Fools Who Wrangle Over Flesh

[spnadmin]

Re: Is Eating Meat Associated with Masculinity and Power?

Luckysingh ji

Maybe you know more mild-mannered kaurs than I do.

One good kaur-friend always orders steak and eggs when we go to a diner for breakfast, and when she eats prime rib she stabs and slices and rushes the bleeding red chunks to her mouth as if she had not eaten in weeks. And she never orders chicken or alfredo or salad for that matter. She is also a diabetic. Should I build an entire theory about diabetics based on my solitary experiences.

p/s She is also silent as a tomb and will not utter a word until every shred of flesh is cleaned from the bone.

Another good kaur-friend hunts. She is certified in a number of weapons. For her 50th birthday her husband gave her a 22 calibre pistol for her collection. She keeps 2 freezers full of beef. She always buys a side of a cow and has it butchered and dressed within minutes of slaughter. These days her personal political mission is to make it legal for teachers to carry firearms in schools.

p/s Her husband's sister and mother also hunt. She fits right in.

I won't continue. Each and everyone is a unique experience. I don't see how we can come up with big truths based on individual cases.

On the other hand, based on these 2 examples --- maybe women should be forbidden to eat meat. They should stick to shrimp. Then they will remain feminine.

All this meat eating by women must be what is changing the world. How is that for a gross generalizaton?

 

[Ishna]

Re: Is Eating Meat Associated with Masculinity and Power?

My husband is a big vegetarian truckers type with a tattoo down the side of his head. He is a very blokey bloke. Maybe he eats meat when Im not looking.

He also has his gun license but loves pet bunnies and ducks. Not sure which pigeon hole to put him in...

 

[Seeker2013]

Re: Is Eating Meat Associated with Masculinity and Power?

This thread wasn't supposed to generate gender debate .

But the way someone hacked my account and posted a reply from my own account asking me to 'grow up' is not appreciated , but then maybe again , misusing their privileges is admin's habit and when you do things like that it gives a bad impression of the whole site !

WELL DONE !

 

[Seeker2013]

Re: Is Eating Meat Associated with Masculinity and Power?

I was just making random stuff up based upon my emotional interpretations !

I am not the only one with this 'emotional interpretations' then !

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/05/17/meat-men-masculinity_n_1524224.html

 

[spnadmin]

Re: Is Eating Meat Associated with Masculinity and Power?

This thread wasn't supposed to generate gender debate .

But the way someone hacked my account and posted a reply from my own account asking me to 'grow up' is not appreciated , but then maybe again , misusing their privileges is admin's habit and when you do things like that it gives a bad impression of the whole site !

WELL DONE !

Yes, a bad impression all the way around.

This is a very serious accusation veer ji... but I am not surprised. Nor is it funny, it appears you have amended your comment to make it seem like a joke.

For the sake of other forum members reading this, it is technically impossible for admin (either me or Admin Singh) to "hack" an account, or send an SPN private message to a member from that member's account.

For now your membership will be suspended until a decision can be made. Even in jest an accusation of hacking is not a laughing matter.Both Admin ji and I are harmed by the suspicions raised by your words.

You have been given some time off to think about it.

 

[Luckysingh]

Re: Is Eating Meat Associated with Masculinity and Power?

Luckysingh ji

Maybe you know more mild-mannered kaurs than I do.

I don't actually know many kaurs.
Maybe I have encountered the minority crowd all along... who knows and who really cares ?
My post was speaking in the generalization that we can find out there.

I have come across many articles in male magazines especially, about how more Men like to order meat instead of a veggie dish to feel more masculine or manly.
If you conduct a simple web search, you should find many articles and surveys that shout the same thing.
To be honest, I know that I would often do this myself when out for a meal with the lads. Sometimes I would feel like trying some veggie stuff but probably felt a little sissy to order it whilst everyone else ordered different meats !! .... That was my own weakness back then and I am well past that stage now...it wouldn't happen today or tomorrow !


Anyway, it's a pointless discussion because we all have different experiences on a day to day basis. But when it comes to fine dining and eating at parties or functions, then things change on a whole even with drinks that get consumed and most of this is down to social and cultural settings. nothing to do with acting masculine, feminine or sissy.
Any Punjabi or Indian party caterer will confirm that most of the meat gets consumed by men and most of the veggie dishes go to the females !
I am sure that we have all seen this as a generalization at most punabi/indian functions that we may have attended.
I don't think it has any correlation with gays and their social settings for that matter.

I'm not going to waste any more energy on this matter as it only drains me spiritually. Instead, I shall go and meditate and clear this clutter from my mind whilst connecting with my true innerself.:singhsippingcoffee:

 

[Ishna]

Re: Is Eating Meat Associated with Masculinity and Power?

This thread wasn't supposed to generate gender debate .

Seeker ji, the discussion is naturally going to be about gender when the question is directly about such! How can it not?

But , really whats so masculine about chewing into steak ?

