Gurbani Wichar

[Original]

( message to the organizers. please advise if i keep putting gurbani or stop because it appears to me that some Christians have entered in the organization. may be they would not appreciate it though it is an universal message thank you)

Swarn Singh Ji,

You're doing a wonderful job, pls don't stop on account it being worded differently. This is largely due to one's phobic disorders with certain words and phraseologies and has nothing to do with different systems of belief.

Regards

 

[swarn bains]

SGGS page 699

ਸੇਵਕ ਸਿਖ ਪੂਜਣ ਸਭਿ ਆਵਹਿ ਸਭਿ ਗਾਵਹਿ ਹਰਿ ਹਰਿ ਊਤਮ ਬਾਨੀ ॥

All devotees and followers come to worship. All sing God’s sacred sermon.

ਗਾਵਿਆ ਸੁਣਿਆ ਤਿਨ ਕਾ ਹਰਿ ਥਾਇ ਪਾਵੈ ਜਿਨ ਸਤਿਗੁਰ ਕੀ ਆਗਿਆ ਸਤਿ ਸਤਿ ਕਰਿ ਮਾਨੀ ॥੧॥

Those who obey and adhere to guru’s teachings! Whatever they sing or listen is approved by God; ||1||

ਬੋਲਹੁ ਭਾਈ ਹਰਿ ਕੀਰਤਿ ਹਰਿ ਭਵਜਲ ਤੀਰਥਿ

O brother sing God’s praises. God is the shrine of pilgrimage in the terrifying world-ocean.

ਹਰਿ ਦਰਿ ਤਿਨ ਕੀ ਊਤਮ ਬਾਤ ਹੈ ਸੰਤਹੁ ਹਰਿ ਕਥਾ ਜਿਨ ਜਨਹੁ ਜਾਨੀ ॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥

O saints; those who understand God’s sermon, are honored in God’s court. ||Pause||

ਆਪੇ ਗੁਰੁ ਚੇਲਾ ਹੈ ਆਪੇ ਆਪੇ ਹਰਿ ਪ੍ਰਭੁ ਚੋਜ ਵਿਡਾਨੀ ॥

He is the guru, the devotee, the God. What a wonderful play!

ਜਨ ਨਾਨਕ ਆਪਿ ਮਿਲਾਏ ਸੋਈ ਹਰਿ ਮਿਲਸੀ ਅਵਰ ਸਭ ਤਿਆਗਿ ਓਹਾ ਹਰਿ ਭਾਨੀ ॥੨॥੫॥੧੧॥

O servant Nanak, whom God unites, is united with Him leaving everyone aside. That is God’s will.

 

[swarn bains]

SGGS page 706

ਜਿਸੁ ਬਿਸਰਤ ਤਨੁ ਭਸਮ ਹੋਇ ਕਹਤੇ ਸਭਿ ਪ੍ਰੇਤੁ ॥

Forgetting Him, one’s body turns to ashes and everyone calls him a ghost.

ਖਿਨੁ ਗ੍ਰਿਹ ਮਹਿ ਬਸਨ ਨ ਦੇਵਹੀ ਜਿਨ ਸਿਉ ਸੋਈ ਹੇਤੁ ॥

All those whom you loved, do not let you stay at home even for a moment.

ਕਰਿ ਅਨਰਥ ਦਰਬੁ ਸੰਚਿਆ ਸੋ ਕਾਰਜਿ ਕੇਤੁ

He gathers wealth committing sins; what good is it?

ਜੈਸਾ ਬੀਜੈ ਸੋ ਲੁਣੈ ਕਰਮ ਇਹੁ ਖੇਤੁ ॥

As you sow so shall you reap, the body is the land of your deeds

ਅਕਿਰਤਘਣਾ ਹਰਿ ਵਿਸਰਿਆ ਜੋਨੀ ਭਰਮੇਤੁ ॥੪॥

The thankless forgot God and wander in different life again and again.

 

[swarn bains]

This is my translation. it is different from all others. i want your opinion.

ਪਵਣੁ ਗੁਰੂ ਪਾਣੀ ਪਿਤਾ ਮਾਤਾ ਧਰਤਿ ਮਹਤੁ ॥

Using air as a culture, life has been created by the reaction of water and earth.

