Hindu Aarti In Gurdwara

[Archived_member2]

Pray Truth for all and say Satsriakal!

Quote ". . . you can see that they do such rituals to GURUJI's shastars and guru granth...IS THAT REASONABLE?? IS THAT JUSTIFIED??"

The Guru says "hukmai andar sabh ko baahar hukam na ko-ay. " SGGS Ang 1
All is within His Command. No one is beyond His Command.


Balbir Singh

 

[petersg]

Dear Sadh Sangat Ji,

WJKK, WJKF

In Singapore, we have many Sikhs and Sindhis coming to the Gurdwara. The Sindhis who sometimes sponsor the event in the Gurdwara will normally culminate the programme with an Aarti which is done the "Hindu" way. So what should we do? Do we stop them?
If we ban the event, the Sindhis will just stop coming to the Gurdwara and there is a wedge driven between the Sikhs and the Sindhis. Is this the Sikhi way? At least now they come to the Gurdwara and there is brotherhood between the Sikhs and the Sindhis.

My opinion only. Best regards,
petersg

 

[roopsidhu]

Dear brothers
Sat sri Akaal
First of all we should try to understand that what the message of gurbani about the aarti is. Sri guru Nanak dev ji's bani says
"Gagan meh thaal ravi chand deepak bane tarika mandal jamnak moti........."
As per Sikh history this bani was recited by guru ji after watching the ritual aarti being performed at Jagannath mandir. This bani in Dhanasari raga is all in praise of the great aarti being performed by the nature (sky being thaal and sun and moon being lamps) The great specialty of the gurbani is that it teaches us to keep away from rituals and to pray for the greatest of all "akaal purkh".

SGGS ang 694 "Nam tero aarti majan murarey,Hark e naam bin jhutey sagal pasarey"
Also tells us that all the rituals are false only lord's name is true. His name is Deepak, his name is flower his name is kesar his name is chandan etc. Hence if you meditate and worship his name that is the best aarti. Gurbani teaches us to find the great lord from within our heart . Gurbani teaches us the shortest way to achieve the lord. Gurbani always teaches us to keep away from the rituals (aadambras) let it be aarti or idol worship. See SGGS ang 695 "uttam deeara nirmal bati, tu hi niranjan kamalapati" Here again its stressed that only the true name of the lord is " uttam deeara" i.e. gurbani message revolves around the main principal of Naam Simran and keeping away from karam kaands. SGGS ang 1350 Kabir ji says " tat tayl naam kee-aa baatee deepak dayh uj-yaaraa jot laa-ay jagdees jagaa-i-aa boojhai boojhanhaaraa . panchay sabad anaahad baajay sangay saringpaanee, kabeer daas tayree aartee keenee nirankaar nirbaanee.
Means: With the oil of knowledge about the essence of reality, and the wick of the Naam, the Name of the Lord, this lamp illuminates. My body have applied the Light of the Lord, and lit this lamp. The Unstuck Melody of the Panch Shabad, the Five Primal Sounds, vibrates and resounds. I dwell with the Lord of the World, Kabeer, Your slave, performs this Aartee, From this shabad its very clear that the aarti sung by the Gurus or the Bhagats was not the one with artificial lamps or plates etc they used the wick of the naam and the oil of the knowledge to perform the aarti. Hence all these rituals are against the prime theme of the gurbani.
But anyhow we can not and we should not condemn others (Hindus) ways of the aarti as well. As per their religious belief that is the right practice and they must follow that. But for those who claim to be Sikhs or the followers of SGGS ji (gurbani) it becomes their duty to follow the instructions and teaching of gurbani to keep away from karam kaands and as per gurbani performing aarti with lamps flowers etc is one of those karam kaands.
Bhul chuk maaf
​

 

[kaur-1]

Dear Sadh Sangat Ji,

WJKK, WJKF

In Singapore, we have many Sikhs and Sindhis coming to the Gurdwara. The Sindhis who sometimes sponsor the event in the Gurdwara will normally culminate the programme with an Aarti which is done the "Hindu" way. So what should we do? Do we stop them?
If we ban the event, the Sindhis will just stop coming to the Gurdwara and there is a wedge driven between the Sikhs and the Sindhis. Is this the Sikhi way? At least now they come to the Gurdwara and there is brotherhood between the Sikhs and the Sindhis.

