Anyone Have Any Unanswered Questions On Sikhi Or God?

[Sikhilove]

Although I admire your modesty, sorry to correct you but your wrong, this is a forum where we back up what we write with substance, you have a habit of avoiding answering questions that you are unable to, that is not gyan, I have asked you several times if you live by what you write, you have refused, you talk of living by nothing of being nothing, yet you are getting married and have travelled to the middle east, that does not make sense to me, can you clarify your position please, if you have this much gyan and knowledge, how does being nothing and wanting nothing allow you to travel and fall in love?

The answers lie in Guru Granth Sahib Ji. Here is a place to explain and expand on the gyan, if youve already read it and accepted it, theres no need to waste time quoting which i did anyway, when i wrote dukh daru sukh rog Bhaiya.

If I could read the whole Granth in my teens, it can't be that much of a difficult thing to do.

 

[Harry]

The answers lie in Guru Granth Sahib Ji. Here is a place to explain and expand on the gyan, if youve already read it and accepted it, theres no need to waste time quoting which i did anyway, when i wrote dukh daru sukh rog Bhaiya.

If I could read the whole Granth in my teens, it can't be that much of a difficult thing to do.

more proselytising, still no answers, and quoting one liners to support an agenda is not, I do believe, why the SGGS was written, if you are going to quote, please quote the full shabad with your understanding of it and why it is relevant.

Reading, understanding and then living the SGGS would seem the logical step to following such, solely reading will not really get you anywhere, other than raising your ego, clearly understanding did not take place otherwise you would not be pushing websites for living Gurus. Unless you are willing to waste time clarifying your posts, I am afraid that your role appears to be pushing your own agenda, without even following it, which is not acceptable as per the terms and conditions of this forum.

 

[Theologian.]

Have you read Guru Granth Sahib Ji?

I have read and studied it as well as other religious books; but still not enough.

Let me ask you a question then if you feel your knowledge or understanding is greater.

Question) Who covers the sins of each of us here on Earth? After the phrase used by Guru Granth Sahib Ji.

 

[Theologian.]

SGGS is quite clear....there is nothing but God...
there is no other space outside of God, and there is no 'other'
Ego was created to form the illusion of the 'other' but its all God...

So if Evil Exists, if good exists....hot cold, light dark etc....then it exists within God...nothing can be outside of God...there is no other place but God..

This is what we will never get our heads (ego) around...we have to search for experience of this...of God...and have it in this moment, in this life...

Duality is a creation of God...it is temporary....
we must seek to experience the Permanent...True Love...God
Duality, evil, good and bad, creation...will dissolve away...once we start to experience the one...and understand it...undertand we're one....just one...

even the opposite of Permanent is the temporary lol....experiencing the Temporary allows us to seek and then experience the One lol...experiencing darkness made humans question what the opposite was...they called it 'light'...then they studied it, ran experiments...now it's written in science books
Without darkness existing...no one would have ever questioned what light is...why would they if there was no opposite..

Your statement: "there is no other space outside of God, and there is no 'other'"
Then after: "Ego was created to form the illusion of the 'other'"

God is NOT evil, please refer a quote; I have asked for this and I am getting your views rather than giving the views of the higher knowledge of the Gurbani. Same goes for Sikhilove; who keeps iterating they have read it and not post one quote with the words along the line of: 'God is evil'.

Here are some of my quotes to finish my case that God is NOT evil. God does however have POWER over evil, as he is the highest authority, but he is not evil. He does not go around giving people cancers and sufferings, evil does. Hence God is NOT evil. The messenger of death and demons are quoted on several times, do you think a demon or God is more plausible to you? Or will you continue to defend something so much that you can not ever be wrong even if quotes are put in front of you. I make many mistakes every day, I have a foolish head. But I realised my mistakes and how to deal with them.

kwm k®oD moh bis pRwnI hir mUriq ibsrweI ] (219-5)
kaam kroDh moh bas paraanee har moorat bisraa-ee.
The mortal beings are held in the power of sexual desire, anger and emotional attachment; they have forgotten the Lord
Aihinis AauD GtY nhI jwnY BieE loB sMig haurw ]1] rhwau ] (220-9)
ahinis a-oDh ghatai nahee jaanai bha-i-o lobh sang ha-uraa. ||1|| rahaa-o.
Don't you know that your life is decreasing, day and night? Your life is made worthless with greed. ||1||Pause||
jo qnu qY Apno kir mwinE Aru suMdr igRh nwrI ] (220-9)
jo tan tai apno kar maani-o ar sundar garih naaree.
That body, which you believe to be your own, and your beautiful home and spouse
ien mYN kCu qyro ry nwhin dyKo soc ibcwrI ]1] (220-10)
in maiN kachh tayro ray naahan daykho soch bichaaree. ||1||
- none of these is yours to keep. See this, reflect upon it and understand
nr Acyq pwp qy fru ry ] (220-13)
nar achayt paap tay dar ray.
You people are unconscious; you should be afraid of sin.
mwns dyh bhuir nh pwvY kCU aupwau mukiq kw kru ry ] (220-15)
maanas dayh bahur nah paavai kachhoo upaa-o mukat kaa kar ray.
You shall not obtain this human body again; make the effort - try to achieve liberation!

mnu vis dUqw durmiq doie ] (222-2)
man vas dootaa durmat do-ay.
The mind is under the power of the demons of evil intellect and duality.
mnu BUlo bhu icqY ivkwru ] (222-3)
man bhoolo baho chitai vikaar.
The deluded mind thinks of all sorts of corruption.
iKmw ghI bRqu sIl sMqoKM ] (223-15)
khimaa gahee barat seel santokhaN.
To practice forgiveness is the true fast, good conduct and contentment.

 

[Sikhilove]

Your statement: "there is no other space outside of God, and there is no 'other'"
Then after: "Ego was created to form the illusion of the 'other'"

God is NOT evil, please refer a quote; I have asked for this and I am getting your views rather than giving the views of the higher knowledge of the Gurbani. Same goes for Sikhilove; who keeps iterating they have read it and not post one quote with the words along the line of: 'God is evil'.

Here are some of my quotes to finish my case that God is NOT evil. God does however have POWER over evil, as he is the highest authority, but he is not evil. He does not go around giving people cancers and sufferings, evil does. Hence God is NOT evil. The messenger of death and demons are quoted on several times, do you think a demon or God is more plausible to you? Or will you continue to defend something so much that you can not ever be wrong even if quotes are put in front of you. I make many mistakes every day, I have a foolish head. But I realised my mistakes and how to deal with them.

kwm k®oD moh bis pRwnI hir mUriq ibsrweI ] (219-5)
kaam kroDh moh bas paraanee har moorat bisraa-ee.
The mortal beings are held in the power of sexual desire, anger and emotional attachment; they have forgotten the Lord
Aihinis AauD GtY nhI jwnY BieE loB sMig haurw ]1] rhwau ] (220-9)
ahinis a-oDh ghatai nahee jaanai bha-i-o lobh sang ha-uraa. ||1|| rahaa-o.
Don't you know that your life is decreasing, day and night? Your life is made worthless with greed. ||1||Pause||
jo qnu qY Apno kir mwinE Aru suMdr igRh nwrI ] (220-9)
jo tan tai apno kar maani-o ar sundar garih naaree.
That body, which you believe to be your own, and your beautiful home and spouse
ien mYN kCu qyro ry nwhin dyKo soc ibcwrI ]1] (220-10)
in maiN kachh tayro ray naahan daykho soch bichaaree. ||1||
- none of these is yours to keep. See this, reflect upon it and understand
nr Acyq pwp qy fru ry ] (220-13)
nar achayt paap tay dar ray.
You people are unconscious; you should be afraid of sin.
mwns dyh bhuir nh pwvY kCU aupwau mukiq kw kru ry ] (220-15)
maanas dayh bahur nah paavai kachhoo upaa-o mukat kaa kar ray.
You shall not obtain this human body again; make the effort - try to achieve liberation!

mnu vis dUqw durmiq doie ] (222-2)
man vas dootaa durmat do-ay.
The mind is under the power of the demons of evil intellect and duality.
mnu BUlo bhu icqY ivkwru ] (222-3)
man bhoolo baho chitai vikaar.
The deluded mind thinks of all sorts of corruption.
iKmw ghI bRqu sIl sMqoKM ] (223-15)
khimaa gahee barat seel santokhaN.
To practice forgiveness is the true fast, good conduct and contentment.

Quote: Ik Oankar. We love him in the good and the bad, in dukh and sukh, light and dark, happiness and sadness. He is One- beyond duality.

if you quote, please remember to source the quote thank you

 

[Theologian.]

Reference please.

Ik Onkar -

r the monotheistic religion founded in the United States and named after an alternative transliteration of the "Ik Onkār" phrase, see Eckankar.

Ik Onkār,[1] a Sikh symbol (encoded as a single character in Unicode at U+0A74, ੴ)
Ik Onkar (Gurmukhi: ੴ, ਇੱਕ ਓਅੰਕਾਰ; Ikk Ōankār Punjabi pronunciation: [ɪkː oəŋkaɾ]) is the symbol that represents the One Supreme Reality[2] and is a central tenet of Sikh religious philosophy.[1] Ik (ਇੱਕ) means one and only one, who cannot be compared or contrasted with any other,[3] (ਓਅੰਕਾਰ) is the one universal ever flowing divine melody and existential unstuck never ending sound of God.
To simplify Ik means one, Oang the creator and Kar means the creation. So the creator and his creation are not different and He the supreme creator resides everywhere and in everything.
The sound is Oang (anhad naad) and Kar is the never ending continuation of Oang sound. This melody manifests in billions of galaxies and universes and leads to protect and preserve. Ultimately, everything gets merged back into this sound; this has happened countless times before.
It is a symbol of the unity of God in Sikhism, meaning God is One or One God,[4] and is found in all religious scriptures and places such as Gurdwaras. Derived from Punjabi, Ik Onkār is the first phrase in the Mool Mantar referring to the existence of "one constant divine melody" which is proved by Gurbani itself in:
ਓਅੰਕਾਰ ਏਕ ਧੁਨਿ ਏਕੈ।।
Oangkar one and only divine melody
ਏਕੈ ਰਾਗੁ ਅਲਾਪੈ।।
One melody is tuned
ਏਕਾ ਦੇਸੀ ਏਕੁ ਦਿਖਾਵੈ ਏਕੋ ਰਹਿਆ ਬਿਆਪੈ।। ਮਹਲਾ ੫
One is his land, one way he shows and that one is omnipresent.
ਅੰਗ ੮੮੫
Page 885 (Shree Guru Granth Sahib Ji)
ਓਅੰ ਆਦਿ ਸਰੂਪੈ।।
ਓਅੰ ਗੁਰਮੁਖਿ ਕੀੲੋ ਪਸਾਰਾ।।
[5]
It is found in the Gurmukhi script[6] and is consequently also part of the Sikh morning prayer, Japji Sahib. It is a combination of two characters, the numeral ੧, Ikk (one) and the first letter of the word Onkar (Constant taken to mean God) - which also happens to be the first letter of the Gurmukhī script - an ūṛā, ੳ, coupled with a specially adapted vowel symbol hōṛā, yielding ਓ.


Taken from Wikipedia, yes the same Wikipedia that I have criticised before in putting forward an argument, but now it is more easier and quicker to correct, which I mention now to the advantage. Hypocritical, yes I am guilty for exterior reason to this topic.

 

[Sikhilove]

Quote: Ik Oankar. We love him in the good and the bad, in dukh and sukh, light and dark, happiness and sadness. He is One- beyond duality.

if you quote, please remember to source the quote thank you

Ik Oankar- page 1, Line 1 Guru Granth Sahib Ji (this is ridiculous but its the kind of rubbish that humans waste time doing).

 

[Sikhilove]

Reference please.

Ik Onkar -

r the monotheistic religion founded in the United States and named after an alternative transliteration of the "Ik Onkār" phrase, see Eckankar.

Ik Onkār,[1] a Sikh symbol (encoded as a single character in Unicode at U+0A74, ੴ)
Ik Onkar (Gurmukhi: ੴ, ਇੱਕ ਓਅੰਕਾਰ; Ikk Ōankār Punjabi pronunciation: [ɪkː oəŋkaɾ]) is the symbol that represents the One Supreme Reality[2] and is a central tenet of Sikh religious philosophy.[1] Ik (ਇੱਕ) means one and only one, who cannot be compared or contrasted with any other,[3] (ਓਅੰਕਾਰ) is the one universal ever flowing divine melody and existential unstuck never ending sound of God.
To simplify Ik means one, Oang the creator and Kar means the creation. So the creator and his creation are not different and He the supreme creator resides everywhere and in everything.
The sound is Oang (anhad naad) and Kar is the never ending continuation of Oang sound. This melody manifests in billions of galaxies and universes and leads to protect and preserve. Ultimately, everything gets merged back into this sound; this has happened countless times before.
It is a symbol of the unity of God in Sikhism, meaning God is One or One God,[4] and is found in all religious scriptures and places such as Gurdwaras. Derived from Punjabi, Ik Onkār is the first phrase in the Mool Mantar referring to the existence of "one constant divine melody" which is proved by Gurbani itself in:
ਓਅੰਕਾਰ ਏਕ ਧੁਨਿ ਏਕੈ।।
Oangkar one and only divine melody
ਏਕੈ ਰਾਗੁ ਅਲਾਪੈ।।
One melody is tuned
ਏਕਾ ਦੇਸੀ ਏਕੁ ਦਿਖਾਵੈ ਏਕੋ ਰਹਿਆ ਬਿਆਪੈ।। ਮਹਲਾ ੫
One is his land, one way he shows and that one is omnipresent.
ਅੰਗ ੮੮੫
Page 885 (Shree Guru Granth Sahib Ji)
ਓਅੰ ਆਦਿ ਸਰੂਪੈ।।
ਓਅੰ ਗੁਰਮੁਖਿ ਕੀੲੋ ਪਸਾਰਾ।।
[5]
It is found in the Gurmukhi script[6] and is consequently also part of the Sikh morning prayer, Japji Sahib. It is a combination of two characters, the numeral ੧, Ikk (one) and the first letter of the word Onkar (Constant taken to mean God) - which also happens to be the first letter of the Gurmukhī script - an ūṛā, ੳ, coupled with a specially adapted vowel symbol hōṛā, yielding ਓ.


Taken from Wikipedia, yes the same Wikipedia that I have criticised before in putting forward an argument, but now it is more easier and quicker to correct, which I mention now to the advantage. Hypocritical, yes I am guilty for exterior reason to this topic.

So.... If the creator and creation are One, then there is no good or bad only Him.

 

[Harry]

Ik Oankar- page 1, Line 1 Guru Granth Sahib Ji (this is ridiculous but its the kind of rubbish that humans waste time doing).

your post states

Quote: Ik Oankar. We love him in the good and the bad, in dukh and sukh, light and dark, happiness and sadness. He is One- beyond duality.

It appears the whole line is the quote, not the first two words. I take the it the words after are your own, it does not seem clear to this human as I tend to use quote when something is quoted...

 

[Sikhilove]

your post states

Quote: Ik Oankar. We love him in the good and the bad, in dukh and sukh, light and dark, happiness and sadness. He is One- beyond duality.

It appears the whole line is the quote, not the first two words. I take the it the words after are your own, it does not seem clear to this human as I tend to use quote when something is quoted...

Fair enough

 

[Original]

Let's have a look at what baba Nanak says about Theologians, shall we !

...vel na paaeeyaa pandati [Japji Sahib, p 4]

Interpretation

The pandits know not the dawn of creation;
Nor, have the qazies seen the time to have made a note in the Quran,
Yogis too, couldn't have hazard a guess, even if they tried !

Can one really have knowledge of the unknown ? For if one's starting point is something of the unknown and, one's conclusion and intermediate steps are also made up of the unknown, how can the resulting consistency ever by any measurable means become knowledge ?

Nanak's nirankar cannot be known through intellectual investigations, but alone through non-physical means and that too, at the grace of waheguru [gur Prasad]. Nanak elaborates in japji sahib, thus, '..if anyone claims to know nirankar, he is as close as, North is to the north pole'.

Have fun....

Goodnight

 

[Theologian.]

Let's have a look at what baba Nanak says about Theologians, shall we !

...vel na paaeeyaa pandati [Japji Sahib, p 4]

Interpretation

The pandits know not the dawn of creation;
Nor, have the qazies seen the time to have made a note in the Quran,
Yogis too, couldn't have hazard a guess, even if they tried !

Can one really have knowledge of the unknown ? For if one's starting point is something of the unknown and, one's conclusion and intermediate steps are also made up of the unknown, how can the resulting consistency ever by any measurable means become knowledge ?

Nanak's nirankar cannot be known through intellectual investigations, but alone through non-physical means and that too, at the grace of waheguru [gur Prasad]. Nanak elaborates in japji sahib, thus, '..if anyone claims to know nirankar, he is as close as, North is to the north pole'.

Have fun....

Goodnight

So you spent time to come into this thread in order to slander me, without making a valid argument but twisting writings of a Holy book to your agenda of malice on me.

Guru Nanak was not addressing 'Theologian.'


PANDIT
pandit
ˈpandɪt/
noun
noun: pandit; plural noun: pandits
a Hindu scholar learned in Sanskrit and Hindu philosophy and religion, typically also a practising priest.
"the pandit chants the marriage mantras"

• Indian
  a wise man or teacher.
  "Pandit Madan Mohan Malaviya"
• Indian
  a talented musician (used as a respectful title or form of address).
  "Panditji played the refrain"

QAZI
qa•di
(ˈkɑ di, ˈkeɪ-)

n., pl. -dis.
a judge in a Muslim community, whose decisions are based on Islamic religious law.
[1895–1900; < Arabic qādī judge]

YOGI

yogi
ˈjəʊɡi/
noun
noun: yogi; plural noun: yogis

1. a person who is proficient in yoga

I am sorry if I have stirred something within you, if you address me straight then I will correct and humble myself if I am proven to be wrong in any way towards you as a personal manner, as originally addressed.

 

[Harry]

So you spent time to come into this thread in order to slander me, without making a valid argument but twisting writings of a Holy book to your agenda of malice on me.

Guru Nanak was not addressing 'Theologian.'


PANDIT
pandit
ˈpandɪt/
noun
noun: pandit; plural noun: pandits
a Hindu scholar learned in Sanskrit and Hindu philosophy and religion, typically also a practising priest.
"the pandit chants the marriage mantras"

• Indian
  a wise man or teacher.
  "Pandit Madan Mohan Malaviya"
• Indian
  a talented musician (used as a respectful title or form of address).
  "Panditji played the refrain"

QAZI
qa•di
(ˈkɑ di, ˈkeɪ-)

n., pl. -dis.
a judge in a Muslim community, whose decisions are based on Islamic religious law.
[1895–1900; < Arabic qādī judge]

YOGI

yogi
ˈjəʊɡi/
noun
noun: yogi; plural noun: yogis

1. a person who is proficient in yoga

I am sorry if I have stirred something within you, if you address me straight then I will correct and humble myself if I am proven to be wrong in any way towards you as a personal manner, as originally addressed.

There is no slander here, theology is the study of religion in a pragmatic and logical fashion, something I am all for personally, Originalji feels that knowledge is given by the grace of god, not study, and his comments apply to theologians rather than yourself personally.

 

[Theologian.]

jb qy swDU sMgiq pwey ] gur Bytq hau geI blwey ] (101-15)
jab tay saaDhoo sangat paa-ay. gur bhaytat ha-o ga-ee balaa-ay.
Since I found the Company of the Holy and met the Guru, the demon of pride has departed.
swis swis hir gwvY nwnku siqgur Fwik lIAw myrw pVdw jIau ]4]17]24] (101-15)
saas saas har gaavai naanak satgur dhaak lee-aa mayraa parh-daa jee-o. ||4||17||24||
With each and every breath, Nanak sings the Lord's Praises. The True Guru has covered my sins. ||4||17||24||

kIqw ijso hovY pwpW mlo DovY so ismrhu prDwnu hy ]2] (1008-2)
keetaa jiso hovai paapaaN malo Dhovai so simrahu parDhaan hay. ||2||
His actions alone come to pass; He washes off the filth of sins. Meditate in remembrance on that Supreme Lord. ||2||

jau pY hm n pwp krMqw Ahy Anµqw ] (93-16)
ja-o pai ham na paap karantaa ahay anantaa.
If I did not commit any sins, O Infinite Lord,
piqq pwvn nwmu kYsy huMqw ]1] rhwau ] (93-16)
patit paavan naam kaisay huntaa. ||1|| rahaa-o.
how would You have acquired the name, 'Redeemer of sinners'? ||1||Pause||

supRsMn Bey kysvw sy jn hir gux gwih ]4] (203-10)
suparsan bha-ay kaysvaa say jan har gun gaahi. ||4||
Those humble beings, with whom the beautifully-haired Lord is thoroughly pleased, sing the Glorious Praises of the Lord. ||4||




EXIT

 

[sukhsingh]

satnaam means in my dictionary it is true there is God

Or 'Truth Is!' ?

 

[sukhsingh]

I reckon I have lived more than most have in terms of possibilities in our lives, but its something more to be ashamed of.

As they say knowledge is power

Knowledge is power.. people 'feel empowered' and 'are empowered' by having knowledge. However the two are separate yet interlinked.

people 'feel empowered' - Ignorance reigns over us all, self righteousness absolutism blossoms, irrationality creeps through the door and prejudice thrives.
We are all ignorant especially when we think our knowledge is right above others for reasons without giving consideration. irrational, the belief that we have a exclusive insight to the truth, it is the most common act of self delusion.
becoming dogamtic/aboltist means you have arrived. its a pretty big assuption.


'are empowered' - the access to knowledge, the control of knowledge, the access to knowledge has been of tool of those in power has been tool since time immemorial. eclusive access to knowledge gives you a upper hand. in sikhi we are taught to be humble, remind yourself that you may have got it wrong. test it challenge, truth will out, feel brave to search.but moreover the truth is and knowledge should never be exclusive, access to education, and henceforth knowledge is human right, a universal right.

Acces to knowledge creates a level playing field and denying access to it is a exploitation of power.

In sikhi the propogation of gurmukhi was a as much a rejection and challenge against the elitism, exclusivity of brahmanism. where only brahims were able to read the vedas. The existential universal truths expressed by bani are those which all humans of which ever race creed, caste etc should have access to. If a individual has a exclusive insight and doesn't have the time to share it but rather just say i know it and thats enough is no better than the sadhu living in a cave gifted with knowledge, propably through access privileges who doesn't engage with the world. Michel foucault has best described how structurally 'knowledge is power' is a double edged sword.

im not sure in your expression of the term is something to celebrate...

 

[Sikhilove]

Knowledge is power.. people 'feel empowered' and 'are empowered' by having knowledge. However the two are separate yet interlinked.

people 'feel empowered' - Ignorance reigns over us all, self righteousness absolutism blossoms, irrationality creeps through the door and prejudice thrives.
We are all ignorant especially when we think our knowledge is right above others for reasons without giving consideration. irrational, the belief that we have a exclusive insight to the truth, it is the most common act of self delusion.
becoming dogamtic/aboltist means you have arrived. its a pretty big assuption.


'are empowered' - the access to knowledge, the control of knowledge, the access to knowledge has been of tool of those in power has been tool since time immemorial. eclusive access to knowledge gives you a upper hand. in sikhi we are taught to be humble, remind yourself that you may have got it wrong. test it challenge, truth will out, feel brave to search.but moreover the truth is and knowledge should never be exclusive, access to education, and henceforth knowledge is human right, a universal right.

Acces to knowledge creates a level playing field and denying access to it is a exploitation of power.

In sikhi the propogation of gurmukhi was a as much a rejection and challenge against the elitism, exclusivity of brahmanism. where only brahims were able to read the vedas. The existential universal truths expressed by bani are those which all humans of which ever race creed, caste etc should have access to. If a individual has a exclusive insight and doesn't have the time to share it but rather just say i know it and thats enough is no better than the sadhu living in a cave gifted with knowledge, propably through access privileges who doesn't engage with the world. Michel foucault has best described how structurally 'knowledge is power' is a double edged sword.

im not sure in your expression of the term is something to celebrate...

There's worldly knowledge and there's divine knowledge.

Divine knowledge is beyond worldly logic. This is a khel, a huge illusion.

 

[Harry]

Divine knowledge is beyond logic.

and some would say impossible for anyone to know, and therefore a moot point.

Who would you say is an example of someone who has divine knowledge?

 

[Sikhilove]

and some would say impossible for anyone to know, and therefore a moot point.

Who would you say is an example of someone who has divine knowledge?

Guru Nanak......

 

[sukhsingh]

There's worldly knowledge and there's divine knowledge.

Divine knowledge is beyond worldly logic. This is a khel, a huge illusion.

Guru Nanak......

For you to be able to say that it would also require you to have divine knowledge