Sikhs In Temples

[Archived_member7]

i dont think you are understanding the point ..but you just want to debate ..so thats your choice ..i leave it to you...

 

[Archived_Member4]

i dont think you are understanding the point ..but you just want to debate ..so thats your choice ..i leave it to you...

I completely understand your point and I am asking you to explain how Sri Guru Ganth Sahib ji is an idol worship and how doing all of this you have described the same for idol and Guru ji?

Air conditioning , perfumes , and lot more ..tell me what is different ? even Ishnan is performed by covered Sahibji with plastic sheet...!!!!

Because clearly you are saying the two are the same, by asking others to contrast from the two

 

[Archived_member7]

well there are clouds of confusion over you and your vision of understanding is blurred by the shear habit to argue and debate...so i again say i leave it to u

 

[Archived_Member4]

well there are clouds of confusion over you and your vision of understanding is blurred by the shear habit to argue and debate...so i again say i leave it to u

Since you choose not to explain yourself. Heres a video that was presented at the beginning of the discussion that will clear things up for you.

YouTube - Idol worship - SIKH RELIGION

Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji is the living Guru. Each page is not called page its an ang of the Guru. The Gurbani in Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji is the word of God.

and here's what Guru Nanak Dev ji says about worshiping idols

Mėhlā 1.
First Mehl:

ਹਿੰਦੂ ਮੂਲੇ ਭੂਲੇ ਅਖੁਟੀ ਜਾਂਹੀ ॥
Hinḏū mūle bẖūle akẖutī jāʼnhī.
The Hindus have forgotten the Primal Lord; they are going the wrong way.

ਨਾਰਦਿ ਕਹਿਆ ਸਿ ਪੂਜ ਕਰਾਂਹੀ ॥
Nāraḏ kahi▫ā sė pūj karāʼnhī.
As Naarad instructed them, they are worshipping idols.

ਅੰਧੇ ਗੁੰਗੇ ਅੰਧ ਅੰਧਾਰੁ ॥
Anḏẖe gunge anḏẖ anḏẖār.
They are blind and mute, the blindest of the blind.

ਪਾਥਰੁ ਲੇ ਪੂਜਹਿ ਮੁਗਧ ਗਵਾਰ ॥
/ Pāthar le pūjėh mugaḏẖ gavār.
The ignorant fools pick up stones and worship them.

ਓਹਿ ਜਾ ਆਪਿ ਡੁਬੇ ਤੁਮ ਕਹਾ ਤਰਣਹਾਰੁ ॥੨॥ (SGGS Ji 556)
Ohi jā āp dube ṯum kahā ṯaraṇhār. ||2||
But when those stones themselves sink, who will carry you across? ||2||

Worshiping Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji one is liberated. Woshiping idols one is losted not liberated.

 

[BhagatSingh]

Singh ji stop posting the same **** over and over again. This thread is about bowing to an idol not worshipping them!

 

[Archived_Member5]

The Sikh religion was formed as a step and move away from idolatry worship of so called avatars and deities, and instead to live the true word and become of the Spirit. Sikhism is a faith that gives birth to an autonomous thinking meritocracy, a strong race of piety and conscientiousness. Its foundation stone is morality and honour based on strong family values. It is best that way, should a religious inspirational Lord rise in our ranks then we welcome such an authority, but I remind you again of the many impediments obstructing the coming of any such Saviour in most faiths.

 

[Archived_member7]

i m sorry for my delayed reply..yes Bhagat ji we can bow before them..we may not worship idols...and i dont know what Singh saab gets ..by argueing ..the thing is we ending up being like second muslims...

 

[Archived_Member4]

i m sorry for my delayed reply..yes Bhagat ji we can bow before them..we may not worship idols...and i dont know what Singh saab gets ..by argueing ..the thing is we ending up being like second muslims...

You and Bhagat Singh can bow all you like to an idol. A Sikh doesn't bow to an idol. Unless you and Bhagat Singh have a tuk from Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji that says a Sikh can bow then a Sikh can, other than that its your guys belief and you two have every right to practice.

 

[pk70]

Singh ji

I would ask my Lord to end my life before I have to bow before an Idol; they are condemned so sternly in Gurbani how I can dare to bow before them to please others. Death is better than selling the soul to others. Guru ji set us free, why would I enslave myself to this for any thing! How others take it, I wouldn’t care; I am responsible for my actions.

 

[BhagatSingh]

You and Bhagat Singh can bow all you like to an idol. A Sikh doesn't bow to an idol. Unless you and Bhagat Singh have a tuk from Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji that says a Sikh can bow then a Sikh can, other than that its your guys belief and you two have every right to practice.

We don't and neither do you, which was why I say its a personal thing.

 

[spnadmin]

Just trying to refocus the discussion by asking these questions. Pretend you are explaining the subtleties of Sikhism to a convert.

1. If you believe that bowing to Sri Guru Granth Sahib is NOT the same as bowing to an idol, can you explain why?

But -- If you DO believe that bowing to Sri Guru Granth Sahib is the SAME as bowing to an idol, then take a look at the second question.

2. Converts are taught that Sikhism is a monotheistic religion. If bowing to Sri Guru Granth Sahib is the same as bowing to an idol, does this mean that Sikhism is not a monothesitic religion?

or,

2.a Would you advise converts that they should NOT bow to Sri Guru Granth Sahib because that would be a form of idol worship?

Please do not direct your answers to me. These questions are for moderation purposes only -- and I have already made up my mind. Please try to direct your answers to the reading audience which includes many converts to Sikhism. Thanx

 

[BhagatSingh]

Pyari Sadh Sangat ji,

Just trying to refocus the discussion by asking these questions. Pretend you are explaining the subtleties of Sikhism to a convert.

1. If you believe that bowing to Sri Guru Granth Sahib is NOT the same as bowing to an idol, can you explain why?

But -- If you DO believe that bowing to Sri Guru Granth Sahib is the SAME as bowing to an idol, then take a look at the second question.

Between an idol and SGGS
Similarities:
-Both lifeless
-both thought to contain God or his word
-both treated in the same way like Rajkhalsa ji mentioned

differences:
- one has the ability to teach (SGGS), the other doesn't (the idol in hindu mythology DOES in fact teach! so we do have to take that into account, if we do this becomes a similarity)

NOTE: if anyone can think of more please add to the list.

How is bowing to SGGS same as bowing to idol?
well, respect! you want to give respect, you bow down.

how is bowing down to SGGS different that bowing down to idol?
well, when you bow to SGGS, you do that to say you want to learn, which you do IF you read or listen.
When you bow down to idol, it is nothing but respect, no gain but personal satisfaction if you are a hindu. Personal satisfaction because you think you are in presence of god, (which you always are even if the idol is not present).

2. Converts are taught that Sikhism is a monotheistic religion. If bowing to Sri Guru Granth Sahib is the same as bowing to an idol, does this mean that Sikhism is not a monothesitic religion?

There are similarities and differences, of course. Again, bowing down does not change anything. You can bow or choose not to bow, it doesn't matter. In the end, your deeds that count.
SGGS of course, does not require you to bow to it.

or,

2.a Would you advise converts that they should NOT bow to Sri Guru Granth Sahib because that would be a form of idol worship?

Well, I don't think bowing down is idol worship unless the worship requires you to bow down. Bowing down in indian culture is sign of respect. It can also mean surrender, in which case Sikhs only surrender to the Lord, NOT EVEN SGGS!!

Please do not direct your answers to me. These questions are for moderation purposes only -- and I have already made up my mind. Please try to direct your answers to the reading audience which includes many converts to Sikhism. Thanx

Thanks for the questions.

Conclusion:
It's a personal thing. You can believe bowing down to be worship, surrender or respect. Depending on which one you feel, you will do things accordingly.

