• Welcome to all New Sikh Philosophy Network Forums!
    Explore Sikh Sikhi Sikhism...
    Sign up Log in

Creator /God ਦਾਤਾ/ਰੱਬ In Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji Is Masculine Or Feminine And What Is The Significa

Tejwant Singh

Mentor
Writer
SPNer
Jun 30, 2004
5,024
7,183
Henderson, NV.
Prakash Singh ji,

Guru Fateh.

In fact the whole humanity or to say the UNIVERSE is under the grace of CREATOR Prabhu/SatiGuRu.What is special about Sikhs?

You are the one who claimed only rare Sikhs can have Ik Ong Kaar's grace, not me and now you are contradicting yourself.

What is special about Sikhs is Sikhi, the universal message of Gurbani based on objective reality unlike other dogmatic religions who are based on subjective, self made truths like Hell and Heaven.

Sikhs are rare in the sense that Sikhs are blessed with SABADu as LIVING GuRoo.

Exactly my point which I mentioned in my last post. So, now you agree that all Sikhs are rare. I am glad you have changed your mind.

As Sikhs read Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji they automatically get connected to RAAM NAAMu of the Creator.

I beg to differ with you. No, they do not. Reading Gurbani is not enough. Studying Gurbani is the first step.

{Sikhs may not actually be knowing what is RAAM NAAMu in Gurbani)

What makes you say that about other Sikhs? Sikhi is the journey of the individual and each of us carry our own spiritual torch of Sikhi.

For enjoying the grace of the CREATOR Prabhu/SatiGuRu understanding does not play any role.One can enjoy the grace without understanding also.

I am sorry, I did not understand what you are trying to convey. Understanding of what are you talking about? Can you please elaborate with the help of Gurbani from SGGS, our only Guru?

Thanks & regards

Tejwant Singh

PS: I checked the thread and did not see the response regarding the following post as you said you did respond to it. Am I missing something?
http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/sukhma...tml#post157456
 

Ambarsaria

ੴ / Ik▫oaʼnkār
Writer
SPNer
Dec 21, 2010
3,387
5,690
Prakash.s.bagga ji thanks for your post. I am one for sure confused.

prakash.s.bagga said:
As Sikhs read Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji they automatically get connected to RAAM NAAMu of the Creator.
So prakash.s.bagga veer ji this happens at birth, the name ceremony of a child or the adoption of a non-sikh child by a Sikh family, marriage of a non-Sikh to a Sikh or when? I find this actually little disturbing.

Just out of curiosity I did a search at Srigranth.org for your description in the following,

http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/gurma...-god-sri-guru-granth-sahib-14.html#post157485

Very interesting numbers below in terms of occurrences of various terms/words,

ਹਰੀ ਨਾਮੁ 0
ਹਰਿ ਨਾਮੁ 691
ਰਾਮ ਨਾਮੁ
193
ਜਗਦੀਸ
77
ਗੁਰਮਤਿ 283
ਨਾਨਕ
5124
ਨਾਨਕ ਨਾਮੁ
ਨਾਮਿ ਨਾਮ 366
Somehow I don't see the importance of what you say in your post! Can you please comment also in terms of gender of others as we know Guru Nanak Dev ji to be male and the name Guru Nanak is used in conjunction with

ੁ ਿ ਮੁਕਤਾ
prakash.s.bagga said:
{Sikhs may not actually be knowing what is RAAM NAAMu in Gurbani)
Please help with the explanation. It will of course be very worthwhile as I only understand NAAMu to stand for "Name" or "Understanding".

There is no need to put NAAMu with a proper name! So I treat all occurrences of NAAMu with any name as to stand for "understanding" rather than a physical singular name. Please correct me or explain and help.

prakash.s.bagga said:
For enjoying the grace of the CREATOR Prabhu/SatiGuRu understanding does not play any role.One can enjoy the grace without understanding also.
Prakash.S.Bagga
Now this is another perplexing comment. So goes to the question/comment that Tejwant Singh ji had earlier in the thread. So a blind and deaf will have to get it through touching the Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji or touching someone who already has the grace. Please explain and help.

Prakash.s.bagga ji if you imply that creator is in all, and saying it in another way, this I can relate to. As life itself can be considered a grace for all creation and everything else too.

If I agree with your assertions I feel like someone who is slipping down a slippery slope with no ability to brake.

Sat Sri Akal.
 
Last edited:
Aug 28, 2010
1,514
1,116
73
Prakash Singh ji,

Guru Fateh.



You are the one who claimed only rare Sikhs can have Ik Ong Kaar's grace, not me and now you are contradicting yourself.

What is special about Sikhs is Sikhi, the universal message of Gurbani based on objective reality unlike other dogmatic religions who are based on subjective, self made truths like Hell and Heaven.



Exactly my point which I mentioned in my last post. So, now you agree that all Sikhs are rare. I am glad you have changed your mind.



I beg to differ with you. No, they do not. Reading Gurbani is not enough. Studying Gurbani is the first step.



What makes you say that about other Sikhs? Sikhi is the journey of the individual and each of us carry our own spiritual torch of Sikhi.



I am sorry, I did not understand what you are trying to convey. Understanding of what are you talking about? Can you please elaborate with the help of Gurbani from Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji, our only Guru?

Thanks & regards

Tejwant Singh

PS: I checked the thread and did not see the response regarding the following post as you said you did respond to it. Am I missing something?
http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/sukhma...tml#post157456[/QUOTE

Sir ,You have misconstrued my complete message.
I have given the message considering the CREATOR as UNIVERSAL,OMNIPRESENT AND OMNIPOTENT.So with reference to the Universal character of the CREATOR ,the grace of CREATOR should also be UNIVERSAL irespective of any religion of the persons.
If you see the message with reference to this I think most of the contents would be clear.
Prakash.S.Bagga
 

Tejwant Singh

Mentor
Writer
SPNer
Jun 30, 2004
5,024
7,183
Henderson, NV.
Prakash Singh ji,

Guru Fateh.

Sir ,You have misconstrued my complete message.
I have given the message considering the CREATOR as UNIVERSAL,OMNIPRESENT AND OMNIPOTENT.So with reference to the Universal character of the CREATOR ,the grace of CREATOR should also be UNIVERSAL irespective of any religion of the persons.
If you see the message with reference to this I think most of the contents would be clear.

First of all I am no SIR, just a Sikh, a learner, a student.

The above post has nothing to do with your other posts and I do not find any connection with them either. This is totally out of the left field using the baseball jargon.

You are incorrect. I have not misconstrued anything. It is you who changed your mind when challenged and mentioned something above which is missing in your posts. You can read your posts again in order to take your confusion out.

We are talking about Sikhi and you mentioned about Sikhs and some being rare which I contested and challenged you but you kept quiet about it for the reasons only known to you. Your posts have nothing to do with all the religions as you claim now.

But, anyway;it seems you change things when challenged about your proclamations and unfounded assumptions as they nitidly show in your posts.

