Correct Pronunciation Of Waheguru

prakash.s.bagga · May 19, 2012

Ambarsaria said:
Great idea brother.

Put your money where your mouth is. Do one complete shabad example of your own understanding with the above guidance you have given!

Otherwise it is not worth the keystrokes that you typed for the message. cheerleader

Sat Sri Akal.

PS: While you are at it do the phonetics with all the right accents too lol. Otherwise it is all empty word meant to distract and put down everyone's efforts as inadequate or not perfect enough.

Let me know if any of the above is unclear.

From where comes the great idea of Money? The same may be for you.
It may be possible for you to keep the money in mouth but I am unable to do that.
.

Prakash.s.bagga

prakash.s.bagga · May 19, 2012

Ambarsaria said:
Prakash.S.Bagga ji let us work within our area of knowledge and know how. Your use of Capitals and lower case as a way to create phonetics from Punjabi to English is junk. Phonetics between Languages is not that simple or always possible. I have no expertise in Phonetics through Academic training and I have to suppose you have none. Rest is just empty talk and empty claims. I never comment on Phonetics but I generally commend Dr. Thind's effort. It is not perfect but way better tha your upper or lower case approach which is a non-starter but you keep dwelling on it.

Sat Sri Akal.

Are you seriously prepared to do that I doubt.
I need not do. some scholars have already done this but you are going to reject as usual.
Prakash.s.Bagga

Ishna · May 19, 2012

For clarity:

Idiom Definitions for 'Put your money where your mouth is'

If someone puts their money where their mouth is, they back up their words with action.

Khalistani_lion · May 19, 2012

Gyani Jarnail Singh said:
Would any one suggest that the CAPITAL Letter to signify Proper Noun be scrapped ?? That its pointless and all should just write in small letters (Btw ALL CAPITALS is taken to mean SHOUTING..which is a NEW phenomenon in the world of English as a modern Internet language..as earlier ALL CAPITALS didnt mean shouting but just EMPHASIS !!

NO one least of all prof Sahib Singh ji is saying..SCRAP ALL LAGAN matras..what a ridiculous suggestion... What we are simply saying is that CERTAIN Aunkadds and Siharees ( ONLY) are being used as Capital letters are used in English. No one si remotel;y suggesting that ALL lagan matras all vowels etc should be scrapped..how ridiculous is that.

This Lagna Matran DEBATE is actually a DEEP SEATED CONSPIRACY by the RSS Hindutva trained Brigaed....a certain Tamil professor was given a HUGE GRANT of a few Kror rupees to do essentially the JOB of MUTILATING Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji by PHYSICALLY CUTTING OUT ALL lagaan matrans...only by a fortunate accident he was EXPOSED and sacked from this Project. He had used a Sharp Blade to cut out ALL siharees, biharees, aunkadds, dulaknads, dulavan lavan kanas etc etc as IRRELEVANT !!.

Having FAILED miserably in that First attempt..NOW the SECOND LINE of attack is to keep this so called Gur-Gur(u)..sat(i)gur(u) ..Naam and Naam(u) Sabad and Sabad(u)..etc etc..charade up at all costs..so the rss agents keep labouring at it hoping to CONFUSE and SIDE TRACK us all.

Dass is no scholar and has written all i know already..just go back and read it. I have NOTHING MORE to add to this totally irrelevant discussion. I beleive Ambarsariah veer has also done his best to untangle this uljhee tanni..but peoples keep placing knots or repeating knots over and over.. Thank You.

2. Bhai Gurdass ji uses a lot of METAPHOR...we have to read between the lines...in another palce he writes.. The PHALL of teaching one Shabad to a person is equivalent to Daan of FIVE mandirs of GOLD. Not everyone has the RESOURCES to DAAN Five mandirs of Gold...nay not even half a mandir...BUT even nimanney people like me have taught the entire Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji to HUNDREDS...so How many GOLD Mandirs have I donated ??...looking at a few THOUSAND Shabds in Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji ?? I hardly pay my monthly DASWANDH and its certainly not even 10 grammes of GOLD.....BUT Bhai Gurdass says different !!!

Gyani Jarnail Singh said:
Would any one suggest that the CAPITAL Letter to signify Proper Noun be scrapped ?? EMPHASIS !!

