Nanak Is The Guru, Nanak Is The Lord Himself

[BhagatSingh]

Re: Is it So??

Thanks for your reply. However, it answers the question only in a round about manner. You have treated all the guru sahibaan as different. They are 'one jot' as they had the same spirit hence treating the gurus as separate entities/gurus in the present context may not be ok.

Secondly, it is stated in Gurbani itself that the Creator Himself cannot take the route of Incarnation. I presume that the translation is incorrect. If we take the translation at face value the entire edifice of sikhi will have to undergo a change. Guru Nanak ji cannot be God/creator as he has stated many things in the eulogisation of the Almighty.One cannot go on praising oneself.It becomes superfluous and redundant and meaningless. Incidently it is in Gurbani that it is stated that the Creator creates Himself. If we take Guru Nanak as the Creator the above does not stand to truth as Guru nanak did not create HIMself.

I think it would be better if some third person guides us. So far as I am concerned I take it as a case of wrong translation /interpretation.
The following line from japu ji sahib shows that Guru nanak ji cannot be the creator.


siq suhwxu sdw min cwau ] (4-16, jpu, mÚ 1)
He is Beautiful, True and Eternally Joyful.
and

jw krqw isrTI kau swjy Awpy jwxY soeI ] (4-19, jpu, mÚ 1)
The Creator who created this creation-only He Himself knows.


Let some senior member may help and guide us.
I would reiterate that it is only a case of misinterpretation.

If the creator is the Supreme Being, with powers levels beyond infinity. Being infinite him/herself, and there is nothing he/she can not do, then why can't he/she incarnate? :wink:

 

[Sikh80]

Re: Is it So?

Answereing Bhagat Singh,


Because Creator creates and never dies.

Hence HE shall not take the route where there is life and death.

 

[Archived_Member_19]

Re: Is it So?

what if i say you that death is not an "end" ?

please understand that life and death are two sides of same coin.

nothing is permanent....

 

[Sikh80]

Re: Is it So?

what if i say you that death is not an "end" ?

please understand that life and death are two sides of same coin.

nothing is permanent....

Ok. pl. continue that you want to arrive at.

 

[Archived_member2]

Re: Is it So?

Pray Truth for all and say Satsriakaal!
Dear all!

Some prefer to write "Dhan Dhan Siri Guru Nanak Dev Ji Sache Paatshah De Paavan Bachan."
In my view the correct expression is "Dhan Dhan Siri Guru Nanak Dev Ji Sache Paatshah De Paavan Printed words."

Perhaps someone may guide the readers why Naanak Jee has used the word Naanaku twice in this Vaak.

guru nwnku nwnku hir soie ]4]7]9] (864-19, goNf, mÚ 5)
gu{ nwnku nwnku hir soe ]
guru naanaku naanaku hari soi. ||



Balbir Singh

 

[Sikh80]

Re: Is it So?

You have a very valid point there. We will have to sit with some grammar of Gurbani and take the help Of it.

In the meantime I am posting the following that clearly states that The creator and creativity etc.
pauVI ] (957-6)
Pauree:
QtxhwrY Qwtu Awpy hI QitAw ] (957-6, rwmklI, mÚ 5)
The Creator Lord created the Creation.
Awpy pUrw swhu Awpy hI KitAw ] (957-6, rwmklI, mÚ 5)
He Himself is the perfect Banker; He Himself earns His profit.
Awpy kir pwswru Awpy rMg ritAw ] (957-6, rwmklI, mÚ 5)
He Himself made the expansive Universe; He Himself is imbued with joy.
kudriq kIm n pwie AlK bRhmitAw ] (957-7, rwmklI, mÚ 5)
The value of God's almighty creative power cannot be estimated.
Agm AQwh byAMq prY pritAw ] (957-7, rwmklI, mÚ 5)
He is inaccessible, unfathomable, endless, the ****hest of the far.
Awpy vf pwiqswhu Awip vjIritAw ] (957-8, rwmklI, mÚ 5)
He Himself is the greatest Emperor; He Himself is His own Prime Minister.
koie n jwxY kIm kyvfu mitAw ] (957-8, rwmklI, mÚ 5)
No one knows His worth, or the greatness of His resting place.
scw swihbu Awip gurmuiK prgitAw ]1] (957-8, rwmklI, mÚ 5)
He Himself is our True Lord and Master. He reveals Himself to the Gurmukh. ||1||


It is amply clear that the creator is a separate entity altogether and is not to be mixed with the Gurus .They might have merged with the almighty but they came thru. the route of the 'time' /kaal.' hence they cannot be the creator.

added****************************
Besides the above the following lines are also clear indicator of the thing being discussed.
guir pUrY mylwieAw jq dyKw qq soie ](957-12, rwmklI, mÚ 5)
The Perfect Guru has united me with Him; wherever I look, there He is.
jn nwnk so pRBu syivAw iqsu jyvfu Avru n koie ]2] (957-13, rwmklI, mÚ 5)
Servant Nanak serves that God; there is no other as great as He is. ||2||

 

[Sikh80]

Re: Is it So?

It is from the Bani Of Guru Arjan Dev ji Maharaj that further establishes that he has obtained the creator who is unfathomable. The Term obtained has been retained here as I do not want to alter the translator's version. None theless the point is proved that Gurus were not Creator.

DMnu su idnsu sMjogVw ijqu ifTw gur drswru ] (958-10, rwmklI, mÚ 5)
blessed is that day, and that opportunity, when I gazed upon the Blessed Vision of the Guru's Darshan.
mn kIAw ieCw pUrIAw hir pwieAw Agm Apwru ] (958-11, rwmklI, mÚ 5)
The mind's desires are fulfilled, when the inaccessible, unfathomable Lord is obtained.

 

[Sikh80]

Re: Is it So?

jwxY ibrQw jIA kI kdy n moVY rMgu ] (958-17, rwmklI, mÚ 5)
He alone knows the state of my soul; He never ignores my love.
hir ieko myrw mslqI BMnx GVn smrQu ] (958-18, rwmklI, mÚ 5)
He is my only counselor, all-powerful to destroy and create.
hir ieko myrw dwqwru hY isir dwiqAw jg hQu ] (958-18, rwmklI, mÚ 5)
The Lord is my only Giver. He places His hand upon the heads of the generous in the world.
hir ieksY dI mY tyk hY jo isir sBnw smrQu ] (958-19, rwmklI, mÚ 5)
I take the Support of the One Lord alone; He is all-powerful, over the heads of all.
siqguir sMqu imlwieAwmsqik Dir kY hQu ] (958-19, rwmklI, mÚ 5)
The Saint, the True Guru, has united me with the Lord. He placed His hand on my forehead.
THese are also incontinuity of the above Post.

 

[simpy]

Re: Is it So?

In this thread what me neech is learning that some are saying-Guru is not the Creator. SO IT MEANS THEY KNOW WHAT EXACTLY THE CREATOR IS. WOW: that's funny as these same fellows have said before 'they dont', and actually were questioning the same thing!!!!!!!!!!!!!


First Post States: this person doubts the translations (from the same source)

my observation: that translation does not suit his belief.


Recent Posts States: this person believes the translations (from the same source)............
my observation: because he can easily manipulate the meaning to suit his argument


very funny

 

[Archived_member2]

Re: Is it So?

Pray Truth for all and say Satsriakaal!
Dear all!

Some plead. Guru Is God.
Gurdev says Guru is EEsar, Guru is Gorakh Barmaa and Guru is Parbatee Maaee.

May I ask if Parbatee Maaee is God? Perhaps God Mom (Maaee) on this forum can guide readers?


Balbir Singh

 

[Sikh80]

Re: Is it So?

Awpy kIqo rcnu Awpy hI riqAw ] (966-10, rwmklI, mÚ 5)
He Himself created the Universe; He Himself imbues it.
Awpy hoieE ieku Awpy bhu BiqAw ] (966-10, rwmklI, mÚ 5)
He Himself is One, and He Himself has numerous forms.
Awpy sBnw mMiJ Awpy bwhrw ] (966-11, rwmklI, mÚ 5)
He Himself is within all, and He Himself is beyond them.
Awpy jwxih dUir Awpy hI jwhrw ] (966-11, rwmklI, mÚ 5)
He Himself is known to be far away, and He Himself is right here.
Awpy hovih gupqu Awpy prgtIAY ] (966-11, rwmklI, mÚ 5)
He Himself is hidden, and He Himself is revealed.
kImiq iksY n pwie qyrI QtIAY ] (966-12, rwmklI, mÚ 5)
No one can estimate the value of Your Creation, Lord.
gihr gMBIru AQwhu Apwru Agxqu qUM ] (966-12, rwmklI, mÚ 5)
You are deep and profound, unfathomable, infinite and invaluable.
nwnk vrqY ieku ieko ieku qUM ]22]1]2] suDu ] (966-13, rwmklI, mÚ 5)
O Nanak, the One Lord is all-pervading. You are the One and only. ||22||1||2|| Sudh||

HI surinder Ji,
The above lines are from Granth sahib ji maharaj where in The Gurus/ Bhagats are stating clearly that THE creator HIMSELF has created this creation. Nanak ji was also HIS creation. Nanak ji cannot be the creator howsoever great, eulogisation be done by the sikhs.

 

[simpy]

Re: Is it So?

Nanak ji cannot be the creator howsoever great, eulogisation be done by the sikhs.

Oh yes, this is not an EULOGISATION. It is a fact that is OUR DHAN DHAN GURU SAHIBAAN is teaching us. Every Guru is God/Nirankaar.

You are imagining that Guru is not God, not me neech or what you calling Sikh.

So it makes you a non-Sikh, based on your statement. Wow, thanks

 

[BhagatSingh]

Re: Is it So?

Oh yes, this is not an EULOGISATION. It is a fact that is OUR DHAN DHAN GURU SAHIBAAN is teaching us. Every Guru is God/Nirankaar.

You say All is God and therefore Guru Jis are God. But that means you and I are God as well. Do you agree that based on your logic, you and I are God?

You are imagining that Guru is not God, not me neech or what you calling Sikh.

So it makes you a non-Sikh, based on your statement. Wow, thanks

If being a non-Sikh means thinking that Gurus cannot be compared to God then I am happy being a non-Sikh. Thank you.

 

[Sikh80]

Re: Is it So?

By making remarks against any one you do not become a better person. It is better that you stick to the comments on Gurbani and avoid personal scaths. Some people have some compulsions and they cannot stop themselves from slandering. I hope you have no such compulsions. On one hand you are stating that personal attacks are made by the members and in the same breath you indulge yourself in the same.
Funny Surinder,

 

[BhagatSingh]

Re: Is it So?

Answereing Bhagat Singh,


Because Creator creates and never dies.

Hence HE shall not take the route where there is life and death.

so there is something more powerful than the creator?
according to you it is life and death. even the creator is bound by laws. He/She just chooses to not step in? How does this make him the ALMIGHTY then?? So there is somthing that the creator cannot do? :shifty:
I am assuming that the Creator is fact also the Supreme Being(SB). Unless they are different then we have two Gods.:whisling: just sumtin to think about...

 

[Sikh80]

Re: Is it So?

Surinder ji,


There is only ONE GOD/Creator.
I wish Guru Nanak ji was that.

But It is a wish only.The Bottom line ;One can be GOD- LIKE but not GOD else we will have mutiple GODS a situation where we have more than one GOD that is against the sikh philosphy. I think you know this but are indulging in this just to irritate.

 

[BhagatSingh]

Re: Is it So?

Surinder ji,


There is only ONE GOD/Creator.
I wish Guru Nanak ji was that.

But It is a wish only.The Bottom line ;One can be GOD- LIKE but not GOD else we will have mutiple GODS a situation where we have more than one GOD that is against the sikh philosphy. I think you know this but are indulging in this just to irritate.

I think Surinder Ji is hindu. :}{}{}:

 

[simpy]

Re: Is it So?

KHOOB BAHUT KHOOB, me neech very well know that Guru Di Agyaa na mannan wala kon hai..........

 

[Sikh80]

Re: Is it So?

Surinder ji,
You have not given your comment on the 2 posts that i have made. Kindly do.

 

[simpy]

Re: Is it So?

Surinder laee ta GOD IS GURU AND GURU IS GOD................ what else you want from me neech...............