ਦਿਵਸੁ ਰਾਤਿ ਦੁਇ ਦਾਈ ਦਾਇਆ ਖੇਲੈ ਸਗਲ ਜਗਤੁ ॥


The way, day and night begin and end. Same way the whole creation takes birth and dies.

ਚੰਗਿਆਈਆ ਬੁਰਿਆਈਆ ਵਾਚੈ ਧਰਮੁ ਹਦੂਰਿ ॥

Good or bad whatever they do are accounted for in God’s court.

ਕਰਮੀ ਆਪੋ ਆਪਣੀ ਕੇ ਨੇੜੈ ਕੇ ਦੂਰਿ ॥

Everyone gets the fruit of their deeds; some soon others late.

ਜਿਨੀ ਨਾਮੁ ਧਿਆਇਆ ਗਏ ਮਸਕਤਿ ਘਾਲਿ ॥

Whoever worked hard to recite the name of God.

ਨਾਨਕ ਤੇ ਮੁਖ ਉਜਲੇ ਕੇਤੀ ਛੁਟੀ ਨਾਲਿ ॥੧॥

Nanak says, they have attained salvation and many more have accompanied them. ||1||

 

[japjisahib04]

ਪਵਣੁ ਗੁਰੂ ਪਾਣੀ ਪਿਤਾ ਮਾਤਾ ਧਰਤਿ ਮਹਤੁ ॥
Using air as a culture, life has been created by the reaction of water and earth.ਦਿਵਸੁ ਰਾਤਿ ਦੁਇ ਦਾਈ ਦਾਇਆ ਖੇਲੈ ਸਗਲ ਜਗਤੁ ॥ The way, day and night begin and end. Same way the whole creation takes birth and dies.

Let us know first why Guru Sahib has addressed 'Pawan as Guru' and 'Paani versus Pita'. As I was going through the rahao pankti of the shabad, 'madho jal ki piyaas naa jaey -jal hi mai agan uthi adhikaey' SGGS 323.17, I start wondering how water can be thirsty and how there can be fire in the water. When I studied the context of whole sabd, I realized guru sahib is addressing 'jal' as fire of desire. It means in this sloke Pita is referred as santokh versus fire of desire and 'pavan' versus satguru dee matt rupi pavan - divine traits. Since mind is always covered with vices which leads to spiritual death every now and then, over here divinely knowledge is oxygen which diverts our mind from tossing and turning and shifts towards the virtues of Akal Purakh, so let us nourish our heart with it.' SGGS.756.11.

 

[swarn bains]

Neither I can understand you, nor you can understand me, we are both lost

 

[Original]

Neither I can understand you, nor you can understand me, we are both lost

Swarn Singh Ji

Not even God can please all the people all the time and you're only a mortal, so why worry ! Instead, stay focused on the selected few who loves your translations, like me for instance and carry on translating.

Post #124 was miles off target ! [ਪਵਣੁ ਗੁਰੂ ਪਾਣੀ ਪਿਤਾ ਮਾਤਾ ਧਰਤਿ ਮਹਤੁ ॥] Guru Nanak is metaphorically trying to tell us something very specific, that is: air is guru, water is father and earth the mother incubator. His language is simple, not complex, therefore keep it simple. Imagine it as if you were listening and not reading - for he is guru and we the chela. Try and keep the mind out.

Remember, change the meanings of the text, and you start changing the intended message of the conveyor. Always go for the literal interpretation in the first instance unless an overriding consideration dictates otherwise.

Take care -

 

[japjisahib04]

Neither I can understand you, nor you can understand me, we are both lost

The subject matter throughout japjisahib is how to be sachiar and from where the divine traits emanates to achieve descriminatory intellect and not how biological birth is created in mothers womb.

 

[swarn bains]

SGGS page 715


ਰੂੜੋ ਮਨੁ ਹਰਿ ਰੰਗੋ ਲੋੜੈ ॥

ਗਾਲੀ ਹਰਿ ਨੀਹੁ ਨ ਹੋਇ ॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥

By mere words, Lord’s love does not well up. separation

ਹਉ ਢੂਢੇਦੀ ਦਰਸਨ ਕਾਰਣਿ ਬੀਥੀ ਬੀਥੀ ਪੇਖਾ

I search to visualize Him, looking in every street.

