Islam Sikh-Muslim Marriages

[bunchofprats]

Why thehell are Uk sikhs so insistent on bashing muslims? I agree with chicken1, no religion is better than another- this is one of the most basic teachings of Sikhi so why can't a large majority understand this and move on?

Big deal, a person of a Sikh background has married someone of another faith. Get out a bit more and you'll realise this happens all the time and Sikh's are not alone. It happens in all communities and with the world getting smaller it's not going to decrease.

Concentrate on the actual practising Sikhs who have been forcefully converted.....well what do u know I bet there's none!

 

[daggeroftruth]

peace to seekers of peace, i cnt understand why u ppl think ur so godly and yet u believe everything happens because of this that nad the other. Dnt u believe all marriages are prefixed by the Lord God? by His hukam? like everything else is pre-destined?. wake up!! and repent to the Lord ik onkar Allah in arabic means ik onkar. I am muslim married to a lady who is from sikh bakground and i did not marry her because of any worldly reason i married her because Allah had pre-planned it all for us and we both love oneanother and respect the families from both sides although the families are as blind as u lot are, they believe all happens by the will of God about everything else but when it comes to their son/daughter marries someone from other religious they say its his/her fault..lool. why couldnt that be from God too?. mad people. Alhumdulilla=all prays to God almighty He gave us three beautiful children 2 sons and a daughter and both boys are becomming islamic scholars and i hope they will marry from their maternal side too Inshallah and we r planning to make our daughter to become islamic teacher when she grows up too and marry from her maternal side too or what Allah will for them all. wakey! wakey! u so called godly ppl. peace peace peace.

 

[kds1980]

peace to seekers of peace, i cnt understand why u ppl think ur so godly and yet u believe everything happens because of this that nad the other. Dnt u believe all marriages are prefixed by the Lord God? by His hukam? like everything else is pre-destined?. wake up!! and repent to the Lord ik onkar Allah in arabic means ik onkar. I am muslim married to a lady who is from sikh bakground and i did not marry her because of any worldly reason i married her because Allah had pre-planned it all for us and we both love oneanother and respect the families from both sides although the families are as blind as u lot are, they believe all happens by the will of God about everything else but when it comes to their son/daughter marries someone from other religious they say its his/her fault..lool. why couldnt that be from God too?. mad people. Alhumdulilla=all prays to God almighty He gave us three beautiful children 2 sons and a daughter and both boys are becomming islamic scholars and i hope they will marry from their maternal side too Inshallah and we r planning to make our daughter to become islamic teacher when she grows up too and marry from her maternal side too or what Allah will for them all. wakey! wakey! u so called godly ppl. peace peace peace.

Will you accept if your daughter marries a hindu,sikh or christian man.Muslims themselves kill their daughters if they marry outside religion and you are preaching us tolerance , great.Btw is your wife still a sikh or she converted to islam.

 

[drkhalsa]

peace to seekers of peace, i cnt understand why u ppl think ur so godly and yet u believe everything happens because of this that nad the other. Dnt u believe all marriages are prefixed by the Lord God? by His hukam? like everything else is pre-destined?. wake up!! and repent to the Lord ik onkar Allah in arabic means ik onkar. I am muslim married to a lady who is from sikh bakground and i did not marry her because of any worldly reason i married her because Allah had pre-planned it all for us and we both love oneanother and respect the families from both sides although the families are as blind as u lot are, they believe all happens by the will of God about everything else but when it comes to their son/daughter marries someone from other religious they say its his/her fault..lool. why couldnt that be from God too?. mad people. Alhumdulilla=all prays to God almighty He gave us three beautiful children 2 sons and a daughter and both boys are becomming islamic scholars and i hope they will marry from their maternal side too Inshallah and we r planning to make our daughter to become islamic teacher when she grows up too and marry from her maternal side too or what Allah will for them all. wakey! wakey! u so called godly ppl. peace peace peace.

PEACE !

Thanks for your inspirimg post!

I m gona follow you Alhumdulilla

I am gona marry 4 muslim girls and then have have atleat 20 sons Inshallah and all will be sikh scholars and and follow my pursuit and marry muslim girls .

Let the Peace prevail!

Thanks

Jatinder Singh

 

[Nadeem]

“There is no lustral water like unto knowledge.” Bhagavad Gîtâ

The purity of knowledge destroys all ignorance at its root. Sikh-Muslim marriages, like Sikh-Hindu marriages or Muslim-Hindu marriages are 'anathema' to some members of each religion. Some Muslims do not approve of them, some Hindus do not approve of them and some Sikhs also. But what does this disapproval mean? The fear of losing Sikh values, or Muslims values or Hindu values? Well, as many great teachers would say, fear is a very negative thing and can only produce error.

As a Muslim who contributes to this Forum I am accustomed to a minority who find it implausible that cross-faith marriages could work. The argument is that in such marriages the 'purity' of certain religious values get diluted or destroyed. However, in my experience such marriages can and do produce a great respect for each faith. Alot depends on how you view the universal aspects of your own religion. As far as I am aware the universal brotherhood of mankind is advocated by all three faiths. Given that this is true, it is hard to understand what problem could be caused by such marriages (unless of course they are undertaken for non-religious reasons). The great Guru's of Sikhism - those who realized God as the foundation of all love and all faith - did not discriminate against any faith since their message was inclusive. I agree with the earlier posting that suggested that we live in a 'global world' where the differences between faiths is giving way to their similarities. We each have a duty to emphasize the similarities between faiths rather than their superficial differences. God is One, Mankind is One and since this is our belief, there can be no room for partisan views. If we insist that religious people adopt a rigid attitude to such questions then we only have ourselves to blame since God Himself is way beyond such narrow-mindedness.

 

[dalsingh]

“There is no lustral water like unto knowledge.” Bhagavad Gîtâ

The purity of knowledge destroys all ignorance at its root. Sikh-Muslim marriages, like Sikh-Hindu marriages or Muslim-Hindu marriages are 'anathema' to some members of each religion. Some Muslims do not approve of them, some Hindus do not approve of them and some Sikhs also. But what does this disapproval mean? The fear of losing Sikh values, or Muslims values or Hindu values? Well, as many great teachers would say, fear is a very negative thing and can only produce error.

As a Muslim who contributes to this Forum I am accustomed to a minority who find it implausible that cross-faith marriages could work. The argument is that in such marriages the 'purity' of certain religious values get diluted or destroyed. However, in my experience such marriages can and do produce a great respect for each faith. Alot depends on how you view the universal aspects of your own religion. As far as I am aware the universal brotherhood of mankind is advocated by all three faiths. Given that this is true, it is hard to understand what problem could be caused by such marriages (unless of course they are undertaken for non-religious reasons). The great Guru's of Sikhism - those who realized God as the foundation of all love and all faith - did not discriminate against any faith since their message was inclusive. I agree with the earlier posting that suggested that we live in a 'global world' where the differences between faiths is giving way to their similarities. We each have a duty to emphasize the similarities between faiths rather than their superficial differences. God is One, Mankind is One and since this is our belief, there can be no room for partisan views. If we insist that religious people adopt a rigid attitude to such questions then we only have ourselves to blame since God Himself is way beyond such narrow-mindedness.

Please take some time to explain why a Muslim women marrying a Sikh is forbidden by the Quran? Also why Islamic law sanctions murder for Islamic people who have converted to other faiths Nadeem.