If you can not respond and defend what you write, then it is better not to claim something that you can not back it up.

Let's move on because the idea of this forum is to learn from each other, not to get into any circular arguments.

Thanks & regards

Tejwant Singh
 
Aug 28, 2010
1,514
1,116
73
Prakash Singh ji,

Guru Fateh.



You are the one who claimed only rare Sikhs can have Ik Ong Kaar's grace, not me and now you are contradicting yourself.

I will be interested in knowing when did I make any such claim. as I always write EKANKAAR u/EKANKAAR.I dont find the pronunciation like ikongkar in Gurbani.

What is special about Sikhs is Sikhi, the universal message of Gurbani based on objective reality unlike other dogmatic religions who are based on subjective, self made truths like Hell and Heaven.

I understand SIKHi is related to GuR Vichaar.



Exactly my point which I mentioned in my last post. So, now you agree that all Sikhs are rare. I am glad you have changed your mind.



I beg to differ with you. No, they do not. Reading Gurbani is not enough. Studying Gurbani is the first step.

Understanding and grace are two different effects related to Gurbani.For understadning study is must but for grace not only reading just bowing before SGGS is enough.You may bnot agree to this .



What makes you say that about other Sikhs? Sikhi is the journey of the individual and each of us carry our own spiritual torch of Sikhi.

If it were so then Sikhs would not be trapped in SANtwad or DERA wad as in Punjab in India.I dont know about abroad.SIKHS are rare only when connected to SGGS only.

I am sorry, I did not understand what you are trying to convey. Understanding of what are you talking about? Can you please elaborate with the help of Gurbani from Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji, our only Guru?

I shall be refering you some quotes about who can get the true meanings
as per Gurbani.

Thanks & regards

Tejwant Singh

PS: I checked the thread and did not see the response regarding the following post as you said you did respond to it. Am I missing something?
http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/sukhma...tml#post157456[/QUOTE
 
Aug 28, 2010
1,514
1,116
73
Prakash Singh ji,

Guru Fateh.



You are the one who claimed only rare Sikhs can have Ik Ong Kaar's grace, not me and now you are contradicting yourself.

I will be interested in knowing when did I make any such claim. as I always write EKANKAAR u/EKANKAAR.I dont find the pronunciation like ikongkar in Gurbani.

What is special about Sikhs is Sikhi, the universal message of Gurbani based on objective reality unlike other dogmatic religions who are based on subjective, self made truths like Hell and Heaven.

I understand SIKHi is related to GuR Vichaar.



Exactly my point which I mentioned in my last post. So, now you agree that all Sikhs are rare. I am glad you have changed your mind.



I beg to differ with you. No, they do not. Reading Gurbani is not enough. Studying Gurbani is the first step.

Understanding and grace are two different effects related to Gurbani.For understadning study is must but for grace not only reading just bowing before Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji is enough.You may bnot agree to this .



What makes you say that about other Sikhs? Sikhi is the journey of the individual and each of us carry our own spiritual torch of Sikhi.

If it were so then Sikhs would not be trapped in SANtwad or DERA wad as in Punjab in India.I dont know about abroad.SIKHS are rare only when connected to Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji only.

I am sorry, I did not understand what you are trying to convey. Understanding of what are you talking about? Can you please elaborate with the help of Gurbani from Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji, our only Guru?

I shall be refering you some quotes about who can get the true meanings
as per Gurbani.

Thanks & regards

Tejwant Singh

PS: I checked the thread and did not see the response regarding the following post as you said you did respond to it. Am I missing something?
http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/sukhma...tml#post157456[/QUOTE

TEJWANT SINGH Ji,
Last message removed as I directly answer to your questions.
Prakash.S.Bagga
 
Aug 28, 2010
1,514
1,116
73
Prakash.s.bagga ji thanks for your post. I am one for sure confused.


So prakash.s.bagga veer ji this happens at birth, the name ceremony of a child or the adoption of a non-sikh child by a Sikh family, marriage of a non-Sikh to a Sikh or when? I find this actually little disturbing.

Just out of curiosity I did a search at Srigranth.org for your description in the following,

http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/gurma...-god-sri-guru-granth-sahib-14.html#post157485

Very interesting numbers below in terms of occurrences of various terms/words,

ਹਰੀ ਨਾਮੁ 0
ਹਰਿ ਨਾਮੁ 691
ਰਾਮ ਨਾਮੁ 193
ਜਗਦੀਸ 77
ਗੁਰਮਤਿ 283
ਨਾਨਕ 5124
ਨਾਨਕ ਨਾਮੁ ਨਾਮਿ ਨਾਮ 366
Somehow I don't see the importance of what you say in your post! Can you please comment also in terms of gender of others as we know Guru Nanak Dev ji to be male and the name Guru Nanak is used in conjunction with

It should be important to know why the word HAREE is not written with the word NAAM .Here lies the answer in difference between NAMM and NAME.
The word HAREE is very much there in SGGS as NAME.



ੁ ਿ ਮੁਕਤਾ
Please help with the explanation. It will of course be very worthwhile as I only understand NAAMu to stand for "Name" or "Understanding".

There is no need to put NAAMu with a proper name! So I treat all occurrences of NAAMu with any name as to stand for "understanding" rather than a physical singular name. Please correct me or explain and help.
NAAMu is a collective Noun whereas NAME is a Common NOUN.This is what I can clarify at the moment.


Now this is another perplexing comment. So goes to the question/comment that Tejwant Singh ji had earlier in the thread. So a blind and deaf will have to get it through touching the Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji or touching someone who already has the grace. Please explain and help.

One can not even imagine How and What the CREATOR can do .GuR JOT(i) can do anything in any mysterious way.Is it not a mystry how GuR got transrferred from one GuRu to Another when both were present.?

Prakash.s.bagga ji if you imply that creator is in all, and saying it in another way, this I can relate to. As life itself can be considered a grace for all creation and everything else too.

This goes without sayi

If I agree with your assertions I feel like someone who is slipping down a slippery slope with no ability to brake.

Sat Sri Akal.

Prakash.S.Bagga
 

Ambarsaria

ੴ / Ik▫oaʼnkār
Writer
SPNer
Dec 21, 2010
3,387
5,690
Prakash.s.bagga veer ji thanks for your post.

I will honestly look into the following that you have stated,
prakash.s.bagga said:
It should be important to know why the word HAREE is not written with the word NAAM .Here lies the answer in difference between NAMM and NAME.
The word HAREE is very much there in Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji as NAME.

