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Why Are We Not Allowed To Cut Hair When It's Ok To Cut Nails, Since Both Are Created By God?

kds1980

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Apr 3, 2005
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Harryputtar/skeptic

You have quoted some solid points about being logic and rationality behind keeping hair.But I want to ask you is logic and rationality is everything in world.? Please also look at Real world.Sikhs all over the world got the reputation of being brave ,honest hardworking persons .majority of them those wore turban and kept uncut hair.Now in last 20-30 years
a very large majority of sikh youth cut their hair and what is the present situation of Punjab?

A large majority of Youths are taking drugs.
Majority of them just day dream about leaving India and making quick money.
Participation of sikhs in sports ,Army is constantly declining
Unlike large part of India that worked really hard in education and made good fortune in outsourcing software industry ,the rural sikhs of Punjab have not done this.

The list goes on and on

My simple question to you is that why can't The sikh youths of Punjab who cut there hair are maintain the reputation of there forefathers of being brave,honest,hardworking etc.?
 
Nov 14, 2004
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It is surprising when people argue that there is no mention in Gurbani about cutting or not cutting your bodily hair. In Japji Sahib, it is clearly stated to live our life in accordance to the Hukum (The Laws of Nature). This statement encompasses every trivial argument we make like justifying of Cutting/shaving/plucking of Hair from any part of the body.

Kesh or Bodily Hair grow as per the Hukum (The Laws of Nature) of the Almighty. Cutting edges of hair or plucking or shaving eyebrows/facial hair or shaving hair from any part of your body is a clear defiance of the Hukum (The Laws of Nature) of the Almighty.

Now, about people who seek justification for cutting bodily hair, in cutting nails, i would request them to immediately stop cutting their nails and see what happens next? Doing your day to day chores, the nails will break-off automatically, even if you take utmost care to prevent them from breaking. This means Breaking-off of nails is perfectly in accordance of with the Hukum (The Laws of the Nature).

For me this fake argument of Nails v/s Hair ends right here! End of the Story!

The Hukum by the tenth Master to Keep Kesh is simply a reminder to follow this important Hukum ie. The Laws of Nature as ordained by the almighty.

But as Tejwant ji stated earlier in this discussion itself, a person who is hell bent upon to defy the word of the Guru or the Hukum, will eventually find a way to justify his/her acts.

Aman ji,

Quote:
>>It is really strange when people keep on arguing that there is no mention in Gurbani about cutting or not cutting your hair. In Japji Sahib, it is clearly stated to live our life in accordance to the Hukum (The Laws of Nature) or what we call Bhana in Punjabi. This statement encompasses every trivial argument we make like justifying of Cutting of Hair at any part of the body.


Kesh or Bodily Hair grow as per the Hukum (The Laws of Nature) of the Almighty. Cutting edges of hair or plucking or shaving eyebrows or shaving hair from any part of your body is a clear defiance of the Hukum (The Laws of Nature) of the Almighty. <<


Perhaps Laws of Nature encompasses more than what you think and the intended meaning and implications is therefore quite different from how you understand it?
Please consider the following, the comments are my own which admittedly, is a topic I don’t usually think about:

The Five Cosmic Orders.

1. Caloric Order.
2. Germinal Order.
3. Moral Order or Karma.
4. Psychical Order.
5. Natural phenomena sequence.

1. Caloric Order is that which is responsible for the maintenance and disintegration of the material universe. It is what is behind the object of study of the sciences including such things as the origin of the star systems and galaxies and their eventual disintegration. It is the cause for the different seasons and why what germinates where and when. That which people call evolution is in reality a result of this very phenomenon when looked from a particular perspective. Indeed our physical body, much of what it is composed of, is governed by this particular order of things.

2. Germinal Order is about what we identify as the plant kingdom and is what dictates such things as seeds sprout and becomes a tree with its roots, leaves and branches and which then bear fruits. It is that which dictates such things as an apple seed can’t result in a coconut tree.

3. Moral Order or Karma is that by which actions through body, speech and mind occur and these whether they are good or evil. And so too the results which comes from these actions, such as what good and bad experiences through the five senses occur and where and what one is born as and for how long, ugly or beautiful, in a hostile environment or in a place where the Truth is proclaimed, and so on.