No, nobody would suggest that. Then, Why would someone suggest to not Pronounce Unkar Sihari to last Akhar that signify Noun or Verb (as you equating Capital Letters to Aunkar Sihari)?

Gyani Jarnail Singh said:
NO one least of all prof Sahib Singh ji is saying..SCRAP ALL LAGAN matras..what a ridiculous suggestion... What we are simply saying is that CERTAIN Aunkadds and Siharees ( ONLY) are being used as Capital letters are used in English.

Then these Capital Letters (aunkar Sihari to last letter as you saying in above line) should be pronounced as we pronounce them in English.
Not ALL but Aunkar Sihari to Last AKhar? This is what your previous post indicates:

Gyani Jarnail Singh said:
A very long time ago...when a Telegraph was the only way to convey a message..every GRAMATICAL INDACATOR was SPELT OUT. Example..I still have the Telegraph that I received form the Uni informing me about my admission. It reads..

Dear Mister Jarnail COMMA Your admission approved STOP Please arrange to make necessary payment STOP Also arrange to bring along the following personal items - bedding COMMA bedspread COMMA comforter COMMA as these are not provided in the hostel STOP Please note that attendance at University is required to pay all fees et cetera STOP

Today that same message would be..Dear Mr. jarnail, Your admission approved.

1. The WORDS COMMA, STOP in the 1960's Telegraphic Message are NOT to be "PRONOUNCED"..they are Grammar Markers and Today we DONT NEED to write them out in FULL becasue we cna just use the ,.,.,. etc. mr. dr. .

Here again you are comparing Apples with Oranges. Giani Ji English language is changing like every other language does, Punjabi language is changing too. Shakespearean English language had different pronunciation than today’s language. But, it does not mean that they change Shakespearean language, they pronounce it exactly it was being spoken at Shakespearean time.

Gyani Jarnail Singh said:
This Lagna Matran DEBATE is actually a DEEP SEATED CONSPIRACY by the RSS Hindutva trained Brigaed....a certain Tamil professor was given a HUGE GRANT of a few Kror rupees to do essentially the JOB of MUTILATING Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji by PHYSICALLY CUTTING OUT ALL lagaan matrans...only by a fortunate accident he was EXPOSED and sacked from this Project. He had used a Sharp Blade to cut out ALL siharees, biharees, aunkadds, dulaknads, dulavan lavan kanas etc etc as IRRELEVANT !!.

Instead of stepping out of the box, let’s blame it on RSS.
It’s well said in this book:
If you start to think the problem is "out there," stop yourself. That thought is the problem. (- 7 Habits of Most Effective People)

Gyani Jarnail Singh said:
Having FAILED miserably in that First attempt..NOW the SECOND LINE of attack is to keep this so called Gur-Gur(u)..sat(i)gur(u) ..Naam and Naam(u) Sabad and Sabad(u)..etc etc..charade up at all costs..so the rss agents keep labouring at it hoping to CONFUSE and SIDE TRACK us all.

My computer is freezing. RSS failed to harm me from their website, NOW the SECOND LINE of Attack is sending viruses to my computer. peacesign

Gyani Jarnail Singh said:
Dass is no scholar and has written all i know already..just go back and read it. I have NOTHING MORE to add to this totally irrelevant discussion. I beleive Ambarsariah veer has also done his best to untangle this uljhee tanni..but peoples keep placing knots or repeating knots over and over.. Thank You.

Dass’s benti is if we are not sure about something, we shouldn’t discourage others from going in right direction. I just saw this pronunciation topic few days ago and read you posts on bigging up Prof. Sahib Singh and dissing other Gursikhs. Now, you will say what a rediculous comment, let me cite it:

