Why Are We Not Allowed To Cut Hair When It's Ok To Cut Nails, Since Both Are Created By God?

[Mai Harinder Kaur]

I probably should add that I have often been told that I seem to be half Vulcan and half Klingon (Star Trek again). The adventure in being my friend is that you never know which one will show up. Occasionally, I become an integrated whole. That happens more often as I get a bit older. That is part of what being a Sikh means to me, becoming a single, whole person with the scientist/logic balanced with the warrior/emotion. Perhaps this is a slightly different interpretation of the sant-sipahi concept. (Please don't tell any of the Panthic fuddy-duddies I said that. I have enough problems to handle with an attack by the fundamentalists. Oh, wait, I am one of those fundamentalist extremist separatist (probably a terrorist) Khalistani Sikhs. It gets so confusing. Anyway, I think I'll go cut my toenails while my kesh is drying from my shower.)kaurhugicecreamkaur

 

[Seeker9]

I probably should add that I have often been told that I seem to be half Vulcan and half Klingon (Star Trek again). The adventure in being my friend is that you never know which one will show up. Occasionally, I become an integrated whole. That happens more often as I get a bit older. That is part of what being a Sikh means to me, becoming a single, whole person with the scientist/logic balanced with the warrior/emotion. Perhaps this is a slightly different interpretation of the sant-sipahi concept. (Please don't tell any of the Panthic fuddy-duddies I said that. I have enough problems to handle with an attack by the fundamentalists. Oh, wait, I am one of those fundamentalist extremist separatist (probably a terrorist) Khalistani Sikhs. It gets so confusing. Anyway, I think I'll go cut my toenails while my kesh is drying from my shower.)kaurhugicecreamkaur

Now that's funny!
But the important points here and below are well made
Live long and prosper!

 

[Mai Harinder Kaur]

Now that's funny!
But the important points here and below are well made
Live long and prosper!

Truth often comes with a laugh. (And ice cream. icecreammundaicecreamkaur)

Prosperity and long life. (I think k'plach goes in here somewhere, too.)

 

[findingmyway]

Why do majority of the world population cut their hairs? - Easier to maintain, easy to keep clean. Dust and food particles get stuck in them if you have a long free flowing beard or long hair. But the people in colder climates tend to keep beards as it helps them trap body heat and the people in warmer climates tend to keep shorter hair and no beards for the exact inverse reason. See.... Logical and Practical

I disagree. If long hair were so impractical then why were long hairs kept more often in times of old? Short hair is often styled and therefore needs frequent visits to the hairdressers to maintain....NOT PRACTICAL or cheap. It often requires specialist products too.....NOT PRACTICAL. People who shave their facial (or other hair) need to do this daily adding about 10 mins minimum to their daily routine as well as having to buy creams, lotions, blades etc.....NOT PRACTICAL. Dust is also going to get stuck in short hair if not properly maintained so I don't think there is any difference there. The change in attitude against long hair is media related. It has become fashionable to have short hair so please don't confuse that with practicality. As far as logical or practical goes, both are equal as each has their pitfalls. The main downside of long hair in the modern world is that it stands out in a world that is increasingly bent on wiping out differences-it is not a practical problem

 

[harryputtar89]

I disagree. If long hair were so impractical then why were long hairs kept more often in times of old?

Well, first of all, from Harappa to Houston, people have been cutting their hair off. Archaeological finds support it that people have been cutting their hair for a very long time so not sure what you mean by 'old times'.

If you were refering to the photos of sadhus, well do you think they couldn't shave with precision blades because they left their families and material world to go to the jungles to pray. And believe me it's really not easy to trim your hair with tree branches while you are praying round the clock.

Dust is also going to get stuck in short hair if not properly maintained so I don't think there is any difference there.

You will get the answer if you seek it.
Material101. - Longer hair, greater surface area, larger area for dust particles to stick to. Almost the same reason why longer hair will retain more water than shorter hair.

The main downside of long hair in the modern world is that it stands out in a world that is increasingly bent on wiping out differences-it is not a practical problem

"The 'main' downside?". Skeptic dude showed so many downsides throughout the thread. I showed one to you in this post about the dust particles.
Let me give you another one.

