Arts/Society I Don't Shave

[Ishna]

Good point Linzer ji

I've had more support over the years from men and absolutely none from women. It shows that by and large women in society are just as conditioned to this standard, if not moreso!!!

In fact it probably has parallels to some non Western cultures which oppress women but its often the women who continue said practice with much gusto.

On a side note there's a man I see at the bus stop most mornings, he shaved his beard off on the weekend and said it makes his wife happy, and he doesn't feel like a hobo (homeless person) anymore.

 

[findingmyway]

I am finding the poll results absolutely fascinating! More men than women saying yes and only 1 person brave enough to admit they are not ok with it. We are obviously a very skewed audience. Or perhaps making it an anonymous vote would change the outcome?

 

[Ishna]

There are more men on the forum than women I think?

 

[Harry Haller]

To be honest the subject is a lot more broader than this, in my opinion.

Would I love my wife if she ceased shaving, of course, would I find her attractive, of course, but just how much hair are we talking about? At what point would I say 'whoa thats enough', do all the men that voted yes have a limit on what is acceptable? If so, what is this limit?

 

[Luckysingh]

I understand the angle that Harryji is approaching this from.
I am brave enough to admit that i have the same weakness where i would have to say 'no' or it gets to a point that is past the limit.

Let's be frank and honest here-
Firstly, this imposing of a 'limitation' is all about tolerating, meaning 'how much would you tolerate?'.
Let's just say your partner,fiance or wife decides to just let it all go and grow.
Then psychologically i would start monitoring it (unintentionally).
I know that some men out there would too, even though they will claim it's absolutely fine and they would try very hard to be All accepting.
For me, there would come a point where i would have to say 'enough!'
- this would be the full sideburns, goateee, arms and legs. (like the popular girl last year that was named Balpreet, I think!)

The scenario that came to mind when i first answered the question to myself that coincidentally helped me discover my weakness was as follows-
-Now, I am already married to my wife of choice but I remember some of my friends 'doing the rounds' as I would call it. This was when their families would try and arrange meetings with prospective partners for future marriage and i remembered one who was rather confused with a girl because of her little tache and goatee (especially when she made it clear that she was NOT shaving!)
Anyway, I simply imagined myself in the same scenario where one would have to choose between two prospective girls.
Let's say that a choice had to be made between two girls that had EXACTLY all the same appealing qualities otherwise in terms of physique,intelligence, education, looks..etc.. BUT the ONE HUGE Difference was that the One had excessive facial hair and the other had nothing visible at all..........perfectly smooth and clean......
You see what I'm getting at here ??
Personally, it wouldn't take me too long to consider the non-hairy one with an immediate decision. In fact, i hate to admit, but i would probably even sacrifice a few other extra qualities on the hairy one just so that i get the clean smooth hair-free features !!

I know this borders on being prejudice and not accepting, but It's a weakness that i shall have to try and conquer. Maybe it's just the way i have been raised with the glorifying features of my maya surroundings, but i'm sorry to say I can't help it.

 

[Ishna]

Bring on the day when we can all just be ourselves. :motherlylove:

 

[Tejwant Singh]

Let's not forget one important thing that India exported to the world. Threading. There is one threading salon on Vegas strip in The Fashion Mall. It is very well known and is owned by a Sikh lady who owns quite a few of them sprinkled around the valley.

 

[Harry Haller]

Bring on the day when we can all just be ourselves. :motherlylove:

Easier said than done, first you have to know who you are, in my case it is unlearning everything that society has told me who to be, only then, stripped bare, you may only have an inkling.

In any case, Sikhism has never been about talibanisation, we were given intelligence and logic, the ability to know where spirituality and trueness to oneself ceases, and rigid dogma begins. It is the difference between a way of life, and a religion.

 

[Ishna]

Rigid dogma is 'do this or else'. There are two: Sikhi saying people can't fully be 'in' their religion without disgusting the other gender with their hideously natural body hair, and Society saying people can't fully be 'in' the society without removing said ghastly body hair.