Gyani Jarnail Singh said:
Now to the PRONOUNCERS...a long time ago..BEFORE Prof Sahib Singhs book on Gurbani Grammar came along and .."DEFLATED THEIR TYRES"...in a manner of speaking....these PRONOUNCING LOBBY ( same saadh lobby that is pro DG, pro Bikrimi Calendar, pro everything backward and anti SGPC, Akal takhat, Pad chhed birs, Mool Mnatar up to Gurparsaad etc etc - that is Before the 1980's - after the Wipe out of the Kharrkoos and proliferation of he derawaad and sadhs..the sgpc takhats etc are all under their control..so now they dont oppose those...just DONT FOLLOW the SRM etc which they are waiting to RUBBISH slowly as they ahve managed to do with the Nankshahi Calendar.)...........Sorry to digress..long Ago..these Pronouncers used to take LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOng breaths on all siharees and aunkarrs ...they would pronounce the SHAH(u) as SHAHOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!
Then Prof sahib Singh ji cmae along...discovered the UNIQUE RULES used in GURBANI..debunked all the UTTERLY MEANINGLES...shahoooooooooooooos.....and published his Darpan.....the saadhs had NO ANSWER except to RETREAT..but not GIVE UP. So they "pronounce"...the siharees and aunkarrs..but with soft stance....

ਸਾਰੇ ਗੁਰਸਿੱਖਾਂ ਨੂੰ ਇੱਕੋ ਪੱਲੜੇ ਵਿੱਚ ਨਹੀਂ ਤੋਲੀਦਾ ਜੀ।

Giani Ji, you are saying “Deflated their tyres”, but this is what Bhai Gurdas Sahib Ji says about Saadhs:

ਕਿਤੜੇ ਸਾਧ ਵਖਾਣੀਅਨਿ ਸਾਧਸੰਗਤਿ ਵਿਚਿ ਪਰਉਪਕਾਰੀ।
Many sadhus are there who move in the holy congregation and are benevolent.

ਕੇਤੜਿਆ ਲਖ ਸੰਤ ਜਨ ਕੇਤੜਿਆ ਨਿਜ ਭਗਤਿ ਭੰਡਾਰੀ।
Millions of saints are there who continuously go on filling the coffers of their devotion.

ਕੇਤੜਿਆ ਜੀਵਨ ਮੁਕਤਿ ਬ੍ਰਹਮ ਗਿਆਨੀ ਬ੍ਰਹਮ ਵੀਚਾਰੀ।
Many are liberated in life; they have knowledge of Brahm and meditate upon Brahm.

ਕੇਤੜਿਆ ਸਮਦਰਸੀਆ ਕੇਤੜਿਆ ਨਿਰਮਲ ਨਿਰੰਕਾਰੀ।
Many are egalitarians and many more are spotless, clean and followers of the formless Lord.

ਕਿਤੜੇ ਲਖ ਬਿਬੇਕੀਆ ਕਿਤੜੇ ਦੇਹ ਬਿਦੇਹ ਅਕਾਰੀ।
Many are there with analytical wisdom; many are body less though they have bodies i.e. they are above the desires of body.

ਭਾਇ ਭਗਤਿ ਭੈ ਵਰਤਣਾ ਸਹਜ ਸਮਾਧਿ ਬੈਰਾਗ ਸਵਾਰੀ।
They conduct themselves in loving devotion and make equipoise and detachment their vehicle to move around.

ਗੁਰਮੁਖਿ ਸੁਖ ਫਲ ਗਰਬੁ ਨਿਵਾਰੀ ॥੧੪॥
Erasing ego from the self, gurmukhs obtain the fruits of the supreme delight.

Gyani Jarnail Singh said:
Also Passive Actiev Voice..and pronouns adjectives etc etc..are all parts of grammar and all are used in Gurbani. Only a well versed linguist.grammatist can be fluent in this.Its not an easy task...especially as Paath was taught by ROTE in most Taksals and religious schools...one just repeats after the mahapurash who spent his life repeating after the earlier mahapurash. ...now a days even that is lacking...as one who has just completed one paath is deputed to begin teaching others..and so on..

Yea Giani Ji, whole Sikh religion was doing Ardaasan to Guru Sahib Ji to send Prof. Sahib Singh to this earth to teach them Passive Active...all parts of Grammar. Even, Guru Sahib Ji didn’t know about Grammar that’s why they didn’t teach it to Sikhs. Thanks God, Prof. Sahib Singh Ji was born! All Talsaals and Mahanpursh...repeating after repeating earlier mahapursh just wasted their lives in repeating only. Thanks, Prof. Sahib Singh Ji!!

