Fools Who Wrangle Over Flesh

[another gupt]

Re: Is Eating Meat Associated with Masculinity and Power?

In ayurveda (indian science of food), meat is termed as "Pitta" , which basically means "heat " .. so meat increases the heat or kam (passion/lust/ physical energy) in your body. This is ok of you are fighting a war or doing a hard day's physical labour . But as you age there comes a time when you have overloaded your body with Pitta producing foods this eventually leads to disease.

Women should be really careful and cut out meat especially during menopause because it interferes with the body.

Overall meat is not really good for those following a spiritual life because it influences mind.

The mind seeks to survive, compete and win - quite the opposite of following the guru's path.

 

[aristotle]

Re: Is Eating Meat Associated with Masculinity and Power?

Overall meat is not really good for those following a spiritual life because it influences mind.

I wonder how...

 

[spnadmin]

Re: Is Eating Meat Associated with Masculinity and Power?

I believe we should clarify these are your opinions and experiences, another_gupt ji. These are not scientifically proved nor are they true from a gurmat point of view.

 

[Luckysingh]

Re: Is Eating Meat Associated with Masculinity and Power?

Overall meat is not really good for those following a spiritual life because it influences mind.

I think that the biggest food/influence for my MIND is MAYA.
The only problem I am aware of is, -If trying to meditate and calm the mind after a meaty meal, you may feel over sleepy. But then again, you can also experience this with a meal of pasta, and especially if it is in a heavy cheesy sauce !

 

[param_70]

Re: Can I Go to the Gurdwara after Eating a Tiny Bit of Meat?

Waheguru Jiyo, do not listen to anyone (if you try to live according to the dictates of the great Gurus, Bhagats and Saints) and just ponder over this and hopefully you will be able to make up your mind about the unsettling question of whether we should eat meat or not:
siB Gt myry hau sBnw AMdir ijsih KuAweI iqsu kauxu khY ]
God says, all bodies are mine, and I am in all bodies. Who can explain this to one who is confused?
hir mMdru eyhu srIru hY igAwin rqin prgtu hoie ]
This body is the Temple of the Lord, in which the jewel of spiritual wisdom is revealed.
hir mMdr mih hir vsY srb inrMqir soie ]
The Lord abides within the Temple of the Lord (human body). He is pervading in all.

So now just put two and two together and make four! God abides in one and all. Human body is a temple he himself made to reside in. You seem to be conscious of entering Gurudwara Saheb (a temple of brick and mortar we made) after eating meat but seem to be completely oblivious to the fact that you are throwing all kinds of dead animals in His temple when you eat meat. Does that not constitute desecration of the most glaring type? Think and you will find answer! Regarding vitamin mineral deficiencies, it's all rubbish! The more our information base is widening as a result of modern research, the more confused we are growing! If you don't agree, don't believe me go to Wikipedia, search Fauja Singh (and he is one of millions, if not billions who are vegetarians) and find for yourself this iconic man is a vegetarian. I sincerely pray to Waheguru may this help clear the cobwebs in your mind about meat eating. Remember Waheguru Jiyo when you tread the path of spirituality then one of the very first noble qualities that begin to rise up in your heart is compassion (daya). That is sure sign you are making headway on the road to God realization. Otherwise you could be deceiving yourself, unwittingly perhaps.
Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa!
Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh!!

 

[spnadmin]

Re: Can I Go to the Gurdwara after Eating a Tiny Bit of Meat?

The thread, "Can I go to the Gurdwara after Eating a Tiny Bit of Meat" has been merged with the thread "Fools Who Wrangle Over Flesh" spnadmin

 

[spnadmin]

Re: Can I Go to the Gurdwara after Eating a Tiny Bit of Meat?

The thread Fools Who Wrangle over Flesh stands out as the SPN thread with the most views and the most replies. More emotions have also been spent at SPN on the topic of meat. We are more emotional about meat than about sexual grooming of Sikh girls in UK, remaining faithful to the 3 pillars of Sikhism, forced conversions in the SWAT, drug abuse and alcoholism in Punjab, forced marriages and honor killings, and many other subjects.

