I Considered Cutting My Hair

[Kamala]

hair is not what makes you a Sikh

^ I agree, although it is a big part, it means nothing to people in kal yug (although it should). Just like how some of the major teachings here may be manipulated, as I have seen a thread where they tried to look at quotes negatively also if you think you will feel bad for it, it's your fault L0L!

 

[findingmyway]

When I was a child I had a top-not as they call it in the UK. I was told that without the hair I was not a sikh and that it was a gift from god and that it should never be cut I was sent to indian school to brush up on my punjabi and learn about our culture, I heard the most glorious stories about how sikhs had died defending the dastaar I became myself quiet bold in my defence of the dastaar thinking this is something that god gave me. Me being quiet young I did not have the knowledge of life but only the knowledge that was taught to me by these institutions i.e; the indian school club, the gurdwara and home. They gave me a thinking or a sense that a man should rather die then let the dignity of the dastaar be humiliated. I had a lot of stick as a child off some other young sikhs and from other children from other cultural backgrounds aswell regarding my appearance with my top-not, to me it was a gift from god so I accepted it. Then came a time I had a dispute with another child at school, as young kids do. This dispute ended up in a fight between the two of us this other child was from a different cultural background as the fight ensued the child knocked it causing me even further anger, but it was still in tact after the fight and mainly because my mother had tied it well. As I grew up my thinking in this point became quiet extreme as I was begining to realies what the concept of god was, and so this "gift" from god became more of a priority to me. With these thoughts in my mind I had a thought, that had another fight ever happened as they do when your young and they did when I went to high school I would now have been in jail for maybe mass murder or maybe dead myself for defending it, which would have been complete and utter madness and would not have looked very good for sikhism as that would have been reported across the media aswell because I was so against anyone touching the top-not or causing any humiliation to it as it was taught to me as a "gift" from god. I realised what the concept of "god" was but this gift made no sense. In hindsight, luckily for me before I went to high school my mother became ill and as I was young I was unable to look after the hair the result being my family and me deciding to have it cut. God's gift is human life, not hair on its own. Growing up now I understand what the metaphor of the dastaar is and that it is not to be taken so literally, it is about oneself. Any persons life is worth more than hair, regardless of what any extremist religious fanatic tells you. God preserved the Guru Granth Sahib to preserve human life not just hair. The opposite of what would have happened due to wrong understanding and it is what is being preached within our communities, we have been lucky that cases of the above have not happened on scale before as some young men lack the determination to follow a belief and just follow for the sake of keeping others happy. If we had born into our communities more children with more determination to uphold their beliefs the outcomes could have been quite catastrophic. Lucky most sikhs in the west are relaxed in their views now. From some chap knocking my top-not off I was willing to knock out the life of some poor chap, maybe not so much of a poor chap, maybe that guy did deserve a knocking but not so much to an extent to knock the life out the chap. Everything has its balance.
peacesign

Parma ji,
Don't blame the top knot for your actions. Had you chosen to deal with the situation in a different way, e.g. promoting education and understanding rather than violence, the outcome would have been different. Had you made the effort to understand Sikh philosophy rather than using blind faith and mindless violence, you would not have gone to jail. Don't blame the top kot for your individual response-that is down to your personality alone. Here's an example of another approach:

http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/inspirational-stories/28767-unfair-discrimination.html

 

[Parma]

Parma ji,
Don't blame the top knot for your actions. Had you chosen to deal with the situation in a different way, e.g. promoting education and understanding rather than violence, the outcome would have been different. Had you made the effort to understand Sikh philosophy rather than using blind faith and mindless violence, you would not have gone to jail. Don't blame the top kot for your individual response-that is down to your personality alone. Here's an example of another approach:

http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/inspirational-stories/28767-unfair-discrimination.html

That is rich, how is 8 or 9 yr old going to promote education and understanding on it, when a community can not achieve that I would only have gone by what was being taught to me, if a gurdwara cant teach better understanding on it indian culture classes cant promote better understanding on it elder members of society cant promote better understanding on it, what chance has a child. Read it fully my friend the interpretation of it took a whole community to produce an understanding on it. How do you mean do not blame the top not on my response? The faith is taught that the hair is not to be humiliated and if all other resources have failed then the kirpan is the resort. You must live in a guilded box I grew up on the hard streets of inner cities your response would be different as in you would have experienced a different journey to me and your dastaar.

p.s. I did not go to jail. If you are going to respond to me please be kind enough to read what I wrote properly!!

