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Islam Is Halal Meat Scientifically Proven Right?

Mar 28, 2010
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Dear True Friend Ji

I just googled "Halal Slaughter Science" and found a number of interesting links that refute what you have noted above

So there was a German study that said there was less pain??]
Well I've just come across a New Zealand study from 2009 that says there was more pain. I have also come across a New Scientist article stating stunning the animal has zero effect on blood loss and so should not be used as an excuse to not stun the animal

I therefore remain unconvinced by your argument

My DEar friend what ever you are telling is just baseless. But I said you with proof the name of the Scientist,where the experiment was conducted,etc.

Also u can posts the links whatever got to refute,i'll try to answer them.

In Halaal Slaughtering the blood drains out as compared to Stunning.Which today we know that blood is an good medium of Germs. If more blood remains in the meat, there are more chances of getting vulnerable to diseases. And as well as in Halaal Slaughtering there is less pain to the animal, as the results.

And these experiment was conducted not on personal views but by modern equipments.

Eventhough, Can i KNow the New Zealand Scientist's name and the result of the research.
 

Randip Singh

Writer
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May 25, 2005
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My DEar friend what ever you are telling is just baseless. But I said you with proof the name of the Scientist,where the experiment was conducted,etc.

Also u can posts the links whatever got to refute,i'll try to answer them.

In Halaal Slaughtering the blood drains out as compared to Stunning.Which today we know that blood is an good medium of Germs. If more blood remains in the meat, there are more chances of getting vulnerable to diseases. And as well as in Halaal Slaughtering there is less pain to the animal, as the results.

And these experiment was conducted not on personal views but by modern equipments.

Eventhough, Can i KNow the New Zealand Scientist's name and the result of the research.

Please back this up. If you have no proof, then your commments will be removed.
 

Seeker9

Cleverness is not wisdom
SPNer
May 2, 2010
652
980
UK
My DEar friend what ever you are telling is just baseless. But I said you with proof the name of the Scientist,where the experiment was conducted,etc.

Also u can posts the links whatever got to refute,i'll try to answer them.

In Halaal Slaughtering the blood drains out as compared to Stunning.Which today we know that blood is an good medium of Germs. If more blood remains in the meat, there are more chances of getting vulnerable to diseases. And as well as in Halaal Slaughtering there is less pain to the animal, as the results.

And these experiment was conducted not on personal views but by modern equipments.

Eventhough, Can i KNow the New Zealand Scientist's name and the result of the research.



Dear True Friend Ji

I am surprised you have asked for this as I think i gave you enough information in my last post to source these links yourself

However, seeing you have asked, here they are:

http://www.newscientist.com/article/mg19225805.100-halalstandard-slaughtering-doesnt-need-animals-awake.html

http://www.grandin.com/ritual/slaughter.without.stunning.causes.pain.html

New Scientist is a respected and long-standing publication

The New Zealand study was conducted in 2009 and the link I have provided is a discussion paper dated February 2010, based on the New Zealand study

This appears to be much more up to date than the German study you quoted

It is not uncommon in the Scientific method for new research to supersede previous findings. So, I am quite happy to accept this new research, which by virtue of the fact the discussion paper is from a US University not involved in the original research project, has also now been independently reviewed and endorsed

I am no Scientist and I am assuming you are not either (forgive me if you are!)

Therefore, if you intend to refute the latest findings, please do so with rational arguments and not quotes from scripture

Thanks
 

P0TTER

SPNer
Mar 25, 2011
47
67
[font=Arial,Helvetica][size=-1]O ye who believe! Eat of the good things wherewith [/size][/font]
[font=Arial,Helvetica][size=-1]We have provided you, and render thanks to Allah[/size][/font]
[font=Arial,Helvetica][size=-1]if it is (indeed) He Whom ye worship. (2:172)[/size][/font]


ayah3.gif


We slaughter according to the dictates of Shariah and again we take seafood without slaughtering it with the permission of Shariah. Allah has created all beings and He knows what is best for us. However Islam being ‘Deen-e-Fitrat’ (the religion of nature), we can and we must find out the logic behind such orders that are objected to by others so that we may prove to them the truthfulness of Islamic way.

In Islamic Shariah, while meat (of permitted animals) is permitted the consumption of blood is prohibited. Your friends who argue with you may themselves not be prepared to consume blood even after being cooked. The Islamic way of slaughter assures that blood gushes out of the animal’s body, while it is retained inside the body of the animal if it is killed abruptly. The consumption of meat of such animals in whose bodies the blood is retained is unhygienic. Consumption of blood is harmful for human beings while meat devoid of blood is wholesome.