If commanded by unseen cosmic authorities to pick one and only one thread for SPN, based on popularity, and discard all the others, it would be this thread about eating meat. Meat seems to be more defining of Sikhi than SGGS or Bhai Gurdas ji. It would mean that SPN would no longer be Sikh Philosophy Network. SPN would become the Meat Philosophy Network or MPN. Who can explain to me how it comes to pass that "meat" seems more important than all other challenges to our identity, spirituality and way of life. Why is meat is more important and therefore more interesting than problems faced by our youth, the multifarious troubles of Punjab, loss of identity in the diaspora, remaining faithful to the 3 pillars of Sikhism.

 

[aristotle]

You seem to be conscious of entering Gurudwara Saheb (a temple of brick and mortar we made) after eating meat but seem to be completely oblivious to the fact that you are throwing all kinds of dead animals in His temple when you eat meat. Does that not constitute desecration of the most glaring type? Think and you will find answer!

Well, Guru Nanak Sahib performed this 'desecration of most glaring type' when he consumed deer meat at Snehat Teerth/Siddh Vati of Kurukshetra during the Solar eclipse to bust the myth that meateating during some religiously ordained time-periods leads to hell hereafter; and don't tell me no one knows that Guru Hargobind Sahib and Guru Gobind Sahib performed hunting occassionally.

While our Guru Sahibans were rationalists and mythbusters, it is sad to observe that some of our own community are falling victims to these Taliban-like 'don't do this, don't do that' kind of exercises, none of which are mentioned in Sikh Rehat Maryada, perhaps we consider ourselves bigger Sikhs than the Rehat Maryada expects us to be.

Regarding vitamin mineral deficiencies, it's all rubbish! The more our information base is widening as a result of modern research, the more confused we are growing!

I would say it is rubbish if I could. But, a normal vegetarian diet does suffer from nutritional inadequacy, and that is the prime reason primarily vegetarian societies like India suffer from alarming nutritional deficiencies, and fare poorly in some respects (say, Iron deficiency anaemia: www.hindawi.com/isrn/public.health/2012/765476/ ) as compared to financially poorer neighbours like Pakistan and Bangladesh.

Not that a vegetarian person cannot live a healthy lifestyle, but it does require deliberate and careful management of diet and exercise, as compared to non-veg counterparts who get some nutrients comparatively easily. Anyways, vegetarianism should be out of choice(a considerable number of Atheists are Vegans/vegetarians too), and not out of 'guilt' to 'desecrate body temple'. Every gun need not be fired from religion's shoulders.

 

[gurtej khubbar]

Eating meat is not even a discussion point. For me the more important question is how do we treat animals we are breeding for meat. I don't want to look back 100 years from now when we regret the way we treated animals the same way as we once treated slaves.

I try to buy real organic meat or eggs or vegetables as much as I can from ethical prospective and that's more important that discussing if I shud eat meat or not..

 

[linzer]

Re: Can I Go to the Gurdwara after Eating a Tiny Bit of Meat?

The thread Fools Who Wrangle over Flesh stands out as the SPN thread with the most views and the most replies. More emotions have also been spent at SPN on the topic of meat. We are more emotional about meat than about sexual grooming of Sikh girls in UK, remaining faithful to the 3 pillars of Sikhism, forced conversions in the SWAT, drug abuse and alcoholism in Punjab, forced marriages and honor killings, and many other subjects.

If commanded by unseen cosmic authorities to pick one and only one thread for SPN, based on popularity, and discard all the others, it would be this thread about eating meat. Meat seems to be more defining of Sikhi than Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji or Bhai Gurdas ji. It would mean that SPN would no longer be Sikh Philosophy Network. SPN would become the Meat Philosophy Network or MPN. Who can explain to me how it comes to pass that "meat" seems more important than all other challenges to our identity, spirituality and way of life. Why is meat is more important and therefore more interesting than problems faced by our youth, the multifarious troubles of Punjab, loss of identity in the diaspora, remaining faithful to the 3 pillars of Sikhism.

Spnadmin ji,
Absolutely!! The post I started about Sewa, which I consider to be one of the most important facets, of Sikhi, got five responses. What is up here?

 

[spnadmin]

Re: Can I Go to the Gurdwara after Eating a Tiny Bit of Meat?

Spnadmin ji,
Absolutely!! The post I started about Sewa, which I consider to be one of the most important facets, of Sikhi, got five responses. What is up here?

It is strange linzer ji. I don't have an answer. Keep on with the sewa, all the ways you define it, and all the ways that are active in your life.

 

[Kamala]

This thread always drives me nuts lol

 

[Gyani Jarnail Singh]

This thread always drives me nuts lol

just dont end up that way permanently...:swordfights:

 

[Abneet]

Not Eating Beef or Meat at all?

I know there are many threads about it I wanted to make one nonetheless. I had a conversation with my Dad who is amritidhari, and he was lecturing me on why I should stop eating beef and meat. Let me summarize what he said and it might not be 100% what he said.

He said that all animals have souls. They are reincarnated to all different kinds of animals. He then said eating a animal that has been brutally killed just for food intake is inhumane. But he says we live in a society that thinks nothing is wrong with it. He specifically told me the story with Guru Gobind Singh Ji killing the rabbit while hunting just to release his soul. The story is more broad, but I wanted to summarize it.

Now modern Sikh society finds it acceptable to eat meat and beef some are not very fond of eating that.

Guru Nanak Dev Ji says, “To take what rightfully belongs to another, is like a Muslim eating pork, or a Hindu eating beef. Our Guru, our Spiritual Guide, stands by us if we do not eat those carcasses. By mere talk, people do not earn Liberation. Salvation only comes from the practice of truth. By adding spices to forbidden foods, they are not made acceptable. O Nanak, from false talk, only falsehood is obtained” (Guru Granth Sahib Ji, 141).

“Living by neglect and greed, the world eats dead carcasses. Like a goblin or a beast, they kill and eat the forbidden carcasses of meat. Control your urges, or else you will be thrown into the tortures of hell” (Guru Granth Sahib Ji, 723).

How many of you Amritdhari's eat meat? In general to everyone whats your take on this.

Quotes found at http://www.realsikhism.com/index.php?subaction=showfull&id=1248309400&ucat=7

 

[Harry Haller]

Re: Not Eating Beef or Meat at all?

Q: Are the stories about Guru Ji eating meat true?
A: Many people write many misleading things. We suggest not to believe in any article if each act described in that article is not supported by references from Guru Granth Sahib Ji.
Please let us know where in the Sikh scriptures it is written that Guru Ji ate meat. Historians can be wrong, as they do not know what exactly happened back then. Some historians have purposely created their own stories in an attempt to hurt Sikhism. The Sikh scriptures are the only true source of knowing the truth as they were written in that time.
Stories also get twisted as they are passed from one person to another and one generation to another. Sakhis written in Guru Granth Sahib Ji and Sau Sakhi are the only true source and they all show again and again that Sikh Gurus were vegetarian and preached to live a vegetarian lifestyle. Not even once permitting of eating meat is mentioned in any Sikh Scripture.

lol lol lol lol

 

[Ishna]

Re: Not Eating Beef or Meat at all?

Wow. It's one heck of a slippery slope making that argument. *sigh*

Abneet ji, you may want to peruse this extensive thread: http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/sikh-sikhi-sikhism/8828-fools-who-wrangle-over-flesh.html

 

[spnadmin]

Re: Not Eating Beef or Meat at all?

Just for the record:

1. Some amritdhari believe that eating meat is the 5th kurehit. The Sikh Rehat Maryada names only 4 kurehit and meat eating is not one of them. Meat eating is not forbidden by the SRM.
   
2. The Sau Sakhi are not anything more than a fraudulent group of writings mysteriously discovered in someone's backyard during the 19th Century. They are not considered a reliable authority on anything. During the 19th Century there was a concerted effort to inject many hindu teachings into Sikhism. That gave rise to the SinghSaba movement - to take Sikhi back from the mahants. We are alas still debating this today.
   