I will look at your other point you have pasted but we all know how the truth is. You can not hide from the truth
:grinningsingh:

 

[Kanwaljit.Singh]

Parma ji agreed that community might not give you the right reasons. It still doesn't mean that you discard Guru's gifts. When others cannot answer properly, you find your own answers. You talk to Guru. And they told you that top knot should not be humiliated. In the end the questions is what you do when you are humiliated. I have thought what will happen if someone tries to cut my hair. What will I do to the person? Will my life be worth living after that? These are complex questions. And they are thrown to us as people become more 'inhuman' with time. Doesn't mean that I will be a better person if my Kesh are gone, it is not a point of conflict, but something I earned on my spiritual quest!

 

[Parma]

Parma ji agreed that community might not give you the right reasons. It still doesn't mean that you discard Guru's gifts. When others cannot answer properly, you find your own answers. You talk to Guru. And they told you that top knot should not be humiliated. In the end the questions is what you do when you are humiliated. I have thought what will happen if someone tries to cut my hair. What will I do to the person? Will my life be worth living after that? These are complex questions. And they are thrown to us as people become more 'inhuman' with time. Doesn't mean that I will be a better person if my Kesh are gone, it is not a point of conflict, but something I earned on my spiritual quest!

Kanwaljit Singh ji, sir I respect you deeply but I have to keep stressing please read my post that I wrote above properly! Before you reply! The reason I have given for me deciding to cut my hair was not because of what society had taught me. The descision to cut my hair came from a choice of personal circumstances maybe it is not justifiable to you under those circumstances but for me and my family it was. My mother being ill and me being not prepared enough beforehand led to my decision to cut it. It was out of respect of not being able to keep it properly that bought my decision to cut it. The justification between god and me, to me and god is justified. I am not seeking your approval. I am not saying you will be a better person if you cut your kesh. I am giving my side of the story a different perspective on it. Which we should think about. Funny enough I thought I would recieve love on here for this story instead of an attacking mode. As this sikh tried to keep his top-not, the decision was not because I was afraid to confront society it was personal circumstances that would not permit it. You could say their are alot of young children that tie and keep their top-not in tip top condition. My situation was I was not pre-prepared for that and when something bad happened in my family their was no background support for it. For me and my family it was a means that justified the ends. Whether you feel my actions are justified is of no importance to me it, you are not god, my decision led from my understanding which comes from my relationship with god and me. Mutt vich ratten jahavan mangeh, jeh ik gur ki sikh suni, gur ik thev bugia sub ka jio ka ik he, dahtha someh viser nah jaho

:sippingcoffeemunda:

 

[Harry Haller]

We all make our own decisions in life, I admire your honesty Parmaji.

I have always felt that the growth of Kesh is not an issue, those that value it cannot explain why they value it, and that I feel is the point for all us mona types to aspire to reach, when you delight in letting it grow, and you know in your heart why it is so important, you will be unable to justify it through any logical or known reason, you just know....

If one has doubts, or finds it hard, I really cannot see the point in labouring, this is no way to be in consonance.

If Openmindedji was 10 years older, this would be a moot thread, but this has nothing really to do with Openmindedji, and everything to do with the effect on his family.

 

[Parma]

I write what I write as I do not want sikhism to fall under a hate campaign from other communities in the future. If sikhs follow such a hard line view which is preached and truthfully you can not deny it. It will have consequences and in the end it will lead to the downfall of knowledge and all that will remain is a turban and a man no sikh, no learning no studying no developing. The dastaar should be a metaphor, as I think it was intended to be. To create a fearless warrior type of mindset. You touch a hair on my head and that is it you will get it son; that is the analogy on it, it is not literal teaching and should be tought so. I learned through my life I hope others learn before Sikhi is lost. Thanks for your time

 

[Mai Harinder Kaur]

Perhaps a look at what we are talking about will help. Perhaps not.