As for charge of cruelty to animals in slaughtering them the Islamic way, it has now been proved scientifically that Halal slaughter is the humane method while western method of killing by stunning inflicts acute pain to the animals. Professor Schultz and Dr. Hazim of the Hanover University, Germany disclosed this after the following experiment. They implanted several electrodes surgically at various points of the skull, just touching the brain of several animals under test. Then some animals were slaughtered by a swift deep incision as desired by Islamic Shariah, cutting the jugular veins and carotid arteries of both sides as also the trachea and oesophagus while others were stunned using a captive bolt pistol as is done in western countries. EEG and ECG were recorded on all the animals under experiment. The experiment amazingly revealed that the animal brain did not feel pain as EEG recorded zero even when the animal’s body was convulsing vigorously, letting out the blood in the Halal method of slaughter. On the other hand EEG showed intense pain immediately after stunning in the western captive bolt stunning method, even though the animals were unconscious.
Those animals, whose respiratory system is such that they breathe inside and cannot survive outside the water, are Halal. The flow of blood in the bodies of such animals is so minimal that it does not flow out no matter how their bodies are cut. Hence there is no need of slaughtering them to draw the blood out of their bodies.
There are many points of concern about halal. See this video for a comparison
between humane slaughter and halal slaughter...

Please watch at your own discretion. According to POTTER ji who posted this article the contents may be alarming. spnadmin

WARNING - I could not watch the video all the way through.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h_bZzxep87c


Please watch at your own discretion. spnadmin

Here it is a 10 minute video about how slaughterhouses should operate - Despite the warning at the beginning it is suitable for all to watch....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yaWajdBEuy8



We must all fight together for good practice in slaughterhouses, because there will always be meat eaters in Britain and animals have no voice with out us.
We must continue to protest & write to our MPs & MEPs and Lords and ask them why are we adopting 7th Century cruel halal slaughter practices in 21 Century Britain???
Do it now... it is easy to contact your MPs MEPs & Lords for FREE through this link...
www.writetothem.com
It will not cost you anything... other than your time.

Here is my recent letter, where I mention that it is forbidden for Christians Sikhs & Hindus to eat Halal...


Friday 18th March 2011

Dear Simon Burns,

Re: OVER-PRODUCTION OF HALAL MEAT & LABELLING IN PLAIN ENGLISH

Without doubt Halal meat is being over-produced in this country... See Graph via link below. Halal over-production was allowed to meet increased demand, but that demand is false, as it only happened because we have all been unwittingly buying & eating UNLABELLED halal.

http://halalfocus.net/2010/09/23/uk-eblex-moves-to-quell-halal-fears/

See that Rise in halal and the fall that came after the media woke us all up to the fact that we were unwittingly buying UNLABELLED halal...

UK Statutory Instrument 1995
No. 731 The Welfare of Animals (Slaughter or Killing) Regulations 1995, SCHEDULE 12 Regulations 21 and 22
ADDITIONAL PROVISIONS FOR SLAUGHTER BY A RELIGIOUS METHOD specifies that meat is slaughtered by a muslim - for the food of muslims (or by a jew - for the food of jews).
Nowhere does it state that the religious exemption can be used to slaughter for the mass market.

Britain is a secular society based on Christian principles and it is extremely disrespectful of the muslim community to think that they can try to take control of our food chain in the way they are trying to do.

95% of the UK population are NOT muslim and these consumers are not interested in any kind of Religious Regulation or Certification in the name of allah or anyone else.
How dare the World Halal Forum designate the UK to be a pilot project (2009 WHF) and then last year declare that they aim to "Take Halal Mainstream in the UK... and then Europe"

In addition it is apparent that by the use of trickery and deception, UNLABELLED Halal has been sold & fed to unsuspecting shoppers & consumers throughout the UK for over ten years, but especially in the last five years... AND they dared to even shove it down the throats of our elected politicians in the House of Commons - which made them very angry NB. That supplier lost their contract & the House is now being supplied with normal meat through a bonafide supplier... unlike the Scottish Parliament who have foolishly accepted going halal at Holyrood.

Article 9 Human Rights Act. Freedom of Conscience - gives us the right to religious and secular freedom, ie to not be forced to participate in religious rites. Dedicating this meat to a god violates this right: forced participation... in another's religion without consent. Christians, Sikhs & Hindus are specifically instructed not to eat this meat, so where is non-muslims religious freedom now in Britain?

We really need our MPs & MEPs to establish a Policy that will make Labelling Religiously Slaughtered (RS) meat a Legal Requirement by Law.

The reason for writing to you now is more important than ever, because within the last 48 hours I have had two very alarming telephone conversations... both with a senior members of staff within a government organisations (to whom I have promised I will not name and jeopardize their position); Consequently I, unlike many of our unfortunate farmed animals, am totally stunned by what they told me!

They both basically said that Halal slaughter is extremely profitable.
The food industry is banking on non-Muslims accepting with no fuss that the UK is going 100% HALAL.

Based upon Britain's apparent low standards in the production of meat which resulted in the BSE and other food scares, Muslims think they can tell us what to do according to Sharia Law. So Muslims are pointing out what their food requirements are and if producers don't go Halal, it will cut the size of their market... and it seems that the UK government have been duped into believing that muslims 'know best' & will not take the chance of having the meat trade weaken, as they will loose billions in profit.... So they are going ALL halal.
THIS IS COMPLETELY UNACCEPTABLE!

Furthermore after numerous telephone calls to several employees of Defra & it's subsidiaries, I have found a great deal of concern about our Food Industry, so I am again writing to appeal to those in power to authorise the writing of a suitable policy that will make Labelling ALL Religiously Slaughtered meat a Legal Requirement by Law.
This needs to happen both in the UK and the EU.
(I have also written to all my MEPs & Defra Labelling consultant Janet McKenzie.)

