dalit relationship, are all issues that one would have thought would come in for serious discussion within the SGPC.
Instead, we are treated every year to the sorry spectacle of the SGPC leaders assuring us that the affairs of the religious body are being run "exactly as per the wishes of the Akali Dal leadership." This year, Avtar Singh Makkar, propped up as the leader of the urban Sikhs, a non-Jat, and a spineless man to boot, educated us that the SGPC affairs have always been decided by the Akali Dal leadership and even asked the reporters, "Why do you have any doubt about it?" No one had any doubts, but Makkar will go down in history as the man who spoke the shameless truth with a straight face without flinching.
That is a better achievement than any Tohra.
The Diaspora Sikhs will do well to just compare the functioning of the SGPC to the way they have been trying to run their community affairs. The new team at Surrey is working on how to involve youth and children in community activities. It is seeing education as a way out. The Fremont Sahib gurdwara team is working on how to pull out the gurdwara administration from huge debts and integrate the sangat into the day to day functioning of the community life in gurdwaras. The El Sobrante gurdwara is paying attention to the growing role of the community and thus trying to add infrastructure to the gurdwara while trying to take along the local residents.
As all of this happens, the SGPC takes a cautious decision that suits the Badals: stay away from the Guruta Gaddi celebrations since the Badals' write may not run all over. So it just makes a token presence, then walks away. When the Sikhs the world over were fully immersed in religiosity and a great chance was there to ensure that the issue of education could be brought to the heart of all community debate, the SGPC simply decides to squander it all away.
The continuous effort to keep Bibi Jagir Kaur near the power center of the Akali Dal and the SGPC is also questionable considering the charges she is facing in courts of law, and her perceived role in the murky affair of the death of her own daughter. Even Cherie Blair had to blush, but not the Akali leadership.
Mismanagement and malfeasance in the SGPC has been spoken of ad nauseum by now. Sometime back, there was renewed talk in some circles about underlining the need for structural and organizational changes but the machinations of the Badals have taken the force out of the sails of such a revolution.
Now we have a situation where the Akali Dal president Sukhbir Singh Badal announces from any available stage that his party is fielding four candidates for the Delhi Assembly elections and two of them will be fighting on BJP symbols. "Earlier, all were fighting on BJP tickets but this time two will fight on the Akali Dal's own symbol," he said.
Next time, you don't even have to make an allegation that the Akali Dal is in league with the RSS. Just quote Sukhbir Singh Badal. The novices are candid, though due to stunted intellectual growth.
Surely, if there is nothing wrong with the Akali Dal candidates fighting on BJP symbol, there can;t be much wrong with BJP candidates fighting on Akali Dal symbol. What now is the hassle for any BJP member to fight elections to the SGPC under an Akali Dal symbol?
And where goes the authority of Akal Takht amid all this debate when we all know who calls the shots? No one family, no matter how powerful, can appropriate to itself the entire decision making for the community. It is time the community talks back, reacts back, and takes its affairs into its own hands. Otherwise “Koorr Phire Pardhan Ve Lalo”.
One of the most definitive ways in which the lack of democracy and accountability gets underlined is the way the budget making exercise of the SGPC takes place. The Rs 400 crore budget is transcribed in four thick volumes, made almost unreadable thanks to the talent of the drafting team. Then it is presented before the general house and in less than a minute, someone belts out the war cry of "Bole So Nihal." As "Sat Sri Akal" echoes around the Teja Singh Samundri Hall, the budget is declared passed.
How would have the mahant system been worse than this?
When was the last time you heard a discussion in the SGPC about how to cleanse the system, how to formulate norms about who can be a member, how to end politicization of the religious affairs body? Or how to make budgeting procedures more transparent by opening ways of reviewing and auditing of the budget?
The Sikh Nation must get its act together to pull the SGPC from the morass it has slipped into. Every gurdwara, every forum of the Sikhs should be debating the issue in its weekly gatherings. We need seminars, workshops, debates on how to save the SGPC. It is not about the Badals or the Makkars, it is about us.
