Professor Sarbjit Singh Dhunda

[Tejwant Singh]

Any raising doubts on any work or doing of Gurus is not acceptable. Dhunda & his Guru Kala Afghana are few of those.

Gurfateh !!

itsmanmeet ji,

Guru Fateh.

Please clarify what you mean by the following with examples:

"Any raising doubts on any work or doing of Gurus is not acceptable."

Do you take Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji as our only Guru or not?

 

[Harry Haller]

Gentlemen, are you aware that there is a renaissance taking place?,

All the questions asked as kids, all the inconsistencies, the contradictions, the double standards, the hypocrisy, are all being addressed and questioned. In my view, Dhunda and Kala Afghana are leading lights in this renaissance.

 

[Admin]

Sorry you could of asked me for the sources. This is the first time such thing happened, I apologize for missing out on the sources. But really I like how you try to go off-topic on the subject and not stay on topic but its alright I understand you have nothing else to say.

Abneet ji,

Needless to say, copy and pasting from other websites without any reference is plagiarism and not allowed as per Terms of Services at SPN. Repeat offenders are subject to ban without notice. Which is in our least of priorities.

The argument that nobody asked you to post links back to originating websites, which is quite untrue, is not an excuse expected from a matured person like you or for that matter anybody else participating on these forums. It is the responsibility of each and every SPN'er to read and understand and respect all the Terms of Service mentioned at the bottom of each page and which are supposed to be read even before registering at SPN. We respect, whatever, school of thought you or anybody adheres to, but to mock at others for their views is very child like and does not lead us anywhere. Let us get our basics of a matured and responsible participation right and then mutual respect will automatically follow.

Finally, it is OK to cut and paste (of-course with references) but what we, at SPN, are interested is: what do you personally think about a topic in hand, without a blind faith/following.

Please treat this as a first and final warning as far as Plagiarism is concerned.

Thank you so much for your understanding,

Gurafteh!

 

[Abneet]

Gentlemen, are you are there is a renaissance taking place?,

All the questions asked as kids, all the inconsistencies, the contradictions, the double standards, the hypocrisy, are all being addressed and questioned. In my view, Dhunda and Kala Afghana are leading lights in this renaissance.

Only a tiny of minority of Sikhs support them. They are no-namers now. Enough of their venom attacks on our Panth ,now we have other issues to worry about.

http://www.sikhiwiki.org/index.php/Kala_Afghana

As you can see his views he simply calls out against Amrit and goes right at it. If you haven't read his book or looked up his views, then you shouldn't be discussing without knowing what he really says. To me he is attacking the basic tenets of Sikhi. This guy might be a philosopher but is a nobody in the end.

 

[Gyani Jarnail Singh]

Only a tiny of minority of Sikhs support them. They are no-namers now. Enough of their venom attacks on our Panth ,now we have other issues to worry about.

http://www.sikhiwiki.org/index.php/Kala_Afghana

As you can see his views he simply calls out against Amrit and goes right at it. If you haven't read his book or looked up his views, then you shouldn't be discussing without knowing what he really says. To me he is attacking the basic tenets of Sikhi. This guy might be a philosopher but is a nobody in the end.

Guru Piyaraio Jios,

I have downloaded all the books back in the old days when i had ONLY the DOT MATRIX Printer..and I have read and re-read and un-read and re-read..those books a dozen times...I failed to find any "sikhi" tenet being attacked..yes the various Bippar/Brahminised/Vedic "Sikhi" + its RITUALS....that is Condemned in GURBANI..is being attacked and vehemently with Quotes form SGGS that run in the hundreds of Shabads...When the Dot Matrix copies became too old..I Downlaoded them all over again and now printed them on the Latest 1200DPI Laser Printers in Full Colour..still cant find anything objectionable....NEITHER could the Jathedars..thats why they Backed OFF and side tracked into personal attacks of mental..sick..raping..bicycle thief ( BTW..the next Important Parcharak after that Prof Ghaggha got the very same Attacks..truck thief, fake professor etc etc which are used against Dhunda and also Darshan Singh !!!...Solid Proof that the OPPOSING SIDE has NOTHING Based on Gurbani/SGGS and so they attack the person based on false stories).

Latest Question: ON what Page of SGGS is there a Gurbani titled REHRASS ? The Authentic Title in SGGS is SODAR. There is No Title REHRASS...which is an invention by vested interests who have also invented banis like Sankat Mochan, Dukh Bhanjannn, ETC ETC.
KalaAfghana and Ghaggha etc ask such questions and the opposition is unable to answer..so they cry..rape..theif..truck driver..fake professor..nastik..atheist....and anyone may visit many sites where these are called even worse..(pornographic language is Normal at those sites)

PLEASE read for YOURSELF..and then arrive at your own conclusions...I have met dozens who will ask me..have you read the DG..but when I respond..YES I have and what PAGE are you referring to...total silence...had I said NEGATIVE..the response would have been..AAHHH Waddah Gyani banniah firdah..DG vekhiyah vee nahin..!!!!..boldah....the FACT is that 99% of DG supporters dont even know how many pages dg has...but they will drop names like so and so SANT ji read it..so WHAT ?? Kabir Ji asks..OH Brahmin IF you are so special and learned..why didnt you come into this world a different way ?? YOU were BORN form the same orifice I was...AAN Baat kaheh ko nhin ayiah ?? ONLY the GURU is ingfallible...and the GURU is SGGS. PERIOD.

 

[Gyani Jarnail Singh]

BTW..sites like sikhwiki are a dime a dozen...the ONLY INFALLIBLE SOURCE is SGGS. PERIOD. Just about anyone with a few spare dollars can set up a wiki..etc..BUT ONLY the GURU can WRITE GURBANI....no Sant..no brahmgyani..no mahapurash..NO HUMAN could write a SINGLE tuk of GURBANI..not even the self proclaiemd GURUS like the Beas Guru, Sirsa Guru, Namdharee Guru etc etc etc..THAT is the LITMUS TEST....so Just like there are DERAS like the sand on the beaches..there are WIKI sites ....whatever...RELY on SELF..and ask GRACE GURPARSAAD of the One and true GURU...SGGS ONLY.

 

[Harry Haller]

Only a tiny of minority of Sikhs support them. They are no-namers now. Enough of their venom attacks on our Panth ,now we have other issues to worry about.

What you find to be venom attacks on our panth, I see as a well needed shake up and kick up the behind to dispel Vedic practices that have crept into Sikhism. You have mentioned parchar many times, what concerns me about parchar is that if we ignore the Dhundas of the world, what exactly are we parcharing?

http://www.sikhiwiki.org/index.php/Kala_Afghana

What he is actually saying is that there is no magical facet to Amrit, and that bathing in the water at Darbar Sahib will not make you a better person nor bring the dead back to life, he is dispelling all the hocus pocus that surrounds Sikhism and asking pragmatic intelligent questions, those that would deem him, and Dhunda as madmen, clearly have their own agenda, in fact, I can respect that a bit, a person with an agenda can have their actions explained, what confuses the hell out of me are the multitudes that follow blindly, with no agenda other than lapping up the misinformation that is being pumped out.

If you haven't read his book or looked up his views, then you shouldn't be discussing without knowing what he really says

I have, and I have, it is people like Dhunda and Kala Afghana that actually brought me back to Sikhism, it made me realise that a change is coming, that people are questioning, that all the misinformation I was fed as a child is just that, misinformation.
Your statement also equally applies to your own self.....

To me he is attacking the basic tenets of Sikhi. This guy might be a philosopher but is a nobody in the end.

ok name one, any one of the basic ones he is attacking?

 

[itsmaneet]

itsmanmeet ji,

Guru Fateh.

Please clarify what you mean by the following with examples:

"Any raising doubts on any work or doing of Gurus is not acceptable."

Do you take Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji as our only Guru or not?

Without a doubt I do consider Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji our ONE & ONLY GURU. The same time also respect the work, belongings of all our Gurus be it Dasam Granth, Chola of Guru Nanak Sahib, Shastars of our Gurus etc. But this guy Dhunda seems to disrespect Guru's belongings specifically the Dasam Granth.

 

[Gyani Jarnail Singh]

1. Its always one argument..."Dassan Guru sahibaan dee Bani"..which is meant that this authenticates the DG..whereas all it means is that the GURU - Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji..is the COMBINED "dass Guru sahibaans"...OR put it another way Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji=GURU NANAK (Mahalla Pehlla to Mahalla Dasvaan. This also is why the Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji is VITAL to the preparation of the Khandey batteh Dee Pahul Ceremony ( The PANJ CANNOT start the Pahul ceremony in theABSENCE of the Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji - in 1699 this Ceremony was GURU GOBIND SINGH JI + the Panj..from 1708 its Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji+the Panj. Period.)

2. Its a Histoprical FACT that Guru HarGobind Sahib Ji, Guru HarRai sahib Ji, and Guru HarKishan Sahib Ji DID NOT WRITE any bani. SO IF the words "Dassan Guruan dee bani proves that Guru GOBIND SINGH JI has too have written Bani..then this arguemnt FAILS..becasue then with Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji=DG its ONLY SIX GURUS BANI !!! In other words the word DASSAN GURUAN is in no way a proof that Guru gobind Singh ji wrote bani. In this LIGHT the Argument in Para ONE stands FIRM. Dassan Guruan dee Bani is Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji.and ONLy the Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji is GURU.PERIOD.

3. Its also an accepted Historical FACT as to WHY the Sixth GURU didnot write any bani..) Immediately After Guru Angad Sahib Ji it ahd become apparent that the House of nanak had this unique gift called GURBANI...Bhai KLehnna Ji, Bhai Amardass Ji..were in FACT attracted to the House of Nanak by the GURBANI of Guru nanak ji Sahib..esp JAPJI SAHIB..which had become very very commonly read due to Guru nanak jis travels....Rakshahs and Thugghs like Kauda, Sajjan etc were TRANSFORMED by the GURBANI....

4. Thus the enemies of the House of nanak - Beginning witht he two UNWORTHY sosn of Guru Nanak Ji, Guru Angad Ji, and Guru Amardass Ji....had begun the practise of spreading KACHEE BANI..so much so that Guru Amardass Ji has warned SIKHS about this in ANAND SAHIB...a Bnai that EQUALS the Masterpieces of Japji Asa dee vaar and other Banis earlier...and written at an ADVANCED AGE when ordinary persons actually become SENILE !!! NOTE: THIS is the period when the HISTORY of SIKHISM was also DISTORTED..Spuriosu books like the Bhai balal janam sakhi , the Gurbials Patshai Chhevin and Bachitar natak as well as many fake Hukmnamahs etc were written to confuse Sikhs. Bhai bala was INVENTED and his "so called personal companiion seen history of Guru nanak ji is FAKE and seeks to PROMOTE the HINDALIS as BETTER GURUS than those follwoing Guru nanak Ji...These Hindalis continued to Baba WADDBHAG SINGH whose DERA today drives out BHOOTS and evil spirits in direct conflict with GURBANI TEACHINGS and Gurmatt...the Balal Tall tale book was written by Waddbhags ancestors...further these same people also tried to ASSASINATE GURU TEG BAHADUR Ji by firinga rifle at him )

5. After the Martyrdom of Guru Arjun Ji (one of the MAJOR reasons for the MARTYRDOM being the compilation and saambh-sambhaal preservation of the GURBANI of the FIVE GURUS and Bhagats in one volume AAD GRANTH which the Enemies hated )....the Rebellious section of the House of Nanak ...people like the Hundalis, the Mehrbans etc began to WRITE SPURIOUS BANI under the Nanak Chhaap and Mahalla CHHEVAAN Satvaan etc...which was an attempt to CONFUSE the Sikhs !!! To NEGATE this..the AUTHENTIC Maahalla chhevan satvaan and athvaan did not write any bani at all...Mahalla nauvahn Guru teg bahadur Ji wrote the last banis that were to be added to the AAD GRANTH by Guru Gobind Singh Ji at the appropriate palces, raags etc throughout the Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji before the Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji was given GURGADEE in 1708.

Had Guru Gobind Singh ji wanted nay of His "banis" added to Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji..there was no reason for Him to not add them..as He had OPENED the MUNDAWNNEE Mah 5 put in place by Guru Arjun Ji..and ADDED the banis of Guru teg bahadur ji at many many places (ALL Raags have banis written by Guru teg bahadur Ji - in FACT Guru Teg bahadur Ji has one RAAG EXTRA to those used in Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji..Raag jaijawantee !!..and AFTER this ADDITION..Guru Gobind Singh Ji PLACED the MUNDAWNNEE MAH 5 LOCK back in its proper place and SEALED the Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji. This is also another solid proof that Raagmala which comes OUTSIDE the SEAL or LOCK is NOT Gurbani. The Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji closes officially with the Slok Mh 5 as Shukraana by Guru Arjun ji and to complement the internal structure of Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji because it OPENS with a SLOK also.(AAD SACH JUGAAD SACH...Nannak hosee hai bhee sach. PERFECT COMPLEMENT.).

Regards

 

[Harry Haller]

Without a doubt I do consider Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji our ONE & ONLY GURU. The same time also respect the work, belongings of all our Gurus be it Dasam Granth, Chola of Guru Nanak Sahib, Shastars of our Gurus etc. But this guy Dhunda seems to disrespect Guru's belongings specifically the Dasam Granth.

The problem is how do you know? Do you know how to check whether your windows installation is legal? There should be a little sticker somewhere that says 'certificate of authenticity', this sticker means that the windows you have on your computer is legal and valid. We can put some faith in this that everything is good with our software,

So, Dasam Granth, Cholas, belongings, where is the sticker?

With the Dasam Granth, it is a bit more complicated, not only does it lack a certificate of authenticity, but its content is extremely questionable, it is like a pc that has windows loaded using a cracked copy, no certificate, and full of viruses and spyware so nothing makes any actual sense. The passages about sex are not written to warn or educate, they seem more titillation to me, written in the style of Vedic writings.

However... just as we show respect for Muslims, Christians and Hindus, not only for their beliefs, but also how they choose to worship, then we should also respect those that believe that the entire DG was written by the tenth Master, the problem then is the reconciliation of respect for another, balanced against respect for our Gurus, and for the maligning of our history

 

[Abneet]

Guru Piyaraio Jios,

I have downloaded all the books back in the old days when i had ONLY the DOT MATRIX Printer..and I have read and re-read and un-read and re-read..those books a dozen times...I failed to find any "sikhi" tenet being attacked..yes the various Bippar/Brahminised/Vedic "Sikhi" + its RITUALS....that is Condemned in GURBANI..is being attacked and vehemently with Quotes form Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji that run in the hundreds of Shabads...When the Dot Matrix copies became too old..I Downlaoded them all over again and now printed them on the Latest 1200DPI Laser Printers in Full Colour..still cant find anything objectionable....NEITHER could the Jathedars..thats why they Backed OFF and side tracked into personal attacks of mental..sick..raping..bicycle thief ( BTW..the next Important Parcharak after that Prof Ghaggha got the very same Attacks..truck thief, fake professor etc etc which are used against Dhunda and also Darshan Singh !!!...Solid Proof that the OPPOSING SIDE has NOTHING Based on Gurbani/Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji and so they attack the person based on false stories).

Latest Question: ON what Page of Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji is there a Gurbani titled REHRASS ? The Authentic Title in Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji is SODAR. There is No Title REHRASS...which is an invention by vested interests who have also invented banis like Sankat Mochan, Dukh Bhanjannn, ETC ETC.
KalaAfghana and Ghaggha etc ask such questions and the opposition is unable to answer..so they cry..rape..theif..truck driver..fake professor..nastik..atheist....and anyone may visit many sites where these are called even worse..(pornographic language is Normal at those sites)

PLEASE read for YOURSELF..and then arrive at your own conclusions...I have met dozens who will ask me..have you read the DG..but when I respond..YES I have and what PAGE are you referring to...total silence...had I said NEGATIVE..the response would have been..AAHHH Waddah Gyani banniah firdah..DG vekhiyah vee nahin..!!!!..boldah....the FACT is that 99% of DG supporters dont even know how many pages dg has...but they will drop names like so and so SANT ji read it..so WHAT ?? Kabir Ji asks..OH Brahmin IF you are so special and learned..why didnt you come into this world a different way ?? YOU were BORN form the same orifice I was...AAN Baat kaheh ko nhin ayiah ?? ONLY the GURU is ingfallible...and the GURU is Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji. PERIOD.

I wonder Jarnail ji, did your dad learn anything about the DG from Sant Kartar's predecessors? I thought Kartar singh believed DG to be dasvee patshaah's bani or did he not? (his name was on that list) It is true GGS is our only guru. Back on the topic of DG, So many known Gursikhs supported it from Bhai Vir singh to Baba Nand Singh. We are talking about influential Gursikhs from our history that are well known by almost every Sikh. We have to think what did they miss in DG? Were they interpreting it wrong or reading it without knowing where the writing came from?

 

[Abneet]

What you find to be venom attacks on our panth, I see as a well needed shake up and kick up the behind to dispel Vedic practices that have crept into Sikhism. You have mentioned parchar many times, what concerns me about parchar is that if we ignore the Dhundas of the world, what exactly are we parcharing?



What he is actually saying is that there is no magical facet to Amrit, and that bathing in the water at Darbar Sahib will not make you a better person nor bring the dead back to life, he is dispelling all the hocus pocus that surrounds Sikhism and asking pragmatic intelligent questions, those that would deem him, and Dhunda as madmen, clearly have their own agenda, in fact, I can respect that a bit, a person with an agenda can have their actions explained, what confuses the hell out of me are the multitudes that follow blindly, with no agenda other than lapping up the misinformation that is being pumped out.



I have, and I have, it is people like Dhunda and Kala Afghana that actually brought me back to Sikhism, it made me realise that a change is coming, that people are questioning, that all the misinformation I was fed as a child is just that, misinformation.
Your statement also equally applies to your own self.....



ok name one, any one of the basic ones he is attacking?

I'm glad Dhunda supporters are like 1% of the Sikh population now in the West your voices will never be heard.....lol

He straight up attacks amrit and says it is meaningless being a amritdhari. He doesn't believe Guru Gobind Singh ji beheaded the punj pyare. You got people saying its impossible or lambs were used? Whats next? amrit sanchar never took place LOL. - this refers to Afghana.

Dhunda on the other hand I don't care about anymore he is banned from the West. He can go mixing up Sikhs in India I don't mind its bad already enough there.

 

[Harry Haller]

He doesn't believe Guru Gobind Singh ji beheaded the punj pyare.

do you?

You must then believe that Guru Gobind Singh was some sort of God then, rather then a servant of God, and if the tenth master was a god, capable of reassembling dead bodies, why did he then lead a very mortal life? Why did not celestial beings assist us in our battles? Why did he not walk the battlefields and bring all the dead Sikh warriors back to life?

So in your world, let me get this right so I understand, Taking Amrit on its own is not meaningless, without any internal discipline or desire, the very action of taking Amrit will transform you into a Sikh, and our Gurus were supernatural magicians that brought the dead back to life,

Let me also understand something else, you are Amritdhari, so it is your duty to parchar this right?

I'm glad Dhunda supporters are like 1% of the Sikh population now in the West your voices will never be heard.....

why would you be glad? surely the truth is the truth whatever it is, do you feel you have the truth? I certainly do not, every day there is new discover, a new truth,

 

[Abneet]

do you?

You must then believe that Guru Gobind Singh was some sort of God then, rather then a servant of God, and if the tenth master was a god, capable of reassembling dead bodies, why did he then lead a very mortal life? Why did not celestial beings assist us in our battles? Why did he not walk the battlefields and bring all the dead Sikh warriors back to life?

So in your world, let me get this right so I understand, Taking Amrit on its own is not meaningless, without any internal discipline or desire, the very action of taking Amrit will transform you into a Sikh, and our Gurus were supernatural magicians that brought the dead back to life,

Let me also understand something else, you are Amritdhari, so it is your duty to parchar this right?

If Ram Rai can resurrect the dead why can't the Gurus?lol

IDK why did guru arjun dev ji have to get burned on a hot plate? He didn't have too but it was according to His will. He accepted it therefore he didn't do anything.

 

[arshdeep88]

Abhneet Ji
pardon my ignorance and my lack of knowledge regarding the subject but could beheading of Punj pyaras have been in actual reality meant the people who were infact ready to give up their Own MATT and follow GURUS matt blindfoldedly?

 

[Abneet]

Abhneet Ji
pardon my ignorance and my lack of knowledge regarding the subject but could beheading of Punj pyaras have been in actual reality meant the people who were infact ready to give up their Own MATT and follow GURUS matt blindfoldedly?

Remember now, Guru Gobind Singh Ji said who wants to give their head.....not who wants this or that. He said it clearly and loudly. The five original punj pyare were specifically unique. He was told by Akal Purakh to establish Khalsa. Now we can doubt our Gurus all we want but they did miracles when it was the time needed. They never abused it or they didn't believe in using miracles for their own good.

 

[Harry Haller]

If Ram Rai can resurrect the dead why can't the Gurus?

And your basis for this statement is ? another Sakhi?

IDK why did guru arjun dev ji have to get burned on a hot plate? He didn't have too but it was according to His will. He accepted it therefore he didn't do anything.

Therefore why would the tenth master interfere with this will, even if he could?

 

[Harry Haller]

Now we can doubt our Gurus all we want but they did miracles when it was the time needed. They never abused it or they didn't believe in using miracles for their own good.

can you state a documented miracle that has occurred in Sikhism?

 

[Abneet]

And your basis for this statement is ? another Sakhi?



Therefore why would the tenth master interfere with this will, even if he could?

He could but it would be devastating. We all can't understand God's work we can understand bit parts but the main thing is that Guru Gobind Singh ji couldn't interfere with God's play. We can question everything within God's Will but we won't get full answers. The gurus did their part within His will. I know I sometimes don't understand God's will and I probably never will but we just have to accept it in the end. That's how I see it. Your view might be way different.

 

[Harry Haller]

He could but it would be devastating. We all can't understand God's work we can understand bit parts but the main thing is that Guru Gobind Singh ji couldn't interfere with God's play. We can question everything within God's Will but we won't get full answers. The gurus did their part within His will. I know I sometimes don't understand God's will and I probably never will but we just have to accept it in the end. That's how I see it. Your view might be way different.

your arguments seem to be contradicting, on the one hand Guruji couldn't interfere with God's will, on the other hand, he decapitated people and then brought them back to life, which is it?