As a nation we need to demand an 'RS' Label suitable for All Religious Slaughtered meat no matter how it is stunned or what its source is.
Simple 'RS' labelling can be used on both Halal & Kosher - solely for the benefit of British consumers & their Right to choose.

It will not affect the Kosher Sales, because the Jews are wanting kosher for themselves and are not attempting a take over the UK Meat Industry & UK Food Chain.

It will affect the Halal Sales, because people will be able to choose (at last!) to refuse to buy Halal products and that will hit the Sales and thereby bring down the demand for Halal Products.

So in the end by fighting the Economic & Labelling issue we will find that we will be able to hit two Halal birds with one stone... For as demand decreases so the need for RS slaughter will decrease too and therefore there will be less animals suffering under cruel demands of Sharia Law.

Re: Labelling - Legally we should surely be protected by 'The Consumer Protection from Unfair Trading Regulations 2008' under Part 2, Section 6 'Misleading omissions'.

Consumers need to be able to identify whether they are buying or eating normal meat or RS meat and the 95% of the British population that are non-muslims just need clear labelling in plain English... as soon as possible to decrease the demand for halal.

I feel if we don't do something NOW, we may find that normal meat will be under-produced and soon become very expensive... which would then force non-muslims to have to buy the halal alternative.

Please, please do something to hurry on a more transparent labelling system in Britain asap. I am writing to you as one of your constituents, but I also write representing over 2600 members of my BOYCOTT HALAL Facebook Group. Please do something now that will enable us to identify halal products, so that we have the choice to refuse them and buy normal products.

Yours sincerely,

(Me)

PS. The fact is that Muslims do not require Halal Products when residing in a Non-Islamic Country anyway...
Islam does have laws regarding which foods can and cannot be eaten and also on the proper method of slaughtering an animal for consumption, known as dhabihah.
IMPORTANT POINT... However if there is no other food available, then a Muslim is allowed to eat non-halal food.
SOURCE: World faiths, Teach yourself - Islam by Ruqaiyyah Maqsood. ISBN 0-340-60901-X. Page 204

Surah 2:173 states:
If one is forced because there is no other choice, neither craving nor transgressing, there is no sin in him.

So it seems that when muslims are in non-Islamic countries it's OK for them to eat non-halal food... the only requirement according to Sharia Law is to pray before consuming non-halal foods.
 

P0TTER

SPNer
Mar 25, 2011
47
67
Please back this up. If you have no proof, then your commments will be removed.
The excellent New Zealand report...
a real scientific study into stunning vs non-stunning at:

http://issuu.com/florencebergeaud-blackler/docs/veterinary-concerns

This is an argument against the LIE (Taqiyya) that muslims perpetrate... that there is no evidence that cutting an animals throat while fully conscious, then hanging it to bleed slowly to death is cruel (there is plenty of scientific evidence, contact SfA if you'd like more info).:)

Cannot seem to edit the broken link above... So I'm adding the correct link below...

Dialrel report (all 81 pages of it), go to...

http://issuu.com/florencebergeaud-blackler/docs/veterinary-concerns

This is an excellent Veterinary Report that refutes lies told by those promoting halal meat & halal products.
 
Last edited:

P0TTER

SPNer
Mar 25, 2011
47
67
invite saad sanghat about the misconception about halal meat. Can anyone shed light [on] how and who proved [that] halal meat is scientifically right and whether really [this has been] proven scientifically? Thus Jhatka is unhealthy meant?

Regards Sahni Mohinder
In UK, DEFRA has set a standard which they say is the requirement for humane slaughter.
This standard should stun the animal, so that it will be unconscious to the pain of slaughter.
BUT Halal requires the animal to be alive and conscious enough to hear the blessing at the point of slaughter.
So is it possible for a conscious animal be unconscious to the feeling of pain in the halal religious ritual?
Will all this unlabelled halal meat in our shops meet the required standard to be Certified & labelled halal? Probably not... but whether it does or not... Islam will profit from Halal Sales; Profits will be stored in Halal Bonds, Halal Gold Dinars & an indirect ZAKAT Tax will be paid to Islamic aims... one-eighth of which will be paid directly to Muslim Freedom Fighters ie. Muslim Terrorists!!!

We must avoid buying Halal or buying from Food Outlets that sell it... like ASDA & Tesco
In fact the only supermarket that does not sell fresh halal meat is MORRISONS... they have their own abattoirs, all fitted with CCTV cameras at the point of slaughter and they refuse to sell Fresh Halal. They did admit to me that they sell Frozen NZ Lamb which may be halal... but they said id it is halal it will definitely be labelled as such.


UFAW - Universities Federation For Animal Welfare

UK legislation requiring pre-slaughter stunning has certain exemptions for religious slaughter.

Supporters of both Muslim (Halal) and Jewish (Shechita) slaughter methods claim that the efficiency of the bleed out is adversely affected by stunning.