26 November 2008
Who is Gursikh? Who is trapped in Maya?
AMRITSAR: If it has happened umpteen times in the past, could it be news? Well, it is news so long as we keep missing the gravity of it all. In a complete go by to the last vestiges of democratic norms, Punjab’s ruling Akali Dal which enjoys brute majority in the SGPC asked its recently-baptized president Sukhbir Singh Badal to choose a president for the Mini Parliament of the Sikhs.
Shamelessly, he did. Instead of raising the traditions of consultations, debate, democratic discourse and freedom of choice, Sukhbir simply went ahead and chose not just the president but each of the office bearers.
When Avtar Singh Makkar had become president for the first time, a leading English daily in Punjab had written that Falstaff had become the president. Now, Falstaff seemed to be entrenched in the tragi-comic drama that the annual SGPC election has become.
Moments after his election, Makkar The Falstaff had a gift wrapped for the community which he was quick to reveal: No memorial for the victims and martyrs of Operation Bluestar, he has not even heard of the resolution passed by the SGPC, and said there was no such move.
At a time when the Surrey sangat has demonstrated its resolve to prepare the next generation for governance of gurdwaras and move ahead beyond the luggage of history and divisiveness, Punjab’s Akalis are moving in the reverse direction.
All power is being concentrated within one family’s fold, and those within the system have made their peace with the little slice of power and pelf that the Family has thrown their way.
So there were no discordant voices and no one claimed that the right to free election has been virtually taken away as Avtar Singh Makkar was nominated (yes, nominated) as the president of the SGPC for the fourth straight term.
Within minutes, he paid his share of the tribute to the way the SGPC functions. “The SGPC decision making is done by the party, our Akali Dal. Whatever the Akali Dal leadership decides, the SGPC runs as per that. What is so new about it?” It was not clear whether Makkar was being candid or innocent, but one thing was. We sure are doomed to live, as the Chinese say, in interesting times.
Before the SGPC poll day, the annual ritual was taken over by the son from papa CM. Akali Dal members of the SGPC got together in Chandigarh and authorized Sukhbir Singh Badal to choose them a president for the SGPC. Earlier, they used to vest all rights in Badal Sr. The power transition has become a process instead of a one step decision.
Sukhbir was entrusted with the onerous task within days of getting himself baptized last September. He did not flinch for a second.
No wonder, Makkar’s agenda was clear to the world. The Hindustan Times said it was to “work as per the wishes of SAD president Sukhbir Badal”.
Earlier, Pardhan Sahibs used to tumble out of a “lifaafa’, and were never sure till the last moment what Badal Sahib’s “lifaafa” may reveal, this time Makkar was smug. He knew he was sitting inside the “lifaafa” and will jump out for the fourth time. He did. Good you guessed. Too bad we all did. It tells the state of the community.
Thanks to the clarity that Makkar and Sukhbir display, the relationship is easy to guess for the media. Raghujit Singh Virk from Haryana was elected senior vice-president, Gurdev Singh Badal junior vice-president and Sukhdev Singh Bhaur as general secretary.
The committee also nominated ten Badal loyalist members and an opposition member to its Executive.
Makkar thanked Sukhbir, then Badal Sr, then a few other members of the Family and then thought it fit to thank Akal Purakh also. It seemed quite an afterthought, and he walked to the Darbar Sahib to bow his head with cameras panning all around.
There was some acrimony over issue of a separate SGPC for Haryana and Makkar displayed a distance of light years from something called humility when he snubbed opposition SGPC member Jagdish Singh Jhinda.
On his part, Jhinda did play his card by proposing Karnail Singh Panjoli’s name for presidentship but Panjoli clearly knew the rules of the party that he has joined recently. He said Makkar was more competent.
