Yogism Why Not Yoga Practices?

[ekmusafir_ajnabi]

Re: Why Not Yoga Practices

Jag1t ji,

Appears you have a better grasp of the subject then others. But are you stopping short?

You are indeed right, this is only just the basics. There is far too much confusion/lack of understanding on this subject and I do not wish to make an issue of it. Slowly, as the understanding will increase so shall the ability to make practical use of it. Once we were afraid of lightening, today we have full control over it.

The problem we face today is that like a prisoner going from one jail to another for many Yugas, from one system to another, they have become so immersed in the prison life (thier small mental wells) that they fear change and have become distant from reality. They feel threatened when introduced to a different but complimentary idea. Today they walk tomorrow with the grace and understanding of Gurbani, they shall run. Our Gurus have intended us to merge in the ocean at large and not try to make small partitions in the same ocean.

I must compliment aad002 for work as a moderator. She is at least open to new thoughts and ideas. I feel there is scope for progress.

emusafir_ajnabi

 

[21khalsa13]

Re: Why Not Yoga Practices

waheguru je ka khalsa - waheguru je ke fateh!!

just a quick question to all those who are against yoga

what is saas girass?

a breath control exercise with a mantra, sitting in fixed posture?


i maybe well of the mark (properly am you should see my archery skills) but i feel what the gurus are saying is that anything without NAAM is irellevent

that would include any form of naam jaap if it is only ritual
it would include anything in life - naam gives you direction
it is like NLP (neuro linguistic programming) linguistics that program the mind

program the mind with the right vibration, the correct NAAM and the direct and destination is set - then every activity is a blessing, is a path to god, as god is in everything - EVERYTHING - GOD IS EVERYTHING

without this everything is a waste - even sitting day night repeat anything like a parrot, but if on the other hand you have been guided to yoga try it with full NAAM - if not fine!!
undr hukumi saab ko baar hukum na kooi

we all have our own starting points - all different - all paths on the same destination but may take a journey - don't knock the journey - all journeys have there pro's and con's. learn from each other. ask question brother what have you benefited from yoga? you may find something useful to add to your life or practice and vicaversa boys and girls. learn from each others experience rather than trying to win the point - time for us to evolve from control and dominance chakra level thinking to unconditional loving. (is that yoga thinking opps sorrry)

i feel that in sikhs trying to be so different and unique they often separate themselves to far from reality - but instead it is felt that sikhi holds the key to understand all religions and sciences NAAM - but if we insulate ourselves too far we can't see the wood for the trees -
if understood correctly ek oankar is more powerful and useful than e=mc2
the world has so much to learn from us and we can't stop argue about theology - LISTEN - you will hear god talking to god.
the future is yours open your minds and hearts to thetruth that abides their rather than simply following set (control and dominance) patterns in our 'cultural'
be revolutionary - be radical - be sant siphi. it is a big ask i know but you have bought into this - our guru sahibahaans took a look at the world and saw what needed to be done - connect to NAAM - and they built a whole army for the task. we are still in this postion today. look around the world. it is a mess - the west raping the world, the muslims and their own agenda the poor screaming for the world, the planet in crisis point environmentally, energetically and spiritual - the task is greater than mere semantics.
the answer is grace - all the worlds affairs will correct themselves
and the soliders of grace are too busy trying to save their own souls and hence getting themselves in all types of ego wrangles.
kaar seva to the world people - not just to the community and yourselves who are already getting fat.
kaar seva from the heart to each other share knowledge, love and wisdom
connect to life, spirit and god. be yogis' of the purest purest kind

waheguru je ka khalsa waheguru je ke fateh!!

 

[spnadmin]

Re: Why Not Yoga Practices

All who are interested ji (yikes! how do you say this in Punjabi?)

I may be well of the mark (properly am you should see my archery skills) but i feel what the gurus are saying is that anything without NAAM is irellevent

You may not be off the mark. The metaphor is a good one because it contains two ideas -- the idea of focused practice and the idea of NAAM as all relevant.

Let's not discourage Hardap and others from being part of this discussion because they have rightly presented the perspective of Guruji throughout the discussion -- and have been a little quiet lately. Deliberations about yoga can start with the meaning of the word itself - yoga -- root of the English word for "union" -- Union with??????

