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Mai Harinder Kaur

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Oct 5, 2006
1,755
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Dear Lionchild,

I agree with part of what you say. My Dad always taught us that Sikhs don't argue about religion. And hatred :}--}: is one of the evils we fight against within ourselves.

However,

i was told recently that when two people argue, they are both wrong
Just a suggestion...:unsure:

Don't believe everything you're told.

But don't take me too seriously, I'm in one of my moods tonight,:{;o:
 
Feb 14, 2006
512
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One can believe in jesus, and recognise other prophets and gurus, though we may not follow all of them aund their specific teachings. We should remember that all of gods messengers have something worth while to give to us all and have good advice for our every day issues.
You are naive. Just listen to what the Jewish community has to say about Christian missionary Evangelism, which is the point of discussion, not hate and intolerance of another religion. Rather it is the right of self-preservation and self-respect to counter negative, anti-Sikh propaganda and seduction of Christian missionary message. We have our own religion. We have our own Guru. We don't need to hear undermining of our faith and promotion of some other path. This isn't even a discussion...it's a conversion attempt. Or perhaps you don't recognize the difference, since you converted to Bahai and renounced faith in Sikhism. I'm trying to educate my Sikh brothers and sisters about the real history of Christianity and Giovernment intolerance of people of color and other faiths, not because it's history, but because it's still happening. It's not out of hate I share these things, but because I love the individual dignity of you all. KNOW THE TRUTH AND BE INFORMED!!!!! DON'T LET THIS HISTORY REPEAT ITSELF! KNOW THE VALUE OF YOUR OWN RACE, CULTURE, RELIGION WHATEVER IT IS. MISSIONARIES ARE AFFRONT TO HUMAN DECENCY!
"Evangelical Protestants, who now number over 75 million in North America, devote more than $250 million per year and a tremendous amount of energy to promote their faith among Jews. These Evangelicals fund over 900 different ministries in North America alone, that specifically target the Jewish community for conversion."

Why are these missionaries so successful?
There are two significant factors. The first is the increasing vulnerability of Jews due to a lack of solid Jewish education and meaningful Jewish spiritual experiences. The second is the missionaries’ development of a sophisticated marketing strategy designed to overcome resistance to conversion and feelings of guilt by promoting the deceptive message, “It’s Jewish to believe in Jesus..." They distort the meanings of these practices, claiming, for example, that the three matzos at the Passover Seder symbolize the Christian Trinity. In addition, they frequently use misleading euphemisms, such as ‘rabbi’ in place of pastor, ‘become a completed Jew’ instead of ‘convert to Christianity’

Original Post to which all subsequent threads are refering, Rajs wrote:
Mohammed or Nanak or Buddha, did not have pre-existence but were born as any other child, according to their parents’ will. Jesus, however, forsaking his spiritual existence, and to do God’s will, took up a body of flesh and blood, to save us from our sinful nature...Mohammed or Nanak or Buddha, did not have pre-existence but were born as any other child, according to their parents’ will. Jesus, however, forsaking his spiritual existence, and to do God’s will, took up a body of flesh and blood, to save us from our sinful nature...

Unlike Mohammed, Nanak, and Buddha, Jesus did not receive a “calling” from God out of the blue; he did not (overnight) receive a revelation to be a messenger of God. He did not need to seek out God in order to learn the meaning of life...Jesus did not need to spend years in solitude to gain wisdom and knowledge. Unlike Mohammed, Nanak, and Buddha, Jesus did not need to seek out God...
A missionary is traditionally defined as a propagator of religion who works to convert those outside that community; someone who proselytizes...The Great Commission is also given in Acts 1:8. The most compelling verse to many is found in the New Testament, where Jesus instructs the apostles to make disciples. (Matthew 28:19). This reference is understood by Christian missionaries as the Great Commission to engage in missionary work...

In the words of one resident of Thailand, "They [Christian missionaries] seemed that they did not show any interest for our culture. Why? They are just eager to build big churches in every village. It seems that they are having two faces; under the title of help they suppress us. To the world, they gained their reputations as benefactors of disappearing tribes... Christians have always portrayed non-Christian civilizations as backwards, underdeveloped, superstitious, and barbaric. What really underlies all of their criticism is that these cultures do not accept Jesus, the Bible and their western way of life...

Today, many are uninformed and believe that mission excesses only took place in prior times and today's preaching works are a 'good thing.' But as long as the basic premises and theology that underly all the abuses that took place in the past are not corrected, the result of mission activities will remain the same: Genocide and destruction of all that lies in its way, replacing it with the 'superior religion and culture' that most missionaries believe they are delivering.

Salespeople often flatter and charm potential customers to prime their receptivity and clinch the sale. Someone’s warmth and friendliness has
nothing to do with the validity of their ideas or sales pitch.

COVER-UP
Missionaries may focus on issues where there is little resistance and may avoid revealing beliefs that are less palatable. For example, they may stress the idea of Jesus as the Messiah while avoiding the bottom-line Christian doctrine that Jesus was actually god incarnate. Missionaries may also gloss over their conviction that good people who don’t accept Jesus will be consigned to eternal damnation in hell. The most effective way to counter the efforts of predatory missionaries is to make ourselves, our families and our communities less vulnerable.

Missionaries can only be successful where there is an educational and spiritual vacuum.
http://www.jewsforjudaism.org/web/byg/pdf/J4J_CMSGW16.pdf

One of the reasons the churches and government are talking so much about reconciliation and healing is they have more to fear from cross-examination than any victim has to fear. I've interviewed hundreds of residential school victims and all you have to do is look in their eyes to see that this isn't being made up. Nobody could make this up. What you also find when you interview victims is generations of continuing abuse...

This talk of a healing fund is a whitewash. It's about keeping what happened off the record, about keeping it vague and generic. For instance, I'm not a Catholic, but it's as if I said "Father, forgive me. It's been two weeks since my last confession, but I don't really want to get into the specifics because we'd be here all day. So for any sins I may have committed, am about to commit or that people may say I've committed, just give me blanket generic forgiveness and let's get on with it." I don't think that would wash. But that's precisely what they're proposing to do. They ask for generic forgiveness. And when you say what they're asking forgiveness for, they say, "Get over it. We don't need to dwell on the past. It's morbid..."


There's a powerful lesson here. The reason they don't want to get into specifics is because what went on is genocide. That word has been misused and trivialized but we do have a definition that originated in the writings of Raphael Lemkin. It's codified in Article 2 of the 1948 Convention on Genocide...