 

[Nadeem]

Dear Dalsingh Ji,

Sat Sri Akal,

Your last comment [above] was: `Please take some time to explain why a Muslim women marrying a Sikh is forbidden by the Quran? Also why Islamic law sanctions murder for Islamic people who have converted to other faiths Nadeem'


Before answering your question, please kindly furnish me with the Quranic evidence against which your statement stands. I take it that you are aware that the Quran was written before the Sikh Dharma was manifested in the world and that you nevertheless wish me to take your request as sincere? The last thing I wish is to do is embarrass a Sikh for possessing insufficient knowledge of a subject on which he or she is willing to make a public statement.

Respectfully,

Nadeem

 

[drkhalsa]

Dal singh ji and Nadeem ji

Sorry for interupting but I must say as I have seen both of you are sincere and responsible posters on SPN and II really like reading Post of both of you
Please dont create confusion in haste . I think Dalsingh is refering to Shariah Law when he was making statement and not Holy Quran

Please carry on disscusion


Jatinder Singh

 

[Nadeem]

Dr. Khalsa,

Thank you for your kind comment : "I think Dalsingh is refering to Shariah Law when he was making statement and not Holy Quran."

But if you re-read Dalsingh's posting he does mention the Quran and not the Shariah in relation to Sikh-Muslim marriages [ He writes :"Please take some time to explain why a Muslim women marrying a Sikh is forbidden by the Quran?"].

There is no intention whatsoever to create any confusion but simply to clarify what exactly is being asked and on what basis.

Respectfully,


Nadeem

 

[drkhalsa]

But if you re-read Dalsingh's posting he does mention the Quran and not the Shariah in relation to Sikh-Muslim marriages [ He writes :"Please take some time to explain why a Muslim women marrying a Sikh is forbidden by the Quran?"] .

Dear Nadeem

you are very right ! he never mention the Shariah but actually many people outside Islam are not aware of Shariah so they take both to be same that is Holy Quran and shariah

And i know you are not here to create confusion but bring more clearity .I was just trying to aviod heated disscusion bteween you two thats it

Thanks

Jatinder Singh

 

[kds1980]

Before answering your question, please kindly furnish me with the Quranic evidence against which your statement stands. I take it that you are aware that the Quran was written before the Sikh Dharma was manifested in the world and that you nevertheless wish me to take your request as sincere? The last thing I wish is to do is embarrass a Sikh for possessing insufficient knowledge of a subject on which he or she is willing to make a public statement.

Interfaith Marriage in Islam

Muslim Woman and Non-Muslim Man

Under no conditions is a Muslim woman permitted to marry anyone but a Muslim man. The same verse cited above (2:221) mentions, "Nor marry your girls to unbelievers until they believe. A man slave who believes is better than an unbeliever...." No exception is given for women to marry Jews and Christians, so the law stands that she may only marry a believing (Muslim) man. As head of the household, the husband provides leadership for the family. A Muslim woman does not follow the leadership of someone who does not share her faith and values.

 

[Nadeem]

Dear kds1980,

Thank you for the Quranic references. As you can see for yourself in plain English, the Quran expressly stipulates that the marriage to "unbelievers" is prohibited. As the Sikhs are not among the Mushrikin or "polytheists" (Sikh Dharma strictly rejecting polytheism) this verse is not applicable to Sikh-Muslim marriages. Many thanks for the quote but your subsequent misinterpretation of "believers" to mean 'Muslims only' is directly contrary to the Quranic stipulation.


Respectfully,


Nadeem

 

[kds1980]

Dear kds1980,

Thank you for the Quranic references. As you can see for yourself in plain English, the Quran expressly stipulates that the marriage to "unbelievers" is prohibited. As the Sikhs are not among the Mushrikin or "polytheists" (Sikh Dharma strictly rejecting polytheism) this verse is not applicable to Sikh-Muslim marriages. Many thanks for the quote but your subsequent misinterpretation of "believers" to mean 'Muslims only' is directly contrary to the Quranic stipulation.


Respectfully,


Nadeem

Dear nadeem

religious texts could be interpreted in many ways but i don't think 99.99% of practising muslims will agree with your interpretation.for majority of muslims beleiver clearly means a muslim.

 

[dalsingh]

Dr. Khalsa,

Thank you for your kind comment : "I think Dalsingh is refering to Shariah Law when he was making statement and not Holy Quran."

But if you re-read Dalsingh's posting he does mention the Quran and not the Shariah in relation to Sikh-Muslim marriages [ He writes :"Please take some time to explain why a Muslim women marrying a Sikh is forbidden by the Quran?"].

There is no intention whatsoever to create any confusion but simply to clarify what exactly is being asked and on what basis.

Respectfully,


Nadeem

I live in an area with a prominently Muslim population. Whilst I have read some hadiths and translations of Quranic verses, I don't claim to be an expert on Islam. In addition to the former I have had discussions with many people professing to be practising Muslims. I apologise if I have confused Shariah and Quranic instructions, I was under the impression that Shariah stems from the Quran at least partially. Maybe you can shed some light on the truth in this area.

Time and time again I have heard it been said that Islam forbids women marrying nonbelievers and that as Mohamad claimed to be the seal of the prophets, after which God will send no more messengers (I think this is a fundamental Islamic belief), this make Sikhism a "man made faith" to the vast majority of Muslims.

I still respectfully ask you to answer the original questions posed for clarity:

(1) Does orthodox Islam allow for a Muslim female to marry a nonMuslim such as a Sikh or say someone from the Bahai faith.

(2) Does Islam condone the murder of people who have converted outside of the faith?


See this as an exercise in information sharing.

 

[Nadeem]

Dear Kds1980 & Dalsingh,

Many Thanks for the postings.

In his last posting kds1980 writes: " religious texts could be interpreted in many ways". I agree. If you identify "religious texts" with revealed Scripture like the Quran then the extraction of meanings are diverse and not dependent on "99% of Muslims" (which in any case is an exaggeration). Even if it is true that 99% of Muslims could agree on a particular error, the 1% who did not could still be in the right. I don't think that is of any importance to our discussion. The issue is about how we understand the word 'Mushrik' or 'Polytheist' since Sikhs, like Muslims, are monotheists (i.e they proclaim a belief in one God).

Dalsingh writes: "Sikhism a "man made faith" to the vast majority of Muslims". Scriptural references to monotheism are not to be confused with "what people think". No one can adequately account for "what people think" - whether they think at all or not. What is of importance is what the Quran says, not "what people think" because people could just as easily fall into unintentional error. As a Muslim who has studied the Quran for many years I do not consider Sikhism "man made" and neither do many of my Muslims friends and associates.

In respect of your two questions:

1) Islam would permit a Muslim woman to marry a believer (one who professes belief in One God) but not a disbeliever (polytheist). As for Bahaism, which claims that all revelations are 'relative' truths in a progression (unlike Sikhism), that could not be acceptable in Islam.

2) No established religion can condone murder; the laws on apostasy in Islam vary according to authority.

I hope this has answered your questions.

 

[dalsingh]

Dear Kds1980 & Dalsingh,

Many Thanks for the postings.

In his last posting kds1980 writes: " religious texts could be interpreted in many ways". I agree. If you identify "religious texts" with revealed Scripture like the Quran then the extraction of meanings are diverse and not dependent on "99% of Muslims" (which in any case is an exaggeration). Even if it is true that 99% of Muslims could agree on a particular error, the 1% who did not could still be in the right. I don't think that is of any importance to our discussion. The issue is about how we understand the word 'Mushrik' or 'Polytheist' since Sikhs, like Muslims, are monotheists (i.e they proclaim a belief in one God).

Dalsingh writes: "Sikhism a "man made faith" to the vast majority of Muslims". Scriptural references to monotheism are not to be confused with "what people think". No one can adequately account for "what people think" - whether they think at all or not. What is of importance is what the Quran says, not "what people think" because people could just as easily fall into unintentional error. As a Muslim who has studied the Quran for many years I do not consider Sikhism "man made" and neither do many of my Muslims friends and associates.

