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Amrit Vela / Early Rising - What Does Gurbani Say?

Original

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Whilst, Gur Ghar and the general consensus at that particular time in history glorified AV, it is not to be taken as the BnE of all there is to Sikhi. AV is one organ of a huge body of organs. In principle, it is down to the choice of the individual and not a directive per se. However, for very many practical, environmental and evolutionary reasons it is recommended that AV ought to be a priority amongst other times for nam simran [from an ideology perspective]. Evaulating through discussion may clarify and help understand the subject matter but will not determine a hard n fast rule for or against. The decision in my view will have to be one of common sense rather than intellectual debate n discussion. Yes, as a practitioner of AV there are advantages, these advantages, as much as I would like to pass on, I reserve not because I firmly believe it is not an exercise which is socially induced but naturally accrued from a contemplative mind and not a remedy based prescriptive.

How the gurus lived then and how we live now must be taken into account to allow evolution to have a say.
 

chazSingh

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I'm confused now, too. *re-reads the shabad*

to be called perfect kings and fighters who die fighting...is not the language of people that fail...no matter how you put it or which angle you look at it....these are the true warriors...they wake up do amrit vela, then they die fighting throughout the rest of the day...

they are constantly in battle with their 5 thieves...hence being called perfect Kings and warriors by Guru Ji.

but i'm sure there are people that do not do Amrit Vela who also do this battle...

it is when shabads state that during amrit vela the true cleansing bath takes place...or when ambrosal nectar is distributed that my mind thought....ahh....lets try this.

have never looked back since...

each to their own i guess

best practice is to just try and evaluate...the love and explorer in you is very visible already...trial and error...try things
 
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Original

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Chaz, do me a favour, call it day on this bro ! AV is an exclusive zone reserved for the contemplative and not the wandering mind. Just imagine if sizeable population were to give into your train of thought n started practicing ? There'll be nowhere to sit !

Thank God its membership only !
 

chazSingh

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Chaz, do me a favour, call it day on this bro ! AV is an exclusive zone reserved for the contemplative and not the wandering mind. Just imagine if sizeable population were to give into your train of thought n started practicing ? There'll be nowhere to sit !

Thank God its membership only !

nowhere to sit...oh i do love stretching out my legs...

over n out...

god bless the original G
 

chazSingh

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Chaz Singh ji,

Guru fateh.

Would you care to elaborate your above thought?

Thanks

well..everytime i ask you to give you opinions on a shabad...you reply back with ... "yes, but first please give your opinion"...

it always comes across to me like you either don;t have the time. or you just want to hear others views and then find little faults in them...and then you never get around to actually doing what was asked of you...

that's the impression i get from past exchanges...

i think my view of the shabads is pretty clear...of whole shabads and certain lines if you scroll through the threads..i just wish when asked you would do the same rather than reversing it

God bless
 

Tejwant Singh

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Chaz Singh ji,

Guru Fateh.

well..everytime i ask you to give you opinions on a shabad...you reply back with ... "yes, but first please give your opinion"..

That's very true because as you or anyone else copies and pastes any Shabad, I would like to know the poster's personal understanding first so I can learn from it.

The best example would be Ishna ji. Whenever she posts the Shabad/s, she always gives her own understanding. Wouldn't you like to understand the shabad yourself before sharing it with us?Common sense demands that. We are not here to spoon feed our version but we all want to learn from each other's viewpoint regarding the Shabad/s posted.

Do you have any problem with sharing your understanding with us? Why this reluctance?

it always comes across to me like you either don;t have the time. or you just want to hear others views and then find little faults in them...and then you never get around to actually doing what was asked of you...

How sharing my personal understanding of the Shabad posted is finding faults in people's understanding of the same from a different angle? Please elaborate it.

Chaz Ji, you are contradicting yourself now. Here is what you said above. "you just want to hear others views and then find little faults in them...and then you never get around to actually doing what was asked of you.

I am a bit confused about the your contradiction above. Please elaborate your doublespeak. Do I give my understanding or not? You can not have it both ways. Perhaps, you misspoke. Please clarify.

I recently had an interaction with Original ji who has a deep understanding of Gurbani about our disagreement with the meaning of the word ਜਪੁ. It is OK to disagree. I did not find faults in his understanding. I also urged him to explain the difference between ਜਪੁ and ਜਪਿ because in the literal translation in English it shows only one meaning- to chant. If our visionary Gurus wanted to give the same meaning then, why would they use two different words, the question you should ask yourself whenever you copy and paste the Shabads?

I guess Original ji is busy but I am awaiting his understanding about the difference between the two words so we can discuss it further because I admire and cherish his understanding about Gurbani.

This is the learning process, plain and simple. Do you disagree with that?

I will give you one more recent example about Kundalini whose understanding you disagreed with without even posting any Shabad. When you asked me about my understanding, I gave you the following link and urged you to share your findings with us.You just laughed it off. I have no idea why you are good at copying and pasting but not expressing your personal view.

http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.gurbani?S=y

Once again, why this reluctance from you? Wouldn't you like to understand the correct version of Gurbani for your own personal growth?

i think my view of the shabads is pretty clear...of whole shabads and certain lines if you scroll through the threads..i just wish when asked you would do the same rather than reversing it

Do you think or you know?

If you see many of my posts, you would notice that I often repeat that the English Literal translation is misleading and incorrect. The case in point is the above two words ਜਪੁ and ਜਪਿ. Please share with us the difference.

Are you trying to say that you agree with the incorrect/misleading literal translation as you claim you do?

Is this the way you understand Gurbani?

Please clarify.

Thanks & regards

Tejwant Singh
 
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Jan 18, 2011
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Let me write something as to what i understand by Amrit wela. Yes, that time is amrit vela when you remember of him, the lord and yes we have to remember i.e keep our consciousness all the time at his feet, we should live in his memory. Now, why do we have to live in his memory is because we want to be one with him, and that's what Guru sahib has said in SGGS that to be one with him is the goal of the human life. Now it is not easy because the soul is distracted by so many things on this sphere, so many worldly things and it is entangled. Now, we have to get rid of these entanglements and that's why we have to keep our conscious (Dhyan) in him, because the lust of these worldly things has kept the soul in this sphere. But, it is easier said than done.

It is not easy at all to keep our conscious so high all the time. So, initially ,we in the process of disentanglement need to be free of the worldly chaos, and for this the best time of the day is the early morning time. At this time of the day we have to keep our conscious at the feet of the Lord, we have to keep thinking of him during this time of the day, at least we have to start. Gradually the mind develops this habit and our conscious remains 24x7 in him.

So, its all about keeping our conscious in him all the time and it can be nurtured with time and the best time to start with is the early morning hours because at that time the mind is calm and body is fresh, nobody knocks at your door, the roads are calm, no honking, so this time can be referred to as amrit vela and it has been by Guru sahib, now if anyone doesn't agree with their (Guru Sahib's) experience its really egoistic of one and one has to do some serious research on everything.

Now at last those who say everytime is Amrit wela, do you always keep thinking of the lord? If yes, anytime is amrit vela for you and if not, it is not amrit wela for you and if you are just fighting with others about the Amrit wela you have just been Hypocritical.
 

Tejwant Singh

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Chaz, do me a favour, call it day on this bro ! AV is an exclusive zone reserved for the contemplative and not the wandering mind. Just imagine if sizeable population were to give into your train of thought n started practicing ? There'll be nowhere to sit !

Thank God its membership only !

Original ji,

Guru Fateh.

Can you please give references to your claim above from the SGGS, our only Guru? I thought Sikhi was the only way of life which is open to all, not "Thank God its membership only" !

It seems from your post that you claim to have the membership for this exclusive club.

How do you know who does and who does not?

Please share your modus operandi- here comes the hi-tech word again- with us so those of us here who you claim do not have the membership to this exclusive club, can also get it.

Thanks and regards.

Tejwant Singh
 

japjisahib04

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Now at last those who say everytime is Amrit wela, do you always keep thinking of the lord? If yes, anytime is amrit vela for you and if not, it is not amrit wela for you and if you are just fighting with others about the Amrit wela you have just been Hypocritical.
Amrit means sweet and question is by thinking of Lord can my life becomes sweet or by living as per the guidance of sabd guru my life becomes sweet all the time, thus gurbani strongly says, 'ਓਹ ਬੇਲਾ ਕਉ ਹਉ ਬਲਿ ਜਾਉ॥ I ਜਿਤੁ ਮੇਰਾ ਮਨੁ ਜਪੈ ਹਰਿ ਨਾਉ॥੧॥ਰਹਾਉ॥ the moment I am able to imbibe that jewels which makes my life meaningful for the humanity, I am sacrifice to that specific time. The ritualistic mumbling whether we do early in the morning or any time of the day is futile. It seems the confusion is in understanding the meaning of bhagti. Gurmat bhagti is 'ਤਨੁ ਮਨੁ ਧਨੁ ਅਰਪਉ ਤਿਸੈ ਪ੍ਰਭੂ ਮਿਲਾਵੈ ਮੋਹਿ ॥ ਨਾਨਕ ਭ੍ਰਮ ਭਉ ਕਾਟੀਐ ਚੂਕੈ ਜਮ ਕੀ ਜੋਹ ॥੧॥ or ਤਨੁ ਮਨੁ ਧਨੁ ਸਭੁ ਸਉਪਿ ਗੁਰ ਕਉ ਹੁਕਮਿ ਮੰਨਿਐ ਪਾਈਐ ॥ tendering my thought process alongwith accumulated wealth of shortcoming is bhagti and not mumbling. Surprising until I understand and confess, ' ਹਮ ਅੰਧੁਲੇ ਅੰਧ ਬਿਖੈ ਬਿਖੁ ਰਾਤੇ ਕਿਉ ਚਾਲਹ ਗੁਰ ਚਾਲੀ ॥ my lantern inside is switched off and how to enlighten it, I cannot make my life meaningfull. To outer 'jyotajalani' is like showing prakash to God and not to our manh.
 

chazSingh

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I think I will go by my own personal experience. At this present moment in time...something deep within prods me to get up at Amrit Vela.

This something I cannot deny...and will not deny...it's too powerful. No matter what you believe go by what you feel deep wuthin...the answers come flooding forward and no doubt remains...

No doubt whatsoever...when the things you read in garbani flash before your very eyes..

No doubt...seek it...test the theory

Got bless all....over and out.
 

Ishna

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.you are confusing us and we are wasting precious time wondering what you are saying..

Chaz Ji

I only just saw this part of your post. If you can't understand my posts, then don't read them. There's no reason to be so rude.

Thank you for sharing as many early morning posts as you already have, however I am finished discussing it with you.

Thanks
 

Ishna

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People are invited to read some shabads from Sri Raag, starting on panna 43. Shabad after shabad blatantly reinforces the concept of remembering Naam and God at all times. This is clearly priority for Gursikhs. Everyone should do whatever they need to do to achieve this, and all their actions will be good-natured, because they can only see the One.
 

Harry Haller

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Whilst, Gur Ghar and the general consensus at that particular time in history glorified AV

Do we know this for sure, seems to be that Sikhism started off completely pragmatic, why if this was another religion, Guru Nanakji, by his reputation, would surely be standing outside peoples houses at 5am waving a pair of underpants and ruining peoples Amrit Vela, in order to show the point that every second of every day is Amrit Vela. If we were to assume that for a while Sikhism stood for all the things other religions do not, and then over time, due to continued Vedic influence and Abrahamic translation ended up where it is today.
AV is one organ of a huge body of organs.

its actually a contradiction given the nature of this religion
In principle, it is down to the choice of the individual and not a directive per se.

that is like saying giving water to the sun god is also a choice of the individual

However, for very many practical, environmental and evolutionary reasons it is recommended that AV ought to be a priority amongst other times for nam simran [from an ideology perspective]

now you see, if you do not accept nam simran as being repetitious words, the whole concept becomes moot.
Evaulating through discussion may clarify and help understand the subject matter but will not determine a hard n fast rule for or against. The decision in my view will have to be one of common sense rather than intellectual debate n discussion. Yes, as a practitioner of AV there are advantages, these advantages, as much as I would like to pass on, I reserve not because I firmly believe it is not an exercise which is socially induced but naturally accrued from a contemplative mind and not a remedy based prescriptive.

How the gurus lived then and how we live now must be taken into account to allow evolution to have a say.

is there a discussion here? for all the talk of quiet mornings, birds chirping, its very simple, is there anything particularly more holy or spiritual about 3am than say 3pm?

The Gurus in my view were very very perceptive visionaires, very intelligent, very far seeing, they knew how the world was going, they knew what they had left behind, nominating a time as more holy than another simply would have been a step backwards.
 

Harry Haller

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to be called perfect kings and fighters who die fighting...is not the language of people that fail...no matter how you put it or which angle you look at it....these are the true warriors...they wake up do amrit vela, then they die fighting throughout the rest of the day...

is that every day?

they are constantly in battle with their 5 thieves...hence being called perfect Kings and warriors by Guru Ji.

so life is a constant battle with the five thieves?

but i'm sure there are people that do not do Amrit Vela who also do this battle...

does rather beg the question as what is the point of Amrit Vela then ? I mean if doing Amrit Vela meant no more battles fair enough.

it is when shabads state that during amrit vela the true cleansing bath takes place...or when ambrosal nectar is distributed that my mind thought....ahh....lets try this.

and this magical Amrit Vela that cleanses you, when it gets down to brass tacks, is chanting words and meditating?
each to their own i guess

best practice is to just try and evaluate...the love and explorer in you is very visible already...trial and error...try things

well i am trying and evaluating not doing it, each to their own eh?
 

Harry Haller

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Original ji,

Guru Fateh.

Can you please give references to your claim above from the SGGS, our only Guru? I thought Sikhi was the only way of life which is open to all, not "Thank God its membership only" !

It seems from your post that you claim to have the membership for this exclusive club.

How do you know who does and who does not?

Please share your modus operandi- here comes the hi-tech word again- with us so those of us here who you claim do not have the membership to this exclusive club, can also get it.

Thanks and regards.

Tejwant Singh

Originalji believes that we are called when the time is right to appreciate Amrit Vela, you and I believe that when the time is right we are called to see life through clear glass, we are clearly at different levels in our thinking and agenda, thats ok, maybe we will never be called, maybe Originalji will never be called, its all part of the great dance, the great show, enjoy the show people, let us not take ourself too seriously, we are all masters of panga at heart.
 

Tejwant Singh

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Chaz ji,

Guru Fateh.

As you are a passionate lover of Simran, have you heard about a group called Dodra?

They are all around the world. If you have not, you should check them out. You will love their Simran gatherings.
 
Jan 18, 2011
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Amrit means sweet
Well meaning of amrit is far from being understood these days. Amrit means something after having which you dont die. And i dont think amrit needs to be sweet all the time, cant it be Tasteless or sour or salty?
and question is by thinking of Lord can my life becomes sweet or by living as per the guidance of sabd guru my life becomes sweet all the time
Well Thinking about the lord means thinking about the satguru all the time and the irony is that we are not living as per the guidelines of the shabad guru.

thus gurbani strongly says, 'ਓਹ ਬੇਲਾ ਕਉ ਹਉ ਬਲਿ ਜਾਉ॥ I ਜਿਤੁ ਮੇਰਾ ਮਨੁ ਜਪੈ ਹਰਿ ਨਾਉ॥੧॥ਰਹਾਉ॥ the moment I am able to imbibe that jewels which makes my life meaningful for the humanity, I am sacrifice to that specific time.

With all due respect i must say ,I dont agree with translation that you have provided. Where does the humanity come in from? Lets try n make our lives meaningful for us First. A more appropriate translation according to me would be "I am a sacrifice to the time when i meditate on the Lords name Within" .
The ritualistic mumbling whether we do early in the morning or any time of the day is futile.
No ritualistic mumbling my friend, it has to be done within and yes getting Up early morning is no ritual. Ever wondered why 100 m sprinters always take that awkward stance of bending forward before the race begins? It gives them that thrust that start that they look for otherwise there is no necessity of getting into a stance and start running. Its all science my friend ,that morning time gives that kick start which focuses your mind more, don't confuse science with rituals.
It seems the confusion is in understanding the meaning of bhagti. Gurmat bhagti is 'ਤਨੁ ਮਨੁ ਧਨੁ ਅਰਪਉ ਤਿਸੈ ਪ੍ਰਭੂ ਮਿਲਾਵੈ ਮੋਹਿ ॥ ਨਾਨਕ ਭ੍ਰਮ ਭਉ ਕਾਟੀਐ ਚੂਕੈ ਜਮ ਕੀ ਜੋਹ ॥੧॥ or ਤਨੁ ਮਨੁ ਧਨੁ ਸਭੁ ਸਉਪਿ ਗੁਰ ਕਉ ਹੁਕਮਿ ਮੰਨਿਐ ਪਾਈਐ ॥ tendering my thought process alongwith accumulated wealth of shortcoming is bhagti and not mumbling.
ਤਨੁ ਮਨੁ ਧਨੁ ਅਰਪਉ ਤਿਸੈ ਪ੍ਰਭੂ ਮਿਲਾਵੈ ਮੋਹਿ ॥

I Offer my mind, body and wealth in other words everything to one who can make me meet the Lord.
Now this is interesting, few years back i posted a post somewhere and it had the content that we need external help from someone who has already walked that path so that we can be lead to the lord. Some guys made a mockery of it and said why do we need an intermediator to meet the lord? Now the above tuk clarifies and bolsters that point. Now, only guru sahib needed someone who could make them meet the lord? Obviously we also do.

Coming back to the subject Offering everything to the one who can lead to the lord means to start living in the will of the one who can lead you to the lord, obviously they don't need your wealth or body and how can one offer their mann to someone? That's done by living in their will. And this is not my point of view, this is guru sahibans.

ਤਨੁ ਮਨੁ ਧਨੁ ਅਰਪਉ ਤਿਸੈ ਪ੍ਰਭੂ ਮਿਲਾਵੈ ਮੋਹਿ ॥

And the significance of having someone to lead us to the Lord is further magnified by what you wrote
' ਹਮ ਅੰਧੁਲੇ ਅੰਧ ਬਿਖੈ ਬਿਖੁ ਰਾਤੇ ਕਿਉ ਚਾਲਹ ਗੁਰ ਚਾਲੀ ॥
Although Guru sahib took it on himself , obviously he meant the ਹਮ ਅੰਧੁਲੇ for us manmukhs, As we are ਅੰਧੁਲੇ we need someone who can lead us.
To outer 'jyotajalani' is like showing prakash to God and not to our manh.
Oh yes buddy outer jot has no significance at all and to have that light within we need to go within and to go within we need to meet someone who has already went within.
On Ang 293

|| ਸਲੋਕੁ ॥
ਗਿਆਨ ਅੰਜਨੁ ਗੁਰਿ ਦੀਆ ਅਗਿਆਨ ਅੰਧੇਰ ਬਿਨਾਸੁ ॥
The Guru has put the collyrium of wisdom in my eye and the darkness of ignorance has dispelled away.

ਹਰਿ ਕਿਰਪਾ ਤੇ ਸੰਤ ਭੇਟਿਆ ਨਾਨਕ ਮਨਿ ਪਰਗਾਸੁ ॥੧॥
With Lords grace I have met the saint, O Nanak, my mind is enlightened.

And wherever i have mentioned" the one who leads us to the Lord" i meant A True Saint.

Regards,
Nirmaljot Singh Baidwan.
 

Tejwant Singh

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Guru Fateh to all.

I think the Pro Amritvela group has misunderstood what the other side of the fence is trying to convey. I would like to add something to it rather than having a sabre match with bamboo sticks.

I understand you think that Amritvela is early in the morning and I respect your stance although I do not agree with that. But as far as getting up in the early morning is concerned, no one is disputing about that, when the birds begin to chirp, the dew drops are sitting on the petals, like the pearls in the open oysters before the first rays of the Sun gulp them all up at once while they are still rippling with life.

It is the moment of contemplation when the ex- marathoners and now the power walkers like me start their stroll at 3:30am while listening to Kirtan for two some hours. The beads of sweat seem like dew drops on the petals of life.The moments are like having a board meeting with the self for what lies ahead and how to use the Gurmat values to tackle the winding roads of life. These moments are full of serenity while one can feel one's own breath exhaling to be free.

The dispute here is that for many of us Amritvela is anytime of the day with or sans dew drops. So, it is futile to become the gladiators in the open arena where the only spectators are ourselves waiting for the lions to devour us when they are let loose. Let's not let that happen. Some people do like their morning slumber.

Do not forget to set up your morning wake up body clocks.

Tejwant Singh
 
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