Creator /God ਦਾਤਾ/ਰੱਬ In Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji Is Masculine Or Feminine And What Is The Significa

[prakash.s.bagga]

TEJWANT SINGH Ji,
First of all I may make it clear that there is no claim that any interpretation from my side is going to be 100% correct.Since the judgement about the correctness of interpretation is to be made by a person with his own level of understanding.
Only thing is we can share our views to get the meanings of Gurbani verses as close to Gurmati way as possible.
You can understand that Gurbani interpretation is not an easy task it would require a lot of in depth knowledge of each and every word along with grammer implications.
I feel at this juncture if we can understand only Basics of Gurbani concept that should be enough.
I intend to continue sharing SABAD wherin Basics of Gurbani understanding is vital.
With regards
Prakash.S.Bagga

 

[prakash.s.bagga]

TEJWANT SINGH Ji,
You should agree to the fact that every word NOUN/Adjective word has meaning.
So we have to make use of the meanings avaiable as per Sources.
There is no question of liking or disliking by me for any word as sch.I respect all the words which can be used correctly for Gurbani words but its use should conform to the grammer of Gurbani.
Because we domt make use of the word Parmaatma as per grammer of the word.Using in a wrong way makes the meanings of Gurbani message incorrect.There are words like Parmaatamu/Parmaatam used in Gurbani correctly as per grammer.

We may not like the use of word LORD for reasons given in your post.But we may like to use the word GOD which can not be used for any reference in Gurani as per grammer of the word GOD. I understand the word GOD is a most respectable word in other philosophy for the creator.So I dorespect this word too but its use for any reference in Gurbani is not justified.
With regards
Prakash.S.Bagga

 

[Scarlet Pimpernel]

SP ji I am right now working at a diamond mine

Veer ji That is right , study what you have mined ,you are indeed blessed ,alas I know not how to mine ,so I have befriended the owner, in order that he may bless me with light duties.
Sarah Brightman & Andrea Bocelli - Time to Say Goodbye 1998 Video stereo widescreen - YouTube

 

[Taranjeet singh]

Well said Spji...Was it easy to befriend? It seems the simplest way for a layman like me. 0

 

[Tejwant Singh]

Prakash Singh ji,

Guru Fateh.

You write:

First of all I may make it clear that there is no claim that any interpretation from my side is going to be 100% correct.Since the judgement about the correctness of interpretation is to be made by a person with his own level of understanding.

I beg to differ with you. As you claim to know Gurbani grammar and as you have rightly said many times that without understanding grammar in Gurbani, one can not understand the message, so the interpretation coming from you is expected to be better than from any one of us here who do not understand the grammar as well. You have the unique talent that we do not possess.

But, now you are changing your tune for some reason. Anyone would expect the right interpretation so one can understand the Gurus', especially from yourself who understands the grammar otherwise understanding grammar becomes useless and futile if it is not applied in the right way, you have said this yourself many times.

1.

Only thing is we can share our views to get the meanings of Gurbani verses as close to Gurmati way as possible.

But you have not shared your views. You have copied and pasted a distorted version of the English interpretation which I pointed out to you. With this the grammar's usage is distorted too.

I have asked you some questions based on your interpretation which you have not responded to. I will be waiting for the responses.

You can understand that Gurbani interpretation is not an easy task it would require a lot of in depth knowledge of each and every word along with grammer implications.

I totally agree with you.Exactly my point. The question arises Bagga ji, Why should it be easy?

Then how can posting distorted and incorrect English translations of Gurbani is right, especially from you who has deep knowledge of Gurbani grammar?

2.

I feel at this juncture if we can understand only Basics of Gurbani concept that should be enough.

You are contradicting in your quotes marked number 1 and 2

I intend to continue sharing SABAD wherin Basics of Gurbani understanding is vital.