In respect of your two questions:

1) Islam would permit a Muslim woman to marry a believer (one who professes belief in One God) but not a disbeliever (polytheist). As for Bahaism, which claims that all revelations are 'relative' truths in a progression (unlike Sikhism), that could not be acceptable in Islam.

2) No established religion can condone murder; the laws on apostasy in Islam vary according to authority.

I hope this has answered your questions.

I respect your views but I don't think that the vast majority of Muslims would share your opinion. Although you have rightly pointed out that they could all possibly be wrong.

If you will I have a few other areas I think you could further inform me upon.


Firstly is the doctrine that Mohammad is the seal of the prophets and the last to be sent by God truly a foundation belief of Islam? If so I can't see how they would accommodate Sikhism as a legitimate belief. Can you elaborate on that point.

Also you said "No established religion can condone murder; the laws on apostasy in Islam vary according to authority."

I disagree, for instance the stoning of adulterers was sanctioned by Jewish society and it was Christ who made a famous dramatic stand against this. This practise is still prevalent in certain parts of the mid-east even today.

I am informed that the penalty for apostasy from Islam was death by a number of people who wouldn't want to lie about it. But your statement seems otherwise. As a scholar of Islam yourself please let me know why it has become accepted belief that this is so? Are you saying the vast majority of Muslims are ignorant of the tenants of their own faith?

Also I find it strange that Bahai's are considered to be nonbelievers where Sikhs are. Sikhism has some things in common with Islam for sure (i.e. monotheism) but there is much divergence. Halal + Jhatka, Kesh, not subscribing to circumcism, belief in reincarnation and not judgement day. Also Sikhism is pretty much disconnected from the Semitic line of prophets such as Moses, Abraham etc. whereas these play a large part in the cosmology of mideastern faiths (Christian, Islam, Judaism)...so Sikhism is pretty much disconnected from such "kateebi" faiths. The fact that Sikhism doesn't subscribe to core beliefs of the semitic faiths such as Adam and Eve etc. makes it difficult in my eyes to see how they would be considered fellow believers. I would have thought that Sikhism would be placed under the {censored} label generally, although I know exceptions have been made to this (i.e. by Mullah Omar in Afghanistan).

Can you also tell me whether you subscribe to Sunni, Shia or some other variation of Islam so I can understand your perspective fully.

 

[Nadeem]

Dear Dalsingh,

Thank you for the last post.

You have asked a number of additional questions that are not directly related to the theme of Sikh-Muslim Marriages.

I suggest that you start a new thread in another section (maybe one that is related to interfaith dialogue) where I will be happy to respond.


Respectfully,

Nadeem

 

[BhagatSingh]

Then we should not be doing them : )

 

[lalihayer]