Just to be clear I assume you will reject the following per Mahan Kosh in your context,

ਹਰੀ[SIZE=-1] Mahan Kosh Encyclopedia[/SIZE] [SIZE=-0] ਵਿ- ਹਰਣ ਕੀਤੀ. ਦੂਰ ਕੀਤੀ. ਮਿਟਾਈ. "ਨਾਨਕ ਤਪਤ ਹਰੀ". (ਆਸਾ ਮਃ ੫)। (2) ਹਰਿਤ. ਸਬਜ਼. "ਹਰੀ ਨਾਹੀ ਨਹ ਡਡੁਰੀ". (ਸ੍ਰੀ ਮਃ ੫)। (3) {ਸੰਗ੍ਯਾ}. ਇੱਕ ਜੱਟ ਗੋਤ੍ਰ. ਦੇਖੋ, ਹਰੀ ਕੇ। (4) ਦੇਖੋ, ਹਰਿ। (5) ਸੰ. ਹ੍ਰੀ. ਲੱਜਾ. ਸ਼ਰਮ। (6) ਲਕ੍ਸ਼੍*ਮੀ. "ਹਰੀ ਬਿਸਨੁ ਲੇਖੇ". (ਰਾਮਾਵ) ਲਕ੍ਸ਼੍*ਮੀ ਨੇ ਰਾਮ ਨੂੰ ਵਿਸਨੁ ਜਾਣਿਆ. [/SIZE] [SIZE=-1]
Mahan Kosh data provided by Bhai Baljinder Singh (RaraSahib Wale); See http://www.ik13.com[/SIZE]
It is apparent ਹਰੀ is not just a name in Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji but a word used in many interpretations and meaning but you want to take it to mean the creator is named ਹਰੀ. It is mentioned about 49 times by itself as ਹਰੀ and at times not as a name as examples in Mahan Kosh discourse.

Do you believe there is specific power, description about
ਹਰੀ that is not in the creator defined in Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji? If so I will appreciate knowing so.

As you know,
ਹਰੀ isn't the only name mentioned in Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji as an illustration for creator. You yourself has mentioned the following previously,

ਹਰਿ ਨਾਮੁ
ਰਾਮ ਨਾਮੁ
ਜਗਦੀਸ
So are the above not equal to ਹਰੀ or lower than ਹਰੀ or higher than ਹਰੀ. I will appreciate clarification.

Thank you.
 
Aug 28, 2010
1,514
1,116
73
Prakash.s.bagga veer ji thanks for your post.

I will honestly look into the following that you have stated,


Just to be clear I assume you will reject the following per Mahan Kosh in your context,

It is apparent ਹਰੀ is not just a name in Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji but a word used in many interpretations and meaning but you want to take it to mean the creator is named ਹਰੀ. It is mentioned about 49 times by itself as ਹਰੀ and at times not as a name as examples in Mahan Kosh discourse.

Do you believe there is specific power, description about
ਹਰੀ that is not in the creator defined in Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji? If so I will appreciate knowing so.

As you know,
ਹਰੀ isn't the only name mentioned in Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji as an illustration for creator. You yourself has mentioned the following previously,

ਹਰਿ ਨਾਮੁ
ਰਾਮ ਨਾਮੁ
ਜਗਦੀਸ
So are the above not equal to ਹਰੀ or lower than ਹਰੀ or higher than ਹਰੀ. I will appreciate clarification.

Thank you.

AMBARSARIA Ji,
One thing I like most of you is your strong desire to go ahead.Sometimes you may appear to be harsh but I never mind this.
Now coming to the point the information given in MAHAN KOSH is not 100% trustworthy .In MAHAN KOSH the proper grammer of most of the words is missing.

Let us consider the word HARI,this word is with a matra of Biharee .The word is COLLECTIVE NOUN like the word GURoo.
{ALL THE WORDS WITH A VOWEL FOR CAPITAL A ,E,I,O,U are COLLECTIVE NOUNS}
So the word HARI and GuRoo are same.

HAR(i) NAAM(u).......Here the word HAR(i) is an Adjective and NAAMu is Noun so this is a Compound Word meaning OMNIPOTENT NAAMu.

RAAM NAAMu.......Here the word RAAM is an Adjective and NAAMu is Noun so this is a Compound word meaning OMNIPRESENT.

JAGDEES.........Since this word is without a matra of Aukad under its last letter S and the same word is there in SGGS ji as JAGDEES(u) with a matra of AUKAD under letter S.
So the word JAGDEES is NOUN(PLURAL) but Adjective for the CREATOR meaning Iswar of Jagat.

This is my understanding as per grammer of the words.

One thing I have always been telling that in Gurbani there is Nothing Above GuRoo-GuRu-GuR we have to understand this.
Any reference word NOUNor ADJECTIVE is either for GuRoo or for GuRu or For GuR.
In Gurbanee GuR JoT(i) being as EKANKAARu is the highest level of all the reference s.And the structure of GuR JOt(I) is based on the inter-relationship between the words GuRoo/GuRu/and GuR.
Prakash.S.Bagga
 

Tejwant Singh

Mentor
Writer
SPNer
Jun 30, 2004
5,024
7,183
Henderson, NV.
Prakash Singh ji,

Guru Fateh

Raam is an adjective and it means omnipresent but Hari means omnipotent? How did you come to these conclusions of the meanings Prakash Singh ji?

Arn't both the attributes of Ik Ong Kaar.( Please do not argue or dispute how I pronounce Ik Ong Kaar and how you do and that is not the point which you also try to deviate to when asked about your claim of rare Sikhs, but you changed the subject when challenged about your claim).

Please quote other Gurbani verses to make your point about which words are used as omnipotent Ik ong Kaar and omnipresent Ik Ong Kaar and why?

According to my understanding, the Siharis in both make them nouns with prepositions, not adjectives as discussed before.

Thanks & regards

Tejwant Singh.
 
Last edited:

BhagatSingh

SPNer
Apr 24, 2006
2,921
1,657
Prakash ji,
One thing I like most of you is your strong desire to go ahead.Sometimes you may appear to be harsh but I never mind this.
Haha I second that. I like how immediately Ambarsaria ji picks up the initiative and starts threads or even starts giving his thoughts on a particular shabad.

HAR(i) NAAM(u).......Here the word HAR(i) is an Adjective and NAAMu is Noun so this is a Compound Word meaning OMNIPOTENT NAAMu
I don't think ਹਰਿ is an adjective, meaning it does not describe the word after it. Like Tejwant Singh ji said it is means "of Har", like ਭਗਤਿ means "of Bhagat".

Look at these Tuks. I think Har(i) Naam and Ram(i) Naam mean Har's Naam and Ram's Naam. What do you think?
Let's study the parts in bold. I have numbered them for convenience.

From page 10

ਰਾਗੁ ਗੂਜਰੀ ਮਹਲਾ ੪ ॥
रागु गूजरी महला ४ ॥
Rāg gūjrī mėhlā 4.
Raag Goojaree, Fourth Mehl:

ਹਰਿ ਕੇ ਜਨ1 ਸਤਿਗੁਰ ਸਤਪੁਰਖਾ ਬਿਨਉ ਕਰਉ ਗੁਰ ਪਾਸਿ ॥
हरि के जन सतिगुर सतपुरखा बिनउ करउ गुर पासि ॥
Har ke jan saṯgur saṯpurkẖā bina▫o kara▫o gur pās.
O humble servant of the Lord, O True Guru, O True Primal Being: I offer my humble prayer to You, O Guru.

ਹਮ ਕੀਰੇ ਕਿਰਮ ਸਤਿਗੁਰ ਸਰਣਾਈ ਕਰਿ ਦਇਆ ਨਾਮੁ ਪਰਗਾਸਿ ॥੧॥
हम कीरे किरम सतिगुर सरणाई करि दइआ नामु परगासि ॥१॥
Ham kīre kiram saṯgur sarṇā▫ī kar ḏa▫i▫ā nām pargās. ||1||
I am a mere insect, a worm. O True Guru, I seek Your Sanctuary. Please be merciful, and bless me with the Light of the Naam, the Name of the Lord. ||1||

ਮੇਰੇ ਮੀਤ ਗੁਰਦੇਵ ਮੋ ਕਉ ਰਾਮ ਨਾਮੁ2 ਪਰਗਾਸਿ ॥
मेरे मीत गुरदेव मो कउ राम नामु परगासि ॥
Mere mīṯ gurḏev mo ka▫o rām nām pargās.
O my Best Friend, O Divine Guru, please enlighten me with the Name of the Lord.

ਗੁਰਮਤਿ ਨਾਮੁ ਮੇਰਾ ਪ੍ਰਾਨ ਸਖਾਈ ਹਰਿ ਕੀਰਤਿ3 ਹਮਰੀ ਰਹਰਾਸਿ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥
गुरमति नामु मेरा प्रान सखाई हरि कीरति हमरी रहरासि ॥१॥ रहाउ ॥
Gurmaṯ nām merā parān sakẖā▫ī har kīraṯ hamrī rahrās. ||1|| rahā▫o.
Through the Guru's Teachings, the Naam is my breath of life. The Kirtan of the Lord's Praise is my life's occupation. ||1||Pause||

ਹਰਿ ਜਨ4 ਕੇ ਵਡ ਭਾਗ ਵਡੇਰੇ ਜਿਨ ਹਰਿ ਹਰਿ ਸਰਧਾ ਹਰਿ ਪਿਆਸ5
हरि जन के वड भाग वडेरे जिन हरि हरि सरधा हरि पिआस ॥
Har jan ke vad bẖāg vadere jin har har sarḏẖā har pi▫ās.
The servants of the Lord have the greatest good fortune; they have faith in the Lord, and a longing for the Lord.

ਹਰਿ ਹਰਿ ਨਾਮੁ 6 ਮਿਲੈ ਤ੍ਰਿਪਤਾਸਹਿ ਮਿਲਿ ਸੰਗਤਿ ਗੁਣ ਪਰਗਾਸਿ ॥੨॥
हरि हरि नामु मिलै त्रिपतासहि मिलि संगति गुण परगासि ॥२॥
Har har nām milai ṯaripṯāsahi mil sangaṯ guṇ pargās. ||2||
Obtaining the Name of the Lord, Har, Har, they are satisfied; joining the Sangat, the Blessed Congregation, their virtues shine forth. ||2||

ਜਿਨ ਹਰਿ ਹਰਿ ਹਰਿ ਰਸੁ7 ਨਾਮੁ ਨ ਪਾਇਆ ਤੇ ਭਾਗਹੀਣ ਜਮ ਪਾਸਿ ॥
जिन हरि हरि हरि रसु नामु न पाइआ ते भागहीण जम पासि ॥
Jin har har har ras nām na pā▫i▫ā ṯe bẖāghīṇ jam pās.
Those who have not obtained the Sublime Essence of the Name of the Lord, Har, Har, Har, are most unfortunate; they are led away by the Messenger of Death.

ਜੋ ਸਤਿਗੁਰ ਸਰਣਿ ਸੰਗਤਿ ਨਹੀ ਆਏ ਧ੍ਰਿਗੁ ਜੀਵੇ ਧ੍ਰਿਗੁ ਜੀਵਾਸਿ ॥੩॥
जो सतिगुर सरणि संगति नही आए ध्रिगु जीवे ध्रिगु जीवासि ॥३॥
Jo saṯgur saraṇ sangaṯ nahī ā▫e ḏẖarig jīve ḏẖarig jīvās. ||3||
Those who have not sought the Sanctuary of the True Guru and the Sangat, the Holy Congregation; cursed are their lives, and cursed are their hopes of life. ||3||

ਜਿਨ ਹਰਿ ਜ8 ਨ ਸਤਿਗੁਰ ਸੰਗਤਿ ਪਾਈ ਤਿਨ ਧੁਰਿ ਮਸਤਕਿ ਲਿਖਿਆ ਲਿਖਾਸਿ ॥
जिन हरि जन सतिगुर संगति पाई तिन धुरि मसतकि लिखिआ लिखासि ॥
Jin har jan saṯgur sangaṯ pā▫ī ṯin ḏẖur masṯak likẖi▫ā likẖās.
Those humble servants of the Lord who have attained the Company of the True Guru, have such pre-ordained destiny inscribed on their foreheads.

ਧਨੁ ਧੰਨੁ ਸਤਸੰਗਤਿ ਜਿਤੁ ਹਰਿ ਰਸੁ9 ਪਾਇਆ ਮਿਲਿ ਜਨ ਨਾਨਕ ਨਾਮੁ ਪਰਗਾਸਿ ॥੪॥੪॥
धनु धंनु सतसंगति जितु हरि रसु पाइआ मिलि जन नानक नामु परगासि ॥४॥४॥
Ḏẖan ḏẖan saṯsangaṯ jiṯ har ras pā▫i▫ā mil jan Nānak nām pargās. ||4||4||
Blessed, blessed is the Sat Sangat, the True Congregation, where the Lord's Essence is obtained. Meeting with His humble servant, O Guru Nanak, the Light of the Naam shines forth. ||4||4||


On Raam Naam

ਗਉੜੀ ਮਹਲਾ ੧ ॥
गउड़ी महला १ ॥
Ga▫oṛī mėhlā 1.
Gauree, First Mehl:

ਰਾਮਿ ਨਾਮਿ10 ਚਿਤੁ ਰਾਪੈ ਜਾ ਕਾ ॥
रामि नामि चितु रापै जा का ॥
Rām nām cẖiṯ rāpai jā kā.
One whose consciousness is permeated with the Lord's Name -

ਉਪਜੰਪਿ ਦਰਸਨੁ ਕੀਜੈ ਤਾ ਕਾ ॥੧॥
उपज्मपि दरसनु कीजै ता का ॥१॥
Upjamp ḏarsan kījai ṯā kā. ||1||
receive the blessing of his darshan in the early light of dawn. ||1||

ਰਾਮ11 ਨ ਜਪਹੁ ਅਭਾਗੁ ਤੁਮਾਰਾ ॥
राम न जपहु अभागु तुमारा ॥
Rām na japahu abẖāg ṯumārā.
If you do not meditate on the Lord, it is your own misfortune.

ਜੁਗਿ ਜੁਗਿ ਦਾਤਾ ਪ੍ਰਭੁ ਰਾਮੁ12 ਹਮਾਰਾ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥
जुगि जुगि दाता प्रभु रामु हमारा ॥१॥ रहाउ ॥
Jug jug ḏāṯā parabẖ rām hamārā. ||1|| rahā▫o.
In each and every age, the Great Giver is my Lord God. ||1||Pause||

ਗੁਰਮਤਿ ਰਾਮੁ13 ਜਪੈ ਜਨੁ ਪੂਰਾ ॥
गुरमति रामु जपै जनु पूरा ॥
Gurmaṯ rām japai jan pūrā.
Following the Guru's Teachings, the perfect humble beings meditate on the Lord.

ਤਿਤੁ ਘਟ ਅਨਹਤ ਬਾਜੇ ਤੂਰਾ ॥੨॥
तितु घट अनहत बाजे तूरा ॥२॥
Ŧiṯ gẖat anhaṯ bāje ṯūrā. ||2||
Within their hearts, the unstruck melody vibrates. ||2||

ਜੋ ਜਨ ਰਾਮ ਭਗਤਿ14 ਹਰਿ ਪਿਆਰਿ15
जो जन राम भगति हरि पिआरि ॥
Jo jan rām bẖagaṯ har pi▫ār.
Those who worship the Lord and love the Lord -

ਸੇ ਪ੍ਰਭਿ ਰਾਖੇ ਕਿਰਪਾ ਧਾਰਿ ॥੩॥
से प्रभि राखे किरपा धारि ॥३॥
Se parabẖ rākẖe kirpā ḏẖār. ||3||
showering His Mercy, God protects them. ||3||

ਜਿਨ ਕੈ ਹਿਰਦੈ ਹਰਿ ਹਰਿ ਸੋਈ16
जिन कै हिरदै हरि हरि सोई ॥
Jin kai hirḏai har har so▫ī.
Those whose hearts are filled with the Lord, Har, Har -

ਤਿਨ ਕਾ ਦਰਸੁ ਪਰਸਿ ਸੁਖੁ ਹੋਈ ॥੪॥
तिन का दरसु परसि सुखु होई ॥४॥
Ŧin kā ḏaras paras sukẖ ho▫ī. ||4||
gazing upon the blessed vision of their darshan, peace is obtained. ||4||

ਸਰਬ ਜੀਆ ਮਹਿ ਏਕੋ ਰਵੈ ॥
सरब जीआ महि एको रवै ॥
Sarab jī▫ā mėh eko ravai.
Among all beings, the One Lord is pervading.

ਮਨਮੁਖਿ ਅਹੰਕਾਰੀ ਫਿਰਿ ਜੂਨੀ ਭਵੈ ॥੫॥
मनमुखि अहंकारी फिरि जूनी भवै ॥५॥
Manmukẖ ahaʼnkārī fir jūnī bẖavai. ||5||
The egotistical, self-willed manmukhs wander in reincarnation. ||5||

ਸੋ ਬੂਝੈ ਜੋ ਸਤਿਗੁਰੁ ਪਾਏ ॥
सो बूझै जो सतिगुरु पाए ॥
So būjẖai jo saṯgur pā▫e.
They alone understand, who have found the True Guru.

ਹਉਮੈ ਮਾਰੇ ਗੁਰ ਸਬਦੇ ਪਾਏ ॥੬॥
हउमै मारे गुर सबदे पाए ॥६॥
Ha▫umai māre gur sabḏe pā▫e. ||6||
Subduing their ego, they receive the Word of the Guru's Shabad. ||6||

ਅਰਧ ਉਰਧ ਕੀ ਸੰਧਿ ਕਿਉ ਜਾਨੈ ॥
अरध उरध की संधि किउ जानै ॥
Araḏẖ uraḏẖ kī sanḏẖ ki▫o jānai.
How can anyone know of the Union between the being below and the Supreme Being above?

ਗੁਰਮੁਖਿ ਸੰਧਿ ਮਿਲੈ ਮਨੁ ਮਾਨੈ ॥੭॥
गुरमुखि संधि मिलै मनु मानै ॥७॥
Gurmukẖ sanḏẖ milai man mānai. ||7||
The Gurmukhs obtain this Union; their minds are reconciliated. ||7||

ਹਮ ਪਾਪੀ ਨਿਰਗੁਣ ਕਉ ਗੁਣੁ ਕਰੀਐ ॥
हम पापी निरगुण कउ गुणु करीऐ ॥
Ham pāpī nirguṇ ka▫o guṇ karī▫ai.
I am a worthless sinner, without merit. What merit do I have?

ਪ੍ਰਭ ਹੋਇ ਦਇਆਲੁ ਨਾਨਕ ਜਨ ਤਰੀਐ ॥੮॥੧੬॥
प्रभ होइ दइआलु नानक जन तरीऐ ॥८॥१६॥
Parabẖ ho▫e ḏa▫i▫āl Nānak jan ṯarī▫ai. ||8||16||
When God showers His Mercy, servant Guru Nanak is emancipated. ||8||16||

ਸੋਲਹ ਅਸਟਪਦੀਆ ਗੁਆਰੇਰੀ ਗਉੜੀ ਕੀਆ ॥
सोलह असटपदीआ गुआरेरी गउड़ी कीआ ॥
Solah asatpaḏī▫ā gu▫ārerī ga▫oṛī kī▫ā.
Sixteen Ashtapadees Of Gwaarayree Gauree||
Page 228
 
Aug 28, 2010
1,514
1,116
73
Prakash Singh ji,

Guru Fateh

Raam is an adjective and it means omnipresent but Hari means omnipotent? How did you come to these conclusions of the meanings Prakash Singh ji?

Arn't both the attributes of Ik Ong Kaar.( Please do not argue or dispute how I pronounce Ik Ong Kaar and how you do and that is not the point which you also try to deviate to when asked about your claim of rare Sikhs, but you changed the subject when challenged about your claim).

Please quote other Gurbani verses to make your point about which words are used as omnipotent Ik ong Kaar and omnipresent Ik Ong Kaar and why?

According to my understanding, the Siharis in both make them nouns with prepositions, not adjectives as discussed before.

Thanks & regards

Tejwant Singh.

It is equally important for me to know how Ik Ong Kaar pronunciation you have accepted .and the source for such pronunciation.It is quite possible I may not be knowing.

All attributes are Adjectives andor Nouns .All attributes have proper meanings .Since the words of attributes are from Sanskrit language You can refer any Sanskrit Dictionary to get the meaning of respective attribute.

I would like to bring to your kind notice that as per definition "Preposition"
is a word that governs a Nounor Pronoun expressing a relation to another word.Therefore it should be a separate word pre-positioned with noun.

Gurbani grammer is very much different from normal grammer.Mostly we make use of normal grammer that is why we stuck up somewhere or the other.
Prakash.S.Bagga
 

Tejwant Singh

Mentor
Writer
SPNer
Jun 30, 2004
5,024
7,183
Henderson, NV.
It is equally important for me to know how Ik Ong Kaar pronunciation you have accepted .and the source for such pronunciation.It is quite possible I may not be knowing.