If they want to reject this, they're rejecting their own gospel. Their own gospel says that you don't just ask for forgiveness. You have to make atonement, you have to make it right, you have to reach out. They don't want it to come out that what they intended to do was not a mistake. This stuff that they meant well, that they wanted to bring the gospel of Jesus to the savages. No, they didn't mean well. They meant to destroy us. There's nothing well-meaning about sexually molesting kids and beating them for speaking their languages or being left-handed. They were not well-meaning. They never brought the message of Jesus to their own children by molesting them and beating them. It was only Indian children they did that to...

By dehumanizing these people with racist caricatures, they make it easy to brutalize, easy for a "good Christian" to molest a child and not suffer the cognitive dissonance and suffer the angst, because it's no longer like you're molesting a real person. It's only an Indian you're molesting. It's not like you're killing a real person.

Raphael Lemkin, who coined the word genocide, said that genocide involved two phases. The first is destruction of the national pattern of the oppressed group. The second is imposing the national pattern of the dominating group. So the first phase is to strip the people down of their identity, self-worth, self-esteem, history, knowledge of themselves, ability to relate to each other and be comfortable with each other. Set them at each others' throats. Make them competitors. The second phase is to impose a whole new value system on them. It's not enough just to destroy the Indian ways. You've got to impose whole new ways.

And that's exactly what the residential schools did, just like in boot camp. The first phase - if you ask anybody who was in the schools - is to strip you down, dissociate you from any connection with your value system, your family, your religion. The first part is to make you feel totally worthless, so that anything you have is what they gave you, any self worth came from them, not from you or your people or history...

First, you de-Indianize them - beat them down so they associate being Indian with being worthless, inferior, dirty, backward, illiterate.

After that, comes the second phase: imposing the national pattern of the oppressing group. And what they do then is transplant a whole system of ideas. "Well, yes, you're God's child, but the only way for you to have salvation is to forget where you came from, forget that Indian stuff...

And not only break with them, but sell them out...

That's why they don't want the residential school issues brought to court except through their shrinks and their certified lawyers and their courts, because once they get under real cross-examination they're afraid we'll really go crazy. You would see specifics and names: that a crown minister of justice is a pedophile, that a RCMP superintendent is covering up murders, that an esteemed cabinet minister from a liberal government is involved in molesting children. You would start seeing what happened in the schools: so-called teachers who would force a child to eat her own feces or maggot-infested food or pierce a child's tongue or use one child to bully another, to be an enforcer.

One reason the churches are so afraid is that the facts are coming out and they're irrefutable.

CHRISTIAN MISSIONARY EVANGELISM HAS AS IT'S SOLE AIM AND PURPOSE, NOT TO SAVE YOU, BUT TO DESTROY WHAT YOU ARE!!!
 
May 16, 2005
341
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Vernon, BC Canada
Dear Lionchild,

I agree with part of what you say. My Dad always taught us that Sikhs don't argue about religion. And hatred :}--}: is one of the evils we fight against within ourselves.

Don't believe everything you're told.

But don't take me too seriously, I'm in one of my moods tonight,:{;o:

Your right, i don't believe everything that people tell me. :wink:
 
Feb 14, 2006
512
31
Your right, i don't believe everything that people tell me.
That why I cite references and links. The Canadian Government/Christian Boarding School Lawsuits have amassed more than 1.9 billion dollars in fines against the Anglican Church, the Presbyterian Church, the United Church of Christ and the Roman Catholic Church for crimes of genocide against Native Indian children.

It's not idle comments, it's provable sad reality. And if you study those cases, what you will see indicted is the very racist core of missionary evangelism, and the imputation that other races, cultures, religions are inferior to Christianity. This is why governments and promoters of assimilation and western culture publically fund and support the missionary effort. Crimes of this magnitude compel re-evaluation of policies, practices and cherished assumptions long considered unassailable institutions.

Yes don't believe idle words. I invite you to investigate the truth for yourself. It's bigger than you think.


**WINNER: BEST INTERNATIONAL DOCUMENTARY - 2006 LOS ANGELES INDEPENDENT FILM FESTIVAL. WINNER:
BEST DIRECTOR for an INTERNATIONAL ... all » DOCUMENTARY - 2006 NEW YORK INTERNATIONAL FILM FESTIVAL.
excerpt..."This documentary reveals Canada's darkest secret - the deliberate extermination of indigenous
(Native American) peoples and the theft of their land under the guise of religion. This never before told history
as seen through the eyes of this former minister (Kevin Annett) who blew the whistle on his own church, after he
learned of thousands of murders in its Indian Residential Schools..."

YouTube - The Residential Schools Settlement Farce

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-6637396204037343133&q=canadian+indian+schools&hl=en
Kevin Annett & The Truth Commission

Canadian settlement enters crucial phase : ICT [2007/04/27]

Hidden from History: The Canadian Holocaust

"This talk of a healing fund is a whitewash. It's about keeping what happened off the record, about keeping it vague and generic...There's a powerful lesson here. The reason they don't want to get into specifics is because what went on is genocide."

-James Craven, Solicitor General of the Blackfoot Nation and tribal judge
Program of The Truth Commission into Genocide in Canada Approved and Ratified May 8, 2002

4. The immediate surrendering to this Tribunal of all persons who have or are presently engaged in acts of Genocide, violence and abuse of native people in Canada, including but not restricted to acts of pedophilia, child prostitution and pornography, rape, murder, torture, kidnapping, forced labour, theft of traditional native lands and resources, ethnic cleansing, sexual sterilization, medical experimentation, and any form of assault, impoverishment, segregation, discrimination or coercion designed to eradicate indigenous peoples and their way of life.

5. The surrendering and publicizing of all documents, records, and other evidence held by the government of Canada, the RCMP, and the Roman Catholic, Anglican, Presbyterian and United Churches, which relate to any of the aforementioned crimes committed by them and their employees on indigenous people in Canada.

6. The immediate and unconditional revoking of the charitable, tax-free status of the Roman Catholic, Anglican, Presbyterian and United Churches in Canada, and the collection of all back taxes owed by these bodies, because of their criminal role in planning, practicing and concealing the deliberate Genocide of non-Christian aboriginal peoples in Canada for more than a century.

http://canadiangenocide.nativeweb.org/program.html
-DON'T COLLABORATE WITH THE MISSIONARY AGENDA!
-OPPOSE EVIL!
-OPPOSE OPPRESSION!
-DEMAND HONEST ACCOUNTABILITY!
-DEMAND RESTITUTION!
-DEMAND RESPECT AND PROTECTION OF MINORITY CULTURES!

UNTIL CHRISTIANITY, AS REPRESENTED BY MULTI-NATIONAL INSTITUTIONS AND WORLD CHURCHES, VOLUNTARILY ACKNOWLEDGES AND TRIES TO REPAIR THE DAMAGES AND HARMS OF IT'S PAST, IT HAS NO CREDIBLE VOICE TO PROMOTE IT'S OWN SUPREMACY AS A RELIGION.
 
May 16, 2005
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Vernon, BC Canada
Funny you mention residentail schools, my dad was sent to one in his youth, and was nearly killed in that school. Many of our people where sent to those schools, raped of our culture and language, and also what dignity we had left. That is why there are so many negative things and discimination against the first nations communities today.

Of course, one should pick up themselves and move on, but these past experiences have made their scars on our people already.

I believe in finding people who may be interested in a faith, not making people believe in a way of life.
 

dps.1976

SPNer
May 12, 2007
4
0
The real thing is that the person concerned has no idea about sikhism.He is totally drowned in falsehood and has left the real religion of God (as it was created by the hukam of god ,sucessfully carried out by the true ten gurus).He was blessed to have got the true guru as he was born in sikh family but may be due to his bad deeds or reasons better known to God he has left or truely speeking god has left him as he has joined the religion of falsehood that is christanity.What is authenticity of bible.It was never written by jesus .Then who wrote it? May be a third grade writer dyeing for publicity? On the contrary, Shahib Sri Guru Granth Sahib was written and compiled by ther sikh Gurus themselves and contain the message of god in the form ,God spoke or wanted it to be(dhur ki bani,bani nirankar hai)
My dear friend you seem to be educated but then tell me how a virgin can bear child?Does"nt that child indicates some illegitimate relationship? Why a so called son of god requires a illegitimate relationship?
God is formless and does not have children, father or mother.
Guru nanak the true guru was the form of the formless .jesus cant even be compared to Guru Nanak.
comparing Guru Nanak is like comparing sun (Guru Nanak) to darkness (jesus).
only fools can compare these to different things.
so my dear friend instead of criticising the true religion and then pay for this crime in court of lord come back to sikhism as this is the religion that has always accepted the down trodden, bhule -bhatke people.
 

lovely_silky

SPNer
Feb 22, 2007
29
0
kmaal hai bai, calling yourself a Sikh and comparing Guru Nanak and jesus, like this. Guru da kukam t hai:

page-1083/84

MARU, FIFTH MEHL: O slave of the inaccessible Lord God Allah, forsake thoughts of worldly entanglements. Become the dust of the feet of the humble fakeers, and consider yourself a traveller on this journey. O saintly dervish, you shall be approved in the Court of the Lord. || 1 || Let Truth be your prayer, and faith your prayer-mat. Subdue your desires, and overcome your hopes. Let your body be the mosque, and your mind the priest. Let true purity be God's Word for you. || 2 || Let your practice be to live the spiritual life. Let your spiritual cleansing be to renounce the world and seek God. Let control of the mind be your spiritual wisdom, O holy man; meeting with God, you shall never die again. || 3 || Practice within your heart the teachings of the Koran and the Bible; restrain the ten sensory organs from straying into evil. Tie up the five demons of desire with faith, charity and contentment, and you shall be acceptable. || 4 || Let compassion be your Mecca, and the dust of the feet of the holy your fast. Let Paradise be your practice of the Prophet's Word. God is the beauty, the light and the fragrance. Meditation on Allah is the secluded meditation chamber. || 5 || He alone is a Qazi, who practices the Truth. He alone is a Haji, a pilgrim to Mecca, who purifies his heart. He alone is a Mullah, who banishes evil; he alone is a saintly dervish, who takes the Support of the Lord's Praise. || 6 || Always, at every moment, remember God, the Creator within your heart. Let your meditation beads be the subjugation of the ten senses. Let good conduct and self-restraint be your circumcision. || 7 || You must know in your heart that everything is temporary. Family, household and siblings are all entanglements. Kings, rulers and nobles are mortal and transitory; only God's Gate is the permanent place. || 8 || First, is the Lord's Praise; second, contentment; third, humility, and fourth, giving to charities. Fifth is to hold one's desires in restraint. These are the five most sublime daily prayers. || 9 || Let your daily worship be the knowledge that God is everywhere. Let renunciation of evil actions be the water-jug you carry. Let realization of the One Lord God be your call to prayer; be a good child of God - let this be your trumpet. || 10 || Let what is earned righteously be your blessed food. Wash away pollution with the river of your heart. One who realizes the Prophet attains heaven. Azraa-eel, the Messenger of Death, does not cast him into hell. || 11 || Let good deeds be your body, and faith your bride. Play and enjoy the Lord's love and delight. Purify what is impure, and let the Lord's Presence be your religious tradition. Let your total awareness be the turban on your head. || 12 || To be Muslim is to be kind-hearted, and wash away pollution from within the heart. He does not even approach worldly pleasures; he is pure, like flowers, silk, ghee and the deer-skin. || 13 || One who is blessed with the mercy and compassion of the Merciful Lord, is the manliest man among men. He alone is a Shaykh, a preacher, a Haji, and he alone is God's slave, who is blessed with God's Grace. || 14 || The Creator Lord has Creative Power; the Merciful Lord has Mercy. The Praises and the Love of the Merciful Lord are unfathomable. Realize the True Hukam, the Command of the Lord, O Nanak; you shall be released from bondage, and carried across. || 15 || 3 || 12 ||

just a reminder for all of us
 

dps.1976

SPNer
May 12, 2007
4
0
Continueing with my thoughts.
It is mentioned in bible that earth is the centre of universe, there are only seven sky etc etc.but the truth has been found to some thing else.
Then how a can book that has been found to be wrong guide a community?
You cannot kill Galleo every time.
In guru granth sahib Guru Nanak mentioned about the universe 500 years before it was discovered by modern scientists ( patala patal lakh agasa agas)(there are lakh of planets and lakhs of skies).
So by saying that a false book and a so called messenger can save you from hell is nothing but foolishness.
 

sachchasoda

SPNer
Mar 19, 2007
59
2
Dosnt it seems like we are going totally in a different direction.

our Guru's never gave importance to -knowing past and future, as kartaa, kaaran sabh kicch Waheguru Hai. The religion, faith is followed for the Union with the Almighty, not for Evalutating HIS TASK, and comparing between the Saints and Realized Souls- WHO KNOWS MORE?