Gyani Jarnail Singh said:
2. Bhai Gurdass ji uses a lot of METAPHOR...we have to read between the lines...in another palce he writes.. The PHALL of teaching one Shabad to a person is equivalent to Daan of FIVE mandirs of GOLD. Not everyone has the RESOURCES to DAAN Five mandirs of Gold...nay not even half a mandir...BUT even nimanney people like me have taught the entire Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji to HUNDREDS...so How many GOLD Mandirs have I donated ??...looking at a few THOUSAND Shabds in Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji ?? I hardly pay my monthly DASWANDH and its certainly not even 10 grammes of GOLD.....BUT Bhai Gurdass says different !!!

Again Giani Ji you are questioning Bhai Sahib Ji’s Kabit in your post by showing lack of trust (ਸ਼ਰਧਾ) in Bhai Sahib Ji’s word. Bhai Sahib Ji is not telling you to give away Mandirs of Gold, he is saying that you will get quivalent Phall of giving away Mandirs of Gold. It has nothing to do with what Daswand you pay or not.
Kabit:

ਪੰਚ ਬਾਰ ਗੰਗ ਜਾਇ ਬਾਰ ਪੰਚ ਪ੍ਰਾਗ ਨਾਇ ਤੈਸਾ ਪੁੰਨ ਏਕ ਗੁਰਸਿਖ ਕਉ ਨਵਾਏ ਕਾ।
ਸਿਖ ਕਉ ਪਿਲਾਇ ਪਾਨੀ ਭਾਉ ਕਰ ਕੁਰਖੇਤ ਅਸ੍ਵਮੇਧ ਜਗ ਫਲ ਸਿਖ ਕਉ ਜਿਵਾਏ ਕਾ।
ਜੈਸੇ ਸਤ ਮੰਦਰ ਕੰਚਨ ਕੇ ਉਸਾਰ ਦੀਨੇ ਤੈਸਾ ਪੁੰਨ ਸਿਖ ਕਉ ਇਕ ਸ਼ਬਦ ਸਿਖਾਏ ਕਾ।
ਜੈਸੇ ਬੀਸ ਬਾਰ ਦਰਸਨ ਸਾਧ ਕੀਆ ਕਾਹੂ ਤੈਸਾ ਫਲ ਸਿਖ ਕਉ ਚਾਪ ਪਗ ਸੁਆਏ ਕਾ॥

Giani Ji, Daas is not finding faults, but the problem is that all your answers are biased to Prof. Sahib Singh Ji. You are seeing everything through Prof. Sahib Singh Ji’s glasses.

Daas Khima da Jachak aa Ji.

Gyani Jarnail Singh · May 19, 2012

khalsitani lion jio....daas nu vee khimaa karnee jee.
Lets agree to disagree. Btw the English I mentioned is NOT Shakespeare..But English in 1970...Malaysia..when we had to send TELEGRAPHS..i dont think you have seen a copy...google one...so Apples do look like oranges..sometimes if we are not too picky..
Whatever i see I see..whether its through Bhai Sahib Singh jis eyes or through Bhai Thakur Singh's eyes..makes no difference because i see what i see..that is GURU jis KIRPA on Me.
So khima karnee.japposatnamwaheguru:

prakash.s.bagga · May 19, 2012

onspjo said:
First of all, Guru Gobind Singh Sahibji de gurpurab di bahut bahut wadhai howe.

Secondly, Please help me on this:
What is the correct pronunciation of the word: Waheguru.

In Gurmukhi, there is sihari(i) to the letter h in the word waheguru. Do we pronounce it as WAAH-E-GURU or WAAH-GURU without the long A sound.

For example: In the word AAD, there is sihari to the letter d, but we don't pronounce it as AAD-E. Similarly, In Sat Shri Akal, There is Sihari to the letter t, and we say it SAT not SAT-E.

My thinking is that there is a pause and stress to the letter where there is Sihari to the letter and not the E(long a) sound.

Thanks.

From the Gurmukhi word itself it is very clear as to what should be the pronunciation of this word.
There is obvious matra of Sihari with the last letter of the word WAH.

There is no indication of matra related to Vowel E in the word WAH.

I just fail to understand why there should be so much confusion in accepting correct pronunciation.