My opinion only. Best regards,
petersg

Ya! "Hindu" way arti SHOULD NOT BE DONE IN A GURDWARA.

Whats the matter with the sangat in that particular Singaporean Gurdwara?

ARE YOU ALL DRACKAL (cowards).
SO WHAT if the Sindhi's stop coming. WHAT THE HACK IS WRONG WITH YOU LOT!!. Why do you "KOWTOY" to them.

YOU SHOULD BE SAYING TO THEM, please practice in a Gurdwara according to Gurmat and follow the Gurdwara protocols.

If you are a Sikh then I sincerely hope you say something to the gurdwara commity or directly to them. WE ARE NOT COWARDS. What does "SINGH" stand for?

Next you will allowing them to slaughter halal meat in a Gurdwara! Whats the matter with you lot.

 

[vijaydeep Singh]

Gurfateh

There are twa Takhats,where Arti is done and many other Gurudwaras where such Arti is done.But in no Gurudwara,we see Halal been done on Animal.

Anyway some people even doubt the concept of Arti.Das can recomend that three types of views can exist in same Gurudwara.

1.Arti with lamps etc. Das say lamps etc are not much realvant but more show.
2.Arti with music only.
3.No Arti done as all.

Say Hindus put garland to felow Hindus so Sikhs must not stop this.Or say if Hindu use Tabla or Dholak in thier prayers,we should not use it.Everthing can not be seen in anti Hindu way but rather what is as per Gurmat.

 

[Jaszwant]

Well, I think the issue raised is a mere waste of time and rubbish in itself rather than accusing whatever practices as rubbish. Yes, I do agree that its indirectly promoting hatred more than love & compassion. At the end-of-the day, we all have a choice, and choice is to either just ignore and quietly depart or partake in the event or merely observe it in silenceif you just do not wish to be part of it. Afterall, how does it affect your personal beliefs.

At least we are not like the Muslims/Malays in Malaysia where the Muslims are strictly prohibited to undertake or participate in any event that the religious leaders THINK is unislamic or even go to the extent of ruling on how th Muslim should behave, act etc. That is not freedom. That is not being flexible. In the end, whatever we do, our actions will speak for it self before GoD. Its not for us to argue about something, to stop someone fom doing something that they want to do etc, as long as its not a criminal offence, as long as it does not injure someone. We all must just continue to live life, and learn from all arounf for ourselves, to be a better person and to serve all irregardless of race, religion, sex whatever. We are afterall brothers and sisters, Muslim, Hindu, Christian, Buddhist, Animistic, Aethist or Sikh or whatever one wishes to profess.

So let's end this unnecessary argument on what is right and what is wrong, let the age old practices go on in peace, and we as bystanders merely observe it if we think its not right to partcipate in it.

Wishing everyone a Merry X'Mas & a Wonderfull Blessed New Year.

Waheguru ji ka Khalsa Waheguru ji ki Fateh!

 

[beantparmar]

I am a Hindu . But I agree with you. We should not let the teachings of GURU NANAK DEV JI go waste and dilute sikhism. Since we are on the issue I also request you to raise your voice against fradulent conversion of sikhs to christianity in punjab. Also please raise your voice against rampant castism in sikhism particularly amongst the Jat sikhs. Warm regards and Jai Hind

 

[jmanhas]

Sat Sri Akal all,

In my opinion, the argument seems to be more on ritual practise than religion!!! Sikhism is a tolerant religion, and allows 'free will', so long as it does not harm or obstruct another interest.

In the true essence, "aartee" is praising / chanting gods name (acceptable as per Sikh tradition). Depending on the regions, or the gathering -- it may be done alongwith other practises like burning incense sticks, lighting a diya, holding a thali...!

Different people have different needs, evolved beings manage "Dhyan" or associating with the Universal Primordial energies without any external stimulants - while others need music, drumbells, agarbattis, etc.

Slotting traditions as Hindu / Sikh -- and condoning them, fails Sikh practise. As an offshoot of Hinduism, and a religion that is based on the principles or the best practises of older religions - there would be rituals that overlap, of flow into one another.