That's Why GURU JI IS NOT COMPARING THAT AND GUIDING US-
sUhI mhlw 5 ]
isimRiq byd purwx pukwrin poQIAw ]
nwm ibnw siB kUVu gwl@I hoCIAw ]1]
nwmu inDwnu Apwru Bgqw min vsY ]
jnm mrx mohu duKu swDU sMig nsY ]1] rhwau ]
moih bwid AhMkwir srpr ruMinAw ]
suKu n pwiein@ mUil nwm ivCuMinAw ]2]
myrI myrI Dwir bMDin bMiDAw ]
nrik surig Avqwr mwieAw DMiDAw ]3]
soDq soDq soiD qqu bIcwirAw ]
nwm ibnw suKu nwih srpr hwirAw ]4]
Awvih jwih Anyk mir mir jnmqy ]
ibnu bUJy sBu vwid jonI Brmqy ]5]
ijn@ kau Bey dieAwl iqn@ swDU sMgu BieAw ]
AMimRqu hir kw nwmu iqn@I jnI jip lieAw ]6]
Kojih koit AsMK bhuqu Anµq ky ]
ijsu buJwey Awip nyVw iqsu hy ]7]
ivsru nwhI dwqwr Awpxw nwmu dyhu ]
gux gwvw idnu rwiq nwnk cwau eyhu ]8]2]5]16]

Saadh Sangat Ji Bhul Chuk Maaf
 
May 16, 2005
341
11
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Vernon, BC Canada
isnt it the same thing, you pick and choose before exploiting....

ot really, because the person might already be looking for something that your faith my offer to them. They might not have know your faith, but once they realize that is suits their desires, they simply stick with it. That is how i came to where i was, and that explains who converts come to be. Most are not forced or pushed into a faith, they are introduced, and then simply fall in love with it.

There are millions of potential sikhs out in the world, most though dont know it to understand it, or havn't even heard of the sikh faith.

Being born into a faith is more exploiting... as the parents can teach their own brand of religion to them, thus, the children follow in their parents footsteps. And as we know already, the parents do not always follow their faith to the best of their ability :wink:
 
Feb 14, 2006
512
31
ot really, because the person might already be looking for something that your faith my offer to them. They might not have know your faith, but once they realize that is suits their desires, they simply stick with it. That is how i came to where i was, and that explains who converts come to be. Most are not forced or pushed into a faith, they are introduced, and then simply fall in love with it.
There are millions of potential sikhs out in the world, most though dont know it to understand it, or havn't even heard of the sikh faith.

Being born into a faith is more exploiting... as the parents can teach their own brand of religion to them, thus, the children follow in their parents footsteps. And as we know already, the parents do not always follow their faith to the best of their ability
Lionchild, I personally don't have any problem with you being a Bahai convert. I know there is a lot of beauty in Bahai religion. I myself don't agree with it's pacifistic stance to political oppression, but apart from that, the faith is fine, and generally are not known to be missionaries. I'm sorry to have read some of the positions you've held about Sikhism, and believe was largely due to misunderstanding of the teachings, because when you criticize them, you come off the wall from another viewpoint which does not even grasp the point of Sikh belief/practice.

As to your personal experiences? Well, I don't believe every Sikh Gurudwara is in chardhi-kala, or even committee members very well versed in Gursikhi themselves. Not a general judgement, but some Gurudwaras really are lacking in Sikhi parchar. Unfortunately the Jathas you spoke most strongly against are often the ones with the most chardhi-kala youth, and the most outreach to youth and often have many converts (non-prosetlytized), in other words, the Jathas do bring you into Gursikhi and learning Gurmukhi and don't let you flounder alone. But it was not your choice. I can respect that veerji. I don't oppose you personally. But when you take a publically anti-Sikhism stance, and an anti-Sikh tone, I do oppose that. Veerji, thats not right. Why come to a Sikh forum and do this? Don't you have a Bahai forum where you can speak against Sikh religion if it suits you? Or maybe you know they wouldn't allow it. So why do you come to Sikh board and try to evangelize Sikhs against Gursikhi?

This discussion thread is not about your personal conversion experience to Bahai faith. Nor is it a value judgement of degrading other religions in comparison to Sikhism. IT IS A CONFRONTATION OF MISSIONARY EFFORTS TO DEGRADE SIKHI, TO SUBVERT AND TO DISTORT THE SIKH FAITH IN FRONT OF SIKHS, AND BY UNDERMINING THAT FAITH, TO GAIN CONVERTS! This has nothing to do with love. It's a very historically effective form of ideological warfare.

Veerji, you cannot deny that hundreds of millions of dollars and enormous pressure is behind Christian and Muslim evangelism. And THIS, is a literal reality. Do you even bother to read the links I post? The weight of the evidence of aggressive missionary campaign is undeniable!

How dare you say being born into a faith is more exploiting! You utterly invalidate Sikh faith now as you have on past threads saying the Sikh kids were pure until they got corrupted by their parents.

I suppose Sikh kids who cut the hair, discard kakkars, disregard teachings of the Gurus and convert to some Jesus group where they renounce everything taught by Gursikhi, or begin to publically insult Sikh Guru's as Muslim converts are free from exploitation? Veerji, thats cultural genocide. Stop defending the indefensible!

It begs the question, since you have publically renounced Sikh religion, and have publically criticized Sikh religion endlessly,

why are you on a missionary thread, defending missionary outreach as something to fall in love with, neglecting to confront the very unflattering and unloving way in which you and other missionaries undermine Sikh religion and practice, and imply since kids are exploited by the faith their parents, they are in need of liberation by conversion?

Why do you take such hostile positions veerji? Why are you so anti-Sikh?
 

GuruPyaara

SPNer
May 5, 2007
35
3
ot really, because the person might already be looking for something that your faith my offer to them. They might not have know your faith, but once they realize that is suits their desires, they simply stick with it. That is how i came to where i was, and that explains who converts come to be. Most are not forced or pushed into a faith, they are introduced, and then simply fall in love with it.

There are millions of potential sikhs out in the world, most though dont know it to understand it, or havn't even heard of the sikh faith.

Being born into a faith is more exploiting... as the parents can teach their own brand of religion to them, thus, the children follow in their parents footsteps. And as we know already, the parents do not always follow their faith to the best of their ability :wink:

this statement of yours shows that you are not in touch with the reality at all. this is all Bahai mat is teaching you- surprising!
without knowing the truth, others religion and values look empty, no wonder you are lost in the work of 'evaluation of others' :) where it can take one!:unsure:
 

always001

SPNer
May 8, 2007
1
0
Why do I believe in Jesus? (An ex-Sikh’s Journey in Faith)

What makes Christianity different from all other religions in the world? Why is Jesus different from the likes of, Mohammed, Buddha, Guru Nanak, Krishna and Rama? Let me begin by emphasizing that I am not going to get into the details and specifics of various religions in the world today, but primarily concentrate on the basis of a faith. In monotheist religions, such as, Islam and Sikhism the basis of faith is one central figure, who had a direct interaction with God and becomes a channel to deliver God’s message; Mohammed for Muslims, Guru Nanak for Sikhs. In other religions, such as Hinduism and Buddhism, god(s) comes in all forms, shapes, and sizes.