Prakash.s.Bagga

Ambarsaria · May 19, 2012

For what it is worth a layman's attempt at describing phonetics in English as below,

<!--[if gte mso 9]><xml> <w:WordDocument> <w:View>Normal</w:View> <w:Zoom>0</w:Zoom> <w

unctuationKerning/> <w:ValidateAgainstSchemas/> <w:SaveIfXMLInvalid>false</w:SaveIfXMLInvalid> <w:IgnoreMixedContent>false</w:IgnoreMixedContent> <w:AlwaysShowPlaceholderText>false</w:AlwaysShowPlaceholderText> <w:Compatibility> <w:BreakWrappedTables/> <w:SnapToGridInCell/> <w:WrapTextWithPunct/> <w:UseAsianBreakRules/> <w

ontGrowAutofit/> <w:UseFELayout/> </w:Compatibility> <w:BrowserLevel>MicrosoftInternetExplorer4</w:BrowserLevel> </w:WordDocument> </xml><![endif]-->

ਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂ
ਵਾ-- Wa -- as in Wawa
ਹਿ -- Hi -- as in Hick
ਗੁ -- Goe -- as in Goethe
ਰੂ -- Roo -- as in Rooster
ESSENCE: How marvelous the creator

The other word as,

ਵਾਹਗੁਰੂ
ਵਾ-- Wa -- as in Wawa
ਹ -- Ha -- as in Haha (note that a should be half an a sound)
ਗੁ -- Goe -- as in Goethe
ਰੂ -- Roo -- as in Rooster
 ESSENCE: Marvelous is the creator

<!--[if gte mso 9]><xml> <w:WordDocument> <w:View>Normal</w:View> <w:Zoom>0</w:Zoom> <w

unctuationKerning/> <w:ValidateAgainstSchemas/> <w:SaveIfXMLInvalid>false</w:SaveIfXMLInvalid> <w:IgnoreMixedContent>false</w:IgnoreMixedContent> <w:AlwaysShowPlaceholderText>false</w:AlwaysShowPlaceholderText> <w:Compatibility> <w:BreakWrappedTables/> <w:SnapToGridInCell/> <w:WrapTextWithPunct/> <w:UseAsianBreakRules/> <w

ontGrowAutofit/> <w:UseFELayout/> </w:Compatibility> <w:BrowserLevel>MicrosoftInternetExplorer4</w:BrowserLevel> </w:WordDocument> </xml><![endif]-->

ਵਾਹੇਗੁਰੂ
ਵਾ-- Wa -- as in Wawa
ਹੇ-- Hay -- as in Hay
ਗੁ -- Goe -- as in Goethe
ਰੂ -- Roo -- as in Rooster
 ESSENCE: Creator you are marvelous

I stand corrected.

Sat Sri Akal.

Khalistani_lion · May 19, 2012

Gyani Jarnail Singh said:
khalsitani lion jio....daas nu vee khimaa karnee jee.
Lets agree to disagree. Btw the English I mentioned is NOT Shakespeare..But English in 1970...Malaysia..when we had to send TELEGRAPHS..i dont think you have seen a copy...google one...so Apples do look like oranges..sometimes if we are not too picky..
Whatever i see I see..whether its through Bhai Sahib Singh jis eyes or through Bhai Thakur Singh's eyes..makes no difference because i see what i see..that is GURU jis KIRPA on Me.
So khima karnee.japposatnamwaheguru:

Vaheguru Ji Ka Khalsa Vaheguru Ji Ki Fateh!!

Daas respect both Bhai Sahib Singh Ji and Giani Thakur Singh Ji for their Seva but don't agree with everything that they say. By the way, Giani Thakur Singh Ji himself could not pronounce every Aunkar and Sihari to the last letter, although in his Muharni teaching Video he says that they were taught to pronounce every LAG.
Pronunciation of Aunkar and Sihari to last letter is also supported by Dr. Harkirat Singh (Linguist, Patiala University) in his book who is equally qualified as Prof. Sahib Singh Ji.
So, Daas dee benti is that pronouncing Aunkar Sihari to last akhar should also be considered and practised or atleast, Sangat shouldn't be discouraged from pronouncing it.