So many of my friends mentioned hair help us trap body heat. Now that is a big disadvantage when you are living in hot climates. Big disadvantage if you have long hair. It turns into advantage if you are in cold climate. But sikhism doesn't differentiate between the conditions where long hair are good or bad. it just says, keep long hair. That's it.
So please don't say there is no downside.

 

[jasbirkaleka]

Re: Why are we allowed to cut nails but not hair?

I usually eschew long copy/pastes, but this says it much better and in more detail than I can. From


Hail Hair !
by Dr. Birendra Kaur




In the end, though, however annoying it might be, I keep kesh because my Guru has told me to do this.

There is absolutely no differanca between hair and nails,both are made

of the same material.

The best way to pleasw God is to roam about naked becaude that is

how God wished us to be.

 

[findingmyway]

Well, first of all, from Harappa to Houston, people have been cutting their hair off. Archaeological finds support it that people have been cutting their hair for a very long time so not sure what you mean by 'old times'.

Actually I had ancient Greeks in mind. Long tresses were highly valued. So we've established we can't use history as history supports both sides of the argument
However, slaves always had short hair so hair can be seen as a sign of freedom technically.

You will get the answer if you seek it.
Material101. - Longer hair, greater surface area, larger area for dust particles to stick to. Almost the same reason why longer hair will retain more water than shorter hair.

Since hair should be protected by a turban for Sikhs, this is not an issue

So many of my friends mentioned hair help us trap body heat. Now that is a big disadvantage when you are living in hot climates. Big disadvantage if you have long hair. It turns into advantage if you are in cold climate. But sikhism doesn't differentiate between the conditions where long hair are good or bad. it just says, keep long hair. That's it.
So please don't say there is no downside.

I don't think the Guru's or other Sikhs suffered from problems during their time in the heat

 

[harryputtar89]

Re: Why are we allowed to cut nails but not hair?

The best way to pleasw God is to roam about naked becaude that is how God wished us to be.

Finally a voice of reason! If that was one of the tenants of Sikhi, I would have been a big fan of our entire philosophy.icecreammunda

 

[Mai Harinder Kaur]

Re: Why are we allowed to cut nails but not hair?

harryputtar89 ji,

Finally a voice of reason! If that was one of the tenants of Sikhi, I would have been a big fan of our entire philosophy.icecreammunda

Obviously you have never spent a winter in Montreal!icecreamkaur

 

[harryputtar89]

So we've established we can't use history as history supports both sides of the argument

Wrong. Noone was arguing in favor of short hair. Argument was for freedom to choose long or short hair as a person wishes depending on his climate and other conditions. So history just shows that people had always been keeping long or short hair as they wished till sikhism came along.

However, slaves always had short hair so hair can be seen as a sign of freedom technically.

Open Google image search and search for 'Greek King' and see how many people with full length hair and full beard come up. Keep in mind, no trimming or hair styling is allowed
How about doing some research before you dive in!

Jasleen, You made some pretty good posts in the beginning. What happened to you all of a sudden??


Seriously people, all your theories and reasons have holes the size of titanic! Why don't you accept that you have no logic or reason behind keeping long hair and beard and it is all based on blind faith.

For how long would we keep following this blind superstition about our hair !!

 

[BhagatSingh]

Why do majority of the world population cut their hairs? - Easier to maintain, easy to keep clean. Dust and food particles get stuck in them if you have a long free flowing beard or long hair. But the people in colder climates tend to keep beards as it helps them trap body heat and the people in warmer climates tend to keep shorter hair and no beards for the exact inverse reason. See....

The answer to both climates is "turban". keeps the hair free from dust and insulates the head in both climates from heat and cold.

Actually, I would say long hair is less maintenance than short hair. Forget about styling.
Long hair have much greater surface area. This allows the oil from the scalp to spread over the hair. With shorter hair, much of the oil from the scalp remains on the scalp, collects dust, and leads to itch.
Also with a turban, long hair only need to be washed once a week. The same cannot be said about shorter hair.