Many Sikhs come from a 'mixed' clan of people - Hindu/ Sikh parentage. There are many other practises for instance, like burning candles on Diwali day at Indian gurudwaras (more a catholic tradition). Rituals may influence beliefs, but they cannot change the base philosophy!!

Rgrds
Jay

 

[jmanhas]

Sat Sri Akal all,

In my opinion, the argument seems to be more on ritual practise than religion!!! Sikhism is a tolerant religion, and allows 'free will', so long as it does not harm or obstruct another interest.

In the true essence, "aartee" is praising / chanting gods name (acceptable as per Sikh tradition). Depending on the regions, or the gathering -- it may be done alongwith other practises like burning incense sticks, lighting a diya, holding a thali...! Aartees are to invoke the Universal Primordial Energies, to ask for blessings and guidance.

Different people have different needs, evolved beings manage "Dhyan" or associating with the Universal Primordial energies without any external stimulants - while others need music, drumbells, agarbattis, etc.

Slotting traditions as Hindu / Sikh -- and condoning them, fails Sikh practise. As an offshoot of Hinduism, and a religion that is based on the principles or the best practises of older religions - there would be rituals that overlap, of flow into one another.

Many Sikhs come from a 'mixed' clan of people - Hindu/ Sikh parentage. There are many other practises for instance, like burning candles on Diwali day at Indian gurudwaras (more a catholic tradition). Rituals may influence beliefs, but they cannot change the base philosophy!!

Rgrds
Jay

 

[beantparmar]

I agree with Mr Manhas. This is a very balanced veiw. Rituals are only external attributes of religions. At a deeper level all religions are basically same

 

[BhagatSingh]

which is why sikhi doesnt have rituals so ppl can concentrate on naam. BTW sikhism is not a offshoot of hinduism.

 

[Beeba]

I absolutely do not agree or support the views of Balbir Singh Ji or Vijaydeep Singh Ji.

These things ought to be nipped in the bud, or they will give rise to fuller problems. Tommorow people may even start doing Havan.
This is exactly what is happening now, with people taking a swip at the Thaali and then putting it to their face,

I want to bring into light something that a lot of people do not know about. In the SGGS on page 150,
Guru Nanak Dev Ji has clearly stated, "vut(h)ai ghaahu charehi nith surehee saa dhhan dhehee vilovai || thith ghie hom jag sadh poojaa paeiai kaaraj sohai ||" This translates (by Manmohan Singh), "When it rains the cow ever graze grass and the women churn the curd of their milk. By putting that clarified butter, havan, sacred feasts and worships are ever performed and other ceremonies are adorned." This proves that by performing havan, "kaaraj sidh hunde han". There are many more quotes in the SGGS that respect Havan and encourage it. Then why shouldn’t we?

What do you guys think? who is going to disagree with SGGS?
-Beeba

 

[vinod]

I think the point raised is about Keshgarh Sahib. I would be free to presume that it would be under the contol of SGPC. If it being so ,let SGC loook into it. Why don't you send your petition to them.If the management is different thae you may put across a word of objection.
Both Gurudwaras and temples are the places that remind us of heavinly presence of Divine, that is all.There is nothing more than this.
But I thought tat sikhs are religiously tolerant.
If it is against your faith I have seen Gurudwars all lit with candle lights on the occassions of many guru parva. What is so wrong in this. you can express your state of joy. That is the only spirit.

 

[sarabjit]

dear respectable members
loving sat sri akal
whai i feel is that we should not criticise any religion in these columns
it will not take us any where
all religions are good & if you start discussing their rituals then you can find
many points which may be not convincing to your mind but when you start
discussing these with their leaders they will convince you scientifically .even people may start criticising our religion as so many friends have mentioned in their views about using airconditoning for guru granth sahibs perfumes in harmandir sahib, using expensive rumalas & golden jewellery etc .if some body finds happiness doing all this then what is the harm.sky is not going to fall. instead of criticising others it will be better if we look towards ourselves for oue weaknesses like drinking liquers , taking drugs , doing cheating in business, destoying girl foetus etc. there are so many.

god is the thought of conviction only & faith.rituals just increase your faith & self confidence 7 will power.
if you are good to your society , your nation,helping poor,honest to your job
and happy & satisfied in your daily life then god is with you
orthodoxy will not take us anywhere
with warm regards to all the members
sarabjit ingh

 

[BhagatSingh]

I absolutely do not agree or support the views of Balbir Singh Ji or Vijaydeep Singh Ji.

These things ought to be nipped in the bud, or they will give rise to fuller problems. Tommorow people may even start doing Havan.
This is exactly what is happening now, with people taking a swip at the Thaali and then putting it to their face,

I want to bring into light something that a lot of people do not know about. In the SGGS on page 150,
Guru Nanak Dev Ji has clearly stated, "vut(h)ai ghaahu charehi nith surehee saa dhhan dhehee vilovai || thith ghie hom jag sadh poojaa paeiai kaaraj sohai ||" This translates (by Manmohan Singh), "When it rains the cow ever graze grass and the women churn the curd of their milk. By putting that clarified butter, havan, sacred feasts and worships are ever performed and other ceremonies are adorned." This proves that by performing havan, "kaaraj sidh hunde han". There are many more quotes in the SGGS that respect Havan and encourage it. Then why shouldn’t we?

What do you guys think? who is going to disagree with SGGS?
-Beeba

can u provide the whole stanza? thanks

 

[deepshoker]

respected balbir singh ji,
it is very sorry feelings that you call yourself sewadar and dont excactly follow bani and preaching of all gurus by making ur explanation with evidence from what was happening in past does not prove wrong doings correct either it is aarti , doin dhoops to pictures , placing nariyal , placing water during akhand path and drinking as amrit etc etc ... these are manmats and will remain inspite of giving thousands of example from past.

 

[LikkleMissHindu]

gs_chana eventhough you aren't being offensive to Hindu's I myself am a Hindu and do find the way you have expressed your feelings offensive. For a believer of faith to minimalise another faith or even its rituals I find offensive.

Balbir Singh I have the upmost respect for your words. Hindu or Sikh I understand historically we fought together and in my opinion we share one thing in common and that is Hindustan.

Going back to the original post here is a logical explaination of why Hindu's perform a ritual such as arti this is soemthing I found very enlightening.

May I also add religions have progressed from one another and the closest linked ones are Buddhism, Hinduism and Sikhism. You should never dismiss your guru's teaching but never dismiss what your religion may have gained from another either. I may be off the point here if so I apoloigise in advance. I hope you enjoy my explaination as follows.

Having worshipped the Lord with love, lit by the lamp we see the beauty of the Lord in all his glory. The singing, clapping is associated with the joy that accompanies the vision of the Lord. (The Lord can be your own perception of spiritualism).

Aarti being performed with Camphor has a spiritual significance. Camphor burns itself out completely without leaving a trace. Camphor represents our Vasanas, unmanifest desires. So also if we were to take refuge in the Lord, obtain knowledge, these desires will get burnt out. Although the camphor burns itself out, it emits a nice perfume. On a human plane it means that we should sacrifice ourselves to serve society, in the process spread the perfume of love and happiness to all. (Something gs_chana's post doesn't do)



We close our eyes while performing the Aarti as if to look within. The Self or Atman is within us. . Self realization can be achieved by knowing thyself, with the flame of knowledge. At the end of the aarti we place the hands over the flame and touch our eyes and top of the head. It means that may the light that illumined the Lord light up my vision, may my thoughts be pure and beautiful.


With the Aarti comes the flame which signifies light. There can be light in our lives only if we have knowledge. In an era of darkness there would be ignorance, we would be perpetually running to fulfill our vasanas resulting in unhappiness and stress all around.



I hope as a Hindu that has clarified the aarti from our, sorry my perspective. Cannot speak for all HIndu's.

 

[Arvind]

Above is a nice explanation of Aarti. But the question is: How many of our Hindu brothers and sisters really understand this concept and abide by this, while performing Aarti. when something is done without an understanding, it becomes a ritual... useless ritual. I am talking this in the same note in which our sikh brothers and sisters do "matha tek" in gurudwara without realizing its significance. That again makes the "matha tek" look like a useless ritual. Important is to understand why we are doing something, and how it should be done in a proper way.

Regards, Arvind.

 

[GURVINDER]

Don;t Point Finger On Any Religion What Are Your Views About The Gurbani Recited Daily In The Gurudwaras And People Not Even Try To Listen Carefully See There Are Traditions Which They Follow U R Right That They R Using Thaal And Divaa And Do Aarti But Thise Aarti Is Not Same As Hindu Religion Aarti It Is Misconception The Aarti They Do Is Ofor One Yniversal God

 

[gs_chana]

gs_chana eventhough you aren't being offensive to Hindu's I myself am a Hindu and do find the way you have expressed your feelings offensive. For a believer of faith to minimalise another faith or even its rituals I find offensive.

Balbir Singh I have the upmost respect for your words. Hindu or Sikh I understand historically we fought together and in my opinion we share one thing in common and that is Hindustan.

Going back to the original post here is a logical explaination of why Hindu's perform a ritual such as arti this is soemthing I found very enlightening.

May I also add religions have progressed from one another and the closest linked ones are Buddhism, Hinduism and Sikhism. You should never dismiss your guru's teaching but never dismiss what your religion may have gained from another either. I may be off the point here if so I apoloigise in advance. I hope you enjoy my explaination as follows.

Having worshipped the Lord with love, lit by the lamp we see the beauty of the Lord in all his glory. The singing, clapping is associated with the joy that accompanies the vision of the Lord. (The Lord can be your own perception of spiritualism).

Aarti being performed with Camphor has a spiritual significance. Camphor burns itself out completely without leaving a trace. Camphor represents our Vasanas, unmanifest desires. So also if we were to take refuge in the Lord, obtain knowledge, these desires will get burnt out. Although the camphor burns itself out, it emits a nice perfume. On a human plane it means that we should sacrifice ourselves to serve society, in the process spread the perfume of love and happiness to all. (Something gs_chana's post doesn't do)



We close our eyes while performing the Aarti as if to look within. The Self or Atman is within us. . Self realization can be achieved by knowing thyself, with the flame of knowledge. At the end of the aarti we place the hands over the flame and touch our eyes and top of the head. It means that may the light that illumined the Lord light up my vision, may my thoughts be pure and beautiful.


With the Aarti comes the flame which signifies light. There can be light in our lives only if we have knowledge. In an era of darkness there would be ignorance, we would be perpetually running to fulfill our vasanas resulting in unhappiness and stress all around.



I hope as a Hindu that has clarified the aarti from our, sorry my perspective. Cannot speak for all HIndu's.

HI there,

Well I may have written the article in a little offensive way so I apologise, but I still do not accept your view on what Aarti is about. Not in a negative way, but rather I think applying it logically with a better understanding of what GOD is, you will realise how and why such worldy matters (now this includes idol worship, fasting, namaz (islamic prayers), staying virgin in a convent, etc as well as the issue here about Aarti) ARE AIMLESS PRACTICES.

I will refrain from using USELESS, but rather to get you thinking I will use AIMLESS PRACTICES. God is not a visible being, is not a being you can just talk to with the physical. "LikkleMissHindu" you say that when doing aarti you take contemplation on the within, i.e. talk to GOD from within, then as far as I am concerned YOU ARE ABSOLUTLY RIGHT. The only way in which GOD can be communicated with is the Mind, hence meditation. Sikhi does not offer prayer to GOD!! WHERE HAS IT EVER DONE SO, GIVE ME A QUOTE IN THE GURU GRANTH SAHIB THAT SAYS WE ACTUALLY HAVE TO SING OUT LOUD TO GOD!

Anyway back to the matter at hand, LikkleMissHindu should realise that I have nothing against Hinduism, infact Hindu texts teach the same message of contemplation on God rather than fictionalised stories made by man on how to communicate with God. LikkleMissHindu please go give me some quotes from books such as the Vedas, Shastras, Simrities, etc that believe in such practices as you hindus follow daily.

Learn about GOD furthermore LikkleMissHindu from your text books, and you shall realise how to be a true Hindu. Remember, all the demi-gods (ram, krishna, etc) all preached about GOD, so do likewise and you will realise what I mean by how such acts are outdated and ignorant; simply because they are not compatable with a logical belief of GOD.

Hope that makes sense, probably doesn't, but hey, thats life. :}{}{}:

Gurdip Singh Chana