Amrit Vela / Early Rising - What Does Gurbani Say?

[Tejwant Singh]

Chaz Singh ji,

Guru Fateh.

Blatant attempt at segregation lol lol

You may giggle till your tummy hurts but we are having a serious discussion here.

Are you one of those Sikhs?. If not you have no excuse ji...utilise amrita vela while you can. Just like when I worked night shifts...I did my simran during the day...or when my shift finished...and now I work during the day i.m making the most out of this opportunity to wake up in the early hours

Please stop speculating on others' Sikhi journey. It is not what a Sikh maketh. Thanks for admitting that you want to impose your way of Sikhi unto others because you consider Amrit Vela as the early hours in the morning.

I also thank you for showing your disregard towards other seekers' lives and what they have to go through for their Kirat-one of 3 basic tenets of Sikhi- to put food on the table for their families because for you, meaning of Amrit Vela is chiseled in stone by you with your personal chisel and hammer. It is a shame indeed to treat other Sikhs in this manner. It is either your way or highway.

Chaz Singh ji, your personal zeal to be "the true Sikh" while disregarding others' quest shows a lot more about you and I appreciate your candor which proves my point of segregation and you are honestly clear about it, the latter is a great trait to cultivate btw.

Come on please...this is a journey...not a short stroll. Life will challenge...these kind of comments have no worth. If your love is there you will find a way...waheguru will help you if you really want it.

I totally agree with you that "this is a journey...not a short stroll". Please allow others to dance through this Sikhi journey of theirs with their own inner orchestras not imposing your own 2 step dance unto them.This is not any TV show like "Dancing with the stars" or "Can you dance"?

I would urge you to let them take their own personal journey as they wish to as you are taking yours.

Are you one of those Sikhs?

Fortunately, I am not but I know many who are.

Regards

Tejwant Singh

 

[japjisahib04]

Come on Chaz Ji

I placed my post strictly on gurbani. If you think my interpretation or understanding is wrong, please come with your interpretation. Gurbani is very logical. Let us not become dum dum like:

 

[Harry Haller]

Fortunately, I am not but I know many who are.

I on the other hand am, insomnia rules my life, so I keep very strange hours, I normally open my shop between 4-6am, which is actually Amrit Vela according to you, sure its peaceful, sure its nice, but in my opinion, having a knife pulled on you at 3pm in the afternoon by a drug crazed junkie is also Amrit Vela, in fact, I think it is more Amrit Vela than when there is nothing going on, its easy to be a Sikh when there is nothing going on, its hard trying to be a Sikh in the storm, but the storm is where its at

 

[chazSingh]

Looks like I have been a naughty little boy.

Anyway back to the subject Tejwant ji.
There is a shbad I posted at 4.05pm. It would be great to get your view on it.

I have asked for clarification on a specific line of it of which no one has yet replied. If you could please assist with that also.

It won't take long. Look forward to your reply. God bless

 

[chazSingh]

Japji sahib please if you can also let us have your translation of the shbad I posted. Saves the rest of us from being dumb like.

Look forward to your reply.

God bless

 

[Tejwant Singh]

Chaz Singh ji,
Guru Fateh.

Looks like I have been a naughty little boy.

Being naughty is not the part of this thread. What you do in your private life is your life. No one has the right to interfere in that. This is a serious subject which demands respect from all of us. Sikhi is all about caring for all humankind. It not about dwelling in one's own self created cocoon hoping one day to come out like a fluttering butterfly. Only dwelling in Gurmat cocoon one may become fortunate for that leap.

I have asked for clarification on a specific line of it of which no one has yet replied. If you could please assist with that also.

I would love to share my thoughts about it but before I delve into that, please share your personal meaning of the verses you do understand and do not forget to write the page number.

Thanks & regards

Tejwant Singh

 

[Original]

Can someone translate the following verse?

fareedhaa pishhal raath n jaagiouhi jeevadharro mueiouhi ||

in one of bhai gurdaas ji's vaars he uses the same terminology

ipCl rwqIN jwgxw nwmu dwnu iesnwnu idVwey] pishhal raathee(n) jaaganaa naam dhaan eisanaan dhirraaeae||
The Sikh awakes in the pre-dawn hour and meditating upon Naam, he becomes alert for ablution and charity.

what is this peshal raath? what is the translation...

can it really be referring to the the four quarters of a persons life like ishna Ji stated...?