 

[dalbirk]

Sikhs are required IMHO to maintain hair so as to maintain distinct identity . The Sikhs should stand out as unique community & not get lost in the crowd was the aim of Guru Gobind Singh Ji because according to JivanSakhis when Guru Teg Bahadur Ji was martyred then none came forward to pick his body though many Sikhs were present . The Sikhs who were required to maintain a strict discipline the beliefs & aims of whom were always at odds with the political & religious set up There was always a danger that Sikhs may try to assimilate under pressure of political powers of the day as well as religious authorities . The similar danger is always lurking living in India especially when we have the examples of two of the oldest religions which sank without a trace ie Jainism & Buddhism so much so that countless efforts to revive these religions have borne no fruit .

 

[findingmyway]

Harryputtar ji,
You really are taking things round and round in circles. This will be my final post on this topic as we really have covered everything as far as i can see unless someone has something earth shattering to say!! (Though I am looking forward to skeptic.freethinker1's comments on his return)

Wrong. Noone was arguing in favor of short hair. Argument was for freedom to choose long or short hair as a person wishes depending on his climate and other conditions. So history just shows that people had always been keeping long or short hair as they wished till sikhism came along.

Open Google image search and search for 'Greek King' and see how many people with full length hair and full beard come up. Keep in mind, no trimming or hair styling is allowed
How about doing some research before you dive in!

Jasleen, You made some pretty good posts in the beginning. What happened to you all of a sudden??

Seriously people, all your theories and reasons have holes the size of titanic! Why don't you accept that you have no logic or reason behind keeping long hair and beard and it is all based on blind faith.

For how long would we keep following this blind superstition about our hair !!

Firstly, don't believe everything you read on google searches. I am constantly telling patients not to use google as there is a lot of rubbish out there. I was thinking back to my history lessons in school (admittedly they were a while ago so I don't remember all the details!!) Also don't believe all pictures. There are hundreds of pictures out there of Guru Nanak Dev Ji holding a mala. Anyone who has started understanding his philosophy will know that this picture cannot have been a real scene as Guru Nanak Dev Ji rejected such things.

No-one has ever said you don't have freedom. That's the beauty of free will. This thread about helping skeptic.freethinker1 and others choose. Every action has a consequence. The symbolism and historical significance has already been explained several times. To many of us keeping kesh is no different to wearing a kara. You say I made sense earlier then why do you keep justifying cutting hair when I already said it's about faith? Keeping kesh is not blind faith but has a logical and understandable motive based in maintaining identity. I think this is just as relevant today as ever. People always dress according to the situation they are in and the person they want to be. Kesh is part of the Gursikh uniform. Those who want to cut their hair as they have difficulties getting into a nightclub definitely should as if they want to go clubbing they are not following a Gursikh path. (Those who keep kesh but are committing atrocities are not following a gursikh path either but that's a different story). Where Sikhs are known they are generally well respected. Admitted that in the west there is still a lot of ignorance about us but organisations such as SALDEF and United Sikhs are working on improving this situation and we all need to be doing our bit by always being on our best behaviour rather than hiding below the covers. Keeping this uniform should always make us aware to always be the best human beings we can be. You can be a good human without the uniform too but that does not lessen the significance of the uniform.

Every action has a consequence. You most definitely do have a choice. You can cut your hair if you don't believe in the reasons presented. You will still be a Sikh if you so choose but you will not have the option to take khanda di pahaul and become a member of the khalsa. If that's not important to you then fine. However, you cannot change a whole religion to suit your sentiments. That's like going into the police force and saying you hate the colour blue for whatever reason so can they change everyone's uniform to green! I am not saying the Khalsa are better than you or anyone else, but you have no right to ridicule their beliefs when they are not doing you or anyone else harm. It is a way of life that people are FREE to CHOOSE. They are willing to show commitment, you are not. Why are you resorting to attacking beliefs to alleviate your own insecurities? Points against keeping kesh have been raised and answered in a reasonable manner so now everyone is free to choose what to do. There are many cases where the Guru's hukam is being ignored as it goes against what people want to do. One example; there are many Panjabi's love their booze! They twist the hukam and give a thousand reasons why it's ok but IT IS AGAINST Guru Ji's hukam. They don't stop being Sikhs but are not following all aspects of Sikhi. Why are we not spending more time on this issue than hair? Keeping hair is a choice with no bad consequences but the same cannot be said about drinking alcohol. So why is one more accepted than the other? Because it is socially acceptable. Again this shows lack of commitment. (I am not attacking you personally harryputtar but am making general statements based on my experiences around the world-i don't know details about you and do not want to know as it is your business frankly, not mine).

Sikhi is a journey. We are all at different points. The less you follow of Guru Ji's hukam, the further you have to travel on that path. If you don't want to be judged for cutting your hair, then don't judge others for wanting to keep theirs.

Sikh ppl roam around naked in winters in Montreal??

Don't kid with me. If this is indeed true and Montreal has Naked Sardarnis, I will take up Amrit tomorrow and would be sweeping the floors of Montreal Gurudwara by the following day!!

You want to be taken seriously when you make comments such as this?!! Control your lustful thoughts man...
:sigh::nothingtoadd:

 

[harryputtar89]

Harryputtar ji,
Firstly, don't believe everything you read on google searches.

And you go ahead and believe all the non sense that different religions in this world propagate for their own benefit.

Here is a gem of nonsense being preached and this was quoted by a very 'respected' member of this forum 'Soul_Jyot':-

ਗੁਰ ਕੀ ਛਾਪ ਸਿਰ ਕੇਸ ਕੀ ਪਾਹੁਲ, ਦੇਇ ਉਤਾਰ ਸੋ ਬੇਮੁਖ ਜਾਨਹੁ।
ਬੇਟੇ ਕੋ ਬੰਧੁ ਕੋ ਛਾਪ ਮੁੰਡਾਵਤ, ਜਮ ਦੁਖ ਭੋਗ ਕੇ ਪ੍ਰੇਤ ਪਛਾਨਹੁ।
Second part of which means :-
One who shaves the stamp (of the Guru) of their child (i.e. cut their children's hair), realise that person will suffer a terrible death and known as a ghost

Really, terrible death for cutting hair!! Terrible death for something most humans do!!?? Pathetic!
And gullible people like you are happy to believe this line that your religion so happily preaches. I didn't see any of you criticise this except skeptic.freethinker. He skewered this line but all of you just stayed mum and kept trying to come up with more and more ridiculous reasons to keep hair and beard. And each time your new reasons got blown up, instead of trying to defend them you came up even more silly reasons.

If you can't even criticize something as irrational as above comment, then anything else you say doesn't hold any water!

No-one has ever said you don't have freedom.

Really! I have the freedom?
Freedom for what? To 'die a terrible death' as described in above quote??
You really think kids have freedom.

Just do one thing. If you have kids, today tell them that they have the freedom to keep their hair or cut their hair. Tell them that it's their choice to keep long hair or short hair and no matter what they choose, you won't judge them. Tell them you would love them anyways and that having long or short hair doesn't make them a good person. Being a good human is what makes them good.

And I am not just talking to 'findingmyway'. I am talking to all of you who have kids. If you think everybody has the freedom to keep their hair or not, then go home and tell your kids that they have the freedom.
If you can't, then don't do this drama of sikhism teaching tolerance and acceptance, irrespective of whether somebody cuts their hair or not.

You guys just talk big. Try to act on it for once.

If I cut my hair, my mom would go bazooka on me. And she is the most pious sikh you would ever meet. So much for 'sikhism teaches tolerance'. All because of a 500 year old superstition!!

Findingmyway,
You sound like a nice person and probably if I met you, I would give lot of weightage to what you have to say on other topics. The reason you loose credibility on this topic is that you fail to criticise people of your own ilk for making far fetched irrational comments.

 

[harryputtar89]

Sikhs are required IMHO to maintain hair so as to maintain distinct identity.

You guys really need to get your act together. Just a few posts back someone said the reason behind long hair and turban was that Mughal emperors used to wear turban. And guruji wanted to defy the distinction and everyone to wear turbans. Now you are saying reason was to look distinct!!
Which one is it!!

 

[Mai Harinder Kaur]

OK, Harryputtar, here it is.

As I see it there are two legitimate reasons for keeping kes.