ਗੁਰ ਮਿਲਿ ਭਰਮੁ ਗਵਾਇਆ ਹੇ ॥੧॥

Meeting the guru, my doubts have been dispelled. ||1||

ਇਹ ਬੁਧਿ ਪਾਈ ਮੈ ਸਾਧੂ ਕੰਨਹੁ ਲੇਖੁ ਲਿਖਿਓ ਧੁਰਿ ਮਾਥੈ ॥

I obtained this wisdom hearing from God’s devotees.

It was written on my forehead from destiny.

ਇਹ ਬਿਧਿ ਨਾਨਕ ਹਰਿ ਨੈਣ ਅਲੋਇ ॥੨॥੧॥੧੮॥

In this way, Nanak has seen the Lord with his eyes what a amazing pehnomina

 

[japjisahib04]

ਇਹ ਬਿਧਿ ਨਾਨਕ ਹਰਿ ਨੈਣ ਅਲੋਇ ॥੨॥੧॥੧੮॥
In this way, Nanak has seen the Lord with his eyes what a amazing pehnomina

S. Swarn Singh Jee,
How could Guru Nanak see the Lord who is formless.We should be very careful in interpretating gurbani.

 

[Original]

S. Swarn Singh Jee,
How could Guru Nanak see the Lord who is formless.We should be very careful in interpretating gurbani.

Dearest Japjisahib Ji -

Allow me to explain !

The writers of Gurbani possess a divine perspective with which they're able to analyse the mystical trends operating behind the visible world and present them on the level of reality. The verses found in SGGSJ express certain characters, places, themes and incidents as images, metaphors and allegories etc. The long n short of it all is that Gurbani is replete with divinity as well as secular consciousness, a bridge if you like, between the spiritual n the temporal world.

Swarn Singh Ji, in my view does a reasonable job for the prudent seeker and should be encouraged and not discouraged. Indeed, when n where tweaking could be justified on corrective grounds it should be actioned without reservations. This will not only help Swarn Ji, but will also improve the prose n poetic value of Gurbani for the better.

As regards the translation above, he's done a reasonable job, not perfect mind you, but nonetheless, carries the spirit n the letter of communication to all intent n purposes. The point in question [how Nanak can see the formless] is spiritually realised by an exalted being and thus expressed using human characteristics [Guru Arjun Dev]. Should you wish to translate it differently, I offer the following as an aid for your perusal:

॥ ਇਹ ਬਿਧਿ ਨਾਨਕ ਹਰਿ ਨੈਣ ਅਲੋਇ ॥੨॥੧॥੧੮॥ {ਪੰਨਾ 715}

ਇਹ = this
ਬਿਧਿ = method, intelligence, etc
ਹਰਿ = God
ਨੈਣ = eyes
ਅਲੋਇ = sight or to see

Similar shabd can be found on page 534 [ਮੈ ਪੇਖਿਓ ਰੀ ਊਚਾ ਮੋਹਨੁ ਸਭ ਤੇ ਊਚਾ]. Translation : O' I have seen the Lord to be high.....

Take care - Gdnight !

 

[swarn bains]

japujee sahib 04. i really like your comments. I am not very good at translating gurbani in English. it appears from your comments that you are very good at it. it will be nice of you if you start translating gurbani and join me or you do it and I will stop and read yours. The way I think more people join translating more meanings will be explained and it will turn out to be a very good may be even perfect translation. pleas joint doing it and i will thank u.. as for as original je is concerned;, thank you for your support..

 

[japjisahib04]

The writers of Gurbani possess a divine perspective with which they're able to analyse the mystical trends operating behind the visible world and present them on the level of reality. The verses found in SGGSJ express certain characters, places, themes and incidents as images, metaphors and allegories etc. The long n short of it all is that Gurbani is replete with divinity as well as secular consciousness, a bridge if you like, between the spiritual n the temporal world.

I am fail to understand why the writer who possess divine perspective with which he is able to analyse the mystical trends writes at one place he is formless and then contradict he has seen him.

 

[Original]

Japjisahib Ji - you've got a big sticker alongside your name suggesting you're a "mentor" to the organisation SPN and yet, without any real substance or indepth ideological viewpoint you go on to make unfounded crticisms. What of the organisation that solicits such service, I wonder ? And, begs the question whether you'd be a Sikh or the delusion Sikh ? Surely, it goes agianst the grain to question, comment and crticise on the exponential divine wisdom of Gurbani, which for the Sikhs is God. It is not a subject of knowledge that can willy nilly be interrogated, it is "faith", the faith of the individual of the unseen Being, Satnam. You either believe, in whcih case you'd be considered a Sikh or you don't, in whcih case, you by default be held to be a humanist. Its that simple. Of course, you can discuss it, but don't go looking for proof or evidence because that by defintion is contrary to what a system of "belief" is. And, hence the reason classified religion. Maybe you're not a Sikh and a Humanist, in which case your stance would be justified and I'll be more than happy to entertain.