Good actions cannot give rise to bad results and bad actions cannot result in good. Indeed this is the reason that people are invariably faced with moral issues even though some do not go far enough as to then believe in the law of cause and effect which is Karma, for e.g. the Christians.

4. Psychical Order is reflected in such things as the ‘thinking process’ always following the experience through the five senses whereby ‘sense’ is made out of those experiences. For example, sound when heard is immediately followed by thinking about what that sound is, or reading of words happening here following the experience of these black and white colours on the computer screen. And not only this, this Order is also the cause for the reactions with good and evil tendencies as per the individual and why different people think variously and have different interests and abilities.

5. Natural phenomena sequence covers all the above and more.
It is due to this that the earth element is distinct from the fire element and one can’t change to the other. Similarly, feeling is not perception, kindness is not cruelty and ignorance is not wisdom and each of these has its own individual characteristic, function, manifestation and proximate cause. And this is the law which dictates that all of these things are conditioned and impermanent and insubstantial.

The natural phenomena sequence is why when there is ignorance, formations or karma arises, and from this rebirth which is the basis for more experience through the five senses resulting in feeling and the craving for this and hence clinging to becoming and all that comes from having been born, namely old age, sickness and death, continually over and over again. And likewise it is that which is behind what causes such phenomena to cease, namely with full enlightenment where no condition for rebirth exists.

In short it is the cause for the general rule, “When that exists, this comes to be. From the arising of that, this arises. When that does not exist, this does not come to be. When that ceases, then this ceases.”

So Aman ji, it would seem to me that the meaning intended by Hukum must primarily be based upon the Moral Order, if not also the last one, namely Natural Phenomena Sequence. All religions after all, emphasize morality and surely Sikhism does this from page one to the last page. Hair and nails are governed by the Caloric Order and would unlikely be a concern to anyone who wishes to grow in goodness and develop wisdom.
====

Quote:
>>The Hukum by the tenth Master to Keep Kesh is simply a reminder to follow this important Hukum of accepting Bhana/The Laws of Nature.<<

Someone suggested reason for the rule for keeping hair as being necessitated due to the social and political situation at the time. Why not go along with this and allow each individual to judge his own situation as to whether he would like to maintain or cut his hair?
====

Quote:
>>But as Tejwant ji stated earlier in this discussion itself, a person who is hell bent upon to defy the word of the Guru or the Hukum, will eventually find any justification. <<

What if indeed the Hukum had nothing to do with the Caloric Order but about Karma and the nature of mind in general? Would not focussing wrongly on the former in fact have a negative influence on one’s ability to understand and follow the dictates of the latter? In any case, wouldn’t the one override the other making it really odd that we should give so much importance to it? Are our values misplaced?

It may be true that these two youngsters in this discussion have other motives as well. Personally, I felt that the original question was wrong to begin with. But then again, is it not possible that other reasons include the inability by the older generation, including those around them encountered so far, to show enough understanding? There is a difference after all, between the truths as taught by Guru Nanak and as they are understood by those who follow his teachings. While you try to promote the teachings, must you not also take into account your own limited understanding?

I’ve been quite forthright, but I hope you do not take it negatively. And of course some assumptions have been made for which I’m ready to be corrected.
 
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Nov 14, 2004
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Jasdir ji,


Belive "I" the real reason behind cutting of hairs:

As in acient times the sikhs was allowed to cut their hairs because
cutting of hairs devlop the outer personality to attrect opposite sex which relatievly devlop the "Ego" called "Haumain" in gurbani,

"Haumain" or "Ego" is known to be a barrier between "God" and "Soul" in gubani,

But now days, what is the use of not cutting hairs or wearing turbens, if we are intrested in wearing stylish turbens, using dyes on hairs, or wearing stylish clothes to devlop our personality,

This is not called Sikhism in deed,

Think "I" Sikhism have lost their Simplicity behind,

"Simple" means "Sadha" in punjabi,

"Sadha" can be called "Sadhu",


Hmm, I think Haumain is conceit and manifests often as comparison. Conceit is so unyielding that it is one of the last evils to get over, after even anger and sensual desire. This is so partly because it comes in very subtle forms beyond the capacity of most people to recognize even conceptually. So while we may recognize some manifestations of this conceit it may well be that in trying to tackle it, we end up having more conceit towards a different object.