In this study, electrical stunning followed by neck cutting, and captive bolt stunning followed by neck cutting were compared with the Muslim slaughter method (neck cutting without stunning) in sheep.

Total blood loss and percentage blood loss, expressed as a percentage of live weight, were calculated and compared between groups.
In addition, the time taken to reach 25%, 50%, 75% and 90% of total blood loss was calculated and compared.

There was no apparent difference in the packed cell volume levels between groups.

Slaughter method did, however, affect meat pH and colour.
The results show that the bleed out after neck cutting is not adversely affected by electrical or captive bolt stunning; nor is an improved bleed out achieved by neck cutting without stunning...

Volume 13 Abstracts: Assessment of the impact of government animal welfare policy on farm animal welfare in the UK

R M Bennett†*, D M Broom‡, S J Henson†, R J P Blaney† and G Harper†

† Department of Agricultural and Food Economics, The University of Reading, PO Box 237, Reading RG6 6AR, UK
‡ Department of Clinical Veterinary Medicine, Madingley Road, Cambridge CB3 0ES, UK
* Correspondence: r.m.bennett@reading.ac.uk

For this study see here...
http://www.ufaw.org.uk/v13main.php

Watch out for Muslim LIES (TAQIYYA)...

Supermarkets & restaurants & other food outlets can sell halal meat & tell people that animal welfare is of great concern, and that the animals have all been stunned prior to slaughter.... but it can only be halal, if the animal could gain complete conciousness afterwards.
So the inadequately LOW-stunned animal meets the halal requirement and this ritually slaughtered meat can be used as Halal and most people are then pacified.
Summaries:
The Animal is stunned with very low current that makes little or no difference.
Muslims get Halal food, if the blood was flowing freely at point where knife cuts throat.
The rest of the public are lured into a false sense of security in thinking their food has been stunned... but ut has in fact been LOW-STUNNED... which is worse... for the animal is actually still conscious, but is now unable to move or vocalise its discomfort!
It is confusing for us non-muslims and for muslims alike, AND restaurants & supermarkets are lying to us with only half the picture being told.
That is why they are always so vague about it, whilst telling you how much they value you and take very seriously animal welfare.
 

P0TTER

SPNer
Mar 25, 2011
47
67
HOW DO YOU KNOW WHAT FOODS ARE HALAL???

Your Worldwide Guide of WHERE NOT TO EAT...
The World's Largest Guide to Halal Restaurants & Products...

http://www.zabihah.com/md.php?id=93

Notice that the HILTON Group are featured who do all the sourcing & packaging of food for TESCO! I rang up the HILTON GROUP and protested that they are pushing halal. I asked them to put RS on ALL ritually slaughtered meat so customers will know what they are buying have the freedom to choose. They ended up sounding irate.

RING the HILTON GROUP & ask why they are providing Tesco with Halal, rather than Normal Meat, when under 5% of the UK population is muslim.
Britain is a secular society based on Christian principles and it is extremely disrespectful of the muslim community to think that they can try to take control of our food chain in the way they are trying to do.
95% of the UK population are NOT muslim and these consumers are not interested in any kind of Religious Regulation or Certification in the name of allah or anyone else.

RING the HILTON GROUP & ask them to label ALL Ritually Slaughtered meat or Religious Standard products with a 'RS' Label... Re: Labelling - Legally we should surely be protected by 'The Consumer Protection from Unfair Trading Regulations 2008' under Part 2, Section 6 'Misleading omissions'.
Consumers need to be able to identify whether they are buying or eating normal meat or RS meat and the 95% of the British population that are non-muslims just need clear labelling in plain English.


Constantly updated Halal Food Guide - WHAT TO AVOID

http://www.gmwa.org.uk/foodguide2/
 

P0TTER

SPNer
Mar 25, 2011
47
67
EVENT: PROTEST AGAINST UNLABELLED HALAL AT WEMBLEY!

Location: Meet: Wembley Park Tube, then to entrances for for England v Ghana Match

Time: Tuesday, 29 March 2011 18:00

More info: The Event Organiser is Stephen Green -
See him here expose the Secret Halal Meat Scandal...

some may find the content of this video disturbing. spnadmin

See Video: YouTube - The Secret Halal Meat Scandal
We're going to Wembley from 6pm to 8pm on Tuesday 29th March to leaflet football supporters attending the England v Ghana friendly about the halal meat being served in the Wembley Stadium takeaways.
We are going to need a big team, because there are other pedestrian entrances from the south and west to cover.
STEPHEN GREEN of Christian Voice really needs to know now who is coming to this outreach in order to plan it. For more information or to let us know you are coming, please

removed personal email and phone number. not a safe internet practice. contact mr. wembley at the internet link below. :) spnadmin
http://christianvoiceuk.blogspot.com/2011/03/still-going-to-wembley.html



See info: http://www.christianvoice.org.uk/Press/press170.html

And if you cannot attend, Please COMPLAIN TO: Wembley Stadium, Managing Director, Mr Roger Maslin, Wembley Stadium, Empire Way, WEMBLEY, Middlesex HA9 0WS. Phone: 020 8795 9000.
Email: roger.maslin@wembleystadium.com
 

