What Is Naam?

Sherdil · May 5, 2014

angrisha said:
I had a thought as I was reading your post.... if someone believes that murti puja, fasting, etc is the way of truth and thats what they hold in their life... isnt that living with in hukam for there life? Weather someone else sees it as wrong or right, necessary or unnecessary.

Ive stated many times before my understanding has and is constantly changing, and I may be wrong about this as well.

Guru ji does say that according to the Hukam some find the path, while others continue to wander. The catch is that we don't know what the Hukam is, until it has already passed. Indeed it may be the Hukam for someone to do murti puja, but then it is also the Hukam for you to educate them. By the Hukam they may come to learn the truth or not. That doesn't mean we shouldn't act. By acting, we are fulfilling the Hukam. By not acting, we are also fulfilling the Hukam. I see it as fulfilling something that is already written.

angrisha · May 5, 2014

harry haller said:
Guru Nanak stated the truth, he did not invent the truth anymore than Newton invented gravity, empty rituals do not make you a better person, whether you believe it to be truth or not.

some believe that making another a slave is the truth
or that repeating a mantra is the truth and may result in something magical
or that marrying out of caste deserves to be treated with death

the truth is the truth, there is only one truth, how is food deprivation going to educate?

So where did you learn to become so enlightened? what did you study? what life experienced did you use?

err, I just didn't eat for a while, thats what did it for me, far easier lol

I guess I failed to articulate what I meant.... To ppl who perform these empty rituals they may not seem empty to them. So, if by hukam or gurparsad we can become 'enlightened', those that do follow rituals etc isnt then by hukam that they do that?

Even to understand naam, wouldnt that be with hukam that we are able to do that.

japjisahib04 · May 5, 2014

angrisha said:
I guess I failed to articulate what I meant.... To ppl who perform these empty rituals they may not seem empty to them. So, if by hukam or gurparsad we can become 'enlightened', those that do follow rituals etc isnt then by hukam that they do that?

Even to understand naam, wouldnt that be with hukam that we are able to do that.

Hukmi Hukm chalai rahao.. Unlike the traditional interpretation, second pauree of japji sahib promugalate there are two hukmi - one is our mind which rules our body and drags us into vicious vikars or in futile rituals and the other is Akal Purakh which rules the entire universe. Then guru sahib says, 'ਨਾਨਕ ਸਚੁ ਧਿਆਇਨਿ ਸਚੁ ॥ ਜੋ ਮਰਿ ਜੰਮੇ ਸੁ ਕਚੁ ਨਿਕਚੁ ॥੧॥ chattering which keeps in duality and dilemma is kachi baani. Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji.463.9.

best regards

angrisha · May 6, 2014

japjisahib04 said:
Hukmi Hukm chalai rahao.. Unlike the traditional interpretation, second pauree of japji sahib promugalate there are two hukmi - one is our mind which rules our body and drags us into vicious vikars or in futile rituals and the other is Akal Purakh which rules the entire universe. Then guru sahib says, 'ਨਾਨਕ ਸਚੁ ਧਿਆਇਨਿ ਸਚੁ ॥ ਜੋ ਮਰਿ ਜੰਮੇ ਸੁ ਕਚੁ ਨਿਕਚੁ ॥੧॥ chattering which keeps in duality and dilemma is kachi baani. Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji.463.9.

best regards

SainiJi

Thank you for this explanation, I think I just got it! I was having a hard time wrapping my head around this.

gur_meet · May 6, 2014

To understand about Naam these lines from Sukmani Sahib ji are illuminating -

ਨਾਮ ਕੇ ਧਾਰੇ ਸਗਲੇ ਜੰਤ ॥
Naam Kae Dhhaarae Sagalae Janth ||
The Naam is the Support of all creatures.

ਨਾਮ ਕੇ ਧਾਰੇ ਖੰਡ ਬ੍ਰਹਮੰਡ ॥
Naam Kae Dhhaarae Khandd Brehamandd ||
The Naam is the Support of the earth and solar systems.

ਨਾਮ ਕੇ ਧਾਰੇ ਸਿਮ੍ਰਿਤਿ ਬੇਦ ਪੁਰਾਨ ॥
Naam Kae Dhhaarae Simrith Baedh Puraan ||
The Naam is the Support of the Simritees, the Vedas and the Puraanas.