The only element different this time was that while earlier Pardhan Sahibs used to tumble out of a “lifaafa’, and were never sure till the last moment what Badal Sahib’s “lifaafa” may reveal, this time Makkar was smug. He knew he was sitting inside the “lifaafa” and will jump out for the fourth time. Kya Chowka Maara hai, Pardhan Jiyo. Guru Bhala Kare.
26 November 2008
‘SGPC is Run by Akali Dal, What’s Your Doubt Exactly?’
Sach Kanwal Singh
Sach Kanwal Singh
AMRITSAR: If it has happened umpteen times in the past, could it be news? Well, it is news so long as we keep missing the gravity of it all. In a complete go by to the last vestiges of democratic norms, Punjab’s ruling Akali Dal which enjoys brute majority in the SGPC asked its recently-baptized president Sukhbir Singh Badal to choose a president for the Mini Parliament of the Sikhs.
Shamelessly, he did. Instead of raising the traditions of consultations, debate, democratic discourse and freedom of choice, Sukhbir simply went ahead and chose not just the president but each of the office bearers.
When Avtar Singh Makkar had become president for the first time, a leading English daily in Punjab had written that Falstaff had become the president. Now, Falstaff seemed to be entrenched in the tragi-comic drama that the annual SGPC election has become.
Moments after his election, Makkar The Falstaff had a gift wrapped for the community which he was quick to reveal: No memorial for the victims and martyrs of Operation Bluestar, he has not even heard of the resolution passed by the SGPC, and said there was no such move.
At a time when the Surrey sangat has demonstrated its resolve to prepare the next generation for governance of gurdwaras and move ahead beyond the luggage of history and divisiveness, Punjab’s Akalis are moving in the reverse direction.
All power is being concentrated within one family’s fold, and those within the system have made their peace with the little slice of power and pelf that the Family has thrown their way.
Within minutes, he paid his share of the tribute to the way the SGPC functions. “The SGPC decision making is done by the party, our Akali Dal. Whatever the Akali Dal leadership decides, the SGPC runs as per that. What is so new about it?” It was not clear whether Makkar was being candid or innocent, but one thing was. We sure are doomed to live, as the Chinese say, in interesting times.
Before the SGPC poll day, the annual ritual was taken over by the son from papa CM. Akali Dal members of the SGPC got together in Chandigarh and authorized Sukhbir Singh Badal to choose them a president for the SGPC. Earlier, they used to vest all rights in Badal Sr. The power transition has become a process instead of a one step decision.
Sukhbir was entrusted with the onerous task within days of getting himself baptized last September. He did not flinch for a second.
No wonder, Makkar’s agenda was clear to the world. The Hindustan Times said it was to “work as per the wishes of SAD president Sukhbir Badal”.
Earlier, Pardhan Sahibs used to tumble out of a “lifaafa’, and were never sure till the last moment what Badal Sahib’s “lifaafa” may reveal, this time Makkar was smug. He knew he was sitting inside the “lifaafa” and will jump out for the fourth time. He did. Good you guessed. Too bad we all did. It tells the state of the community.
Thanks to the clarity that Makkar and Sukhbir display, the relationship is easy to guess for the media. Raghujit Singh Virk from Haryana was elected senior vice-president, Gurdev Singh Badal junior vice-president and Sukhdev Singh Bhaur as general secretary.
The committee also nominated ten Badal loyalist members and an opposition member to its Executive.
Makkar thanked Sukhbir, then Badal Sr, then a few other members of the Family and then thought it fit to thank Akal Purakh also. It seemed quite an afterthought, and he walked to the Darbar Sahib to bow his head with cameras panning all around.
There was some acrimony over issue of a separate SGPC for Haryana and Makkar displayed a distance of light years from something called humility when he snubbed opposition SGPC member Jagdish Singh Jhinda.
On his part, Jhinda did play his card by proposing Karnail Singh Panjoli’s name for presidentship but Panjoli clearly knew the rules of the party that he has joined recently. He said Makkar was more competent.