Thanks for that, but if you want the Sangat to understand Gurbani based on your Gurbani's grammar knowledge, then it becomes your duty as a Sikh to you interpret the whole Shabad fully, in your own words in English and share it with us along with your grammar knowledge. It would be demeaning to Gurbani and to our Gurus to just pick and choose some words and it would not serve any purpose either to anyone as far as understanding Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji message is concerned. No one can eat the half cooked Roti.

So, I will be waiting for your own interpretations of these two Shabads that you chose showing us the grammar in them so we can learn from them and become better Sikhs. We need your SEVA in this.

Thanks & regards

Tejwant Singh

 

[Tejwant Singh]

Prakash Singh ji,

Guru Fateh.

Thanks for your post.

You write:

You should agree to the fact that every word NOUN/Adjective word has meaning.

I totally agree with you, that is why posting distorted and incorrect translations in English of Gurbani is doing disservice as mentioned in my previous post because then the usage of Noun/adjective in the incorrect and distorted version becomes incorrect too. I am sure you will agree with me on that.

So we have to make use of the meanings avaiable as per Sources.

I beg to differ with you. There are many sources available. The non distorted version can easily be used through the right sources.

There is no question of liking or disliking by me for any word as sch

.

I do not want to get into a circular argument but those were exactly your words when Prof. Sahib Singh ji used Pramaatma to explain and interpret the meaning of Ik Ong Kaar. We have to use some words which are not in the SGGS, our only Guru to make things easier for others and Prof. Sahib Singh has done a tremendous job in my view regarding this.

I respect all the words which can be used correctly for Gurbani words but its use should conform to the grammer of Gurbani.

I agree. Thanks for pointing this out. Now it becomes your duty as a Sikh to do this SEVA of teaching us grammar by interpreting the whole Shabad, not picking and choosing some words of your fancy.

Because we domt make use of the word Parmaatma as per grammer of the word.Using in a wrong way makes the meanings of Gurbani message incorrect.There are words like Parmaatamu/Parmaatam used in Gurbani correctly as per grammer.

It was about the interpretation as mentioned before. Nothing to do with the words used in the SGGS, our only Guru and Prof. Sahib Singh did not use this word instead of what is in the Gurbani in a verse. You know that.

We may not like the use of word LORD for reasons given in your post.But we may like to use the word GOD which can not be used for any reference in Gurani as per grammer of the word GOD. I understand the word GOD is a most respectable word in other philosophy for the creator.So I dorespect this word too but its use for any reference in Gurbani is not justified.

That is why I only use Ik Ong Kaar or The Source. I do not use any other word.

I know, you disagree with me about my usage of Ik Ong Kaar because for you EKANKAAR is the right word which I tend to disagree with.

BTW, are you aware that there is a Radasoami sect managed by some white guys with the same name?

http://www.eckankar.org

Check it out.

Thanks & regards

Tejwant Singh

 

[Harry Haller]

re: eckankar.org

I think you have this wrong Tejwantji, this looks like a firm of accountants

 

[Tejwant Singh]

Harry ji,

Guru Fateh.

No it is not. But it takes a lot of money from its followers here is the full address:

http://www.eckankar.org/?source=google_home2&gclid=CKKyi7v-8qwCFQg1hwodUUbVNA

 

[Harry Haller]

Tejwantji,

Well they look like accountants, I was expecting flowing hair, long beards, john lennon glasses

I would find it hard to accept my leader as a man who looked like an accountant and was called Harold.....

sorry no reply needed, dont wish to go off topic

 

[prakash.s.bagga]

Prakash Singh ji,

Guru Fateh.

You write:

I beg to differ with you. As you claim to know Gurbani grammar and as you have rightly said many times that without understanding grammar in Gurbani, one can not understand the message, so the interpretation coming from you is expected to be better than from any one of us here who do not understand the grammar as well. You have the unique talent that we do not possess.

RESPONSE.................I never made such a claim of knowing Gurbani grammer (Making claim is different than knowing about something )

But, now you are changing your tune for some reason. Anyone would expect the right interpretation so one can understand the Gurus', especially from yourself who understands the grammar otherwise understanding grammar becomes useless and futile if it is not applied in the right way, you have said this yourself many times.

