Sikh Girls: A Confused Lot. Are Parents To Blame?

[gurus_princess]

^ I see your point soniadatta_cc, however, there is one major flaw in your post. There IS a set of laws set out that separates right from wrong in Sikhism: the Reht Maryada. All answers can be found in this small, easy-to-read book. If the child is willing to do so, they can easily read the book themselves as it is certainely not a hard read. Parents can assist their children in understanding the Reht Maryada by working together as a team. As you all know, A Sikh is someone who is constantly striving to learn, so why pretend to point the finger of blame at each other when one can easily access and read the countless sources of information out there on Sikhi (and it's rules and regulations) themselves?

The people at fault are a little of both the parents and the children. Humans are a naturally lazy species but if one truly wants to move ahead and improve themselves or gain a better understanding of the world, God or religion, they have to make the first step themselves. The Gurus have given all the answers to our questions in the sacred bani in the Guru Granth. The Reht Maryada was written by over a hundred intelligent minds over approximately 3 decades. Everything is sitting right infront of us, we just have to get up and read it.

Bhul chuk muaf.

 

[j_uk]

Recently i have come to realise that many sikh girls like myself face too many personal battles.

I believe i have been bought up in quite a tradtional family. Tradtional being the operative word. I am talking generally now, but so many of the third generation have no clue about Sikhism.

I have many muslim and hindu friends, and they have been taught about their religion by their parents. In any predicament or situation, my muslim friends know what is right and wrong. This is not simply what their parent have told them is right and wrong but because they know from a religious standpoint.

Take for example the case of alcohol. Muslims know that they should not drink, it is wrong in their religion. Wheras myself and many of my Sikh friends and family are simply told girls don't drink. But our brothers and fathers go out drinking and come back drunk. What does this show us.

In Sikh families tradtion meanS that girls have so many more pressures than boys. Take again for example drinking alcohol, boys will go out with their friends and have a good time.If girls do the same thing they are more likely to be ridden with guilt. The words of their parents will echoin their heads. But shouldn't it be the words of Sikhism, that drinking is wrong. Many of hindu friends are know that they shouldn't drink, this is because their parents have taught them it is wrong and have led by example. Some of my hindu frinds do drink, but in each case their parents are aware, and they are encouraged to move away from the habit. Muslim girls are aware that their religion teaches not to drink and they don't.

Think about sikh weddings, it is a religious ceremony. But straight after everybody heads off to the party where there is alcohol galore. So what does that teach us? I simply do not get it. Isn't alcohol against sikhism..why have it on a wedding... a religious union? I understand why Christains have alchocol at weddings.. because it isn't againt Christianity. Mulisms don't need alcohol to celebrate.... so many Sikh men just drink, and show themselves up.

How many Sikh children know what the five K's mean?? I bet less than half the UK population of Sikh Children are aware. How many children know what Vaishaki means? To many it means a fun trip to the mela, and a fun walk with free food. Yes but ask muslim childen about ramadan or why they are fasting and they will tell you.

Many of the Sikhs of my generation are louts. They like the glory of their religion. You will see so many young people supporting khanda but not because they are proud of their relgion but because they look cool!!!

The gurdwara is another thing that grates me. How many young people actually listen. There are mobiles going off, children running around, old ladies bantering and gossiping. Pleas for money. Its like a playground. You don't get that in a mosque or church. People know what they are there for.

I mean why do we have to place money and then bow down when we go to the gurdwara? I don't undertstand. It is a silly concept with no meaning (money not bowing). When we go to the gurdwara to pray, that is what should matter. There is no place for a money box in the gurdwara... i resent bowing infront of it. What is the significace??People should make a contribution elsewhere.

Also in Sikhism thier should be no idols. But why are there so many picturs, and statues? How do we know what Guru Nanak Dev Ji looked like or any of the other gurus. Why do we have picturs of them in the gurdwara? Isn't it against the teachings????

On many occassions Sikh parents let thier sons cut their hair.... but their daughters are expected to keep it long. At a young age, i thought that the only rason girls didn't cut thier hair was becasue it would make them look like ummm 'bad girls!' We wern't actually told that Sikhs aren't supposed to tamper with thier bodies. Even if we were told this i guess we still would have been confused because we would question why does my father or brother have short hair?!!!