Responses thus far have generally been "nothing!" with a sprinkle of "steak isn't as feminine a meal as chicken or other dainty foods".

If you don't want to talk about gender, then don't start threads about it.

In Australia, meat is a very masculine food. BBQs are a very popular cultural activity, where we have an outdoor hotplate/grille, usually gas powered, where (generally) the men congreate drinking beer and cooking the meat, and the women sit around the table which they've prepared with salads and other snacks, drinking champagne.

The men are supposed to eat the majority of the meat and avoid what they call the 'rabbit food' (the salad). The women will still eat the meat, but they can also eat just the salad without risk of social faux pas.

I present Exhibit A for the jury:

Mmm, smell the testosterone.

We still have quite a social stigma in Australia regarding vegetarianism in general, and yes, men who are vegetarian tend to be seen as more effeminate, not because of physical development, but because the expectation is that men should eat meat.

Happily, as vegetarians are growing in number including male ones, the stigma will lessen, and we'll all be one big happy eating family.

And as a bonus prize, here's a link to a page about Vegetarian Athletes. http://www.unleashed.org.au/who_cares/vegetarian_athletes.php?athlete=bill-pearl

Oh my! Well hello Mr Simmonds! :grinningkudi:

 

[spnadmin]

Re: Is Eating Meat Associated with Masculinity and Power?

ishna ji

You have now made me wonder how much of our ideas about meat-eating are not shaped so much by gender (men v women) but culture in combination with cultural ideas about men and women.

The Mediterranean diet is much touted today for its healthy qualities. That is the diet I was raised with. Meat is eaten in moderation. Fish (apparently also a feminine food in some zones) adds variety to the diet, and much sought after variety. Many different cheeses are included. Vegetables abound. Salads are culturally mandated.

I have vivid memories of uncles munching happily on salad soaked in vinegar and oil and sprinkled with Gorgonzola cheese after everyone else had their fill. No evening dinner ended without it. Meat was there but not every night, and certainly not red meat. They brought their eating habits from the old country, from the Mediterranean. Fish and other seafoods, and lots of it, could be cooked in a half-dozen ways. (You are really into this if you like octopus salad or the tentacles of squid stewed in tomato sauce. And that was for my uncles special order.)There are in the Mediterranean diet at least 6 ways to cook any green vegetable -- oh so savory.

So much land around the Mediterranean was over-cultivated over centuries that most of it was good only for olive trees, small private vegetable plots that could be watered by hand, and chickens. Grazing lands were nil; so beef was expensive and rare. And then when the immigrants' children made good in new lands where red meat was plentiful, we all started to eat more beef, more veal, more pork. In new lands where there was open-space and meat was more plentiful, and people could afford it. Then we were told - Go on a Mediterranean diet.

So my ideas of what men eat and what women eat are colored by a different set of memories, experiences and associations. My father and uncles had not a good meal unless it began with a soup laced with shredded greens (this was a norm that traces back to the Roman legionnaires who brought many varieties of lettuce to northern Europe), it continued with good bread and just a little bit of meat (but just as often an omelette or fish), it might have included pasta or rice but not every day, and it ended with salad and cheese. And a salad was not a salad unless there were upwards of 6 different ingredients. Men and women ate essentially the same things. The idea that men would feel like sissies if they eat quiche doesn't compute for me. Friday night was fritatta night - a baked omelette filled with peppers, onions, potatoes and cheese - not that different from quiche. It was paired with white beans stewed with celery and with peppers roasted with garlic. Maybe there was also codfish, bluefish or a tuna salad or cold asparagus.

Men were in charge of cooking certain things too; and women, other things. Men did not barbecue; men cleaned crabs and dressed a good bluefish. Women cooked just about everything. Right about now, in autumn, my grandfather and his friends would take over the kitchen and make sausage to dry for the winter. Both men and women baked bread and desserts.

Those are my experiences. That is how my ideas of what men eat were fine-tuned. When I hear that 'men eat meat and that's just what men do' I might as well be hearing transmissions from Mars. But then we know men are from Mars - or say what?

 

[Kamala]

Re: Is Eating Meat Associated with Masculinity and Power?

I have never meet anyone calling someone "gay" because of what they eat!
Your sexuality isn't determined by what foods you eat lol.

Anyways, there are plenty of people in this world who are living proof that you can be fit and healthy with a lactose vegetarian diet/vegan (pure).

Anyone that calls you gay for being vegetarian isn't worthy of attention and you do not have to associate with such people.

Sat Sri Akal.

 

[Brother Onam]

Re: Is Eating Meat Associated with Masculinity and Power?