Now, let’s take a look at various chosen individuals from other religions and see what sets Jesus apart from all of them.

Buddha:
Gautam Buddha (500 BC), the founder of Buddhism, gave up materialistic world at the age of thirty to become a monk. He left his kingdom, young wife and a child to pursue a spiritual journey. During his search, he went from one extreme of fasting and forsaking all form of pleasures to taking food in moderation, and then finally, one day under a tree he received spiritual enlightenment. Later, his wife and son also became monks and at the age of eighty HE DIED of an illness, after eating some unclean food!

Mohammed:
Mohammed, referred to as, the Prophet in Islam, was born in 570 AD. He grew up a charitable person, given to much praying and fasting. As a young man he was hired by a widow, who later married him and bore him six children, of which, all died save for a daughter. At the age of forty, Mohammed, had a visit from an angel (Gabriel) and received a divine message from God to tell others that, “there is no other god but Allah.” Mohammed initially encountered great opposition from people but later found acceptance all over the Arab world. He went on to lead many expeditions and wars in Mecca and Medina region, in order to, remove idolatry and advance Islam. In 632 AD, few days after returning from pilgrim in Mecca, HE DIED of an illness.



Nanak:
Guru Nanak, the founding figure of Sikhism, was born in 1469, a gentle and kind hearted family man with a wife and children. One day, as he dips into a river for a regular bath, has a divine encounter and emerges with knowledge and message of universal brotherhood. While living in India at a time, when Hindus and Muslims are in constant conflict, Nanak begins to teach about the existence of one God alone as the creator of all life, and the brotherhood of all humans i.e., there is no difference in Hindus and Muslims. Nanak, apparently spent rest of his life traveling through out Northern India, Pakistan, Afghanistan and Persia proclaiming this message. HE DIED at the age of seventy. However, nine further “Gurus” (spiritual authorities) were anointed to lead this religious movement. The last Guru, Gobind Singh, before DYING, put an end to this transfer of divine ruler-ship by proclaiming their scriptures “Granth Sahib” to be the supreme authority for all believers. It is ironic, that the original message given by Nanak “there is no Hindu nor Muslim but all are equal,” ended up forming a new identity, to be called a Sikh (disciple) or, to be known as Khalsa (pure) if baptized.

Brahma/Vishnu/Shiva:
In Hinduism - Brahma the “creator,” Vishnu the “protector,” and Shiva the “destroyer” - form a trinity. Only Vishnu is capable of taking Avtaar (to be born in human flesh) to rid the earth of evil. However, they are not mutually one, but have separate existence and different functions. Humans can realize the presence of God in “self” through a cycle of re-births, which is dependent on Karma (good works.)



Krishna:
Krishna, one of the Hindu gods, is one of the many reincarnations of god (Vishnu) in human form. As an incarnated god, Krishna, from his childhood to teen years, is a mischievous but cute “child-thief” who leads other kids in breaking into homes to steal butter! As a young man, he is a “heart-throb,” who spends his time frolicking with the young women of the village and is renown for his beauty and, charming women with his flute playing abilities. Ultimately, Krishna kills the evil king of that time and restores the rightful person to his throne. For a Hindu, Krishna leaves numerous traditional stories about his endeavors as a irresistible lover, and a non-partisan chariot driver in a great family feud between Pandavas and Kauravas. Then one day, apparently wounded by a hunter’s arrow, HE DIED.



Ram:
Ram, once again is another incarnated god (Vishnu) who appeared on earth to remove evil and establish good. Whilst on a fourteen-year exile away from his domicile, Ram, destroys an evil empire ruled by a demonic king and his demonic brothers, who had kidnapped Sita, Ram’s wife. However, later on, after completing his exile and returning to his kingdom, Ram, casts out his wife because of rumors regarding her “purity” during the time of her ordeal as a kidnapped victim, even though, she had proven her purity by walking through a fire! Ram, ruled as a great and wise king, creating a “Ram-Rajya” meaning peaceful and a perfect kingdom. Finally one day, HE DIED.



Jesus:
Jesus, as “the” Son of God, is God. The Bible tells us, “The Son is the radiance of God’s glory and exact representation of his being.” (Hebrews 1:3) We, humans, are fallen beings born with a sinful nature, and can never ever attain holiness through effort and good works because by nature our tendency is to sin. For God to accept us, our sinfulness had to be addressed, and since we are incapable of forsaking our sinful nature, Jesus, the Son of God, came to redeem us and sacrificed his life on our behalf. “…The punishment that brought us peace was upon him, and by his wounds we are healed.” (Isaiah 53:5) God accepted Jesus’ sacrifice because he was sinless. Therefore, once we accept Jesus, as our personal Savior, we inherit his righteousness because he shed his blood for the remission of our sins. The Bible says about Jesus, “He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation…For God was pleased to have all his fullness dwell in him, and through him to reconcile to himself all things…by making peace through his blood, shed on the cross.” (Colossians 1:15-19)

I have only provided briefest of introduction to the “originators” of various faiths. I have decided to concentrate on the founders because that gives the clearest indication, as to why Jesus is different! The character and divine attributes that were evident in Jesus, as he manifested himself to his followers during his life on earth are as follows:

1. Existed before the world was created:
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was with God in the beginning. Through Him all things were made; without Him nothing was made that has been made. In Him was life, and that life was the light of men. (John 1:1)

Jesus was NOT created after God created the world but, in fact, through him all things were made. He was not created from dust like Adam and Eve. He is the image of the invisible God, the first born over all creation. For by him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones powers or rulers or authorities; all things were created by him and for him. He is before all things and in him all things hold together. (Colossians 1:15)

Mohammed or Nanak or Buddha, did not have pre-existence but were born as any other child, according to their parents’ will. Jesus, however, forsaking his spiritual existence, and to do God’s will, took up a body of flesh and blood, to save us from our sinful nature. He was born not because of parents’ will, but was born of the Holy Spirit. The Word became flesh and made His dwelling among us. (John 1:14)

During his ministry, Jews of Jesus’ time often questioned and asked him, as to who was he? “I tell you the Truth,” Jesus answered, “before Abraham was born, I AM!” Therefore, Jesus substantiated his pre-existence.

2. His coming into the world was foretold:
Therefore the Lord Himself will give you a sign: The virgin will be with child and will give birth to a son, and will call him Immanuel. (Isaiah 7:14)

None of the messengers or prophets of other religions had their birth predestined and foretold like Jesus.

Prophet Isaiah, filled with the Holy Spirit, not only prophesied Jesus’ birth hundreds of years ago before it took place, but also proclaimed him to be God. …But in the future He will honor Galilee of the Gentiles, by the way of the sea …For to us a child is born, to us a son is given, and the government will be on his shoulders. And he will be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace. (Isaiah 9:1)

Prophet Micah, prophesied the exact location of Jesus’ birth, and also confirmed his eternal existence. But you, Bethlehem Ephrathah, though you are small among the clans of Judah, out you will come for me one who will be ruler over Israel, whose origins are from of old, from days of eternity. (Micah 5:2)

3. The Son of God
The aged, righteous and devout Simeon at the Temple, on seeing Jesus as an eight-day old baby, praised God, saying: “Sovereign Lord, as you have promised, you now dismiss your servant in peace. For my eyes have seen your salvation, which you have prepared in the sight of all people, a light for revelation to the Gentiles and for glory to your people Israel.” (Luke 2:29)

From his early childhood, Jesus knew who he was. When at the age of twelve, during a visit to Jerusalem, he got separated from his parents who later questioned him regarding his behavior - “Why were you searching for me?” he asked. “Didn’t you know I had to be in my father’s house?” (Luke 2:49)

God, himself, called out from heaven to declare Jesus as His Son. As soon as Jesus was baptized, he went up out of the water. At that moment heaven was opened and the Spirit of God descended like a dove and lighted on him. And a voice from heaven said, “This is my Son, whom I love; with him I am well pleased.” (Matthew 3:16)

Jesus told his disciples, “All things have been committed to me by my father. No one knows who the Son is except the Father, and no one knows who the Father is except the Son and those to whom the Son chooses to reveal him.” (Luke 10:22)

4. He knew his mission:
Unlike Mohammed, Nanak, and Buddha, Jesus did not receive a “calling” from God out of the blue; he did not (overnight) receive a revelation to be a messenger of God. He did not need to seek out God in order to learn the meaning of life. To the contrary, he declared, “I am the way, the truth, and the life.” (John 3:16)

Jesus came to show the compassion and love that God has for us. Prophet Isaiah prophesied regarding Jesus, “I, the Lord, have called you in righteousness; I will take hold of your hand. I will keep you and will make you to be covenant for the people and a light for the Gentiles, to open eyes that are blind, to free captives that are in prison, and to release from the dungeon those who sit in the darkness.” (Isaiah 42:6) During his ministry, Jesus healed the sick, gave sight to blind, freed people from demonic powers and raised the dead.

Jesus did not lay down rules and regulations for prayer. He did not advice to visit some holy site to atone for our sins. Jesus came to relieve us from the burden of sin. He said, “Come to me, all you who are weary and burdened, and I will give you rest. Take my yoke upon you and learn from me, for I am gentle and humble in heart, and you will find rest for your souls. For my yoke is easy and my burden is light.” (Matthew 11:28)

Jesus summed up his coming into the world in a very simple, yet graceful and divinatory statement -

For even the Son of Man did not come to be served, but to serve, and to give his life as a ransom for many. (Mark 10:45)

5. Taught with authority:
God said to Moses, “I will raise up for them a prophet like you among from among their brothers; I will put my words in His mouth, and He will tell them everything I command Him.” (Deuteronomy 18:18)

Jesus did not need to spend years in solitude to gain wisdom and knowledge. Unlike Mohammed, Nanak, and Buddha, Jesus did not need to seek out God. He did not need a divine revelation or a visit from an angel to reveal the mind of God. In fact, Jesus was raised among the most backward considered Jewish people, the Galileans. Jewish religious leaders of Jesus’ time told Nicodemus (one of the leaders) that “a prophet does not come out of Galilee.” (John 7:52) However, after listening to Jesus in the Temple at the feast of Tabernacles, “the Jews were amazed and asked, “How did this man get such learning without having studied?” (John 7:15) Jesus did not need to study the scriptures to understand and comprehend its meaning. Jesus knew the scriptures inside out because the Bible says, “In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.” (John 1:1)

Moreover, during his ministry, Pharisees and Jewish leaders observed that Jesus not only broke the Sabbath rules but also forgave people their sins, which made Jesus equal to God. (Matthew 9:24) Pharisees accused Jesus of blasphemy, and on numerous occasions tried to stone him to death. (Matthew 12:14) But, they were afraid of large crowds that seem to follow Jesus everywhere he went. To the religious authorities, Jesus said, “Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the prophets, I have not come to abolish but to fulfill them.” (Matthew 5:17) And the Temple guards, who were sent to arrest Jesus, came back and declared, “No one ever spoke the way this man does.” (John 7:46)


Through out the Gospels, we read that ordinary people were amazed, and astonished at Jesus’ teachings.

When Jesus had finished saying all these things, the crowds were amazed at his teaching, because he taught as one who had authority, and not as their teachers of the law. (Matthew 7:28)

Not only the miracles performed by Jesus captured their attention but his explanation of the scriptures through the use of parables, his examples of tales taken from everyday life, and the authority with which Jesus spoke of God made them follow him everywhere he went. The disciples, on seeing Jesus subside a storm, in fear and amazement they asked one another, “Who is this? He commands even the winds and the water, and they obey him.” (Luke 8:24)

Finally, to fulfill what God (the Father) had said to Moses, Jesus affirmed, “For I did not speak of my own accord, but the Father who sent me commanded me what to say and how to say it. I know that His command leads to eternal life. So whatever I say is just what the Father has told me to say.” (John 12:49)

6. Died willingly for a purpose
For all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God. (Romans 3:23) Jesus’ mission was to redeem mankind from its sinful nature. As humans, no matter how much we try, we could never measure up to God’s standard of holiness. Throughout the Old Testament, the Israelites proved this point again and again. Had God chosen some other people instead of the Jews, I do not think the 100% failure rate would have been any different. But, in His Son Jesus, God found a perfect sacrifice to restore fallen humanity back to Him. Jesus came to redeem us by sacrificing his life on our behalf. God made him who had no sin to be a sin offering for us, so that in him we might become the righteousness of God. (2 Corinthians 5:21) Although Jesus died, but he died willingly, fully knowing in advance, the day, the time and the manner in which he would die. Whilst, the likes of Mohammed, Nanak, Buddha, Krishna and Rama, all died, with no predetermined knowledge, Jesus however, not only foretold and spoke of the crucifixion but the Prophets (Isaiah 49 - 53) and King David (Psalm 22) graphically spoke of Jesus’ death, hundreds of years ago before it actually took place.

Mohammed, Nanak, Buddha, Krishna and Rama, all died and their death served no purpose for their believers. But the death of Jesus paid the price for my sins. God accepted Jesus’ sacrifice and now wants me to accept him as my personal Savior. Accepting Jesus, as my Savior, is the only way I can be spared of God’s wrath on the judgment day. The Bible says, The Father loves the Son and has placed everything in his hands. Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life, but whoever rejects the Son, will not see life, for God’s wrath remains on him.” (John 3:35)

7. Resurrection
Resurrection of Jesus is probably the single most important difference that sets Jesus apart from all others. Not only did Jesus foretold his death but also proclaimed in advance that he will rise up on the third day after the crucifixion, and rise up, he indeed did. “We are going up to Jerusalem,” he said, ”and the Son of Man will be betrayed to the chief priests and the teachers of the law. They will condemn him to death and will hand him over to the Gentiles, who will mock him and spit on him, flog him and kill him. Three days later he will rise.” (Mark 10:33) Muslims have a mosque built where Mohammed is buried, Sikhs have temples built where their Gurus were cremated, and Buddhist and Hindus build statues and worship them and remember their gods by reenacting their “good-over-evil” victories year after year. But Jesus’ tomb was found empty by his disciples. (John 20)

As a Christian, I do not need to go to a tomb to atone for my sins. I do not need to reenact the crucifixion to sanctify myself and make myself acceptable to God. Because Jesus is ALIVE! After the crucifixion, for forty days, Jesus appeared to his disciples, (Luke 24:36) and gave them proof of being alive by eating bread and fish with them. (Luke 24:41) Jesus invited Thomas, one of the disciples to “Put your finger here; see my hands. Reach out your hand and put it into my side. Stop doubting and believe.” (John 20:27) Jesus opened up his disciples’ eyes to understand the scriptures and explained his death and the Resurrection. (Luke 24:45)

Hindus believe in reincarnation of souls depending on their past lifestyle and the “works” a person has done. But Jesus promised to give me a glorified body that will not see decay or death. Because Jesus rose from dead - I know, and I know, and I know - I will be in his glorified presence one day. I do not need to wash myself in some holy river to purge my sins. I do not need to fear coming back as a man or a beast or a bird or a reptile after death. I have been washed with the blood of Christ that takes away my sins once and for all. “Come now, let us reason together,” says the Lord. “Though your sins are like scarlet, they shall be as white as snow; though they are red as crimson, they shall be like wool.” (Isaiah 1:18)

8. Promised the Holy Spirit
All other religions base salvation for believers in their “works.” Believers are encouraged to perform good works, which may vary from, doing social work and forsaking the world, to deliberately afflicting bodily pain and, performing rituals and certain acts on a regular basis to attain favor with God. Hindus believe in receiving “Mukti” as a result of doing good works in one’s life. But before God, of the Bible, my good works are as filthy rags. God declares, my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways. As the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways and my thoughts than your thoughts. (Isaiah 55:8)

My personal effort to become good and holy in the sight of God will never succeed because my natural instinct is to sin. It does not, therefore, depend on man’s desire or effort, but on God’s mercy. (Romans 9:16) God made us and he knows what is inside of each and everyone of us. I can never attain God’s favor and justify myself with good works. For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith - and this not from yourself, it is the gift of God - not by works, so that no one can boast. (Ephesians 2:8)

As a Christian, God accepts me because I believe in Jesus and I accept him as my personal Savior. Only after accepting Jesus, the good works begin to flow through us because Jesus promised the Holy Spirit to live in us and guide us in all things. And I will ask the father, and he will give you another Counselor to be with you forever - the Spirit of truth. (John 14:16) The Holy Spirit is our teacher and spiritual guide in this day and age. But the Counselor, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, will teach you all things and will remind you of everything I have said to you. (John 14:26)

9. Personal relationship
Greater love has no one but this, that he lay down his life for his friends. (John 15:13) Jesus, as a friend, sacrificed his life for me. The good news is that death could not keep him down. Now, he desires to have a personal (one-to-one) relationship with me. I do not need to recite designated scriptural verses and repeat set of prayers to make God hear me. I do not need to rub my nose on a statue or crawl on roads, bow down to a book or worship it, posture myself on a ground in certain direction or in a certain way to make God hear my prayers. Once I accept Jesus, as Lord, he becomes my personal friend. I can talk to him about anything, anytime, and anywhere. He longs to show God’s love and mercy to me everyday of my life. He wants to have fellowship with me and wants me to rest, in his presence, from all labor. Jesus sees, hears and feels everything that happens to me because he is ALIVE. Christ Jesus, who died - more than that, who was raised to life - is at the right hand of God and is also interceding for us. (Romans 8:34)

After we accept Jesus, he abides in us. If anyone acknowledges that Jesus is the Son of God, God lives in him and he in God. (1 John 4:15) The Holy Spirit connects us to Jesus because God is Spirit. The Holy Spirit reveals to us the unfathomable knowledge of God that cannot be learned or acquired without the presence of God’s Spirit in our lives. In the same way, no one knows the thoughts of God except the Spirit of God. We have not received the spirit of the world but the Spirit who is from God, that we may understand what God has freely given us. (1 Corinthians 2:11)

10. Promised to return
In my Father’s house are many rooms; if it were not so, I would have told you. I am going there to prepare a place for you. And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come back and take you to be with me that you also may be where I am. (John 14:2)

Mohammed, Nanak, Buddha, Krishna and Ram, all died and left no, whatsoever, assurance of ever returning. Jesus, however, promised to return to establish the Kingdom of God.

The sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give it’s light; the stars will fall from the sky, and the heavenly bodies will be shaken. At that time men will see the Son of Man coming in clouds with great power and glory And he will send his angels and gather his elect from the four winds, from the ends of the earth to the ends of the heavens. (Mark 13:26)

Forty days, after resurrection, Jesus ascended to heaven but did not leave us in a limbo. As Jesus was ascending to heaven, the angels told the disciples, “Why do you stand here looking into the sky? This same Jesus, who has been taken from you into heaven, will come back in the same way you have seen him go into heaven.” (Acts 1:11)

In conclusion, let me say that although, God is beyond my comprehension, yet I can relate to Him because God made Himself known to me through Jesus. When I focus on Jesus, I know what God is like. In flesh, God is beyond my reach, but as Jesus promised, the Holy Spirit teaches and reveals God to us when we sincerely seek Him. Jesus was without sin, and yet he understood my sinful nature. He willingly died for my sins to redeem me and has forgiven all my trespasses against God.