All attributes are Adjectives andor Nouns .All attributes have proper meanings .Since the words of attributes are from Sanskrit language You can refer any Sanskrit Dictionary to get the meaning of respective attribute.

I would like to bring to your kind notice that as per definition "Preposition"
is a word that governs a Nounor Pronoun expressing a relation to another word.Therefore it should be a separate word pre-positioned with noun.

Gurbani grammer is very much different from normal grammer.Mostly we make use of normal grammer that is why we stuck up somewhere or the other.
Prakash.S.Bagga

Prakash Singh ji,

Guru Fateh.

Nice try. You are using the same trick again. Rather than responding to my questions, you have twisted the thing about Ik Ong Kaar. Once again, it matters not how I or you write it. The important part is if we understand what it means.

Coming back to your post:

All attributes are Adjectives andor Nouns .All attributes have proper meanings .Since the words of attributes are from Sanskrit language You can refer any Sanskrit Dictionary to get the meaning of respective attribute.

I am sorry to disappoint you but attributes mean a quality which is an adjective not a noun which is a name no matter what language we are talking about. The only difference in Sanskrit and English about adjectives is that adjectives are used in the plural form in Sanskrit and all the other languages derived from it, unlike in English where they are used in a singular form. The same is true for the Latin and all the languages derived from it. The conjugation of the verbs in Sanskrit and the Latin are also exactly the same.

Hence an attribute is an adjective, not a noun as you incorrectly claimed above.

I would like to bring to your kind notice that as per definition "Preposition"is a word that governs a Nounor Pronoun expressing a relation to another word.Therefore it should be a separate word pre-positioned with noun.

Please give concrete examples of your claim from Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji, our only Guru for the above.

Yes, but that is not the case in the grammar used in Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji where Sihari is used as a preposition.

Gurbani grammer is very much different from normal grammer.Mostly we make use of normal grammer that is why we stuck up somewhere or the other.

Thanks, exactly my point above with which you agreed in the other thread.

Now, please respond to my original inquiry which I am re-posting it without deviating into something which is totally unrelated to it.

Originally Posted by Tejwant Singh
Prakash Singh ji,

Guru Fateh

Raam is an adjective and it means omnipresent but Hari means omnipotent? How did you come to these conclusions of the meanings Prakash Singh ji?

Aren't both the attributes of Ik Ong Kaar?(Please do not argue or dispute how I pronounce Ik Ong Kaar and how you do and that is not the point which you also try to deviate to when asked about your claim of rare Sikhs, but you changed the subject when challenged about your claim).

Please quote other Gurbani verses to make your point about which words are used as omnipotent Ik ong Kaar and omnipresent Ik Ong Kaar and why?

According to my understanding, the Siharis in both make them nouns with prepositions, not adjectives as discussed before.

Hope to learn from you more.

Regards

Tejwant singh
 
Last edited:

Ambarsaria

ੴ / Ik▫oaʼnkār
Writer
SPNer
Dec 21, 2010
3,387
5,690
Sorry spn sangat, I am getting little confused Let us review ਹਰਿ ਨਾਮੁ.
Without a question
ਨਾਮੁ stands for "understanding/knowledge".
As for as I can tell ਹਰਿ by itself stand for many meanings depending upon the other words it is used with. Its general usage conversion that I see is that it is "Of Har/Hari" which are again used in the context of "creator" and not a name wih defined qualities. The only item with defined qualities is the creator as per ੴ[/FONT]. As far as I can tell both these words (ਹਰਿ ਨਾਮੁ) are proper Punjabi and require no Sanskrit Grammar rules. Sanskrit at most is used in some special words which one needed to understand Sanskrit to understand meaning of. This is very well covered in Prof. Sahib Singh ji's Sri Guru Granth Darpan. I have yet to come across Sanskrit Grammar usage which violates Punjabi Grammar usage other than the parallels that Prof. Sahib Singh ji has clearly shown in his Vyakaaran.
Wasn't one of the ways Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji differentiated from then prevailing scriptures was that it shunned Sanskrit and secretes of its word structures and grammar structures not easily accessible to common folks. Thus making it for the people rather than the Brahmins and Sanskrit custodians and charlatans. Are we somehow trying to re-introduce this into understanding Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji so that it becomes for the elite again!

Perhaps worth revisiting the following thread,

http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/sikh-sikhi-sikhism/37161-sri-guru-granth-sahib-masses-elite.html

I would of course like to be corrected for my mistakes.

Sat Sri Akal.
 
Last edited:
Aug 28, 2010
1,514
1,116
73
According to my understanding, the Sihari in ਹਰਿ ਨਾਮੁ makes it a compound noun with a preposition, not an adjective as discussed before.[/QUOTE

There is no word like HAR (word without any Matra) in Gurbani.The word itself is HAR(i) (with a matra of sihari).
Had there been a word HAR then your point could be correct.
Prakash.S.Bagga
 

Tejwant Singh

Mentor
Writer
SPNer
Jun 30, 2004
5,024
7,183
Henderson, NV.
According to my understanding, the Sihari in ਹਰਿ ਨਾਮੁ makes it a compound noun with a preposition, not an adjective as discussed before.[/QUOTE

There is no word like HAR (word without any Matra) in Gurbani.The word itself is HAR(i) (with a matra of sihari).
Had there been a word HAR then your point could be correct.
Prakash.S.Bagga

Prakash Singh ji,

Guru Fateh.

I agree that Har is always with a matra. This is the reason my original question still stands on your claim,"Raam is an adjective and it means omnipresent but Hari means omnipotent". As you know that both omnipresent and omnipotent are adjectives. So, how can a compound noun ਹਰਿ ਨਾਮੁ become two adjectives? You never attempted to answer that,but used deviated tricks of other words instead, which is sad.

Prakash Singh ji, we are all Sikhs and this forum is for all to learn but one has to have an open mind and as a Sikh ready to admit when wrong.

This is going to be my last post on this subject with you because you seem adamant of being right even when proven wrong. We can move to something else that you claim to know more about so I can learn from you because I am always ready to learn. That is the reason I ask questions.

Here are the facts that contradict your claim.

ਹਰਿ ਨਾਮੁ is a compound noun with preposition as you would see below on page 28 of Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji, our only Guru. In fact not only ਹਰਿ ਨਾਮੁ but many other words like ਹਰਿ ਭਗਤਾ ਹਰਿ ਧਨੁ are all compound nouns with prepositions. Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji is filled with many more examples like these. Just search and learn from the Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji, our only Guru.