Don't worry about 'being yourself' on the inside bro, we can't even be ourselves on the outside.

 

[Harkiran Kaur]

Lucky Ji, in the case of severe hair amount on women, I believe it's called hirsituism and is a medical condition for which there is medical therapy in the form of hormone replacement. This does not involve hair removal in any way so I don't think would be against rehet. The goal is to improve ALL of the symptoms of the hormone imbalance... one such disorder that can cause excessive hair in women is PCOS, and there is treatment for that also. In the cases of excessive facial hair... it's not normal in women so I would start suspecting hormone issues etc. To me, that line you draw, is also the line where I think it's ok to explore medical treatments because at that point its no longer about living how you were made by the creator, but an abnormal medical condition of the body. Same as you wouldn't leave a genetic immune disorder untreated (things like crohns, etc) just because you were born with them... they are still medical issues and in usually in cases of excessive facial hair in women, there is an underlying medical condition also. Just my opinion on that... even though I know some women with those conditions will still choose not to treat it.

 

[Harry Haller]

I think both the above posts sum it up, and I think the key word here is natural.

Natural body hair, very few people have a problem with, I think the issue is unnatural body hair and underlying causes of such.

 

[spnadmin]

I want to second Akasha ji's comment. Hirsutism is not a condition but a symptom of an underlying condition, which can be very serious and should be addressed.

One of these underlying conditions is called polycystic ovarian syndrome. Heavy facial hair is an indicator: noticeable beard, mustache and sideburns. I am not talking about noticeable peach fuzz or co{censored} lip hair.

When I see a woman with a beard and mustache I do not rejoice at the gift of kesh. Rather I want to tell her - and it is none of my business, so I do not - to seek medical attention.

Polycystic ovarian syndrome involves the formation of numerous, small cysts on the outer lining of the ovary. Long term complications involve infertility, Type 2 diabetes, high blood pressure, ovarian cancer and more.

http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/polycystic-ovary-syndrome/DS00423/DSECTION=complications


The image is of a woman diagnosed with the condition. There are many reasons for facial hair; it does not hurt to see a doctor to find out why. Heavy facial hair, acne and irregular menstruation? You should run to the doctor.

Teenage girls who are frantic about heavy facial hair may be told a number of things, including that it is just the way God made you. I would not be so easy to dismiss the issue because I know women who as kids had facial hair, were put off by parents because hair is "natural," and who found out in adulthood that they did have diabetes and were infertile because of this condition, which is treatable. Why not investigate early before diabetes and hypertension become a chronic disease?

 

[Inderjeet Kaur]

Let's not forget one important thing that India exported to the world. Threading. There is one threading salon on Vegas strip in The Fashion Mall. It is very well known and is owned by a Sikh lady who owns quite a few of them sprinkled around the valley.

Another painful "beauty" procedure that women (and a few men) subject themselves to.

 

[Tejwant Singh]

Another painful "beauty" procedure that women (and a few men) subject themselves to.

Yes they do. I was surprised to know that more men visit her stores than the women do. Must be from the famous show, " The Boys of thunder from down under".-)

 

[findingmyway]

For me, there would come a point where i would have to say 'enough!'

Luckyji thank you for your honesty. It is much appreciated. I started this thread to encourage people to challenge preconceptions. I recently was in A&E and I saw the shock on the nurse and doctor's faces when they saw my hairy legs. What gives anyone the right to say enough? Surely that decision lies with the individual and not an outsider? What right do you have to decide what another person should do with their body? Do you have the right to tell another person to inflict pain on themselves just so you won't be weirded out? (This is not personal to you Lucky ji.)

I think both the above posts sum it up, and I think the key word here is natural.

Medical condition always enter these threads. However, lets all be honest with ourselves, what is perceived as 'natural' is far far below the natural. Until this is openly admitted, attitudes cannot be changed.

