And when was that written in relation to the actual event? I do hope this isn't another convenient self-fulfilling prophecy as written by the author
Why Is Sikhism The True Religion?
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And when was that written in relation to the actual event? I do hope this isn't another convenient self-fulfilling prophecy as written by the author
it happened not much time afterwards.
http://www.bibletrack.org/cgi-bin/bible.pl?incr=0&mo=11&dy=14#Tough
Nebuchadnezzar's army simply surrounded the city of Jerusalem, and over a period of 18 months they ran out of food according to Jeremiah 52:4-6 (see notes). Add to that a drought, and we see unbearable conditions in Jerusalem. Notice verse 4, "The tongue of the sucking child cleaveth to the roof of his mouth for thirst: the young children ask bread, and no man breaketh it unto them." Imprisoned in Jerusalem without food - the babies were starving for nourishment. And then...the unthinkable in verse 10, "The hands of the pitiful women have sodden their own children: they were their meat in the destruction of the daughter of my people." That's right - cannibalism right there in Jerusalem. As a matter of fact, everyone suffered the same discomfort prior to their fall due to this starvation tactic used by the Babylonians - even the leadership. Verses 7-8 indicate that the appearance of the leaders of Jerusalem (Hebrew: "naziyr" i.e. consecrated ones, translated in the KJV as Nazarites) were visibly malnourished and poorly groomed.
I am glad Kairos agrees that the God he serves is a rapist and a murderer of babies. Furthermore, he condones and justifies why the God he serves is a rapist and a murderer. How interesting and what a shame!
if that is the conclusion you draw, after a carefully study of the facts, shall it be. I think any unbiased person, which will examine the facts without preconceptions, will draw a other picture, and come to other conclusions.
My post:
Originally Posted by Tejwant Singh
I am glad Kairos agrees that the God he serves is a rapist and a murderer of babies. Furthermore, he condones and justifies why the God he serves is a rapist and a murderer. How interesting and what a shame!
Kairos fails to understand that facts speak for themselves. It would help if he checked the meaning of "conclusion" in a dictionary which has nothing to do with the facts and facts are stated very clearly in the Bible.
If one has to justify for the atrocities and barbarities committed by the God one serves then it proves one more thing that this God can not be anything but a fiend rather than loving.
It is sad to notice that Kairos embraces this kind of brutality rather than condemning it vehemently.
Originally Posted by Tejwant Singh
I am glad Kairos agrees that the God he serves is a rapist and a murderer of babies. Furthermore, he condones and justifies why the God he serves is a rapist and a murderer. How interesting and what a shame!
Kairos fails to understand that facts speak for themselves. It would help if he checked the meaning of "conclusion" in a dictionary which has nothing to do with the facts and facts are stated very clearly in the Bible.
If one has to justify for the atrocities and barbarities committed by the God one serves then it proves one more thing that this God can not be anything but a fiend rather than loving.
It is sad to notice that Kairos embraces this kind of brutality rather than condemning it vehemently.
My post:
Originally Posted by Tejwant Singh
I am glad Kairos agrees that the God he serves is a rapist and a murderer of babies. Furthermore, he condones and justifies why the God he serves is a rapist and a murderer. How interesting and what a shame!
Kairos fails to understand that facts speak for themselves. It would help if he checked the meaning of "conclusion" in a dictionary which has nothing to do with the facts and facts are stated very clearly in the Bible.
If one has to justify for the atrocities and barbarities committed by the God one serves then it proves one more thing that this God can not be anything but a fiend rather than loving.
It is sad to notice that Kairos embraces this kind of brutality rather than condemning it vehemently.
As said. study the historical context of the facts, why God judged the jews, why the Babylonians invaded Israel and deported the jews to babylon. Than you might understand better. God punishes sin, and the jews did fall in deep sin and did not repent from their ways, despite God sent messengers, prophets, to warn them, and to leave their idols, magics, offerings of their own babies, which they burned as offerings to pagan deities, etc. When the cup was full, God punished them, permitted them to go through suffering, as they did. Long before this happened, God warned them and asked them to return from their ill ways.
in Hesekiel 18:30 God said to the jews :
“Therefore I will judge each person according to his conduct, 35 O house of Israel, declares the sovereign Lord. Repent 36 and turn from all your wickedness; then it will not be an obstacle leading to iniquity. 37 18:31 Throw away all your sins you have committed and fashion yourselves a new heart and a new spirit! 38 Why should you die, O house of Israel? 18:32 For I take no delight in the death of anyone, 39 declares the sovereign Lord. Repent and live!
Your above one more justification states that the God whom you call omnipotent made people do these things. In other words, the rapist and the murderer God you serve is himself the instigator of all the crimes committed. You keep on proving my point about your fiendish God.