 

[Astroboy]

YouTube - Idol worship - SIKH RELIGION

 

[Astroboy]

YouTube - Aarti - Sikh Prayer

 

[Archived_Member4]

Pyari Sadh Sangat ji,


Between an idol and SGGS
Similarities:
-Both lifeless
-both thought to contain God or his word
-both treated in the same way like Rajkhalsa ji mentioned

differences:
- one has the ability to teach (SGGS), the other doesn't (the idol in hindu mythology DOES in fact teach! so we do have to take that into account, if we do this becomes a similarity)

NOTE: if anyone can think of more please add to the list.

How is bowing to SGGS same as bowing to idol?
well, respect! you want to give respect, you bow down.

how is bowing down to SGGS different that bowing down to idol?
well, when you bow to SGGS, you do that to say you want to learn, which you do IF you read or listen.
When you bow down to idol, it is nothing but respect, no gain but personal satisfaction if you are a hindu. Personal satisfaction because you think you are in presence of god, (which you always are even if the idol is not present).



There are similarities and differences, of course. Again, bowing down does not change anything. You can bow or choose not to bow, it doesn't matter. In the end, your deeds that count.
SGGS of course, does not require you to bow to it.


Well, I don't think bowing down is idol worship unless the worship requires you to bow down. Bowing down in indian culture is sign of respect. It can also mean surrender, in which case Sikhs only surrender to the Lord, NOT EVEN SGGS!!



Thanks for the questions.

Conclusion:
It's a personal thing. You can believe bowing down to be worship, surrender or respect. Depending on which one you feel, you will do things accordingly.

SIREE RAAG, THIRD MEHL: Discarding the Ambrosial Nectar, they greedily grab the poison; they serve others, instead of the Lord. They lose their faith, they have no understanding; night and day, they suffer in pain. The blind, self-willed manmukhs do not even think of the Lord; they are drowned to death without water. || 1 || ang 31​

They all show off and pretend, but the self-willed manmukhs do not​

understand. ang 28

The self-willed manmukhs do not know the Naam. Without the Name, they lose their honor. They do not savor the Taste of the Shabad; they are attached to the love of duality. They are worms in the filth of manure. They fall into manure, and into manure they are absorbed. || 2 || ang 28​

The self-willed manmukhs are polluted. They are filled with the pollution of egotism, wickedness and desire. Without the Shabad, this pollution is not washed off; through the cycle of death and rebirth, they waste away in misery. Engrossed in this transitory drama, they are not at home in either this world or the next. || 3 || ang 29​

 

[BhagatSingh]

Antonia ji you might as well just start deleting unrelated posts. :yes:

 

[spnadmin]

Nam Jap ji

Thank you for the beautiful Artee. In another place in Sri Guru Granth Sahib, Guru Gurji says

ਨਿਵਿ ਨਿਵਿ ਲਾਗਾ ਤੇਰੀ ਪਾਈ ॥
niv niv laagaa thaeree paaee ||
I bow down and fall at Your Feet.

And I think that is an important difference -- we bow and then we prostrate ourselves before Guruji -- in surrender to the Shabad.

 

[spnadmin]

Bhagat ji,

So far mostly everything looks related to the first post in the thread. I checked earlier this evening, wondering myself. So far so good. There are some snide remarks here and there, but not that bad to warrant full scale thread surgery.

Added some thoughts in the last coupla minutes.

 

[Archived_Member4]

Singh ji

I would ask my Lord to end my life before I have to bow before an Idol; they are condemned so sternly in Gurbani how I can dare to bow before them to please others. Death is better than selling the soul to others. Guru ji set us free, why would I enslave myself to this for any thing! How others take it, I wouldn’t care; I am responsible for my actions.

I couldn't agree more. We are not here to please others; this life is about reaching God by the teachings of the Gurus. I bow to an idol after saying I follow Guru ji, call me a self-willed manmukh then.

 

[BhagatSingh]

Bhagat ji,

So far mostly everything looks related to the first post in the thread. I checked earlier this evening, wondering myself. So far so good. There are some snide remarks here and there, but not that bad to warrant full scale thread surgery.

Added some thoughts in the last coupla minutes.

ful scale thread surgery
I like that phrase. :}{}{}: