Many thanks. It makes a difference. As Gyani ji is a giani, his words carry weight. And I would like all to be clear as to what he is actually endorsing and the interpretations of others.
Professor Sarbjit Singh Dhunda
- Status
Many thanks. It makes a difference. As Gyani ji is a giani, his words carry weight. And I would like all to be clear as to what he is actually endorsing and the interpretations of others.
Wrong on this point.
:angryadminkaur:
This thread is about the kathas of Professor Sarbjit Singh. It is not about Jap Sahib, though the topic is related and cannot escape being mentioned and discussed. Let us discuss the professor in the main. Thanks. :angryadminkaur:
Aristotle ji
I too hope I have not offended you in my post, apologies if I have.
"And about the Chaupaee, there are many Chaupaees in the Dasam, are there any pre-SRM (I mean the time before the SRM was drafted) references for the Chaupaee to be recited as the Nitnem??Any references or leads could prove very useful in this regard.2
Choupai sahib was definitely recited before SRM. I will try to get references. SRM would not just have introduced these banis into Amrit Sanchar and Nitnem if they were not already being recited. Gurmukhs and SRM committee members such as bhai Vir Singh, Kahn Singh Nabha, Akali Kaur Singh etc all recited sri Choupai Sahib and sri Jaap Sahib.
As for which Choupai Sahib to recite , we should recite the panthic version in SRM:
"Meditating on Nam (Divine Substance) and Scriptures
Article IV
ii) The Benti Chaupai of the tenth Guru (beginning "hamri karo hath dai rachha" and ending with "dusht dokh te leho bachai"
As for Jaap Sahib:
"Even the Lag-matras of Jaap Sahib are different in different Gutkas, the fact is even acknowledged by the SGPC."
This is not a valid argument. Differences in lag-matra are not limited to Jaap Sahib. Their are differences in lag-matra in different saroops of Guru Granth Sahib. The fault lies with the writer of the saroop and not Guru Sahib. The lag-matra were standardised by comparing puratan (old) granths of Guru Granth Sahib, however their are still faults that need urgent rectification. Just because of a few differences in lag-matra we cannot just dismiss Jaap Sahib otherwise we can use same argument for our current Guru.
"How can we authenticate a Bani sans a set original draft??"
We do not even have the original Damdami Saroop (Gurgaddi was given to this saroop at Hazur Sahib by Guru Gobind Singh) in our possesion. Just because we do not have the original granth in our possession this does not mean we dismiss the whole granth. The best method is to collect as many old saroops as possible and compare the bani between them as was done by SGPC for Guru Granth Sahib ji. Joginder Singh Talwara of Akhand Kirtani Jatha spent many years doing research but SGPC did not listen to him.
"The thing I wanted to highlight was that we don't have any credible reference to support the Jaap Sahib as an authentic Bani, let alone its being Guru's own composition. All we have are Rehatnamas or Bhai Nand Lal's Bani. I don't think we would be able to defend it when in discussion with a third party."
For me sources from bhai Nand Lal Singh ji bani is a good credible source. SRM comittee, SRM maryada, AKJ, Taksal, kathavachaks like Pinderpal Singh, Sant Singh Maskeen......................the list goes on and on. The majority of the panth supports this bani whether they be from a taksal, jatha and non-affilliated Gursikhs like Pinderpal Singh ji and Prof Sahib Singh ji.
You ask for 'credible reference'. What is credible reference? Bhai Nand Lal Singh ji's bani can even be recited in kirtan as per SRM. Then their are rehitname, then we can look into jeevans (lives) of various Gursikhs. If this is not enough I dont know what is.
SPN admin, it was you that actually posted the video on Jaap Sahib, otherwise I would not have discussed sri Jaap Sahib. This will be my last post on sri Jaap Sahib, no need to delete.
Rabb Rakhe
I too hope I have not offended you in my post, apologies if I have.
"And about the Chaupaee, there are many Chaupaees in the Dasam, are there any pre-SRM (I mean the time before the SRM was drafted) references for the Chaupaee to be recited as the Nitnem??Any references or leads could prove very useful in this regard.2
Choupai sahib was definitely recited before SRM. I will try to get references. SRM would not just have introduced these banis into Amrit Sanchar and Nitnem if they were not already being recited. Gurmukhs and SRM committee members such as bhai Vir Singh, Kahn Singh Nabha, Akali Kaur Singh etc all recited sri Choupai Sahib and sri Jaap Sahib.