So I am going to take a step in this direction -- There is more than one type of yoga. (Not so much Kundalini yoga versus Hatha yoga versus yoga X). We can look at one in more depth to see how and whether the practice of each approach becomes pure ritual, or gets in the way of uniton with Akal Purakh(u), or takes us away from understanding the immanence of Guruji in our immediate lives. Or conversely, assists us on our spiritual journey.

For example, naad yoga. Union through the practice of naad - vibration of seed syllables. Why do this? There are some who practice naad, reciting mantras that name one or another deity, e.g., Lakshmi over and over again as the source of good fortune (money for the most part). It is a no-brainer that Ekmusafir is not talking about this kind of yoga practice.

This one may have to do a little more research on the subject -- have forgotten a lot. Others can take over.

 

[sachchasoda]

Re: Why Not Yoga Practices

Debating on this issue indicates how much importance one is giving to 'MY THINKING'& 'MY EXPEREINCE'& 'MY WAY' & 'ME ME ME' against GURU'S WAY. A discussion under GURMAT VICHAR should be based on what Gurubani says, not what you/me think.

Gurbani clearly tells us -

suixAY jog jugiq qin Byd ]


We do not need to depend on yogi's yoga(any type) practices to aquire yog(ultimate union).

Guru Ji tells us the simple and concrete method- Naam Simran, Complete Surrender, Selfless Seva, Kirtan, Sharing and all that. The stress is on- never forget Waheguru, The Kartapurkh.

iPir cVY idvsu gurbwxI gwvY bhidAw auTidAw hir nwmu iDAwvY ]
jo swis igrwis iDAwey myrw hir hir so gurisKu gurU min BwvY ]

So we should do Naam Simran all the time: While Sitting down, Standing, With every breath and every morsel of food.

Along with this Guru Ji enlighten us about the ill effects as well as uselessness of certain major yoga practices of yogies like controll of breath and Asan:
pwTu piVE Aru bydu bIcwirE invil BuAMgm swDy ]
pMc jnw isau sMgu n CutikE AiDk AhMbuiD bwDy ]1]
ipAwry ien ibiD imlxu n jweI mY kIey krm Anykw ]
hwir pirE suAwmI kY duAwrY dIjY buiD ibbykw ] rhwau ]

jog isD Awsx caurwsIh ey BI kir kir rihAw ]
vfI Awrjw iPir iPir jnmY hir isau sMgu n gihAw ]6]





Satpartap Singh

 

[sachchasoda]

Re: Why Not Yoga Practices

21khalsa13 ji,

"learn from each others experience rather than trying to win the point "

I dont think anybody who is talking about-NO TO YOGA PRACTICES OF YOGIES FOR YOG is trying to win their own point here. All been refering to Gurbani. Please forgive me sir ji, i felt the opposite(pro yoga thinkers are trying to prove their personal view). Since when SIKHS ARE LEARNING FROM EACH OTHERS EXPERIENCE THAT GOES COMPLETELY AGAINST GURMAT? I thought it is Guru Ji's WORD- GURBANI that teaches all of us. We are supposed to talk Gurbani, Contemplate on Gurbani, Do Gurbani Kirtan, Live Gurbani.

Satpartap Singh

 

[spnadmin]

Re: Why Not Yoga Practices

Sikhs, who are members of the Western Khalsa and sometimes referred to as 3HO Sikhs, consistently include kundalini yoga as part of their sadhana. Their practice includes breathing (active and passive), kriyas, and mantra recitation. This they do along with recitation of banis, during the amrit vela. No one is going to suggest that the Western Khalsa is not truly Sikh -- so this is an epxerience that can be understood as Sikh and also distinct.

Gurbani is not forbidding yoga, but rather questions its value without naam, surrender, prayer and meditation. Others are saying--- "Along with naam, with surrender, with prayer and meditation, I use yoga because it adds value to my experience."

(Now the 3HO experience - and let's not shy away from the word, experience, because it is only a word - is not everyone's cup of tea. It is without doubt Sikhi.) And a forum is a place to talk.

 

[sachchasoda]

Re: Why Not Yoga Practices

Respected aad0002 Ji,

3HO sikhs practicing yoga as yogi Bhajan taught them. Have you ever thought why he could not do it in India/Punjab: because people over there know Gurmukhi/Punjabi and they know exactly what Guru Ji wants us to do.

3HO is Bhajanism not Sikhism.

Bhul chuk maaf karni

Satpartap Singh

p.s. his followers also do aarti to Guru Ji's Pictures? surprising. To sit in the sangat a person has to pay- 'maya karan viddyaa baichey'.
They sell literature(paper/cd/dvd) comprising ways to achieve Laxmi(money) and other wordly happiness- Wherease Guru Ji is telling us to not get attached to these things. He was able to exploit people outside India as nobody had any idea what Sikhism is all about. As a yogi, i say he is/was good, no doubts, BUT NOT A TRUE SIKH, as he went against GuruJi's word.

 

[spnadmin]

Re: Why Not Yoga Practices

Most respected sachachasoda ji,

The legacy of Yogi Bhajan has not yet exhausted itself. However controversial he may have been as a human being, he was a Sikh and so are his followers. To say otherwise is to choose to be unaware of facts and history.

3HO is not the path I have chosen for reasons of my own. Yet many of us who are not 3HO Sikhs use resources provided by Yogi's followers (e.g., a major website Sikhnet.com, SikhiWiki, the Daily Hukamanama from Harimandir with an English katha, Gurbani Kirtan libraries, a searchable Siri Guru Granth Sahib, countless seva projects, access to an international membership, and the list is endless). 3HO Sikhs reading this part of the thread are probably amazed to find their legitimacy in question.

Nanaak had no problem discussing a variety of perspectives on God and faith with diverse believers. We can follow his example. When we are the same we invite stagnation.

 

[21khalsa13]

Re: Why Not Yoga Practices

21khalsa13 ji,

"learn from each others experience rather than trying to win the point "

I dont think anybody who is talking about-NO TO YOGA PRACTICES OF YOGIES FOR YOG is trying to win their own point here. All been refering to Gurbani. Please forgive me sir ji, i felt the opposite(pro yoga thinkers are trying to prove their personal view). Since when SIKHS ARE LEARNING FROM EACH OTHERS EXPERIENCE THAT GOES COMPLETELY AGAINST GURMAT? I thought it is Guru Ji's WORD- GURBANI that teaches all of us. We are supposed to talk Gurbani, Contemplate on Gurbani, Do Gurbani Kirtan, Live Gurbani.

Satpartap Singh

so sangaat and vichaar aren't concepts in sikhi

:hmm:

 

[sachchasoda]

Re: Why Not Yoga Practices

21khalsa13 ji,

I never said sangat and vichar aren't the Sikh cncepts. I said 'THAT GOES AGAINST GURMAT' is NOT.

bhul chuk maaf karna

Satpartap Singh

 

[sachchasoda]

Re: Why Not Yoga Practices

Most respected sachachasoda ji,

The legacy of Yogi Bhajan has not yet exhausted itself. However controversial he may have been as a human being, he was a Sikh and so are his followers. To say otherwise is to choose to be unaware of facts and history.

3HO is not the path I have chosen for reasons of my own. Yet many of us who are not 3HO Sikhs use resources provided by Yogi's followers (e.g., a major website Sikhnet.com, SikhiWiki, the Daily Hukamanama from Harimandir with an English katha, Gurbani Kirtan libraries, a searchable Siri Guru Granth Sahib, countless seva projects, access to an international membership, and the list is endless). 3HO Sikhs reading this part of the thread are probably amazed to find their legitimacy in question.

Nanaak had no problem discussing a variety of perspectives on God and faith with diverse believers. We can follow his example. When we are the same we invite stagnation.

Oh yes aad0002 Ji,

I am surprised at you using Dhan Guru Nanak's life as an example and supporting 3HO.
Yogi Bhajan used to earn over $100,000 a year in lecture fees and lived like a king, where on the other side Guru Nanak Dev Ji lived such a simple life. There is no comparison.

I know Yogi Bhajan spent 3 dacades or so to mixup yoga and Sikhi, and successfully brainwashed many brains. To Americans he made it appear like YOGA IS SIKHI, which is not true at all. I am not against anybody following anything.

Just a question for you to think:
I read in one of your posts recently you claim for a Sikh to close 9 doors.

There is a 3HO yoga technique used(breathing and massage technique) by Yogi Bhajan followers(most of them know it really well) that improves s-e-x-u-a-l performance.