ਨਾਮ ਕੇ ਧਾਰੇ ਸੁਨਨ ਗਿਆਨ ਧਿਆਨ ॥
Naam Kae Dhhaarae Sunan Giaan Dhhiaan ||
The Naam is the Support by which we hear of spiritual wisdom and meditation.

ਨਾਮ ਕੇ ਧਾਰੇ ਆਗਾਸ ਪਾਤਾਲ ॥
Naam Kae Dhhaarae Aagaas Paathaal ||
The Naam is the Support of the Akaashic ethers and the nether regions.

ਨਾਮ ਕੇ ਧਾਰੇ ਸਗਲ ਆਕਾਰ ॥
Naam Kae Dhhaarae Sagal Aakaar ||
The Naam is the Support of all bodies.

ਨਾਮ ਕੇ ਧਾਰੇ ਪੁਰੀਆ ਸਭ ਭਵਨ ॥
Naam Kae Dhhaarae Pureeaa Sabh Bhavan ||
The Naam is the Support of all worlds and realms.

ਨਾਮ ਕੈ ਸੰਗਿ ਉਧਰੇ ਸੁਨਿ ਸ੍ਰਵਨ ॥
Naam Kai Sang Oudhharae Sun Sravan ||
Associating with the Naam, listening to it with the ears, one is saved.

ਕਰਿ ਕਿਰਪਾ ਜਿਸੁ ਆਪਨੈ ਨਾਮਿ ਲਾਏ ॥
Kar Kirapaa Jis Aapanai Naam Laaeae ||
Those whom the Lord mercifully attaches to His Naam

ਨਾਨਕ ਚਉਥੇ ਪਦ ਮਹਿ ਸੋ ਜਨੁ ਗਤਿ ਪਾਏ ॥੫॥
Naanak Chouthhae Padh Mehi So Jan Gath Paaeae ||5||
- O Nanak, in the fourth state, those humble servants attain salvation. ||5||

ਗਉੜੀ ਸੁਖਮਨੀ ਮ : ੫ ਗੁਰੂ ਗ੍ਰੰਥ ਸਾਹਿਬ : ਅੰਗ ੨੮੪ – SGGS 284

The word "Dhhaarae" means support , to keep in place , shaped.
Naam thus is the support of the whole created world.

Naam is representative of Mool in the creation which is evident from the Mool Manter.
The words in the Mool Manter cannot be translated but a meaning or interpretation can be given (which also may not be complete).

In the word 'Satnaam" Sat is translated as truth and so then may cause some misdirection. Sat means truth,true and is a fact , reality ,unchanging , constant etc.

Satnaam comes after Ek ongkar (- explains that creation has come from One and there is oneness ). Satnaam refers to the Sat part in the creation which is Naam.
Naam is unchanging , true reality the support of the other created part. All else in the creation is changing, subject to birth-life-death process.

Naam is everywhere in creation. Naam is within us too.

We can access naam through Simran.
Naam simran takes us to the mool .

wjkk wjkf

Harry Haller · May 6, 2014

We can access naam through Simran.

how would you define simran?

gur_meet · May 6, 2014

Simran is remembrance. As per gurmat Simran is done through following ways -

Jap of gurbani
Jap of guru manter.
Jap of Gurbani Vichar.

The purpose is to shift the state of mind , transform it , to infuse it with love of the mool all around . Naam and mool are one and same.

Simran is the way to transform our mind . To shift awareness within and to then to experience and see oneness all around. Simran enables us to feel Hazuri - presence of Waheguruji within and all around. Simran enables us to shift to a state where haume is relegated to background.

japjisahib04 · May 6, 2014

Very strange access Naam through simran. Lokan ram khilona jaana.

gur_meet · May 6, 2014

japjisahib04 said:
Very strange access Naam through simran. Lokan ram khilona jaana.

One is entitled to one's view .
Then tell what is the purpose of Simran ?

ActsOfGod · May 6, 2014

gur_meet said:
Simran is remembrance. As per gurmat Simran is done through following ways -

Jap of gurbani
Jap of guru manter.
Jap of Gurbani Vichar.

The purpose is to shift the state of mind , transform it , to infuse it with love of the mool all around . Naam and mool are one and same.

Simran is the way to transform our mind . To shift awareness within and to then to experience and see oneness all around. Simran enables us to feel Hazuri - presence of Waheguruji within and all around. Simran enables us to shift to a state where haume is relegated to background.

There are far more visceral experiences in this world to shift ones awareness and transform ones mind.

Walk down the street and witness the suffering and pain that people are struggling through. Sit with them and feel their pain. Hear their cries and laments, and see their anguish with eyes of mercy. Can you feel the pain of a mother who lost her only child? Can you feel all of the suffering, all of the pain, all of misery and not just shut it out and pretend like your life is fine? You will find God there, among the unwashed masses, not in your theoretical constructs and chanting sessions.

AoG

gur_meet · May 6, 2014

gur_meet said:
One is entitled to one's view .
Then tell what is the purpose of Simran ?

Simran is of Naam.
All gurbani talks is about Naam.
Simran leads one to Naam.

ActsOfGod · May 6, 2014

gur_meet said:
Simran is of Naam.
All gurbani talks is about Naam.
Simran leads one to Naam.

What is Naam exactly?

gur_meet · May 6, 2014

ActsOfGod said:
There are far more visceral experiences in this world to shift ones awareness and transform ones mind.

Walk down the street and witness the suffering and pain that people are struggling through. Sit with them and feel their pain. Hear their cries and laments, and see their anguish with eyes of mercy. Can you feel the pain of a mother who lost her only child? Can you feel all of the suffering, all of the pain, all of misery and not just shut it out and pretend like your life is fine? You will find God there, among the unwashed masses, not in your theoretical constructs and chanting sessions.

AoG

You have taken a totally different direction and meaning. You are presupposing so much. Gurbani is not theoretical construct.

This act of empathy cannot take you anywhere and is not the correct way to view the world.
First reflect on purpose of suffering.
The purpose of life experiences.
The purpose for which soul has melded with the physical body and living the life on earth.
The gurbani leads one to view the world from the point of view of love .
Bhai khanaya ji was not a theoretical person.

gur_meet · May 6, 2014

ActsOfGod said:
What is Naam exactly?

How can one explain naam in simple words.
One has to reflect on mool manter.
Reflect on creation and how gurbani explains it.
Naam is the sat - real and unchanging part of creation. Rest is created part.
Guruji call it maya , kurh . This part is subject to destruction , is changing and not permanent.

I have not written long explanatory sentences. But reflection on these aspects through gurbani is the way.
Vichar of gurbani opens up the way to knowledge.

I am just a small person with a sincere intention to express views on naam in this forum after looking at the question.

So Bhul chuk maaf karni.

WJKK WJKF

ActsOfGod · May 6, 2014

gur_meet said:
Naam is the sat - real and unchanging part of creation. Rest is created part.

Ok. How do I access and experience Naam? What is the prescription for this?

I sincerely want to know.

AoG

ActsOfGod · May 6, 2014

gur_meet said:
You have taken a totally different direction and meaning. You are presupposing so much. Gurbani is not theoretical construct.

This act of empathy cannot take you anywhere and is not the correct way to view the world.
First reflect on purpose of suffering.
The purpose of life experiences.
The purpose for which soul has melded with the physical body and living the life on earth.
The gurbani leads one to view the world from the point of view of love .
Bhai khanaya ji was not a theoretical person.

If you don't have empathy then where does that leave you? If you see suffering and you just walk on by, what does it make you other than an armchair philosopher? Bhai Khanaya Ji did not ignore suffering. He took action.

You seem to be propagating the idea of sitting around and philosophizing without actually doing anything.

From what I know, Naam is an active force. Every person in history who was imbued with Naam actually took massive action and we're still talking about them today (for example Bhai Khanaya Ji).

So, the way I measure it is this: words are meaningless, and talk is cheap. If I haven't actually done anything, taken any action, then I am full of crap. The real Naam is an active force that motives a person into action, and we can only judge by results. All the beloved GurSikhs who came before us didn't talk about Naam, they showed us what a person imbued with Naam becomes.

AoG

gur_meet · May 7, 2014

ActsOfGod said:
If you don't have empathy then where does that leave you? If you see suffering and you just walk on by, what does it make you other than an armchair philosopher? Bhai Khanaya Ji did not ignore suffering. He took action.

You seem to be propagating the idea of sitting around and philosophizing without actually doing anything.

From what I know, Naam is an active force. Every person in history who was imbued with Naam actually took massive action and we're still talking about them today (for example Bhai Khanaya Ji).