I will now attend to your question above !

First n foremost, I think it is extremely important in the context of the more advanced undergraduate and postgraduate pursuits of Gurbani that the subject [you] should have some idea of the object [God] with which you are able to take on the conceptual Sikh world-view and understand theorectically the inexorable workings of the universe. Guru Nanak introduced two very beautiful terms to that end, sargun and nirgun, meaning, form and formless, respectively. And, in answering your question, I cite the following:

॥ ਸਰਗੁਨ ਨਿਰਗੁਨ ਨਿਰੰਕਾਰ ਸੁੰਨ ਸਮਾਧੀ ਆਪਿ ॥ ਆਪਨ ਕੀਆ ਨਾਨਕਾ ਆਪੇ ਹੀ ਫਿਰਿ ਜਾਪਿ ॥p290 SGGSJ, meaning:
The formless Lord is Himself Related and Absolute
He Himself is in primordeal trance
Nanak through His Creation
He again meditates upon himself.

॥ ਸਰਗੁਣ ਨਿਰਗੁਣ ਥਾਪੈ ਨਾਉ ॥ ਦੁਹ ਮਿਲਿ ਏਕੈ ਕੀਨੋ ਠਾਉ ॥p387 SGGSJ, meaning:
It is the name of the formless as well as the one with form.
Both reside at one place.

Okay, that's all very techincal, but what does it mean ? From an idelogical viewpoint [Sikh] there is the "existence" factor and that existence by virtue is undisputed, unchallenged [academically speaking] and is called Ekonkar. This Ekonkar is formless, shapeless, timeless, ineffable and is described as "nirgun". Guru Nanak, the founder of Sikhism goes the extra mile in conceptualising the existence of the "one" into many of the "being" factor [satnam, creation] having a form, which is described as "sargun". Metaphorically speaking, the raindrop when drops into the expanse of the ocean becomes the ocean and no longer has a form. Similarly, when the writers of Gurbani talk of seen as of form they tend to express both the mystical and the intellectual maturity of the greatness of God from within nirgun, sargun perspective.

I hope we can move on and enjoy Swarn Singh's translations.

Take care -

 

[japjisahib04]

Original Ji
SSA
Gurbani incorporated in the SGGS in the classical poetic form. Our Gurus includiing bhagats have used sophisticated vocabulary and complex syntax in writing precisely formed Sabds (hymns), so as to arouse subtitles of nature and socio-religious culture creating certain effects on human psyche. It is most important to critically analyze content and form of the Sabd to comprehend the actual meaning of each and every word. The essence or theme of the Sabd can be enjoyed only when correctly explicated or interpreted. To understand the cultural context of the Sabd, knowledge of the cultural background of words applied in context is of vital importance. To fully appreciate complex feelings expressed in the Sabd, the person must examine its words and phrasing from the perspective of rhythm, images, obvious and implied meaning. Highly accomplished poets use allusive references to something outside the poem that may be events or people from the history, mythology or religion. The Gurbani mostly illustrated in the form of metaphors, similes, analogies, allegories and personifications, represents theme or essence of the Sabd expressed in specific words.

Now coming back to citing of your exemple, '॥ ਸਰਗੁਨ ਨਿਰਗੁਨ ਨਿਰੰਕਾਰ ਸੁੰਨ ਸਮਾਧੀ ਆਪਿ ॥ ਆਪਨ ਕੀਆ ਨਾਨਕਾ ਆਪੇ ਹੀ ਫਿਰਿ ਜਾਪਿ ॥p.290 SGGS, Gurbani also regretfully says, ' ਚਚਾ ਰਚਿਤ ਚਿਤ੍ਰ ਹੈ ਭਾਰੀ ॥ ਤਜਿ ਚਿਤ੍ਰੈ ਚੇਤਹੁ ਚਿਤਕਾਰੀ ॥ ਚਿਤ੍ਰ ਬਚਿਤ੍ਰ ਇਹੈ ਅਵਝੇਰਾ ॥ ਤਜਿ ਚਿਤ੍ਰੈ ਚਿਤੁ ਰਾਖਿ ਚਿਤੇਰਾ ॥੧੨॥God has painted the greatest picture of the world with various colors but these wondrous creations (Forms) have now become the cause of concern, as mankind is emotionally involved with them and have diverted to worship picture of His creations instead of Him." I think you got my message.

