Correct Pronunciation Of Waheguru

[onspjo]

Hpannu ji,
Tuhadi post baad wich dekhi. Since all the words use vowels in the end with matra, the sound of matra is clearly there(ਮਾਇ, ਸੋਇ, ਜੀਉ, ਦੁਇ, ਤਉ, ਕਾਇ, ਕਉ, ਲੁਡਾਇ, ਮਾਰਉ, ਗਵਾਇ, ਥਾਇ).

How do you use punjabi letters (this is off the topic---sorry).

Findingmyway Ji, tusi kamal kita a, bahut bahut dhanwaad, for putting the book here.

Bhul chuk maaf karni--in my previous post too.

 

[hpannu]

Thanks to all for sharing their knowledge and views.
So two books can be referred for correct pronunciation:

"GURBANI DI BHASHA TE VYAKARAN" by Dr. Harkirat Singh jee Gurmukhi linguistics and Gurbani Bhasha scholars from Punjabi university----------as suggested by 'SPNadmin'

"Gurbani Viakaran" by Prof Sahib Singh ----------as suggested by 'Gyani Jarnail Singh'

I totally agree that the use of sihari or ounkarh changes the meaning of the base word.

I want to believe that it has to be pronounced too. Because if you are reading gurbani, you can see the word and understand the meaning but if you are only hearing it and the sihari/ounkar before last letter is not pronounced, how would the listener understand the correct meaning?
So, I believe, it has to be pronounced.

The correct pronunciation is very important. I heard a story where a person reading gurbani in front of Guru Gobind Singh Sahibji got a punishment for not pronouncing the word correctly.

The word Ki(K with sihari) is pronounced as ki(k with short i). There is no other pronunciation to it. So now one has to look at the grammatical rules( at the time of writing) for words with single letter or words with many letters.

Like many commented that, it is subtle. Not a very long trailing sound at the end of it but still there to clearly differentiate between words with or without sihari/ounkarh.

THerefore, from all the posts, I'd like to believe that Waheguru sound is NOT Wah-Long a- Guru sound. If this was the case, the h should have lav not sihari.
But short i sound. That the sihari stands for.

Dear Onspjo Ji -

First of all in ਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂ ਿ is in the middle so you have to sound it. ਿ ਅਤੇ ੇ ਦਾ sound in this case is similar to each other ਿ ਦਾ sound a little shorter than ੇ not a long a but a shorter a ਹੋਵੇਗਾ । ਜਦ ਿ ਸ਼ਬਦ ਦੇ ਸ਼ੁਰੂ ਵਿਚ ਲਗੀ ਹੁੰਦੀ ਹੈ like ਵਿਚ then the sound is like vich ਛੋਟੀ e or i ਕਹਿ ਲਵੋ । i hope i am not confusing you ....... you can pass me your phone # i can give you a call. send it to me in the personal message.

I want to believe that it has to be pronounced too. Because if you  are reading gurbani, you can see the word and understand the meaning  but if you are only hearing it and the sihari/ounkar before last letter  is not pronounced, how would the listener understand the correct  meaning?
 So, I believe, it has to be pronounced.

Don't confuse yourself - when there is a sihari ਿ or onkar ੁ at the end of ਸ਼ਬਦ it is not pronounced and is there for grammar reasons ...... please read earlier posts to clarify yourself.

For your other question - I write ਪੰਜਾਬੀ using UNICODE fonts. Please use Punjabi UNICODE fonts.

 

[Ambarsaria]

I am no phonetics or linguist expert but from my knowledge this is how I see the pronunciation.

• Start with the three syllables as below
  • waah - hicK - guru
  • Say it separately
  • Now say it jointly
  • Now drop the "ck" sound in the middle syllable
• This becomes for me ਵਾਿਹਗੁਰੂ

By the way, Professor Sahib Singh ji in Gurbani Darpan translate ਵਾਿਹਗੁਰੂ, ਵਾਹਗੁਰੂ as"Hay Guru" or english "Hello Guru" as an address. This contrasts with "wah - Hay meaning you are wonderful". Quite significant distinction as one may notice that the repetition of "hay Guru" versus "wah-hay-guru" is quiet different.


Sat Sri Akal.

 

[Gyani Jarnail Singh]

Findingmyway Ji,
That book on SCribd..looks like it..but it failed to load on my computer..so i cnat really say for sure. Anyway I will try to source it on the net as well. Thanks

 

[Gyani Jarnail Singh]

Ambarsariah Ji,
you wrote...>>>>>>>>>
By the way, Professor Sahib Singh ji in Gurbani Darpan translate ਵਾਿਹਗੁਰੂ, ਵਾਹਗੁਰੂ as"Hay Guru" or english "Hello Guru" as an address. This contrasts with "wah - Hay meaning you are wonderful". Quite significant distinction as one may notice that the repetition of "hay Guru" versus "wah-hay-guru" is quiet different.>>>>>>>>>>>

Exactly thats WHY many question how this word could be "Name" of the Creator. This word is used SOLELY by the Bhatts and in Bani written specifically addressed to the Five Gurus....but even more specifically to Guru Ramdass Ji and Guru Arjun ji as Partakh Har..the GURU they can see in front of their eyes. All these Bhatts are saying is they are "exclaiming..WAH Guru..Wonderful GURU as praise for the GURU they can see before them.

1. I REJECT this for two reasons. First It DOESNT MATTER who used the Word "Waheguru"....whether its one / or all the Sikh GURUS..or anyone else...or when ?? Suffice it that it NOW EXISTS in the GURU.( SGGS)..and is used for the GURU and in Gurmatt Guru, satgur and Waheguru, Creator Akal Purakh are ONE and the same. Our GURU is SHABAD..and Akal Purakh is Shabad. To try and separate/divide the various contributors of the SGGS on whatever grounds is blasphemy and ought to be condemned outright as an attempt to weaken sikhs and cause our downfall. This must be resisted at all costs.No one must dare to attack the Bhagat Banis, Bhatt swaiyahs, farid Jis bani etc etc as any lesser than Gurbani penned by the Sikh gurus...for us its the COLLECTIVE COMPOSITION in the SGGS that is the GURU. Period. We BOW to the Complete GURU.

2. The Guru Khlasa Panth has reached a concesnus that this is the Name of The Creator for Sikhs..and this is the word we are asked to recite at time of Khandey batte dee Pahul. The HUKM of the Panj is supreme.

This is removed from the pronounciation topic..but i thought to just pause on it as it may come up..sooner or later...better to be prepared just in case. Apologies for the digression.animatedkhanda1

 

[findingmyway]

Findingmyway Ji,
That book on SCribd..looks like it..but it failed to load on my computer..so i cnat really say for sure. Anyway I will try to source it on the net as well. Thanks

Gyani ji,
If you click on the link at the top of the scribd window it should take you directly to the book link in a new tab. Alternatively hove your mouse over it and right click :happykaur:
Jasleen

 

[Gyani Jarnail Singh]

Jasleen Ji, Thanks. Yes this is the book although this looks like an older copy. The latest 2001 edition is printed using computerised fonts and very nice to read. Computerised means cna use Bold italics etc for emphasis hence easier to comprehend.

Prof sahib Singh did this monumental work in the ealry 1930s...and then based his darpan on this foundation. Thast why the darpan is logical and carries the true spirit of Gurbani most of the time. ( I say most of the time because in some instances, the Vedic environment/saffron enviornment that any scholar born and bred in Punjab will be..even Prof sahib Singh fails to get the Gurbani Essence and goes in the wrong direction...BUT not many....the earlier teekas like the Faridkotee Teeka is too heavily vedic and saffronised..so much so that it seems that the SGGS is just another Ved..and the Sikh gurus had nothing new and Guur nanak ji just expanded on the OM to make EK oankaar !!)

 

[Ambarsaria]

Jasleen Ji, Thanks. Yes this is the book although this looks like an older copy. The latest 2001 edition is printed using computerised fonts and very nice to read. Computerised means cna use Bold italics etc for emphasis hence easier to comprehend.

Prof sahib Singh did this monumental work in the ealry 1930s...and then based his darpan on this foundation. Thast why the darpan is logical and carries the true spirit of Gurbani most of the time. ( I say most of the time because in some instances, the Vedic environment/saffron enviornment that any scholar born and bred in Punjab will be..even Prof sahib Singh fails to get the Gurbani Essence and goes in the wrong direction...BUT not many....the earlier teekas like the Faridkotee Teeka is too heavily vedic and saffronised..so much so that it seems that the Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji is just another Ved..and the Sikh gurus had nothing new and Guru nanak ji just expanded on the OM to make EK oankaar !!)

Gyani Jarnail Singh ji I really appreciate some of the backgrounders and tid bits you drop in your posts.

I grew up at Khalsa College Amritsar in the era just later part of the 50s and mid 60s and I bet you I saw Professor Sahib Singh ji once in awhile during his visits after his retirement from there. I clearly remember Professor Waryam Singh ji's name from that time.

I have been reading parts of his Gurbani Darpan more or less as result of my participation and encouragement/positive dialog here at SPN.

My respects to you, Aman Singh ji and spnadmin ji for great site and constructive at times direct but truth and sikhism centric discourses.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jjc1x4V4y6c&feature=player_detailpage

Sat Sri Akal.

 

[spnadmin]

Ambarsaria ji

Aman Singh is the brains behind this operation. I am here gur prasaad.

 

[Gyani Jarnail Singh]

Heres a link about Prof sahib Singh..and the history is written by his good friend Dalip Singh of USA. Scroll down and be AMAZED at How he began the discovery of GURBANI GRAMMAR.......and you will see the similarity between him and How NEWTON discovered the Principle of Gravity by watching an apple fall !!
Millions of people before Newton saw apples fall....
Thousands of Readers before Sahib Singh participated in Continous readings of the SGGS...BUT then NEWTON..and Sahib Singh came along.....and we get the Laws of Gravity...and Gurbani Grammar !!

Enjoy...
http://www.sikhiwiki.org/index.php/Professor_Sahib_Singh

 

[Ambarsaria]

Gyani Jarnail Singh ji yes I was reading through that earlier today. Wonderful human being, humble, thankful, respectful of Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji while identifying his own limitations in the monumental tasks he completed.

How many such people are needed to right the ship of Sikhism today?

May Sikhism see better days.

Sat Sri Akal.

PS: I think spnadmin ji and Aman Singh ji are related. One likes coffee the other likes tea. :singhsippingcoffee::angryadminsingh:

 

[Gyani Jarnail Singh]

Ambarsariah ji..
You have brought many smiles.... we at SPN are one big family and we laugh and we play and we are serious...as in Gurbani..hasendiah khendiahn..or nachan kuddna man ka chao..

And I love Hot Chocolate (Bounavita in Punjab )...but MILO/Ovaltine in Malaysia...
a little bit of coffee in the mornings...and a little bit of chah at chah time !!

But my ALL time favourite is LASSI...can down a baltee anytime....anywhere..anyhow !!

Thanks for all the kind words and wishes..stay with us at SPN..and enjoy the Journey.
Jarnail Singh:happykaur:cheerleaderwelcomemunda:blueturban::grinningkaur::happysingh:

 

[onspjo]

Hpannuji,
I think I got what you are saying:
For sihari and ounkarh--
When anywhere else other than end(like beginning or middle), pronounce it.
When in the end, do not pronounce it.
When in the end with vowels(like irhi, urha, erha etc.), pronounce it.

Since Waheguru is one word, the sihari with H should be pronounced.

Thanks all for participating and it has helped, and enriched many of us with all the book references and video(about Prof. Darshan Singhji- haven't checked it yet but sure will).

Does this site and discussions qualify as SANGAT?

 

[spnadmin]

Thanks ji

Does this site and discussions qualify as SANGAT?

For many SPN members it does and it is! For that we are grateful to be of service.

 

[Gyani Jarnail Singh]

YES DEFINITELY WE ARE SANGAT. Sangat is defined as Company of the learned...learners...fellow seekers...and we are all that and more.
Bhagat Kabir Ji advises...IF you meet a SAKAT..run away as fast as you can...because a SAKAT is not likely to be converted by YOU..BUT YOU can fall due to him...
Guur Nanak Ji advises...When you meet a learned person..a fellow seeker..a devotee...kichh sunneah...kicchh kaheah..Nanaka..ASK questions..and LISTEN !!
GURMATT is Based on the Foundation of ASKING QUESTIONS....and then LISTENING TO THE ANSWERS. Guru Angad Ji declares..That IF you do BOTH ( ask and REFUSE to Listen ) then YOU ARE SUNK !! SWAAL JWAAB DOHEHN KAREH..muddhon khutthah jayeh... a person who questions and answers himself...is Muddhon khutthah jayeh means LOST even before he begins the journey !!

WELCOME One and ALL !!! CYBER SANGAT !! :singhsippingcoffee:rangesingh::redturban::redturban::happysingh:cheerleader

 

[CaramelChocolate]

Very interesting, especially as over the past few days I have begun learning punjabi. The book says that when the small
Sihari is added on to the end of the word it denotes a level of respect, but does not affect the pronunciation. Take the example of sat (true) and sat (extract), both different spellings, but sound the same with different meanings.

Vaah and guru are two separate words, and the siharee on waah is one of respect, So this begs the question do we pronounce this sound of respect when it is added to guru to create a new word?

Just some thoughts. My knowledge on south Asian language is very limited. This is an interesting issue but it is a purely lingusitic one. God has many names and yet he has none, I believe that the love and devotion behind doing simran is the most important, not the method or pronounciation.

Wjkk wjkf

 

[Khalistani_lion]

My understanding is the sihari is pronounced



http://gurmatbibek.com/forum/read.php?3,2634,2634

www.Gursevak.com for correct pronunciation.

 

[prakash.s.bagga]

I would agree with SPNADMIN ji for takng into consideration of the Vowels related to Sihai and Aukad Matra with Gurbanee words.
In fact we enter into gross error by avoiding the pronunciation of words with these matras.We infact have eliminated the consideration of these matras altogether.
The application of these matras is very crucial in getting overall understanding of Gurbanee.
I dont understand who and when the idea of avoiding the pronunciation of these two matras was introduced and accepted.Even ourmost learned scholars have accepted the norms of avoiding the pronunciation of words with sihai and Aukad matras.
There is need to relook into the significance of matras of Aukad and Sihari in directing the meanings to the Gurbanee words.Once we can do this we are likel;y to get more clear understanding of meanings of Gurbanee and there will be very little deviation in overall interpretation of Gurbanee.
I have always been mentioning and writing the words with these matras although there has always been great resistance in considering this.
I think now is a time we should come clear in understanding the role of these matras.
Prakash.S.Bagga

 

[prakash.s.bagga]

First of all, Guru Gobind Singh Sahibji de gurpurab di bahut bahut wadhai howe.

Secondly, Please help me on this:
What is the correct pronunciation of the word: Waheguru.

In Gurmukhi, there is sihari(i) to the letter h in the word waheguru. Do we pronounce it as WAAH-E-GURU or WAAH-GURU without the long A sound.

For example: In the word AAD, there is sihari to the letter d, but we don't pronounce it as AAD-E. Similarly, In Sat Shri Akal, There is Sihari to the letter t, and we say it SAT not SAT-E.

My thinking is that there is a pause and stress to the letter where there is Sihari to the letter and not the E(long a) sound.

Thanks.

You can look at this Quote also
ਸੇਵਕ ਕੈ ਭਰਪੂਰ ਜੁਗੁ ਜੁਗੁ ਵਾਹਗੁਰੂ ਤੇਰਾ ਸਭੁ ਸਦਕਾ ॥ ਨਿਰੰਕਾਰੁ ਪ੍ਰਭੁ ਸਦਾ ਸਲਾਮਤਿ ਕਹਿ ਨ ਸਕੈ ਕੋਊ ਤੂ ਕਦ ਕਾ ॥ ਬ੍ਰਹਮਾ ਬਿਸਨੁ ਸਿਰੇ ਤੈ ਅਗਨਤ ਤਿਨ ਕਉ ਮੋਹੁ ਭਯਾ ਮਨ ਮਦ ਕਾ ॥ {ਪੰਨਾ 1403

There is no Sihari or Aukad with the word WAH................................

Although your point of Pause or stress is equally valid for the matra of Sihari but besides this the application of Sihari also changes the meaning of the respective word.This is equally important .

Well ,it should be obvious that pronunciation of the word WAH(i) as vowel of E is grammatically incorrect.
Prakash.S.Bagga

 

[prakash.s.bagga]

Ambarsariah Ji,
you wrote...>>>>>>>>>
By the way, Professor Sahib Singh ji in Gurbani Darpan translate ਵਾਿਹਗੁਰੂ, ਵਾਹਗੁਰੂ as"Hay Guru" or english "Hello Guru" as an address. This contrasts with "wah - Hay meaning you are wonderful". Quite significant distinction as one may notice that the repetition of "hay Guru" versus "wah-hay-guru" is quiet different.>>>>>>>>>>>

Exactly thats WHY many question how this word could be "Name" of the Creator. This word is used SOLELY by the Bhatts and in Bani written specifically addressed to the Five Gurus....but even more specifically to Guru Ramdass Ji and Guru Arjun ji as Partakh Har..the GURU they can see in front of their eyes. All these Bhatts are saying is they are "exclaiming..WAH Guru..Wonderful GURU as praise for the GURU they can see before them.

1. I REJECT this for two reasons. First It DOESNT MATTER who used the Word "Waheguru"....whether its one / or all the Sikh GURUS..or anyone else...or when ?? Suffice it that it NOW EXISTS in the GURU.( Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji)..and is used for the GURU and in Gurmatt Guru, satgur and Waheguru, Creator Akal Purakh are ONE and the same. Our GURU is SHABAD..and Akal Purakh is Shabad. To try and separate/divide the various contributors of the Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji on whatever grounds is blasphemy and ought to be condemned outright as an attempt to weaken sikhs and cause our downfall. This must be resisted at all costs.No one must dare to attack the Bhagat Banis, Bhatt swaiyahs, farid Jis bani etc etc as any lesser than Gurbani penned by the Sikh gurus...for us its the COLLECTIVE COMPOSITION in the Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji that is the GURU. Period. We BOW to the Complete GURU.

2. The Guru Khlasa Panth has reached a concesnus that this is the Name of The Creator for Sikhs..and this is the word we are asked to recite at time of Khandey batte dee Pahul. The HUKM of the Panj is supreme.

This is removed from the pronounciation topic..but i thought to just pause on it as it may come up..sooner or later...better to be prepared just in case. Apologies for the digression.animatedkhanda1

What GuRu Gobind Singh Ji gave to Khalsa Panth to recite at the time of Khande Ki Pahul that is SABADu or ,NAME(NAAu) or NAAMu. It is very important to understand this.
As per my understanding Our GuRu Gobind Singh ji Gave SABADu
This SABADu is of GuR (what we should know as CREATOR)
Prakash.S.Bagga