The only element different this time was that while earlier Pardhan Sahibs used to tumble out of a “lifaafa’, and were never sure till the last moment what Badal Sahib’s “lifaafa” may reveal, this time Makkar was smug. He knew he was sitting inside the “lifaafa” and will jump out for the fourth time. Kya Chowka Maara hai, Pardhan Jiyo. Guru Bhala Kare.
26 November 2008
What did Guru Gobind Singh ji mean when he said this?
The Khalsa is my own special form
Within the Khalsa I’ll ever abide,
The Khalsa is the life of my life;
The Khalsa is the breath of my breath.
The Khalsa is my worshipful lord.
The Khalsa is my saintly kinght.
--Guru Nanak(the 10th)
We can do better in this thread than we have so far done.
The Khalsa is my own special form
Within the Khalsa I’ll ever abide,
The Khalsa is the life of my life;
The Khalsa is the breath of my breath.
The Khalsa is my worshipful lord.
The Khalsa is my saintly kinght.
--Guru Nanak(the 10th)
We can do better in this thread than we have so far done.
Satwant ji thank you for that.
I had/have no doubt who the Guru is of the Sikhs. Was just simply pointing it out to Bhagat Singh that Guru Gobind Singh Sahib jis Hukam was just that and the same way he made it a hukam every Sikh must take amrit and if Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji is not present then the Panj Pyare take on the role as decision making as Guru Gobind Singh Sahib ji said, When the Panj Pyare are present take it as I am present before you.
Also to the person that says I only listen to the next Guru or as they put it "new Guru"(Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji). This is comletely barbaric statement. In Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji it says Bani is Guru and Guru is the bani, simply telling us there is no difference from the previous Guru (Guru Gobind Singh Sahib ji) and the Current eternal Guru (Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji); the Hukams by Guru Gobind Singh Sahib ji of taking amrit is just as important.
Once again thanks for presenting this Hukam Sawant
To those who believe that Sri Guru Granth Sahib Maharaj and the khalsa are equal as Guru. To those who believe that Sri Gobind Singh Patasha intended that his khalsa be seen as equal to the Granth Sahib, I say this:
Do you then behold your guru? Is it a reflection of yourself? Who of them is guru? Who of them is khalsa?
Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji is the Guru, but when Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji is not present and decisions need to be made the Panj Pyare take on the role and together they represent Guru Gobind Singh Sahib ji.
Now to anyone that say we don't need to take amrit then why is so much importants given to the Khalsa Panth. Is Guru Gobind Singh Sahib ji being unfair here when he tells other Sikhs to listen to the Panj Pyare. Why didn't he just say the Sikhs collectively make the decisions. Also after one of the battles Guru Goibind Singh Sahib ji Singhs started pleading with him to depart, but he did not agree with them. The Singhs humbly reminded Guru Gobind Singh Sahib ji of the Hukam he had made when he gave amrit to the Panj Pyare, that where and whenever 5 True Singhs would make a pure hearted decision that the Guru would be present in them and every decision taken by the Panj Pyare would taken as the decision of the Guru. Therefore the True Singhs took up the role as the Panj Pyare and took up the status of Guru ji and told Guru Gobind Singh Sahib ji to leave the fortress, as he did.
To anyone that still says, but the Hukam was that Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji is the current Guru, you are corect, but also just like Guru Gobind Singh Sahib ji was the Guru of the Sikhs in the above saki and he had to obey the order of the Panj Pyare Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji would do the same.
Five Singh came before him and told him he should leave, Guru Gobind Singh Sahib ji the present Guru at the time did not agree with them. Then humbly the Truesikhs came before him and said whenever 5 True Singhs make a make a pure decision the Guru would be present in them
Archived_Member5
(previously jeetijohal, account deactivated at her
Waheguru is the Absolute Truth, The Word and The Light. If we elect politico’s to govern and lead the hearts and minds of Sikhs is it not better advisable and provident to elect a religious leader of the faith to retain the authority of the Adi Granth at a time and juncture in the ages, when a fast changing culture and media trends are leading astray from the fold the generations.