Secondly, Hesekiel said all that. I had no idea Hesekiel was your God. Give us some details about him and when and why he wrote this and why did he play your God?
Anyone can pretend to be God to justify the rapes and the murders. What a shame that you embrace this kind of immorality in your God!
Lastly, repentance is only needed where love is absent.
Omnipotence and “all powerful” are incorrect words to use when encompassing all possibilities of illogical or self-contradicting occurances.
You continue not aknowledging the reasons of these judgements , when it says in Jeremiah 19 versicle 15 :
"Thus saith the LORD of hosts, the God of Israel; Behold, I will bring upon this city and upon all her towns all the evil that I have pronounced against it, because they have hardened their necks, that they might not hear my words."
http://hubpages.com/hub/God-Judges-Sin
God is the Creator, and the whole creation is responsive to God. By His rights as Creator He can do whatever He wills with all people and all things He has created. Good is not capricious (impulsive, irrational) in the use of His power, and He can do no evil, but He has the absolute right to rule as judge over His creatures, to reward righteousness and punish evil as He sees fit.
When people deny God is the creator, there is doubtlessly involved in this a deep seated desire to be free from the accountability to God. God is the creator, we are accountable to Him, and He has the right to tell us what is right and wrong and also to judge us for wrongdoing.
Hesekiel was a prophet, which wrote and adverted Israel in Gods name.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ezekiel
Ezekiel was a prophet, the son of Buzi. He was one of the Israelite exiles who settled at a place called Tel-abib (mound of the deluge), on the banks of the Chebar River "in the land of the Chaldeans."[1] Traditionally, the book is thought to have been written in the 500s BC during the Babylonian exile of the southern Israelite kingdom, Judah. This estimate is supported by evidence that the author uses a dating system which was only used in the 500s BC
Do you deny that your God is omnipotent? Please respond in yes or no.
If your God is not omnipotent then He is a weakling mortal like anyone else. Thanks for clarifying that.
Talking about Ezekiel:
GOD created perfect EVIL. (Ezekiel 28:15)
GOD said to the others. Follow Him through the city and kill, without showing pity or compassion. Slaughter old men, young men and maidens, women and children. (Ezekiel 9:5-6)
What a shame that this kind of evil,rapist and murderer God you serve and these are the facts mentioned in the Bible.
In Christianity we have this statement regarding God being able to create a rock too big to move, or this sort of thing. “Nonsense is nonsense, even when you try to apply it to God.”Omnibenevolence and “all loving” are also incorrect words to try to apply to our Holy Creator. God does not love satan nor his demons, for example. Omniscience and Omnipresence are accurate words which do not encompass meanings which result in hyper-technical contradiction.
please dont put words in my mouth.
[/QUOTE]
if you truly want to learn about the God i serve, i suggest you clarify your doubts through knowledgeable sources, which explain the bible in a clear way, which you can understand :
http://www.bibletrack.org/
otherwise we can go on and on, and it will not lead to anything, anyway.
I have already observed, you have a hostile attitude towards the God of the bible, and i don't think by clarifying your questions, you will change your opinion.
Kairos ji
Forum member Tejwant ji is not expressing his hostile attitude. All he is doing is listing over several posts examples of hostility, aggression and animosity expressed by the god depicted in the Hebrew Testament from which the god of the Christian Testament is derived.
Now the god of the Christian Testament is alleged to evolved to a god of love - for he so loved that he gave his son etc. He so loved creation that he gave is son to be crucified, die an horrific death, because of his love for a humanity that he still considered to be sinful. So this new god of the Christians, who does not appear to have evolved at all from a god of anger to a god of love, is still indulging in human sacrifice at the hands of the Jews and Romans for a personal objective.
And today when there are catastrophic events visited by humans on each other, such as war, terrorism, and state sponsored starvation and persecution, there is a fanatical Christian somewhere in the news who will declare this to be his/her god's punishment for sin. More human sacrifice for divine retribution. The hostile entity appears to be this god, and many of his followers who feel empowered by him, not an SPN forum member.
Can you not see how members of non Abrahamic traditions find this to be a god of anger and retribution, and a stunning contradiction?
Forum member Tejwant ji is not expressing his hostile attitude. All he is doing is listing over several posts examples of hostility, aggression and animosity expressed by the god depicted in the Hebrew Testament from which the god of the Christian Testament is derived.
Now the god of the Christian Testament is alleged to evolved to a god of love - for he so loved that he gave his son etc. He so loved creation that he gave is son to be crucified, die an horrific death, because of his love for a humanity that he still considered to be sinful. So this new god of the Christians, who does not appear to have evolved at all from a god of anger to a god of love, is still indulging in human sacrifice at the hands of the Jews and Romans for a personal objective.