As for which Choupai Sahib to recite , we should recite the panthic version in SRM:
"Meditating on Nam (Divine Substance) and Scriptures
Article IV
ii) The Benti Chaupai of the tenth Guru (beginning "hamri karo hath dai rachha" and ending with "dusht dokh te leho bachai"
As for Jaap Sahib:
"Even the Lag-matras of Jaap Sahib are different in different Gutkas, the fact is even acknowledged by the SGPC."
This is not a valid argument. Differences in lag-matra are not limited to Jaap Sahib. Their are differences in lag-matra in different saroops of Guru Granth Sahib. The fault lies with the writer of the saroop and not Guru Sahib. The lag-matra were standardised by comparing puratan (old) granths of Guru Granth Sahib, however their are still faults that need urgent rectification. Just because of a few differences in lag-matra we cannot just dismiss Jaap Sahib otherwise we can use same argument for our current Guru.
"How can we authenticate a Bani sans a set original draft??"
We do not even have the original Damdami Saroop (Gurgaddi was given to this saroop at Hazur Sahib by Guru Gobind Singh) in our possesion. Just because we do not have the original granth in our possession this does not mean we dismiss the whole granth. The best method is to collect as many old saroops as possible and compare the bani between them as was done by SGPC for Guru Granth Sahib ji. Joginder Singh Talwara of Akhand Kirtani Jatha spent many years doing research but SGPC did not listen to him.
"The thing I wanted to highlight was that we don't have any credible reference to support the Jaap Sahib as an authentic Bani, let alone its being Guru's own composition. All we have are Rehatnamas or Bhai Nand Lal's Bani. I don't think we would be able to defend it when in discussion with a third party."
For me sources from bhai Nand Lal Singh ji bani is a good credible source. SRM comittee, SRM maryada, AKJ, Taksal, kathavachaks like Pinderpal Singh, Sant Singh Maskeen......................the list goes on and on. The majority of the panth supports this bani whether they be from a taksal, jatha and non-affilliated Gursikhs like Pinderpal Singh ji and Prof Sahib Singh ji.
You ask for 'credible reference'. What is credible reference? Bhai Nand Lal Singh ji's bani can even be recited in kirtan as per SRM. Then their are rehitname, then we can look into jeevans (lives) of various Gursikhs. If this is not enough I dont know what is.
SPN admin, it was you that actually posted the video on Jaap Sahib, otherwise I would not have discussed sri Jaap Sahib. This will be my last post on sri Jaap Sahib, no need to delete.
Rabb Rakhe
Archived_Member16
SPNer
A MUST WATCH VIDEO: Bhai Sarabjit Singh Dhunda
A MUST WATCH VIDEO:
Bhai sarabjit singh dhunda 30 july 2011 part 2 of 5
Link: http://youtu.be/85wbUt3xHVM
This article has been merged with an existing thread. Thanks, spnadmin
A MUST WATCH VIDEO:
Bhai sarabjit singh dhunda 30 july 2011 part 2 of 5
Link: http://youtu.be/85wbUt3xHVM
This article has been merged with an existing thread. Thanks, spnadmin
Re: A MUST WATCH VIDEO: Bhai sarabjit singh dhunda
So true.
So true.
Absolutly wrong you are..
Prof. Sarbjit Singh Dhunda is one of the greatest scholars we have in our day and age who is actually spreading the true meaning and defination of SIKHI. As you quoted 'Prof is against reciting the Guru's name', he is not. Instead he is saying that by just reciting the name will not bring any revolution in your life unless you bring that name in your everyday life, not like a lot of so called religious sants/or general people who keep saying Ram-Ram/Waheguru-Waheguru but are corrupt in their everyday dealings in their day's work. Read in Shri Guru Granth Sahib,"Ram Ram karta sab jag phire, Ram na paya jaye". Prof is one of the most logical person I have listened to in my life, who actually makes sense. People who say you dont bring logic into religion I would like to remind them that Sikhi was created out of the great logic that Guru Nanak Ji refused to wear the brahmin's Janeyuu. And you should understand this belief is a total nonsense that one would meet total salvation by just reciting God's name but without changing their everyday behaviour or without having an honest and generous lifestyle. If somebody believes in such a thing and still call himself/herself a Sikh I pity that person's ignorance. I am proud to say that the religion I believe in is the most practical religion/belief by following which one can bring a great revolution in one's life and the life after that revolution is the true Salvation our Sikhism teaches us about.