RESPONSE.......I find hard to do so because of wide variation in the understanding of sharing of views.

1.But you have not shared your views. You have copied and pasted a distorted version of the English interpretation which I pointed out to you. With this the grammar's usage is distorted too.

RESPONSE.......In that case I should not share views because I fail to understand your definition of sharing the views.In the present scenario you may find my every view as distorted of the already English interpretation.
This is your own look out I cant help it.

I have asked you some questions based on your interpretation which you have not responded to. I will be waiting for the responses.

I totally agree with you.Exactly my point. The question arises Bagga ji, Why should it be easy?

Then how can posting distorted and incorrect English translations of Gurbani is right, especially from you who has deep knowledge of Gurbani grammar?

2.You are contradicting in your quotes marked number 1 and 2

Thanks for that, but if you want the Sangat to understand Gurbani based on your Gurbani's grammar knowledge, then it becomes your duty as a Sikh to you interpret the whole Shabad fully, in your own words in English and share it with us along with your grammar knowledge. It would be demeaning to Gurbani and to our Gurus to just pick and choose some words and it would not serve any purpose either to anyone as far as understanding Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji message is concerned. No one can eat the half cooked Roti.

So, I will be waiting for your own interpretations of these two Shabads that you chose showing us the grammar in them so we can learn from them and become better Sikhs. We need your SEVA in this.

RESPONSE..........Well I am sorry to say that I will not be able to satisfy your unending requirements.

You can ask me specific question I can resond to only that much I can do.



Thanks & regards

Tejwant Singh

In fact I am unable to understand your expectations .
With regards
Prakash.S.Bagga

 

[prakash.s.bagga]

Prakash Singh ji,

Guru Fateh.

Thanks for your post.

You write:



I totally agree with you, that is why posting distorted and incorrect translations in English of Gurbani is doing disservice as mentioned in my previous post because then the usage of Noun/adjective in the incorrect and distorted version becomes incorrect too. I am sure you will agree with me on that.

RESPONSE..........Obviously this is true



I beg to differ with you. There are many sources available. The non distorted version can easily be used through the right sources.

RESPONSE.............It would be nice of you to tell some better source.


.

I do not want to get into a circular argument but those were exactly your words when Prof. Sahib Singh ji used Pramaatma to explain and interpret the meaning of Ik Ong Kaar. We have to use some words which are not in the Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji, our only Guru to make things easier for others and Prof. Sahib Singh has done a tremendous job in my view regarding this.


RESPONSE....If understand the grammer of the word Parmaatama you should have the same conclusion as me.



I agree. Thanks for pointing this out. Now it becomes your duty as a Sikh to do this SEVA of teaching us grammar by interpreting the whole Shabad, not picking and choosing some words of your fancy.

RESONSE............We will have to make some carrect Modus operandi for this.I feel this can not be casual.




It was about the interpretation as mentioned before. Nothing to do with the words used in the Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji, our only Guru and Prof. Sahib Singh did not use this word instead of what is in the Gurbani in a verse. You know that.

RESPONSE..........I disagree to this view.We should be able to interprate Gurbani using the words from Gurbani only.Otherwise it will lead us nowhere.



That is why I only use Ik Ong Kaar or The Source. I do not use any other word.

I dond find this interpretation in SGGS so I cant give any comment It is yourown choice.

I know, you disagree with me about my usage of Ik Ong Kaar because for you EKANKAAR is the right word which I tend to disagree with.

BTW, are you aware that there is a Radasoami sect managed by some white guys with the same name?

I know several other organisation like that .So what this means for me.?
Nothing .


http://www.eckankar.org

Check it out.

Thanks & regards

Tejwant Singh

I have resonded to your most of questions.
Let me be very clear unless I am sure about your level of understanding of Gurbani grammer it would be very difficult for me to share the views.
It is felt you only want me to go on writing for all your negative comments at the end.
I am going to be busy with my profession .If yu ask me any specific question ,as a duty of Gursikh it would be my pleasure to do that.