ਗੁਰਸਿਖਾਂ ਕੀ ਹਰਿ ਧੂੜਿ ਦੇਹਿ ਹਮ ਪਾਪੀ ਭੀ ਗਤਿ ਪਾਂਹਿ॥

Vaheguru Ji Ka Khalsa Vaheguru Ji Ki Fateh!!

Daas came across this Bibliography of Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji about Shudh Ucharan:

Studies
The debate surrounding correct pronunciation of Gurbani started around 1975. However, before this there had been written works on Gurbani language, such as by Bhai Randhir Singh, Principal Teja Singh and Prof. Sahib Singh where the Gurbani pronunciation was commented. The issue of correct pronunciation of Gurbani was discussed at a Path-Bodh Samagam held in Amritsar. Giani Gurditt Singh, a famous Panthic scholar made the first lecture on this issue. This debate was also published in the ’Singh Sabha Patrika’, a monthly journal at that time edited by Giani ji.
The major argument of Giani Gurditt Singh was that Gurbani pronunciation should follow the norm of contemporary Punjabi language. His view was that the Gurbani language was infact the language spoken in Punjab at that time, ie the Puratan Punjabi. This view was also supported by Principal Harbhajan Singh in his book Gurbani Sampadan Nirnay, written in 1981. These scholars followed the approach by Prof. Sahib Singh and his views about the compilation of Sri Guru Granth Sahib.
However, this view was criticized by Sirdar Inder Singh, a member of the Chief Khalsa Diwan, Delhi. In 1985, Inder Singh and a famous Punjabi linguist, Dr Harkeerat Singh published a work on the pronunciation of Gurbani. The two scholars again published a book the issue in 1993, and Harkeerat Singh has also commented the issue in detail in his latest book,Gurbani di Bhasa te Vyakaran, from 1997.
The linguistic approach to this problem is that langauge does not have a fixed share or form, it evolves with time. The Bani found in Sri Guru Granth Sahib was written between 1173 AD (Baba Farid) and 1675 AD (Guru Tegh Bahadur Sahib), and it is natural that there is a great linguistic variation between these five hundred years. Therefore, we find differences in not only grammar, but also the vocabulary and the pronunciation. This explains why we find several forms of spellings and sentence-formations in Gurbani.
The three major arguments found in the writings of Harkeerat Singh have their background in this view. He says that the Puratan Punjabi had different tones as compared with the modern Punjabi. At that time, he says, only the vocabulary was taken by Arabic and Persian, not the pronunciation. Thus, the words found in Gurbani without the pairi bindi, that we today write with that sign, were pronounced without those sounds in the Guru-period. Secondly, he says that Gurbani langauge was influenced by the Lahndi dialect (or Multani), that was considered the standard Punjabi at the time. Later on, the standard became the central Punjabi dialect of Amritsar (Majhi or Taksali boli). While, the Lahndi had very little nasal sounds, the Amritsari dialect had developed the sounds represented by the tippi and the bindi. However, when Gurbani was written it was pronounced without these sounds, as was the case with the Lahndi dialect. Therefore, Gurbani does not have these signs at places where we today would write them to show the nasal sounds.
The third major debate is about the value of sihari and aunkar. In this view, Prof. Sahib Singh, Teja Singh and Bhai Randhir Singh had said that these represent the grammatical structure of the Shabad-vak, and are interpretive tools, and may not be pronounced. However, Harkeerat Singh has also breaked away from the grammarians at this point saying that as Punjabi language developed from the Prakrit and Apabhrãshas, these langauges had sihari and aunkar both in writing and pronunciation. Thus, the siharis and aunkars found in Gurbani should be pronouned, according to this view.
This makes Harkeerat Singh and Inder Singh’s arguments very clear, meaning that Gurbani should be pronounced exactly as it is written in Gurmukhi script. Every symbol found in Gurbani is there because it was pronounced in the original tongue of the Guru-period.

prakash.s.bagga · May 20, 2012

Ambarsaria said:
For what it is worth a layman's attempt at describing phonetics in English as below,

The other word as,
I stand corrected.

Sat Sri Akal.