Prof. Sarbjit Singh Dhunda is one of the greatest scholars we have in our day and age who is actually spreading the true meaning and defination of SIKHI. As you quoted 'Prof is against reciting the Guru's name', he is not. Instead he is saying that by just reciting the name will not bring any revolution in your life unless you bring that name in your everyday life, not like a lot of so called religious sants/or general people who keep saying Ram-Ram/Waheguru-Waheguru but are corrupt in their everyday dealings in their day's work. Read in Shri Guru Granth Sahib,"Ram Ram karta sab jag phire, Ram na paya jaye". Prof is one of the most logical person I have listened to in my life, who actually makes sense. People who say you dont bring logic into religion I would like to remind them that Sikhi was created out of the great logic that Guru Nanak Ji refused to wear the brahmin's Janeyuu. And you should understand this belief is a total nonsense that one would meet total salvation by just reciting God's name but without changing their everyday behaviour or without having an honest and generous lifestyle. If somebody believes in such a thing and still call himself/herself a Sikh I pity that person's ignorance. I am proud to say that the religion I believe in is the most practical religion/belief by following which one can bring a great revolution in one's life and the life after that revolution is the true Salvation our Sikhism teaches us about.
- Aug 28, 2010
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It is surrising to note the reference of Bhai Nanad Lal ji as Bhai Nand Lal Singh Ji.
Bhai Nand Lal ji never had taken "Khande Dee Pahul" to become Khalsaa and be refered as SINGH.
Such seems to be the latest injection which is not true at all. How it is not that
the Document is full with such injectios only.?
Prakash.S.Bagga
Bhai Nand Lal ji never had taken "Khande Dee Pahul" to become Khalsaa and be refered as SINGH.
Such seems to be the latest injection which is not true at all. How it is not that
the Document is full with such injectios only.?
Prakash.S.Bagga
SaintSoldier1699
SPNer
Prof Sarbjit Singh has not denied that we shouldn't read Jaap Sahib, he is per SRM. The video made with someone pointing at a Gutka is not verified and even he says was fabricated to defame him.
I think everyone needs to take a step back which would let the issue cool down a little and give breathing space to all the hot heat thats been created since Prof Darshan Singh brought up the Dasam Granth issue.
The average Sikh was not even aware of a Dasam Granth - mainly because it was something that existed in Nihang circles and Taksals. Our so called leadership does not have the capabilities to deal with any of these "tough" issues as its inclined to please the masses and politician and dera's because they hold all the power; moneywise and peoplewise.
Average joes like me who haven't even completed a full reading of our official Guru Granth Sahib, are now discussing a whole different granth and are getting spammed by messages saying we should read it as its official and we need it to become a "Warrior". Furthering us away from the basic of goal of understanding our official Guru Granth sahib.
I think the message is out there that this is an issue, we are not going to get closure, if anything there will most likely be action to formalise this "Dasam Granth" as the Akal Takht jathedar himself believes in the Saint comes from Guru Granth Sahib and Soldier from Dasam Granth (which in itself is a fallacy as there were numerous warriors before Guru Gobind Singh Ji even start writing).
Prof Sarbjit Singh should continue work to get the true message out of Guru Granth Sahib as he has been and deter from any Anti Dasam Granth parchar until the time is right for the panth to sort this out sensibly. Because all this marketing against him is so the so called jathedars will "excommunicate" him to stop his parchar full stop - leading on to manipulation of Gurmat Gian College and other missionary institutes. Prof Darshan Singh was reasonably unaffected by the excommunication because he lives in Canada which gives him leverage to continue to do parchar.
I think everyone needs to take a step back which would let the issue cool down a little and give breathing space to all the hot heat thats been created since Prof Darshan Singh brought up the Dasam Granth issue.
The average Sikh was not even aware of a Dasam Granth - mainly because it was something that existed in Nihang circles and Taksals. Our so called leadership does not have the capabilities to deal with any of these "tough" issues as its inclined to please the masses and politician and dera's because they hold all the power; moneywise and peoplewise.
Average joes like me who haven't even completed a full reading of our official Guru Granth Sahib, are now discussing a whole different granth and are getting spammed by messages saying we should read it as its official and we need it to become a "Warrior". Furthering us away from the basic of goal of understanding our official Guru Granth sahib.
I think the message is out there that this is an issue, we are not going to get closure, if anything there will most likely be action to formalise this "Dasam Granth" as the Akal Takht jathedar himself believes in the Saint comes from Guru Granth Sahib and Soldier from Dasam Granth (which in itself is a fallacy as there were numerous warriors before Guru Gobind Singh Ji even start writing).
Prof Sarbjit Singh should continue work to get the true message out of Guru Granth Sahib as he has been and deter from any Anti Dasam Granth parchar until the time is right for the panth to sort this out sensibly. Because all this marketing against him is so the so called jathedars will "excommunicate" him to stop his parchar full stop - leading on to manipulation of Gurmat Gian College and other missionary institutes. Prof Darshan Singh was reasonably unaffected by the excommunication because he lives in Canada which gives him leverage to continue to do parchar.
Abneet
SPNer
- Apr 7, 2013
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This should set it once for all on all views of Dhunda. Take a look.
http://www.panthic.org/articles/5488
http://www.panthic.org/articles/5488
This is JUST ONE of the many many instances of how this so called Panthic.Org operates..its the most untruthful sites...
http://www.khalsanews.org/newspics/...lot to defame Shivteg Singh - KS Bathinda.htm
Peddling LIES is their Forte..if they cant touch some one like Dhunda on "personal behaviour" then they use different methods..and IF they can fabricate "personal scum" about Shivtegh Singh..then they use that method...against Prof Darshan Singh they fabricated and faked DVDs and Cut and paste out of context phrases..etc etc...
TRUTH SACH..SATNAAM is a word the Panthic.org guys never heard of...
http://www.khalsanews.org/newspics/...lot to defame Shivteg Singh - KS Bathinda.htm
TRUTH SACH..SATNAAM is a word the Panthic.org guys never heard of...
http://www.khalsanews.org/newspics/...lot to defame Shivteg Singh - KS Bathinda.htm
Bagga ji..these people are going overboard..he he...They even made an IMPOSTER who is ANONYMOUS and a FAKE..an entity who didnt write his name to his Vaar written after Guru Gobind Singh Jis time.....but ADDED it to the 40 Vaars of Bhai Gurdass who llived in Guiru Arjun jis time...as Bhai GURDASS "SINGH"....can you beleive THAT ??? IF Sikhs can be as wild as that...its easy to beleive they woudl love to have Nanad Lal "Singh" too..and Bhai GHAIYAH "SINGH..etc etc....as IF every SIKH today is a "SINGH" ???? why would it be different back then ?? why would everyone be a SINGH ??
Abneet
SPNer
- Apr 7, 2013
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Where did Dhunda get his parchar training from?
- Jan 31, 2011
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life, rather than rhetoric
I would rather ask..Where did Panthic.Org get its LIES from ??...LIES in Dhundas case. Darshan Singh Ragis case, Shivteg Singhs case..and many many more..( too many to list actually). Theres a Punjabi saying..to test if the Daal is cooked..just take out ONE danna and squash it...if its cooked the danna will eb squashy..if its HARD..then the daal is kuchee...uncooked...the Panthic.org daal is Kachee all the way...in fact its full of KURRKURROOS ( dannas that can never get cooked)..
Abneet ji,
Guru fateh.
Is this your opinion based on this one lousy, biased anti Gurmat interview or have you had preconceived bias against Dhunda for some other reasons?
Please clarify.
I have no idea if you are aware of this but Panthic.org and many other sites related to it are for the Prakash of the so called Dasam Granth along with the Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji, our only Guru which is a NO, NO.
I have read the whole interview which is one sided and biased and full of gotcha attitude which is against Sikhi values because that makes the interviewers dishonest which is very clear from it.
Here is part of it:
In the other thread, "Is this the end", you suggest that changes should be made in the SRM and here you want no changes as far as the interview with Dhunda is concerned. Why these doublespeak/standard on your part?
So, please elaborate what is your real position?
Following is your post about it:
http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/sikh-sikhi-sikhism/42426-is-this-the-end-5.html#post198226
Let me ask you the same questions:
1. Please explain Gurbani/Kirtan Recitation per Sikh Rehat Maryada as you understand it?
If one needs changes to the SRM as you said before with which I happen to agree, then what is your point here?
2. Naam Simran-Abhyaas
Please explain the modus operandi of the above according to your own understanding.
3.Nitnem Banees
If SRM should be changed as we both agree, then shouldn't we also have a new look at the Nitnem Baanis which are not part of the Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji, our only Guru?
If Guru Gobind ji had recited “his baanis” , during Khandei di pahul, then the logical conclusion is that he must have added to them to the Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji as he did his dad’s, our 9th Guru?
Why this discrepancy and undermining of our 10th Guru who did so much for our Sikhi?
4. Association with Ex-communicated individuals
This is again the changes of SRM that you want. Akaal Takhat has ex-communicated the Jathedar of Patna Sahib for bigamy bit they still have association with him?
Why this hypocricy on the part of Jathedars and do you agree with it?
5. Sri Akal Takht Sahib HukamNamays and Sri Guru Gobind Singh Ji’s Banee.
I have asked the first part above and the second part still remains unanswered. Who except Guru Gobind Singh ji knows which is his poetry and why he didn't add it to the Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji so it could be called Gurbani.
About Dhunda,I personally find him a very intelligent, pragmatic and well thought Sikh. Many have the right to disagree. The Dasam Granth proponents do not like his stance for the reasons given above and this stance is unSikhi one.
In my opinion, it is the duty of every Sikh to question the past rituals and other things that do not jive with the Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji. Sikhi was founded on this. If Guru Nanak had not questioned the significance of Janeio to the Pandit, we all would be still wearing one and also throwing water towards the Sun and would be performing many other nonsensical anti Sikhi rituals
Nothing is etched in stone except the Gurbani in the Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji which is not debatable. But the rest is all debatable and it should be debated quite often in order to improve because we learn new things from Gurbani everyday provided we are its practitioners, not parrots who chant some mantras mindlessly.
Lastly, about the SRM, I wrote the following about the changes many years ago.
http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/hard-talk/14705-thoughts-on-the-sikh-rehat-maryada.html
Regards
Tejwant Singh
Last edited:
Abneet
SPNer
- Apr 7, 2013
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Gyani ji, I never did a background check of Panthic.org, but could you tell me where did Dhunda get his training just curious?
Abneet
SPNer
- Apr 7, 2013
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Again this is the first time I am hearing about fake cases by Panthic.org. I have to look into that. On the topic of DG, I am not for or against the prakash of DG. I won't have any say in the DG but I do believe its Guru Gobind Singh's Bani.
1) Kirtan from GGS,DG, or works of Bhai Nand Lal ji's or Bhai Gurdas Ji can be only performed in gurdwara from what I know. I believe that AKJ kirtan is fine. Others have different opinions on them but thats mine.
The topic of Raagmala I am not very educated about but there more concerning issues of the SRM to look at. If you can explain your view on Raagmala I'd be interested to know or is your view in your SRM thread.
2) Vaheguru Mantar or Mool Mantar for Naam Japna. Dhunda who I believe to see the view of Naam Simran as pointless. Nothing should be changed on this topic. More Sikhs are looking at this practice to be useless but those who practice it know the importance.
3) Nitnem Banis today are fine with me but is there a change needed to read specific Banis each day? Nitnem is the bare minimum for Sikhs. We can do as much Bani as we want. If Sikhs want nitnem consisted of Banis only from GGS then I am fine with that. Today many are arguing over Jaap Sahib but to me I'll read it for my own benefit as I believe it is written by Guru Gobind Singh.
4) I think I knew of that meetings with ex-communicated individuals. Look I see the Akal Takht Jathedar not doing the right things for the Panth at the moment. In the future if changes do occur to the SRM, then I would agree that no Sikh should communicate with excommunicated individuals. But are you sure this isn't in the maryada already?
5) Every gurdwara has to follow Akal Takht Hukamnamas. In order for this to work there has to be a Sikh takht or lets say in this case a council in each big country of Sikhs to make sure that things are running properly in gurdwaras. This is a plan that is currently being decided by Sikhs in UK and I have just a little idea how its going to work. On Guru Gobind Singh Ji not adding it to GGS, there isn't a reason. Dasam Granth is essentially for the Khalsa. To me Guru Gobind Singh Ji made this the arm also so Sarbloh Granth and GGS is the body. This is how I view it as.
A meeting in the future with Sikh leaders who have no political ties and have only Sikh interests only for the Panth should be remodeling the SRM. A leader from taksal, akj, and nihungs have to be in that meeting in order to have combination of interests for the whole panth. After the remodeling is done, there is one meryada once for all. Now the chances of this happening is very low, but there is hope.
Additional changes that need to happen is the definition of a Sikh. Nowadays we have sub-Sikh names like sehajdhari and keshdhari.
Also in the meryada I would like to see a change on how Gurdwara politics and committees are made and picked. If a Punj Pyare would be a good choice for committee rather than just big moneyman Singhs who have no love for Sikhi.Also parchar should be #1 aim in a gurdwara.
To me no discussion on DG are allowed but it has already been declared officially Dasvee Patshaah's Bani. Now we can look back when they declared it and see how they did it and who was involved. Then questions might pop up and need to be answered. I am currently sticking with learning from GGS but will do full Nitnem with Guru Gobind Singh Ji's banis.
Abneet Singh ji,
Guru Fateh,
Have you studied the DG? If you have, then you should be aware of its erotic contents that we cannot talk about in front of our mothers, sisters, daughters and other ladies. From your response above, it implies that you have. We should seriously discuss this later after your response because it is very important as you claim that you would not mind the Prakash of the Pornographic contents of DG along with SGGS, our only Guru.
Will wait for your response so we can discuss this further as it is a serious Panthic matter.
When you say Kirtan of DG can be performed in the Gurdwara, are you implying that all the pornographic stuff in the DG can be sung in front of the ladies that are related to you and me? Are you serious? Are you sure you have studied the DG?
Regarding Raagmala, I have my doubts because many claim that it has all the Raags in it which is not true and secondly, no one knows who wrote it and most of it does not make sense.
It depends how you define by Naam Japna. I am against parroting too. Jap ji teaches us not to parrot but: “Gaviei, Sunihei, Munn Rakhei Bhao” which is true Naam Simran and we are commanded to obey that. In other words, Singing can move one from the inside, Listening can make us grasp the message and Practicing the teachings of SGGS after listening sends us to the Gurmat Marg, not parroting some words for hours which is meaningless and an insult to Gurbani, our only anchor.
Anything is bare minimum if we do not make it our second nature by practicing it in our daily life. It matters naught how many nitnems. Japjis and other paaths one does.
Can you please show me from the SGGS where ex-communication is allowed? If you refuse to communicate with another ‘Sikh’ a learner, a teacher, a seeker, then how would you call yourself a Sikh?
Why is the bigamist Jathedar stiil in Patna Sahib as he was “ex-communicated”?
What kinds of Hukumnaamas are you trying to imply? For example no chairs for the handicap or old people for Langar or in the Diwan Hall?
Why is there no handicap entrance in the Harmander Sahib whereas we have to have them in the Gurdwaras outside? Don’t those people deserve to enter? Where is the Hukumnaanas for that? This shows how Hukumnaamas are futile and full of Me-ism rather than Gurmat values.
Can you please elaborate what is happening in the UK?
I agree that Sikhs in diaspora who finance most of the SGPC must be in part of any Panthic discussion.
And do you know that on SGPC site there in “Online Seva” with your credit card?
What SRM does the above belong to?
What do you mean by the above that there is no reason when SGGS is our only Guru?
Please define Khalsa if you do not mind.
Now it seems that you are making things up or some kathavachak must have taught you that.
Who says what is an arm and a leg when SGGS is our only Guru?
FYI, Politics and Sikhi go hand in hand because Sikhi is all about equality which we call democracy unlike Islam which is anarchy. Panj Pyaras are the sign of democracy.
A Sikh is a learner, a student, a seeker. Sikhi was 250 years old before Khandei de pahul and many were non keshdahris. No one knows if Bhai Nand Lal, Bhai Gurdas were or not and we know that the former did not take Khandei de pahul.
I am sure you are aware that there is no clergy in Sikhi for some reason. Let’s not undermine the thought process of our visionary Gurus. How do you plan to finance the Gurdwaras’ affairs without money and how about if those Panj Pyaras are Moneyman Singhs? Do you object to that?
FYI, Khalsa Credit Union was founded in Vancouver BC by 100 Amritdhari money men putting their money in it and it became a success with the Punjabi speaking tellers. As a result all Canadian banks have Punjabi speaking tellers now. I have no idea what you have against money. You would need money to have a computer to interact here to say the least.
I am a bit confused by your above assertion. It seems that you are giving me second hand information without studying the DG. Please correct me if I am wrong.
Thanks for the interesting and educating interaction.
Regards
Tejwant Singh
Guru Fateh,
Have you studied the DG? If you have, then you should be aware of its erotic contents that we cannot talk about in front of our mothers, sisters, daughters and other ladies. From your response above, it implies that you have. We should seriously discuss this later after your response because it is very important as you claim that you would not mind the Prakash of the Pornographic contents of DG along with SGGS, our only Guru.
Will wait for your response so we can discuss this further as it is a serious Panthic matter.
When you say Kirtan of DG can be performed in the Gurdwara, are you implying that all the pornographic stuff in the DG can be sung in front of the ladies that are related to you and me? Are you serious? Are you sure you have studied the DG?
Regarding Raagmala, I have my doubts because many claim that it has all the Raags in it which is not true and secondly, no one knows who wrote it and most of it does not make sense.
It depends how you define by Naam Japna. I am against parroting too. Jap ji teaches us not to parrot but: “Gaviei, Sunihei, Munn Rakhei Bhao” which is true Naam Simran and we are commanded to obey that. In other words, Singing can move one from the inside, Listening can make us grasp the message and Practicing the teachings of SGGS after listening sends us to the Gurmat Marg, not parroting some words for hours which is meaningless and an insult to Gurbani, our only anchor.
Anything is bare minimum if we do not make it our second nature by practicing it in our daily life. It matters naught how many nitnems. Japjis and other paaths one does.
Can you please show me from the SGGS where ex-communication is allowed? If you refuse to communicate with another ‘Sikh’ a learner, a teacher, a seeker, then how would you call yourself a Sikh?
Why is the bigamist Jathedar stiil in Patna Sahib as he was “ex-communicated”?
What kinds of Hukumnaamas are you trying to imply? For example no chairs for the handicap or old people for Langar or in the Diwan Hall?
Why is there no handicap entrance in the Harmander Sahib whereas we have to have them in the Gurdwaras outside? Don’t those people deserve to enter? Where is the Hukumnaanas for that? This shows how Hukumnaamas are futile and full of Me-ism rather than Gurmat values.
Can you please elaborate what is happening in the UK?
I agree that Sikhs in diaspora who finance most of the SGPC must be in part of any Panthic discussion.
And do you know that on SGPC site there in “Online Seva” with your credit card?
What SRM does the above belong to?
What do you mean by the above that there is no reason when SGGS is our only Guru?
Please define Khalsa if you do not mind.
Now it seems that you are making things up or some kathavachak must have taught you that.
Who says what is an arm and a leg when SGGS is our only Guru?
FYI, Politics and Sikhi go hand in hand because Sikhi is all about equality which we call democracy unlike Islam which is anarchy. Panj Pyaras are the sign of democracy.
A Sikh is a learner, a student, a seeker. Sikhi was 250 years old before Khandei de pahul and many were non keshdahris. No one knows if Bhai Nand Lal, Bhai Gurdas were or not and we know that the former did not take Khandei de pahul.
I am sure you are aware that there is no clergy in Sikhi for some reason. Let’s not undermine the thought process of our visionary Gurus. How do you plan to finance the Gurdwaras’ affairs without money and how about if those Panj Pyaras are Moneyman Singhs? Do you object to that?
FYI, Khalsa Credit Union was founded in Vancouver BC by 100 Amritdhari money men putting their money in it and it became a success with the Punjabi speaking tellers. As a result all Canadian banks have Punjabi speaking tellers now. I have no idea what you have against money. You would need money to have a computer to interact here to say the least.
I am a bit confused by your above assertion. It seems that you are giving me second hand information without studying the DG. Please correct me if I am wrong.
Thanks for the interesting and educating interaction.
Regards
Tejwant Singh
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