ਸਿਰੀਰਾਗੁ ਮਹਲਾ ੩ ॥ Page 28
Sirīrāg mėhlā 3.
Siree Raag, Third Mehl:

ਹਰਿ ਭਗਤਾ ਹਰਿ ਧਨੁ ਰਾਸਿ ਹੈ ਗੁਰ ਪੂਛਿ ਕਰਹਿ ਵਾਪਾਰੁ ॥
Har bẖagṯā har ḏẖan rās hai gur pūcẖẖ karahi vāpār.
The devotees of the Lord have the Wealth and Capital of the Lord; with Guru's Advice, they carry on their trade.
ਹਰਿ ਧਨੁ = ਪਰਮਾਤਮਾ (ਦਾ ਨਾਮ-ਰੂਪ) ਧਨ। ਰਾਸਿ = ਸਰਮਾਇਆ, ਪੂੰਜੀ। ਗੁਰ ਪੂਛਿ = ਗੁਰੂ ਦੀ ਸਿੱਖਿਆ ਲੈ ਕੇ।

ਪਰਮਾਤਮਾ ਦੀ ਭਗਤੀ ਕਰਨ ਵਾਲੇ ਬੰਦਿਆਂ ਪਾਸ ਪਰਮਾਤਮਾ ਦਾ ਨਾਮ ਹੀ ਧਨ ਹੈ ਨਾਮ ਹੀ ਸਰਮਾਇਆ ਹੈ, ਉਹ ਆਪਣੇ ਗੁਰੂ ਦੀ ਸਿੱਖਿਆ ਲੈ ਕੇ (ਨਾਮ ਦਾ ਹੀ) ਵਣਜ ਕਰਦੇ ਹਨ।

ਹਰਿ ਨਾਮੁ ਸਲਾਹਨਿ ਸਦਾ ਸਦਾ ਵਖਰੁ ਹਰਿ ਨਾਮੁ ਅਧਾਰੁ ॥
Har nām salāhan saḏā saḏā vakẖar har nām aḏẖār.
They praise the Name of the Lord forever and ever. The Name of the Lord is their Merchandise and Support.
ਸਲਾਹਨਿ = ਸਲਾਹੁੰਦੇ ਹਨ। ਵਖਰੁ = ਸੌਦਾ। ਅਧਾਰੁ = ਆਸਰਾ।

ਭਗਤ-ਜਨ ਸਦਾ ਪਰਮਾਤਮਾ ਦਾ ਨਾਮ ਸਲਾਹੁੰਦੇ ਹਨ, ਪਰਮਾਤਮਾ ਦਾ ਨਾਮ-ਵੱਖਰ ਹੀ ਉਹਨਾਂ ਦੇ ਜੀਵਨ ਦਾ ਆਸਰਾ ਹੈ
http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.gurbani?Action=Page&Param=28&g=1&h=0&r=1&t=1&p=0&k=1

Regards

Tejwant Singh

PS: I deliberately did not use the whole Shabad because I just wanted to show the compound nouns with HAR.
 
Last edited:
Aug 28, 2010
1,514
1,116
73
Prakash Singh ji,

Guru Fateh.

I agree that Har is always with a matra. This is the reason my original question still stands on your claim,"Raam is an adjective and it means omnipresent but Hari means omnipotent". As you know that both omnipresent and omnipotent are adjectives. So, how can a compound noun ਹਰਿ ਨਾਮੁ become two adjectives? You never attempted to answer that,but used deviated tricks of other words instead, which is sad.

RESPOSE: Here again you are making your own statement as mine .I never mentioned that HARi NAAMu becomes two adjectives.This is your own conclusion.


Prakash Singh ji, we are all Sikhs and this forum is for all to learn but one has to have an open mind and as a Sikh ready to admit when wrong.

RESPOSE> When I disagree to this?


This is going to be my last post on this subject with you because you seem adamant of being right even when proven wrong. We can move to something else that you claim to know more about so I can learn from you because I am always ready to learn. That is the reason I ask questions.

RESPONSE:..I can also refer you like that.You may or may not like to share with me choice is yours.

Here are the facts that contradict your claim.




ਹਰਿ ਨਾਮੁ is a compound noun with preposition as you would see below on page 28 of Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji, our only Guru. In fact not only ਹਰਿ ਨਾਮੁ but many other words like ਹਰਿ ਭਗਤਾ ਹਰਿ ਧਨੁ are all compound nouns with prepositions. Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji is filled with many more examples like these. Just search and learn from the Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji, our only Guru.

RESPONSE. I dont agree to this

ਸਿਰੀਰਾਗੁ ਮਹਲਾ ੩ ॥ Page 28
Sirīrāg mėhlā 3.
Siree Raag, Third Mehl:

ਹਰਿ ਭਗਤਾ ਹਰਿ ਧਨੁ ਰਾਸਿ ਹੈ ਗੁਰ ਪੂਛਿ ਕਰਹਿ ਵਾਪਾਰੁ ॥
Har bẖagṯā har ḏẖan rās hai gur pūcẖẖ karahi vāpār.
The devotees of the Lord have the Wealth and Capital of the Lord; with Guru's Advice, they carry on their trade.
ਹਰਿ ਧਨੁ = ਪਰਮਾਤਮਾ (ਦਾ ਨਾਮ-ਰੂਪ) ਧਨ। ਰਾਸਿ = ਸਰਮਾਇਆ, ਪੂੰਜੀ। ਗੁਰ ਪੂਛਿ = ਗੁਰੂ ਦੀ ਸਿੱਖਿਆ ਲੈ ਕੇ।

ਪਰਮਾਤਮਾ ਦੀ ਭਗਤੀ ਕਰਨ ਵਾਲੇ ਬੰਦਿਆਂ ਪਾਸ ਪਰਮਾਤਮਾ ਦਾ ਨਾਮ ਹੀ ਧਨ ਹੈ ਨਾਮ ਹੀ ਸਰਮਾਇਆ ਹੈ, ਉਹ ਆਪਣੇ ਗੁਰੂ ਦੀ ਸਿੱਖਿਆ ਲੈ ਕੇ (ਨਾਮ ਦਾ ਹੀ) ਵਣਜ ਕਰਦੇ ਹਨ।

ਹਰਿ ਨਾਮੁ ਸਲਾਹਨਿ ਸਦਾ ਸਦਾ ਵਖਰੁ ਹਰਿ ਨਾਮੁ ਅਧਾਰੁ ॥
Har nām salāhan saḏā saḏā vakẖar har nām aḏẖār.
They praise the Name of the Lord forever and ever. The Name of the Lord is their Merchandise and Support.
ਸਲਾਹਨਿ = ਸਲਾਹੁੰਦੇ ਹਨ। ਵਖਰੁ = ਸੌਦਾ। ਅਧਾਰੁ = ਆਸਰਾ।

ਭਗਤ-ਜਨ ਸਦਾ ਪਰਮਾਤਮਾ ਦਾ ਨਾਮ ਸਲਾਹੁੰਦੇ ਹਨ, ਪਰਮਾਤਮਾ ਦਾ ਨਾਮ-ਵੱਖਰ ਹੀ ਉਹਨਾਂ ਦੇ ਜੀਵਨ ਦਾ ਆਸਰਾ ਹੈ
http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.gurbani?Action=Page&Param=28&g=1&h=0&r=1&t=1&p=0&k=1

Regards

Tejwant Singh

PS: I deliberately did not use the whole Shabad because I just wanted to show the compound nouns with HAR.
.