And today when there are catastrophic events visited by humans on each other, such as war, terrorism, and state sponsored starvation and persecution, there is a fanatical Christian somewhere in the news who will declare this to be his/her god's punishment for sin. More human sacrifice for divine retribution. The hostile entity appears to be this god, and many of his followers who feel empowered by him, not an SPN forum member.
Can you not see how members of non Abrahamic traditions find this to be a god of anger and retribution, and a stunning contradiction?
Once again, you have dodged the question and hence not being truthful which shows that your belief teaches you how not to be honest and truthful. You have become very good at dodging things when asked direct questions.
Let me ask you again.
Is the God you serve omnipotent or not?
Please respond in a yes or no manner.
Your above statement shows nothing but arrogance on your part. As mentioned before, I am very well versed in the OT and NT from where your religion is derived. Hence, I ask these questions to you which you dodge and arrogantly tell me to study. It is hillarious to say the least.
It is a shame to see that you have preconceived notion about me. You claim to know more about others than about yourself.A typical pious Christian you are.
You have shown many of your non-Christian characteristics but I never thought that you would also show this one, that is to be a liar.
How can I be hostile towards the God of the Bible when the Bible says that the God you serve is evil,rapist and a murderer?
So, who is hostile here? Please be truthful this time.
It makes no sense but it is easy to blame others. I think it is you who needs to read your own scriptures in an honest and with an open mind, otherwise you will keep on justifying the rapes and the murders committed by your God.
I have quoted the verses from your Bible. I did not make up anything as you have been doing in your posts to me and to others. If you claim that the Bible is hostile, then be honest enough and say so.
It seems that you are just angry and frustrated because you came to this forum with an agenda and when challenged about the verses regarding your own Evil, Rapist, Murderer God,you dodged the questions and then accused me of being hostile.
We can both learn from each other, provided you are honest which you have not been. You do not even know the difference between facts which are objective and conclusions which are subjective. Many people can come to different conclusions with their subjectivity but facts do not change. That was the reason I asked you to consult the English dictionary which you failed to do and kept mum about it.
So, if you want to learn anything about Sikhi, please do not hesitate to ask any questions and we will do our best to respond.
And also if you want to share your faith, then be prepared to be honest and respond the questions in an honest manner.
Narayanjot ji's posts sums it all up and I thank her for that.
I hope to get the responses from you as Jesus would and did when he was asked, in an honest manner.
Tejwant Singh
the God of the Old Testament, is the same God of the New Testament.
It has pointed out already, God does not let sin unpunished.
http://elshamah.heavenforum.com/bib...mmit-atrocities-in-the-old-testament-t148.htm
These stories offend our moral sensibilities. Ironically, however, the moral sensibilities in the West have been largely, and for many people unconsciously, shaped by our Judaeo-Christian heritage, which has taught us the intrinsic value of human beings, the importance of dealing justly rather than capriciously, and the necessity of the punishment’s fitting the crime. The Bible itself inculcates the values which these stories seem to violate.
The God of anger is the same God of love. God is justice, and he does not leave unpunished crimes and sins. We will all be judged according to our lifes.
But God is love as well. He does not want that anyone perishes, but that we shall live. For this reason, he send Jesus , to pay as substitute for the sins of all humanity, and all that put their faith in him, will be saved.
God cannot be blamed, if people do commit crimes in his name. Beside this, terrorism today is more atributed to muslim radicals, that christians.
I repeat again : Gods sense of justice doesnt leave the guilt one unpunished.
If you want to understand more, have a read here :
http://www.2pi.info/bible/plan/GodsJustice/GodandJustice.html
Once again, you have dodged the question and hence not being truthful which shows that your belief teaches you how not to be honest and truthful. You have become very good at dodging things when asked direct questions.
Let me ask you again.
Is the God you serve omnipotent or not?
Please respond in a yes or no manner.
Your above statement shows nothing but arrogance on your part. As mentioned before, I am very well versed in the OT and NT from where your religion is derived. Hence, I ask these questions to you which you dodge and arrogantly tell me to study. It is hillarious to say the least.
It is a shame to see that you have preconceived notion about me. You claim to know more about others than about yourself.A typical pious Christian you are.
You have shown many of your non-Christian characteristics but I never thought that you would also show this one, that is to be a liar.
How can I be hostile towards the God of the Bible when the Bible says that the God you serve is evil,rapist and a murderer?
So, who is hostile here? Please be truthful this time.
It makes no sense but it is easy to blame others. I think it is you who needs to read your own scriptures in an honest and with an open mind, otherwise you will keep on justifying the rapes and the murders committed by your God.
I have quoted the verses from your Bible. I did not make up anything as you have been doing in your posts to me and to others. If you claim that the Bible is hostile, then be honest enough and say so.
It seems that you are just angry and frustrated because you came to this forum with an agenda and when challenged about the verses regarding your own Evil, Rapist, Murderer God,you dodged the questions and then accused me of being hostile.
We can both learn from each other, provided you are honest which you have not been. You do not even know the difference between facts which are objective and conclusions which are subjective. Many people can come to different conclusions with their subjectivity but facts do not change. That was the reason I asked you to consult the English dictionary which you failed to do and kept mum about it.
So, if you want to learn anything about Sikhi, please do not hesitate to ask any questions and we will do our best to respond.
And also if you want to share your faith, then be prepared to be honest and respond the questions in an honest manner.
Narayanjot ji's posts sums it all up and I thank her for that.
I hope to get the responses from you as Jesus would and did when he was asked, in an honest manner.
Tejwant Singh
You are accusing me of many things, amongst them, that i am a liar. I think you will not desire to spend your precious time to share and discuss different issues with someone, that you call and consider a liar. You would not learn anything. Therefore, i think our discussion should have a end here.
I knew you would not be able to respond to any of the questions asked about your own blind faith/belief.
Now, if you want to know anything about Sikhi, please feel free to do that but no more of your Christian agenda will be accepted here.
FYI, Sikhi is neither a faith nor a belief system because it is not based on dogmas like Hell and Heaven as Christianity and many other religions are.
Sikh, meaning a student, a learner, a seeker is open minded because SGGS, our only Guru-Teacher gives us the tools how to be pragmatists rather than dogmatic.
Enjoy your journey which ever path you choose but never undermine others' paths by claiming that yours is the only way because you say so. It shows nothing but makes your only "God" some insecure entity.
Sikhi respects all religions. Become a better Christian by loving all humanity irrespective of their hue,creed or faith.
If you can not see God in ALL, then you can not see God at all.
Regards
Tejwant Singh
are you the moderator/owner of this forum ? if not, based on what authority are you asking me this ?
No, I am not. I am just a member. What I meant was that you will be questioned about any nonsense you post from now on. I kept quiet for a long time and let you babble. It is not going to happen anymore.
This is the reason I asked you to respond to my questions about your faith so we can learn from each other. But you refused and your Christian agenda will not be tolerated and I will participate actively from now on.
So, you better watch what you post. It is easy to copy and paste websites rather than sharing your own thought process provided one has been able to cultivate it. Sikhi is not about parroting.
Tejwant Singh
In this case, its not your job to tell me, what is , and what is not accepted at this forum. You could learn from me, if you would be open minded, and behave in a respectful manner. Its not the case, therefore, its better you search someone else, you can behave the way you do.
SSA.
kairos Ji, in my opinion your God from the bible seems a very jealous God, Jealous, Violent, Sexist, Racist and i can carry on. Yes i have read the bible OT & NT. You came into this forum claiming you wanted to learn about Sikhism yet on the same note proclaiming your God is the only God. Its seems like schoolground behaviour where one kid says my dad can beat up your dad lol.
kairos Ji, in my opinion your God from the bible seems a very jealous God, Jealous, Violent, Sexist, Racist and i can carry on. Yes i have read the bible OT & NT. You came into this forum claiming you wanted to learn about Sikhism yet on the same note proclaiming your God is the only God. Its seems like schoolground behaviour where one kid says my dad can beat up your dad lol.
My Dear Fellow "SPNers"
Can I lend my support to the last few posts from Tejwant Singh Ji, Ugsbay Ji and Naryanjot Kaur Ji
I find it remarkable how people come here to proclaim that theirs' is the the only true faith and how they then engage in circular reasoning to justify their beliefs...like Bible prophecy...interesting how these "prophecies" were written after the actual events occurred!
Or trying to prove the integrity of something using the thing to be proved as the source of its own proof....
Then they blatantly ignore the fact that over time, bits have been added, taken away, translated and edited upteen times etc etc....need I go on???
If someone is on a particular path and are happy there, then that's fine. But don't try and sell it as the true way to others .... and if you do, then don't be surprised if you get some robust challenges!
Can I lend my support to the last few posts from Tejwant Singh Ji, Ugsbay Ji and Naryanjot Kaur Ji
I find it remarkable how people come here to proclaim that theirs' is the the only true faith and how they then engage in circular reasoning to justify their beliefs...like Bible prophecy...interesting how these "prophecies" were written after the actual events occurred!
Or trying to prove the integrity of something using the thing to be proved as the source of its own proof....
Then they blatantly ignore the fact that over time, bits have been added, taken away, translated and edited upteen times etc etc....need I go on???
If someone is on a particular path and are happy there, then that's fine. But don't try and sell it as the true way to others .... and if you do, then don't be surprised if you get some robust challenges!
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