1. You love your Guru and he asks it of you
2. You like long hair, beard, etc.

I suppose I could add because you love mata ji and don't want to disappoint her, but I won't. It would have broken my heart if my child had cut his kes, but broken hearts do mend and I would have survived.

Every other reason is just justification and, frankly, bull ****. It is a useless exercise in something, maybe hypocrisy, maybe something else.

There is no magic in kes: you receive no superpowers. It just helps make you look like a Sikh, which is a good thing if you want to be recognised as a Sikh. And, of course, Guru ji asks it of us.

BTW, I am a bit upset at your rudeness - yes, you were quite rude - to polpol who is a lovely person who deserves our encouragement, not our criticism.

Good night and have a pleasant tomorrow.

 

[gurbanicd]

dear all

since we are following guru nanak sahib and all ten guru had long hairs, all on spiritual path had/have long hairs.

Our guru want us to have long hairs. we should trust him, as we trust our family and friends when we ask them for direction to reach our destination.

sometime faith and trust should be given preference over reasoning

bhulan chukan di khima

 

[GodsDust]

Shri Guru Gobind Singh create a Sikh as a warrior person who can fight against injustice and evil. Hair has following significance, that is why it is included in sikh's 5 K.

1. Hair are smalls keratin filaments. When you put together thousands of these filaments together, it gives enormous strength. So keep hair used to help the sikhs during war time. Beard hair used to protect neck from sword attack. Head hair used to give natual helmet.

2. One of the reason was to give unique identity to a sikh.

3. It makes a women more beautiful and a man more macho.

4. Human hair may not compete with the painful spines of the porcupine, but much of the hair on the human body is suited to protect it. This natural armor cannot directly protect humans from potential predators, but it does help to keep the sense organs, like the eyes, working properly.

5. Hair also provide protection from cold.

Why not nail?

1. Keeping nail would not have given any benifits during wars. On the contrary having long nails is a hindrance to the body. An individual with long nails cannot functions and do everyday chores comfortably.

2. Sikh only cuts dead part of the nail not the alive pink/red part called nail plate. Cutting dead part of the nail and retailing pink nail plate can be analogous to combing and removing dead hair and dandruff while retaining live hair.

3. Hair protects us against the harmful Ultra Violet radiations and skin cancer while the dead part of the nails do not seem to provide a similar functionality.

4. Our body do not treat Keratin of hair as waste product as it restricts its growth and nourishes it. Whereas, for our body keratin in nail is like waste product. And hence it does not nourishes nail, and even it does not restrict it lenght.

5. Hair grows from the most actively dividing layer of the skin (stratum germinativum), the gray part of nails is only modifications of the upper dead layer (stratum corneum). Hair follicle bulges out forming an inverted cup, which receives blood capillaries for nourishment and nerve fibers to make the hair sensitive. Sebaceous gland lubricate hair follicle by its secretion. A muscle is also attached to the base of every hair for bringing about movement. Pigments are added to the shaft of the hair as it grows. None of these features is associated with the dead part of nails.

 

[findingmyway]

And you go ahead and believe all the non sense that different religions in this world propagate for their own benefit.

Here is a gem of nonsense being preached and this was quoted by a very 'respected' member of this forum 'Soul_Jyot':-

ਗੁਰ ਕੀ ਛਾਪ ਸਿਰ ਕੇਸ ਕੀ ਪਾਹੁਲ, ਦੇਇ ਉਤਾਰ ਸੋ ਬੇਮੁਖ ਜਾਨਹੁ।
ਬੇਟੇ ਕੋ ਬੰਧੁ ਕੋ ਛਾਪ ਮੁੰਡਾਵਤ, ਜਮ ਦੁਖ ਭੋਗ ਕੇ ਪ੍ਰੇਤ ਪਛਾਨਹੁ।
Second part of which means :-
<cite>One who shaves the stamp (of the Guru) of their child (i.e. cut their children's hair), realise that person will suffer a terrible death and known as a ghost</cite>

Really, terrible death for cutting hair!! Terrible death for something most humans do!!?? Pathetic!
And gullible people like you are happy to believe this line that your religion so happily preaches. I didn't see any of you criticise this except skeptic.freethinker. He skewered this line but all of you just stayed mum and kept trying to come up with more and more ridiculous reasons to keep hair and beard. And each time your new reasons got blown up, instead of trying to defend them you came up even more silly reasons.