I dont agree to the above translation as there is no reference PARMATAMAA in the whole of SGGS.

You are not clarifying your pronunciation IK Ong Kaar Which is not there in SGGS and you expect me toclarify everything which you would like of your own.
Disussion sharing is always a two way .process .
One way always leads to STALEMATE like this.
With regards
Prakash.S.Bagga
 
Aug 28, 2010
1,514
1,116
73
Prakash Singh ji,

Guru Fateh.

I agree that Har is always with a matra. This is the reason my original question still stands on your claim,"Raam is an adjective and it means omnipresent but Hari means omnipotent". As you know that both omnipresent and omnipotent are adjectives. So, how can a compound noun ਹਰਿ ਨਾਮੁ become two adjectives? You never attempted to answer that,but used deviated tricks of other words instead, which is sad.

RESPOSE: Here again you are making your own statement as mine .I never mentioned that HARi NAAMu becomes two adjectives.This is your own conclusion.


Prakash Singh ji, we are all Sikhs and this forum is for all to learn but one has to have an open mind and as a Sikh ready to admit when wrong.

RESPOSE> When I disagree to this?


This is going to be my last post on this subject with you because you seem adamant of being right even when proven wrong. We can move to something else that you claim to know more about so I can learn from you because I am always ready to learn. That is the reason I ask questions.

RESPONSE:..I can also refer you like that.You may or may not like to share with me choice is yours.

Here are the facts that contradict your claim.




ਹਰਿ ਨਾਮੁ is a compound noun with preposition as you would see below on page 28 of Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji, our only Guru. In fact not only ਹਰਿ ਨਾਮੁ but many other words like ਹਰਿ ਭਗਤਾ ਹਰਿ ਧਨੁ are all compound nouns with prepositions. Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji is filled with many more examples like these. Just search and learn from the Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji, our only Guru.

RESPONSE. I dont agree to this

ਸਿਰੀਰਾਗੁ ਮਹਲਾ ੩ ॥ Page 28
Sirīrāg mėhlā 3.
Siree Raag, Third Mehl:

ਹਰਿ ਭਗਤਾ ਹਰਿ ਧਨੁ ਰਾਸਿ ਹੈ ਗੁਰ ਪੂਛਿ ਕਰਹਿ ਵਾਪਾਰੁ ॥
Har bẖagṯā har ḏẖan rās hai gur pūcẖẖ karahi vāpār.
The devotees of the Lord have the Wealth and Capital of the Lord; with Guru's Advice, they carry on their trade.
ਹਰਿ ਧਨੁ = ਪਰਮਾਤਮਾ (ਦਾ ਨਾਮ-ਰੂਪ) ਧਨ। ਰਾਸਿ = ਸਰਮਾਇਆ, ਪੂੰਜੀ। ਗੁਰ ਪੂਛਿ = ਗੁਰੂ ਦੀ ਸਿੱਖਿਆ ਲੈ ਕੇ।

ਪਰਮਾਤਮਾ ਦੀ ਭਗਤੀ ਕਰਨ ਵਾਲੇ ਬੰਦਿਆਂ ਪਾਸ ਪਰਮਾਤਮਾ ਦਾ ਨਾਮ ਹੀ ਧਨ ਹੈ ਨਾਮ ਹੀ ਸਰਮਾਇਆ ਹੈ, ਉਹ ਆਪਣੇ ਗੁਰੂ ਦੀ ਸਿੱਖਿਆ ਲੈ ਕੇ (ਨਾਮ ਦਾ ਹੀ) ਵਣਜ ਕਰਦੇ ਹਨ।

ਹਰਿ ਨਾਮੁ ਸਲਾਹਨਿ ਸਦਾ ਸਦਾ ਵਖਰੁ ਹਰਿ ਨਾਮੁ ਅਧਾਰੁ ॥
Har nām salāhan saḏā saḏā vakẖar har nām aḏẖār.
They praise the Name of the Lord forever and ever. The Name of the Lord is their Merchandise and Support.
ਸਲਾਹਨਿ = ਸਲਾਹੁੰਦੇ ਹਨ। ਵਖਰੁ = ਸੌਦਾ। ਅਧਾਰੁ = ਆਸਰਾ।

ਭਗਤ-ਜਨ ਸਦਾ ਪਰਮਾਤਮਾ ਦਾ ਨਾਮ ਸਲਾਹੁੰਦੇ ਹਨ, ਪਰਮਾਤਮਾ ਦਾ ਨਾਮ-ਵੱਖਰ ਹੀ ਉਹਨਾਂ ਦੇ ਜੀਵਨ ਦਾ ਆਸਰਾ ਹੈ
http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.gurbani?Action=Page&Param=28&g=1&h=0&r=1&t=1&p=0&k=1

Regards

Tejwant Singh

PS: I deliberately did not use the whole Shabad because I just wanted to show the compound nouns with HAR.
.

I dont agree to the above translation as there is no reference PARMATAMAA in the whole of Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji.

You are not clarifying your pronunciation IK Ong Kaar Which is not there in Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji and you expect me toclarify everything which you would like of your own.
Disussion sharing is always a two way .process .
One way always leads to STALEMATE like this.
With regards
Prakash.S.Bagga
 

Tejwant Singh

Mentor
Writer
SPNer
Jun 30, 2004
5,024
7,183
Henderson, NV.
.

I dont agree to the above translation as there is no reference PARMATAMAA in the whole of Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji.

You are not clarifying your pronunciation IK Ong Kaar Which is not there in Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji and you expect me toclarify everything which you would like of your own.
Disussion sharing is always a two way .process .
One way always leads to STALEMATE like this.
With regards
Prakash.S.Bagga

Prakash Singh ji,

Guru Fateh.

You are using the same old tricks from your bag which have not worked and will not work in Sikhi. Our loooong discussion has been about the compound nouns with prepositions which you concocted as adjectives from your trickery bag. The same trickery bag also had TRANSITIVE NOUN hidden somewhere but for some reason when challenged, you are not able to take it out because it does not exist and you know it although you are in denial.

The Punjabi and English translations given from page 28 and btw, this is just one example from the Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji, our only Guru, and the Punjabi translation is by esteemed Prof. Sahib Singh whom you mentioned in the other thread for me to look for.

But now, your bag of tricks has pulled out PARMATAMAA which has nothing to do with the prepositions in compound nouns-our original discussion- as shown in both translations.

Nice try though.

As a Sikh, I like to learn from all and I have learnt a lot from you but please stop playing these tricks because they do not work.

If and when you want to talk about other subjects even PARMATAMAA, I am open to it but whenever you want to talk about grammar in the future, please use the Shabads from the SGGS rather than tricks from your bag.

Thanks & regards

Tejwant Singh
 
📌 For all latest updates, follow the Official Sikh Philosophy Network Whatsapp Channel:

Latest Activity

Top