Creator /God ਦਾਤਾ/ਰੱਬ In Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji Is Masculine Or Feminine And What Is The Significa

[prakash.s.bagga]

Prakash Singh ji,

Guru Fateh.

You are using the same old tricks from your bag which have not worked and will not work in Sikhi. Our loooong discussion has been about the compound nouns with prepositions which you concocted as adjectives from your trickery bag. The same trickery bag also had TRANSITIVE NOUN hidden somewhere but for some reason when challenged, you are not able to take it out because it does not exist and you know it although you are in denial.

The Punjabi and English translations given from page 28 and btw, this is just one example from the Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji, our only Guru, and the Punjabi translation is by esteemed Prof. Sahib Singh whom you mentioned in the other thread for me to look for.

But now, your bag of tricks has pulled out PARMATAMAA which has nothing to do with the prepositions in compound nouns-our original discussion- as shown in both translations.

Nice try though.

As a Sikh, I like to learn from all and I have learnt a lot from you but please stop playing these tricks because they do not work.

If and when you want to talk about other subjects even PARMATAMAA, I am open to it but whenever you want to talk about grammar in the future, please use the Shabads from the Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji rather than tricks from your bag.

Thanks & regards

Tejwant Singh

There are no triks I can play.I cant help if you form any opinion of your own.
Anyway,you can refer Gurbani grammer book by Prof Sahib Singh ji .
At pp 386-387 there are several words with a matra of sihari being refered as NOUN and all these words are there in Gurbani. Now you can tell me you
what type of NOUN such words can be considered.I do admit I am weak in my eng lish vocabulary.
With regards
Prakash.S.Bagga

 

[Tejwant Singh]

Anyway,you can refer Gurbani grammer book by Prof Sahib Singh ji .
At pp 386-387 there are several words with a matra of sihari being refered as NOUN and all these words are there in Gurbani. Now you can tell me you
what type of NOUN such words can be considered.I do admit I am weak in my eng lish vocabulary.
With regards
Prakash.S.Bagga

Prakash Singh ji,

Guru Fateh.

Please use Shabads from Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji, our only Guru, to prove your point as requested before. I would like you to explain what parts of grammar in the words of the Shabads are and why they are used in that manner.

The whole idea of learning is to understand the Shabad and put the message into practice and that can only happen if you start quoting and explaining the whole Shabads with your grammar expertise.

You can teach us a lot like that.

Thanks for your help. Much appreciated.


Regards

Tejwant Singh

PS: The word PARMATAMAA is not used by me but by esteemed Prof. Sahib Singh ji, the one you also base your grammar on, in the Shabads I posted to clarify the grammar.

 

[prakash.s.bagga]

Prakash Singh ji,

Guru Fateh.

Please use Shabads from Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji, our only Guru, to prove your point as requested before. I would like you to explain what parts of grammar in the words of the Shabads are and why they are used in that manner.

The whole idea of learning is to understand the Shabad and put the message into practice and that can only happen if you start quoting and explaining the whole Shabads with your grammar expertise.

You can teach us a lot like that.

Thanks for your help. Much appreciated.


Regards

Tejwant Singh

PS: The word PARMATAMAA is not used by me but by esteemed Prof. Sahib Singh ji, the one you also base your grammar on, in the Shabads I posted to clarify the grammar.

Thak you for your positive response,I shall try to do that for mutual clarification.
I am not based on Prof Sahib Singhsji grammer alone and I disagree with the use of his word Parmatamaa in Gurbani.
My grammer considerations are mostly from the pattern of SANSKRIT grammer which I studied in my school levlel.We are unable recognise how sanskrit grammer is applicable to Gurbani words but it is very much there.I personally verified this pattern of grammer when applied the results are very much different.
There are differences in understanding because of this fact only.

Prakash.S.Bagga

 

[Scarlet Pimpernel]

Veer Jio I thought God can only be found through Grace ,if you think you can find him through Grammar then that's very interesting.

 

[Tejwant Singh]

Veer Jio I thought God can only be found through Grace ,if you think you can find him through Grammar then that's very interesting.

Sp ji,

Guru Fateh.

Ik Ong Kaar is omnipresent hence no need to find The Source that is not hiding anywhere but rather present everywhere. So, in other words, we are all surrounded by the Grace of Ik Ong Kaar as long as we are not just looking for the low hanging fruits.

Grammar is for us to understand the message of our Gurus given to us in Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji, our only Guru, so it can be practiced in our lives which will make our lives and others', whom we get in contact with better.

Regards

Tejwant SIngh

 

[Ambarsaria]

Veer Jio I thought God can only be found through Grace ,if you think you can find him through Grammar then that's very interesting.

SP ji there is nothing or no one hiding behind the door with a shining circle around their head, body or persona to find and say I am done.

The word perhaps is understand as much all around and in each as all shows intrinsically or extrinsically just ears to here, eyes to see and all senses according their function and mind/heart to be so tuned of self. Some will be easy and other will need some doing.

Sat Sri Akal.

 

[Scarlet Pimpernel]

Veer Jio's

You believe in Sikhi alone , I believe in God alone, perhaps I'm mistaken in my logic but I see God in my door.

 

[Ambarsaria]

Veer Jio's

You believe in Sikhi alone , I believe in God alone, perhaps I'm mistaken in my logic but I see God in my door.

wahmundawahmundawahmunda

Show me your feet I want to touch them and be the dust below such.

I tend to understand creator everywhere not completely yet but mostly. Challenge now is living it.

Sat Sri Akal.

 

[ravneet_sb]

Sat Sri Akaal,

Sat Guru Ki Seva Safal Hai,
Je Ko Kare Chit Layee.

It appears from your post
Your efforts to seek "GURU's BANI" are fruit full to yourself, and bringing realization.

Shabad is exposed and not hidden. Creating Anand (Bliss State).
Enjoying Naam Ras


One shabad understanding show way how to read/recite
and
makes all shabad exposed

WaheGuru Ji Ka Khalsa
Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh

 

[prakash.s.bagga]

Sat Sri Akaal,

Sat Guru Ki Seva Safal Hai,
Je Ko Kare Chit Layee.

It appears from your post
Your efforts to seek "GURU's BANI" are fruit full to yourself, and bringing realization.

Shabad is exposed and not hidden. Creating Anand (Bliss State).
Enjoying Naam Ras


One shabad understanding show way how to read/recite
and
makes all shabad exposed

WaheGuru Ji Ka Khalsa
Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh

Isn"t it important to know who is Sat Guru and How Sewa is required to be performed?
Prakash.S.Bagga

 

[Scarlet Pimpernel]

Veer Ji perhaps in true love everything is acquired naturally,so then there is no need to ask what is required or what to perform .Let us together throw away all cleverness and with Sat Guru's Grace may we play the game of the the Saints ,let us enter the house of love.
The Prayer - Andrea Bocelli & Josh Groban - YouTube

 

[ravneet_sb]

As

Ambarsaria Ji is doing,

with total devotion in understanding "Sukhmani"

"Satguru" is "True Guide"

Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa
Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh

 

[prakash.s.bagga]

ਸੂਹੀ ਮਹਲਾ ੫ ॥


सूही महला ५ ॥

Sūhī mėhlā 5.

Soohee, Fifth Mehl:


ਦਰਸਨੁ ਦੇਖਿ ਜੀਵਾ ਗੁਰ ਤੇਰਾ ॥


दरसनु देखि जीवा गुर तेरा ॥

Ḏarsan ḏekẖ jīvā gur ṯerā.

Gazing upon the Blessed Vision of Your Darshan, I live.


ਪੂਰਨ ਕਰਮੁ ਹੋਇ ਪ੍ਰਭ ਮੇਰਾ ॥੧॥


पूरन करमु होइ प्रभ मेरा ॥१॥

Pūran karam ho▫e parabẖ merā. ||1||

My karma is perfect, O my God. ||1||


ਇਹ ਬੇਨੰਤੀ ਸੁਣਿ ਪ੍ਰਭ ਮੇਰੇ ॥


इह बेनंती सुणि प्रभ मेरे ॥

Ih benanṯī suṇ parabẖ mere.

Please, listen to this prayer, O my God.


ਦੇਹਿ ਨਾਮੁ ਕਰਿ ਅਪਣੇ ਚੇਰੇ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥


देहि नामु करि अपणे चेरे ॥१॥ रहाउ ॥

Ḏėh nām kar apṇe cẖere. ||1|| rahā▫o.

Please bless me with Your Name, and make me Your chaylaa, Your disciple. ||1||Pause||


TEJWANT SINGH Ji, This SABAD is related to the word GuR and Prabh.
My Understanding is as under

O GuR,I may live by seeing your DARSAN(Blessaed Vision)

My Action becomes perfect ,O Ultimate Lord.

My Ultimate Lord ,Listen to this prayer of mine

By giving NAAMu ,Make your Desciple. Rahaa-u

On hearing your views I shall complete the balance understanding.

With regards

Prakash.S.Bagga

 

[Ambarsaria]

ਸੂਹੀ ਮਹਲਾ ੫ ॥


सूही महला ५ ॥

Sūhī mėhlā 5.

Soohee, Fifth Mehl:


ਦਰਸਨੁ ਦੇਖਿ ਜੀਵਾ ਗੁਰ ਤੇਰਾ ॥


दरसनु देखि जीवा गुर तेरा ॥

Ḏarsan ḏekẖ jīvā gur ṯerā.

Gazing upon the Blessed Vision of Your Darshan, I live.


ਪੂਰਨ ਕਰਮੁ ਹੋਇ ਪ੍ਰਭ ਮੇਰਾ ॥੧॥


पूरन करमु होइ प्रभ मेरा ॥१॥

Pūran karam ho▫e parabẖ merā. ||1||

My karma is perfect, O my God. ||1||


ਇਹ ਬੇਨੰਤੀ ਸੁਣਿ ਪ੍ਰਭ ਮੇਰੇ ॥


इह बेनंती सुणि प्रभ मेरे ॥

Ih benanṯī suṇ parabẖ mere.

Please, listen to this prayer, O my God.


ਦੇਹਿ ਨਾਮੁ ਕਰਿ ਅਪਣੇ ਚੇਰੇ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥


देहि नामु करि अपणे चेरे ॥१॥ रहाउ ॥

Ḏėh nām kar apṇe cẖere. ||1|| rahā▫o.

Please bless me with Your Name, and make me Your chaylaa, Your disciple. ||1||Pause||


TEJWANT SINGH Ji, This SABAD is related to the word GuR and Prabh.
My Understanding is as under

O GuR, (1) I may live by seeing your DARSAN(Blessaed Vision)

My Action becomes perfect ,O Ultimate Lord.

My Ultimate Lord ,Listen to this prayer of mine

By giving NAAMu (2) ,Make your Desciple. Rahaa-u

On hearing your views I shall complete the balance understanding.

With regards

Prakash.S.Bagga

Prakash.S.Bagga ji thanks for your post.

Couple of questions for clarification,

(1). Is Gur used by you ੴ[/FONT]
(2) Do you mean by NAAMu to be ਗਿਆਨ/ (Knowledge, understanding, insight)

Thank you.

Sat Sri Akal.

 

[prakash.s.bagga]

Prakash.S.Bagga ji thanks for your post.

Couple of questions for clarification,

(1). Is Gur used by you ੴ[/FONT]
(2) Do you mean by NAAMu to be ਗਿਆਨ/ (Knowledge, understanding, insight)

Thank you.

Sat Sri Akal.

AMBARSARIA Ji,
Yes,
GuR is for GuR JOt(i) as EKANKAARu
NAAMu is for GIYANu(Specific Single Knowledge)

Prakash.S.Bagga

 

[ravneet_sb]

Sat Sri Akaal,

Please interact/reject/accet or comment on thought.

Please don't go on words, these are expression to relate, the process behind action.

One perform actions,

Conscious Mind
Sub conscious mind
and
Unconscious mind

When my righteous action is governed by unconscious state of mind,
than It is complete and profound.

Our unconscious mind has animal instincts,

When "GURU's BANI" reaches that mind,

we are awakened unconsciously, subconsciously and consciously.

Than action is surely complete.

Before action if one seeks from unconscious mind his action will be surely complete.

As an example, from a daily common man's experience

Consciously one may think to wake up early, may have 10 alarms together,
all alarms will sleep after ringing, but dear children will not wake up.

but subconscious,
and unconscious mind will not allow.

Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa
Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh

 

[prakash.s.bagga]

Sat Sri Akaal,

Please interact/reject/accet or comment on thought.

Please don't go on words, these are expression to relate, the process behind action.

One perform actions,

Conscious Mind
Sub conscious mind
and
Unconscious mind

When my righteous action is governed by unconscious state of mind,
than It is complete and profound.

Our unconscious mind has animal instincts,

When "GURU's BANI" reaches that mind,

we are awakened unconsciously, subconsciously and consciously.

Than action is surely complete.

Before action if one seeks from unconscious mind his action will be surely complete.

As an example, from a daily common man's experience

Consciously one may think to wake up early, may have 10 alarms together,
all alarms will sleep after ringing, but dear children will not wake up.

but subconscious,
and unconscious mind will not allow.

Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa
Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh

If THE WORD is GuRoo How one can avoid the word/words.
Since NAAMu is manifested from the word and every thing is NAAMu
There exists nothing without NAAMu.
Prakash.S.Bagga

 

[ravneet_sb]

Sat Sri Akaal,

Please interact/reject/accept or comment on thought.

Penetration of "Naam" shall go to to unconscious mind,

that's happen what when does whole minded,

with 100% focus, it penetrates deep, to higher realms.
clearing the unconscious mind.

When one's all sense's are focused to one, word penetrates.
And Naam appears to unconscious mind.

This is whole minded.

As an eaxmple,

One may become conscious,
that "I" will shed "Krodh"

God put one's on test and trigger's situation
it again appears that moment.
Order's of "Guru's Bani" are not followed till core of mind.

Realise and follow till depth of mind,
to have change in life.

Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa
Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh

 

[Tejwant Singh]

Prakash Singh ji,

Guru Fateh.

Thanks for the Shabad and expressing what message it brings to you as a person.

I have a few comments and some questions if you do not mind.

As you did not like the word Pramaatma, the word used by Prof. Sahib Singh ji for Ik Ong Kaar, I do not like the word "Lord" to be used for Ik Ong Kaar because it has a Biblical slant and one can buy the title Lord for a few Pounds in the UK. In facts there are some Lords which are Sikhs, Hindus and Muslims in the UK along with some white Lords and it is demeaning to Ik Ong Kaar to use this. I know many Sikh scholars have used this word in their translations because they got it from the earlier Christians "Sikh" scholars and historians who translated Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji or wrote about Gurbani.

In fact I wrote a little piece regarding this explaining why we should not use the word "Lord" for Ik Ong Kaar which can be found in this forum.

ਸੂਹੀ ਮਹਲਾ ੫ ॥

सूही महला ५ ॥

Sūhī mėhlā 5.

Soohee, Fifth Mehl:


ਦਰਸਨੁ ਦੇਖਿ ਜੀਵਾ ਗੁਰ ਤੇਰਾ ॥
दरसनु देखि जीवा गुर तेरा ॥

Ḏarsan ḏekẖ jīvā gur ṯerā.

Gazing upon the Blessed Vision of Your Darshan, I live.

ਪੂਰਨ ਕਰਮੁ ਹੋਇ ਪ੍ਰਭ ਮੇਰਾ ॥੧॥
पूरन करमु होइ प्रभ मेरा ॥१॥

Pūran karam ho▫e parabẖ merā. ||1||

My karma is perfect, O my God. ||1||


ਇਹ ਬੇਨੰਤੀ ਸੁਣਿ ਪ੍ਰਭ ਮੇਰੇ ॥
इह बेनंती सुणि प्रभ मेरे ॥

Ih benanṯī suṇ parabẖ mere.

Please, listen to this prayer, O my God.

ਦੇਹਿ ਨਾਮੁ ਕਰਿ ਅਪਣੇ ਚੇਰੇ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥
देहि नामु करि अपणे चेरे ॥१॥ रहाउ ॥

Ḏėh nām kar apṇe cẖere. ||1|| rahā▫o.

Please bless me with Your Name, and make me Your chaylaa, Your disciple. ||1||Pause||

TEJWANT SINGH Ji, This SABAD is related to the word GuR and Prabh.
My Understanding is as under

O GuR,I may live by seeing your DARSAN(Blessaed Vision)

What do you mean by the words blessed vision? Isn't Ik Ong Kaar omnipresent? As The Source is, then it has to mean something more than just the blessed vision? This gives the notion that Ik Ong Kaar is a deity which Sikhi has no relation to.So, can you elaborate your own "vision" about it?

Secondly, ਬੇਨੰਤੀ is not a prayer but a request. I gather that you agree with the English translation of this Shabad, otherwise, you would have written it in your own words.

My Action becomes perfect ,O Ultimate Lord.

We are Sikhs, which means we are always learning, hence perfection is not a destination nor a desire or our ultimate goal. Only Ik Ong Kaar is perfect. We have no idea what being the best is but we have to do our best to become better everyday with our actions as Sikhs. Don't you think so?

Do you agree or not that whenever there is a RAHAO in the Shabad, it has the central message of the Shabad? If not, then what does it mean grammatically?

If it is, then doesn't the pangti of Rahao make a request, not a prayer- ਬੇਨੰਤੀ by a Sikh for Ik Ong Kaar to become our guide and guide us towards the right direction?

Being ਚੇਰੇ- learners is the result of the ਬੇਨੰਤੀ- the request we have made. It is like the means justify the ends not the other way around.

So, I am a bit confused about your interpretation and your agreeing with the English translation which is distorting.

My Action becomes perfect ,O Ultimate Lord.

My Ultimate Lord ,Listen to this prayer of mine

By giving NAAMu ,Make your Desciple. Rahaa-u

On hearing your views I shall complete the balance understanding.

More hearing from you.

Thanks for this. I am sure in this way we can create a better understanding about Gurbani from all aspects both grammatically and spiritually. So, lets continue with this kind of interaction.

Thanks & regards

Tejwant Singh

 

[Ambarsaria]

Let us together throw away all cleverness and with Sat Guru's Grace may we play the game of the the Saints ,let us enter the house of love.

SP ji I am right now working at a diamond mine. I am studying Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji and finding endless riches. I hardly use any cleverness in my study. I am in humility and awe most of the time.

Remember diamonds are well liked by many,

Shirley Bassey - Diamonds Are Forever (From "Divas Are Forever" DVD) - YouTube

Then one learns to love Gurbani as,

Dame Shirley Bassey - Where Do I Begin (Love Story) & Something - YouTube

And my Veer sp ji that is the way it is,

Céline Dion - That's The Way It Is - YouTube

So to each their own.

Sat Sri Akal.