Sikhs in this country are confused. I forsee many of my generation moving away from a this religion because we just don't get it!!

Wahe Guru Ji Ka Khalsa
Your thougts are right its the parents that tell about sikhi to the children but if they are not praticeing its according to maryada than children wouldnt know about it
In this country the problem start from the sikh house
Consuming alcohol is not according to sikhi or ryath but people try to mould the life style that suit them and not living accornding to the path shown bu Guru ji they are not true sikh RYATH PYARI MUJKO SIKH PYARA NAI
Is said by SRI GURU GOBIND SINGH JI
But its our miss fortune we forgot that and creating our own path and destroying the sikhi
How many families you know talk in Punjabi at home as bani is written in gurmukhi it would be easy for any one who could understand punjabi.
You could translate from one language to another but in doing that most of the time the sense or the intention the original script had is lost for example
In gurmukhi we had word SAAD SANGTH what would be the english translation of this word without loosing the sense of the intensity used by GURUJI.
In a Gurudwara in english one of sikh speaker from UK had used word MATE instead of SANGTH accoring to bani GURU ROOP SAAD SANGTH is using word mate is right its not as the in bani importance of SANGTH is importnat
My view is if you want to understand the sikhi please dont forget our language
But just sikh should live according to the path that guruji has shown us

 

[lionprinceuk]

^ I see your point soniadatta_cc, however, there is one major flaw in your post. There IS a set of laws set out that separates right from wrong in Sikhism: the Reht Maryada. All answers can be found in this small, easy-to-read book. If the child is willing to do so, they can easily read the book themselves as it is certainely not a hard read. Parents can assist their children in understanding the Reht Maryada by working together as a team. As you all know, A Sikh is someone who is constantly striving to learn, so why pretend to point the finger of blame at each other when one can easily access and read the countless sources of information out there on Sikhi (and it's rules and regulations) themselves?

why would one want to read SGPC created rehit maryada, neither does it represent sikhs, nor the akali nihang khalsa fauj.

I would advise as a sikh to avoid such politically minded books.

 

[lionprinceuk]

ro statement of Neutral Singh:

i think marriage is more to do with person being traditional than religious.

Religious but untraditional person can be seen in partnership even without marriage, but traditional person will not like this, regardless of religiousness.

Also, remember anand karaj only became standard marriage set by SGPC for sehajdhari sikhs as well. It was mostly khalsa singhs partnership union before this. But since now nearly every sikh does anand karaj, it has become the traditional marriage union. Therefore it will be done as marital ceremony as part of tradition.

I think we need to be thankful that there are people following the tradition of a marital ceremony, because we are seeing increase of unions without marriage such as girlfriend-boyfriend.

I am seeing more and more amrit-dharis practise this, but I have noticed they are from backgroudns that have lost their culture and traditions which helped stay in dharm. With just religion, they will not gain these things, and will become more adharmik.

Also much sikhi being taught has political than spiritual benfits. There is lack of dharm being practised and preached, and just things being forced in tirualistic manners. It is respectful to have hair and 5 ks, but first teaching of being a decent human and dharm is needed.

 

[spnadmin]

Recently i have come to realise that many sikh girls like myself face too many personal battles.

I believe i have been bought up in quite a tradtional family. Tradtional being the operative word. I am talking generally now, but so many of the third generation have no clue about Sikhism.

I have many muslim and hindu friends, and they have been taught about their religion by their parents. In any predicament or situation, my muslim friends know what is right and wrong. This is not simply what their parent have told them is right and wrong but because they know from a religious standpoint.

Take for example the case of alcohol. Muslims know that they should not drink, it is wrong in their religion. Wheras myself and many of my Sikh friends and family are simply told girls don't drink. But our brothers and fathers go out drinking and come back drunk. What does this show us.

In Sikh families tradtion meanS that girls have so many more pressures than boys. Take again for example drinking alcohol, boys will go out with their friends and have a good time.If girls do the same thing they are more likely to be ridden with guilt. The words of their parents will echoin their heads. But shouldn't it be the words of Sikhism, that drinking is wrong. Many of hindu friends are know that they shouldn't drink, this is because their parents have taught them it is wrong and have led by example. Some of my hindu frinds do drink, but in each case their parents are aware, and they are encouraged to move away from the habit. Muslim girls are aware that their religion teaches not to drink and they don't.

Think about sikh weddings, it is a religious ceremony. But straight after everybody heads off to the party where there is alcohol galore. So what does that teach us? I simply do not get it. Isn't alcohol against sikhism..why have it on a wedding... a religious union? I understand why Christains have alchocol at weddings.. because it isn't againt Christianity. Mulisms don't need alcohol to celebrate.... so many Sikh men just drink, and show themselves up.

How many Sikh children know what the five K's mean?? I bet less than half the UK population of Sikh Children are aware. How many children know what Vaishaki means? To many it means a fun trip to the mela, and a fun walk with free food. Yes but ask muslim childen about ramadan or why they are fasting and they will tell you.

Many of the Sikhs of my generation are louts. They like the glory of their religion. You will see so many young people supporting khanda but not because they are proud of their relgion but because they look cool!!!

The gurdwara is another thing that grates me. How many young people actually listen. There are mobiles going off, children running around, old ladies bantering and gossiping. Pleas for money. Its like a playground. You don't get that in a mosque or church. People know what they are there for.

I mean why do we have to place money and then bow down when we go to the gurdwara? I don't undertstand. It is a silly concept with no meaning (money not bowing). When we go to the gurdwara to pray, that is what should matter. There is no place for a money box in the gurdwara... i resent bowing infront of it. What is the significace??People should make a contribution elsewhere.

Also in Sikhism thier should be no idols. But why are there so many picturs, and statues? How do we know what Guru Nanak Dev Ji looked like or any of the other gurus. Why do we have picturs of them in the gurdwara? Isn't it against the teachings????

On many occassions Sikh parents let thier sons cut their hair.... but their daughters are expected to keep it long. At a young age, i thought that the only rason girls didn't cut thier hair was becasue it would make them look like ummm 'bad girls!' We wern't actually told that Sikhs aren't supposed to tamper with thier bodies. Even if we were told this i guess we still would have been confused because we would question why does my father or brother have short hair?!!!

Sikhs in this country are confused. I forsee many of my generation moving away from a this religion because we just don't get it!!

All respected ji's

Above you can read the very first post in this thread, which was started by Neutral Singh. Neutral Singh has reported, that from experience, there is more pressure on girls than on boys to conform to traditional practices -- about alcohol, cutting hair, and pressure to conform because if a kaur does not conform she will be viewed as a bad girl. Neutral Singh talks about lack of spiritual benefits in gurdwara, lack of teaching in the home. Do not all these things also affect young men today? Are girls more susceptible to failure and to falling down?

What I want to know is why there is not one thread here that asks Sikh Boys: A Confused Lot. Are Parents to Blame? Why is the spot-light shining so much more on girls? In this an other threads? In this and other forums?

 

[Admin]

All respected ji's

Above you can read the very first post in this thread, which was started by Neutral Singh. Neutral Singh has reported, that from experience, there is more pressure on girls than on boys to conform to traditional practices -- about alcohol, cutting hair, and pressure to conform because if a kaur does not conform she will be viewed as a bad girl. Neutral Singh talks about lack of spiritual benefits in gurdwara, lack of teaching in the home. Do not all these things also affect young men today? Are girls more susceptible to failure and to falling down.

What I want to know is why there is not one thread here that asks Sikh Boys: A Confused Lot. Are Parents to Blame? Why is the spot-light shining so much more on girls? In this an other threads? In this and other forums?

Antonia Ji, besides yourself: Where Have All The Sikh Girls/Women Gone from SPN? We would love the see the women power around SPN. :happy:

Regards

 

[spnadmin]

Aman ji

They are here. Some are posting and others are reading. Problem is not as many are posting as you/I would like to see. I think soniadatta_cc is a kaur and guru_princess too. Both have posted today. But we need more kaurs online -- definitely. And we need women of all ages -- from teenagers to grandmothers -- so we get a complete picture, a complete range of experiences and points of view. I agree with you. :yes: Let's not forget the fathers and brothers who stand behind their wives, sisters and daughters 100 percent. They should speak up on these matters as well.

 

[kds1980]

All respected ji's

Above you can read the very first post in this thread, which was started by Neutral Singh. Neutral Singh has reported, that from experience, there is more pressure on girls than on boys to conform to traditional practices -- about alcohol, cutting hair, and pressure to conform because if a kaur does not conform she will be viewed as a bad girl. Neutral Singh talks about lack of spiritual benefits in gurdwara, lack of teaching in the home. Do not all these things also affect young men today? Are girls more susceptible to failure and to falling down?

What I want to know is why there is not one thread here that asks Sikh Boys: A Confused Lot. Are Parents to Blame? Why is the spot-light shining so much more on girls? In this an other threads? In this and other forums?

Antonia ji

The problems mentioned in above thread are not problems of all sikh girls.These problems are faced by main girls living outside India.For example The girl mentioned that boys are allowed to cut their hair.But In urban India there is exactly the opposite thing that happens
It is always the boys that are forced to keep their hair girls are expected to keep their hair on head uncut they freely do waxing and making eyebrows.Parents equally teach religion
to their sons and daughters but still many many sikh girls marry non sikh men and then
start practicing hinduism and raise hindu families so just like this girl has grievances against sikh society many many sikh boys can complain in same manner

 

[jasi]

Sat Sri Aka ji.
Means truth is the name of Almighty.

The reply to you quest is if you follow any organized region or faith the according to thier laid down ethic or so called principals regardless if your love is sincer or fals.
But if you follow our Guru Shri Guru Nanak Dev ji there is no boundry to what you can do if you are sincerly listening your heart and believe fundamental teachings of sikhism that there is no cast or classes among the humans . Every thing what your deds are making your class not by birth.
Good luck as there are thousands like you whose wings to fly are folded with millions of layers of created rules by organized relegiion.

Jaspi
jas@rajbird.com

I read a couple of posts and i observe great views of all people. However, do we realise that we donot have 1 standard answer. Thats the problem. The person who started the post was not really commenting on anyone but trying to point the same matter.

We donot have 1 standard answer. The reason is simple, we donot have a set of laws that differentiate between right and wrong. Hence, our parents DO THEIR WILL in deciding the right and WRONG based on society, friends, trandition and finally RELIGION. When you see christianity, the laws are clear and defined. The parents read them and teach them to their kids. If they dont follow it, They know they are doing wrong. Same case for Muslims.

So, WE WOULD NEED TO TACKLE THIS ISSUE BY UNDERSTANDING what is right and what is wrong as per SIKHISM. I tried it by reading our Scriptures but i realise it requires much more work than we thot it could be.

A very deep and detailed understanding of GURU GRANTH, and clear cut preachings in gurudwaras (like they have in Churches) and strong determination from parents and youth to follow the FAITH in entirety is required.

 

[spnadmin]

Antonia ji

The problems mentioned in above thread are not problems of all sikh girls.These problems are faced by main girls living outside India.For example The girl mentioned that boys are allowed to cut their hair.But In urban India there is exactly the opposite thing that happens
It is always the boys that are forced to keep their hair girls are expected to keep their hair on head uncut they freely do waxing and making eyebrows.Parents equally teach religion
to their sons and daughters but still many many sikh girls marry non sikh men and then
start practicing hinduism and raise hindu families so just like this girl has grievances against sikh society many many sikh boys can complain in same manner

kds ji

I appreciate your response -- and knew that you would respond to my post :yes: and agree with much you have said here -- just from impressions. The controversies about Sikh girls being confused do seem to settle around communities in the diaspora, or maybe it is just discussed more in the diaspora. You know I am an avid reader of Indian newspapers and also interact with many people from India in areas related to my interests (cooking mostly, but also cultural topics). The conversations about confused girls never comes up. So I am coming to the conclusion that this is about preserving a cultural identity among so many people who are very frightened that "culture" will be lost because of being immigrants. This is and has been a fear of all immigrant groups for 200 years or more in the US.

So, let's agree that the discourse about confused girls does not occur in India as much. The question I have still stands. Why do we not see threads that ask, Sikh Boys: A Confused Lot. Are Parents to Blame? Are we saying in the diaspora and in India that Sikh boys and men are never confused and are always operating in the clear light of the day? And, are we saying that Sikh girls need a lot more attention because they can't figure things out on their own?

My confession: This thread and the title of this thread has bothered me from my first days as an SPN member. And it is not hard to see why. A lot of the comments from the beginning make the kaurs sound like dopes. Forgive me.

 

[jasi]

Sat Sri Akal Ji.
Reply to your comments about (Marayda). All rules and principals are created by organized relegion and can not be higher than all SHABADS and the facts preached and done by Guru Nanak Dev ji.
There is only one God and lower or highr cast is judged according to one's deeds.
here only one cast for human being is human being.

.
Jaspi

 

[kds1980]

kds ji

I appreciate your response -- and knew that you would respond to my post :yes: and agree with much you have said here -- just from impressions. The controversies about Sikh girls being confused do seem to settle around communities in the diaspora, or maybe it is just discussed more in the diaspora. You know I am an avid reader of Indian newspapers and also interact with many people from India in areas related to my interests (cooking mostly, but also cultural topics). The conversations about confused girls never comes up. So I am coming to the conclusion that this is about preserving a cultural identity among so many people who are very frightened that "culture" will be lost because of being immigrants. This is and has been a fear of all immigrant groups for 200 years or more in the US.

So, let's agree that the discourse about confused girls does not occur in India as much. The question I have still stands. Why do we not see threads that ask, Sikh Boys: A Confused Lot. Are Parents to Blame? Are we saying in the diaspora and in India that Sikh boys and men are never confused and are always operating in the clear light of the day? And, are we saying that Sikh girls need a lot more attention because they can't figure things out on their own?

My confession: This thread and the title of this thread has bothered me from my first days as an SPN member. And it is not hard to see why. A lot of the comments from the beginning make the kaurs sound like dopes. Forgive me.

Antonia ji

I agree with you that sikh boys are confused too.But I think on spn many of their issues are covered on various threads.As far as this thread is concerned Fortunately or unfortunately this thread received one of the highest number of replies from sikh girls in which they expressed their views and lot of discussion happened in this thread so its obvious that there are many comments which you or some other sikh woman don't like

 

[spnadmin]

Antonia ji

I agree with you that sikh boys are confused too.But I think on spn many of their issues are covered on various threads.As far as this thread is concerned Fortunately or unfortunately this thread received one of the highest number of replies from sikh girls in which they expressed their views and lot of discussion happened in this thread so its obvious that there are many comments which you or some other sikh woman don't like

kdsji

Nope -- the thread has received a large number of replies (both from males and from females), and that is the reason for my question. Threads about the confusion and social development of Sikh girls seem to sustain disproportionate focus. Why?

 

[kds1980]

kdsji

Nope -- the thread has received a large number of replies (both from males and from females), and that is the reason for my question. Threads about the confusion and social development of Sikh girls seem to sustain disproportionate focus. Why?

Antonia ji

I am on spn from nearly 4 years and this is the only thread which perhaps received highest participation from kaurs so its obvious that some heated discussions took place on this thread.Btw I should not say much about heated discussions as I too participated on this thread:.As Aman singh ji pointed out lack of participation of kaurs on spn so its obvious that if in this thread they participated then some discussions are going to take place

On the other hand there are many many threads in which problems of sikh youths are discussed which automatically become's problems of sikh boys as the participation of
sikh men is quite high.So I think that focus is on boys as well as on girls but issue's of boys
are spreaded in large number of threads while problem of girls are discussed in few threads

 

[spnadmin]

kds ji

I will keep quiet about this from now on.

 

[soniadatta_cc]

Thanks so much. I will read it today itself and reply on this post. This was helpful!

 

[soniadatta_cc]

i read through the Rehat Maryada and it looks like we have a fairly detailed set of rules.

However, implementation of these has not happened and we find ourselves following lots of things and getting confused. I was surprised to see:-

That we shouldnt believe in cast and most Sikhs append their 'Surname' after Singh/Kaur and live as per that till today.

Also, Many Sikh women still observe Shradh and fasting. Infact, you will find maximum women on Karva chauth fast in the Golden Temple!

Not to mention visiting Seers and clairvoyants for help and guidance.

Alcohol is used most freely by us in weddings and also maximum alcohol businesses are owned by Sikhs. Its a Open violation to the tenets. Noone including Gurudwaras try to stop it.

The lady who started this post had the same point to make when she said that parents donot allow daughters to drink but boys drink regular. The Laws were made by Gurus not just for women but for all.

 

[kds1980]

Also, Many Sikh women still observe Shradh and fasting. Infact, you will find maximum women on Karva chauth fast in the Golden Temple!

Sonia ji sikhs are minority and they are heavily influnced by majority .Sikh women watch
Serials in which keeping karva chauth is a big affair,also the corporate sector is heavily encashing these festivals to sell their products, Even in high fi cities many women( Hindu /sikh) keep karva chauth because it is a trend so the infulence of these on sikh women is natural

Not to mention visiting Seers and clairvoyants for help and guidance.

It is human nature ,we want instant cure of our problems in the end sikhs are also human beings

Alcohol is used most freely by us in weddings and also maximum alcohol businesses are owned by Sikhs. Its a Open violation to the tenets. Noone including Gurudwaras try to stop it.

I agree That sikhs should not consume alchol

The lady who started this post had the same point to make when she said that parents donot allow daughters to drink but boys drink regular. The Laws were made by Gurus not just for women but for all.

If a daughter in sikh family is not allowed to drink then she should be thankful to her parents and should not complain about it.I don't think any decent sikh parents want their boys to drink and all parents should equally try to stop their boys from drinking.If in future
a son of sikh family become's a drunkard or suffered from kidney or liver disorder due to drinking then parents should be solely blamed for not stopping him from drinking.

 

[Singhstah]

It's quite simple, a household must teach full emphasis on the khanda of bani and bana. Everything happens with naam, naam is what will save all. Furthermore one of the biggest and main reasons for the current state of Sikh bibia is the laxation in bana rehit for bibis. Whatever one's views are on the keski as a kakkar issue, it remains a fact that until Gurmukh Singh Musaifar was Jathedar of Akal Takht Sahib, bibia were not given Khande Di Pahul without wearing at least a Keski. This is FACT. Without Guru Ka bana, how can a Sikh bibi look in the mirror and differentiate herself from a hindu woman? Without the Guru's crown what person in the street would look and see that that is a Singhnee walking? This rehit of Maharaj is a very special one keeping all Sikhs distinct and acts as a guard for one's internal rehit of Bani and Naam, it is like a fence for one's crops. Bibia need Guru Di Dastar and they will not waver, they will not take up bipran ki reet.

 

[Randip Singh]

It's quite simple, a household must teach full emphasis on the khanda of bani and bana. Everything happens with naam, naam is what will save all. Furthermore one of the biggest and main reasons for the current state of Sikh bibia is the laxation in bana rehit for bibis. Whatever one's views are on the keski as a kakkar issue, it remains a fact that until Gurmukh Singh Musaifar was Jathedar of Akal Takht Sahib, bibia were not given Khande Di Pahul without wearing at least a Keski. This is FACT. Without Guru Ka bana, how can a Sikh bibi look in the mirror and differentiate herself from a hindu woman? Without the Guru's crown what person in the street would look and see that that is a Singhnee walking? This rehit of Maharaj is a very special one keeping all Sikhs distinct and acts as a guard for one's internal rehit of Bani and Naam, it is like a fence for one's crops. Bibia need Guru Di Dastar and they will not waver, they will not take up bipran ki reet.

How does a Keski make a difference?

I see people with turban all the time, long beard, short beard, drinking and smoking in secret.

Sikhism comes from within and then manifests itself outside. Not the other way round.