It is incredibly sad to see that most sikhs cannot even have calm rational discussions with muslims as prejudices get in the way. Firstly we are not anyone to judge, if you do judge people, don't judge them by what they are but rather who they are. Secondly, everyone is allowed an opinion whether they be muslim, sikh, jatt or whatever and nobody's opinion or say is un valid. Thirdly, from what i observe religious intolerance is on the rapid increase. If we wish to live in a more peaceful environment we have to set our differences aside and work together to achieve a more peaceful society.
Being born into a religious sikh family, i understand arguements about forceful conversions by muslim men, etc. My family are pretty intolerant too about muslims, something i ashamed to admit because i wish they would be more open minded and loving rather than like everybody else in this community. But what i have seen, is that while things like this do happen, not every muslim is the same, and not every muslim is an extremist. There are extremists in every religion but yet the majority of us are not regardless of what religion we come from. As i have grown up and met different people from different religions, cultures i have grown to respect each and everyone with an open mind. I do not condone extremist behaviour, and i am not "converting" to islam because of my open mindedness. Something which im sure many of you will jump to believe simply because it always has to be one extreme or the other, either you're against muslim and "sikh" or you're not and you're "muslim".
I often point out things like this to my parents, and as expected they get angry and say i dont know any better. Fair enough but then i say why be racist? you wouldnt want anybody to be racist to yourselves, and after all "what goes around comes around". They say oh the koran isnt bad but its the people who are corrupt. The people twist the religion and manipulate it, but isn't that the case with many people from other religions? And whilst they annouce they aren't against the teachings from the koran they are so intolerant and prejudiced against every muslim person. So to me this doesn't add up.
Because of hypocrisy and corruption and the idea that one religion is better than another i don't follow a religion i have chosen to be spiritual and follow a path that declares every path to be right (as they all lead to the divine) and not one of us better than another. In this way i maintain my respect for others and their beliefs.
I am in love with a muslim man, a fairly liberal muslim who doesn't have anything against my beliefs or my familys. He has not asked me to convert, in fact he has said that he wouldnt want me to, because i would not be doing it from my heart and i agree. He wants to come to my house with his family, with all respect and ask for my hand and explain that i will not be converting and that he wants me and my parents to have that connection even after marriage, as family ties are important to both of us. Now many of you will think perhaps this man has a hidden agenda or hes corrupting me, whatever it is, but this is not the case. If my parents do not agree and after meeting his family and getting to know they decide they don't want me to marry him he will walk away so that my parents don't get hurt if we married without their consent. Giving so much consideration for the way my family feel and how i feel this is not the agenda of some fanatical muslim who is forcefully converting me.
For those of you who will disagree with me on his agenda, that is fine you are welcome to your opinions but remember that if we want this world to be a more peaceful place we need to change things, become less religiously intolerant and ignorant. Because what goes around comes around, we dish out the hatred its only fair to get it back.

Please stop to think that in UK why only sikh girls are finding suitable muslim boys, why not other ways around?
Reason is they keep their girls in, hidden like objects and marry them to their cousins as soon as they starting to show a little independence.
Other reason is that a muslim man is allowed to marry a non-muslim woman, but marriage of muslim woman to non muslim man is not permitted. Even Mohammad has a non muslim wife, Safiyah. Your 'liberal' husband is still following his religion. He is playing this game beacause he is sure that your future generation will be muslim anyway. Even if he lie or make false promises, he will be still following his holy book.
And world 'liberal muslim' does not exist. It is muslim or non muslim.
Also ask your 'liberal' muslim boyfriend, if he will allow kids to be raised as sikh, hindu or other non muslims.

 

[lalihayer]

peace to seekers of peace, i cnt understand why u ppl think ur so godly and yet u believe everything happens because of this that nad the other. Dnt u believe all marriages are prefixed by the Lord God? by His hukam? like everything else is pre-destined?. wake up!! and repent to the Lord ik onkar Allah in arabic means ik onkar. I am muslim married to a lady who is from sikh bakground and i did not marry her because of any worldly reason i married her because Allah had pre-planned it all for us and we both love oneanother and respect the families from both sides although the families are as blind as u lot are, they believe all happens by the will of God about everything else but when it comes to their son/daughter marries someone from other religious they say its his/her fault..lool. why couldnt that be from God too?. mad people. Alhumdulilla=all prays to God almighty He gave us three beautiful children 2 sons and a daughter and both boys are becomming islamic scholars and i hope they will marry from their maternal side too Inshallah and we r planning to make our daughter to become islamic teacher when she grows up too and marry from her maternal side too or what Allah will for them all. wakey! wakey! u so called godly ppl. peace peace peace.

Yes, everything happens with Hukam, but my muslim brother, you are talking sarcastically. Would you obey His Hukam if your daughter marry a non muslim and denounce Islam?
Also you mentioned you made your sons Islamic scholars. Here is point to think. Most of families in UK are working hard to make a living and your kids are choosing 'Islamic studies' as a career.

Edited