There is conceit due to age, being younger or older. There is conceit due to social status and due to learning. There is conceit due to health and due to one’s looks. There is conceit anytime that one compares regardless whether one concludes that one is lesser, greater or equal in standing to the other person. There is conceit when looking in the mirror shaving, putting on hair fixer or combing one’s beard. There is conceit in choosing the colour of tie to match the shirt one has picked out. There is conceit in commenting on someone else’ dress or even when turning one’s head in surprise towards what appears at first sight.

No doubt conceit is really ugly and so unnecessary to have around; however it can’t lessen simply by avoiding trying to look good, in fact it more likely will only increase! Do you really believe someone who wears a turban and wants to look "Sadha", that he achieves any good in this regard? Is his haumain not fully intact? And in thinking otherwise, does he not place himself in fact to have more occasions of conceit?

One reason I’d like to see my own children cut their hair is that they would not have to feel so ‘self-conscious’ (one obvious example of conceit). Had they the necessary understanding to deal with the situation, then I’d not have to be concerned about this. But yes, a Sikh man can’t avoid being the object of attention and hence the associated self-consciousness and all unwanted thought proliferations that are likely to follow. I think it is extremely beneficial to be able to move around unnoticed; given that so much unwholesomeness arises and gets accumulated when one is the center of attraction.
 

Roop Kaur

SPNer
Mar 4, 2010
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I don't get one thing. Sorry if someone has already answered this, I haven't too much time to read through all the posts.

Guru Ji told us not to cut our hair ... but did God?

Also, is there anything in Guru Granth Sahib regarding this?

Sorry, lately so many questions have been flying through my mind and this is just one of them!
 

Admin

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Jun 1, 2004
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My understanding is quite simple:

Our Gurus gave us a majestic identity. So if a Sikh does a good deed, it becomes an example that should be emulated and brings good name to the community and brings to fore the teachings of our Gurus. Manmohan Singh is Sikh and is well known and admired all over the world. So he brings good name to the community because of his unique identity. Now Obama wants to visit the Golden temple because he is so impressed with Manmohan that he wishes to know more about Sikhs.

But when Sikhs do wrong as is becomming increasingly common these days, and the wrong doing is associated with Sikhs then we should be couragious enough to own that a Sikh has done wrong and that is not the way of a true Sikh. But unfortunately we go into denial mode and try to defend the undefendable and get further bad name. There is no escape and there should not be an escape! There cannot be an easy way out! That is simply not being like a Sikh our Gurus wanted us to be.

Gurufateh and Chardiankalan!
 
Nov 14, 2004
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Jasdir ji,


Belive "I" there is also one more reason, well,
Sikhism started with Baba Shri Gurunanak ji,
Gurunanak ever use to wear turben, while guru angand sahib as his sucesser always use to wear turben and continued in whole sikhism,
It is nature that if anybody wants become like anybody the first love starts externally with physical body and slowely it changes into the love with "Soul",
Guru's always teached their disciples to wear turben to show their love for gurus,
by doing like this the qualities of guru's enters naturelly into their disciples or seekers or sikhs, to push them nearby "God"


Years ago on reading one very popular Zen book I came upon the idea that if one sat up in a lotus posture ready to meditate, this is already an expression of the Buddha qualities. At the time I was attracted to the idea, and on a few occasions when I would sit to meditate, the thought gave rise to a sense of achievement. Almost ten years later when I started to meditate again, although by this time I did not believe in the concept of Buddha Nature any more, nevertheless I still had so much attachment to the idea of ‘meditation’ that I relished at the thought of my children starting to do similarly from a very young age.

Clearly, there was nothing that I could point to as having been ‘understood’ as a result of my own meditation practice. Yet I was ready to put my children through any difficulty that must accompany the process of getting them started in this particular activity. On hindsight, it appears that I was only imitating others and wanted my children to do the same. It was indeed an inclination for and attachment to ‘rite and ritual’ which was the driving force.