Read my posts again. I have never once supported the above view. The quote above is not from the Guru Granth Sahib Ji but from another text. For me only the Guru Granth Sahib Ji is my only Guru, so that is the only thing that I follow. Why only read the negative?

Really! I have the freedom?
Freedom for what? To 'die a terrible death' as described in above quote??
You really think kids have freedom.

Just do one thing. If you have kids, today tell them that they have the freedom to keep their hair or cut their hair. Tell them that it's their choice to keep long hair or short hair and no matter what they choose, you won't judge them. Tell them you would love them anyways and that having long or short hair doesn't make them a good person. Being a good human is what makes them good.

And I am not just talking to 'findingmyway'. I am talking to all of you who have kids. If you think everybody has the freedom to keep their hair or not, then go home and tell your kids that they have the freedom.
If you can't, then don't do this drama of sikhism teaching tolerance and acceptance, irrespective of whether somebody cuts their hair or not.

You guys just talk big. Try to act on it for once.

If I cut my hair, my mom would go bazooka on me. And she is the most pious sikh you would ever meet. So much for 'sikhism teaches tolerance'. All because of a 500 year old superstition!!

That is between you and your mother and you need to discuss with her. In a previous post I have given you some ideas as to how to connect with Sikhi but if you don't want to or can't then you need to talk seriously with her and stop taking your anger out on others. We have lots of people in my family with cut hair. I have said time and again it doesn't affect your ability to be a good person but does affect your commitment to the Sikh way of life. Your anger is what people will think about the boy who wants to cut his hair and i'm sure that's not the only thing you want to show the world about yourself. If you want to be taken seriously then you have got to stop ridiculing others as having blind faith when it clearly is not. I don't follow anything i don't believe in or understand. It is not a superstition but a uniform. Simple. There are many things my parents don't want me to do. I have a choice to either accept and live by it. Or work on them to bring them round to my way of thinking. I don't brush the whole world with the same attitudes as it is a personal thing! Same in your case. Why do you wear a kara? Maybe you should stop wearing that too.

You guys really need to get your act together. Just a few posts back someone said the reason behind long hair and turban was that Mughal emperors used to wear turban. And guruji wanted to defy the distinction and everyone to wear turbans. Now you are saying reason was to look distinct!!
Which one is it!!

Anyone in power wore a turban which is why we were gifted a turban. However, they did not keep kesh so that makes our identity unique from them. We have the status of a turban with a unique appearance for every person-we are all kings and queens for God.

Why do you have so much anger?

 

[Seeker9]

OK, Harryputtar, here it is.

As I see it there are two legitimate reasons for keeping kes.

1. You love your Guru and he asks it of you
2. You like long hair, beard, etc.

I suppose I could add because you love mata ji and don't want to disappoint her, but I won't. It would have broken my heart if my child had cut his kes, but broken hearts do mend and I would have survived.

Every other reason is just justification and, frankly, bull ****. It is a useless exercise in something, maybe hypocrisy, maybe something else.

There is no magic in kes: you receive no superpowers. It just helps make you look like a Sikh, which is a good thing if you want to be recognised as a Sikh. And, of course, Guru ji asks it of us.

BTW, I am a bit upset at your rudeness - yes, you were quite rude - to polpol who is a lovely person who deserves our encouragement, not our criticism.

Good night and have a pleasant tomorrow.

Dear Mai Ji

I must commend you on an excellent post that cuts through al the crap to the heart of the issue

As Finding my way has noted, we are going in circles now

We've presented one side, others have presented their side and no consensus has been reached

We'll continue to do our own thing and they can do theirs

End of story

Off all the things to die in a ditch over...I still find it remarkable folk are getting hung up on this one thing when the path has so much else to offer

Dear HarryPutter Ji and Skeptic.Freethinker Ji

Forget about the hair thing for now

Follow the path and see if you feel better for it. But please don't dump everything just over this one thing!

Good luck to you and all the best

rangesingh: