Thank you for clarification.
Women In Sikhi
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Thank you for clarification.
- Nov 5, 2010
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Sat Sri Akaal,
What one "seeks", one "see".
After getting bored with art movie, one want's to watch "SEEK" Masala movie.
One "SEEKS" and "SEE" advertisement of "MASALA" movie, though educational/ motivational movies are there.
It's self learning forum.
One must clear to "One's Own Self"
What one "SEEK's"
Discipline or Indiscipline.
Our expressions are reflection's of "State of Mind" and mind reflects a lot.
Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa
Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh
What one "seeks", one "see".
After getting bored with art movie, one want's to watch "SEEK" Masala movie.
One "SEEKS" and "SEE" advertisement of "MASALA" movie, though educational/ motivational movies are there.
It's self learning forum.
One must clear to "One's Own Self"
What one "SEEK's"
Discipline or Indiscipline.
Our expressions are reflection's of "State of Mind" and mind reflects a lot.
Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa
Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh
Naamsimiran
SPNer
- Nov 20, 2011
- 24
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Sat Nam Waheguru Ji
I hope you all had a good Guru Gobind Singh Ji prakash!
Happy New year to you all too.
I haven't been on SPN for a while as I have been really busy. But thought I would give an update to anyone who was interested:
I have an updated website and a more informal blog, so ppl can follow my work on my MA on South Asian Women/Women and Sikhism (starting point) and other creative work.
http://<wbr>sabbicreate.wordpress.com/
http://sabbikaur.tumblr.com/
http://sabbikaur.co.uk/
Hope you enjoy them.
Sat Nam Waheguru japposatnamwaheguru:
I hope you all had a good Guru Gobind Singh Ji prakash!
Happy New year to you all too.
I haven't been on SPN for a while as I have been really busy. But thought I would give an update to anyone who was interested:
I have an updated website and a more informal blog, so ppl can follow my work on my MA on South Asian Women/Women and Sikhism (starting point) and other creative work.
http://<wbr>sabbicreate.wordpress.com/
http://sabbikaur.tumblr.com/
http://sabbikaur.co.uk/
Hope you enjoy them.
Sat Nam Waheguru japposatnamwaheguru:
To my Sikh brothers who were born and raised in the West, it is up to us to challenge the patriarchal society in which we live and give the due love and respect we should to our sisters and mothers and wives and girlfriends. We have internalized so many notions of "manhood" and femininity through centuries of tradition and do not even question the things that are oppressing women. Women in our homes aren't treated right half the time, so how can we expect the larger community to do right by Sikh women? We need to fix our homes and our families and then fix our Gurudwaras to stop with the patriarchal structure we have constructed.
Naamsimiran
SPNer
- Nov 20, 2011
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Fatheh Jis
HGNIS. It is true and I would also add, women need to also stop oppressing women. Mother - in laws and sister in laws need to stop bullying daughter in laws. Women need to stop bullying each other and stop putting each other down in terms of 'what their children are doing' and 'if they are married or not'. Where is the humanity and compassion in that?
Sat Nam
HGNIS. It is true and I would also add, women need to also stop oppressing women. Mother - in laws and sister in laws need to stop bullying daughter in laws. Women need to stop bullying each other and stop putting each other down in terms of 'what their children are doing' and 'if they are married or not'. Where is the humanity and compassion in that?
Sat Nam
- Jan 31, 2011
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the trouble is the pack mentality which can be hard to break from, bullies are generally cowards, maybe we should start a thread on what you should do if you are being intimated or bullied by your elders
That women-against-women thing is part of a woman's DNA. You cannot change it. And the punjabi culture doesn't help either. You need a freakin' high level of enlightenment to realize your actions!
- Jan 31, 2011
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Kanwaljitji
That women-against-women thing is part of a woman's DNA.
I have always admired your bravery veerji
That women-against-women thing is part of a woman's DNA.
I have always admired your bravery veerji
Naamsimiran
SPNer
- Nov 20, 2011
- 24
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Wahe Guru Ji Ka Khalsa Wahe Guru Ji Ke Fateh
I am not completely sure its part of a women's DNA. I think we need to look at other factors if we are going to move on as a community Ji. If we just in point this on DNA, it means women and men don't have a choice or can not become aware of their actions, either through meditation/prayer or psychological analyses.
I personally think it is to do with the level of frustration and unhappiness a women feels and other factors.
1. As most women get a hard time, either in India or the UK, and the level of power is minimal until they become an elder or mother in law / sister in law, they exert their power fully and abuse it. There then becomes a cycle, where as daughter in laws become mother in laws, they carry out the same kind of nastiness.
2. If one is frustrated with ones life, either because certain choices are made for them or have been taken away, or have been abused, the mind gets bitter and wishes to unleash its frustrations on others. I have seen this happen many times. Where even the nicest of women, have become quite nasty, because really inside they are unhappy.
3. If an arrange marriage takes place where neither party is really happy with it, both male and female again feel that sense of bitterness. The man may turn to drink or unfortunately find someone else, the women is resentful and turns into something she may not have initially wanted to be. Arrange marriages work for some, but can be very destructive too, especially if both involved don't really want one and may have been nudged, guilt tripped, coerced into having one.
4. Men can also be very nasty to each other. They put each other down and also bully each other. So is this their DNA?, for both men and women, also ego comes into play e.g 'I am better than you' , 'my children are doing something better than yours etc'. When Indian's migrate to England through marriage or other means, especially if they come from a a poor family, and they do well in England it is difficult to be aware of the ego, as they had so little and want to rejoice, but perhaps do not really know how, but to show off. Others who are wealthy, and because we are so hung up on status, show off anyway. Again all this is to do with the ego.
5. Also their is a huge sense of fear in our communities, built up through various avenues, so people take this out on each other.
As Yoda says in Star Wars 'Fear is the path to the dark side. Fear leads to anger, anger leads to hate, hate leads to suffering'.
So I don't think its black and white. Also I feel it is more useful to look at the bigger picture so change can take place. Questions we could ask ourselves as a community may be:
1. Are there factors that are affecting men and women's well being that we can do something about?
2. Are all arranged/forced marriages OK? Are both people really wanting it?
3. Why are our women unhappy? (apart from the separation from Waheguru)
4. Why are men unhappy? (apart from the separation from Waheguru)
5. Are there ways of getting women to talk about the bullying? And men to talk about it?
6. Instead of focusing on egotistical gains, how can we improve our communities and or wider communities?
Anyway that is my humble opinion. Apologies if I offended anyone.
Sat Naam. icecreamkaur
I am not completely sure its part of a women's DNA. I think we need to look at other factors if we are going to move on as a community Ji. If we just in point this on DNA, it means women and men don't have a choice or can not become aware of their actions, either through meditation/prayer or psychological analyses.
I personally think it is to do with the level of frustration and unhappiness a women feels and other factors.
1. As most women get a hard time, either in India or the UK, and the level of power is minimal until they become an elder or mother in law / sister in law, they exert their power fully and abuse it. There then becomes a cycle, where as daughter in laws become mother in laws, they carry out the same kind of nastiness.
2. If one is frustrated with ones life, either because certain choices are made for them or have been taken away, or have been abused, the mind gets bitter and wishes to unleash its frustrations on others. I have seen this happen many times. Where even the nicest of women, have become quite nasty, because really inside they are unhappy.
3. If an arrange marriage takes place where neither party is really happy with it, both male and female again feel that sense of bitterness. The man may turn to drink or unfortunately find someone else, the women is resentful and turns into something she may not have initially wanted to be. Arrange marriages work for some, but can be very destructive too, especially if both involved don't really want one and may have been nudged, guilt tripped, coerced into having one.
4. Men can also be very nasty to each other. They put each other down and also bully each other. So is this their DNA?, for both men and women, also ego comes into play e.g 'I am better than you' , 'my children are doing something better than yours etc'. When Indian's migrate to England through marriage or other means, especially if they come from a a poor family, and they do well in England it is difficult to be aware of the ego, as they had so little and want to rejoice, but perhaps do not really know how, but to show off. Others who are wealthy, and because we are so hung up on status, show off anyway. Again all this is to do with the ego.
5. Also their is a huge sense of fear in our communities, built up through various avenues, so people take this out on each other.
As Yoda says in Star Wars 'Fear is the path to the dark side. Fear leads to anger, anger leads to hate, hate leads to suffering'.
So I don't think its black and white. Also I feel it is more useful to look at the bigger picture so change can take place. Questions we could ask ourselves as a community may be:
1. Are there factors that are affecting men and women's well being that we can do something about?
2. Are all arranged/forced marriages OK? Are both people really wanting it?
3. Why are our women unhappy? (apart from the separation from Waheguru)
4. Why are men unhappy? (apart from the separation from Waheguru)
5. Are there ways of getting women to talk about the bullying? And men to talk about it?
6. Instead of focusing on egotistical gains, how can we improve our communities and or wider communities?
Anyway that is my humble opinion. Apologies if I offended anyone.
Sat Naam. icecreamkaur
- Jan 31, 2011
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Naamsimranji,
I agree with you fully, however if we take the case of a young wife being bullied by all and sundry, what is the correct thing for her to do? stand up to it? Even as someone that has no contact with the Sikh community like me knows this is going to be hard, it will show disrespect and bring shame on the girls family, take it with good grace? inform your husband? inform your parents? What is the correct Sikh way to deal with this, what would Guruji have advised?
Personally speaking, if it were me, and my husband raised his hand against me, I would advise him to make sure he had his quota of children as it would be unlikely to increase after that event,
In our community we automatically assume all those older are wise and knowledgeable, but from my experience, there is an awful lot of misinformation and Vedic habits passed down from generation to generation, and its getting worse every day.
There seems little point wearing a turban, doing Nitnem, if your core thinking is so corrupted you would allow your wife to suffer at the hands of some bitter old crone just because she happens to be your mother. In my view, doing the 'right' thing is more important than any family tie, it is doing the right thing and being true for the sake of your faith, and I am afraid that supersedes anything else,
I agree with you fully, however if we take the case of a young wife being bullied by all and sundry, what is the correct thing for her to do? stand up to it? Even as someone that has no contact with the Sikh community like me knows this is going to be hard, it will show disrespect and bring shame on the girls family, take it with good grace? inform your husband? inform your parents? What is the correct Sikh way to deal with this, what would Guruji have advised?
Personally speaking, if it were me, and my husband raised his hand against me, I would advise him to make sure he had his quota of children as it would be unlikely to increase after that event,
In our community we automatically assume all those older are wise and knowledgeable, but from my experience, there is an awful lot of misinformation and Vedic habits passed down from generation to generation, and its getting worse every day.
There seems little point wearing a turban, doing Nitnem, if your core thinking is so corrupted you would allow your wife to suffer at the hands of some bitter old crone just because she happens to be your mother. In my view, doing the 'right' thing is more important than any family tie, it is doing the right thing and being true for the sake of your faith, and I am afraid that supersedes anything else,
Just an FYI,
this thread was merely about discussion about the accepted role, prescene of women in context to the Sikh Community. It was not, and is not a criticism of Sikhi itself.
It was about the interaction between males and females in the Punjabi/Sikh community and how its needs a little observation... I can speak first hand that although bringing up your daughters to be polite, meek and accepting of others is good... often times its those very qualities that lead them to tolerate behaviour that no person should. Especially when it goes to the point of making another feel worthless...
Now, I'm not saying women want to be men... we're not, and don't want to be. But just that in general the interaction between the males and females in Punjabi/Sikh households is that a woman's thoughts, feelings are often not taken into account. And I'm sorry to say that we're actually thoughtful creatures, we think... its something that should be taken into consideration. Now I can't speak for all women... but I know a lot of what a person is and what they become is conditioning. And men, as fathers, brothers, husbands are a big part of that.... please take that into consideration. That although we are daughters, sisters, and wives... we may actually have a dream or two. We look to you to support and protect us in our pursuits, whether they be external, in the world... whatever they may be, we look to you to support us just like you often look to us for the same... Its a give and take relationship.
*No disrespect to any brothers above, or any in real life. I'm not friggin stomping on anybody, just saying... that things need to shift a little bit... just a little bit. (this is also just my opinion, should you have a completely different opionion, thats cool. b/c at the end of the day, this is a place where philosophical discussion happens... where ideas are brought to the table etc. doesn't mean everybody has to agree, but that we walk away with some semblance of awareness of an issue... ) thank you
this thread was merely about discussion about the accepted role, prescene of women in context to the Sikh Community. It was not, and is not a criticism of Sikhi itself.
It was about the interaction between males and females in the Punjabi/Sikh community and how its needs a little observation... I can speak first hand that although bringing up your daughters to be polite, meek and accepting of others is good... often times its those very qualities that lead them to tolerate behaviour that no person should. Especially when it goes to the point of making another feel worthless...
Now, I'm not saying women want to be men... we're not, and don't want to be. But just that in general the interaction between the males and females in Punjabi/Sikh households is that a woman's thoughts, feelings are often not taken into account. And I'm sorry to say that we're actually thoughtful creatures, we think... its something that should be taken into consideration. Now I can't speak for all women... but I know a lot of what a person is and what they become is conditioning. And men, as fathers, brothers, husbands are a big part of that.... please take that into consideration. That although we are daughters, sisters, and wives... we may actually have a dream or two. We look to you to support and protect us in our pursuits, whether they be external, in the world... whatever they may be, we look to you to support us just like you often look to us for the same... Its a give and take relationship.
*No disrespect to any brothers above, or any in real life. I'm not friggin stomping on anybody, just saying... that things need to shift a little bit... just a little bit. (this is also just my opinion, should you have a completely different opionion, thats cool. b/c at the end of the day, this is a place where philosophical discussion happens... where ideas are brought to the table etc. doesn't mean everybody has to agree, but that we walk away with some semblance of awareness of an issue... ) thank you
No man has ever dared to raise his hand against me. I'm pretty adequate at unarmed self-defense and my kirpan is sharp and I really know how to use it. Any man involved with me more deeply than casual conversation knows these things about me. Understand that I am a bit less than five feet tall, not a large imposing type at all. I am sorry that we have to resort to violence, but if anyone dares to strike me, I will not turn the other cheek; one of us will probably be severely injured.
All of our daughters should be so trained and we would wipe out physical spousal abuse in one generation.
I believe the emotional and verbal abuse would go as well. Once she makes it clear she can't be bullied, the bully - a coward - will seek out an easier victim.
- Jan 31, 2011
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Navdeepji
I slightly disagree with you, in that you say things need to shift a little bit, no, things need to shift a huge amount, women need to be given a full and equal presence on a par with men.
Unfortunately it begins right at the beginning.There are elements of the Sikh Marriage Ceremony I find uhmm distasteful, these are not religious elements, they are traditional elements, which do nothing to set the foundations for an equal relationship.
1 The girl walks behind the man
2 The girl has to leave her fathers house in tears (not sure about this one, been a long time since I went to a wedding)
3 The girl has to be helped (forced?) round the SGGS by her family
4 The dowry arrangements do nothing for equality
5 The transfer of being a daughter from her own family to the grooms family
No man has to go through these rituals, but for a woman, it clearly shows her place in the new family/marriage.
Complete equality, which is what Guruji preached, is just that , dare I say it, but more Vedic baggage to be dumped I think
I slightly disagree with you, in that you say things need to shift a little bit, no, things need to shift a huge amount, women need to be given a full and equal presence on a par with men.
Unfortunately it begins right at the beginning.There are elements of the Sikh Marriage Ceremony I find uhmm distasteful, these are not religious elements, they are traditional elements, which do nothing to set the foundations for an equal relationship.
1 The girl walks behind the man
2 The girl has to leave her fathers house in tears (not sure about this one, been a long time since I went to a wedding)
3 The girl has to be helped (forced?) round the SGGS by her family
4 The dowry arrangements do nothing for equality
5 The transfer of being a daughter from her own family to the grooms family
No man has to go through these rituals, but for a woman, it clearly shows her place in the new family/marriage.
Complete equality, which is what Guruji preached, is just that , dare I say it, but more Vedic baggage to be dumped I think
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Inderjeetji, you are as fiery as my dear wife, I wish there were more women like the both of you, I would love to see the face of a cowardly wife beating man who had the misfortune to come across either of you,
Naamsimiran
SPNer
- Nov 20, 2011
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Harry Haller Ji
You are right. What does the women in this case do? Plus yes as our Guru's said:
'Higher than Truth is Truthful Living'.
That is the most difficult part and there are no real quick answers.
In my opinion it is better to perhaps to sort the core of the issue rather than trying to sort the problem after it is done.
i.e. Don't allow such marriages to take place.
- If the man does not really feel anything for his wife in the first place, it is unlike that he will stick up for her as he did not want to be with her in the first place.
- Make sure you really know the family you are marrying into. What are the extended family like?
- Marriages happen at a very young age, where both men and women may not have the capacity to deal with such bullying.
- The old age traditions of staying with the the mother-in-law is outdated. Is she a daughter in law or slave?
I know I may be being really harsh, but there are so many of my sisters and brothers out there suffering, because as communities we refuse to give up cultural traditions that just don't work. There are positive stories of arrange marriages, but this is just good luck.
Maybe there can be systems of introductory marriages, where families who know each other allow the children to get to know each other and have a choice of saying No. Again there is the whole shame thing here. I am from a Sikh community and I understand the idea of shame.
But if that generation doesn't change, the next generation need to and need to really start challenging the traditions and saying enough is enough and say No that is not the way.
Sikh have always fought against injustice. We are not fighting the Muguals now, but we do need to fight the injustice happening in our own communities, by questioning and standing up against it, no matter who it is coming from.
This is not an easy thing, but it is possible.
continued....
You are right. What does the women in this case do? Plus yes as our Guru's said:
'Higher than Truth is Truthful Living'.
That is the most difficult part and there are no real quick answers.
In my opinion it is better to perhaps to sort the core of the issue rather than trying to sort the problem after it is done.
i.e. Don't allow such marriages to take place.
- If the man does not really feel anything for his wife in the first place, it is unlike that he will stick up for her as he did not want to be with her in the first place.
- Make sure you really know the family you are marrying into. What are the extended family like?
- Marriages happen at a very young age, where both men and women may not have the capacity to deal with such bullying.
- The old age traditions of staying with the the mother-in-law is outdated. Is she a daughter in law or slave?
I know I may be being really harsh, but there are so many of my sisters and brothers out there suffering, because as communities we refuse to give up cultural traditions that just don't work. There are positive stories of arrange marriages, but this is just good luck.
Maybe there can be systems of introductory marriages, where families who know each other allow the children to get to know each other and have a choice of saying No. Again there is the whole shame thing here. I am from a Sikh community and I understand the idea of shame.
But if that generation doesn't change, the next generation need to and need to really start challenging the traditions and saying enough is enough and say No that is not the way.
Sikh have always fought against injustice. We are not fighting the Muguals now, but we do need to fight the injustice happening in our own communities, by questioning and standing up against it, no matter who it is coming from.
This is not an easy thing, but it is possible.
continued....
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I agree with everything my above sisters have said, given the choice between shameful truth or respectful lies, give me shame every time
Naamsimiran
SPNer
- Nov 20, 2011
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Fatheh Ji
As for women who are getting bullied:
- perhaps get in touch with South Asian women centres that help with such cases.
- don't feel guilty about 'bring shame' - as it is not your fault.
- if you can, yes do stand up. If you get physically abused for this... then there are laws in this country which will protect you.
- if you have a good relationship with your husband and the mother-in-law is the problem, talk to them, The husbands need to stand up to their mother as any mental, physical, verbal abuse is against Sikh principles and just principles of humanity.
- it is not just the role of the husband or the women being bullied, if you are part of a family where this is going on, stop fearing 'shame' and do something about it. You can ring the police anonymously or get help from South Asian help groups on their behalf. Ring up for them or give them the number to ring (see below for links).
- If it is really bad for the women, then she really needs to get out of the situation and other family members need to help her do this. We can't continue to let this happen.
- The women needs to find people within the family who will be on her side or even a friend. And if someone in this situation comes to you - help them.
Something needs to be set up in Gudwaras to deal with this too. Forums or help centres.
Some good websites for women in this situation:
SAWNET
http://www.sawnet.org/orgns/violence.php
The SHARAN Project
http://www.sharan.org.uk/
Women's Aid:
http://www.womensaid.org.uk/?gclid=CLjBuIDW8q0CFQcNtAodnkGEsA
Sakhi
http://www.sakhi.org/# (New york)
Refuge
http://refuge.org.uk/about-us/what-we-do/asian-services/
Apologies again if I have made any mistakes in what I have said. I just feel passionately about this and it needs to stop. Lets not remain passive, but take action like our Gurus did.
Guru Nanak came from a Hindu family. Did he fear the 'shame' that his father may have felt in his community when Guru Ji went against Hindu rituals, like tying a black thread around your wrist? Can you imagine if Guru Nanak did fear the 'shame' he might bring, we would not have Sikhi!
I am also not just saying this with mere words. I have supported many women to find ways either not to get themselves into a marriage they didn't want or supported them in a difficult situation.
Sometimes we argue and say well they were Gurus. But we forget the Guru's light is within us. So lets use it.
Stand up to it or help others to stand up. Support each other.
Sat Nam.
As for women who are getting bullied:
- perhaps get in touch with South Asian women centres that help with such cases.
- don't feel guilty about 'bring shame' - as it is not your fault.
- if you can, yes do stand up. If you get physically abused for this... then there are laws in this country which will protect you.
- if you have a good relationship with your husband and the mother-in-law is the problem, talk to them, The husbands need to stand up to their mother as any mental, physical, verbal abuse is against Sikh principles and just principles of humanity.
- it is not just the role of the husband or the women being bullied, if you are part of a family where this is going on, stop fearing 'shame' and do something about it. You can ring the police anonymously or get help from South Asian help groups on their behalf. Ring up for them or give them the number to ring (see below for links).
- If it is really bad for the women, then she really needs to get out of the situation and other family members need to help her do this. We can't continue to let this happen.
- The women needs to find people within the family who will be on her side or even a friend. And if someone in this situation comes to you - help them.
Something needs to be set up in Gudwaras to deal with this too. Forums or help centres.
Some good websites for women in this situation:
SAWNET
http://www.sawnet.org/orgns/violence.php
The SHARAN Project
http://www.sharan.org.uk/
Women's Aid:
http://www.womensaid.org.uk/?gclid=CLjBuIDW8q0CFQcNtAodnkGEsA
Sakhi
http://www.sakhi.org/# (New york)
Refuge
http://refuge.org.uk/about-us/what-we-do/asian-services/
Apologies again if I have made any mistakes in what I have said. I just feel passionately about this and it needs to stop. Lets not remain passive, but take action like our Gurus did.
Guru Nanak came from a Hindu family. Did he fear the 'shame' that his father may have felt in his community when Guru Ji went against Hindu rituals, like tying a black thread around your wrist? Can you imagine if Guru Nanak did fear the 'shame' he might bring, we would not have Sikhi!
I am also not just saying this with mere words. I have supported many women to find ways either not to get themselves into a marriage they didn't want or supported them in a difficult situation.
Sometimes we argue and say well they were Gurus. But we forget the Guru's light is within us. So lets use it.
Stand up to it or help others to stand up. Support each other.
Sat Nam.
Last edited:
Naamsimiran
SPNer
- Nov 20, 2011
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Wahe Guru Ji Ka Khalsa Wahe Guru Ji Ke Fatheh.
Fatheh Ji
Apologies for all the post. Like I said I do feel passionately about this topic.
Another thing which is disturbing is the idea of using 'karma' as an excuse for not doing anything or passively accepting what is happening in our communities or as a abused women accepting it and not taking action.
Personally I am not sure we are enlightened enough to understand how 'karma' works. We also use it as an excuse to remain passive. Plus we forget just to be logical and pragmatic about a situation.
Sikh philosophy talks about karma and that is fine as we do have our journeys to walk, but we can't use it as an excuse either.
There are actions we can take. Our beloved Guru Gobind Ji took action against oppression. Mai Bhago Ji took action. There are women in Sikh history that acted: http://www.sikh-heritage.co.uk/personalities/sikhwomen/prosikhwomen.htm
Also it helps if we use the prayers of our Guru's to empower us, so we can stand up.
Sat Naam cheerleader
Fatheh Ji
Apologies for all the post. Like I said I do feel passionately about this topic.
Another thing which is disturbing is the idea of using 'karma' as an excuse for not doing anything or passively accepting what is happening in our communities or as a abused women accepting it and not taking action.
Personally I am not sure we are enlightened enough to understand how 'karma' works. We also use it as an excuse to remain passive. Plus we forget just to be logical and pragmatic about a situation.
Sikh philosophy talks about karma and that is fine as we do have our journeys to walk, but we can't use it as an excuse either.
There are actions we can take. Our beloved Guru Gobind Ji took action against oppression. Mai Bhago Ji took action. There are women in Sikh history that acted: http://www.sikh-heritage.co.uk/personalities/sikhwomen/prosikhwomen.htm
Also it helps if we use the prayers of our Guru's to empower us, so we can stand up.
Sat Naam cheerleader
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- 55
I am not hugely enlightened myself, but my definition of Karma is that if I kick a dog, then it will probably bite me, what happened before I was born, or after I die is of absolutely no relevance to me whatsoever, it is more of a Vedic concept brought about for the very reason of control through the way described above.
This is all the life we have jios, as Sikhs we must accept that we make our lot in this life without any interference from previous lives, if indeed you believe that sort of thing, which is a personal issue between you and Creator.
Naamsimranji, please stop apologising, you have a huge valid point, it needs no apology, what it needs now is more action, more people to voice the fact that inequality within Sikhi is not acceptable
This is all the life we have jios, as Sikhs we must accept that we make our lot in this life without any interference from previous lives, if indeed you believe that sort of thing, which is a personal issue between you and Creator.
Naamsimranji, please stop apologising, you have a huge valid point, it needs no apology, what it needs now is more action, more people to voice the fact that inequality within Sikhi is not acceptable
Naamsimiran
SPNer
- Nov 20, 2011
- 24
- 66
Fatheh
Lol! Ok I will stop apologising.
Harry Haller. Personally I have no real idea what karma is or whether it really exists or not. If it exists then fair enough, if not then fair enough too.
I just know that we seem to use is as an excuse to stop ourselves and others reach their potential. Plus I strongly agree it is used to control the masses.
Inequality is not acceptable in Sikhism or anywhere really.
Thanks for all the great post.
Sat Nam Jio.
Lol! Ok I will stop apologising.
Harry Haller. Personally I have no real idea what karma is or whether it really exists or not. If it exists then fair enough, if not then fair enough too.
I just know that we seem to use is as an excuse to stop ourselves and others reach their potential. Plus I strongly agree it is used to control the masses.
Inequality is not acceptable in Sikhism or anywhere really.
Thanks for all the great post.
Sat Nam Jio.
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