ਫਰੀਦਾ ਿਪਛਲਿ ਰਾਿਤ ਨ ਜਾਗਿੳਿਹ ਜੀਵਦੜੋ ਮੁਿੲੳਿਹ ।। ਜੇ ਤੈ ਰਬੁ ਿਵਸਾਿਰਆ ਤ ਰਬਿ ਨ ਿਵਸਰਿੳਹਿ ।i


Literal interpretation - Farida last phase of the night [ਪਛਲਿ ਰਾਿਤ, Amrit Vela]
- you do not wake [ਨ ਜਾਗਿੳਿਹ], consider that a death
- whilst alive
- You may have forgotten God but not He, God
- Lord forgets you.

Baba Fraid places lot of emphasis on waking up at AV, for those who don't wake at AV are said to have missed the plot.

 

[japjisahib04]

Japji sahib please if you can also let us have your translation of the shbad I posted. Saves the rest of us from being dumb like.

Are your referring to 'ਫਰੀਦਾ ਪਿਛਲ ਰਾਤਿ ਨ ਜਾਗਿਓਹਿ ਜੀਵਦੜੋ ਮੁਇਓਹਿ ॥ ਜੇ ਤੈ ਰਬੁ ਵਿਸਾਰਿਆ ਤ ਰਬਿ ਨ ਵਿਸਰਿਓਹਿ ॥੧੦੭॥ where ever clarification was required to bhagatan dee baani, guru sahib have intervened and added their sabd after it. Please read till stanza 113 and you will notice ਪਿਛਲ ਰਾਤਿ does not stand for early morning, but to awaken from slumber and listen to the truth.

 

[Ishna]

I backtracked to the start of Baba Fareed Ji's shaloks towards the end of panna 1377 and read through to the end at the bottom of panna 1384. I urge everyone to read them, because it is a timely reminder for us all, and your soul will soar with the updraft of this sweet Gurbani.

This is the picture that emerged for me personally, which shows how I come to the conclusion that I do, regarding Fareed's mention of waking before dawn:

Our death is inevitable, so be spiritually alert.
Life is full of worldly distractions.
Hindsight won't help you, you have been warned. Don't make excuses.
So, conduct yourself fairly, now is the time to do good deeds.
If you don't, you'll suddenly find yourself old with no good deeds in the bank.
Remember Guru while you're young, because if you don't, you're unlikely to when you're old.
Remember now, and Guru will be with you always.
Be humble, look for Guru within.
Guru's path might seem hard, but worldly luxury is false poison.
There is no rest (in the life-night) for the soul-bride in separation from Guru.

ਫਰੀਦਾ ਚਿੰਤ ਖਟੋਲਾ ਵਾਣੁ ਦੁਖੁ ਬਿਰਹਿ ਵਿਛਾਵਣ ਲੇਫੁ ॥
Farīḏā cẖinṯ kẖatolā vāṇ ḏukẖ birėh vicẖẖāvaṇ lef.
Fareed, anxiety is my bed, pain is my mattress, and the pain of separation is my blanket and quilt.
ਏਹੁ ਹਮਾਰਾ ਜੀਵਣਾ ਤੂ ਸਾਹਿਬ ਸਚੇ ਵੇਖੁ ॥੩੫॥
Ėhu hamārā jīvṇā ṯū sāhib sacẖe vekẖ. ||35||
Behold, this is my life, O my True Lord and Master. ||35||
Ang 1379​