P0TTER

SPNer
Mar 25, 2011
47
67
Please back this up. If you have no proof, then your commments will be removed.
New Zealand Scientist's Name is Troy Gibson.
Good chap - Many studies based on the Halal Welfare Act 1999 about the Halal Code of Practice which is updated all the time.
Without doubt the halal method of slaughter is cruel, because the animal must be conscious at the time of slaughter and it is a scientific fact that has been proven - the dying animal will feel pain.
Troy Gibson is now in England researching.


removed a personal phone number. not a safe internet practice. :) spnadmin
 

Ambarsaria

ੴ / Ik▫oaʼnkār
Writer
SPNer
Dec 21, 2010
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New Zealand Scientist's Name is Troy Gibson.
Good chap - Many studies based on the Halal Welfare Act 1999 about the Halal Code of Practice which is updated all the time.
Without doubt the halal method of slaughter is cruel, because the animal must be conscious at the time of slaughter and it is a scientific fact that has been proven - the dying animal will feel pain.
Troy Gibson is now in England researching.


removed a personal phone number. not a safe internet practice. :) spnadmin
POTTER ji you are doing a great service with sharing your views and information.

I have basic question whether in a Christian lay understanding (normal working people around and about) there is a preference for Halal or Jhatka or the processing and packaging if it hides things, people don't give two hoots?

The reason for the above is that perhaps Christians and Muslims are the biggest meat consuming constituency in a religious sense. The Chinese will be next in less religious ways. So the meat packers are addressing this market. If the main meat eating constituencies are in a "don't care" state for whatever reasons they have, then it is pretty hard to make a difference.

One thing also to remember is that Muslims and Hindu religions that I know of have created pedestal places for the preachers (Maulvees and Pandits respectively). So guess what happens in a religious oriented events, best piece of the action is offered to the preacher. Be it meat for Muslims or fruits and other goodies for the Brahmins/Pandits. It is also a job creation and job protection exercise.

Interesting excerpt referencing RSPCA below,
The RSPCA definition of humane killing is: ‘an animal must be either killed instantly or rendered insensible to pain until death supervenes’. When killing animals for food, this means they must be stunned before slaughter so they immediately become unconscious. The RSPCA policy on ritual slaughter is clear: cutting throats prior to stunning is inhumane and completely unnecessary. It is opposed to inhumane methods of killing, religious customs aside, and continues to promote this view to governments and the public. Look up parts of kosher not allowed for eating, amongst other parts are (and how big is a cow's thigh in proportion to total carcass???: "...The thigh is generally not eaten, as it is not cost effective to remove all the branches of the prohibited tendon. We sell that part of the cow to the non-kosher market.

Those who follow the Torah do not eat the blood of animals because they believe that the life of the animal (literally, the soul of the animal) is contained in the blood. The only difference between Kosher meat and non-Kosher meat is the way that the animal is killed. With non-Kosher meat an animal is moved into a building where it’s head is put into a vice and a rod goes through it’s brain killing it instantly. Not great, but that’s what it is. With Kosher meat the they slit the animals throat and rip out it’s trachea while it is still alive. The animal does not die instantly and thrashes around for some time. The purpose of it is to drain the animals body of as much blood as possible in order to drain it of it’s sins and soul. The irony is the physical trauma of doing that to an animal and allowing it to thrash around releases copious amount of lactic acid and other toxins into the blood stream and muscles.

There are lot of ironic and at times sarcastic stories around like,


  • Like in a local chicken processing plant here, they have music tapes playing for making of Halal Meat
    • I assume it is pretty hard to get each chicken to face towards Mecca and hear the full Kalam (rendition regarding the sacrifice)!

Otherwise I appreciate the information you have shared and your efforts.

Sat Sri Akal.
 

P0TTER

SPNer
Mar 25, 2011
47
67
Hello there! I will answer through your email - hopefully in another colour!
POTTER ji you are doing a great service with sharing your views and information.
Thank you... I like the encouragement! :)
I have basic question whether in a Christian lay understanding (normal working people around and about) there is a preference for Halal or Jhatka or the processing and packaging if it hides things, people don't give two hoots?
Unsure what Jhatka is... if it means normal non-ritually -slaughtered meat - then it is normal meat we want - not meat that has been offered to a foreign god before we get it. To understand the Christian perspective See This Video (where Sikhs are given a mention too!)...
The Secret Halal Meat Scandal
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uMdgIk0UKG8

The reason for the above is that perhaps Christians and Muslims are the biggest meat consuming constituency in a religious sense. The Chinese will be next in less religious ways. So the meat packers are addressing this market.
It is apparent that meat packers like HILTON are not addressing the needs of the Christian Market. Nor are suppliers like HILTON (who supply & do all packaging for TESCO) providing what consumers want... they are only supplying what muslims want... and even then paradoxically, it is doubtful that muslim needs are met either, because much of this meat is slaughtered as halal, but it is not meeting the requirements of halal according to Sharia Law - All that is happening is that animals are being put through agonising deaths after living miserable lives and the slaughter process means that the product ends up being Haram, rather than Halal. A good example is the one you mention - the so-called 'Blessed Blade' process where Chicken have a taped Shahada and a mechanical death... this is not what muslims want.
If the main meat eating constituencies are in a "don't care" state for whatever reasons they have, then it is pretty hard to make a difference.
I think the reason for this attitude is that confidence was crushed with the BSE & other UK meat scares... in Canada & Australia there are still restrictions on UK imports, because of worries over BSE & other diseases. So the muslims have come along with a new regulated system, made inflated promises to Farmers (who have been in decline) and waved ££££££ notes & if we are not careful we will all be living under Sharia Law by 2025 as predicted with great loss of Freedom and the loss of our heritage in our own country! Clearly we should Uphold British Traditions & Christian Values, but with EU directives by unelected bureaucrats & weak Governments that have allowed unfettered immigration - we find ourselves having to meet the needs of minorities, while our own needs are not addressed... in fact they are ignored. My worry is that our secular society will not be able to win an argument with the muslims, because secularists are unsure whether there is a god, but muslim extremists are certain of their god & they are certain what their Koran calls for... that is to subjugate our society and bring it into submission under Islamic Rule & Sharia Law. Add Islamic appeasement, the ridiculous call for Political Correctness and we find ourselves in a society similar to Hitler's pre-war Germany... where the majority population are afraid to speak out or vocalise their demands. In reality we are all seething with anger!
One thing also to remember is that Muslims and Hindu religions that I know of have created pedestal places for the preachers (Maulvees and Pandits respectively). So guess what happens in a religious oriented events, best piece of the action is offered to the preacher. Be it meat for Muslims or fruits and other goodies for the Brahmins/Pandits. It is also a job creation and job protection exercise.
I have made a point of looking into this halal threat, but few people have time to... with work & money pressures, families are struggling to cope... So many people do not understand what is going on. We have brought up our sons to be tolerant and accepting of other people, no matter what their race, creed or colour, but now as I start to speak out our sons call me Racist - which is ridiculous, because muslims can be of any race... this is not a Race issue at all. Our sons do not understand the history or threat of Islam - my youngest so went into business with a muslim & a Punjabi unsure what religion.. at the last minute the muslim pulled out through pressure from his family - He & my son were best friends, in fact my son trained him & he respected him so much that he even used to buy the same clothes... in the end he let them use his share of the money, but could not go into business with them - but sadly the business (Estate & Lettings Agency) collapsed with the credit crunch. Now the muslim wants his share back! But my son (who has 3 children to support) still will not hear of Islam being a threat! My other son has his own IT networking business & has just employed a Polish man out of 160+ applicants, many of them English! Why? There is a Jewish saying that comes to mind... Dayenu! OMG... I could tell you so much more!
Plus the Christian Church is weakened and as we have seen in the Press in recent years, a woman sacked from her BA job for wearing a Cross; a Christian couple fined for not allowing homosexual practices under their roof; another Christian Couple prevented from fostering children, because they would not say that homosexuality is a good way to go in life. Add Drugs & Lack of Disciple in Schools & the breakdown of the Family... we are a weakened nation and susceptible to attack.

Interesting excerpt referencing RSPCA below,
Compare the Australian RSPCA website with the British RSPCA website. Our RSPCA has no up to date statistics and are still using statistics from 2003/4... because that was when the EU took over compiling statistics... and they have not published any since they took that role. So unlike Australia, we have no idea how many animals are kept or killed, how they are killed, how many are exported or imported.
There are lot of ironic and at times sarcastic stories around like,
  • Like in a local chicken processing plant here, they have music tapes playing for making of Halal Meat
Otherwise I appreciate the information you have shared and your efforts.

Sat Sri Akal.

There is so much more that I could share... but the bottom line is -
Please join us to ensure that Islam does not take over this country.
I have 3 groups on youTube... you might want to join in the discussion on my BOYCOTT HALAL community
http://www.facebook.com/pages/Boycott-Halal/160347640662396

COUNTER JIHAD ALLIANCE
http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=121494405656

Uphold British Traditions and Christian Values
http://www.facebook.com/pages/Uphold-British-Traditions-and-Christian-Values/139669399399492
Appointed by EBLEX (English Beef & Lamb)
SEE WHO'S ON THE STEERING COMMITTEE TO MAKE HALAL MAINSTREAM...
David Mainon (ASDA),
Naved Syed (Janan Meat),
Ryan Williams (EBLEX),
Adam Quinney (NFU),
Rizvan Khalid (Euro Quality Lambs),
Norman Bagley (Association of Independent Meat Suppliers),
Mullan Younes (Halal Monitoring Committee) and
Dr Shuja Shafi (Muslim Council of Britain).

http://halalfocus.net/2009/12/16/ne...us-on-halal-issues-within-the-uk-meat-sector/
 

P0TTER

SPNer
Mar 25, 2011
47
67
Unsure if you got this post...

We are opposing ritual slaughter, but in particular halal slaughter, because the Jews have only ever wanted kosher for themselves, whereas halal is a means to an end and the World Halal Forum declared at their Earls Court conference last year that they aim to take halal mainstream in the UK...
Why produce halal pork sausages... obviously they are not intended for the muslim population...
That is why we focus on stopping halal, because muslims do not want it just for themselves, but aim to make non-muslims eat it in the UK too... hence we have all been finding out over the last year that we have increasingly been sold/given UNLABELLED HALAL in our shops, food outlets and institutions (schools, hospitals, care homes, sporting venues) over at least the past ten years!

HALAL -> SHARIA LAW -> ISLAM - after all, just switch around the letter in HALAL to get ALLAH!

Kosher is an end in itself, but Halal is a means to an end - and we must not allow our food chain to be riddled with it any longer... We must push for clear labelling in plain English... a simple two letter code 'RS' denoting religious slaughter would be easy and would bypass all the distracting arguments about no-stun, post-stun, low-stun etc. that are hindering legislation being passed.

Plus we need to vocally speak out against halal and BOYCOTT HALAL and the businesses that promote it to Stop the Demand (which is often used and an excuse for over-production).

As a nation we need to demand an 'RS' Label suitable for All Religious Slaughtered meat no matter how it is stunned or what its source is.
Simple 'RS' labelling can be used on both Halal & Kosher - solely for the benefit of British consumers & their Right to choose.

It will not affect the Kosher Sales, because the Jews are wanting kosher for themselves and are not attempting a take over the UK Meat Industry & UK Food Chain.

It will affect the Halal Sales, because people will be able to choose (at last!) to refuse to buy Halal products and that will hit the Sales and thereby bring down the demand for Halal Products.

So in the end by fighting the Economic & Labelling issue we will find that we will be able to hit two Halal birds with one stone... For as demand decreases so the need for RS slaughter will decrease too and therefore there will be less animals suffering under cruel demands of Sharia Law.

Re: Labelling - Legally we should surely be protected by 'The Consumer Protection from Unfair Trading Regulations 2008' under Part 2, Section 6 'Misleading omissions'.

Consumers need to be able to identify whether they are buying or eating normal meat or RS meat and the 95% of the British population that are non-muslims just need clear labelling in plain English... as soon as possible to decrease the demand for halal.

I feel if we don't do something NOW, we may find that normal meat will be under-produced and soon become very expensive... which would then force non-muslims to have to buy the halal alternative.
 

Ambarsaria

ੴ / Ik▫oaʼnkār
Writer
SPNer
Dec 21, 2010
3,387
5,690
Potter ji I can clarify for you in terms of "Jhatka",


  • It is killing with one blow.
    • It has traditionally been beheading with a machete type straight blade or similar depending upon the size of the animal/bird. There were no stun guns, etc., few hundred years back.
      • Normally the slaughter in Punjab traditionally would have been Chicken, Goat or Lamb
        • Pork was considered cheap meat and much less popular.
        • Cows were not popular with general love of the farmers to their animals in heritage where bulls would be used in tilling the land and cows for dairy products.
          • Traditionally for Sikhs bulls would have been retired, taken care of for there service to the household and kept till they die.
        • Boars with wild animals/birds through hunting.
      • Normally they will be generally hanged or held with carcass higher and cut lower. This will bleed any warm blood of the now dead animal.
    • There is no notion of sacrifice
    • No notion of Gift to God
    • or any other religious connotation just food and part of circle of life
Hope the above is of clarity.

Sat Sri Akal.

PS: I 100% share your sentiment about the silent majority through bureaucrats being run over with regulations, etc. Unfortunately the trend is not friend as it keeps getting worse.

I believe you need to have a simple and more powerful slogan like,


  • No Muslim meat in my House
  • No sacrificial meat in my House
  • No Allah meat in my House
  • .... and such to get the message across
There are not too many options as either want to be accepting of the above or rejecting of the above. Make the silent majority take note. This will be a great service of awakening. If you link it to Sikhism (which of course supports your line of thought) it may not add to your effectiveness. You need to get the silent majority attention and not use a minority as a catalyst as that will have little chance of success as people will say "meat is meat" and are defensive against minorities like Sikhs as they have a different than silent majority persona. Just some thoughts.

Thanks.

 

P0TTER

SPNer
Mar 25, 2011
47
67
Potter ji I can clarify for you in terms of "Jhatka",


  • It is killing with one blow.
    • It has traditionally been beheading with a machete type straight blade or similar depending upon the size of the animal/bird. There were no stun guns, etc., few hundred years back.
      • Normally the slaughter in Punjab traditionally would have been Chicken, Goat or Lamb
        • Pork was considered cheap meat and much less popular.
        • Cows were not popular with general love of the farmers to their animals in heritage where bulls would be used in tilling the land and cows for dairy products.
          • Traditionally for Sikhs bulls would have been retired, taken care of for there service to the household and kept till they die.
        • Boars with wild animals/birds through hunting.
      • Normally they will be generally hanged or held with carcass higher and cut lower. This will bleed any warm blood of the now dead animal.
    • There is no notion of sacrifice
    • No notion of Gift to God
    • or any other religious connotation just food and part of circle of life
Hope the above is of clarity.

Sat Sri Akal.

PS: I 100% share your sentiment about the silent majority through bureaucrats being run over with regulations, etc. Unfortunately the trend is not friend as it keeps getting worse.