With warm regards
Prakash.S.Bagga

 

[Ambarsaria]

That is why I only use Ik Ong Kaar or The Source. I do not use any other word.

Veer ji thanks for your response. Well stated.

I do believe the following initiates a definition of ੴ ([/FONT]Ik▫oaʼnkār) and that it cannot be fully defined per-se by anyone,

ੴ[/FONT]
Akwl purK ie`k hY
God/creator is one
Note: Prakash.S.Bagga ji I assume you question the above and are saying that it is not defineable as ੴ ([/FONT]Ik▫oaʼnkār) but only as EKANKAAR(u) as such is used in Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji more than ੴ and is more definable in those contexts!


ਸਤਿ ਨਾਮੁ ਕਰਤਾ ਪੁਰਖੁ ਨਿਰਭਉ ਨਿਰਵੈਰੁ ਅਕਾਲ ਮੂਰਤਿ ਅਜੂਨੀ ਸੈਭੰ ਗੁਰ ਪ੍ਰਸਾਦਿ ॥

ijs dw nwm 'hoNd vwlw' hY jo isRStI dw rcnhwr hY, jo sB ivc ivAwpk hY, BY qoN rihq hY, vYr-rihq hY, ijs dw srUp kwl qoN pry hY, (Bwv, ijs dw srIr nws-rihq hY), jo jUnW ivc nhIN AwauNdw, ijs dw pRkwS Awpxy Awp qoN hoieAw hY Aqy jo siqgurU dI ikrpw nwl imldw hY[

Known as the eternal being, is the creator of all, present everywhere, without fear, without animosity, is timeless, is not guided by life cycles, is a self creation and is realized through its own (God/creator) blessing.​

Any comments and clarification appreciated.

Sat Sri Akal.

​

 

[prakash.s.bagga]

AMBARSARIA Ji,
My understanding about Creator in Gurbani is also different.Accordingly CREATOR in Gurbani is not something ONE CREATOR is a SYSTEM with different references as

A......GuR....... (GuR JoTi) GuRoo-GuR.....A SINGLE WAVE OF THE WORD GuRoo.

B......PRABH JoT(i) The expansion of GuR -JoT(i) being refered as Iku EKANKAAR.

C......ONGKAAR

The Source of the above SYSTEM is SABADu GuRoo.

Now you can see how CREATOR in Gurbaani can be considered as related to being ONE.
I am sure it is difficult to agree for this.But this is the fact of Gurbani and this is how I have understood from Gurbani.

NowI expect you should present me your point of view for my consideration for Ik Ong Kaar and its definition.I am prepared to accept if the explanation is as per Gurbani.

Prakash.S.Bagga

 

[Tejwant Singh]

I have resonded to your most of questions.
Let me be very clear unless I am sure about your level of understanding of Gurbani grammer it would be very difficult for me to share the views.
It is felt you only want me to go on writing for all your negative comments at the end.
I am going to be busy with my profession .If yu ask me any specific question ,as a duty of Gursikh it would be my pleasure to do that.

With warm regards
Prakash.S.Bagga

Prakash Singh ji,

Guru Fateh.

Thanks for the warning in bold above. You mean you can challenge other people's understanding of grammar but no one can challenge yours. Isn't this one of the 5 thieves that Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji, our only Guru advises us not to become the slave of?

Regards

Tejwant Singh

PS: It is GRAMMAR not GRAMMER as you have been writing all along.

 

[prakash.s.bagga]

Prakash Singh ji,

Guru Fateh.

Thanks for the warning in bold above. You mean you can challenge other people's understanding of grammar but no one can challenge yours. Isn't this one of the 5 thieves that Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji, our only Guru advises us not to become the slave of?

Regards

Tejwant Singh

PS: It is GRAMMAR not GRAMMER as you have been writing all along.

TEJWANT SINGH Ji,These are your personal views I dont feel making comment .I thank for your suggection correct spelling of the word as Grammar.
With regards
Prakash.S.Bagga

 

[Tejwant Singh]

TEJWANT SINGH Ji,These are your personal views I dont feel making comment .I thank for your suggection correct spelling of the word as Grammar.
With regards
Prakash.S.Bagga

Prakash Singh ji,

Guru Fateh,

You are incorrect once again. The following are your words, not mine. Mine was a question regarding your following claim, that can you only judge other people's Gurbani GrammAr but others can not judge yours?

Please re- read your own claim again and elaborate what you are trying to say.

Let me be very clear unless I am sure about your level of understanding of Gurbani grammer it would be very difficult for me to share the views.

Your claim implies that you are the only one who knows Gurbani grammAr. It is rather arrogant and Gurbani teaches us how not to act like this. Don't you think?

It is our duty as Sikhs to be truthful because we are truth seekers. I am sure you are aware of that.

Regards

Tejwant Singh

 

[Ambarsaria]

NowI expect you should present me your point of view for my consideration for Ik Ong Kaar and its definition.I am prepared to accept if the explanation is as per Gurbani.
Prakash.S.Bagga

Prakash.S.Bagga veer ji thanks for your response. I want to understand the above sentences as you have mentioned it in some other posts as well. I believe it has been mentioned as Gurbani can only be understood through words used in Gurbani as another way of saying the same thing. Why should Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji be used as a dictionary of Punjabi language? Guru ji did not mean it that way, Baba Farid ji hundreds of years before Guru Nanak ji did not write it that way neither did Kabir ji and all.

Gurbani is written in Punjabi with words from other languages. If Guru ji and writers were alive and here they will explain and it is our duty to understand such through people who can dissect and clarify such special words. Prof. Sahib Singh ji has done, Kahan Singh Nabha ji has done, and many others have tried to help. Why should I be not convinced by such if I need help for such special cases if I do dwell on such and be convinced so through my own sanity and study. Much of rest I understand because it is Punjabi. The following some examples of Sanskrit constructs,

ੴ
<> au~cwrn vyly ies dy iqMn ih`sy kIqy jWdy hn-1, E Aqy > ; ies dw pwT hY ‘iek EAMkwr’[ iqMn ih`sy v`Ko v`Kry au~cwirAW ieauN bxdy hn:-
1-ie`k[ E-EAM[ > -kwr[‘E’ sMsik®q dw Sbd hY[

eykMkwru-eyk EAMkwr, auh iek EAM jo iek-rs hY, jo hr QW ivAwpk hY[

so, "<>" dw au~cwrn hY " iek (eyk) EAMkwr" Aqy iesdw ArQ hY "iek Akwl purK, jo iek-rs ivAwpk hY"[

ਆਖ੍ਯ੍ਯਰ: ਇਕ ਆਖ੍ਯ੍ਯਰ = (ਸੰ. एकाक्षर) ਅਕਾਲ ਪੁਰਖ।

ਸੁਧਾਖ੍ਯ੍ਯਰ ਸੁੱਧ ਅੱਖਰ, ਪਵਿਤ੍ਰ ਲਫ਼ਜ਼।

Please comment.

Sat Sri Akal.

 

[prakash.s.bagga]

Prakash Singh ji,

Guru Fateh,

You are incorrect once again. The following are your words, not mine. Mine was a question regarding your following claim, that can you only judge other people's Gurbani GrammAr but others can not judge yours?

Please re- read your own claim again and elaborate what you are trying to say.



Your claim implies that you are the only one who knows Gurbani grammAr. It is rather arrogant and Gurbani teaches us how not to act like this. Don't you think?

It is our duty as Sikhs to be truthful because we are truth seekers. I am sure you are aware of that.

Regards

Tejwant Singh

TEJWANT SINGh Ji,
I would not deny the quote mentioned by you.It is so because I felt you never clarify your understanding and every time I was being expected to do that.There was nothing to offend.I would certainly feel sorry if my view have a tint of offending a person like you.Since begening we have been sharing our views in a most positive way but recenly I noticed something different which I am hard to believe that such can be the views from S TEJWANT SINGH ji.


I am no one to make any claim for any knowledge so far as Gurbani understanding is concerned.I simply presented my observations and my understanding acquired accordingly thru the grace of SATiGuRu.
If you take this as arrogance it may be your own consideration.

With regards,
Prakash.S.Bagga

 

[prakash.s.bagga]

Prakash.S.Bagga veer ji thanks for your response. I want to understand the above sentences as you have mentioned it in some other posts as well. I believe it has been mentioned as Gurbani can only be understood through words used in Gurbani as another way of saying the same thing. Why should Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji be used as a dictionary of Punjabi language? Guru ji did not mean it that way, Baba Farid ji hundreds of years before Guru Nanak ji did not write it that way neither did Kabir ji and all.

Gurbani is written in Punjabi with words from other languages. If Guru ji and writers were alive and here they will explain and it is our duty to understand such through people who can dissect and clarify such special words. Prof. Sahib Singh ji has done, Kahan Singh Nabha ji has done, and many others have tried to help. Why should I be not convinced by such if I need help for such special cases if I do dwell on such and be convinced so through my own sanity and study. Much of rest I understand because it is Punjabi. The following some examples of Sanskrit constructs,
Please comment.

Sat Sri Akal.

AMBARSARIA Ji,

My conviction for the pronunciation is from Gurbani.If you are convinced from other source I have no problem.But certainly we would differ in understanding.
I myself have learnt a lot from the work of Prof Sahib Singh ji. Later on I consulted many other books.What I found that our scholars did not apply grammar the way they presented.You would recall once I had said if Prof Sahib Singh ji had applied grammar understanding sincerely his contribution would have been No One in the world.

You will appreciate a fact that the correct understanding of the Pronunciation of the SYMBOL and its meaning are very crucial to the whole understanding of Gurbani.

As we all know the Script of Gurbani language is Gurmukhi. First we should have perfect knowledge of the grammar of Gurmukhi script in Gurbani.We should understand what is the pattern of Gurbani words for its grammar .
If at all,We require to use any word out of Gurbani that should be satisfying the pattern of Gurbani grammar.otherise its use will be confusing.

We make use of words which are out of Gurbani without considering its proper application as per pattern of Gurbani grammar so this results in deviation or distortion in the overall understanding of Gurbani.
This is the reason I maintain that we should use and understand the words from within Gurbani only.

Prakash.S.Bagga

 

[prakash.s.bagga]

Prakash.S.Bagga veer ji thanks for your response. I want to understand the above sentences as you have mentioned it in some other posts as well. I believe it has been mentioned as Gurbani can only be understood through words used in Gurbani as another way of saying the same thing. Why should Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji be used as a dictionary of Punjabi language? Guru ji did not mean it that way, Baba Farid ji hundreds of years before Guru Nanak ji did not write it that way neither did Kabir ji and all.

Gurbani is written in Punjabi with words from other languages. If Guru ji and writers were alive and here they will explain and it is our duty to understand such through people who can dissect and clarify such special words. Prof. Sahib Singh ji has done, Kahan Singh Nabha ji has done, and many others have tried to help. Why should I be not convinced by such if I need help for such special cases if I do dwell on such and be convinced so through my own sanity and study. Much of rest I understand because it is Punjabi. The following some examples of Sanskrit constructs,
Please comment.

Sat Sri Akal.

AMBARSARIA Ji,

From SANSKRIT words only I know that the word "Ong" is SINGULAR Femine Gender.
The word Ong is created from a letter "O" in Gurmukhi script and this letter is having a "BINDI" on top of it So it is written in Gurmukhi with two letters O and Ang as the word OAng or Ong.

I may suggest you that look at the grammar of the words IK and EK and also see the rule of grammar for connecting two Noun Words in Gurbani. I hope you may get some thing to decide about this.

Prakash.S.Bagga