Sat Sri Akaal,
I remember reading in the autobiography of Mahatma Gandhi that when he was a schoolboy, in colonial India, there was a ditty that was chanted:
"Behold the mighty Englishman, he rules the Indian small; because he is a meat-eater, he stands (6 ft) tall."
So the perception even at that time was that it was the vegetarianism of the colonized that enabled the domination. In actual fact, of course, this is not true. I've lived among hundreds of strict vegans who were tall, strong, could outrun me by miles, and had ridiculous stamina and longevity (see Fauja Singh!). At the same time, in the U.S., where meat is eaten in great abundance, osteoporosis, diabetes, heart disease and obesity -all debilitating diseases- occur in record-breaking frequency.
If you feel compelled to get omega fatty acids, iron, protein or B12, these are all obtained in superior form, from walnuts, flax seeds, leafy greens, or natural supplements. The reason many species of sharks are on the endangered species list is because in Chinese 'culture' the eating of shark-fin soup is considered a ritual of verility, because the shark is big, strong and dangerous. It has neither flavour nor nutritional value, but is hunted to virtual extinction, to appease the desire to indulge in a food signifying dominance.
People with real strength have no need to fall back on mis-guided and obsolete concepts of strength through blood-shed.:singhsippingcoffee:Waheguru

 

[kds1980]

Re: Is Eating Meat Associated with Masculinity and Power?

Sat Sri Akaal,
I remember reading in the autobiography of Mahatma Gandhi that when he was a schoolboy, in colonial India, there was a ditty that was chanted:
"Behold the mighty Englishman, he rules the Indian small; because he is a meat-eater, he stands (6 ft) tall."
So the perception even at that time was that it was the vegetarianism of the colonized that enabled the domination. In actual fact, of course, this is not true. I've lived among hundreds of strict vegans who were tall, strong, could outrun me by miles, and had ridiculous stamina and longevity (see Fauja Singh!). At the same time, in the U.S., where meat is eaten in great abundance, osteoporosis, diabetes, heart disease and obesity -all debilitating diseases- occur in record-breaking frequency.
:singhsippingcoffee:Waheguru

The fact that meat makes you strong was also prevelant in Guru Gobind singh's time.I read one saakhi where some people asked Guru gobind singh that a turk can eat whole goat and we eat rice and lentils how could we fight with them.The fact is Almost everywhere warrior races used to eat meat even in hinduism kshatriyas were allowed to eat meat.

May be reason behind it is that fighting war is very heavy body exercise and body needs enormous amount of energy and protein which could had been easily obtained from meat.

As far diseases are concerned, Indians are more prone to Diabetes and heart diseases even if they are less obese and vegetarian. Its because of genetics

So Yes meat will always be associated with power and energy but for those people which are doing plenty of physical activity .For others the less they eat the better it is

 

[Scarlet Pimpernel]

Re: Is Eating Meat Associated with Masculinity and Power?

Seeker Veera What does peace look like?

 

[Harry Haller]

Re: Is Eating Meat Associated with Masculinity and Power?

Seeker Veera What does peace look like?

they are small green and round, but the man is talking about meat here SPji

 

[Scarlet Pimpernel]

Re: Is Eating Meat Associated with Masculinity and Power?

Musketeer ji

He has not come to terms yet with what he is talking about ,it is another meet or the meeting of mind or himself for peace looks like you,if you look at your face in the mirror you can see if you are at peace,all other worries about meat or masculinity or reputation is just the need for a peace in mind.

 

[AngloSikhPeace]

Re: Is Eating Meat Associated with Masculinity and Power?

Umm, if people got turned gay by not eating enough meat, then surely India wouldn't be the second most populated country in the world? lol


People seem to be born gay, and it might have something to do with testosterone exposure in the womb (hence the link with digit ration). It's not something that can easily be influenced by environmental factors like meat-eating and such.

 

[Luckysingh]

Re: Is Eating Meat Associated with Masculinity and Power?

Is Eating Meat Associated with Masculinity and Power?

What's the answer then ?

 

[Ishna]

Re: Is Eating Meat Associated with Masculinity and Power?

Answer is it depends on the culture.

We have an example from Australian culture where it is, an example from Mediterranean culture where it isn't, and I think an example of American culture where it isn't. What about an example from Punjabi culture. Anyone?

 

[Luckysingh]

Re: Is Eating Meat Associated with Masculinity and Power?

I would say Punjabi culture definitely is.
Punjabi jatts(farmers) especially, are famous for eating meat and drinking home made desi(liquor)! ohh.... not forgetting the bhangra(bruaaahhh) dancing

 

[Kamala]

Re: Is Eating Meat Associated with Masculinity and Power?

Depends on the area of the jatt people too.
The area of punjab where I come from, the jatts didn't eat meat (other than the rare druggies). The backwards caste people were known to eat meat in my area.

 

[Luckysingh]

Re: Is Eating Meat Associated with Masculinity and Power?

Depends on the area of the jatt people too.
The area of punjab where I come from, the jatts didn't eat meat (other than the rare druggies). The backwards caste people were known to eat meat in my area.

Hey... so you hung out with the forward caste !..

Just kidding...

Yeh, I think I established that it was more a cultural thing that depends on social setting as well.
On the whole, it seems the macho men are the bigger meat eaters, although some will be adamant to disagree........
Not everything is black and white is it ?