I believe you need to have a simple and more powerful slogan like,


  • No Muslim meat in my House
  • No sacrificial meat in my House
  • No Allah meat in my House
  • .... and such to get the message across
There are not too many options as either want to be accepting of the above or rejecting of the above. Make the silent majority take note. This will be a great service of awakening. If you link it to Sikhism (which of course supports your line of thought) it may not add to your effectiveness. You need to get the silent majority attention and not use a minority as a catalyst as that will have little chance of success as people will say "meat is meat" and are defensive against minorities like Sikhs as they have a different than silent majority persona. Just some thoughts.

Thanks.

WOW... Thanks so much for sharing your thoughts...
I especially liked...

That simple and more powerful slogan...

No Muslim meat in my House
No sacrificial meat in my House
No Allah meat in my House

Thank You... I will definitely use that!

I have a following of 2700+ on Facebook and I will certainly be sharing by experiences here with my friends there.
I am so pleased to be learning about the Sikh community...
I knew nothing about "Jhatka" before yesterday.
It is quick for smaller animals, but bit concerned about this non-stun method when it comes to larger animals.
Are there Sikh Slaughterhouses in England?
Can this method possibly work on a larger scale? I don't know... but it seems that Sikhs are not big meat eaters anyway, so perhaps it is right for you.
You are enriching my life as I learn more about the Sikh community.
Thanks so much for making me feel welcome! ;)
 

Ambarsaria

ੴ / Ik▫oaʼnkār
Writer
SPNer
Dec 21, 2010
3,387
5,690
POTTER ji you are most welcome.

Just to answer your query in the post,

I knew nothing about "Jhatka" before yesterday.

  • It is quick for smaller animals, but bit concerned about this non-stun method when it comes to larger animals.
    • Potter ji the requirement is quick non-agonizing death. Hence "stun" method should be OK.

    • As I explained, given the quantities and types of meats eaten it was not needed in olden days. And general method was to severe the head (around) the neck in one blow/cut.
      • In India, I was studying and staying in residences. Each resident had sundry community duties on a rotation basis. Meat was served few times a week and generally goat meat. I was assigned the day goat meat was to be prepared. My job was to ensure visually that the animal looked healthy that was to be slaughtered which I did. Then it was a simple process as one swing of the blade the head was severed from the body by people preparing the meat. The carcass was hung to let blood drain. It was skinned, cleaned and cut to need and the Goat curry was served in the evening.
  • Are there Sikh Slaughterhouses in England?
    • I live in Canada so unfortunately I cannot comment. I did live in UK for four years way back and studied there for my University degrees.
  • Can this method possibly work on a larger scale? I don't know... but it seems that Sikhs are not big meat eaters anyway, so perhaps it is right for you.
    • It may already be in wide use where Sharia, Kosher and Halal are not enforced.
      • You have to be sadistic to see animals wreathing and struggling as they bleed to death.
    • It is also quick and efficient.
Hopefully the above provides you answers to your questions.

Sat Sri Akal.
 
Last edited:

Ambarsaria

ੴ / Ik▫oaʼnkār
Writer
SPNer
Dec 21, 2010
3,387
5,690
Eating meat means you are killing (or somebody else for you) an innocant animal for your taste, So doesn't matter Jhatka or Halal. I think only difference is poor animal is killed with cruilty in term of Halal but killed anyway.
singh is king ji perhaps better to comment in the following,

http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/sikh-sikhi-sikhism/8828-fools-who-wrangle-over-flesh.html

Sat Sri Akal.


Thanks for the reminder veer ji. I have moved the post above you to the appropriate thread. :) spnadmin
 

P0TTER

SPNer
Mar 25, 2011
47
67
Halal has more recently been proved scientifically wrong.
See these reports...

The Halal Food Authority say there is no evidence that cutting an animals throat while fully conscious, then hanging it to bleed slowly to death is cruel - but clearly there is:
http://issuu.com/florencebergeaud-blackler/docs/factsheet-veterinary-concerns

This is ABSOLUTE SCIENTIFIC PROOF that without stunning, animals undergoing a neck incision would feel the pain of the knife.
http://www.hsa.org.uk/Resources/Press/Media release Humane Slaughter Award October 2009.pdf
Humane Slaughter Award winner provides evidence for pain in slaughter without stunning. The results were reported in a series of five papers published in the New Zealand Veterinary Journal in April 2009.
 

Auzer

SPNer
Feb 19, 2012
111
125
I don't know about scientifically proven right thingy but Halal slaughter is probably less painful to animal. Any biology major will tell you that when to traditionally slaughter the cow , it cuts off its jugular vein and hence stopping the supply of blood to the brain. If brain isn't working or getting enough blood-supply(oxygen) , one would NOT feel pain. But again , many arguments can be given against it too.

Potter your anti-halal page is more anti-Islam page actually. Why you Christians feel THIS MUCH insecure of Islam,eh? Your slandering only makes Christianity look like a joke and nothing else. Guys like you give bad name to other Christians too.

Ambarsaria you seem to be another anti-Islam hater :mundabhangra:
 
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