Now, another ten years down the road, I hesitate to ask my children to ‘give’, lest they do so with an attitude encouraging of a reliance on ‘out ward’ behaviour, rather than understanding the state of mind from which all actions through speech and body generates. In other words, now I would not imitate anyone nor ask my children to follow me or anyone else’s outward actions.


The inclination to imitate and following rites and rituals is deeply rooted and can arise at any time for us, those who have yet so little understanding. Just as the idea of sitting cross-legged being an expression of Buddha nature was so attractive to me at one time, the idea you propose above, is likewise full of danger in this regard. I’d say, it *is* the stuff of rite and ritual!

I don’t know about anyone else, but Guru Nanak, the person well known for pointing out the silliness and danger of following ritualistic behaviour, it would seem that he couldn’t have taught what you claim he did. It is almost like believing in magic, what you say.... Dressing up like how the Guru did believing that one day you will then come to understand what he did.
======
Quote:
>>Well to express the proper feelings i am not having proper words,or it would be a lengthy chapter,
i think this is not the matter of mare talkings,<end quote>


You mean no need to discuss and ask questions, but just follow what you have been told to do? And why would someone who has developed understanding not be able to express what he has come to understand? There is the conditioned reality and there is the unconditioned reality. Growth in wisdom is growing also in the ability to point out with increased precision, the nature of the former and with the help of this, in terms of negation, what the latter is about.

On the other hand, it is symptomatic of the deluded person that he is vague in his expressions and sometimes making reference to some phenomena imagined, to say then that this is beyond description, thereby clearing himself of responsibility for substantiating his claims.
 
Nov 14, 2004
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Jasdir ji,

Quote:
>>>And why would someone who has developed understanding not be able to express what he has come to understand? <<<,

Can anybody define the taste of "Tea" with any other example without giving the example of "Tea",

Some things are only subject to realizeations,<<< <end quote>

OK, so what you are saying is that were you for example, to have experienced the ‘dimension of nothingness’ it would be impossible for you to explain to me what this is like, since all I know and can ever think in terms of is based on experiences within the sensual realm alone. And you are not saying that you would not be able to talk about the subject to someone else who might have had some experience of that particular dimension. Is this what you are saying?

In any case your statements so far, have been mostly on very mundane matters which are conventions based on the experience through the five senses and mind. Besides, if you wish to lead anyone to understand ‘tea’, it is possible to talk about water, tea leaves and heat since after all; the understanding of tea involves not just what it tastes like, but the conditions leading to it coming to be.

There is nothing which is not conditioned and has causes, and so it is always possible to lead others to understand anything at some level. “Understanding” is more than just experiencing, and it starts at the level of hearing and is why teachers of the Truth teach at all. It is wrong to suggest that the other person needs to have the ‘experience’ before there can be any meaningful communication.
=========
Quote:
>>>Now! what i have written in my obove lines is some nearby examples,
But! what about "Mind",
"He" always want's Matter,

"Mind" always want's matter,
"Mind" always start feel boring, When "He" is away from any matter,<<<<end quote>

By ‘mind’ I think you mean ‘consciousness’. There is consciousness which is resultant, as in the experience through the five senses, these of course experience matter. But I think you are alluding to the mind conditioned by greed which is always searching for new experiences? If so, then I’d suggest that greed has *pleasant feeling* (which is not matter) as object much of the time and hence could be said to be searching for such experiences. However, this is got not only from the experiences of such things as tastes, sounds or smells, but also from ideas.

We are attached for example, not to the physical sensation of money, but to the stories associated with the concept. In terms of the experiences through the senses there is nothing particularly special in driving a BMW, but we are attached to the brand name. People enjoy thinking, philosophizing and even speculating. Indeed the attachment which accompanies “views” is the reason why there is such a strong reaction when one’s religion is being questioned / threatened.
 

raminder40

SPNer
May 25, 2010
7
10
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Dear Sceptic ji,

A very informative thread started where learned forum members have tried to justify historically,medically,mythologically,scientifically and of course sikhilogically the significanse of hair and nails respectively.The reasons or Logics have somehow not suited your point of view,which somehow I think is that you are trying to find a reason to sacrifice sikhi in some different garb---logic.

As said by few forum members that it is absolutely your own sweet will to be a sikh or not to a one.But if you chose to a one,you have to accept the tenents of the religion.Every religion and faith has some basic rules,guidelines,parameters,jurisdictions,do's n dont's which makes it distinctive from other religions.There may be logics to everything and there may not be logics to everything.

Irrespective of the situations prevailing during the various Guru's time,each one of them was farsighted and knew the future.This means that if Guru could be specific about hair,He too could have been specific for nails also.So there must have been a definite logic to support His thaughts which might have not been documented (or we are not aware off) for following generations to fall back upon.Since we,including you,are sikhs who bow to SGGS,we accept His supremacy and have no reason to question that.

Its like this that a soldier in a army always tries to find out a reason with his commander before carrying out the orders.Since you too are working in a professional set up which is surely governed by defined guidelines,you can not go and argue with your CEO and figure out the logic behind every guideline or a parameter,but surely a maverick can do so.Yes sikhism is an institution (a very professional if you analyise it since it has very clear thaught process involving well defined guidelines and parameters) with SGGS as the CEO.

I tend to disagree with anyone who claims that sikhi swaroop is a hinderance in progression in any field.There are are innumerable success stories in every field where people have excelled in their chosen fields without compromising the sikhi.So its just a matter of own convenience,but giving it a decent cover of LOGIC.

Guru sammat bakshan..!!!!!

Raminder
 

spnadmin

1947-2014 (Archived)
SPNer
Jun 17, 2004
14,500
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"Majestic identity",

The post sounds brilliant, even divine,

But,Dear sir,
Guru's always advocated their seekers to always be humble & meek, rather to devlop any kind of Identity, or Majestic,
As we have heard several times in bani,

"Humain vada rog hai"
Ego is the barrier between god and soul,

Accept thou death first, abandon the hope of life and be the dust of the feet of all, then alone come to me. -(M 5 Salok 1102-11).

The Lord is the store-house of humility and meekness. In order to be one with Him, we should be as humble and meek as the Lord. He is the Lord of Khands and Brahmands. Everything is within His power. He has the power to do everything. In spite of all these virtues, He renders service to all and looks after them. One may praise Him or speak ill of Him, one may remember Him with love and affection or one may hate Him, but He tolerates all these things with patience. He has reduced Himself to non-entity and His traces cannot be visualised with these eyes.

How beautifully Kabir Sahib has described true humility. He says that one should eschew self-Ego to the extent the Lord has eschewed and of whom no sign is visible. He advises that a true disciple should become like a pebble, like dust and like pure water. However, he finds one fault or the other with them. He concludes that a true servant should be as is the Lord. He says :

O man, if you want to realise God,
renounce thy Ego and be like a pebble lying on the road
which bears the kicks of everybody.
He again says that the pebble may strike and hurt the feet of the travellers,
so you should be like the dust of pathways.
But, still he thinks that the dust spoils the body and clothes of the passers-by.
Then he advises to be like the clean water.
But again he finds fault with the water also as it gets cold and hot
which may be unsuitable to people of different natures.
In the end, he advises us to annihilate our self-ego to the extent the Lord has done
and who has no sign of His existence at all.


Similarly, Guru Arjun Sahib says that so long as man does not accept death and renounces ego, he cannot enter the court of the Lord.



With great respected for learned members discussing on this thread, I still must interrupt with an admin concern.

Full shabads must be posted, with Ang numbers, not an isolated verse, tuk, or pangatee.

Also, it is true that the official language of the forum is English. Posting a shabad in English is very helpful.

However, it is important to have the Gurmukhi and the English together. Here is the reason. Forum members may wish to consider the translation in light of their own understanding of Gurmukhi. They may not agree with the translation and should have a chance to state that and say why. So please in the future post both in Gurmukhi and in English.

Thank you so much.
 
May 24, 2008
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Sikhs are required IMHO to maintain hair so as to maintain distinct identity . The Sikhs should stand out as unique community & not get lost in the crowd was the aim of Guru Gobind Singh Ji because according to JivanSakhis when Guru Teg Bahadur Ji was martyred then none came forward to pick his body though many Sikhs were present . The Sikhs who were required to maintain a strict discipline the beliefs & aims of whom were always at odds with the political & religious set up There was always a danger that Sikhs may try to assimilate under pressure of political powers of the day as well as religious authorities . The similar danger is always lurking living in India especially when we have the examples of two of the oldest religions which sank without a trace ie Jainism & Buddhism so much so that countless efforts to revive these religions have borne no fruit .
Dear Jasdir Ji ,
Please read my above post . I will like to add to it that the outer appearance ( HAIR ) is just a very small REHAT of what Sikhism is requiring . What about the requirement of rising at Amritvela , doing Nitnem , being faithful to one Partner , abstaining from pre-marital & extra marital sex , abstaining from tobacco , alcohal , all intoxicants , abstaining from Halal Meat ( not all meat ) , not going to graves ( peers ) , Brahmins, astrologers , mandirs are all the other requirements of SIKH FAITH . I may bring to your attention that in Indian history many thousand movements started like Bhakti , Yogism ( Gorakh ) Mimasa etc etc all of which sank without a trace , there are even no authentic writings outside of SGGS of Hindu or Muslim Bhagats whose writing are included in SGGS except for those which are already included . Who destroyed all those writings ? Who consumed all those movements , why were they assimilated , many many questions are there . The only probable answer IMHO to all these is perhaps that these were not UNIQUE so they were assimilated & consumed . The reason why Sikhism is still surviving today is ONLY because of HAIR , had they not been compulsory , Brahmins would have been at the helm of affairs at Akal Takhat Sahib like they are at topmost Buddhist & Jainist shrines which is why countless efforts to revive Buddhism ( a major world religion ) & Jainism have borne no fruit & both these religions are lost to India forever .
 
Re: Why are we allowed to cut nails but not hair?

The best way to pleasw God is to roam about naked becaude that is

how God wished us to be.

sorry to say but that was the most ugly and stupid post i have ever read. here is wat Guru Ji says about the point u made.

ਮਿਲੈ ਜਿ ਤੀਰਥਿ ਨਾਤਿਆਂ ਡਡਾਂ ਜਲ ਵਾਸੀ॥ਵਾਲ ਵਧਾਇਆਂ ਪਾਈਐ ਬੜ ਜਟਾਂ ਪਲਾਸੀ॥ਨੰਗੇ ਰਹਿਆਂ ਜੇ ਮਿਲੈ ਵਣਿ ਮਿਰਗ ਉਦਾਸੀ॥ਭਸਮ ਲਾਇ ਜੇ ਪਾਈਐ ਖਰੁ ਖੇਹ ਨਿਵਾਸੀ॥ਜੇ ਪਾਈਐ ਚੁਪ ਕੀਤਿਆਂ ਪਸੂਆਂ ਜੜ ਹਾਸੀ॥ਵਿਣੁ ਗੁਰ ਮੁਕਤਿ ਨ ਹੋਵਈ ਗੁਰ ਮਿਲੈ ਖਲਾਸੀ ॥੧੪॥*

thanks
 
And you go ahead and believe all the non sense that different religions in this world propagate for their own benefit.

Here is a gem of nonsense being preached and this was quoted by a very 'respected' member of this forum 'Soul_Jyot':-

If u think its all non sense that is being taught by all the religions then y u are here debating on different topics. And if u will tell Gurbani nonsense then u r the biggest ******* on this earth along with few others. And it would be a privilege to call u ******* a 100 times for that quote. I am aware that u will come back with a 10 times harder words but that doesn't matters to me. cheerleader icecreamkudi icecreammunda :motherlylove: (sorry the site is not showing the actual words nd m really sorry for that) cheerleader

And better tell ur mother if u dont want to keep hair rather than telling the whole world. And, if u think all the people who are following Guru Ji's Words are fool or something more, remember ur mother is among them. (I'm very very very very sorry to ur mom for the wordings i have used but there is nothing else I can do)


ਗੁਰ ਕੀ ਛਾਪ ਸਿਰ ਕੇਸ ਕੀ ਪਾਹੁਲ, ਦੇਇ ਉਤਾਰ ਸੋ ਬੇਮੁਖ ਜਾਨਹੁ।
ਬੇਟੇ ਕੋ ਬੰਧੁ ਕੋ ਛਾਪ ਮੁੰਡਾਵਤ, ਜਮ ਦੁਖ ਭੋਗ ਕੇ ਪ੍ਰੇਤ ਪਛਾਨਹੁ।
Second part of which means :-
One who shaves the stamp (of the Guru) of their child (i.e. cut their children's hair), realise that person will suffer a terrible death and known as a ghost.

if u r relying on the the translation done by someone, then its ur mistake. the interpretation may vary person to person and it may not be always true.

Anyways, I will pray for me as well as for u. Paramaatma saanu sabb nu Sattbudhi bakshe.

take care :)
 

karam

SPNer
Aug 11, 2010
32
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I beleive you should keep hair if you are a practicing sikh and you follow other moral,ethical and spiritual rules of sikhi from heart, otherwise if you are keeping hair just to fulfill a ritual and you drink at night, you goto clubs etc and live immoral life then I don't see any point in keeping hair, or if you keep hair under pressure from family then you are following an empty ritual, I beleive first follow the moral,ethical commandes of the religion, Guru Nanak beleived that whatever you beleive in truthfully should reflect in your life also,as someone mentioned some where in one of the above posts, being in the hukum of akal purkh, you will accept kesh as part of nature's/waheguru's gift, your submission to Guru and in hukum of akal purkh should reflect outwardly also in sikhi saroop, I don't see a point in ritualistically following something
 
Oct 11, 2006
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Patiala,Punjab.
Re: Why are we allowed to cut nails but not hair?

sorry to say but that was the most ugly and stupid post i have ever read. here is wat Guru Ji says about the point u made.

ਮਿਲੈ ਜਿ ਤੀਰਥਿ ਨਾਤਿਆਂ ਡਡਾਂ ਜਲ ਵਾਸੀ॥ਵਾਲ ਵਧਾਇਆਂ ਪਾਈਐ ਬੜ ਜਟਾਂ ਪਲਾਸੀ॥ਨੰਗੇ ਰਹਿਆਂ ਜੇ ਮਿਲੈ ਵਣਿ ਮਿਰਗ ਉਦਾਸੀ॥ਭਸਮ ਲਾਇ ਜੇ ਪਾਈਐ ਖਰੁ ਖੇਹ ਨਿਵਾਸੀ॥ਜੇ ਪਾਈਐ ਚੁਪ ਕੀਤਿਆਂ ਪਸੂਆਂ ਜੜ ਹਾਸੀ॥ਵਿਣੁ ਗੁਰ ਮੁਕਤਿ ਨ ਹੋਵਈ ਗੁਰ ਮਿਲੈ ਖਲਾਸੀ ॥੧੪॥*

thanks


ManinderSingh ji,
:blinkingmunda:I think human body is the most beautiful thing in the world and that is the reason artists from ancient times have created such wonderful

sculutres of the human body all over the world,e.g. in Greece, Rome and even in India.

It is the perverted mind that sees uglyness in a naked body.

If you believe that God created us ugly ,how can you say in the same breath that the hair is beautiful?swordfight
 

Mai Harinder Kaur

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Oct 5, 2006
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Re: Why are we allowed to cut nails but not hair?

ManinderSingh ji,
:blinkingmunda:I think human body is the most beautiful thing in the world and that is the reason artists from ancient times have created such wonderful

scultures all over the world,e.g. in Greece, Rome and even in India.

It is the pervertd mind that sees uglyness in a naked body.

If you believe that God created us ugly ,how can you say in the same breath that the hair is beautiful?swordfight
I do not believe that anywhere here is anything suggesting the human body, clothed or unclothed is ugly. What is ugly is the writer's making it into simply an object of lust. And that is ugly, indeed!
 

spnadmin

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Jun 17, 2004
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Re: Why are we allowed to cut nails but not hair?

ManinderSingh ji,
:blinkingmunda:I think human body is the most beautiful thing in the world and that is the reason artists from ancient times have created such wonderful

scultures all over the world,e.g. in Greece, Rome and even in India.

It is the pervertd mind that sees uglyness in a naked body.

If you believe that God created us ugly ,how can you say in the same breath that the hair is beautiful?swordfight

jasbirkaleka ji

I think it is a good thing that you went on to explain your point of view. It is much clearer now. Earlier it almost sounded as if you were being sarcastic. Perhaps not, but some readers may not have understood what you meant.
 

Sevadar

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May 24, 2010
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jasbirkaleka
The best way to pleasw God is to roam about naked becaude that is how God wished us to be.
Finally a voice of reason! If that was one of the tenants of Sikhi, I would have been a big fan of our entire philosophy.

After going through these logics
The question that comes to my mind is why Didn't god made us self sustainable organism, may be chlorophyll for energy and asexual reproduction and so forth..... If you really want to stretch your thought then their is no limit...
Their is no GPS routing for spiritual path if you want to walk it, you will only know better ways and will found why those paths are made that way when you will put your self on that journey.....as wise men said can't know the depth of river sitting on banks.

Good Luck....:confusedmunda:
 
Sep 8, 2010
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Los Angeles
Thank you everyone for contributing to the thread!

I was constantly reading the posts even while traveling but couldn't find an opportunity to respond to any of the posts.

The common theme that seems to have emerged in majority of the posts after I left is that we shouldn't really be looking for a rational or logical reason to do something that our religion asks us to do and instead we should do it because of our faith.

Since I had some time to reflect, I understand this line of thought much better now. I might not agree with it but I fully understand why a person with deep faith would think on these lines.

Now I realise that probably I wasn't clear myself as to what I wanted to ask. My problem probably isn't with the reason behind keeping my hair. If I had enough faith I wouldn't be asking this question at all. My problem seems more because of my lack of faith.

And faith isn't something you can generate within yourself. You either have it or you don't. And when you do convert from one side to another, it's not usually because you found some real good reasoning to have faith or to not have it. It's mostly because of your state of mind and events that happen in your life. So although I am tempted to ask if someone could give me a good reason to have faith in our religion, I do realise it would be a silly question because of the above mentioned reasons.

Some of the members mentioned that the 'reason' behind them keeping their hair is their belief in our Guru's teachings. That makes sense when I consider that these people have firm faith in the religion. But I don't anymore, and that's my problem.

What a person of faith calls 'belief' is just a plain superstition for a person like me who doesn't really have enough faith. I have an aunt in India who refuse to follow a route if a black cat crosses her path. Now for me it is a blind superstition since there is no logical reason behind her behavior, but since she really believes in it, for her it's her 'belief'. She just chooses to believe without looking for reason.

I don't know where I am headed spiritually, but that's probably my own journey and no one can help me with that.

Some of the members had recommended listening to Gurbani to find the answers. I tried going through english translations and did cover lot of text. But I realised even that doesn't do anything for you if you don't really believe in what you are reading. And that probably is the case with me. My mind continues to search for reason behind what is being said in the Gurbani and I find none. At least not right now.
Anyways, I will continue to read and see where it takes me.

And some of the members who joined the thread quite late, again tried to give some 'logical' reasons as to why we should keep hair on the lines of heat conservation etc. I think I already discussed and refuted all the similar reasons in the very beginning of the thread, specially the article by Dr. Brinda Kaur. So I won't respond to those 'reasons'.

As for Harryputtar89's posts, although I agree with his content, still I do not agree with the language he used. Discussions should remain civil no matter how contentious the issue might be!
 

kds1980

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Apr 3, 2005
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As for Harryputtar89's posts, although I agree with his content, still I do not agree with the language he used. Discussions should remain civil no matter how contentious the issue might be!
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Dear skeptic

Do You think mods and admins on this site are fools? Harryputtar is your second ID on this sitehttp://www.sikhphilosophy.net/editpost.php?do=editpost&p=133662
 
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