Lives are wasted in pain without Guru.
Fareed finds himself old and facing death, longing for Guru.
People might have loads of worldly luxury but will still die, and it will be worse for them.
Pain awaits those, even the ones who look pure on the outside, if they are dark on the inside.
Fear "God", don't be greedy.
Search inwardly for Guru, not outwardly.
Fareed again find himself old and facing death, longing for Guru. He laments that he spent his youth in worldliness.
He says he is asleep to his Husband-Lord, his days are passing away thus.
Always remember death is coming for you.
Forget about wasting your time doing anything that doesn't bring your closer to Guru.
Don't waste your chance, or you'll regret it.
We will all die, and be dead for ages and ages.
It is not good to live badly. Get up now and pray. You're as good as dead if you don't.
Life is hard, but be a good person.
We are a guest, and the morning is coming - get ready to leave. [shalok 79]
You don't collect musk sleeping through your life-night.
Life is hard, but blessed, if you Love Guru.
Remain alert, focus on Guru even through pain of life.
Fareed again graphically reminds us of inevitable death.
Dedicate yourself to Guru, because you will die, even though you think you are immortal.
What you do now in life will be taken to account.
You can die at any time.
Fareed is a sacrifice to those birds who do not leave Guru's side.
Fareed has searched everywhere in the world but still doesn't find Guru.
Nanak reminds him that Guru can be found in the mind.
Those proud of wealth and youth will go empty handed.
They suffer by forgetting Naam.

ਫਰੀਦਾ ਪਿਛਲ ਰਾਤਿ ਨ ਜਾਗਿਓਹਿ ਜੀਵਦੜੋ ਮੁਇਓਹਿ ॥
Farīḏā picẖẖal rāṯ na jāgi▫ohi jīvaḏ▫ṛo mu▫i▫ohi.
Fareed, if you do not awaken in the early hours before dawn, you are dead while yet alive.
ਜੇ ਤੈ ਰਬੁ ਵਿਸਾਰਿਆ ਤ ਰਬਿ ਨ ਵਿਸਰਿਓਹਿ ॥੧੦੭॥
Je ṯai rab visāri▫ā ṯa rab na visari▫ohi. ||107||
Although you have forgotten God, God has not forgotten you. ||107|
Ang 1383​

Guru is wonderful, keep It in your heart, instead of the world.
Youth brings flowers, old age brings fruit.
Remain awake (alert to Guru) throughout your life-night to receive Gurus gifts.
Be patient, look within, find Guru.
Life is difficult, but don't be distracted by luxury.
Take care of your body.
Don't be fooled or trapped by life's charms.
To attract Guru, be humble, forgiving, and mild-mannered.
Guru is within everyone, so be nice to everyone.

 

[chazSingh]

ਫਰੀਦਾ ਿਪਛਲਿ ਰਾਿਤ ਨ ਜਾਗਿੳਿਹ ਜੀਵਦੜੋ ਮੁਿੲੳਿਹ ।। ਜੇ ਤੈ ਰਬੁ ਿਵਸਾਿਰਆ ਤ ਰਬਿ ਨ ਿਵਸਰਿੳਹਿ ।i


Literal interpretation - Farida last phase of the night [ਪਛਲਿ ਰਾਿਤ, Amrit Vela]
- you do not wake [ਨ ਜਾਗਿੳਿਹ], consider that a death
- whilst alive
- You may have forgotten God but not He, God
- Lord forgets you.

Baba Fraid places lot of emphasis on waking up at AV, for those who don't wake at AV are said to have missed the plot.

Thank you very much Original Ji...

you ask a simple question about a very simple verse...and the non amrit vela crew start to side step the question. My good friend keep up your bhagti...

god bless

 

[chazSingh]

Chaz Singh ji,
Guru Fateh.



Being naughty is not the part of this thread. What you do in your private life is your life. No one has the right to interfere in that. This is a serious subject which demands respect from all of us. Sikhi is all about caring for all humankind. It not about dwelling in one's own self created cocoon hoping one day to come out like a fluttering butterfly. Only dwelling in Gurmat cocoon one may become fortunate for that leap.



I would love to share my thoughts about it but before I delve into that, please share your personal meaning of the verses you do understand and do not forget to write the page number.

Thanks & regards

Tejwant Singh

Tejwant ji.

this is 'you' 100% ... i don;t expect anything more.

 

[Ishna]

Thank you very much Original Ji...

you ask a simple question about a very simple verse...and the non amrit vela crew start to side step the question. My good friend keep up your bhagti...

but i think your experience will be immense on that forum.

god bless

I am respecting your thread, Chaz Ji. Please respect mine.

Many thanks.

 

[chazSingh]

@chazSingh , Original Ji makes a very good point in post #13 above. I guess this entire issue for us is a matter of our own subjective judgement.

You say:


The same thought went through my mind when you quoted a tuk from ang 1383 in your thread about amrit vela. It is clear that the shabad is talking about the quarters of a person's whole life, and imploring on to "wake up" to Guru Ji before it's too late and they die.

Coming back to the shabad you posted above (which is from ang 146, incidentally ), I read the whole page, and the page before it, and a number of the shabads make a point of keeping Creator in mind at all times, 24 hours a day, constantly. I'm not convinced that the bani would just suddenly switch from metaphor to literal instruction just like that.

While I was reading, I saw this shabad (starts at the bottom of ang 145). How is the first line translated to include 'early hours'? Also, it seems to be suggesting that the early morning rise is useless - constant remembrance is the key.

ਸਲੋਕੁ ਮਃ ੧ ॥
Salok mėhlā 1.
Shalok, First Mehl:

ਸਬਾਹੀ ਸਾਲਾਹ ਜਿਨੀ ਧਿਆਇਆ ਇਕ ਮਨਿ ॥
Sabāhī sālāh jinī ḏẖi▫ā▫i▫ā ik man.
Those who praise the Lord in the early hours of the morning and meditate on Him single-mindedly,

ਸੇਈ ਪੂਰੇ ਸਾਹ ਵਖਤੈ ਉਪਰਿ ਲੜਿ ਮੁਏ ॥
Se▫ī pūre sāh vakẖ▫ṯai upar laṛ mu▫e.
are the perfect kings; at the right time, they die fighting.

ਦੂਜੈ ਬਹੁਤੇ ਰਾਹ ਮਨ ਕੀਆ ਮਤੀ ਖਿੰਡੀਆ ॥
Ḏūjai bahuṯe rāh man kī▫ā maṯī kẖindī▫ā.
In the second watch, the focus of the mind is scattered in all sorts of ways.

ਬਹੁਤੁ ਪਏ ਅਸਗਾਹ ਗੋਤੇ ਖਾਹਿ ਨ ਨਿਕਲਹਿ ॥
Bahuṯ pa▫e asgāh goṯe kẖāhi na niklahi.
So many fall into the bottomless pit; they are dragged under, and they cannot get out again.

ਤੀਜੈ ਮੁਹੀ ਗਿਰਾਹ ਭੁਖ ਤਿਖਾ ਦੁਇ ਭਉਕੀਆ ॥
Ŧījai muhī girāh bẖukẖ ṯikẖā ḏu▫e bẖa▫ukī▫ā.
In the third watch, both hunger and thirst bark for attention, and food is put into the mouth.

ਖਾਧਾ ਹੋਇ ਸੁਆਹ ਭੀ ਖਾਣੇ ਸਿਉ ਦੋਸਤੀ ॥
Kẖāḏẖā ho▫e su▫āh bẖī kẖāṇe si▫o ḏosṯī.
That which is eaten becomes dust, but they are still attached to eating.

ਚਉਥੈ ਆਈ ਊਂਘ ਅਖੀ ਮੀਟਿ ਪਵਾਰਿ ਗਇਆ ॥
Cẖa▫uthai ā▫ī ūʼngẖ akẖī mīt pavār ga▫i▫ā.
In the fourth watch, they become drowsy. They close their eyes and begin to dream.

ਭੀ ਉਠਿ ਰਚਿਓਨੁ ਵਾਦੁ ਸੈ ਵਰ੍ਹ੍ਹਿਆ ਕੀ ਪਿੜ ਬਧੀ ॥
Bẖī uṯẖ racẖi▫on vāḏ sai varėh▫ā kī piṛ baḏẖī.
Rising up again, they engage in conflicts; they set the stage as if they will live for 100 years.

ਸਭੇ ਵੇਲਾ ਵਖਤ ਸਭਿ ਜੇ ਅਠੀ ਭਉ ਹੋਇ ॥
Sabẖe velā vakẖaṯ sabẖ je aṯẖī bẖa▫o ho▫e.
If at all times, at each and every moment, they live in the fear of God -

ਨਾਨਕ ਸਾਹਿਬੁ ਮਨਿ ਵਸੈ ਸਚਾ ਨਾਵਣੁ ਹੋਇ ॥੧॥
Nānak sāhib man vasai sacẖā nāvaṇ ho▫e. ||1||
O Nanak, the Lord dwells within their minds, and their cleansing bath is true. ||1||​

Many thanks.

PS. I changed the thread heading so it is broader.

Ishna Ji

as always i respect your views on all subject matters concerning sikhi...
and i thank you for finding this wonderful amazing shabad which i have never come across before....it is very enlightening.

But

1. you state it seems to suggest the early morning rise is useless
to requote the verse:
Those who praise the Lord in the early hours of the morning and meditate on Him single-mindedly, are the perfect kings; at the right time,
they die fighting.
Can you clarify how Guru Ji after stating they are the perfect kings...and they die fighting...actually meant what they do is useless...very eager to understand your reasoning on this?

2. I understand you are and have been against Amrit vela being a particular portion of the day from past threads etc. But i don't understand how you have come up to your conclusion on this shabad???

Those who praise the Lord in the early hours of the morning and meditate on Him single-mindedly,
are the perfect kings; at the right time, they die fighting.
In the second watch, the focus of the mind is scattered in all sorts of ways.
So many fall into the bottomless pit; they are dragged under, and they cannot get out again.
In the third watch, both hunger and thirst bark for attention, and food is put into the mouth
That which is eaten becomes dust, but they are still attached to eating.
In the fourth watch, they become drowsy. They close their eyes and begin to dream
Rising up again, they engage in conflicts; they set the stage as if they will live for 100 years.
If at all times, at each and every moment, they live in the fear of God -
O Nanak, the Lord dwells within their minds, and their cleansing bath is true. ||1||

it is without doubt absolutely clear, that the first watch as described in the shabad is when the gurmuks are up early doing amrit vela...
the second watch and third watch is when the majority wake up from their sleep and their minds starts working in a million directions. they get dragged under this bottomless pit, over eating, getting up to all sorts...
then the fourth watch they go to sleep and start dreaming again. and so the cycle continues.

BUT, for the one that is up during the first watch (Amrit Vela), they are the perfect kings...they Die Fighting...meaning...they fight the mind as it starts to drift in a million directions...they fight Ego, Lust, Anger Desire and Greed throughout the waking day whilst the rest fall into the bottomless pit. they DIE FIGHTING

to me, here, on this occasion, you have just tried to bend the shabad to fit what you personally believe. Just my opinion.

your thoughts please

God Bless

 

[chazSingh]

I am respecting your thread, Chaz Ji. Please respect mine.

Many thanks.

Ishna Ji, in what way am i not respecting your thread...you started a thread for a discussion asking for peoples views? mine is for people that are doing amrit vela as per certain part of the day then living the rest of the day with God in mind and in truthful deeds...or atleast trying to

whereas your thread is for general views, opinions and discussion...so where have i not respected your thread?

God Bless

 

[Ishna]

Chaz Ji

Your post #30 gives the impression of disrespect, imho.

Thanks

 

[chazSingh]

God in Mind 24/7

I feel compelled to repost a shabad i posted above...which i feel describes how we can have God in mind 24/7... The shabad for me, states

1. the importance of Amrit Vela Simran/Contemplation etc.
2. and then goes on to describe what we must do through the rest of the Day ... making up the 24/7 i.e. do truthful deeds, sit with like minded people and do vichar...and this can be anything like...sharing with the needy...discussing on forum sikhi topics...etc etc.

This goes very close to being 24/7... during my 24 hours in a day...I am sleeping for 4-5 hours max, the rest is my usual wakeful life...and 2-3 hours during Amrit vela.

The avarage person will sleep between 6 and 9 hours in a day, then they are straight into their busy hectic life. so personally i fail to see how they can have god in mind 24/7

Has any other Amrit Vela practicing sikhs ever had their simran continue during their sleep? i often can hear 'waheuguru' whilst i am sleeping...

ਸਲੋਕ ਮਃ ੨ ॥
सलोक मः २ ॥
Salok mėhlā 2.
Shalok, Second Mehl:
ਅਠੀ ਪਹਰੀ ਅਠ ਖੰਡ ਨਾਵਾ ਖੰਡੁ ਸਰੀਰੁ ॥
अठी पहरी अठ खंड नावा खंडु सरीरु ॥
Aṯẖī pahrī aṯẖ kẖand nāvā kẖand sarīr.
Twenty-four hours a day, destroy the eight things, and in the ninth place, conquer the body.
ਤਿਸੁ ਵਿਚਿ ਨਉ ਨਿਧਿ ਨਾਮੁ ਏਕੁ ਭਾਲਹਿ ਗੁਣੀ ਗਹੀਰੁ ॥
तिसु विचि नउ निधि नामु एकु भालहि गुणी गहीरु ॥
Ŧis vicẖ na▫o niḏẖ nām ek bẖālėh guṇī gahīr.
Within the body are the nine treasures of the Name of the Lord-seek the depths of these virtues.
ਕਰਮਵੰਤੀ ਸਾਲਾਹਿਆ ਨਾਨਕ ਕਰਿ ਗੁਰੁ ਪੀਰੁ ॥
करमवंती सालाहिआ नानक करि गुरु पीरु ॥
Karamvanṯī salāhi▫ā Nānak kar gur pīr.
Those blessed with the karma of good actions praise the Lord. O Nanak, they make the Guru their spiritual teacher.
ਚਉਥੈ ਪਹਰਿ ਸਬਾਹ ਕੈ ਸੁਰਤਿਆ ਉਪਜੈ ਚਾਉ ॥
चउथै पहरि सबाह कै सुरतिआ उपजै चाउ ॥
Cẖa▫uthai pahar sabāh kai surṯi▫ā upjai cẖā▫o.
In the fourth watch of the early morning hours, a longing arises in their higher consciousness.
ਤਿਨਾ ਦਰੀਆਵਾ ਸਿਉ ਦੋਸਤੀ ਮਨਿ ਮੁਖਿ ਸਚਾ ਨਾਉ ॥
तिना दरीआवा सिउ दोसती मनि मुखि सचा नाउ ॥
Ŧinā ḏarī▫āvā si▫o ḏosṯī man mukẖ sacẖā nā▫o.
They are attuned to the river of life; the True Name is in their minds and on their lips.
ਓਥੈ ਅੰਮ੍ਰਿਤੁ ਵੰਡੀਐ ਕਰਮੀ ਹੋਇ ਪਸਾਉ ॥
ओथै अम्रितु वंडीऐ करमी होइ पसाउ ॥
Othai amriṯ vandī▫ai karmī ho▫e pasā▫o.
The Ambrosial Nectar is distributed, and those with good karma receive this gift.
ਕੰਚਨ ਕਾਇਆ ਕਸੀਐ ਵੰਨੀ ਚੜੈ ਚੜਾਉ ॥
कंचन काइआ कसीऐ वंनी चड़ै चड़ाउ ॥
Kancẖan kā▫i▫ā kasī▫ai vannī cẖaṛai cẖaṛā▫o.
Their bodies become golden, and take on the color of spirituality.
ਜੇ ਹੋਵੈ ਨਦਰਿ ਸਰਾਫ ਕੀ ਬਹੁੜਿ ਨ ਪਾਈ ਤਾਉ ॥
जे होवै नदरि सराफ की बहुड़ि न पाई ताउ ॥
Je hovai naḏar sarāf kī bahuṛ na pā▫ī ṯā▫o.
If the Jeweler casts His Glance of Grace, they are not placed in the fire again.
ਸਤੀ ਪਹਰੀ ਸਤੁ ਭਲਾ ਬਹੀਐ ਪੜਿਆ ਪਾਸਿ ॥
सती पहरी सतु भला बहीऐ पड़िआ पासि ॥
Saṯī pahrī saṯ bẖalā bahī▫ai paṛi▫ā pās.
Throughout the other seven watches of the day, it is good to speak the Truth, and sit with the spiritually wise.
ਓਥੈ ਪਾਪੁ ਪੁੰਨੁ ਬੀਚਾਰੀਐ ਕੂੜੈ ਘਟੈ ਰਾਸਿ ॥
ओथै पापु पुंनु बीचारीऐ कूड़ै घटै रासि ॥
Othai pāp punn bīcẖārī▫ai kūrhai gẖatai rās.
There, vice and virtue are distinguished, and the capital of falsehood is decreased.
ਓਥੈ ਖੋਟੇ ਸਟੀਅਹਿ ਖਰੇ ਕੀਚਹਿ ਸਾਬਾਸਿ ॥
ओथै खोटे सटीअहि खरे कीचहि साबासि ॥
Othai kẖote satī▫ah kẖare kīcẖėh sābās.
There, the counterfeit are cast aside, and the genuine are cheered.
ਬੋਲਣੁ ਫਾਦਲੁ ਨਾਨਕਾ ਦੁਖੁ ਸੁਖੁ ਖਸਮੈ ਪਾਸਿ ॥੧॥
बोलणु फादलु नानका दुखु सुखु खसमै पासि ॥१॥
Bolaṇ fāḏal nānkā ḏukẖ sukẖ kẖasmai pās. ||1||
Speech is vain and useless. O Nanak, pain and pleasure are in the power of our Lord and Master. ||1||

The AMbroisial Nectar is distributed at this time (Amrit Vela)...a longing arises in the higher consciousness...bodies become golden...
and then for the rest of the wakeful day:
speak the truth, do truthful deeds, share with the needy, do vichar, contemplate...have god in mind always and in every deed.

This makes up the 24/7 of the truth seeker who is still stuck in Maya (like me) for the sikh that no longer wants to just believe or have faith...but wants to KNOW FOR REAL...

This in my humble opinions is the solution put forward by Guru Ji.

God Bless all

 

[Ishna]

Ishna Ji

as always i respect your views on all subject matters concerning sikhi...
and i thank you for finding this wonderful amazing shabad which i have never come across before....it is very enlightening.

But

1. you state it seems to suggest the early morning rise is useless
to requote the verse:
Those who praise the Lord in the early hours of the morning and meditate on Him single-mindedly, are the perfect kings; at the right time,
they die fighting.
Can you clarify how Guru Ji after stating they are the perfect kings...and they die fighting...actually meant what they do is useless...very eager to understand your reasoning on this?

2. I understand you are and have been against Amrit vela being a particular portion of the day from past threads etc. But i don't understand how you have come up to your conclusion on this shabad???

Those who praise the Lord in the early hours of the morning and meditate on Him single-mindedly,
are the perfect kings; at the right time, they die fighting.
In the second watch, the focus of the mind is scattered in all sorts of ways.
So many fall into the bottomless pit; they are dragged under, and they cannot get out again.
In the third watch, both hunger and thirst bark for attention, and food is put into the mouth
That which is eaten becomes dust, but they are still attached to eating.
In the fourth watch, they become drowsy. They close their eyes and begin to dream
Rising up again, they engage in conflicts; they set the stage as if they will live for 100 years.
If at all times, at each and every moment, they live in the fear of God -
O Nanak, the Lord dwells within their minds, and their cleansing bath is true. ||1||

it is without doubt absolutely clear, that the first watch as described in the shabad is when the gurmuks are up early doing amrit vela...
the second watch and third watch is when the majority wake up from their sleep and their minds starts working in a million directions. they get dragged under this bottomless pit, over eating, getting up to all sorts...
then the fourth watch they go to sleep and start dreaming again. and so the cycle continues.

BUT, for the one that is up during the first watch (Amrit Vela), they are the perfect kings...they Die Fighting...meaning...they fight the mind as it starts to drift in a million directions...they fight Ego, Lust, Anger Desire and Greed throughout the waking day whilst the rest fall into the bottomless pit. they DIE FIGHTING

to me, here, on this occasion, you have just tried to bend the shabad to fit what you personally believe. Just my opinion.

your thoughts please

God Bless

Chaz Ji

Thank you for providing another perspective of this shabad (starts at the bottom of panna 145). I had not considered that the perfect kings who die fighting are not the same people who go astray in the second, third and fourth watches of the day.

Here are my thoughts on the shabad, which leads to my own understanding of it:

The first shalok describes people who remember Guru in the morning, but forget It during the day, as they are distracted by life. Those people die fighting their thieves in the world. The paurhi ends with a reminder to keep to Fear of God in mind at all times.

The second shalok (near the top of panna 146) has a totally different tone. It starts by saying the perfect kings are imbued with Love twenty-four hours a day.

The paurhi at the end doesn't mention time at all.​

So for me personally, the focus of the shabad is on remembering Guru at all times, not one specific time.

However, the next shabad, #18, has me intrigued. You have already mentioned it, here or in your other thread, so I will be contemplating it and look forward to further discussion with you about it. EDIT: Incidentally, it was the one you posted above, which I didn't see until after I posted this message.

Thanks

 

[chazSingh]

Chaz Ji

Thank you for providing another perspective on the shabad. I had not read it from the perspective that the 'perfect kings' who die in battle are not the same people as described in the following tuks of that paurhi.

To explain how I reached my understanding of the shabad:

I read the first paurhi as describing people who forget Guru. It is a struggle, there are so many distractions. The shabad talks about the first, second, third and fourth watches of the day, and ends with a reminder to keep the Fear of God at all times. It seems that even if they are focused on Guru in the first watch, if they forget during the day, it is useless.

The second paurhi of this shabad has a different tone:


Chaz Ji

Thank you for providing another perspective of this shabad (starts at the bottom of panna 145). I had not considered that the perfect kings who die fighting are not the same people who go astray in the second, third and fourth watches of the day.

Here are my thoughts on the shabad, which leads to my own understanding of it:

The first shalok describes people who remember Guru in the morning, but forget It during the day, as they are distracted by life. Those people die fighting their thieves in the world. The paurhi ends with a reminder to keep to Fear of God in mind at all times.

The second shalok (near the top of panna 146) has a totally different tone. It starts by saying the perfect kings are imbued with Love twenty-four hours a day.

The paurhi at the end doesn't mention time at all.​

So for me personally, the focus of the shabad is on remembering Guru at all times, not one specific time.

However, the next shabad, #18, has me intrigued. You have already mentioned it, here or in your other thread, so I will be contemplating it and look forward to further discussion with you about it.

Thanks

so they are perfect...but not really perfect....they die fighting...but always fail....so are perfect in the sense they die trying...but not perfect because they fail to rememeber god 24/7...

but the one who sleep during the night...wakes up and falls into the bottomless pit anyway...somehow managed to remember god 24/7 even though he/she is stuck in dreams for a third of the day..

Guru Ji!!!! why call them perfect KINGS then!...you are confusing us and we are wasting precious time wondering what you are saying..

 

[Ishna]

I'm confused now, too. *re-reads the shabad*

 

[Ishna]

so they are perfect...but not really perfect....they die fighting...but always fail....so are perfect in the sense they die trying...but not perfect because they fail to rememeber god 24/7...

but the one who sleep during the night...wakes up and falls into the bottomless pit anyway...somehow managed to remember god 24/7 even though he/she is stuck in dreams for a third of the day..

makes perfect sense now? or not perfect sense...arrrgh....confused....or am i really not consufed...? Guru ji really has a way with words...or does he...

I think what the shabad is describing is people who fail (in the first shalok) and people who succeed (in the second shalok). But I am no expert, just sharing the impression I get. I don't think the entire message of the shabad can be gleaned from one tuk.

Also, I asked a question earlier, about how the first line:

ਸਬਾਹੀ ਸਾਲਾਹ ਜਿਨੀ ਧਿਆਇਆ ਇਕ ਮਨਿ ॥
Sabāhī sālāh jinī ḏẖi▫ā▫i▫ā ik man.
Those who praise the Lord in the early hours of the morning and meditate on Him single-mindedly​

translates to 'early hours of the morning'. I am a language geek and my curiosity is getting the better of me.