My son had hair like this and was willing to die rather than cut them.

 

[Harry Haller]

Maiji

Your son was one in a million, and the product of wise and strong parentage.

Not all of us possess the upbringing, wisdom and understanding he had, he was very fortunate to achieve that in such a short life.

I can understand what Parmaji is trying to put across, but it really is not as simple as someone shoving your turban off, that happened to me quite frequently at school, and the more animated I became, the more it happened, such frivolous actions should be met with humour and patience, unfortunately the forced cutting of hair is not just an enforced haircut, it is more about forced conversion, and/or renouncing ones present beliefs, renouncing the Guru, and that is where it is right to defend oneself using all means at hand.Not in the manner of a drunken elephant, but in the manner of a calm spiritual Sikh, without anger, without hate but to stand your ground and show your oppressor that you will not be beaten, you will not be broken, you stand a Sikh, you die a Sikh rather than submit to force. This is an entirely different subject to playground jinks.

 

[TigerStyleZ]

The main problem we need to talk about is. Why the hell people are so obssessed of cutting hair? Why they are influenced that much? What makes you cut your hair? What are the TRUE reasons? Will you get a better human or you just want to hide in a sheep crowd?
I am still not getting this point ...? Please explain me . My little brain don´t understands? You keep hair on all your body - but you cut it in on your mukh? (face/head) ? I am getting mad - searching for this answer ... Is it the everyday fight? The mentally struggling or what??Why I dont understand it ? Why??????

This is not directed to you OPENMINDEDSingh this is directed to all who cut their hair.

 

[Kamala]

The main problem we need to talk about is. Why the hell people are so obssessed of cutting hair? Why they are influenced that much? What makes you cut your hair? What are the TRUE reasons? Will you get a better human or you just want to hide in a sheep crowd?
I am still not getting this point ...? Please explain me . My little brain don´t understands? You keep hair on all your body - but you cut it in on your mukh? (face/head) ? I am getting mad - searching for this answer ... Is it the everyday fight? The mentally struggling or what??Why I dont understand it ? Why??????

This is not directed to you OPENMINDEDSingh this is directed to all who cut their hair.

Hi, I think I know why most people want to, it is because they have trouble fitting in and would do anything to fit in. I bet if all the gorays did not cut their hair the OP would not have a problem

 

[Kanwaljit.Singh]

Funny enough I thought I would recieve love on here for this story instead of an attacking mode. As this sikh tried to keep his top-not, the decision was not because I was afraid to confront society it was personal circumstances that would not permit it. You could say their are alot of young children that tie and keep their top-not in tip top condition. My situation was I was not pre-prepared for that and when something bad happened in my family their was no background support for it. For me and my family it was a means that justified the ends. Whether you feel my actions are justified is of no importance to me it, you are not god, my decision led from my understanding which comes from my relationship with god and me. Mutt vich ratten jahavan mangeh, jeh ik gur ki sikh suni, gur ik thev bugia sub ka jio ka ik he, dahtha someh viser nah jaho

Sorry to sound offensive, but I was pointing to your part of life after cutting hair, you felt keeping it (or the reasons) were in a way radical or inexplicable! I have never dared to comment on what circumstances you went through. I was just talking about your comparison of life with and without hair.

 

[Scarlet Pimpernel]

The faith is taught that the hair is not to be humiliated and if all other resources have failed then the kirpan is the resort.

Parma Ji With love brother I don't think the hair feels the humiliation, it's more our pride is hurt ,in any case the kirpaan is the very last resort and I don't think a scuffle applies.

Any way it was quite brave of you to tell of your personal experience.

 

[Inderjeet Kaur]

I remember back in the late 1960s and through the 1970s when long hair and beards on men were "in," at least in North America. Is there anyone other than me old enough to remember and report on what it was like for Sikh kesdhari guys then? (I'm willing to bet there were still complaints about "the turban made me different" or some such.)

We women didn't get a break. In spite of the efforts of the Women's Libbers, ladies were still expected to shave legs and underarms. I was never a lady. icecreamkaur

 

[TigerStyleZ]

I remember back in the late 1960s and through the 1970s when long hair and beards on men were "in," at least in North America. Is there anyone other than me old enough to remember and report on what it was like for Sikh kesdhari guys then? (I'm willing to bet there were still complaints about "the turban made me different" or some such.)

We women didn't get a break. In spite of the efforts of the Women's Libbers, ladies were still expected to shave legs and underarms. I was never a lady. icecreamkaur

Mhh, right, but I can´t find the answer of my question :S I don´t even know if there is an answer?!?..?

BAH! A Lady without hair isnt a lady , so you are meant to shave hair on legs and arms? What about the head? Why don´t shave whole head ? If you do this may you will get a Super lady - like britney spears!

Now especially it is "in" that people shave their genitalia - thats really kinky - I don´t even like to imagine! Mere the thought i just painful.


rhom rhom mahe basee morrarriee

 

[Inderjeet Kaur]

Mhh, right, but I can´t find the answer of my question :S I don´t even know if there is an answer?!?..?

BAH! A Lady without hair isnt a lady , so you are meant to shave hair on legs and arms? What about the head? Why don´t shave whole head ? If you do this may you will get a Super lady - like britney spears!

Now especially it is "in" that people shave their genitalia - thats really kinky - I don´t even like to imagine! Mere the thought i just painful.


rhom rhom mahe basee morrarriee

I believe the shaving of women's genitals is an old Muslim custom. It certainly appalls me when anyone suggests I ought to. I don't know about men.

I am posting this not to preach, just to listen to. (The shabad starts ar 2:46, if you was to skip the talking.)

:japposatnamwaheguru: :japposatnamwaheguru:

The Gurmukh meditates on God with every hair of his body. - YouTube

 

[Parma]

Parma Ji With love brother I don't think the hair feels the humiliation, it's more our pride is hurt ,in any case the kirpaan is the very last resort and I don't think a scuffle applies.

Any way it was quite brave of you to tell of your personal experience.

It was not a process of just a scuffle. It was a process of bullying, from which is what muslims did to sikhs in the past regarding their faith. Anyway regardless;
1. At what point do you commit to it then?
2. Why commit at all?
3. If that is your approach the top-knot cant be that sacred too you then and it cant be that holy to you?
4. If anyone would dare as spit on the Guru Granth I am sure their would be repercussions for that?
5. Why is the top-knot any different?
6. It is the same guru's gift I was taught?
Please answer these questions as this effects the whole sikh community!

 

[findingmyway]

Parma ji,
Don't tell me I don't understand. I was bullied most of my school life and I was still discriminated against for my hair as an adult when looking for marriage, including by 'Gursikhs'. I chose my beliefs over everything. The local community was small and taught blind faith which didn't suit my scientific mind. I have given my thoughts about what hair means and why it is so precious several times including on this thread. These have been formulated (and are always being refined) by personal study and contemplation. It is not the Gurdwara's reponsibility or my family's or nayone else's to teach me. I ahve always taken responsibility for that myself, from a young age.

I could have reacted by with annoyance, anger or any number of emotions exhibited but instead, like Trimaan in the link I posted earlier I chose to educate myself and then educate the world about Sikhism. For that. There are numerous times having reduced or no kesh would have would have made my life a lot easier but if there is a will there is a way! The point? Never blame external factors for problems in life. It is always about how we as human beings deal with it. We all get some things wrong and some things right but looking for a scapegoat helps no-one, esp not ourselves.

I also find the insistence on calling kesh a 'top-knot' as indicative of lack of respect. Thank you for sharing your story but not everyone would deal with those circumstances in the same way as we are all different people. This is not an attack on yours or anyones personality but just a way of saying I will never understand your logic just like you probably will never understand mine!

 

[Parma]

Parma ji,
Don't tell me I don't understand. I was bullied most of my school life and I was still discriminated against for my hair as an adult when looking for marriage, including by 'Gursikhs'. I chose my beliefs over everything. The local community was small and taught blind faith which didn't suit my scientific mind. I have given my thoughts about what hair means and why it is so precious several times including on this thread. I could have reacted by with annoyance, anger or nay number of emotions exhibited but instead, like Trimaan in the link I posted earlier I chose to educate myself and then educate the world about Sikhism. For that. There are numerous times having reduced or no kesh would have would have made my life a lot easier but if there is a will there is a way! The point? Never blame external factors for problems in life. Never blame external factors for problems in life; If you was involved in a car crash that made you disabled and was not your fault would you not blame external factors. If someone was to rob your home and ended up killing your loved ones would that not be an external factor. Wake up ji, you are not god you can not control the external factors you can only work best with what you have as the Guru's did when fighting a huge mughal force, does not mean there mark or point of were they were getting to finished, Guru Gobind Singh was on many times told by his panj payre to change his idea's one point when he wanted to carry on fighting they gave him the hukam to leave the battle field and was made to look like a muslim pir whatever they wanted to get or wherever they wanted to get too was not any less only they did there best with what they had and as such that is the way the whole world works
It is always about how we as human beings deal with it. We all get some things wrong and some things right but looking for a scapegoat helps no-one, esp not ourselves.




I also find the insistence on calling kesh a 'top-knot' as indicative of lack of respect. Thank you for sharing your story but not everyone would deal with those circumstances in the same way as we are all different people. This is not an attack on yours or anyones personality but just a way of saying I will never understand your logic just like you probably will never understand mine!

In educating yourself and everyone on sikhism have you educated them on the right points of sikhism. Or is it your interpretation of it. Findingmay ji, like I said before, it took a Gurdwara, Indian cultural classes, and elders in a community and still I am learning are you sure you are capable enough to educate the world on sikhism the sath sangat. The Guru's when they were here did not convince all peoples some remained hindu some still remained muslim. This is a personal journey that is why my approach has not been about the 5 k's but about the Sikh=Student which we all are.
It should not offend you calling Kesh a top-knot it is not a derogatry word and in english it makes perfect sense in describing and translating it. As not all people understand punjabi. You are not fully aware of the respect of the term otherwise you would not call it a lack of respect.

 

[Luckysingh]

Parma ji,
I appreciate what you are saying and understand exactly where you are coming from.
Other members don't seem to quite understand your point and situation. I can understand in a sense why they can't catch your point.

I think living in the UK has a major role to play for different consequences and encounters. I'm not saying the problems don't occur elsewhere, but the british attitudes and upbringing is british.
Being here in Canada now, I'm still glad and proud of my british upbringing and I'm always glad to class myself as british or anglo-indian.

But, only people our age can understand what it was like back then. Late 70's and early 80's were tough for all punjabis back then. It is much different now, as you know.
In infant and junior(which goes to age 11, for the non UK's that won't undertsand the terms) I was the only coloured face among all white faces.
You can imagine what it was like, some of the kids parents had never ever encountered someone that was brown skinned until they saw me(the one at school).
When I got to High school (after 12yrs age), there were 3 coloured indians in the whole 500 kids, and one of us had a top-knot.
That is exactly what it was called, even by the teachers. There were many other names that would be the butt of all jokes for white people for the one friend among us three, such as-

'bobble head'
'snow ball' - would be much joked about when snowing.
'cue ball' when snooker championships were on.
'other head'
'planet'
'marshmellow'........
..........The list was endless for the young sikh lad that was among us three.
Your post reminded me of him and all the troubles the poor kid went through.
He had us 2 friends that were punjabis, but we were still outnumbered as kids to defend for him.
I can imagine how difficult it was for you, as our friend used to walk away crying sometimes when the goray's would tease. But like you, he used to try and defend his gift such that if anyone moved it he would try to attack the opponent.
Like you, he was taught the same thing at home and punjabi school.

I now realise, that this story was going on in hundreds and thousands of school playgrounds in all the inner cities in UK back in the 80's.

When I tell the youth of today what it was like back then in UK, they find it real difficult to swallow. Here in Vancouver, they would have a real shock if you told them your story, like wise in many places in today's times and awareness.

This is a different matter in a sense in terms of advising and helping OpenmindedSinghji he has his family as an issue and not his school or college fellows.
But, it should give him some insight of some of the problems faced by millions of young sikhs across the globe at different ages.

Lucky Singh