Also, how about the medical problems of hair removal?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pseudofolliculitis_barbae

In the United States, the Eighth Circuit Court of Appeals found that Domino's Pizza's no-beard policy created a disparate impact by excluding a quarter of black males from employment but almost no white males, violating the 1991 Civil Rights Act, Title VII.[8]

http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/257885.php

http://www.bizjournals.com/orlando/stories/2005/05/16/story5.html?page=all

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/03/29/bikini-waxing-dangers-risk-health_n_2976402.html

http://www.womenshealthmag.com/health/bikini-waxing-dangers

Shaving Unwanted Hair

Your hair growth rate will determine how often you have to shave the affected region. However, this hair removal method can cause ingrown hairs

Plucking Unwanted Hair

Plucking is the most painful method of hair removal. You should not use this hair removal method for large areas because it can cause ingrown hairs or scarring.

Depilatory Creams

Hair removal creams, also known as depilatory creams, can be purchased over-the-counter. It's important to be cautious when using these creams and to remember all creams are not the same. The chemicals in these products dissolve the hair shaft and if used improperly can cause superficial skin burns.

Hot Waxing

Hot waxing can be messy and painful and may leave some hairs behind because they can break off. Infection is one side effect to watch for. If the wax is too hot, you may get a burn. You should not use this method if you also use certain types of prescription acne creams (such as Retin-A) or take isotretinoin as the wax will pull your skin off.

http://www.medicinenet.com/hair_removal/article.htm

Electrolysis can discolor the skin

Electrolysis can be painful

http://myingrownhairtreatment.info/electrolysis-pros-cons.html

http://health.howstuffworks.com/skin-care/beauty/hair-removal/threading3.htm

I could go on but you get the idea............:gingerteakaur:

 

[Ishna]

Well expressed Fingingmyway ji. In my experience, the allowable amount of hair for a woman is on her head, neatly waxed eyebrows, and possibly a "landing strip". Apart from the softest of almost invisible fuzz the rest must go.

Im a little bit sad that even some of my Sikh brothers and sisters would be reviled by an amritdhari woman. Its one thing for a man to be embarrassed by his dastaar, what others may think of him wearing it, but another yet to feel GROSS before others, like you're unable to take care of yourself or that your dirty and undesirable. And it husts to know this is a reality when you also hear that you're not a "fully fledged Gursikh" without amrit. Really turns amrit into a bit of a farce. At the same time its heartening to look at the results and see the majority is in the 'yes' category

 

[Ishna]

Fingingmyway ji I had a similar experience a couple years ago when I had to visit the gyno and I was so nervous I was apologizing to him in his office in advance. I wanted him to know why the amazon rainforest and leggy peninsula was protected against deforestation because I was so embarrassed . LOL "Im not really a dirty freak its just because of my religion" *facepalm*

 

[findingmyway]

Fingingmyway ji I had a similar experience a couple years ago when I had to visit the gyno and I was so nervous I was apologizing to him in his office in advance. I wanted him to know why the amazon rainforest and leggy peninsula was protected against deforestation because I was so embarrassed . LOL "Im not really a dirty freak its just because of my religion" *facepalm*

That is why I admire the women in the 1st 2 posts. I shouldn't have to hide behind religion or make apologies/excuses to remain in a natural state!

 

[spnadmin]

I am not really replying here to anyone in particular, only to the perception that sometimes we won't whisper to our inner selves , "To hell with the rest of you. I am keeping hair. Say or Think what you want. I don't seek approval, validation for this decision. I shall do as I please. End of story."

We have not found the liberation that comes with keeping the kakkar of hair until we can keep it without feeling we must explain why we keep it, or make up theories about magnetic fields and Vitamin D, or become emotional and defensive if we believe we will be criticized or scorned, or are annoyed when others do not agree, or expect that our free choice should be co-signed by another human being, which then means it is not free.

Kesh is "natural" when it is no longer an emotional burden. The locus of control has to be inside, within not without.

 

[findingmyway]

Kesh is "natural" when it is no longer an emotional burden. The locus of control has to be inside, within not without.

True but the Guru's also taught us to fight against oppression. Society's ideals, whether hair or another stereotype are a form of oppression.