How do you tally both?

bhul chuk maaf karna ji

Satpartap Singh

 

[21khalsa13]

Re: Why Not Yoga Practices

but you said sharing of one anothers experiences is anti gurmaat
but isn't that the whole point of sangaat and vichaar

how can I as an individual even begin to understand gurbani - a language which is not well known or understood by my punjabi family or the local gurdwaras - this understanding is held by special people who have experienced these realities not by people who are blindly reciting.

If it is not gurmat to learn from experiences how do i learn??
experience right or wrong can still teach - it is the attitude of the student to learn that is important.

are we sikhs - learning
are not - simplying following??

bul chuk maaf karna veero te bheno

 

[kaur-1]

Re: Why Not Yoga Practices

Debating on this issue indicates how much importance one is giving to 'MY THINKING'& 'MY EXPEREINCE'& 'MY WAY' & 'ME ME ME' against GURU'S WAY. A discussion under GURMAT VICHAR should be based on what Gurubani says, not what you/me think.

Gurbani clearly tells us -

suixAY jog jugiq qin Byd ]


We do not need to depend on yogi's yoga(any type) practices to aquire yog(ultimate union).

Guru Ji tells us the simple and concrete method- Naam Simran, Complete Surrender, Selfless Seva, Kirtan, Sharing and all that. The stress is on- never forget Waheguru, The Kartapurkh.

iPir cVY idvsu gurbwxI gwvY bhidAw auTidAw hir nwmu iDAwvY ]
jo swis igrwis iDAwey myrw hir hir so gurisKu gurU min BwvY ]

So we should do Naam Simran all the time: While Sitting down, Standing, With every breath and every morsel of food.

Along with this Guru Ji enlighten us about the ill effects as well as uselessness of certain major yoga practices of yogies like controll of breath and Asan:
pwTu piVE Aru bydu bIcwirE invil BuAMgm swDy ]
pMc jnw isau sMgu n CutikE AiDk AhMbuiD bwDy ]1]
ipAwry ien ibiD imlxu n jweI mY kIey krm Anykw ]
hwir pirE suAwmI kY duAwrY dIjY buiD ibbykw ] rhwau ]

jog isD Awsx caurwsIh ey BI kir kir rihAw ]
vfI Awrjw iPir iPir jnmY hir isau sMgu n gihAw ]6]





Satpartap Singh

Satpartap Singh ji,

Is it possible for you to start a new thread with a heading called "How to" or "What is" Gurbani Vichaar or any of your choice. Basically explaining how Gurbani vichaar should done and why it is important. Bringing in Gurbani tuks to include vichaar/bichaar, use of our Mind, Bani hai Guru, and other relavant tuks. This is a very important subject in my opinion.

This I am sure will be appreciated by many of the forum members including myself. Thanks again.

 

[spnadmin]

Re: Why Not Yoga Practices

sachchasoda

Too old to think about some of the things you mention here. Just want to be fair to everyone.

 

[sachchasoda]

Re: Why Not Yoga Practices

but you said sharing of one anothers experiences is anti gurmaat
but isn't that the whole point of sangaat and vichaar

how can I as an individual even begin to understand gurbani - a language which is not well known or understood by my punjabi family or the local gurdwaras - this understanding is held by special people who have experienced these realities not by people who are blindly reciting.

If it is not gurmat to learn from experiences how do i learn??
experience right or wrong can still teach - it is the attitude of the student to learn that is important.

are we sikhs - learning
are not - simplying following??

bul chuk maaf karna veero te bheno

21khalsa13 ji,

thanks for manipulating my words.

and thanks for your input as it shows you simply don't want to follow Guru Ji.

Satgur ke bhaane chal- this is what Guru Ji says.


guxvMqI scu pwieAw iqRsnw qij ivkwr ]
gur sbdI mnu rMigAw rsnw pRym ipAwir ]
ibnu siqgur iknY n pwieE kir vyKhu min vIcwir ]
mnmuK mYlu n auqrY ijcru gur sbid n kry ipAwru ]1]
mn myry siqgur kY BwxY clu ]
inj Gir vsih AMimRqu pIvih qw suK lhih mhlu ]1]


siqgur kw Bwxw iciq kry siqguru Awpy ik®pw kryie ]



and my words from previous post, more clarified:

Since when SIKHS ARE LEARNING FROM THAT EXPERIENCE OF EACH OTHER THAT GOES COMPLETELY AGAINST GURMAT? I thought it is Guru Ji's WORD- GURBANI that teaches all of us. We are supposed to talk Gurbani, Contemplate on Gurbani, Do Gurbani Kirtan, Live Gurbani. Think about the ways how to LIVE THE TRUTH MENTIONED IN GURBANI.i hope it is more clear now.

bhul chuk maaf karna ji

Satpartap Singh

 

[sachchasoda]

Re: Why Not Yoga Practices

Satpartap Singh ji,

Is it possible for you to start a new thread with a heading called "How to" or "What is" Gurbani Vichaar or any of your choice. Basically explaining how Gurbani vichaar should done and why it is important. Bringing in Gurbani tuks to include vichaar/bichaar, use of our Mind, Bani hai Guru, and other relavant tuks. This is a very important subject in my opinion.

This I am sure will be appreciated by many of the forum members including myself. Thanks again.

Respected kaur-1 Ji,

No problem in starting a new thread ji. We can discuss this based on Guru Ji's own words. Thanks for realizing the Importance of GURBANI.

Satpartap Singh

 

[sachchasoda]

Re: Why Not Yoga Practices

sachchasoda

Too old to think about some of the things you mention here. Just want to be fair to everyone.

Respected aad0002 Ji,

Age again? No please.
We need to contemplate on things to make ourselves understand the truth. You must have contemplated on Gurbani to make that list in your post under a different thread where you mentioned - closing 9 doors. I am simply suggesting you to think a little further using 3HO phylosophy- IT SIMPLY DOESN'T FIT, does it.

If we want to be fair to all, we must emphasize Gurbani. Being fair is ok, but not at the cost of TRUE SIKH VALUES- GURU JI'S WORD- GURBANI.

bhul chuk maaf karna ji

Satpartap Singh

 

[spnadmin]

Re: Why Not Yoga Practices

Veer ji

Being fair is ok, but not at the cost of TRUE SIKH VALUES- GURU JI'S WORD- GURBANI.

Not sure how this works.

 

[21khalsa13]

Re: Why Not Yoga Practices

Sat shri akaal
aplogies profusely if it may seem i manipulted your words
i didn't understand your reply hence i asked those questions
i can't read the gurbani script you entered (script not read by my pc) (may answer is proberly there)
what exactly is the input i have given which you have made the judgement that i don't follow the guru

bul chuk maaf - tera shoota veer


bul chuk maaf

 

[Randip Singh]

Re: Why Not Yoga Practices

Why Guru Ji says 'NO' to yoga practices:


yoga saadhna and other practices are used to bring mind into a state of peace/calmness. but these effects are not permanent as mind is not 100% at peace. so need to use these methods again and again to bring your mind back into that state.

GURMAT- Dhan Dhan Guru Sahibaan da hukam, if we abide by Guru Ji's Wil, we come under Waheguru's Will, that in turn kills the EGO, which further leads to SANTOKH-> PEACE OF MIND-> ANAND. This state of mind is permanent. you don't need to depend on any breathing or chakra balance exercises to achieve it or improve it or to maintain it- IT IS ALL HAPPENING SAHAJ......

Mind becomes like water- READ

http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/spiritual-articles/15877-writing-on-water.html

Mind is easy to be tilted towards the JeevAtma- READ

http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/spiritual-articles/15874-the-spiritual-pendulum.html


ANOTHER IMPORTANT NOTE:


by using breathing or other chakra and else techniques to do Sadhna: your concentration is on HUMAN BODY AND ITS ENERGY- A TEMPORARY STATE OF BEING. All this withers away with body's death. not everlasting.

But by using these techniques you are creating a bond between mind and body, mind is getting permanently attached to physical body and its energy. Everytime you want to do Sadhna you need to use that bond. So even after physical death the yearning for a body and its energy remain.

Guru Sahib has given us many POINTERS, many many times.


humbly asking for everybody's forgiveness

Sikhism teaches us to face reality and to not escape it.

Yoga makes one in effect escape reality (albeit temporarily), much like an intoxicant.

Yoga also makes your body not very good for combat (for which a Sikh must be ready).

I think this is why Yoga is seen as being not acceptable in Sikh practice.