Ref ...your message #87
The word as depicted in third and last quote is not there in Gurbanee. Whereas ist and 2nd Quote words are very much there in Gurbanee .Can one create a word of his own and make a claim to be the word of Gurbanee? This amounts to nothing but manipulation.
This needs to be corrected.
Prakash.s.Bagga

Ambarsaria · May 20, 2012

prakash.s.bagga said:
Ref ...your message #87
The word as depicted in third and last quote is not there in Gurbanee. Whereas ist and 2nd Quote words are very much there in Gurbanee .Can one create a word of his own and make a claim to be the word of Gurbanee? This amounts to nothing but manipulation.
This needs to be corrected.
Prakash.s.Bagga

Prakash.S.Bagga ji are you really that thick. The words and pronunciations are Punjabi. I don't claim or pretend connections to Gurbani neither did I state any in the post. Not every word in Punjabi and written in many ways has to do with Gurbani. Languages add words all the time and people can write many variations. They can then describe what they mean. Some will make sense and be accepted and others will not. I simply showed accents and possible meanings given the commonality of syllables.

Please read the posts without venom and approach to finding faults. Just reflect on your posts in this thread, other than finding faults what have you personally contributed? Respectfully, this is not expected of a 60 year old learned Sikh.

Sat Sri Akal.

Luckysingh · May 20, 2012

Indian speaking languages have a few pronunciation problems when it comes to english speaking languages.
An example is the sharp 'V' sound in english that is not used much in indian speaking languages. This 'V' sound is made by putting your upper teeth on to bottom lip and saying 'E' from the base of your mouth,- result is a sharp 'V' as in 'Victory' or 'Vertical'

In indian speaking there is also no direct 'W' sound, the W and V sound which is ਵ, comes somewhere in between the 2 english sounds.
Probably the most closest indian word with 'V' to english 'V' is 'Vaadiyanh'

Even the dialects vary in indian from gepgraphical areas, such as the word 'Vadha' meaning 'big' or 'large' will be heard with a sharper 'V' in areas like 'Vadha' or with a more casual 'W' such as 'Waddha', depending on where you hear it.

This 'V' also causes the problems with the mispronounced 'W' that we commonly hear in indian speaking english-
such as
'Vindow' instead of 'window'
'Vann O'clock' instead of 'One O'clock'
'Vait a minute' instead of 'Wait a minute'
'Wordical' instead of 'Vertical' - this is often heard here as the indians will put on an american influenced accent with their words. (from the way they are taught in many indian areas now)
'Very bewildering' on the other hand will be pronounced 'Wery beVildering'

The list is endless
Some of you may find this a little amusing and be sniggering as you will recall hearing these pronunciations in your experiences, but these 'W''s and 'V's are very often mixed up for this very reason.

We all know these mispronunciation of words and accents are used as the butt of endlees jokes about indians, but the few punjabis that I have tried to teach in order to correct them seem to have a great deal of difficulty grasping the application and difference in 'V's and 'W's.

Now, with all this mind, you will understand what I'm getting at here.
On this thread we are discussing 'correct pronunciation of WAHEGURU'

This itself is open to debate on NOT THE GRAMMAR but simple pronounciation by a pure english speaking or the indian english speaking.
We know that there is a difference if english is your first or second language.
In this case we would regard people born or who have been raised as children here in the west as having english as 1st language, and people from India as having it as 2nd language.

Waheguru
Vaheguru

Ambarsaria · May 20, 2012

Luckysingh ji thanks for your post. My inspiration for "Wa" comes from listening to the name Wawa (a town in Ontario, Canada) by people with first language English. If you have friend with first language English, ask them to say it, it is fun. There is incredibly exact match to the sound I always heard for

<!--[if gte mso 9]><xml> <w:WordDocument> <w:View>Normal</w:View> <w:Zoom>0</w:Zoom> <w

unctuationKerning/> <w:ValidateAgainstSchemas/> <w:SaveIfXMLInvalid>false</w:SaveIfXMLInvalid> <w:IgnoreMixedContent>false</w:IgnoreMixedContent> <w:AlwaysShowPlaceholderText>false</w:AlwaysShowPlaceholderText> <w:Compatibility> <w:BreakWrappedTables/> <w:SnapToGridInCell/> <w:WrapTextWithPunct/> <w:UseAsianBreakRules/> <w

ontGrowAutofit/> <w:UseFELayout/> </w:Compatibility> <w:BrowserLevel>MicrosoftInternetExplorer4</w:BrowserLevel> </w:WordDocument> </xml><![endif]--> ਵਾ -- Wa -- as in Wawa
That is my reference.

English of course is not my first language. However outside of home I have only spoken English for the last 42 years including during all education during this period.

Sat Sri Akal.

Gyani Jarnail Singh · May 21, 2012

There is no "dispute" about how Guru is pronunced..and the pronounciation fo WAHE is also beyond dispute ..so it naturally follows that any attempts to create confusion when the two are joined up..WAHE-GURU...is a self defeating exercise in futility. Thats why the lines contain many WAHEGURU....and also a WAHE at the end....Wahe Jio.

Harry Haller · May 21, 2012

Ask a punjabi to pronounce USB, I find more often than not it comes out as Joo Ess Bee, explanations?

Khalistani_lion · May 21, 2012

harry haller said:
Ask a punjabi to pronounce USB, I find more often than not it comes out as Joo Ess Bee, explanations?

Its that Punjabi's lack of understanding of correct pronunciation of USB that the sound of U is ਯੂ, not ਜੂ

Gyani Jarnail Singh · May 21, 2012

A Punjabi teacher pronounced Psychology..as Fasaai Challo Ji...apologies becasue only a Punjabi can get this joke.

Luckysingh · May 21, 2012

harry haller said:
Ask a punjabi to pronounce USB, I find more often than not it comes out as Joo Ess Bee, explanations?

Yeh, good one, I didn't realise that one. But there isn't that sound made with U as in 'you' or 'Uganda'.
I think the 'Y' sound as in 'Yard' or 'Yaar' is more common there doesn't seem to be many Y followed by U or Ooo sound as in Yugoslavia.
But, I think you agree with the common V and W's I stated earlier.
It's just that these sounds are hardly used in indian languages, like the USB sound you say.

prakash.s.bagga · May 22, 2012

Ambarsaria said:
Prakash.S.Bagga ji are you really that thick. The words and pronunciations are Punjabi. I don't claim or pretend connections to Gurbani neither did I state any in the post. Not every word in Punjabi and written in many ways has to do with Gurbani. Languages add words all the time and people can write many variations. They can then describe what they mean. Some will make sense and be accepted and others will not. I simply showed accents and possible meanings given the commonality of syllables.

Please read the posts without venom and approach to finding faults. Just reflect on your posts in this thread, other than finding faults what have you personally contributed? Respectfully, this is not expected of a 60 year old learned Sikh.

Sat Sri Akal.

One should understand what the thread is about?
.The thread is for specific Word s pronunciation.Why unnecessarily create deviations for confusion.?
As ever I am grateful for your remarks and views.

Prakash.s.Bagga

Luckysingh · May 22, 2012

If you can't FEEL the word 'waheguru' resonating inside you, then it doesn't matter wether you pronounce it one way or the other, right or wrong.

Harry Haller · May 23, 2012

prakash.s.bagga said:
One should understand what the thread is about?
.The thread is for specific Word s pronunciation.Why unnecessarily create deviations for confusion.?
As ever I am grateful for your remarks and views.

Prakash.s.Bagga

Prakash Veerji,

As someone who unnecessarily creates deviations for confusion in almost every thread, that is a bit rich.

lol lol mundahug

Correct Pronunciation Of Waheguru

prakash.s.bagga

prakash.s.bagga

Ishna

Khalistani_lion

Gyani Jarnail Singh

Sawa lakh se EK larraoan

prakash.s.bagga

Ambarsaria

ੴ / Ik▫oaŉkār

Khalistani_lion

prakash.s.bagga

Ambarsaria

ੴ / Ik▫oaŉkār

Luckysingh

Ambarsaria

ੴ / Ik▫oaŉkār

Gyani Jarnail Singh

Sawa lakh se EK larraoan

Harry Haller

Khalistani_lion

Gyani Jarnail Singh

Sawa lakh se EK larraoan

Luckysingh

prakash.s.bagga

Luckysingh

Harry Haller

Latest Activity