Similarly while interpretating we must see whether it does not logically contradicts the reality. When Swarn singh jee interprets, ' ਨਾਨਕ ਤੇ ਮੁਖ ਉਜਲੇ ਕੇਤੀ ਛੁਟੀ ਨਾਲਿ ॥੧॥Nanak says, they have attained salvation and many more have accompanied them. Now Guru sahib own son couldn't be transformed with his company, what to talk people of outside his house.

 

[swarn bains]

As our tradition is that I cannot do it or I do not want to do it but definitely i want you to stop it. i take it at face value and stop putting my translation on the site and wait for your gurbani wichar. please do it. thank u

 

[Original]

Mohinder Singh Ji - SSA

Original Ji
SSA

This probably is the best part that describes the real you, the Sikh you - thank you !

Gurbani incorporated in the SGGS

SGGSJ is not a legal entity, the use of the term "incorporated" is inappropriate, perphaps collection would've done more justice.

Our Gurus includiing bhagats have used sophisticated vocabulary and complex syntax in writing precisely formed Sabds (hymns), so as to arouse subtitles of nature and socio-religious culture creating certain effects on human psyche.

..are you for real ? Even now, some 600 hundred years later sizable population remains illiterate, why would the authors want to communicate in a sophisticated language? Sorry Sir, but I think you've got your indigenous groups mixed up !

It is most important to critically analyze content and form of the Sabd to comprehend the actual meaning of each and every word.

..no, Sikhi is not for the scholar but the believer ! If you want to critically analyse, then try your hand at journalism ! Gurbani is God, it doesn't require analytical skill, it requires total n complete surrender. Surrender to the sound of music so as to allow its sweet, soft and mournful strains be funnelled into the chambers of the soul; through the ears, the effect as it were, is first on one's energy and initiative of mind to soften it, as iron is softened by the fire in a furnace and then the contemplative human is born, ready to meet the maker. Living a life of a Sikh is the meaning of the word Sikh, why search the scritptures !

The essence or theme of the Sabd can be enjoyed only when correctly explicated or interpreted. To understand the cultural context of the Sabd, knowledge of the cultural background of words applied in context is of vital importance. To fully appreciate complex feelings expressed in the Sabd, the person must examine its words and phrasing from the perspective of rhythm, images, obvious and implied meaning. Highly accomplished poets use allusive references to something outside the poem that may be events or people from the history, mythology or religion. The Gurbani mostly illustrated in the form of metaphors, similes, analogies, allegories and personifications, represents theme or essence of the Sabd expressed in specific words.

..pls, spare me the insult of an intellect - thank you ! save it for your customers !

Gurbani also regretfully says,

..Gurbani does not regret nor does it moan n groan, but is rather, positive and active, meaning, "chardi kala." Don't shy away from the truth in question. Let me remind you, it was form [sargun] and formless [nirgun] the siubjcet matter to hand that initiated the whole of this discussion in the first place and I provided for your perusal the same.

Similarly while interpretating we must see whether it does not logically contradicts the reality.

..what reality would that be ?

When Swarn singh jee interprets, ' ਨਾਨਕ ਤੇ ਮੁਖ ਉਜਲੇ ਕੇਤੀ ਛੁਟੀ ਨਾਲਿ ॥੧॥Nanak says, they have attained salvation and many more have accompanied them. Now Guru sahib own son couldn't be transformed with his company, what to talk people of outside his house.

..you're running, go back and revisit the point in question [post #133]. What has this got to do with the price of potatoes ?

Gurbani Sardar Mohinder Singh Ji is the word of God and not an enterprise for intellectual investigation. You either bow or you don't, full stop - none of this phenji phenji business, I'm afraid.

Take care

 

[swarn bains]

SGGS page 717

ਮਾਈਮਾਇਆਛਲੁ॥

O mother, the worldly wealth is deceiving.

ਤ੍ਰਿਣਕੀਅਗਨਿਮੇਘਕੀਛਾਇਆਗੋਬਿਦਭਜਨਬਿਨੁਹੜਕਾਜਲੁ॥ਰਹਾਉ॥

Without worshipping God; everything is like a straw

on fire, shade of a cloud and flood of water. ||Pause||

ਛੋਡਿਸਿਆਨਪਬਹੁਚਤੁਰਾਈਦੁਇਕਰਜੋੜਿਸਾਧਮਗਿਚਲੁ॥

Renounce smartness and clever tricks; with your palms

pressed together, follow the path of God’s devotees.

ਸਿਮਰਿਸੁਆਮੀਅੰਤਰਜਾਮੀਮਾਨੁਖਦੇਹਕਾਇਹੁਊਤਮਫਲੁ॥੧॥

Recite the inner knower God. This is real purpose and fruit of human body. ||1||

ਬੇਦਬਖਿਆਨਕਰਤਸਾਧੂਜਨਭਾਗਹੀਨਸਮਝਤਨਹੀਖਲੁ॥

The devotees preach Vedas but the unfortunate fools do not understand them.

ਪ੍ਰੇਮਭਗਤਿਰਾਚੇਜਨਨਾਨਕਹਰਿਸਿਮਰਨਿਦਹਨਭਏਮਲ॥੨॥੭॥੨੬॥

Servant Nanak is absorbed in loving worship; reciting God removes filth.

SGGS 718

ਕੋਈਬੋਲੈਨਿਰਵਾਕੋਈਬੋਲੈਦੂਰਿ॥

Some say God is near, others say, He is far.

ਜਲਕੀਮਾਛੁਲੀਚਰੈਖਜੂਰਿ॥੧॥

It is like a fish that is supposed lives in water but climbs the date tree. ||1||

ਕਾਂਇਰੇਬਕਬਾਦੁਲਾਇਓ॥

Why do you speak nonsense?

ਜਿਨਿਹਰਿਪਾਇਓਤਿਨਹਿਛਪਾਇਓ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ॥

One, who finds God, hides it.


That is what we all are. Simply saying to each other you are wrong and yet do nothing worthwhile. We have something special and we are rejecting it ignorantly. what a misfortune

 

[japjisahib04]

ਮਾਈਮਾਇਆਛਲੁ॥ O mother, the worldly wealth is deceiving.ਤ੍ਰਿਣਕੀਅਗਨਿਮੇਘਕੀਛਾਇਆਗੋਬਿਦਭਜਨਬਿਨੁਹੜਕਾਜਲੁ॥ਰਹਾਉ॥ ithout worshipping God; everything is like a straw on fire, shade of a cloud and flood of water. ||Pause||

Swarn Singh Je,
Can You please elaborate who is that mother in above pankti?And what do you mean by everything is like a straw on fire, shade of a cloud and flood of water

 

[japjisahib04]

no, Sikhi is not for the scholar but the believer ! If you want to critically analyse, then try your hand at journalism ! Gurbani is God, it doesn't require analytical skill, it requires total n complete surrender. Surrender to the sound of music so as to allow its sweet, soft and mournful strains be funnelled into the chambers of the soul; through the ears, the effect as it were, is first on one's energy and initiative of mind to soften it, as iron is softened by the fire in a furnace and then the contemplative human is born, ready to meet the maker. Living a life of a Sikh is the meaning of the word Sikh, why search the scritptures !

Original Ji
SSA
To be a scholar is not difficult, (itt chukai tai scholar milda hai) but to be human being is really difficult task. That is why gurbani is written in poetic form and gurmat gian is how to be human being. At first glance due to lack of knowledge it looks most of the six thousands sabd in SGGS are repeat but once we delve within and see the instrinic meaning, we find they are not same and each sabd highlights our particular mode which keeps on changing.They are gur sagar rattani bharbhurai. Self introspection, humility, infinite love irrespective of any situation present yourself in sweet and soft manner, leave enough space so we learn and share with each other.

Gurbani does not regret nor does it moan n groan, but is rather, positive and active, meaning, "chardi kala." Don't shy away from the truth in question. Let me remind you, it was form [sargun] and formless [nirgun] the siubjcet matter to hand that initiated the whole of this discussion in the first place and I provided for your perusal the same.

Please read the sabd and see yourself whether it is written in positive sense and feeling sorry.