3. The only other authority than Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji that is considered reliable are the vaars of Bhai Gurdas. Sau Sakhi do not trump his writings regarding the lives of the Gurus.
   
4. Finally, this thread will need to be merged later in the day with an existing thread "Fools who Wrangle over Flesh" because there are too many threads about meat and it becomes hard to keep track of.

Unfortunately I must contradict what you have been taught Abneet ji.

 

[Abneet]

I didn't get to read the whole thread because I have been busy, but can one answer to me were all the gurus vegetarians and if they were vegetarians why did they choose a vegetarian lifestyle?

 

[spnadmin]

Abneet ji

There is no evidence the Gurus were vegetarians. Today goats are slaughtered jatka style at Hazoori Sahib, a shrine to Guru Gobind Singh. Nihangs eat goats slaughtered jatka style. You don't have to read any sakhis for this information. You can go to India and see for yourself.

Guru Nanak incurred the wrath of devotees at a celebration of the solar eclipse in Haryana when he and Mardana partook of deer meat. His exchange with the irate worshipers is remembered in these verses:

ਮਃ ੧ ॥
Mėhlā 1.
First Mehl:

ਮਾਸੁ ਮਾਸੁ ਕਰਿ ਮੂਰਖੁ ਝਗੜੇ ਗਿਆਨੁ ਧਿਆਨੁ ਨਹੀ ਜਾਣੈ ॥
Mās mās kar mūrakẖ jẖagṛe gi▫ān ḏẖi▫ān nahī jāṇai.
The fools argue about flesh and meat, but they know nothing about meditation and spiritual wisdom.

ਕਉਣੁ ਮਾਸੁ ਕਉਣੁ ਸਾਗੁ ਕਹਾਵੈ ਕਿਸੁ ਮਹਿ ਪਾਪ ਸਮਾਣੇ ॥
Ka▫uṇ mās ka▫uṇ sāg kahāvai kis mėh pāp samāṇe.
What is called meat, and what is called green vegetables? What leads to sin?

ਗੈਂਡਾ ਮਾਰਿ ਹੋਮ ਜਗ ਕੀਏ ਦੇਵਤਿਆ ਕੀ ਬਾਣੇ ॥
Gaiʼndā mār hom jag kī▫e ḏeviṯi▫ā kī bāṇe.
It was the habit of the gods to kill the rhinoceros, and make a feast of the burnt offering.

ਮਾਸੁ ਛੋਡਿ ਬੈਸਿ ਨਕੁ ਪਕੜਹਿ ਰਾਤੀ ਮਾਣਸ ਖਾਣੇ ॥
Mās cẖẖod bais nak pakṛėh rāṯī māṇas kẖāṇe.
Those who renounce meat, and hold their noses when sitting near it, devour men at night.

ਫੜੁ ਕਰਿ ਲੋਕਾਂ ਨੋ ਦਿਖਲਾਵਹਿ ਗਿਆਨੁ ਧਿਆਨੁ ਨਹੀ ਸੂਝੈ ॥
Faṛ kar lokāʼn no ḏikẖlāvahi gi▫ān ḏẖi▫ān nahī sūjẖai.
They practice hypocrisy, and make a show before other people, but they do not understand anything about meditation or spiritual wisdom.

This thread derives its title from the words mas mas kar murakh jhagre Take it from there.

 

[Abneet]

I still haven't finished reading, but I am also curious if we believe in reincarnation and being reincarnated into different species why are we allowed to eat food that represents a dead animal. The animal of the meat I eat has a soul so is it wrong in a way that I'm supporting something immoral? Is there anything that backs up eating flesh of animal that once had a soul. Each species try to have a relationship with God if that is what we believe, so if I get reincarnated as a cow and i'm kept in a slaughterhouse whats the chances for me? I hope I made my question a little clear I'm just confused on this topic. I will finish the reading though.

Here's a link to an article I read about this topic that I though had some good points.

http://www.panthkhalsa.org/rahit/rahit_kuthha.php