Would you not think, by the setting aside of wilful dogmatism , we as Punjabis should battle not with guns but with the sword of righteous truth to elect a Spiritual Leader, highly educated and wise from the ranks of the Sangat elite to reign over Punjab?.
An urgent need to retain and augment traditional family and cultural values in an age when media intrusion is leading away from long standing ethic the Sangat young. Yes it was decreed by Guru Gobind Singh in his final words, that the word of the Adi Granth is full and complete. He did not say stipulate or elaborate that the state be divided, with political figures competing for dominance with the religious heads.
A fully independent state governed by strong, intelligent religious leaders abiding by the word of the Granth than be fashion fads of media engineered whims and the demands of ignorant misguided malcontents.
Would you not think, by the setting aside of wilful dogmatism , we as Punjabis should battle not with guns but with the sword of righteous truth to elect a Spiritual Leader, highly educated and wise from the ranks of the Sangat elite to reign over Punjab?.
An urgent need to retain and augment traditional family and cultural values in an age when media intrusion is leading away from long standing ethic the Sangat young. Yes it was decreed by Guru Gobind Singh in his final words, that the word of the Adi Granth is full and complete. He did not say stipulate or elaborate that the state be divided, with political figures competing for dominance with the religious heads.
A fully independent state governed by strong, intelligent religious leaders abiding by the word of the Granth than be fashion fads of media engineered whims and the demands of ignorant misguided malcontents.
Honoring five Sikhs to order like Guru was Tenth Master’s foresightedness. His aim to eliminate one man’s power was astounding at that time. To put that practice in action today, one must know who five pyaras are. To understand the fact behind purity of Panj pyaras, let’s take an example from Guru Sahib’s own facing opposition and his ignoring of numbers of Sikhs. When Guru Sahib was surrounded by enemy forces and with false oaths, the enemy was trying to get Khalsa out of Hill refuge, about forty Sikhs got together( their hope was that Guru ji would listen to them being in high numbers) and went to Guru and said” We should leave, there is not enough food, we will die of hunger, they are swearing in the name of religion” Guru ji said” No, its their clever tactics”
Then forty Sikhs threatened to leave. Guru ji asked them to leave by terminating their alliance to him. And daringly they did. Now question rises here, if five Sikhs become panj pyaras and give order, shouldn’t we analyze their purpose, sincerity? Shouldn’t we find out who are they actually, who is behind them to order? Guru ji showed this to us with a practical. Today if by merely with closing eyes, we follow just panj pyaras, we would be serving Badal Family instead of Khalsa. Article posted by aad0002 ji are eye opening, it comes down the purity and sincerity of the five panj pyaras to qualify to issue orders to Khalsa. This core tenet of Khalsa has been heavily exploited by one family in Punjab. All those who are serving this family are to my foot; I am bowing to Sree Guru Granth Sahib ji to guide me in such times of corruption. Am I disobeying Sree Guru Gobind Singh ji or following his insight he offered through practical?
Then forty Sikhs threatened to leave. Guru ji asked them to leave by terminating their alliance to him. And daringly they did. Now question rises here, if five Sikhs become panj pyaras and give order, shouldn’t we analyze their purpose, sincerity? Shouldn’t we find out who are they actually, who is behind them to order? Guru ji showed this to us with a practical. Today if by merely with closing eyes, we follow just panj pyaras, we would be serving Badal Family instead of Khalsa. Article posted by aad0002 ji are eye opening, it comes down the purity and sincerity of the five panj pyaras to qualify to issue orders to Khalsa. This core tenet of Khalsa has been heavily exploited by one family in Punjab. All those who are serving this family are to my foot; I am bowing to Sree Guru Granth Sahib ji to guide me in such times of corruption. Am I disobeying Sree Guru Gobind Singh ji or following his insight he offered through practical?
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