God has shown His mercy and love through His Son Jesus. Rest assured, the day of the Lord is coming when we will all stand before God for judgment, and he will ask what did we do with His Son Jesus, the Christ? Now then, if you have not received Lord Jesus in your life, are you prepared to face the Living God on the judgment day?
shalom brother, I think you are mistaken by thinking that Prophet Muhammad (peace and blessings of God be upon him) revieved his message out of the blue. You should read your history up again. Jesus was a practicing ***, he did not come to create a new religion but followed the abrahamic religion and observed laws of the torah. When jesus got his disciples to preach, He says in gospel of mathew, 'Go not onto the samaritans and gentiles but onto the lost sheep of Israel.' meaning his message was not universal but for the jewish people. it was Saint paul who was not of the original disciples of christ who took the message of jesus to the gentiles when jesus told otherwise. Prophet Muhammad preached a universal mission. Jesus did not write the gospels nor did he say them to be gods word, but the Holy Qur'an is the word of God unto all mankind, the Last of Gods message. The Bible respectively has been distorted over the years plently of evidence from christian scholarship if you want on that. Islam unlike the Sikh or Christain writings were not inspired by GOd bu the actual word of God, not changed until today, read it and see. opne your eyes, for guidaince only comes to those who want it, look further a field and you may see the light, for in the corner you will not see the whole picture.
 
Feb 14, 2006
512
31
Islam unlike the Sikh or Christain writings were not inspired by GOd bu the actual word of God, not changed until today, read it and see. opne your eyes, for guidaince only comes to those who want it, look further a field and you may see the light, for in the corner you will not see the whole picture.
I have no quarrel with a Muslim coming to this thread defending his faith from Christian missionary distortion by Rajs, who did, after all, insult every religion including ours. Sikhs have not gone to a Muslim board to insult or belittle Islamic faith.

SO don't you dare start insulting and belittling Sikh religion on a Sikh forum, in front of Sikhs to preach Islamic supremacy.

THESE EXAMPLES OF INJUSTICE AGAINST WOMEN AND CHILDREN ARE IN NO WAY THE ACTUAL TEACHINGS OF GOD! AND ANYONE CAN SEE CLEARLY WITH OPEN EYES, THE WHOLE PICTURE!

http://chromatism.net/current/images/stoning.jpg

http://isaacschrodinger.typepad.com/isaacschrodinger/images/islamic_justice_one.jpg

http://www.rawa.org/herat.jpg

http://www.michaeltotten.com/archives/images/taliban_execution.jpg

http://www.pejmanesque.com/archives/Taliban.jpg
 

jmanhas

SPNer
Mar 6, 2007
5
0
Mumbai
Re: An ex-Sikh’s Journey in Faith

I can claim im one wit God
will u blindly worship me?

THe Gurus were not SEEKERS - they had it all!

What mechanism the holy spirit comign into Jesus?
Divine encounter of remaining nine Gurus? - Read up on theri life

Remember oen thing - Jesus Christ gave his life for Christians and Christianis
GURU TEGH BAHADUR, the 9th Nanak gave his head for RELIGIOUS FREEDOM, for ANOTHER RELIGIOn, whcih COMPLETLY OPPOSES THE PRACTISIS OF THE SIKH RELIGION!!!
THat's Called LOVE fo HUmanity
unlike CHristians - Sihks believe the path might be different - destination is the Same -
Rajs I urge you to read your bible and tell me if it says tha somewhere in the bible
no isntead it says tha Christianity is the ONLY WAY

now let me ask you one question
how do u know what God said?
because Jesus todl people?
when was it written down?
200 yrs after hsi death..... how accurate is the bible Mr Rajs?

How much LOVE and tolerance does Christianity ahve for other religions?
how mcuh equaklity does Christianity have+


Hence I can conclude from that tha- when you're at a speciric spiritual state you are ONE WITH GOD
like a glas of water poured into a bown of water can't be distinguished- in the same way the 2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10 and11th Nanak are one and the SAME DIVINE SPIRIT!



Regards
SSA

All in all -- we agree that there is just one GOD! All religions preach brotherhood and fraternity -- why argue about "WHO IS GOD?"

Jesus and Nanak both left the world a better place with wisdom granted from heavens. Why do we have a need to compare and contrast the great souls?!?!?!

Jay
 
Feb 21, 2007
22
1
DEAR Mr RAJS,
27 05 2007.
CONGRATS ON YOU THAT YOU HAVE CHOSEN A PATH WHERE YOU HAVE FOUND THE HAPPINESS OF THE GREATNESS OF WAHEGURU.
I WOULD LIKE TO ASK WHY IS IT THAT "GOD" IS SO PREOCUPIED WITH THE SIN.
Didn't the original sin came straight out of the old testament myth of adam and eve. their sin --eating the fruit of a forbidden tree. For which they and their descendants were banished forever from the garden of eden.The sin of adam and eve is thouht to have passed down the male line-transmitted in the semen. What kind of ethical philosophy is it that condemns every child,even before it is born, to inherit the sin of a remote ancestor.Why is it that christians are so overwhlmingly focused on sin. what a silly little preoccupation to have dominating one's life.
Your principal concern appears to be that the creator of the universe will take offense at something people do while naked.
 
Feb 21, 2007
22
1
DEAR Mr RAJS
27 05 2007.
The family values of jesus, it has to be admitted short to the point of brusqueness,with his own mother, and he encouraged his disciples to abandon their families to follow him.` if any man come to me and hate not his father,and mother, and wife,and children,and brethren,and sisters,and his own life also,he cannot be my disciple.'
Work it out for yourself Mr Rajs, what kind of son of a god jesus was.

 

jasi

SPNer
Apr 28, 2005
304
277
83
canada
Dear Tirlochan singh ji.

All your answers to your questions are available in Guru Granth Sahib Ji.


So what a wonderful solution is just praise the God's name and Jap Nam with each of your breath. Leave every thing in God's hand ." No one can talk about God because the God Can not be written or spoken for or created by human being. It is just like a river talking about the ocean"

It is a big STOP for all other seekings God out in the forest and churches,temples or when the God is in you . Just you need to open the inside eyes. That can happent by repaeting the NAM.

All other are stories if it expalin to you their are other Gods .NO the reality is their is one God.

Sins committed by a person in previous birth are all eliminated when child is born.Simply please read this from Guru Granth Sahib Ji "MANAS JANAM DURLUB HAI,MILIO NA BARM BAR" So That is why our Holy book preaches us to keep up on doing good deeds as you did in previous birth which resulted into today you being in this world.You are loaded with wisdom but need the key to open up with the halp of Shri Gruth Sahib Ji teaching and showing the path to true happines.

Please forgive me if I dare to speak about Gurus 'Bani which is beyond my understanding. Like doctor give pills to remove your pain and you do not ask him the compositions of the drug. Just trust does the magic only from quallified doctor.

Good luck and I hope I have tried to answers a simple questions but for higher understanding come from the GUru.

jaspi
 

serjit

SPNer
Nov 23, 2006
3
0
Does Jesus belive in Insest? The origin of mankind is from Adam and Ave acording to the teaching of Christianaty.When they ate the forbidden apple
How did mankind grow after that? Lay man like me would think that their children married among themself....pls enlighten me
 
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