So, the way I measure it is this: words are meaningless, and talk is cheap. If I haven't actually done anything, taken any action, then I am full of crap. The real Naam is an active force that motives a person into action, and we can only judge by results. All the beloved GurSikhs who came before us didn't talk about Naam, they showed us what a person imbued with Naam becomes.

AoG

First I am making it clear that at no point I have propogated the idea of sitting around and philosophizing without actually doing anything.
You are unjustly using strong words.

You have refered to Naam being active force. I agree . But are you supposing that Naam expresses the only way as you state through the gursikhs who have taken action. You are doing injustice to innumerable gursikhs who have quietly achieved state of naam . Their are not in limelight neither the small changes they have brought.

Do you believe that Naam can come to only those who intend to take action or Naam induces state of action. Further this action has to be to feel suffering and take action.

You are confining Naam's action to a particular way. Sorry we are to be guided by the Guru only. See panna 305

ਗੁਰ ਸਤਿਗੁਰ ਕਾ ਜੋ ਸਿਖੁ ਅਖਾਏ ਸੁ ਭਲਕੇ ਉਠਿ ਹਰਿ ਨਾਮੁ ਧਿਆਵੈ ॥
Gur Sathigur Kaa Jo Sikh Akhaaeae S Bhalakae Outh Har Naam Dhhiaavai ||
One who calls himself a Sikh of the Guru the True Guru shall rise in the early morning hours and meditate on the Lord's Name.

ਉਦਮੁ ਕਰੇ ਭਲਕੇ ਪਰਭਾਤੀ ਇਸਨਾਨੁ ਕਰੇ ਅੰਮ੍ਰਿਤ ਸਰਿ ਨਾਵੈ ॥
Oudham Karae Bhalakae Parabhaathee Eisanaan Karae Anmrith Sar Naavai ||
Upon arising early in the morning, he is to bathe, and cleanse himself in the pool of nectar.

ਉਪਦੇਸਿ ਗੁਰੂ ਹਰਿ ਹਰਿ ਜਪੁ ਜਾਪੈ ਸਭਿ ਕਿਲਵਿਖ ਪਾਪ ਦੋਖ ਲਹਿ ਜਾਵੈ ॥
Oupadhaes Guroo Har Har Jap Jaapai Sabh Kilavikh Paap Dhokh Lehi Jaavai ||
Following the Instructions of the Guru, he is to chant the Name of the Lord, Har, Har. All sins, misdeeds and negativity shall be erased.

ਫਿਰਿ ਚੜੈ ਦਿਵਸੁ ਗੁਰਬਾਣੀ ਗਾਵੈ ਬਹਦਿਆ ਉਠਦਿਆ ਹਰਿ ਨਾਮੁ ਧਿਆਵੈ ॥
Fir Charrai Dhivas Gurabaanee Gaavai Behadhiaa Outhadhiaa Har Naam Dhhiaavai ||
Then, at the rising of the sun, he is to sing Gurbani; whether sitting down or standing up, he is to meditate on the Lord's Name.

ਗਉੜੀ ਕੀ ਵਾਰ : ੧ ਮ : ੪ ਗੁਰੂ ਗ੍ਰੰਥ ਸਾਹਿਬ : ਅੰਗ ੩੦੫ ਪੰ . ੧੮

Can you blame the Guru for propagating sitting around like how you are saying.

Lastly Gursikhs are always prepared for seva in what ever way the opportunity comes.

ActsOfGod · May 7, 2014

gur_meet said:
First I am making it clear that at no point I have propogated the idea of sitting around and philosophizing without actually doing anything.
You are unjustly using strong words.

You have refered to Naam being active force. I agree . But are you supposing that Naam expresses the only way as you state through the gursikhs who have taken action. You are doing injustice to innumerable gursikhs who have quietly achieved state of naam . Their are not in limelight neither the small changes they have brought.

Do you believe that Naam can come to only those who intend to take action or Naam induces state of action. Further this action has to be to feel suffering and take action.

You are confining Naam's action to a particular way. Sorry we are to be guided by the Guru only. See panna 305

 ਗੁਰ [/FONT] ਸਤਿਗੁਰ[/FONT] ਕਾ[/FONT] ਜੋ[/FONT] ਸਿਖੁ[/FONT] ਅਖਾਏ[/FONT] ਸੁ[/FONT] ਭਲਕੇ[/FONT] ਉਠਿ[/FONT] ਹਰਿ[/FONT] ਨਾਮੁ[/FONT] ਧਿਆਵੈ[/FONT] ॥[/FONT]
Gur Sathigur Kaa Jo Sikh Akhaaeae S Bhalakae Outh Har Naam Dhhiaavai ||
One who calls himself a Sikh of the Guru the True Guru shall rise in the early morning hours and meditate on the Lord's Name.
ਉਦਮੁ[/FONT] ਕਰੇ[/FONT] ਭਲਕੇ[/FONT] ਪਰਭਾਤੀ[/FONT] ਇਸਨਾਨੁ[/FONT] ਕਰੇ[/FONT] ਅੰਮ੍ਰਿਤ[/FONT] ਸਰਿ[/FONT] ਨਾਵੈ[/FONT] ॥[/FONT]
Oudham Karae Bhalakae Parabhaathee Eisanaan Karae Anmrith Sar Naavai ||
Upon arising early in the morning, he is to bathe, and cleanse himself in the pool of nectar.
ਉਪਦੇਸਿ[/FONT] ਗੁਰੂ[/FONT] ਹਰਿ[/FONT] ਹਰਿ[/FONT] ਜਪੁ[/FONT] ਜਾਪੈ[/FONT] ਸਭਿ[/FONT] ਕਿਲਵਿਖ[/FONT] ਪਾਪ[/FONT] ਦੋਖ[/FONT] ਲਹਿ[/FONT] ਜਾਵੈ[/FONT] ॥[/FONT]
Oupadhaes Guroo Har Har Jap Jaapai Sabh Kilavikh Paap Dhokh Lehi Jaavai ||
Following the Instructions of the Guru, he is to chant the Name of the Lord, Har, Har. All sins, misdeeds and negativity shall be erased.
ਫਿਰਿ[/FONT] ਚੜੈ[/FONT] ਦਿਵਸੁ[/FONT] ਗੁਰਬਾਣੀ[/FONT] ਗਾਵੈ[/FONT] ਬਹਦਿਆ[/FONT] ਉਠਦਿਆ[/FONT] ਹਰਿ[/FONT] ਨਾਮੁ[/FONT] ਧਿਆਵੈ[/FONT] ॥[/FONT]
Fir Charrai Dhivas Gurabaanee Gaavai Behadhiaa Outhadhiaa Har Naam Dhhiaavai ||
Then, at the rising of the sun, he is to sing Gurbani; whether sitting down or standing up, he is to meditate on the Lord's Name.
ਗਉੜੀ[/FONT] ਕੀ[/FONT] ਵਾਰ[/FONT]:੧[/FONT] (ਮ[/FONT]: ੪[/FONT]) ਗੁਰੂ[/FONT] ਗ੍ਰੰਥ[/FONT] ਸਾਹਿਬ[/FONT] : ਅੰਗ[/FONT] ੩੦੫[/FONT] ਪੰ[/FONT]. ੧੮[/FONT]

[/FONT]
Can you blame the Guru for propagating sitting around like how you are saying.

Lastly Gursikhs are always prepared for seva in what ever way the opportunity comes.

The shabad you have quoted is giving instruction on the lifestyle of a GurSikh. What is laid out is how to conduct ones daily activities. There is no "sitting around" in that shabad. It is a prescription for how to organize your day and get organized for daily life.

gur_meet said:
You are unjustly using strong words.

I don't mean to hurt your feelings. I apologize if I caused you any pain.

gur_meet said:
You have refered to Naam being active force. I agree . But are you supposing that Naam expresses the only way as you state through the gursikhs who have taken action. You are doing injustice to innumerable gursikhs who have quietly achieved state of naam . Their are not in limelight neither the small changes they have brought.

Do you believe that Naam can come to only those who intend to take action or Naam induces state of action. Further this action has to be to feel suffering and take action.

That's my whole point. According to my understanding (and I could be wrong), when someone is filled with Naam, everything changes in their life. It's like being in love. Have you ever seen someone who is truly in love? The world calls him Deewana ("mad"). Because he cares for nothing except his beloved, and he has the bravery of a lion, willing to risk his life, willing to undergo untold hardships, etc. There is a story which is very fitting.

A soldier is talking with a general as they watch the surveillance tape of a man's bold and daring rescue of his younger sister from her captors. He risks his life, risking torture and certain death, to save her from them. As they are watching the tape, the soldier exclaims, "He's mad!"

"No," the general replies, "it's something far more dangerous. It's Love."

So when I talk about Naam being an active force, what I mean is that it motivates a person to get out of their comfort zone and to become a change agent in the world. I really doubt that someone would sit in their home counting beads on a rosary after they've been hit with the lightning bolt that is Naam. Again, I could be wrong, but this is what I understand.

And it's not only about injustice in the world. It's about helping others, in a real sense. There are many ways to help: with money, with time, with effort, with kindness, with love, with caring, just listening to someone, helping to solve their problems, etc.

It's high time that the Sikhs actually put into practice what they've been learning.

Guru's Bani (from what I understand) is not meant to be just recited. We are being taught things on many levels and once we read Bani, we must understand it and plant it in our hearts and minds, and then apply it in our daily life. This means taking action, changing our old behaviors, putting new behaviors into practice, actually benefiting mankind (not just reciting the Bani but actually doing what it says).

Our numbers are few, and it usually takes only ONE Sikh for massive things to happen. But then again, when you're imbued with Naam, ONE is more than enough.

Sorry, don't mean to offend you. But, unlike other religions, Sikhi is not about sitting and reciting some mantra and chanting and then going home. So you sang a shabad, so what? Did it help that teen who is hooked on drugs? Did it help the homeless who has been hungry for four days? Did it please your Guru? Where was your mind even when you were singing the shabad? Was it really attuned to Vaheguru, or thinking about worldly matters?

When you are imbued with Naam, you can't help but be a change for good in the world. It's automatic.

AoG

gur_meet · May 7, 2014

ActsOfGod said:
But, unlike other religions, Sikhi is not about sitting and reciting some mantra and chanting and then going home. So you sang a shabad, so what? Did it help that teen who is hooked on drugs? Did it help the homeless who has been hungry for four days? Did it please your Guru? Where was your mind even when you were singing the shabad? Was it really attuned to Vaheguru, or thinking about worldly matters?

When you are imbued with Naam, you can't help but be a change for good in the world. It's automatic.

AoG

Your post is about Dukh in the world and does Naam induces one to be a change agent. To bring a difference. Let us first with look at this aspect .

I normally avoid talking about myself but let this be one exception. Disease is one kind of suffering one encounters. Long back I wanted to be in medical profession but in reality circumstances had put me in finance field. As from my school days I privately had been studying medical systems, psychology etc. So i started learning about alternative medicine. Ayurveda , nature therapy ,acupressure , magnetic therapy and so many. But found Homeopathy the best so started. Even had registration as a Doctor. Family and friends were coming for medicines .There were other references too. I found some diseases were gone soon some took time and some did not budge at all. People were in pain. So I kept up the learning and came to role of Mind in disease. Gurbani explains that Vikar have role in bringing about Dukh. So then started learning about about Mind-body medicine. Role of meditation in healing. Also as to how disease and other sufferings are a part of our world. The vikars are with us right from the time of birth. We have a personalty then and there . Is there a role of prior births. Gurbani explains ' janam janam ki mann ko mal lagi , kala hova sya ." meaning we have this affliction from prior births too. ( I suggest that you read the Book Soul's Plan by Robert Schwartz to know more about this and to have a better perspective on suffering in the world)

At early stage itself there were some principles of action chosen by me. Of these one was not to follow any dera, baba etc. For this kept in mind guru's direction - "Ram Rahim Puran Qoran anek kahay mut ek na maanyo " meaning what ever secrets are attributed in the name of Ram , Rahim ,Quran ,Puran etc were not to be followed. Next principle was to validate all external thought with gurbani's teachings.

Gurbani views suffering as a medicine. Dukh has potential to become change agent. When do we become more spiritual. Do prayers.
Vikars are a cause of so many problems in this world. The choices exercised by people have source in these. Vikars dominate our minds. These are overpowering. A person with big ego and in anger would only act and behave in anger. When these persons are in power so what happens is what we have been seeing in human history.

Mind is such that it is dominated by thought and feelings.When there is negative then there is a sequence of negative thoughts , judgments , rationalizations , justifications for the action. All these come from the subconscious mind. The store house of our beliefs ,memory and learning.
We are not individuals but a group as well. We are affected by not only individual consciousness but by group consciousness as well. ( Here is where role of sadh sangat comes in. Guruji has made it a transformation agent as well).
And when we have positive feelings and positive thoughts. The actions are accordingly. Gurbani changes the mind. Gurbani brings in our mind touch of Naam .Positive attracts more of positive. Only a positive mind is more nearer to Naam.

I can only picture what Bhai Khanaya ji's stae of mind would be. A quite type of person who had been listening and knowing about gurbani. He understood about oneness. He understood the play of the world. He may not have been efficient as to wield arms in battle.But took seva of serving water. He acted out oneness teaching of gurbani. As was not acting from a state of mind which had vikar of anger or revenge .

Everyone to a seva "jesi o Karaye" -as is how the same is arranged.

Harry Haller · May 8, 2014

I normally avoid talking about myself but let this be one exception. Disease is one kind of suffering one encounters. Long back I wanted to be in medical profession but in reality circumstances had put me in finance field. As from my school days I privately had been studying medical systems, psychology etc. So i started learning about alternative medicine. Ayurveda , nature therapy ,acupressure , magnetic therapy and so many. But found Homeopathy the best so started. Even had registration as a Doctor. Family and friends were coming for medicines .There were other references too. I found some diseases were gone soon some took time and some did not budge at all. People were in pain. So I kept up the learning and came to role of Mind in disease. Gurbani explains that Vikar have role in bringing about Dukh. So then started learning about about Mind-body medicine. Role of meditation in healing. Also as to how disease and other sufferings are a part of our world. The vikars are with us right from the time of birth. We have a personalty then and there . Is there a role of prior births. Gurbani explains ' janam janam ki mann ko mal lagi , kala hova sya ." meaning we have this affliction from prior births too. ( I suggest that you read the Book Soul's Plan by Robert Schwartz to know more about this and to have a better perspective on suffering in the world)

Interestingly 'Soul's plan' is categorised in Amazon as

Your Soul's Plan: Discovering the Real Meaning of the Life ...
www.amazon.co.uk › ... › New Age › Occult › Reincarnation & Afterlife
Your Soul's Plan (which was originally published under the title Courageous Souls: Do We Plan Our Life Challenges Before Birth?) explores the premise that we ...

new age>occult

your theory that Vikars are with us from birth is nothing more than a mishmash of Hindu and Christian philosophy. I think if my big sis were here now, she would be horrified by the above, because in your eyes, she handled it wrongly, she was absolutely against meditation and mumbling as a means of getting close to God

At early stage itself there were some principles of action chosen by me. Of these one was not to follow any dera, baba etc. For this kept in mind guru's direction - "Ram Rahim Puran Qoran anek kahay mut ek na maanyo " meaning what ever secrets are attributed in the name of Ram , Rahim ,Quran ,Puran etc were not to be followed. Next principle was to validate all external thought with gurbani's teachings.

secrets? what secrets? Sikhism is so simple the village idiot could understand the basics, it revolves around truth and truthful living.

Gurbani views suffering as a medicine. Dukh has potential to become change agent. When do we become more spiritual. Do prayers.
Vikars are a cause of so many problems in this world. The choices exercised by people have source in these. Vikars dominate our minds. These are overpowering. A person with big ego and in anger would only act and behave in anger. When these persons are in power so what happens is what we have been seeing in human history.

I am sorry to be quoting my big sis again, but to the end she suffered and she bore it with the biggest dose of Chardi Kala possible, I do not think she would agree that Gurbani views suffering as a medicine, again, this seems an Abrahamic view, rather than a Sikh one.

Mind is such that it is dominated by thought and feelings.When there is negative then there is a sequence of negative thoughts , judgments , rationalizations , justifications for the action. All these come from the subconscious mind. The store house of our beliefs ,memory and learning.
We are not individuals but a group as well. We are affected by not only individual consciousness but by group consciousness as well. ( Here is where role of sadh sangat comes in. Guruji has made it a transformation agent as well).
And when we have positive feelings and positive thoughts. The actions are accordingly. Gurbani changes the mind. Gurbani brings in our mind touch of Naam .Positive attracts more of positive. Only a positive mind is more nearer to Naam.

this is bordering on proselytising....

I can only picture what Bhai Khanaya ji's stae of mind would be. A quite type of person who had been listening and knowing about gurbani. He understood about oneness. He understood the play of the world. He may not have been efficient as to wield arms in battle.But took seva of serving water. He acted out oneness teaching of gurbani. As was not acting from a state of mind which had vikar of anger or revenge .

maybe he just wanted to help people because he saw god in them, its a pretty simple concept